So this post came across a little strongly against aspies. Maybe just a little. I was very careful not to advocate any sort of violence against aspies, but still...
It's not that I dislike aspies. I actually really like them for their loyalty and all of their other good traits. If it seems like I'm down on aspies, it's only because I'm jealous of their superior social position. The truth is that if the aspies asked me to join their club, i would say yes in a heartbeat. I'm like Lindsay Lohan's character in Mean Girls and the aspies are the cool crowd. I'll talk trash and pretend I'm better, but if I got invited to one of their parties I would stay up all night deciding what to wear. (Ah, Molly Ringwald... interested in being a sociopath spokesperson?)
Sometimes I even claim to be an aspie myself. Who wouldn't? If for nothing else, for the aspie pride t-shirts! I mean, I have some of the signs: inability to pick up social cues, weak sense of empathy, inability to conform to social norms. All I would have to do is tone down the charm. If I can pass amongst the empaths, certainly I can keep a low profile amongst the remarkably unaware aspies. And who knows, maybe all sociopaths are aspies. Just like the movie Underworld, where all the vampires and werewolves are long lost cousins, socios and aspies can finally realize that we're really just two sides of the same coin. What do you say, aspies? Ready to become one big family?
I can't wait! We could have family reunions or conventions. It could be as popular as Comic-Con! In fact, let's have all the socios dress as vampires and the aspies as werewolves and go to Comic-Con next year! It's going to be so great. Say you will, little aspies. Say you will.
It's not that I dislike aspies. I actually really like them for their loyalty and all of their other good traits. If it seems like I'm down on aspies, it's only because I'm jealous of their superior social position. The truth is that if the aspies asked me to join their club, i would say yes in a heartbeat. I'm like Lindsay Lohan's character in Mean Girls and the aspies are the cool crowd. I'll talk trash and pretend I'm better, but if I got invited to one of their parties I would stay up all night deciding what to wear. (Ah, Molly Ringwald... interested in being a sociopath spokesperson?)
Sometimes I even claim to be an aspie myself. Who wouldn't? If for nothing else, for the aspie pride t-shirts! I mean, I have some of the signs: inability to pick up social cues, weak sense of empathy, inability to conform to social norms. All I would have to do is tone down the charm. If I can pass amongst the empaths, certainly I can keep a low profile amongst the remarkably unaware aspies. And who knows, maybe all sociopaths are aspies. Just like the movie Underworld, where all the vampires and werewolves are long lost cousins, socios and aspies can finally realize that we're really just two sides of the same coin. What do you say, aspies? Ready to become one big family?
I can't wait! We could have family reunions or conventions. It could be as popular as Comic-Con! In fact, let's have all the socios dress as vampires and the aspies as werewolves and go to Comic-Con next year! It's going to be so great. Say you will, little aspies. Say you will.
Do you think the difference between aspies and sociopaths is quantitative or qualitative? While I'm one of the pathetic parasites officially, I've thought of myself as 1/2 way between sociopathy and assperson for a while now... then again may aspergers is half way between autism and sociopathy as it is?
ReplyDeleteOh my god I'm going to start saying assperson. Nothing like making fun of oneself. I love it, with all my calculated heart.
DeleteThere are two forms of empathy. Cognitive and emotional.
DeletePsychopaths have cognitive and not emotional
Aspies have emotional and limited or no cognitive.
Aspies care about people but have trouble understanding why someone is upset at them, what their emotion is and why it came about. Psychopaths can read people like a book, but can't care.
Aspies like empaths can use this ability to live through others as well as themselves, like having multiple lives, for that's how empathy works. Selfishness that's mutually beneficial to both parties.
Psychopaths can't, they can not gain gratification for emotionally helping someone if it doesn't give them either material or status benefit in the long or short run.
There is a huge difference between the two. You can be an aspie and a narcissist, but not a sociopath and an aspie. Sociopaths are marked in being with out emotional empathy.
A big LOL. This blog delivers.
