Empaths sometimes email me regarding relationships they have with sociopaths. This is one of the most enlightened, self-aware accounts from an empath that I've ever received in one of these exchanges:
Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. They were helpful.
As much as it hurt me to go through this situation with my ex, it was fascinating, too.
My ex takes pleasure in becoming what his "victim" wants him to be, then systematically breaking them down, showing them their own hypocricy, and punishing them by mastering their value system, twisting it, and using it as a weapon.
I have to admit, that is pretty damn cool (even though it felt horrible).
In my mind, I just sort of hope he crosses more deserving individuals, because, hindsight, I like to see him as part of a balanced system of karma. haha.
You mentioned in your response how it angers you when someone starts crying during an argument. And, after my relationship, I'm really able to see how socios view emotions as tools for manipulation; changing the playing field, like you said. I never saw it that way – but, I get it, and I don't think I'll ever view emotions the same way again, haha.
I guess, as much as my ex destroyed me, he kind of enlightened me, as well.
I am no longer with him. And, you implied that it probably wasn't worth the hassle. But, the strange part was really, it was worth the hassle. That's why I returned to him so many times. He made me feel so alive, so stirred emotionally, and so mentally alert, trying to anticipate his next move, that I think I regained a lot of passion. I was constantly re-evaluating his actions and my own, trying to make sense of things, that I left having a stronger grasp on my concepts of love, empathy, morals, and fears. I saw them all in a new light, and left making new decisions regarding them.
Ultimately, staying with him wasn't worth the long-term, high risk investment. He took up too much of my time. He was much too possessive, too dangerous, and too capable of brilliant manipulation. I was too reactive, unable to buffer the effect he had on me of emotional highs and lows, with objective practicality and understanding of his nature.
I couldn't focus on being ME, anymore. I had become his host; the provider of durability, consistency and foundation. And, the entire world that I was once a fully participating member of was collapsing under his weight and manipulation. The life that we had together was diametrically opposed to the life and loved ones I was leaving behind. There were no rules there and no guidelines. He wouldn't allow it.
Staying with him would've been the most selfish decision I'd ever made. And, although he subliminally encouraged me towards giving over to being with him, I knew I would lose everything... as well as my identity.
I was more in love with him than I've ever been with anyone. And, I know I will not likely feel that intense love again, adding much to both my despair and relief. He is really a beautiful destroyer..
But, to wrap things up: I knew that once it suited him, once he found a better, stronger, more beautiful host, he could and would toss me aside, unprepared and unable to recover.
I would've been left alone, a stranger to my family and friends, and the betrayer of everything I ever worked towards, loved, and believed in.
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ReplyDeleteI was more in love with him than I've ever been with anyone.
ReplyDeleteWhen I read this it was if I was suddenly dropped at the bottom of
Mt Everest looking up and not just in awe of the precipice so impossible for me to reach - but at the idea that others can and have seen the top. It is beyond my comprehension. I wouldn't even know where to start. Snow boots?
Sometimes I forget that my biggest incapability isn't that I don't experience whatever emotion must lie behind those words, but that I can not even comprehend how such a thing exists; not just how it works NOW, how it came to be that way. The equipment and mechanisms they inherit are as innate as my own, and you use what you've got. But sociopaths fake it so often, at least for me, I forget that understanding it on some level isn't the same as comprehending it. When I try to think how I would ever go about experiencing these things myself, what it takes, how it happens all I can ever come up with is...snow boots?
Sarah, Do you want to experience it?
ReplyDeleteWould you swap being a sociopath for being an empath?
Sarah I've been reading your comments and have found them tedious. Stop taking up all that space when you have so little to say. It's ridiculous. Your the most dramatic person on here and I can't bare to see your long winded scripts dumped onto this blog anymore. Mt Everest? Snow? What does that have to do with anything we're discussing???
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteSarah, Do you want to experience it? Would you swap being a sociopath for being an empath?
Well, I guess that's the thing. I don't even know what that would mean, it's so foreign it's bizarre.
I never even played the "what do you want to do when you grow up" game when I was little. I always said I didn't know. When I was in sixth grade and we had to do an assignment on it, I copied what someone else wrote because I couldn't even think of how to make something up that sounded true. I was caught and I told my teacher that it was because I just don't know. And she asked if I cared about it...and I had that same feeling of "huh"? (Care about something I don't know...?) I answered honestly and said I didn't even know if I cared one way or another. I was sent to the school councilor because everyone was concerned why I was so 'apathetic'. I think I went 3 times. I was mute for the first 2 because when I tried to explain to the councilor that it was just that I really didn't understand the question she thought I was being evasive. And then finally, which I now understand was an attempt to get me to acknowledge that I was being evasive and avoiding- she asked, "Okay, do you know what it is about the question that you don't understand?" I remember my first two exact words were "A little" and the rest was something like, "I just know how a grown up was ever a kid and a kid becomes a grown up. That's the weird part that i don't know about" ... except there were a lot of ums, likes, and random dated kid lingo that extended it about 10 minutes. And then all of a sudden, she was pleased with my answer, impressed even. Later my mom told me she loved embarrassing the teacher by pointing out she couldn't tell the difference between emotionally disturbed and intellectually advanced. And what typifies the alien feeling a sociopath child has is: I could not for the life of me understand why she told me she understood, even repeated it back to me in that therapy way so that I felt 'validated' and then didn't even attempt to give clarity to what we had both had clearly acknowledged I didn't understand. Here I was thinking I was going to get some answers but had apparently already passed the test. Now it's the theme of my life. Sorry I'm wordy.
intellectually advanced and emotionally in a lost field. Talking about embarrassing her children, grandiose socio Sarah. Feels validated. Cheater, lazy, procrastinator, typical socio at an early age, fluid personality to actually sign off on another's life plan, no self-definition or respect.
DeleteIntellectually advanced and emotionally available children would not react like Sarah did. They would have felt a need to put out an honest answer of being undetermined and the teacher would have bought it. Whereas here with Sarah what we are seeing is an apathetic stance, more like anger of not-knowing masked as apathetic and uncooperative. Already non-cooperative in terms of what is expected.
Has anyone seen in past posts what Sarah's profession was. She sure sounds like an academic to me.
Thunder, dude. Remember thy free will.
