I've said before that I use principles of economic efficiency to substitute for my pygmy moral compass. For interpersonal relationships, though, efficiency doesn't work as well. Instead I rely on loyalty. I am fiercely loyal. I am quick to adopt someone else's reality for the sake of the relationship. I never blame things on the other person when something goes wrong. I always assume that there was something I could have done better. It's why I can seem so devoted, a perfect mate. When the other person criticizes me, I am not offended, rather I gratefully welcome the feedback as additional information on which to base my behavior. I'm only as good as the information I receive.
I will, however, get very angry when I am not criticized, but rather rejected. It is one thing to say that I made a bad decision, or that you don't like it when I make certain jokes, or whatever it is that you find offensive about my behavior. It is quite another thing to think that I am a bad person, that you are disgusted with me, or appalled, or can't understand why I could ever think that my behavior was acceptable. If your feelings about me change from occasional annoyance or hurt to blanket disapproval, then you are no longer on my team. If you are no longer on my team, then there is nothing insulating you from my anger. And I am angry. If you have rejected who I am, I will have to fight back a white hot feeling of rage. I lose control in the rage.
The people who are able to talk me down from the rage and make things better, who watch after me and make sure I don't hurt myself or others -- those people are my inner circle. I don't really wish for fame, fortune, success, or whatever. But I do sometimes wish I could do more for those who show the same amount of loyalty to me that I show to them.
I will, however, get very angry when I am not criticized, but rather rejected. It is one thing to say that I made a bad decision, or that you don't like it when I make certain jokes, or whatever it is that you find offensive about my behavior. It is quite another thing to think that I am a bad person, that you are disgusted with me, or appalled, or can't understand why I could ever think that my behavior was acceptable. If your feelings about me change from occasional annoyance or hurt to blanket disapproval, then you are no longer on my team. If you are no longer on my team, then there is nothing insulating you from my anger. And I am angry. If you have rejected who I am, I will have to fight back a white hot feeling of rage. I lose control in the rage.
The people who are able to talk me down from the rage and make things better, who watch after me and make sure I don't hurt myself or others -- those people are my inner circle. I don't really wish for fame, fortune, success, or whatever. But I do sometimes wish I could do more for those who show the same amount of loyalty to me that I show to them.
What is loyalty when at the first sign of rejection youre out?
ReplyDeleteBut I might get it. I am very loyal myself as long as people let me just be and dont tire me too much.
" it is quite another thing to think that i am a bad person, you are disgusted with me, you are appalled, you can't understand why i could ever think that my behavior was acceptable."
ReplyDeleteI couldn't have put it better myself. I hate being compared to an animal, a robot, a machine, or a monster.
Fierce loyalty… Hmmm. I can’t say that I’m fiercely loyal. I am kinda loyal. I’ve never been put to the test per se, although I have left a series of people in my life without looking back, people who said they cared about me and valued my presence in their lives, so maybe that means I’m not loyal. (I was told later that some of these people were hurt to the point of tears, but I wasn’t aware of any of that at the time.) Or maybe it means I’m loyal in a ‘situational’ way. For example, at work I have my “allies” and I’m loyal to them. It’s just that this loyalty has not been severely tested. To be honest, I’m pretty sure that if it came down to something I desire and if that desire crossed purposes with my allegiance to my work “allies” for instance, I’d go with the desire. It depends on the desire I guess. I’ve never given loyalty a whole lot of thought until now.
ReplyDeleteI make a passable attempt at loyalty to about 4 or 5 people. Everyone else can fuck off, and they shouldn't expect me to be loyal. It's not that I automatically dislike people - it's just usually something happens that requires me to betray them at some point, and I have no qualms with that. If people are upset, then that's something they have to deal with, usually, and I'm rarely interested. If it's someone I care about, however, I don't like to upset them, it makes me feel weird and I would much rather cut out the middle man and just be as loyal as I can be.
ReplyDeleteI am having a bad day today. I seem to have woken up in a fucking foul mood.
FD
ReplyDeleteAnything I could say to dislodge the foulness even more? hehe.
No but seriously where does your foulness come from today.
I had it the other day and and it took me quite some time to figure out what was bugging me and how to finish/get rid of it. Btw I dont worry either, I just like to think a lot and figure things out.
Disney - I don't know, really. I woke up, again, in this place, and I just thought "I've had enough of this" and then I realised just how trapped I was because there is absolutely nothing I can do to get out sooner. It's not even as if I'm in here because they think I'm dangerous - they just think there's something they can do, and they put me in here because they felt fucking sorry for me and didn't want to see me go to prison, because they believed I didn't deserve to go there. Fair enough, thanks for that. But, to be blunt, I am now in a situation where I wouldn't go to prison anyway because the other person has decided to drop the charges. So why am I still in here? Because they think they can bloody help me. I'm yet again caught up in the mental health system for no apparent reason.
ReplyDeleteAlso - I got ANOTHER letter from my ex-girlfriend today. Not the one I like, the one who mothered my child. This made me angry because I do not know why she is insisting on keeping contact with me, when I have made it so obviously clear that I in no circumstances want to see her ridiculous little face any more.
I suppose I feel like a monkey in a zoo. Being looked at and tested, but with no escape. And I can't make a phone call for another week or so now. Who to call, eh?
The good news is, I'm allowed visitors sooner than I thought so I can see a couple of friends, and maybe The Woman if she can be bothered with me.
Also - I really want a drink. I haven't gone this long without a drink in a very long time, and I want to either be off of these drugs, or on some more interesting ones. Rather just none at all. My head is fuzzy from all of the sedation and it is a bit unpleasant. They told me they are doing this to make me more compliant in therapy because, apparently, I have a tendency to be condescending and intimidating to my therapist. Who gave her all the fucking power? Who said to her that she - because she is too weak and cowardly - must use drugs against me in order to feel better about herself during our therapy sessions?
Lots of things. I feel incredibly pent up and I would like to go for a long walk but I can't, because that isn't allowed either. So I have to sit here for at least another two / three weeks - if I play my cards right - eating this disgusting food when I could be in a restaurant, drinking this orange juice when I could be drinking whisky and talking to an autistic guy and a paranoid schizophrenic instead of being back home, where I can do whatever I please.
It's going to be so hard to not go overboard when I get out of here. I don't want to end up straight back in.
FD’s comment reminds me a little of the time I was in the military, going thru boot camp. I remember being in one of the buildings, alone in an office and looking out the window. I saw a short hill, some train tracks, and a street beyond the fence. I kept thinking all I had to do was walk right out and into civilization again. I wanted to so badly because boot camp is a bizarre place to be and I was feeling very unhappy with my choice at the time. I didn’t because I wasn’t sure what the consequences would be for myself if I left and was later caught. Later, I ended up telling some of the doctors down in Pensacola, FL that I was going to kill myself if they didn’t let me out. Since it was within the 6 month time period, they let me out on an administrative discharge. I hated feeling trapped, especially when you're surrounded by and under the "authority" of people you consider imbeciles.
ReplyDeleteFD
ReplyDeleteEven though I would feel the same, I think the only way to look at it is its the best moment to practice patience and what not, which will come in handy for the rest of your life.