ReplyDelete-Dr Whom
indeed
DeleteMy son is an aspie and after study and experience there are some similarities on a neuroscientific level between the sociopath and the aspie which from what I have seen lies in underactivity in the limbic system for both. Differences between the two lie in the cortex and spinal base. While an aspie is sure to have some abnormality in the autonomic nervous system (which can vary between inactivity in some and overactivity in others) the sociopath consistently shows an inactivity in this part of the nervous system making their emotional responses to their environment (and stresses thereof) often erratic.
ReplyDeleteThen there are differences in the cerebral cortex but not many. Under or over activity in the cerebral cortex is seen in Aspies effecting in some emotional labile, attending,sequencing and perservation. More severe there can be epileptic seizures and some large motor troubles usually not associated with ASPD but are associated in some cases with aspies. There is also some marked differences in activity coming from the parietal lobe in Aspies where this part of the cerebral cortex remains uneffected in most healthy antisocials.
Finally (but probably not everything worth mentioning just the end of my knowledge on this subject) There seems to be in both some slight to moderate overactivity in the temporal lobes. This is going to be the big one when it comes to catergorizing from a high functioning or a low functioning Aspie and antisocial. You talked about memory loss in one of your posts I think ... the fact that some of your memories are like a haze. It's not that you can't remember but rather that you can't grasp parts of it. Underactivity in the temporal lobe is associated with memory loss long term memory as well as loss of libido and extreme passivity (devil may care kind of attitude) while overactivity and a will likely still cause the same memory loss but libido is extremely high as is aggression. The deficit here in Aspies is usually an over activity while ASPD show some varying between underactivity and overactivity.
From a neuroscience level there are quite a few similarities however the quantity of differences means little when addressing the qualitative effects of those few dissimilarities. If you were to stand 5 people in a line of 4 antisocials and 1 aspie it would be easy to pick the aspie out. Just start engaging them.
You say: "'sometimes i even claim to be an aspie myself... i mean, i have certain of the signs -- inability to pick up social cues, weak sense of empathy, inability to conform to social norms."
ReplyDeleteinability to pick up social cues? Totally aspie. weak sense of empathy? that's sociopath- but it's very strange and unusual that those two disorders would be found in the same person. Sociopaths have very smooth social skills. They excel in social situations. Which is why so many of them are con men.
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI'm confused. Perhaps it's because I don't fully understand sociopaths, but it's my understanding that sociopaths don't care about what people think about them so why would you even want to be part of the "cool crowd"?
Also, it's my understanding that sociopaths are social genuises and are fantastic at manipulation. While a small minority of aspies do have some of these traits, aspies are social retards and are often the victims of being manipulated by others.
I don't see how being a sociopath is socially bad for the sociopath (except that most people instinctively think that sociopaths are evil and that aspies are not necessarily evil).
Anyway, interesting blog (though I don't identify with you whatsoever).
From,
Anonymous Aspie
Not so much "don't care what people think about" but "don't care about people." It's an oversimplification, but I like the poetry of the comparison.
DeleteThis is exactly why so many people think the blogger is a malignant narcissist and not a sociopath. Narcissists have lack of empathy, but it comes from a very different reason when they are only narcissistic and not sociopathic. Though all sociopaths show signs of narcissism, there is in fact a difference, even if small.
DeleteAspies are empaths, but missing cognative empathy. The ability to read and directly relate to someone with ease. But if they realize they've hurt someone they've connected with, they do actually feel bad about it (emotional empathy)
Sociopaths are considered bad because many view them as ticking time bombs. If for whatever reason they thought your insides might look interesting regardless of the persons relationship with them, and they couldn't get caught with murder (no drawback in either status or material), they'd do it. Neither the aspie nor empath would and both have morbid curiosity.