ReplyDeleteJust because I write it doesn't mean you have to read it. It's not Mt. Everest.
In fact, this may even be the first time I've read one of your comments. Skim.
I agree with your take on the email M.E. It’s nice to see a normal take a little responsibility for her part in the fiasco. She knows she was into the drama because it made her feel alive. She knows that she wasn’t a passive and powerless victim; she was an active and even willing participant. It takes two to tango.
ReplyDelete“I forget that understanding it on some level isn't the same as comprehending it.”
Too true. In my case, I’ve noticed that there is a real difference between having an intellectual understanding of the dynamic and really grokking it. Even when I get the psychological mechanics and can competently theorize about what’s happening, I sometimes still find myself literally mystified about the so called ‘normal’ behavior I’m seeing/hearing.
I can relate to much of what Daniel says. He expresses hard concepts in an easy to understand way. It is a long 9 inches from the head to the heart. What you have in the head does you little good. What you have in the heart is gold.
Deletei have a long 9 inches but not between my head and heart
DeleteDaniel Birdick said...
ReplyDeleteYou might have guessed by now my academic background is actually in psychology. I dunno. Don't ask. Anyway, I guess that's why I do like reading all those links and articles I talk about because studying evolutionary psychology kinda helps me have SOME explanation-that's more on my level- as to all the hows and whys that go into making the downright depressing variety of people I meet or ... am related to.
But that just helps excuse their behavior. When they question why I don't see the value in what they do - and usually make personality or intellectual inferences - I still get pissed. But in a very tedious, long winded punishing lecture on the evils of an unstable false value system.
There we go... I was thinking academic because she was coming across quite academic about psychology but not exactly fully aware of psychological nuances, and not fully aware. So, must have a BS in Psychology, or a social worker degree.
DeleteCool that she gets pissed, she pisses a lot of people too.
Unstable false value system... I guess she is referring to her own value system, or the perceived sociopathic value system with this. Unstable does not mean impulsive, I would not call sociopathic value system unstable exactly.
Sociopaths are the most profound training programs for those with great empathic ability and sharp, clear minds.
ReplyDeleteHaving been in a close intimate relationship with an S for over two years, I am now able to see what he sees, perceive the world and other people the way he perceives them, and yet I have lost nothing of my ability to feel everything. Not only can I see and comprehend who and what he is as well as the world as he knows it, but I am able to truly experience it and understand his locus of awareness.
However, although I have been able through my reserves of empathy found a way to enter and transfuse with his world, he will never be able to enter mine. He helped me very much to harness my extra-sensory perception and supernatural radar; he helped me become a stronger and more objective, detached channel - capable of filtering out so much emotional static so that I am now a kind of hybrid - truly the best of both worlds!
Eckhart Tolle's The Power of Now advances a theory that "ego" can be transcended; interestingly enough, my S helped me along that path - the S (unlike the dreaded N) is really without an ego. Unfortunately, he is also without the apparatus that makes transcending the ego an activity of becoming a Master - the ability to feel.
As an empath who experiences a greater sensory bandwidth than the average human, my S actually helped me break ground into a great liberation from the “sheeple-hood” of the matrix-like programming of self and personality, while retaining an ability to converge and mingle with emotional nuances that will forever elude him.
His mind can only infer the Platonic Forms beyond the dim shadows cast upon the dull cave wall; I, however, am now able to not only recognize them as he does, but I can transfuse completely with them.
The true empath has the ability to take all unto themselves and yet, are strong enough retain a center, a core of being capable of great tensions - we are Towers that cannot crumble or fall because we do not oppose anything, we accept everything into ourselves and make it a part of us - our inherent unity of being can incorporate infinite multiplicity - and having now been schooled in the detachment and objectivity of the S. - I am feeling a freedom unknown to ordinary mortals.
Unfortunately, I could not help him although I tried tirelessly - I could not take him with me on this journey to full actualization of human potential. It is no less tragic to me that he cannot see how ironic the one-sided nature of our relationship really was - the irony being that he served me, yet all along believing I was serving him - yet in truth, there was nothing ever that I could give him - despite how much I desired a reciprocity of true shared identity and being and despite how much he tried to exploit that desire to serve himself.
There was nothing on his end to transfuse with, no foundation to the iceberg of his soul. As much as he tried, he was incapable of taking anything from me, and only left me great blessings…
Anon 1:49, you're a big narcie.
DeleteYou were not formed enough to leave a relationship with a socio as unscathed as you claim. If you had strong enough boundries to withstand him the relationship would never have gotten off the ground unless you went into it aware which is not realistic either. Sounds to me like you were with a special olympics level socio if at all. Could have been just a republican or libertarian from what you describe. You would have lost a lot more than you realized at the time. And one day your life would have been a shadow on a cave wall. Thats when you know what a socio is, you are standing there in the ruins of your former life wondering how you didn't know.
DeleteYou were not formed enough to leave a relationship with a socio as unscathed as you claim. If you had strong enough boundries to withstand him the relationship would never have gotten off the ground unless you went into it aware which is not realistic either. Sounds to me like you were with a special olympics level socio if at all. Could have been just a republican or libertarian from what you describe. You would have lost a lot more than you realized at the time. And one day your life would have been a shadow on a cave wall. Thats when you know what a socio is, you are standing there in the ruins of your former life wondering how you didn't know.
DeleteI'm an empath and even I don't believe what you're saying.
ReplyDeleteHave fun thinking you have gained?
What did you gain? The ability to spot them, and avoid them... maybe deal with them. Perhaps you picked up his demon. Hello demon. Scared of the name of Jesus?
Anonymous from October 9: While I was walking through a particularly well known science/math-focused university, a man in a suit stopped me and gave me his book on CD-form. "Psychic Warfare." He had a nasal, barely-rasping voice and told me if I could reverse engineer what was on that book, I could be a millionaire.
ReplyDeleteThat guy was fucking crazy and you remind me of him.
Did you read the book? Did it look like you could reverse engineer it?
DeleteMy experience has mirrored the blessings and benefits mentioned in the earlier posts. My secret relationship with a man with strong Psychopathic traits has been the most enlivening and emotionally expansive experience in my life. Just as he stings me more I arise stronger, more intuitive, more aware. There has been painful struggles. I have tried to break it off many times yet I am fed by the deep unseen ties, psychic tracking at a distance and mind fucks. I treasure every moment. I have learned to play. I enjoy his genius I am not a victim. I am choosing knowledge over discomfort. And when the suffering outweighs the wisdom, I will leave. Or when another better fills his needs. He will leave.