Why do you let your childs mother irritate you. You could just be, how does one say it, business like, to her. Youre doomed to see her ridiculous face anyhow for the rest of your life cause of the kid. Wouldnt it save you a lot of trouble ( many times over) if you can just start to have the simplest detached clear cut but agreeable relationship with her? Or else she might just remained attached to you with all the unpleasant byproducts of that.
I think its pretty pointless too that they serve you drugs to function better at therapy. From what I know therapy is pointless for 100% sure when the person undergoing the therapy isnt interested in the first place.
From the way I look at therapists, 99% of them are not after any kind of power over you, they just want to feel like they are helping you or something like that. Im assuming she is a woman and not really playing games or manipulative?
Daniel Birdick - You're right, and these people are imbeciles. I actually despise the decision that they feel they must drug me in order for me to get along with their ideas. And at this point I'm starting to feel like I know a lot more about my therapist than she knows about me, and she doesn't like that.
ReplyDeleteThe aim of this therapy is for me to understand how people see me in relation to how I see myself. I think I have a damn good idea about how people view me, and how I view myself. I don't care if people don't like me, nor do I particularly care if they do, and I think my therapist would really like me to just forget that mindset I've had all of my life.
Anyway. I've been trying my best to comply, and emulate the character of a Changed Man. *crosses off another day on the calendar*.
Daniel Birdick - You're right, and these people are imbeciles. I actually despise the decision that they feel they must drug me in order for me to get along with their ideas. And at this point I'm starting to feel like I know a lot more about my therapist than she knows about me, and she doesn't like that.
ReplyDeleteThe aim of this therapy is for me to understand how people see me in relation to how I see myself. I think I have a damn good idea about how people view me, and how I view myself. I don't care if people don't like me, nor do I particularly care if they do, and I think my therapist would really like me to just forget that mindset I've had all of my life.
Anyway. I've been trying my best to comply, and emulate the character of a Changed Man. *crosses off another day on the calendar*.
Disney - She is a woman, and she has decided she doesn't like me. We don't have a good relationship. She pretends that she's getting along with me, like she's my friend, but when I look into her eyes I can see absolutely everything she is thinking. That's one of the great gifts of this thing - I know when people are lying. She talks about me like I've just drifted through life with a great amount of ease, and she detests my type and she detests that I have ever had money because she feels I don't deserve it. She also dives in a little too soon, and guesses things about me that are not true, her powers of perception are awful compared to mine. And yet, I know that she is recently divorced, has probably two children (one is an adult now, and female, and one is probably about 14 and male, given the way she acts and what she wears, and how she talks to me, subconsciously slipping into her different roles), and that this isn't what she originally wanted to do with her life, that she started this career late and now HAS to work with people like me before she can do what she actually wants to do which is probably something a lot tamer.
ReplyDeleteBut I'm just guessing. Although she seemed incredibly unnerved when I pointed these things out to her a couple of weeks ago.
The thing about the other woman is I still carry a lot of contempt for her for daring to get pregnant. It was her fault, she lied about being on the pill, and she also fucked up partially my relationship with The Woman, and she is constantly trying to aggravate her. The fact that she is so dull also irritates me, her every word sounds like white noise to me.
I really don't know why I allow myself to get bothered by her, but I think it's got something to do with how much I don't respect her. She has given me a thousand reasons to not respect her, and yet she still hangs around me like she loves me, after everything I've done to piss her off. Sheer indifference doesn't work, so she just winds me up. I don't actively hate her - and I have to reiterate to everyone around me that I would never hurt her (I don't have any violent spark towards women whatsoever- i find it abhorrent), but then I would happily set fire to her car.
I like to consider myself loyal when I commit to it, but after giving it some extra thought, I don't think loyalty means the same thing to me as it does most people.
ReplyDeleteFor example, I lie to and happily interfere in the affairs of people I'm "loyal" to. I'll destroy something they love, if it gets in the way of my desires or security, or if I think it's bad for them. I'll do this without ever telling them I'm bothered or I think it's bad for them, of course.
Let's say someone else is starting to gain influence with them, and this person is important to them. I'll systematically sabotage their relationship until this influence is gone, and more often than not, my "friend" hates this person that they once adored. Sometimes it's because I don't like losing control over them (and over myself by extension), and sometimes, it's because I detect the tentacles of power this new person is unnaturally wrapping around my "friend," and I don't trust them to look out for me or my friend. I guess it all boils down to the same thing, but there is a shade of difference there.
However I am loyal in the sense that I won't abandon those close to me outright. Even if I get angry and frustrated and can't even stand talking to them, I'll always keep tabs on them, maintain at least some dialogue, and look out for their best interests when it doesn't directly conflict with mine.
So, in that sense, I am loyal. But I don't think that's the traditional meaning of the word.
M.E. what's your stance on hypocrisy? Are you hypocritical in your views on hypocrisy itself? You don't like others branding you unworthy, yet based on other posts you've made, you do the same to others quite frequently. Do you criticize the people in your life when they need it? Or do you simply reject them if you don't like who they are? Have you ever stopped to consider what the essential difference is between you rejecting others, and others rejecting you?
Let's say someone else is starting to gain influence with them, and this person is important to them. I'll systematically sabotage their relationship until this influence is gone, and more often than not, my "friend" hates this person that they once adored. Sometimes it's because I don't like losing control over them (and over myself by extension), and sometimes, it's because I detect the tentacles of power this new person is unnaturally wrapping around my "friend," and I don't trust them to look out for me or my friend. I guess it all boils down to the same thing, but there is a shade of difference there.
ReplyDeleteI like you, PP.
Addendum to my last post:
ReplyDeleteFor that matter, do you care what the difference is? If you find the time, I'd really appreciate reading about your views on the essential hypocrisy inherent to sociopathy, and how you rationalize it, or if you bother to rationalize it at all. I don't think you've ever touched on that in your blog, at least not directly.
FD
ReplyDeletethat sucks. i think getting pregnant when you know beforehand it might not be welcome to the father is really LOW. another reason to use condoms though.
how do you plan on not having that shitty relationship not impact your kid? cant you just tell her you wish her the best ( i know thats always my thing, but it works) but you just want normal contact only about the kid and NOTHING else. and than you have to make sure you stick with that and have a zero tolerance attitude to any communication that isnt helping your kid?
who cares about that stupid therapist? or what she is or isnt up to. figuring her out doesnt really matter. cant you think of things you could need from her and ask her to help you with that or something.
Disney - Yeah she's a foul woman. I hate using condoms, and if someone gives me an excuse not to, I simply won't. I have to say that physical passion is my biggest weakness.
ReplyDeleteWith regards to my son, I don't let him see it. I didn't want us to be together after he was born, I just thought we could be like any other family with separated parents. She made that hard for me, though, because she wanted us to play families with me - of course she did, why else would she get pregnant.
When I refused, she made it really hard for me to see my son. I just don't want her making things this hard for me.
And my therapist - I had a therapist, and I liked her. We got on well, she seemed to help me. But this new one just pisses me off. Again, I can't seem to help myself. I want her to know how it feels to have everything you do scrutinised. Also, if she's going to cheat by using medication against me then I can never respect her.