Basically, anyone regardless of being or not being neurotypical who can emotionally empathetically connect with others, makes them apart of themselves. An empath is sad when their cat dies or dog because it became apart of them. Psychopaths lack the ability to be anything but solidly their own bodies where as empaths or emotional empaths can be other creatures and other humans as apart of adaptation. If an empath were to kill something they got attached to and basically see as an extension of themselves, well, they wouldn't and when they do for self defense reasons, they end up with PTSD. That's why psychopaths can kill with no issue, they can't make others into themselves and there is no mutual benefit on that level. They truly live alone.
Deena wrote: "Sociopaths have very smooth social skills. They excel in social situations. Which is why so many of them are con men."
ReplyDeleteThis combined with Stealthy Ninja's mention of neurological similarities between Aspies and sociopaths leads to a strange thought:
One of the reasons sociopaths are so smooth in social situations is that they break them down, analyze them, often think them rather than feel them. This is the same way most with Asperger's have to learn to socialize. They're often thinking the same way, only one group is born literate, leading to rapid mastery, while the other group is born with their ability to read those cues retarded, leading to just the opposite. Neurotypicals fall somewhere in the middle.
The predatory vs. helpless victim mindsets likely stem directly from this. If you're a genius who can push buttons and create results, then rewire a given person's system entirely, you feel competent, skilled, superior - if you stumble through not understanding the language, you feel like a permanent tourist.
It almost seems to me like sociopaths are Aspie cousins who are "social engineering geeks" - they understand how to hack humans. This makes me wonder about what effects changes to the neurological system (head injuries, for example, or some medications) might have on where one falls in the spectrum.
I'd like to comment on something Anonymous said: "I'm confused. Perhaps it's because I don't fully understand sociopaths, but it's my understanding that sociopaths don't care about what people think about them so why would you even want to be part of the "cool crowd"?"
ReplyDeleteFrom my experience it's just the opposite. Sociopaths care more about what people think about them than any other group of people out there. Whether they acknowledge it or not. Everything they do is governed by what kind of reaction it will get. Life for a sociopath is like being an actor and every moment of your life is spent on stage in the spotlight. Half of manipulation is judging the reaction of the person being manipulated. Perhaps in a literal sense the sociopath can't really care about what someone thinks, but that's not to say that it doesn't matter.
We have to be very careful with how we phrase things, my friend.
DeleteIt's not that we care what kind of opinion another person holds of us; we care about the potential impact that opinion could have on us and our games. There is a very significant difference. I care a lot about how people see me, because I have an image to maintain. If I let the image crumble due to carelessness or callousness, I'll lose hold over everything around me and the game will be ruined.
But WHY do sociopaths care so much what people think, when they don't care about people? It seems such a contradiction.
ReplyDeleteBecause they care about power, manipulation and control over others.
DeleteThey perceive the world as a dog-eat-dog competition between hypocritical selfish creatures and the relationships are defined as a balance of power.
They are not really indifferent, they care about people in a certain way since they need human interaction.
I am diagnosed with aspergers. one thing thats in common with aspergers and sociopathy is they both seem to be alexithymic which is a lack of understanding feelings. Sometimes i wonder if i actually have what other people call feelings. However there are a few moral issues I do feel strongly about. I can also say I dont think i've ever felt bad about anything i've ever done but that could be because if i thought i was i wouldn't have done it. I suspose the biggest differance is people with asperger's don't know how to manipulate people and in most cases probablly have no intrest in doing so. Aspergers was originally called autistic psychopathy and the original defination seemed like a mix of the current defination of aspergers along with symptoms of conduct disorder, adhd, and schizoid PD. true aspies also likely make a horrible target for sociopaths because it would be unusual for an aspie to respond the way an NT would to manipulation. It would probablly take a whole differant technique, probablly similar to manipulating another sociopath. I have no idea when people are lying but I also keep an open mind to they may or may not be bullshitting. NTs do not seem to ever get that people do these things and still fall for the same ol tricks even when they know someone does these things over and over. I at least realize that I never know what someone is really thinking and am always suspicious of what they are truely up to. I also have no intrest in getting involved with others unless I want to. I am indifferent to what people think and there is nothing i want from people.