ReplyDeleteWhat a dismal life
DeleteI've also been secretly in love with a man for a looong time who I'm coming to believe may be an [undiagnosed] high-functioning sociopath or at least have tendencies in that direction. My family and friends would be horrified.
ReplyDeleteReading this site has reinforced that likelihood in my mind. I recognize the addictive quality of our relationship, the delicious fantasy he created for me and the extreme highs and lows in the posts of other people here.
He has never been physically faithful to me and I never expected it. I probably should’ve had more self-respect but I just understood that he was able to compartmentalize his emotions in that way.
It seems that I’m an uber-empath who entertained him for a while. I’m getting older now and he’s become bored with me, my feelings and my pesky conscience. I will miss him.
"My ex takes pleasure in becoming what his "victim" wants him to be, then systematically breaking them down, showing them their own hypocricy, and punishing them by mastering their value system, twisting it, and using it as a weapon."
ReplyDeleteWhy the fuck is this the only place I find these God damn "enlightening" statements.
I had a very similar LONG term situation and I was incredibly naive, but here it is... in blatant writing something I should have seen, ironically, around that time this blog post was listed.
DeleteHaven, you see this? - -
"My ex takes pleasure in becoming what his "victim" wants him to be, then systematically breaking them down, showing them their own hypocricy, and punishing them by mastering their value system, twisting it, and using it as a weapon."
When you were with the mal narc did you do that?
Not quite. His way was to get in my head so I'd reveal things about myself that I wouldn't normally so he could use them against me. He never tried to be what he thought I wanted. What I wanted didn't matter. It was all about him and his need for control.
DeleteHe did try punishing me by showing that I wasn't the kind of person I wanted to be. But mastering my own value system? The only thing he valued was his own image. As long as what he did made him look good, nothing else mattered.
Amusingly, in that statement, if you're adopting a system of belief or virtue for the sake of someone else (using it as a weapon against them), that in itself is hypocrisy.
DeleteME, this is twitter-worthy:
"if you're adopting a system of belief or virtue for the sake of someone else (using it as a weapon against them), that in itself is hypocrisy."
Haven when was the last time you had a foot massage?
Romney wants to demolish Sesame Street.
ReplyDeleteHe would stop the funding by US taxpayers. Long overdue.........
DeleteParents need to stop using the TV as a babysitter, anyway.
DeleteYou sound like you're in desperate need of a BJ Sir. Can we offer you one?
DeleteI'm Mitt Romney and I approve of this blow job.
i'll take a monica lewinsky
DeleteMmmm junk in the trunk
You were first MP!!!!! Congrats mate!
ReplyDeleteI've always wondered if one of my exes ever came to this site, or something similar.
ReplyDeleteOh and I forgot, Good morning Sociopathworld!!!!
ReplyDeleteYou forgot the fifth '!'
DeleteFucking noob.
LOL!!!!!
DeleteThere we go!!!!!
Are you going to get out there and vote Mr Ãœber Empath?
ReplyDeleteIs it easy to register to vote? Cause Iam one lazy bastard (everybody knows that).
DeleteI'd like to vote, if it is easy.
Yeah well, it's not like they're giving away free blowjobs for every new person they register to vote.
DeleteBut, I'm sure they'd love to see you at one of the many voting registrars. Especially if anything I've read about you on this site is to be believed you apparently live in Florida yeah?
Who knows - you may even make some new friends young man and be doing something positive in the process.
Yeah well, it's not like they're giving away free blowjobs for every new person they register to vote.
DeleteNo they are doing that. I got a pamphlet that says I get one blowjob per "lever pushed". And apparently you only get the blow job IF you actually go down there and do the voting. OYu can register, but no bj until you show up.
It's like they're daring you to vote.
I think it's a conspiracy. I mean they even say they'll separate you from the rest of the voters when you come in with the pamphlet! It's total bullying and intimidation!!! And I mean who are THEY to tell ME I should even WANT their stupid bj?
ASSHOLES!
Republicans for Fellatio invite all to register to vote today.
DeleteI’m Mitt Romney and I approve of this message.
I'd vote Republican for a complimentary BJ, so long as she doesn't have a snaggle tooth.
DeleteDon't ask.
Anonymous – there’s no conspiracy. There’s no bullying and intimidation. It’s just a bj pure & simple.
DeleteTNP – you can’t vote twice. Besides, you’re already registered.
Hmm - maybe I was wrong. Nothing would surprise me when it comes to American politics.
DeleteAnyway ladies and tiddlywinks - I must be getting on. Nice talking with you as always.
Maybe I will try to register, Ill have to ask some people about the whole process. And yes MP, I do live in Florida.
DeleteDemocrats for Cunnilingus invite all women folk to register to vote today.
DeleteI’m Barack Obama and I definitely approve of this message
Holy Shit! Who decides who runs this country for the next four years could come down to people like Rich the Uber Empath.
DeleteThe greatest empire in the history of the history of the world in the idle hands of some lay-about, jobless junkie.
The game is up. The end is nigh. Every man and woman for him or herself. Abandon ship.
It’s goodnight Vienna everybody.
BTW where do I go register for the free blowjob?
DeleteIt matters not for whom the infidels vote. We are coming for you anyway!
DeleteWell, you CAN go on to the bill clinton website and Click on the penis. My friend is on the WAITLIST !. I mean if this isn't a conspiracy to confuse and frustrate the unregistered.
DeleteSO I went and pushed on the pussy @ eatmeoutamerica.com for my wife and she agreed to go down on me after HER free head.
It's a "family values" republican conspiracy.
A family that go down on each other stays together.
DeleteI’m Mitt Romney and I approve of this message
LMAO @ 4:17 CCFA
DeleteI wanna see the part 2 of "Dick Walters Psychopath Detective" today. I need a nice chuckle!
ReplyDeleteme too.
DeleteAdmittedly I started following Walters P.D and looked forward to the next instalments with much anticipation.
DeleteHowever, I have subsequently realised that Dick Walters doesn’t actually do anything except sit around in his office all day and all night getting fucked-up on drink and drugs.