You know FD, this is good stuff. I’ve never been in any of these positions you describe, so it’s like looking into a whole other world. Naturally, I understand some of your perspective, as your thoughts on your therapist indicate. I think some therapists (maybe many of them, I don’t know…) blind themselves using the very conceptual techniques they spent years and loads of money acquiring. Many of them may think that all people are supposed to behave certain ways, so that’s what they look for. Instead of looking for what’s actually there, they look for what they believe is supposed to be there, which makes a huge difference. That and their morality and empathy. These things are blinders and the fact that they don’t see that while simultaneosly "helping" you to see the world as they do (which is not very well) makes them imbecilic.
ReplyDeleteBut you know you have to play along and as long as these comments aren’t being monitored in any way, I say keep doing what you’re doing. Use their bullshit against them, play the game and get the fuck outta there.
FD
ReplyDeleteFor instance, tell her you have ADHD. You will get Ritalin, wouldnt that be nice?
Im sorry I have to scrutinize you too, I think its real dumb to not use a condom when you know ( or dont now yet) she is like that.
Oh well the bright side is you have a cute kid. So far so good?
"Also - I really want a drink. I haven't gone this long without a drink in a very long time, and I want to either be off of these drugs, or on some more interesting ones. Rather just none at all. My head is fuzzy from all of the sedation and it is a bit unpleasant. They told me they are doing this to make me more compliant in therapy because, apparently, I have a tendency to be condescending and intimidating to my therapist. Who gave her all the fucking power? Who said to her that she - because she is too weak and cowardly - must use drugs against me in order to feel better about herself during our therapy sessions?"
ReplyDeleteFD, I have to wonder if there's anything this therapist could do to earn your respect. I understand why you're uncomfortable being forced to submit to authority, but I don't understand this lack of respect you have for her for exercising power over you.
The way I see it, there is no fair or unfair power. There is no cheating. There's just power, plain and simple. What you can do, and what you can't do. I'm quite sure many of the tactics you use in your day to day life could just as easily be called "cowardly." What's the difference, in your opinion?
Is this really about "cheating" or "fairness," or is it just about losing control?
Daniel Birdick - Yeah I'm playing the game for sure. You're right what you say about therapists, too - if they think they're looking for a specific thing, and they got it into their heads that a particular thing is bothering you or whatever, they'll push towards that because it makes them feel all good about themselves. This one herself particularly seems to grate on me. Maybe she reminds me of someone I hate or something, or maybe I just don't like her ridiculous little face either.
ReplyDeleteDisney - I did take some Desoxyn for a few days in here, I swapped meds with a friend. I was wild, it was great fun. Unfortunately they know too much about me now that I'm caught (I keep using this net analogy but it's so true), and they have my records dating back for 12 years.
But yes, I have a very cute child, and that's the one good thing. I remember when she told me she was pregnant, I fucking freaked out. I had no idea what to do, but when he was born I slowly came round to the idea, and just thought he was the best thing in the world.
Oh gosh, am I smiling? :)
Peter Pan - I'm not scared to admit for a second that this is definitely about the fact I have lost control over the situation. I'm definitely not used to this, and I hate it. Power is - as you say - power, and I enjoy having it. When it is robbed of me, I feel weak, and I lose respect for myself a little bit. It's like a little internal cyclone. Figuring out my therapist helps me to snatch a bit of that power back.
ReplyDeleteIt is hard to play nice in here - I know I have to, in order to get out, but it's so hard to not play nasty instead.
FD
ReplyDeleteYou know all you need to know. Chill the fuck out and stop doubting yourself.
Interesting indeed though. I would freak out big time BIG time if I was served meds I didnt think I needed.
FD:
ReplyDeleteAbout 10 years ago I when I was heavily into my “experimentation” mode, I got it into my head to see if I could fool a therapist. I had no long range agenda, no grand plan. And these sociopath/psychopath/antisocial labels were nowhere near my radar at the time. I was just testing my own boundaries. Having no experience with it, I had no idea what psychotherapy was like. I assumed, naively as it turned out, that all therapists/psychologists were super smart, insightful and observant, hence the challenge. I know. I was stupid for believing that, but like I said, I didn't know any better. So I tracked down this guy who supposedly specialized in dissociative identity disorder. I read up on it (that’s when I first became fascinated with it) and started seeing him. At some point early on I began subtly “switching” between my various “alters”. He lapped it up uncritically. After a few months of that, I stopped seeing him. That’s probably when I lost respect for psychotherapy in general. I do think cognitive therapy is helpful because I use a down and dirty version of it on myself. Otherwise, I really wonder if most of it isn’t just so much bullshit. I understand your disdain.
Disclaimer: I know not ALL therapists are idiots and I do believe some of it is useful.
ME must be so annoyed we have no regards for his topics sometimes.
ReplyDeleteDB
ReplyDeleteWhat do you mean with this?
"I do think cognitive therapy is helpful because I use a down and dirty version of it on myself. "
Why DID, you thought you had it?
Reading his comment it sounds like someone unfortunate enough to become close to ME has finally seen through him, has seen his black heart, and wants out...and ME is doing what certain sorts of person will do, and that is try to intimidate and frighten and put guilt on that person...make it their fault that he has a black heart and doesn't deserve that person's friendship or love. Some loyalty, some friend you are to that person ME. You indulge your rage as if you are the only one ever to feel rejection. What about the betrayal your friend feels for your deceptions?
ReplyDeleteME talks of loyalty, but elsewhere he has openly talked of having no feelings for those who he has led to believe has his loyalty. Elsewhere he has openly bragged about manipulating them, and laughing to himself as they confide their inner lives to him. So shall we please now develop an appropriate notation within which to understand what ME says within the proper context of what he has previously said...let's use the curly bracket approach to represent encapsulating statements.
ME {
Says no feelings for friends{
Says draws them close and uses them{
Boasts he manipulates them and despises them while they foolishly confide their lives{
Claims to be "loyal" to the same people
}}}}}
Do you get it? This loyalty claim sits inside the facts already established by you about you, and no such thing as loyalty can truly live where you say.
Anonymous obviously has a good point.
ReplyDeleteDisney:
ReplyDeleteDon’t laugh, but I got the idea from a soap opera. Just in case you don’t know, in America they run these daytime dramas, most of them lasting an hour, every day. They’re full of angst and over acting and implausible storylines and ridiculously sappy love stories. Anyway, I caught this storyline of a middle aged woman who had DID and I was completely captivated. One moment she was a teenage boy who threw her enemy down a flight of stairs, the next she was an icy cold and calculating socialite who had to cover up that incident, a few months later she’s a trashy hooker and after that she changes into an arsonist who killed her father. Meanwhile, the “core” persona knew nothing of any of this. I kept thinking how weird is it to be several different people without knowing it? All those huge gaps in your memory, all those strange clothes in your closet, etc. I think if I were going to be mentally ill I’d like to have DID. It seems like a really cool way to be crazy.
BD
ReplyDeleteI see.
Disney said, “Anonymous obviously has a good point.”
ReplyDeleteWell… that depends on how you define loyal.