ReplyDeleteI will second all of this. I am an aspie who have frustrated one too many socio, not once not twice, now a third time. Funny that the socio does not get me at all.
DeleteAspergers is NOT anywhere near the same as being a sociopath. There are some superficial similarities, but thats all they are- superficial. I am sure that some aspies may be a bit sociopathic, and vice versa- but essentially the two conditions are unrelated.
ReplyDeleteApergers do not have the same desires, goals, motivations, etc. as the sociopath. And the thing about being able to understand and recognise emotions and social cues- aspies are confused by these and do not understand what they are about, until they are explained to them for the billionth time, where as the sociopath may not FEEL the emotions (or if they do, they often feel them in a very different way than 'normal' peolpe), but they do understand how they work and they understand social cues and interaction, and the subtle nuances of human interaction, which they use to their advantage. Unlike the aspie, who will be at the supermarket clothes aisle, having a profound conversation with his mother about a twin pack of briefs. TRUTH in a nutshell! ;) Take it easy!!
I recently took this empathy test and scored a 7.
ReplyDeletehttp://glennrowe.net/BaronCohen/EmpathyQuotient/EmpathyQuotient.aspx
It would be interesting to hear how other sociopaths fared.
I'm the aspie at 3:38, Feb 3, 2012 above, scored 24. Says aspies score around 20. Now I'll see what to correct from there. some are easy to do, basically don't talk much, keep listening.
Delete1) If you naturally and honestly scored a 7 on that, then you are not a sociopath, you are just an extraordinarily low-functioning human being. I consider myself a sociopath and I scored 43. The majority of those questions had nothing to do with genuine empathy; they didn't ask if you felt the emotions of others, only if you could identify them. A sociopath should score much, much higher on this than an Aspie simply because we have an innate, intuitive understanding of emotion and the ability to identify it in others, despite not feeling it ourselves.
Delete2) The phrasing on so many questions was despicably ambiguous, and did not ever take into account the drives behind the actions, just the actions themselves. Quizzes like these prove nothing at all. Absolutely nothing.
I scored 6 and am an aspie and probably either a psychopath or sociopath don't know which one.
DeleteAspie here. I got an 8.
DeleteIt's important to remember this test measures cognitive empathy, not emotional empathy. As an indicator of sociopathy it is inappropriate. This test is designed to evaluate autistic empathetic traits.
Doesn't mean you're not a socio, just that this isn't the test you should have taken.
I'm a biologically female, undiagnosed Aspie. I scored a 24. Woot!???
ReplyDeleteI find myself relating to sociopathic reason when I completely detach myself from my emotions and allow myself to be ruthlessly jaded. I don't like seeing the world that way, but sometimes it is a necessary defense mechanism for someone who has difficulty discerning the motives of others.
If not for guilt and empathy, I think I could be very successful at exploiting others and at financial gain. Sometimes I hate my conscience, because it holds me back from "succeeding" in a world of cut-throats. On the other hand, I accept that my conscience and empathic qualities are central to my personality.
I can relate to Data, from Star Trek, who is often baffled by human expression. Sometimes I think it would be a relief to be emotionally indifferent.
You make me think I found my twin! Unbelievable. I wish you were still around.
DeleteAn addendum: I also like feeling joy and moral satisfaction (however flawed it often is).
ReplyDeleteOk, unfortunately it seems most people here are struggling to differentiate between "sociopath" and "psychopath" even though neither are valid medical/scientific terms and now exist purely as figments of culture and literature.
ReplyDeleteThe agreed upon distinction (and this is by no means the commonly accepted one) is that psychopaths are emotionally manipulative, experts at reading emotions (though only feel them on a synthetic level) and are petrified solid that they will be discovered as being "different"
Where as a sociopath not only accepts they are different, but takes great pride in it. They tend to be socially outsiders but are capable of participating on their terms, when there is something in it for them. Any capacity to manipulate or control comes exclusively on a psychoanalytical and intellectual level, not an emotional one.