There’s no car chases, no love interests. Hell, there’s not even any real cases with plot developments and Dashiell Hammett-like twists and turns.
In fact, the ‘women’ that enter into his office are probably just figments of his permanently pissed and stoned imagination.
Walters is not a detective’s asshole, ffs, he’s not even a psychopath.
For my money, I’d rather watch “Monk”. At least he has a real PD.
I would like to commend you all for an extremely entertaining discussion. I am taking a closer look inward and accepting my part in my nightmarish 20-year history ruled by an S. I was entirely way too naive in the beginning. I will never be the same and that may be a very good thing.
ReplyDeleteStik around.
DeleteIt kan git much more interesting;)
We've been looking for that S.
DeleteIf Romney wins your Removal Company will be getting quite a lot of business. Solicit to Big Bird now.
DeleteOnly two years with suspected S. I remember being consumed with love. My body absolutely OD'd on oxytocin. The come down was tragic. Bunch of idiotic crying.
ReplyDeleteWaters pulled up the collar of his trench coat and glanced surreptitiously towards the Cadillac parked nearby as he flicked an unfiltered Camel from the pack and lit up. He'd been hiding in the shadows of a boarded up former Korean take-away for close to two hours in the freezing cold with no sign so far of the elusive ex-IRA drug dealer his latest employer seemed so keen to have him surveil. Close to five hundred per hour keen, and that was big money to Dick Waters. Enough to pay next month's rent as well as keep him in booze, cigs and narcotic substitutes. In fact, thought Waters, if he could stretch this gig out for a few weeks he might not have to settle for substitutes at all. And as Waters' mind drifted into reveries of galloping through fields of poppies astride a white horse he failed to notice his target unlock the caddy, jump in and drive away.
ReplyDelete*clears throat* That's Walters, Dick, PD; not Waters. Ty
DeleteFFS the guy's so off his tits he can't even remember his own name.
DeleteI rest my case.
Walters spluttered with impotent rage as sqealing rubber yanked him back to the chilly doorway. He glanced down with a whimper at his last Camel extinguished where it had fallen into a muddy puddle at his feet. He cursed himself, the old refrain, Worthless, good for nothing junkie; then sneered, lunging from the doorway, fingers between his teeth, whistling down the approaching cab. He'd show them. He'd show them all.
DeleteI'm not holding my breath Walters. When was your last fix? You must be itching to score any time soon.
DeleteWhy are you bothering with this Irish piece of shit anyways?
You're a loser Walters. Just accept it and go do what you do best and mong out.
The towel-head cabbie sniffed, "Walters, you better have enough cash on you to pay, man". Dick waved a finger excitedly in the direction of the fading tail lights, "Fuck it, Ahmed, follow that car!". Dick had been waiting his whole life to say that. He settled back in his seat and smiled as the broken down cab took off in pursuit. The hard four years of community college were finally beginning to pay off.
DeleteWonderful writing, SW Confidential!
DeleteAhmed chuckled derisively as he man-handled the cab around another hairpin bend. "Walters, did this guy rip you off or what?" Dick had known Ahmed since he was barely thirteen. His stepfather had been buying the family's fortnightly bag of weed from Ahmed's cousin since before he and his alcoholic mom even got together. Before he moved in and started to visit Dick's room in the middle of the night...
Delete"Shut up, Ahmed. This time it's the real deal. I'm getting 500 per hour just to follow this terrorist drug dealer guy and take notes". Ahmed frowned and turned his attention back to the lonely isolated road they had been traveling along for the last half hour. He'd always had a terrible sense of forboding when it came to the Walters kid, and something told him this was the moment upon which he would always look back whenever anyone mentioned the name of Dick Walters, PD.
ROFLMAO!!!!! OMG BRILLIANT!!!!!!!! Hilarious!!!!!!! You should be a fucking novelist!
Delete'surreptitiously'? Really?
DeleteA little consistency with your level of vocabulary goes a long way.
Fucking novice.
You are jealous, TNP.
DeleteJealous of that? You must be joking.
DeleteRich wrote that shit. Totally, completely his style. I don't understand why he and Monica haven't had babies yet.
DeleteI would love to have a baby with Monica, but I believe she is married and has children older than me..........
DeleteI didnt write that, as I said before, Iam not that talented, you are overestimating me mate!
It's cheesy noir and you criticize me for surreptitiously? ffs picky much.
DeleteAlso I'd just like to say hi to all my fans :D
This site is so strange. It brings you back more and more. I do like the part about the emotions and a playing field and never looking at emotions the same. Gives me something to think about. Is that the center point to these people, sociopaths, emotions?
ReplyDeleteWalters you dipshit. Your drunken and drugged foibles has ruined it for you again.
ReplyDeleteBaah! I give up.
:) It's not like I write them myself, Iam not that talented! LOL
DeleteReading this stuff about Sociopaths not having egos confuses me. I think the only difference between a sociopath's ego and a normals, is empathy providing a mirror to the normals. Its a self empathy that provides the illusion of psychic-solidity which socios cant have by definition. But in reality, the socio's i have known are every bit as complete in terms of their personalities and beliefs as normals. Its just that they seem to appreciate that in the end its all smoke and mirrors- a thought that terrorizes normals.
ReplyDeleteM.E. this article is so accurate but, also, so fluffy and light hearted.
ReplyDelete"I couldn't focus on being ME, anymore. I had become his host."
I am confused as to why she felt no sorrow or pain from loosing herself. I think the worst thing in life - is to loose yourself.
LOOSING yourself is great, LOSING can be, too. What do you mean?
DeleteSorry, grammar error. I should have used lose; as when you lose your identity.
DeleteAlso, there were other loses - family and friends.
New Theme Song Series
ReplyDeleteTheme for the "victims" of Sociopaths
ReplyDeleteThe management, band members and associated record company executives of the band Skillet would like it noted on public record that we are in no way affiliated with SociopathWorld or its members.
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, we would appreciate it if you no longer use the band's music to promote your 'Themes for SW Regulars'.
Failure to do so may result in future legal proceedings.
Thank you in advance.
That's funny...
DeleteFor fucks sake Themes. CEO is ringing me up wondering what the hell is going on. And apparently M.E is livid.