Loyalty? What if that close friend was scarred by an accident and became afraid and self-hating and so was no longer attractive or intellectually desirable to you..would they have your loyalty? What if you meet even more attractive and desirable people, will you drop your 'friends' in an instant...is this your loyalty?
ReplyDeleteLoyalty isn't what you say it is, loyalty kicks in when it isn't in your self interest to be there for that person. Loyalty is that moment when someone needs you more than you need them and yet there you are.
Forget loyalty, it's not a sociopathic trait. It's not for you. It's only yours as another concept to manipulate and use to your advantage and to take advantage.
Quite true. Loyalty and self-interest are in diametric opposition. One cannot exist with the other in tow. This is not a possibility.
DeleteDisney:
ReplyDeleteWrt that down and dirty version comment… I question some of my thoughts, especially those that are attached to emotions that I think aren’t helpful. I write the questions down, challenge their validity/truthfulness, and so on. I also sometimes deliberately aim my thoughts in directions that produce positive feelings. It’s really simple, but I’ve found it to be very effective for me. I’ve got to declare war on myself on a few other thought habits though, but I’ll get there.
WTB m.e.'s dismembered head $4500
ReplyDelete1 month of pay for 1 day of work
comment here when you have it
delivery in person in california
will need proof of positive id
payment upon receipt via egold
cash is not an option
it occurs to me that you wannabes might take that seriously and do something stupid
ReplyDeletethere is no reward for m.e.'s head
"Loyalty isn't what you say it is, loyalty kicks in when it isn't in your self interest to be there for that person. Loyalty is that moment when someone needs you more than you need them and yet there you are."
ReplyDeleteAs a sociopath, this normally "powerful" (to a normal person) point will cause about 3 minutes introspection. Then in true 'mirroring' form the same concept will re-emerge in his mind as a reason to resent his errant friend for not 'being there when ME needed them more than they needed ME".
This is how sociopathy works. It's not that empathy doesn't exist, it's just that it takes enormous input of energy and 'mood music' to bring it out in the sociopath. But as soon as the energy goes away, all the sociopath is left with are new insights as to how other people can be manipulated using the same vocabularly.
Not being intentionally critical, just pointing out the real impact of the words: they will be used against whoever has upset ME today.
DB
ReplyDeleteWhat thought habits? I might just have the same..
just a comment for father dearest. you need to find one redeeming quality of your "babys mama" and focus on that when dealing with her... i don't know, maybe she had nice tits or something, non the less, having a cordial, respectful relationship will benefit your kid, yourself and "bm"...(probably save you bail money for your kid in the future, too.) then, when you get out, think about getting "snipped", because women have lied about being on the pill since it's invention, it is reversible, women can't tell the difference, an i hear it is painless. plus. think of all the fun you'll have whipping out your "papers" when the next chick say's "daddy, i am late.!!"
ReplyDeleteSomething seems to have gone dreadfully awry here...?
ReplyDeleteDaniel Birdick - I know of a man who has also done this to a therapist. They do tend to lap it up - you give them what they want and they say think "Yes, yes! This is exactly what I learned in school!".
Disney - I'm sorry, I know I seem awfully antsy today, on the outside I am just a vision of calm, trust me. It's just all gotten a bit too much for me. Not long now, though. I spoke to one of the social workers here and it's looking like I could get moved to an outpatient service in 2 weeks, providing I carry on at my rate of improvement.
Here's hoping...
Here’s one I’ve had off and on for a while:
ReplyDeleteI should just walk away from everything. NOW. I’m not talking about making preparations to move or relocate. I’m talking literally, one day just getting up and walking out of all of it. Sometimes I get so unbelievably bored that I have the urge to shake it all up and suddenly walk away. I did that in my early 20’s once. I ended up staying in a seedy motel in Lancaster, CA, which is an hour outside of LA, then sleeping in my car for a few days, then coming back home after I saw that I was as bored in LA as I was at home. Unfortunately, it took me a few times before the whole “wherever you go, there you are” lesson sunk in. I still have the impulse though, along with a strong urge to do it. I fight it because I already know what the results are going to be.
FD said, “Something seems to have gone dreadfully awry here...?”
ReplyDeleteYou referring to the dull moralizing comments those brave “anonymouses” left here?
So, the drama, it makes you feel alive then?
Good news about the impending release date, btw. Were you "detained" against your will?
"This is how sociopathy works. It's not that empathy doesn't exist, it's just that it takes enormous input of energy and 'mood music' to bring it out in the sociopath."
ReplyDeleteThis is a window into an understanding of the meaning and true need an 'enlightened' sociopath has for reliable loyal friends. He needs people to whom he can provide glimpses of the darkness, not enough to scare them away, but enough that they can help him step back into the light. In return he uses his unique insight of their elemental needs to 'be there' in the way they need.
It's not loyalty in the usual sense, and there is a downside in that the mood music will make him better at manipulating and hurting others who have no value to him. But it's not entirely devoid of the concept of loyalty either. Nor too is virtue entirely absent. There is a need...and that need is borne of a wish to keep facing the light. And it involves trust and a fair exchange...and as such the brain has to hold this new concept of...balance, exchange, light and dark, friendship, loyalty...who knows give it a million years and some powerful whizzy woo maybe even love get born.
all the anon comments except the weird ones about ME's head, got written by different sides within me, that is, me not ME.
ReplyDeleteme as in me. I feel all the different ways I described, all just as strongly and all in conflict. So I suppose ME could possibly feel all the horrid ways he does about people and still be loyal in other ways. Life is contradiction, and our minds must be all split up inside in ways that allow it. In that way contradiction when we detect it, may even be the hallmark that maybe the real truth is now being spoken. Maybe oneday humans will evolve so all the separated parts can be together.
luv lucyx
“There is a need...and that need is borne of a wish to keep facing the light.”
ReplyDeleteOk, I wasn’t going to address any of the anonymouses comments since none of them were addressed to me, but the comment this little gem was in is making me wonder: is this a joke? A parody? If it is, the comment is great.
DB
ReplyDeleteInteresting. What ways have you found can relieve the boredom? What were you expecting to find or do in LA. Ive been there, thats certainly a city full of people from all walks of life lets put it that way.
I sometimes have a feeling I need to DO something. Do a deed ( I have no idea how to say it in English). make a point. But I dont really know what for. For example one time when i was a little kid is I was laying in my bed having that feeling and I just took my blankets and went to sleep in the staircase ( the room underneath it). I couldnt think of anything else. My mind flipped through all sorts of possibilities but this was all I could execute. Mind you i was small. No point whatsoever. Now I have like I said earlier other outlets. I am never bored in the sense I dont have anything to do. I do feel bored with all the things I do though. But again Ive learnt to deal with it ( occupying my mind and body on many levels or meditation).
DB
ReplyDeletewere you serious with the gem thing?
"There is a need...and that need is borne of a wish to keep facing the light."