I consider myself a sociopath (by this definition) or a very high functioning aspie, or both. I literally make no distinction.
I have a very large circle of friends that I care deeply about, and am popular with, but seemingly on my own terms. When I think (for arguments sake) about killing one of them, I feel no particular remorse or guilt or horror at the concept, but I mourn the inefficiency and loss to society that their death would represent, kind of like if the large haedron collider or hubble space telescope suddenly broke. They are good friends to me, ergo they are of exceptional value both to myself and society, ergo I could not live with myself were I responsible for their incapacity to continue being valuable.
In this vein I suppose I have absolutely zero moral or emotional guidelines or restrains, but have made up for them with exceptionally complex ethical ones. Whether these ethical guidelines have been socially constructed out of a sense of denial, or are just hard wired in, is out of my hands to say. Never the less, I would consider myself at afar greater capacity to harm or damage society as result, pending the onset of extenuating circumstance, such as the fictitious events of half life 2 (hehehe)
^^^^^
ReplyDeleteUm, far LESS capacity to harm society. Damn, what a typo :(
Sociopaths contribute very little of value to society, and they do a whole lot of damage. They can't love, they can only consume. Parasites, is what they are. Human parasites. They will suck you dry and spit you out, if you let them. They can destroy your life and sanity and that of your children, and still demand loyalty and dedication when all they can do is cheat and lie - all the while blaming you and making you feel guilty. They have nothing to give emotionally, and no frame of reference for morals, ethics, values, or rules. God forbid that the world will become populated by them, because destruction will be swift and irreversible. But things are on their way along that path. Politicians are sociopaths of the highest order, as are those whom less aware individuals idolize, such as movie stars, music stars, and sports stars, and other so called 'stars'. The irony is that those who least deserve seem to be the ones who are getting the most, at least for now. Perhaps because that is the nature of it. But there is no future of excellence, perhaps no future at all, if the world is left to these vultures.
ReplyDeleteI have to say that I am grateful for this blog. Though created by a sociopath, it is a marvelous source of information.
Yes, as you are all salivating with contempt, I am indeed an empath who got burned, but I am no sheep and never was. But the coniving sociopath who enlightened me surely tried to beat me into submission - literally - yet he'd despize any sign of weakness (i.e. humanity) were I to give in to his abuse. If you are a sociopath, quit giving yourself kudos for your reckless abuse of yourself, of others, and of life in general. Though you don't believe in karma, that does not mean it is less real or that you will somehow be spared from the result of your consequences. The universe has infalible laws that not even you are above. Yes, sociopaths are skilled, but they are not as above others and their delusional minds convince them they are.
Weak Willed said, Though you don't believe in karma, that does not mean it is less real or that you will somehow be spared from the result of your consequences. The universe has infalible laws that not even you are above.
ReplyDeleteThis then, is how despair is born. When forced to face reality as it appears, where such things as karma or "infallible universal laws" do not appear to have any power, one is left with despair. Despair is nothing more than a temper tantrum, a childish reaction to the realization that life doesn't give a damn about humanity's beliefs, especially the desire for revenge that you dress up and call justice.
Whatever else I am or am not, I am indeed above karma. Because it doesn't exist. If you want a job done right, you'll have to do it yourself. Meaning if you want revenge you will have to make it happen.
Awww, you can join our club! We love you!
ReplyDeleteNah, seriously, though, it's a total bum deal, how we get represented. You know, we're 'unempathetic' in the socially awkward, sort of superficial way, and you're 'unempathetic' in a way that is more problematic to NT society, so we get portrayed as lovable bumbling geniuses most of the time (or, at worst, bumbling creeps and at best simply geniuses), and you get portrayed as utter scum and villains who nobody should love or trust. It's total bullshit. We love our sociopathic brethren.
I'm a self-diagnosed Aspie. I've been researching sociopathy for a while now, and this is my advice to other fellow Aspies engaging with sociopathic people.