ReplyDeleteYou don't think it's busy enough here at SociopathWorld head office without the added headache of dealing with Skillet's legal representatives, and now CEO busting my balls.
Give it up with the Skillet FFS!
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/give+it+up
Delete
ReplyDeleteOff to Evanesence.
Oh ha ha ha hardy fucking ha - it's just one big fucking joke to you.
DeleteWell, you obviously don't know how hard we work behind the scenes for you whack-jobs.
Fuck, the phones ringing off the fucking Richter scale.
Thanks alot. Have a nice day. Dick.
Woah - chill out dude. Themes didn't mean anything by saying that.
DeleteChillax
I was with a socio and I didn't realize what I was dealing with. I was in "love" and I didn't want to see reality I always saw him through rosé tinted glasses..looking back I realize I was like a zombie paralyzed with Stockholm syndrome
ReplyDeleteHaha, what a load of fluff.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone else notice that this is such an "englightened" response because it also happens to feed directly in the much desired narcissistic supply?
I learned quite a lot living with my Narc Ex for so long. I learned how to defend and prepare myself against that kind of manipulation and attack. I do think I'm a stronger person for having experienced it.
But does that justify his behavior at the time? No. Just because he can doesn't mean he had the right. Once I realized what to look for, all that supposed superiority was became a cheap game. Masks with emptiness behind. In the end all he was, was still just a supreme asshole. Not much more.
He desensitized me, made me stronger, made me cold..I can never be the innocent girl, trusting, naive, now I manipulate, engage in things without remorse, toy with men and I enjoy it;-) he changed me....but then again this world we live in is not made for the innocent is it?
ReplyDeleteTheme Music for SW Literature Series
ReplyDeleteMusical Score for Dick Walters PD
DeleteNow that several people referred to 'their' socio...
ReplyDeleteDid your socio indeed talk about money, sex, and food the majority of the time? If you took the great sex away, would you still have stayed 'in love' with your socio?
Was he manipulating you or were you using him/her for sex in his mind?
Hi, Haven.
ReplyDeleteYou had mentioned that you were afraid of death.
Afraid of what? The process of dying? Fearing pain? Possibility of hell afterwards? Felling more pain?
I am always curious, what about death scares people. The fear of unknown? The fear of loss of control?
I'm an atheist. I guess it's a fear of the void? Idk. As far as I'm concerned there is no heaven, there is no hell, there is absolutely nothing. The end.
DeleteIf I'm not alive, there's no point, there's no feeling, there's just nothing.
I guess it's silly to be afraid of 'nothing', but I'd rather be immersed in all the somethings.
Haven,
DeleteIt is the first time you are sort of speechless. Maybe you are not afraid.
I am used to your being very articulate and aware.
I read Monica's relating to 'having lived' discussion below. Yes, some people may feel they need more time to spend on this earth and accordingly may fear death consciously and unconsciously. SOme people, especially those with children, may feel they still owe to life. These are relatively practical reasons. It's the irrational fear or the fear of pain that I am interested to hear about if anyone can articulate.
I'm not afraid of pain. Pain reminds me I'm alive. Experiencing reminds me that I'm alive.
DeleteIt's weird. I love being human, but I hate being human. My therapist/psychiatrist calls that my extremely ambiguous mentally.
What is the point of life if you are not here to experience it? I believe I am nothing in the scope of the universe, and everything. If you attempt to contemplate the vastness of just this universe, my place in it is utterly insignificant. I really have very little ego. Ego means nothing to me. However. Without me, here, to experience, nothing matters to me at all. I am the center of my own universe because without me, there's no ability to care about anything else.
Sorry I can't humor your interests in a fear of pain. Pain isn't my problem. Pain means I'm still alive.
Interesting. I somehow think of pain as the first step to significant loss of life. When there is pain I cannot live because everything I do is positive and high energy and done best in the absence of pain.
DeleteTo associate pain with being alive suggests a very dead life, emotionally. I now understand better your positioning in your own mind. To me you are a beautiful woman who can dance freely and should have no need of pain to feel alive. Just dancing should be able to make you feel alive. Maybe it does, not sure. Are you more alive in the presence of negative emotions? So hard for me to relate, I may not be making any sense to you.
It's not necessarily that I'm more alive in the presence of negative emotion, but I don't discriminate. It's the ability to experience that is the focus. Positive or negative both mean you're alive. I'd rather be in ecstasy than in pain, no question, but even in pain I can see a silver lining (though I'd rather not have to). Maybe I'm silly for it.
DeleteWe have different experiences with pain and that's okay. What you experience is real to you.
I wanted to talk about Haven's post on fear of death. I think people who feel they have never lived as an authentic self have the biggest fears of death. I would fall in this category.
ReplyDeleteWhat must it be like, Monica, to have someone be attracted to your mind not your face, body or tits. To find your inner self, your essence, the unique you compeling. Is that the foundation of true acceptance and love?
DeleteI have never been in that position, so I really could not say :D
Delete"I think people who feel they have never lived as an authentic self have the biggest fears of death."
DeleteWay to invalidate the reasons and experience of anyone that isn't you by saying their fears aren't as great.
I didn't say that at all, Haven. You misinterpreted that.
DeleteI said that the fear of DEATH seems to be greatest in those who do not feel they have lived a life in which they have been true to themselves i.e authentic.
Whaaaa?
DeleteIs that not the same thing?
I agree with Monica.
DeleteI see your point Monica, but I think you're also missing mine.
DeleteHey there Medusa. Long time.
DeletePlease, explain your point to me, Haven. Did you think I was saying my fears are worse than anyone's? If so, I was not.
DeleteHello Haven. How are you?
DeleteI do think you misread Monica's comment. I didn't see her as invalidating anything. I saw her as trying to do the opposite, actually. But you talk about feeling invalidated by what she said, how so? Did you take her comment as a personal attack? Do your fears need validation? You say she missed your point... well I guess so did I so if you want to clarify...
But anyway. To me, fear of death is the same thing as fear of life.
You said exactly that, actually.
DeleteYou said... the greatest fears come from people like this... which I would classify myself as....
You have no way of putting yourself in the shoes of another person that fears death in the extreme, in the shoes (or lack thereof) of a person that doesn't understand the concept of "authentic self", only that their life is in peril or that they've lost someone that means everything in this world to them. You can not quantify as "greatest" what you do not feel in another.