ReplyDeleteshadow falls across my face again because it isn't just that. It's the wish to be more powerful. It's no good falling away into the darkness because then everyone can see you for what you are. Everything comes back to the darkness, the black heart. You have a black heart ME, and I can feel it even from all the way across the world.
oh I don't know what I feel any more. those are all my feelings in all their naked and stupid conflict
DB
ReplyDeleteBtw working towards something epic has worked for me in the past. I dont really want to name them, but I slowly worked towards some things I really wanted. Honestly I achieved some cool things or interesting or just respectful. BUT the problem is when you realize that there is little you cant master if you would really put your head to it, very little becomes worthwhile ( not saying I could be or want to be everything but the idea alone already makes me yawn). Well its the cliche thing about it being about the road towards and not the result. I sometimes wish I could just be satisfied with things my friends are content with. But really I have nothing to complain about. I really do like myself. Now that I think of it, my life is pretty good.
FD
ReplyDeleteThats good news. Very curious to see how youll be doing those next weeks. How antsy you will get? Feel free to feel free on here Id say.
oh shush daniel birdick you gray verbose old gasbag, you wouldn't know the inner meaning of something if it landed on your head. I'll speak to you if I need life insurance.
ReplyDeletewhich I might if I keep this up tee hee :O)
DB
ReplyDeleteThat last anon comment made me laugh a little to be honest. Hope you dont mind. Certainly thinking about this person reading for so long without daring to comment ( the insurance thing was a while back).
Sociopathworld the TV series
ReplyDeleteEpisode 14: Peter Pan and lucyx show up to the Sociopath annual get together
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDCYFshhSkQ
Disney and anon (lucy loo?):
ReplyDeleteThat comment made me lol also. It was great. And yes, you might wanna get that life insurance all caught up... :)
Disney:
ReplyDeleteI haven’t been as good about handling the boredom thing. I didn’t even know for the longest time that’s all it was. I made a mountain out of a molehill. Now that I know though, I think at some point in the future I’ll have to find ways to distract myself, do a little more of that internal inquiry thing and so on. I’ve been considering taking up meditation again also, since you mentioned that.
Are you looking for meaning? Or something like it?
DB
ReplyDeleteStop harassing me with your meaning question lol.
DB
ReplyDeleteyou didnt anwer this ( please I mean hehe):
"What ways have you found can relieve the boredom? What were you expecting to find or do in LA. Ive been there, thats certainly a city full of people from all walks of life lets put it that way"
No no no, these episodes are supposed to inspire paranoia and/or actually reveal something interesting about M.E.! What's this youtube crap all about? You're failing to serve your purpose, bitch!
ReplyDeleteLoyalty is a matter of perspective.
ReplyDeleteWhat one person thinks is loyal might be considered being "overtly controlled" by another. It all depends on your personal impression of it or the usage that it holds in life. Those who are loyal to a blinding degree are controlled willingly and someone testing the loyalty of another is merely seeing how far is too far. The common thought is that loyalty is related to trust…it isn’t. It has more in common with manipulation that it does with trust.
My perspective of loyalty is that it’s similar to willingly being manipulated or handing power over to someone less worthy, but more capable of wielding it. Loyalty is just a test of one’s use to another and nothing more to me.
Disney said, "What were you expecting to find or do in LA."
ReplyDeleteNothing but change. I thought being in an entirely different city, by itself, would make all the difference. It didn't because at the time I didn't understand that my mind had to change first.
DB
ReplyDeleteBut you still have the same issues with regards to boredom no?
Wow, ME comes across as a needy goofball in this one.
ReplyDeleteWhat's really disturbing is the photo of the birds.
ReplyDeleteLooks like the one bird is trying to mate with the dead one.
Creepy.
"The people who are able to talk me down from the rage and make things better, who watch after me and make sure I don't hurt myself or others -- those people are my inner circle. I don't really wish for fame, fortune, success, or whatever. But I do sometimes wish I could do more for those who show the same amount of loyalty to me that I show to them."
ReplyDeleteMe: Huh??? Is it EVER someone else's responsibility to calm you down, to make things better for you, to make sure you don't hurt yourself and others? What planet are you from? Talk about a sense of entitlement...
If you screw up in any way, shape, or form, you need to be man enough/woman enough to take the consequences, which include disaproval and even rejection, depending on the magnitude of the harm you caused. It sounds like your "inner circle" is a bunch of sheep who take your tantrums and outbursts and destructiveness thereof upon themselves, a bunch of masochists. That is not loyalty, that is pathetic. And from you, it's simply...parasitic.
"I lose control of the rage".
Me: Too bad. In that case, you aren't any better than an animal and your brain mass is being wasted. Grow up.
Dan Messe
ReplyDeleteFIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteSECOND!!!!!!!!!!!!
DeleteTHIRD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DeleteEmpathy makes me feel connected in such a way that Loyalty to others is a form of self-preservation. I am loyal to you because you are me in a spiritual and emotionAl sense. However loyalty also is the price one pays for the insuance policy of "in sickness or in health". I will not abandon you when you are down and You will not abandon me when I am down- big comfort in that- so its a combination of self- interest, spirituality and love. But you can take out the empathy and i would still find loyalty a worthy proposition. However if you become too much of a burden no empath no matter how spiritual will be there for you. The streets are littered with homeless people whose families and friends decided loyalty cost too much to them. Once again i am not sure how different we really are
ReplyDelete"However, if you become too much of a burden no empath no matter how spiritual will be there for you.
DeleteDefine "burden."
Burden is when the price is too high.
Deletehttp://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?word=burden
DeleteOften an albatross around one’s neck is no more than a burdensome annoyance, a “drag” that inhibits one’s freedom or lessens one’s pleasure.
Deleteball and chain A wife; one’s girl friend or mistress; any person perceived as a burden or hindrance. This figurative meaning of ball and chain is derived from the iron ball which is secured by a chain to the leg of a prisoner in order to prevent escape. Insofar as having a wife inhibits one’s freedom, this slang expression is apt
He deliberately attempted to commit suicide by askin’ me “How’s the ball and chain?” meanin’ my wife. (Collier’s, June 25, 1921)
cross to bear A painful burden or affliction; an oppressive encumbrance.
So.....Do people here ever feel like the burden described above is what some instances of loyalty can feel like??
^the first 4 paragraphs should be in quotes, as they were taken from the link. Thank you btw, anon 8:04 :)
Delete:) Good morning Sociopathworld!
ReplyDeleteHow is life?
ongoing
DeleteLOL! Good Answer!
DeleteHow are you personally Mee?
As good as self centered psychopath can be.
DeleteI ate a spicy pizza and drunk way too much coke and now my tummy hurts. I feel like going to poop but nothing happens when I enter the water closet. Ignoring that I had a great day, learned new things had lots of shit to do, haven't noticed how the day passed and have many plans for tomorrow, so I'm better than ever (my failure of the day actually makes it more interesting).
DeleteLMAO!!!! Nice, but a little too much information! But, since we are on this topic, I can NEVER take a poop daily! Being on methadone constipates me to the MAX, Iam LUCKY if I go once every 3 days, even with stool softeners it dosent really help, it helps a little, but not much! Sometimes it concerns me how much "backup" I may have, but I drink alot of water and have vegtables everynight, so hopefully that helps!
DeletePS- Spicy Piza sounds freakin AWESOME, Iam an AVID hot sauce fan so I like alot of my food to be spicy and I like trying different peppers out. I have this one hot sauce called "Daves Insanity Hot sauce" and my friend also has a bottle, and he was making chili one night and said he put ONE DROP in but it was a big drop, and it was so spicy it fucked up his ENTIRE BATCH of chili!!!!! That is some strong stuff there, it also says on the back of it that it will also strip the floors if you want to use it for that purpose! LOL!
lol Rich.