ReplyDeleteWhile I'm aware many of you would get a feast of wondrous satisfaction from making a sociopath realize how he or she is not central to the Universe, or to point out any deficiencies they may have in order to force some realism into their minds, you are only wasting your precious time.
Carry on with your own affairs and don't waste any efforts on them. Sociopath minds operate on the virtual principle that they are perfect and infallible, and that any perceived flaw is secondary to their core operation (a self-recursive system).
This principle is the operating foundation of a predator's mindset, and is what enables them to live in a near-permanent state of aggression.
To allow them to see themselves as they are, would potentially require the complete rewiring of their synapses.
Keep in mind it is impossible to break a recursive, self-referential and circular logical system (or circuit) without reprogramming it.
That is precisely the type of wiring sociopath brains are built upon. They live their perception through a virtual panorama enabling them to exploit other, weaker NT's virtual social construct.
Individuals with Asperger's do not bear any virtual system at our cores, and that is the reason we are so logically accurate and at the same time socially discordant.
In order to be predators, we would require to operate their same self-referential virtual mindset to be socially adept. I don't think any Aspie on their right mind would want this.
Please stop engaging with them. Both our neuro-configurations might be superficially compatible, but in the end our motivations and expectations, and our perceptual frames are entirely dissonant.
Remember that when it comes to sociopaths, all time spent is wasted, as you are forcing classical logic into a system based on infinite self-recursions and loopholes.
How about when you use a sociopath to access some resources that you could not access on your own? How about you don't out your interests under his control in any way while doing this? How about you actually kind of wish to have him go as high as possible so you can too? How about the socio is really on his way up and you can get a pie of that?
DeleteHeh, and I'd thought you sociopaths were the ones who were better thought of. How about we help teach you to be endearingly awkward while you guys spread rumours that we're actually dangerous bad-boys.
ReplyDeleteNo, even if I had any empathy for you, which I do not, I don't need comradeship, besides you guys are clingy, attention seeking, demanding, high maintenance, pathetically manipulative, narcissistic, (which means you are not nearly as interesting as tidal currents, or gravel even so seems we would have nothing to discuss) and self serving, drama queens and you talk far too much, blah, blah, blah, blah, how would we get any thinking done?
ReplyDeleteBesides the werewolf or beserker costume would better suit you guys!
Not this aspie. I've had experience with sociopaths, and you have nothing of value to offer. Frankly, I think your kind should be barred from all human contact: you kind amuse yourselves with other playthings.
ReplyDeleteAs for the "lack of empathy" attributed to aspies, it is not at all similar: we have difficulty reading others' emotions, but most actually do care to the extent that we are aware of them. We're seen as harmless because we actually mean well.
*you can amuse...
DeleteI posted this in response to a different thread, but I think it merits posting here as well, as it seems everyone is focusing on the reason why Aspies "have it better" than sociopaths, via simplistic comparisons between the two groups, rather than objecting to the core premise, which is deeply flawed. So I say again...
ReplyDeleteThe idea that AS is socially more acceptable than sociopathy is true, but only in a very limited sense, to wit: An NT, upon meeting two individuals, one a sociopath and one an Aspie, and KNOWING what the individuals are, will feel less threatened by the Aspie, and may even pity him.
But this distinction is premised on the NT knowing each individual's diagnosis, which is rarely the case when encountering a sociopath. An Aspie, while he or she may not immediately be identifiable as such, will generally come across as "weird" or "off" to an NT (these are the words I've run into most often), whereas a sociopath will come across as normal or perhaps even charming. Thus in everyday interaction the sociopath has a large advantage. It is absurd to conclude that people like Aspies more than sociopaths. I guarantee you the average sociopath has far more friends than the average Aspie (although the sociopath may not really value this friendship). Does anyone doubt this, or that sociopaths are far more competent in their interactions with others and in getting what they want?