You have no way of putting yourself in the shoes of another person that fears death in the extreme, in the shoes (or lack thereof) of a person that doesn't understand the concept of "authentic self"
DeleteBut she just said that she does because she has been and/or is this way herself...
You can not quantify as "greatest" what you do not feel in another.
You seem to be translating her usage of the word 'greatest' as some kind of self-aggrandizement or competition? That's kind of fucked up. 'Greatest' at fearing everything... yay? You took a statement of empathy towards people such as yourself and turned it into a pain competition. Why?
I'm doing better Medusa. I don't fear life. I fear the loss of being able to experience my life. It's okay. We're all allowed to have our own opinions.
DeleteI didn't take her opinion as a person attack until I thought about it in retrospect. In some ways I hate my PD, but in others I love it. It can be so painful, but it's also so alive. I love that I live. I love that I experience. Death. Is nothing. I don't believe a person is every complete, ever truly fulfilled as long as they are still living, still experiencing. There is no completion of personality for me, so I don't think it's finding that absolute authentic self is every a determinant point. It's always growing, it's always changing.
I see you and Erin/Monica have apparently become friends. I've been out of the loop working on my own stuff for a while. Missed the logic there. I'm just taking things as I see them for now.
I didn't see this as any kind of competition or personalization at all actually?
DeleteI wasn't thinking of myself at all when I contemplated that others might feel intensely about their own death in a way that has nothing to do with what Monica expressed.
That Monica feels the way she does is completely okay. But it's not for anyone to judge on some kind of sliding scale who feels greatest or least about the thoughts of death. A person is allowed to feel about death, how they feel about death. Regardless of their reasons. Greatest or least doesn't matter.
My beeper sister also says she is happy in pain and sadness. Curious how much happier she'd get if her son died? What do you think Haven? Would that make you feel alive and experiencing life?
DeleteAnon you're an idiot. That's what I feel.
DeleteI don't think it's finding that absolute authentic self is every a determinant point.
DeleteBut how would you know that, seeing as that you don't know what it even means or what it feels like?
The authentic self does change and grow. Otherwise it's not an authentic self if it can't.
I see you and Erin/Monica have apparently become friends.
What does whether Monica and I are 'friends' or not have to do with it? This tells me that you were attacking Monica because she is Monica, more so than because of anything she said. You don't have to be up on the 'gossip' to take content at face value.
Haven, read your own statements, what I said logically follows. Don't beep without analysis of your self.
DeleteThanks Anon. Don't care.
DeleteMedusa... Clearly I shouldn't respond on my phone with autocorrect b/c my grammar becomes fucked.
What I don't understand, is how you can judge what I feel or understand.
I agree that the authentic self can change and grow. I believe that it should. There is no set point. For me, personally, I believe I will never be complete, because to be complete means that I can never continue to grow. The authentic self should change and grow. I'm not sure how you gleaned that I believed otherwise.
I don't really give a shit about Monica one way or the other. You don't need to create problems where they don't exist.
No one is 'judging' what anyone feels here except you...
DeleteAnon's questions and statements are valid. Your 'don't care' is nothing more than feigned arrogance serving as a wall between you and yourself.
I'm allowed to not care what anyone else thinks of me. It's not arrogance, it's just a statement of being. If you knew me at all, I have very little sense of arrogance.
DeleteWhether I'm right or wrong in your eyes or opinion doesn't matter much to me. I'm figuring life out as I got along.
Whether you approve of my opinions or not? Means very little. I"m not really sure what your problem with me is, but I guess it doesn't matter.
To say no one is judging but me? is false. To judge is to form any opinion and state it with authority. Making a stand against how I feel is a statement. I've certainly made my own judgements. I may be wrong. I may be right. Ultimately it doesn't really matter...as long as something beneficial comes from it.
I don't have a problem with you Haven, I really don't. I like you. The only problem I have is frustration at watching you suffer irrationally.
DeleteI'm allowed to not care what anyone else thinks of me. It's not arrogance
It's a fine line that most can't detect in themselves. Being oneself is not an act of defiance, nor is it a declaration. It just is. Arrogance, on the other hand, only comes about relative to other people.
I can believe that you don't come off as immediately arrogant in real life, but I don't care. Here, you are coming off as arrogant, and you are doing so for a reason that is very real, and it's obviously very defensive, as you have said so yourself.
And man, isn't that the biggest lie you've ever told, that you don't care what people think of you. Sounds me to me more like you feel you ought to not care what people think of you and that's where your shame comes in.
I never said I don't care what anyone thinks of me. I certainly care what some people think of me. Fortunately none of those people happen to be here.
DeleteMedusa, dear. I appreciate your frustration on my behalf, but let me make my own mistakes or not, as I will. You're not my therapist, what I show is not all of my, and you do not know the majority of me. If you think I'm arrogant, that's fine. arrogance is supposedly an offensive display of superiority or self-importance or overbearing pride. I don't feel any of that, but if you somehow see it, well, that's your perspective.
I've lied to myself plenty in my life. Now is not my time for that. You who claim to have followed my internet movements should probably have noticed that.
I'm not saying you are an arrogant person. I am saying you are acting like an arrogant person. Walls up. Protection shield. Deflectors. Anti-aircraft missles.
DeletePerhaps arrogant is the wrong word, but defensiveness isn't really all that different from arrogance in effect. Both are still the result pride, feigned or not.
Also, do you notice you keep adjusting your opinions with each response to one that looks better for you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjpDEnCej6A&feature=related
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-Vw2yt-Vn8&feature=related
ReplyDeleteAnon, You just made my parenting job much, much easier. Just show the flippin' video. I did lots of drugs in the 80s but stayed away from heroin because of one extremely provocative poster. Images more than words.
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhjwUR2SeAE&feature=related
ReplyDeletewho's the ceo of Scientology
ReplyDeleteIt's discussed at length in "The Psychopath Test" by Ronson, although I remember very little except for that they're nutfreaky.
DeleteHello Monica :) <3
ReplyDeleteThe first thing to heal a PD( and really heal it, not just talk about healing it) is to come out of disassociation. I think PD's stay stagnant( even for a lifetime) because the individuals with the PDs cannot learn from mistakes, due to disassociation.