DeleteThe hell rich, what are you trying to accomplish?
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAfter I wrote it, I realized the answer so I deleted it.
ReplyDeleteClassic, Original Theme Series
ReplyDeleteClassic Original Theme for Haven
DeleteLOL That is a STRANGE theme for Haven!
Delete::smiles:: It's beautiful and sad... and honest. Thank you Themes. I actually think it makes perfect sense.
DeleteI'm re-posting on my blog b/c I love it and it is very fitting.
Deletewhen someone proves themselves to be consistently safe and warm, I am grateful in loyalty. Loyalty is closeness like intimacy. It is love. It is a dog's love, but that is valid.
ReplyDeleteI would like to talk about something i did a few months ago. It was impulsive. I think I did something that idk, Monica might interpret as codependent. It felt wrong to me and I would like to share. I hope that Raven is here because I thought about her, too.
ReplyDeletePlease do share. I recognize your overly explanatory style of writing. It's burdensome to read, but I find your contributions to SW addictive nonetheless.
DeleteThey are no longer addictive for me. I scan over them without much thought to them.
Deletewell it's about fuckn time, isn't it?
Delete^It works for me
DeletePlease, share Anon. We are all co-dependent.
ReplyDeleteIt is just a matter of degree but degree can make a huge difference. Co-dependency is an albatross around one's neck.
I am trying to lessen mine and have had some success.
Please, tell what went on, Anon.
Thank you Monica and the sexy Y E M @8:23
DeleteOk here is goes:
DeleteI have a friend I like who is in need of special guidance with his child, who is a burden for him.
My radio station offered a free "empowering parents" package I thought might be tremendously helpful to him. He has been going to shrink after shrink trying to help this son get with the program . The 14 yr old has no respect for authority, stole money from his sister, lied about it despite having the wad of cash pulled out from his pocket, says the teachers lose his HW.
This kid is headed for a life a parasitism. All shrinks say his IQ is exceptionally high but he has the emotions of a 7 yr old.
I signed away for the package but I did not tell my friend. I ended up having to fill out a very very long questionnaire wherein I had to lie about the childs progress. that was a ridiculous burden (in order to save the 400 bucks the package would have cost me I had to do this pain in the ass thing)
But that is not the point. That is just a price I paid.
The point is that 1) I overstepped this parent's boundary. At the time I signed up I thought I was being helpful but then I felt wrong and a bit fearful that I was behaving like my mother, an interfering narcissist, 2) I thought that I was going to risk losing the person by being overbearing. - -I did not let myself give this package to him and came to this decision directly after sending away for the package.
3-I think I am reliving some kind of childhood desire to re-parent myself. This is not right to inflict on another. This, I believe, is a form of narcissistic behavior unacceptable to me.
I am happy about not giving package to friend.. It is not my responsibility to be overly helpful to this person, and it served as a distraction from myself and the duties to myself I ignore. <<<(I felt the Fomentile brother made this point to Raven a while back. He said Raven might have the tendency to go out of her way too often if she chose the "wrong" guy if/when she got attached. I have similar attachment issues.
I do not want to be so helpful to a person in this way, especially when this parent never asked for any help, whatsoever. I am a sounding board and helpful and already appreciated. I am often too tempted to put in my 2 scents. I must refrain most of the time from telling the parent he has more options. I try but have trouble to shut my mouth. After all I do not have children, and who am I to know more than he.
Thank you for reading.
The Fomentiles had a lot of good things to say. I agree.
DeleteTo me, your situation seems like one of those life situations we all struggle with.
IOW, no one has perfect emotional health.
We all must struggle between taking care of ourselves and helping others.
We all must struggle with our inner securities and self doubt.
I think it was good you did not get involved with this situation, as I think you would have been a drop in the bucket in a really toxic situation.
In these kinds of situations, you, usually, lose your friend, as he will side with his son and end up being angry at you.
You seemed like you handled it well, as you listened to your own intuition.
That is my take on it, anyway.
thank you, Monica.
DeleteI think I gave too many details.
I just do not know why I felt I should do this interfering thing, this thing that wold not have caused friction, as I do not know the son. I never met him. I just felt like *I* could help in a fashion that would win me more favor when I already have it. I think it was an attempt to get closer and then I scared myself. I know I did the right thing not going through with it.
I am the anon who once told an old ex I would help him get clean from drugs . But I had to take that impulsive gesture back, too. This reminds me of that a little bit.
I have fear of getting too close and also I want to be close.
Before I know it, someone will rely on me and I will not feel willing.
I end up doing very little now because I do not want to get myself in social trouble. I do not understand why I am driven to these gestures (ok, some are really "off" and that was one of them) which make it seem I want to be close.
Because I do not know what I want exactly. My solution is to do nothing, now. I am good with that. It just feels like I do not have any solid desire.
Loyalty is the preference of someone over someone else more deserving. it is only done in the expectation that they will do the same for you at a later date.
ReplyDeleteI do not understand "preference of someone else more deserving " unless this loyalty is a temporary thing.
DeleteWhat about the long term kind of loyalty -the kind loyalty where there is a quid pro quo reliable over time?
I have to talk to you guys.
ReplyDeleteI am so stressed.
I realize I am not this piece of garbage I thought I was.
I realize that I am a flawed piece of humanity like everyone but this is so stressful to me.
Why, do you think?
Because you are used of relating yourself to crap. You are going through changes and some people respond to them with excitement, some with stress - e.g. women crying when winning a prize on tv, it can be explained but it is not understandable. However it fits your situation pretty good. Go get some sleep or go out or do sth else to distract you from thinking and later you'll find yourself to be Monica 1.2 :)
DeleteI think you're a pretty bad person, Monica, but that's my opinion.
DeleteI don't think you are a worthless piece of garbage Monica, I know you are, and I am kind of saddened that you would think you are anything but. You should accept what you are, no matter how meaningless and repugnant. You are not like everyone else. You are this worthless piece of garbage all on your own. No one else on this planet is like you. Love it, love you, love yourself!
DeleteThat's so cute Piles, it brought a tear to my eye. <3
DeleteDamn why are you guys being so hard on Monica at her time of need?
DeleteIam sorry they are so mean to you Monica.
Whats wrong? Are you okay?
They're not mean, they're being helpful. You read it wrong bro.
DeleteRich, Peebee steals other people's art and tries to pawn it off as her own, so consider the source.
DeleteAnyway, I filter out people like that. You have to, here, and in regular life *sigh*
I have my friends here like you and other people whom I respect.
Mee was right. It is a shift in personal identity which is really scary and strange.
Every day is a "time of need" for this worthless piece of garbage. Nothing is ever going to change with this vile sheet of filth, no matter how many nice things you say to it. The only way this putrid collection of waste to accept the worthless piece of garbage she is is to accept it and leave it at that. There is nothing deep and insightful about filth. No matter how deep you dig into that pile of unsanitary scum you will still have decomposing remnants and permanent stains of rubbish. End of story.