I read somewhere (an English ASD-advocacy group's website, I think) that roughly 1 in 8 Aspies have a full time job. The reason for this is not that Aspies are lazy, but that they are socially incompetent, unlikeable, and terrible during interviews. I don't know how many sociopaths are employed full-time, but I suspect the number is near the norm.
AS is a disability. Sociopathy is not (at least not when considering success as a metric). It is unsurprising NT's feel less threatened by Aspies, but this does not mean, in real life, that they will favor interactions with Aspies over sociopaths--in fact, their reaction is usually the opposite.
I am a diagnosed Aspie. I have no friends, and have had great difficulty finding a suitable job, despite having a very high IQ and a technical college degree. I also have a host of comorbid mood disorders that I doubt are especially common among sociopaths. And I am not particularly unique for an Aspie. Most face similar difficulties. I would love to be a sociopath--the ability to deal effectively with people for personal gain is an enviable trait, but I simply lack the machinery to develop it.
I say all this not in an attempt to elicit sympathy (which I know would be useless here anyhow), but simply to call attention to the absurdity of the notion that Aspies are somehow "treated better" than sociopaths. Ridiculous.
this is adorable
ReplyDeletei disagree with the assertion that aspies lack empathy. they lack sensitivity to social cues. they will feel very sad if they knew that another person was hurt or pained. they will share in joy. they will also share in outrage/anger. what they don't get is some of the non-rational stuff -- like being upset that the house was swept away in a storm. that thing is gone. crying isn't going to bring it back. or being worried about a miscarriage. why? it's not going to stop it. there's nothing you can do about a miscarriage.
ReplyDeletefive years to get anywhere NEAR self-aware. approximately five more years to learn that sarcasm exists, and most of the following 20 to learn HOW sarcasm works and how to identify it. i kind of want to punch you for this post, and for your consistent misinformed (and misinforming) words about us over the course of several posts i've read here now, and i think i know why.
ReplyDeleteI'm an aspie myself, and I gotta say that this article has some true things in it, but some things aren't. I have quite a lot of (empathetic) feelings. (Or actually, I used to have them until a while ago. But still. I used to have them)
ReplyDeletePersonally I don't really know how most people look at sociopaths, but I concluded from this article that it's pretty negative. But that's not strange I suppose. A lack of empathy --> egoism. Manipulation, lying. That's pretty much what I know of sociopaths, and if other people know as much as me, I'm not surprised sociopaths don't have a great social position. (Note: I'm not one to judge though. Like, you guys just do whatever you wanna do. I came on this site looking for tips on manipulation, so if I judged sociopaths for being manipulative, I'd be a hypocrite)
And why aspies do have a good social position? We do have empathy. Also, we're not so likely to lie. (I read that somewhere, a long time ago) And feelings we show are sincere, while sociopaths aren't really known to do that. Also, maybe even the most important aspect, aspies have more concrete problems, so people can pity us. To me, it seems like sociopaths are doing just fine.
I completely forgot what was the point I was working toward to. Also it's 23:30 here so that might be a cause.
What i just wanna say is that I think that people love pitying, and sociopaths are hard to pity, while aspies have so many problems, they're easy to pity. Also, they have a good excuse for bad behavior.
I make a different distinction between sociopath and psychopath than the commenter further up. Sociopath/psychopath have two components: enhanced cognitive empathy, and diminished emotions & affective empathy. I define sociopath as having enhanced cognitive empathy, and the psychopath as having diminished emotions (you can't have affective empathy without them). I think these are their core traits respectively, as that is what they will always be even if they forgo the dark side and stop being evil.
ReplyDeleteThese definitions concord with many popular distinctions between the two. Psychopaths are nature and sociopaths are nurture, because psychopaths are wired without emotion, while the sociopath may be repressing the emotion or acting on emotion. Sociopaths are the higher functioning, because the psychopath's cognitive empathy might not be all that crash hot. Psychopaths are the higher functioning, because the sociopath may be an emotional wreck underneath. Sociopaths are the higher functioning, because they are operating from an enhanced ability while psychopaths are operating from a diminished ability. Etc etc etc.