ReplyDeleteWhat this means, in simple terms, is that the person is too "out of it" i.e. detached from himself, to learn the lessons that life offers.
When this happens, the person will have a kind of emotional immaturity that is the essence of the PD, perhaps.
It is not the person's fault that he cannot change/grow/mature. He is not capable of real change, as long as the PD numbs him to himself.
Citation required
DeleteI would have thought that you yourself would've make a good citation, although time will tell.
DeleteAre you completely retarded? Do you even understand what dissociation is? Or how difficult it is to change this? It's not a conscious choice. It's not a matter of saying, hey, I recognize this is faulty behavior, I'm going to change it now. I've been able to do THAT most of my life. To not dissociate is a completely different thing.
DeleteDepending on the type of dissociation, a person can be very capable of "checking in", knowing what is going on in their life, cognitively, but not emotionally. Then again if it's a more severe type of dissociation, a fugue state or DID switch, this is not a simple matter.
Don't reduce it, as if it is.
"he cannot change/grow/mature"
Deleteinitial reaction was to agree with grow and mature but not change...
"He is not capable of real change, as long as the PD numbs him to himself."
Right... got it.
Haven,
DeleteYour demonstrative could be seen as a case in point... but I do LOVE your vigor.
::laughs:: I do see your point. Amusingly I agree with the point stated in part... having suffered with this particular problem... the issue is writing it off as if it's something to merely get over. It's not. It's a severe issue that can be potentially irreversible.
DeleteAbsolutely, and from what I have seen Heals knows this. I think what Heals tries to show is that the answer is so simple it might actually be impossible... that's what I get from Heals anyway. What I try to do with that info is apply a little better introspection in order to try and be a better me. I will never be perfect but I don't have to be lazy...
DeleteLet me make this clear
DeleteI UNDERSTAND HOW SEVERE DISASSOCIATION CAN BE---any.
That is why I struggle so hard to heal it, as I do believe it can be healed, contrary to orthodox psychiatry, perhaps.
I believe everything can heal--mental, emotional and spiritual, without allopathic medicine.
It's also an issue when they say "It is not the person's fault that he cannot change/grow/mature. He is not capable of real change, as long as the PD numbs him to himself."
DeleteAs if it's not something that can't or shouldn't be worked on. These How to help a PD things are ridiculously over simplified, probably do more harm than good, by making issues seem minimal, instead of the psychologically detrimental problems they actually are.
It's not a conscious choice.
DeletePrecisely why it's so hard for you to change. I hope you know I'm not trying to attack you, but you do see yourself as a victim of who you are. As long as you feel that way, then yes, it will never be a conscious choice.
Tom I think trying to apply any kind of psychiatry or psychology to a general audience is a problem when it doesn't take the nuance of a persons personality and experience into consideration.
DeleteHaven
DeleteStop for a moment from all your verbiage. I don't say this to be mean, but you see all the trees and lose any semblance of the forest. Healing is not as abstruse as you make it.
Don't speak to me of stopping the verbiage as you use your own.
DeleteI am in a constant state of reflection and self-scrutinization. My problem is that I see all of the forest and thing that you are over-simplifying and not taking into account the difficulties that all the different "trees" might have to deal with.
Healing is not a simple process. I applaud anyone that does have a more straight-forward time of it. However it is not always easy, and I would hate to give anyone a false sense that if it does not come simply to them, that it can not be healed at all.
Dissociation can shift, too...morphing from one lift to another. Lifting out of whatever is not desired. Period. I have had the aspects of all the "PD"s at different times - dissociation helps me in life (in fact it saved my life, right? saved my something - it's a coping mechanism, that is well agreed)- now it has morphed again and I am so, so grateful. It was tiresome, being the other. Dissociation rocks.
DeleteMy bloodlust is seemingly cured, and I have changed, but I don't think I'd attribute breaking dissociation with the credit.
DeleteIt's also to assume I had a personality disorder to begin with, which I suspect I didn't truly have - simply adapted behavior from my environment.
But, yes. Time will tell.
Dissociation is a defense mechanism for a reason. It's' necessary for the psyche at some point. If a person is still experiencing situations that trigger dissociation, then it's not necessarily the time to try and "heal" it. It's a problem, when it takes effect when it is no longer a problem.
DeleteI've also been very grateful for my dissociation at times. Now, however, I don't really need it.
I am in a constant state of reflection and self-scrutinization. My problem is that I see all of the forest
DeleteNo, your problem is the first part, and to me that is pretty clear as day. As to the second, you don't see 'all of the forest'. At all. At least in part due to the first part. You see a very flat version of the forest, in two dimensions. An abstract one. Not the real one.
Neat Medusa. It's cool that you know me so well after having such non-existent interaction with me for months. Your opinion is super valid. Except that it's not, at all, when it comes to me. Thanks anyways.
DeleteI keep up on your blog.
DeleteAnd twitter.
DeleteAw, I have a fan. Then you know I'm still working on my issues. I'm still changing, I'm still growing, I'm still healing. You should probably also realize that I am very self-aware of what I put into print... which corresponds well with what I put on my blog ;)
DeleteI write about things, talk about things, that I don't necessarily experience anymore. It's an interesting juxtaposition. I've felt them before, want to raise awareness of how it feels to experience those things, but don't currently experience them anymore due to the work I've put into myself. Maybe I should put that into a post. Just to clarify.
DeleteThroughout my healing, and growing as a person, I'm going to continue blogging about the things I've suffered through with BPD, even if I no longer struggle the way I used to.
I know you are working very hard and I know you are serious about it.
DeleteYou should probably also realize that I am very self-aware of what I put into print
I don't understand what this means. Aren't most people aware of what it is they are writing? Isn't that a given?
I write about things, talk about things, that I don't necessarily experience anymore.
DeleteI'm sorry, but you know this is not true.
Bah, some people put any bullshit into print. Don't you have a facebook? The people on my RL facebook put the dumbest crap as their status' (via twitter) constantly. They don't give a shit that no one cares how much they love their bf, what they had for dinner, or didn't love their dog's grooming.
DeleteI'm very aware that what I publish is only concerning things that are relatively ambiguous and display how I cope with my "Borderline" behavior.