DeleteOriginal Theme Series
DeleteRich, if ever you wish to witness what it is this piece of garbage is talking about it is a thread called "Art", and to her dismay, not once did I admit the art I displayed was mine, so there was no lying involved. It was me fucking with the regulars utilizing semantics, and for the most part they got over it because none of that shit mattered. If they haven't, not my problem. That is something completely irrelevant to my message to her anyway. As tactless as the message may seem, there is a positive meaning behind it. Stop being a pussy about it, same with you PoG.
DeleteTheme for Peebee
DeleteMilli Vanilli Award for Pawning off Another Person's Art as One's Own
Lol! What?
DeleteClassic Original Theme Series
DeleteClassic Original Theme for Rich the Uber Empath
DeleteMonica, you are in a time period of transition and learning about yourself, so shifts in personal identity are to be expected, and are normal (at least to me, or else why would anybody need to explore themselves to change?).
DeleteI realize that we CANNOT ALL GET ALONG, LOL, look at where we are, we are in "Sociopath World" but I think everybody should respect everybody else until there is a reason not to...... And maybe you and "PeeBee" have had words before this (it seems like it) so that may be why I dont understand the hostility.
But for where you are in your life, shifts in personal identity can be quick and rapid, they may not be long lasting, but that is just because you are exploring and trying to find your "personal identity".
I wish you the best and hope we can all get along, although it is unlikely ;)
Peebee, I get where you are coming from and I understand there is past conflict between the two of you...... I didnt know that and I just thought you were being "mean" for no reason. Like I said before, this is "Sociopath World" so obviously everything isint always going to be peachy and there is going to be disagreements, arguments, and fights.
DeleteIam sorry for coming in between the two of you because I thought you were just being mean to be mean, I didnt know there was past conflict between you and Monica.
Anyway, I dont want to make any enemies here, I just wish we could all get along, but that will never happen....... So I understand why you feel the way you feel and I understand why Monica feels the way she feels.
Personally, I would like to get along with EVERYBODY, but not everybody feels the same way as I do, and that is understandable, so obviously everybody isint going to get along with me even if I try to be nice and havent done a thing to them.
You have a good night Peebee........ Iam sorry to get caught between you and Monica, I had no idea there was past conflict.
LMAO, NICE THEME, Themes, that voice is like no other I have ever heard in my life!
DeleteYou know what amazes me about you Rich? It's that even after all you have been through, you still seem to see nothing but the best in people and try to help them. I am not nearly as optimistic about people. You are a good man with a kind heart and I hope life doesn't rob you of this eventually. I'm sure if you put your mind to getting better, you can achieve good things in life. Help alleviate some of the suffering in this world.
DeleteWell said, Anon. You rock, Richie! Love ya.
DeleteWhat the hell are you apologizing for? Do you think you somehow offended me? You didn't. I don't have any conflicts with anyone here Rich, and I seriously doubt you understand much of anything.
DeleteI don't feel anything for anyone ever, and I sure as hell would never feel anything for some nutcase on the internet. My words to her are for my entertainment, and for her to possibly see past the harshness of them and comprehend the point. It is up to her to take it how she wishes, and should she not get it, no skin off my back. Me sugar coating actually comes off as condescending, so I may as well be the way I work best.
Hi Medusa.
DeleteHi Raven.
DeleteOMG Rich you made me pee in my pants a little.
DeleteRich,
DeleteYou know what I'm thinking? I'll try to make this brief...
You seem to get really nervous, frantic even, when you see conflict of any kind here. You are right to see it is nothing to do with you, and understand it has a history you have no clue about, but you seem so emotionally invested in everything anyway. Possibly to an unhealthy extent, and here is why I say this:
When you express that you wish everyone would get along, and everyone would like you, it says to me that you kind of have this fairy tail mentality, where nothing bad is supposed to happen, and everything should be all sunshine, love, and understanding. Then some anon comes along and pats you on the back for your "optimism" and says what a good person you are.
The fact very well may be that you don't have coping mechanisms to deal with life that isn't pleasant. One of the many reasons you're such an escapist, and turn to drugs and alcohol.
So I'm curious now... which I'm sure will be a passing thing... but while I am, let me ask you this: Do you feel panicky when you are faced with conflicts in real life? Are you able to deal with the idea that there are people who may not like you, or get along with you? Do you go out of your way to please everyone?
What the hell? Why did you just say hi to me?
DeleteI bearly got here! lol creepy little weirdo. :P
Monica, you realized how worthless you were, and had a momentary crisis of identity. It broke a carefully crafted mask, and in your moment of shame and weakness, you made a new mask to hide yourself.
DeleteYou didn't grow as a person at all, and now you're projecting on others as a source of comfort. You're worse off now than you were before because you've believed your own lie.
Because you're wretched and weak, now everyone else must be wretched and weak. That is how you are coping now, and it will turn you into a very bitter and empty person, or at least more than what you've already been.
Jumping on the bangwagon like a little girl again, TNP?
DeleteWhat bandwagon?
DeleteTNPNovember 5, 2012 10:34 PM
DeleteMonica, you realized how worthless you were, and had a momentary crisis of identity. It broke a carefully crafted mask, and in your moment of shame and weakness, you made a new mask to hide yourself.
You didn't grow as a person at all, and now you're projecting on others as a source of comfort. You're worse off now than you were before because you've believed your own lie.
Because you're wretched and weak, now everyone else must be wretched and weak. That is how you are coping now, and it will turn you into a very bitter and empty person, or at least more than what you've already been.
TNP
I want to break down your answer because this is one of the most irrational thought processes I have ever seen. Are you willing to break it down with me? I am interested in other people's thinking processes, as I am trying to change my own.
Ok---1st of all no human being is worthless. We are all created by God. Even the unwanted baby in the womb is loved and wanted by God. So, this first comment is completely false from the point of view of a Born Again Christian, which I am,
Delete2nd---How do I project on others as a source of comfort? What does that mean?
3rd--I don't understand at all, the rest of your loose bowels meandering. I don't understand enough to even ask a question, so maybe you would Ex-lax me and give me your take on it.
1. Remove God from the equation, and your justification holds no water. The fact that you've used that as your lone justification for the value of humans is both funny and tragic. Were you born in another land without your God, would you not value others?
Delete2. You repeatedly say "we" when referencing "you" and assume that "everyone" shares your problems. That's projection.
3. There's no pill to fix Stupid. When there is one, I suggest you get a prescription.
Right
DeleteRemove God and there is no sense to anything. Checkmate :D
You just checkmated yourself, idiot.
DeleteHow so, Big boy?
DeleteIt has only been very recently that the Judeo-Christian faith has been introduced to a bulk (not even all) of the world, yet it has been populated by billions of people that never heard the word of god nor subscribed to that particular cult.
DeleteThey made sense of the world just fine without him with their own valid and working laws and morals.
TNP Please explain how monica projects herself onto others and you do not.
DeleteI have heard her make comments like "I am worthless" after someone depressing says they have a trouble. She will pick up their cues and run to look at herself in the mirror and say to herself "yes yes I am wretched like that person who just posted something self loathing." I see her doing this. this is what it is like to have loose identity.
People here do not like negativity. It is contagious because some of us have so much flexibility.