But what are the opposites of sociopath and psychopath? It is obvious that aspergers is the opposite of sociopath, because of the cognitive empathy deficit. I think the opposite of psychopath is borderline - and I don't mean the disorder, I mean the person they are underneath the disorder, or a person who was predisposed to developing the disorder, but didn't because they had an agreeable childhood. Maybe an empath. But I label this dimension borderline, because the other three are regarded as disorders, so this one should be a "disorder" too.
Note also that the two dimensions combine, so you can also have psychopathic or borderline sociopaths; sociopathic or autistic psychopaths; borderline or psychopathic aspergers, and sociopathic or autistic borderline. The region in the middle would be neurotypical, being well balanced in both dimensions.
So the writer of this blog (entry), saying he/she has cognitive empathy deficits as per aspergers - this indicates that he/she may be a psychopath rather than a sociopath?
Not necessarily, because there is a third dimension, and this dimension basically determines whether the sociopath, psychopath, aspie, borderline or neurotypical is a complete prick or not: this dimension is narcissism, in which what is lacking is a third kind of empathy: actually giving a shit about people, regardless of whether you have the emotional or intellectual capacity to do so fluently.
I'm totally open to brotherhood and sisterhood with sociopaths, psychopaths, borderlines, fellow aspies and neurotypicals - just so long as they are not being narcissistic pricks! So long as they give a shit about people, as far as their natural capacities allow them to express, I'm happy.
listen..........Aspies hate Aspies; not all,but a certain percentage do. and, if not exactly hate or disdain,there is the dynamic of the "blind leading the blind",for sure. that's why, the concept of an Asperger support group;is so flawed,and almost oxymoronic by definition.
ReplyDeleteI have to disagree I go to a coffee group for high functioning autism and have been to meetups for autistics of all levels and it creates a very accepting environment that the ones who have more trouble socially really thrive in. its great no one has to worry about seeming weird
Deletelol comic con i dont think i would go i think it would seem boring
ReplyDeletethis is very flattering but I seem to sense sarcasm at the end
ReplyDeleteIt is very interesting to read your thoughts about aspergers/autism and sociopathy and how they are similar.
ReplyDeleteI'm a diagnosed aspie and stumbled upon your book when I was waiting for a flight and got extremely bored. I didn't expect much to be honest, but happened to actually enjoy the read. While reading "Confessions of a Sociopath" I found a lot of similarities between the sociopath (or rather the version thereof described in the book) and myself. Even though I am not completely certain, I do assume I'm a correctly diagnosed aspie and not a misdiagnosed sociopath, and that there are just some similarities that are striking.
In this light I also didn't fail to notice how society treats two diagnoses with so many similarities in such completely different ways it defies any logic (and therefore bothers me).
I think you (and other sociopaths) are rightfully pissed about such unequal treatment by a society that tries to promote things like "equality" and "fairness" as its core moral values. I was lucky enough to get the one diagnosis out of the two that isn't looked down upon but rather met with support and some sort of affection even. And even if I will one day come to the conclusion that I am actually a misdiagnosed sociopath I will certainly keep this to myself.
"I have some of the signs: inability to pick up social cues, weak sense of empathy, inability to conform to social norms. All I would have to do is tone down the charm. If I can pass amongst the empaths, certainly I can keep a low profile amongst the remarkably unaware aspies. And who knows, maybe all sociopaths are aspies."
ReplyDeleteThe "weak sense of empathy" myth I see rears it's ugly head once again. "Aspies" do NOT lack empathy, in spite of what so many who should know better may say. If anything the opposite is true; there is far too much emotional stimuli to process, and many "aspies" struggle to keep it all under control.
Another thing: sociopaths and those on the proverbial autism spectrum have almost nothing in common. They are almost polar opposites. You are one seriously misinformed person, I must tell you that.