People know what they write, obviously, but in terms of what I do concerning my blog, is a different level of awareness.
It's also only tailored to my Borderline struggles and general issues. I tend to keep all other issues, options, political ideologies, and whatnot out of that arena. Perhaps I shouldn't.
Deleteoptions = opinions
DeleteYour rationalizations are very weak and transparent.
Delete"I write about things, talk about things, that I don't necessarily experience anymore.
DeleteI'm sorry, but you know this is not true."
I'm sorry, Are you me? Some things I absolutely still struggle with. Other things? Not so much, and not at all. I just broke up with someone that I was with for a year. I'm coping pretty well, according to my therapist. Last time I did that, I was in the Psych ER. Shit happens. I'm actually doing quite well.
What I do on my blog, is not just for me anymore. I started out that way, but it morphed into something that helps a lot of people. I'm may not love what I've gone through, but I do like that my experiences help people that are experiencing something similar.
Even though I'm actively healing, doesn't mean I don't remember, and can't still blog about things I've been through.
Transparent? Whatever Medusa. I'm not really trying to attack anyone here. I'm going to be myself. If you don't like it? Fuck you. Don't care that much.
DeleteI don't doubt that you have improved in many ways.
DeleteBut, I have been curious why you decided to come back here immediately after breaking up with Tech Boy.
Healing is not a simple process. I applaud anyone that does have a more straight-forward time of it. However it is not always easy, and I would hate to give anyone a false sense that if it does not come simply to them, that it can not be healed at all.
DeleteEasy? No. I have sobbed so hard I thought I would break. No, it is a journey for those who have no place else to go, as the past holds nothing. One must want it so badly that one would run a marathon with one leg.
It is pain beyond imagining.
Because I now have less of an active social life and more time to spend on the internet?
DeleteIt's fun here. I love it here. My on-line internet/gaming time is significantly lessened when I'm in an active relationship though.
DeleteI believe there is more to it than that, Haven. All of us here know that to some extent, consciously or not.
DeleteAnd Healo, I do think it's a simple process. Very simple. But it's not easy. There's a difference betwixt the two.
What you believe? Is not my actual life experience, so I don't know what to tell you.
DeleteI've been extremely, extremely busy in my RL. I've barely been able to keep up with my own blog, which aside for my RL, is my priority. I've felt extremely guilty when my work or my life has gotten in the way of my writing, but it has been happening. If I can't keep up with that, which is extremely important to me... keeping up with personal attacks at sociopath world just isn't going to rank as high.
Yes, healing is simple, but not easy and so painful that few will enter it's gates. Only those who know that hell lies behind, so there is no going back.
DeleteMaybe it's surprising to you, but what I do, isn't necessary to my experience in this particular forum.
DeleteHealing is as simple and as hard as death. It is death. You have to die.
DeleteFear of death is fear of life.
Your platitudes are beautiful.
DeleteHeh, you just reminded me of the Missus there.
DeleteI am in a constant state of reflection and self-scrutinization. My problem is that I see all of the forest
DeleteNo, your problem is the first part, and to me that is pretty clear as day. As to the second, you don't see 'all of the forest'. At all. At least in part due to the first part. You see a very flat version of the forest, in two dimensions. An abstract one. Not the real one.
This is very interesting. I think I'm permanently dissociated and I do this reflection and self-scrutinization thing too. I wonder if there comes a point where mindfulness crumbles into self-obsession.
Perhaps. I'm not in that kind of self-reflection though. In a forum like this where there is a need to constantly defend yourself because people or permanently judgmental it seems like you HAVE TO BE in a state of self-obsession. But maybe the problem is the forum, and not necessarily how we view ourselves.
DeleteI just broke up with someone that I was with for a year. I'm coping pretty well ...
Delete... In a forum like this where there is a need to constantly defend yourself
I'd say people are reacting to you the way they are because you're not coping as well as you'd like to be. That's perhaps why you'rereally here again.
I wonder if there comes a point where mindfulness crumbles into self-obsession.
DeleteMost definitely.
Haven,
In a forum like this where there is a need to constantly defend yourself because people or permanently judgmental it seems like you HAVE TO BE in a state of self-obsession.
This is you in a nutshell. This is you in life.
I wonder, can you see how with this philosophy you are damaging yourself?
I don't know where to share these things, but here.
ReplyDeleteI had a weird experience. A girl was talking to me about her life and telling me about her husband. It popped into my mind that her husband was her enemy. I told her. As the convo went on, she saw it was true, but she could never see it before because he was a minister, so she did not imbue him with bad motives *sigh*
Anyway, the weird thing was that I saw the enemies in my life. All of a sudden, I could see beneath the veil.
Last night, before I went to sleep, I realized that everyone is bad, which was one of my biggies, as you know if you have seen my posts.
Thanks Medusa
DeleteWe have been through a lot, together! xx
Original Theme Song Series
ReplyDeleteOriginal Theme for Medusa
DeleteThank you :)
DeleteOriginal Theme Song Series
ReplyDeleteOriginal Theme for Haven <3
DeleteLove you Themes!
DeleteAww Love you, too Haven!
ReplyDeleteHey SW! Announcement! In my RL I'm actually extremely exhausted. I'd hate for anyone to thing that I'm not responding to further commentary because of any other reason besides I've been working 12 hours today and the few hours I've been home it's apparently been necessary to defend myself here? So goodnight. Maybe I'll see you tomorrow. Fair warning, I do actually have plans, so I might not be as available as some people would have you think.
ReplyDeleteit's apparently been necessary to defend myself here?
DeleteIt is? Why?
Not at all really.
DeleteBut if you're really a sociopath you won't laugh at this even a little. Just saying.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/expresident/greatest-animal-photobombers-of-all-time
You don't need to defend yourself to anyone here, Haven. Especially not the two who have been on your ass all day. You speak from life experience. They speak from theory. You are an admirable person. Go get some rest.
DeleteTo say either of us have no life experience is laughable and no one would agree with you.
DeleteSure.
Deletekeep trying UKan. someday youll find it, the rainbow connection.
DeleteMy ex is a socio and it hurt like hell when I left him but I learned some great ways to fuck with other guys. Literally and figuratively. :p..
ReplyDeletegold star.
DeleteFear of death is fear of life.
ReplyDeleteThis is brilliant!