TNP You are a shitflinger with loose bowels, yes? and you are proud of it, yes? You like to see the diarrhea spew out of your ass and hosed onto others, yes?
Well people here where protective goggles and gas masks and rain gear for your diarrhea volcanoes.
Everyone knows you like your feces. You hold it close to your heart. And That is why you got cancer. There I said it.
Monica, I will never forgive for saying that, especially anonymously.
DeleteMaybe some day I'll come by and pay you a visit so I can teach you some manners.
TNP
DeleteI WOULD NEVER SAY THAT TO YOU OR ANYONE.
I hope you believe me, but I can't make you, of course.
I know we have words but I would never hurt you like that.
I am sorry someone said that to you, TNP.
If, anyone, would believe that TNP would responsd so passively - needs their fucking head examined. In fact, listening to all of Monica's alias's - I need my head examined. lol...lol
DeleteTNP
DeleteI did not say that, nor would I to someone I really hated, but I don't hate you.
However, the way you felt is how I felt when people said horrible things to me, so maybe it may be a teachable moment for you <3
I also don't mind if someone I love tells me I'm being an idiot, or doing something they don't like. I prefer to know the truth, no matter how bad it may be because then you can try and work it out. Make the relationship stronger and better, make both parties feel more secure and valued.
ReplyDeleteI have made the mistake in the past of not speaking up because I didn't feel I had the right or that they will use it to manipulate and corner me. It almost cost me everything.
Rejection hurts because it feels like they are not even willing to give you a chance to make it right. It is loss of control.
To those I love, I am kind, generous and extremely loyal. I can be the best friend or lover they ever had. Fierce loyalty to those select few also means I tolerate a great deal more misbehavior from them than anyone else without flying into a rage. They can reveal ugly truths about themselves and not be judged unfairly, but respected for having the courage to confess.
Loving them means even if they fuck up, but are honest and respectful about it, I will still genuinely want the best for them. I will grit my teeth, swallow the initial rage and wish them well. Then- as long as they don't repeat their mistake and make up for it somehow- they will have their loving, supportive friend or lover back.
I bet you actually believe your lies about yourself. Your words and thoughts reveal a scary control freak full of rage though. That you construct such an elaborate falsity around who you are and what you feel shows you are a narcissist. Covert, perhaps. They're also known as martyr types.
DeleteSuch judgement to pass off of one post. How would you know anything about me or my relationships in real life, except what I just told you? Sounds like somebody is projecting.
DeleteYes, I am a control freak, but my rages are better controlled and I am good to those I love these days. Definitely not a narcissist or scary, but spent a great deal of my life being used and abused, so had to learn where to draw the line before I exploded. I also learned that becoming bitter and jaded, then lashing out over trivial matters was not doing me any good.
I am aware of my strengths and weaknesses, partly from seeking and receiving honest feedback from those that know me best. Partly from looking back at all the times I fucked up and trying not to repeat them.
You said you still have to grit your teeth and swallow rage. Something is not right in you if you are experiencing rage that you feel must be denied.
DeleteYes I do. Sometimes I get very angry if I feel that someone I love is trying to manipulate or betray me. But later I realize it might just be paranoia and they didn't mean to.
DeleteI can be very quick to anger, but soon calm down and start to think rationally again. That's why I try to swallow that initial rage. So I can assess the situation better and deal with it like an adult. Not just explode and inflame the situation further. There is always time to start a war later if necessary.
1:57 I identify with you very much. Thank you.
DeleteThank you. It feels good to know there are others like me here. All the best to you.
Deleteyou too.
DeleteWalters walked with a slight limp, but it was with a sense of gratitude and sheer joy to be alive that he shoved his way through the door of the methadone clinic. As he waited in line for his dose he told himself that this would be the turning point in his life. He had been given a reprieve, a stay of execution, and he intended to embrace the opportunity. So what if it meant a little deception and feeding his first real client misinformation.
ReplyDeleteDick spun idly round and round in his office chair. He was delaying finishing up his report and he didn't know why. Mannion had given him detailed instructions on exactly what to say to the client that had hired him to do surveillance on the gangster, but he was uneasy. He simply couldn't place what it was about his client, the Ms P. B. Beeves, that troubled him so.
Delete^^^^ Wonderful work, as usual
DeleteDependable, but not loyal. I wont trust a psychopath... deceit is their very nature, lying is like their natural tongue. But from my experience, they are dependable, I think its pride that requires it of them.
ReplyDeleteA question about loyalty. To anyone, but the question is mostly generated from the initial post, though I've read through all the discussion since. Do you expect loyalty from someone even if they feel betrayed by you? As an example, if you promised something that was important to them(such as sexual fidelity and exclusivity in a relationship) but then lied and cheated anyway, would you expect the other person to remain loyal anyway, even though you broke an agreement you both mutually agreed upon? It seems that at least one of you would consider yourself loyal even while breaking this agreement? Would you be enraged if you were rejected because you broke the agreement? Would you consider the other person disloyal for rejecting you for breaking your agreement?
ReplyDeleteMaybe these questions are naive on my part, but they are honest questions, I'd really like to hear your perspective(s).
I have no qualms altering any aspect of my behavior to align with my decision to become involved with someone. I don't hold sexual loyalty to any esteem, and in general find it pedantic, but it doesn't persuade my involvement with that person one way or the other.
DeleteNow that I think about it I have actually never broken my decided loyalty. I have, however, unscrupulously, slept with many married partners.
Let me relate this, then, to other "promises" I may have made within a relationship: if I choose to break an agreement I make with someone with whom I am actively involved, then I have most likely reached a place where the outcome is inconsequential. I will neither be hurt, nor relieved to be forgiven. I will most likely keep on with my life in whatever ways I choose and if the "injured" party wishes to stay along for the ride that's just dandy with me. So long as they do not become cumbersome or fussy once making their decision to stay or go with the understanding I will do as I please.
An interesting note on this topic of fidelity: I have engaged myself in these "promises" of sexual fidelity. I have also been cheated on by highly emotional types. They ultimately felt much more about the whole thing than I did. I did play my part as the "hurt one," which did prove advantageous if I ever needed to elicit particular reactions. However, I do not recall being "hurt" in the way that my heart was broken, or I felt I wasn't good enough. I do remember feeling irritated and a bit let down that the person I had chosen to be my partner had so little control -or even understanding, of their impulses, desires, motivators, etc.
I am trying to answer this but i think all situations will be different. I do not trust people. If I fall for someone there is still always going to be one foot out the door because of this. It is very hard to think about loyalty with this attitude.
ReplyDeleteI would not expect anyone to remain loyal if I ever cheated.
Sociopaths need to respect those that reject or walk away from them. Those are the strong ones. The weak ones stay.
ReplyDeleteThank you both for your responses.
ReplyDeleteYes, I agree all situations will be different. "one foot out the door" sounds familiar.
I'v always felt alone, not trusting anyone to do the right things so i'v always done them myself. I run my own business and everyone respects me and looks up to me and all but I'm left wondering if they actually care or not if "Loyalty" if something they value just as much as respect, afew that I would certaintly call my brothers and sisters if we were related have been through with me from the good and the bad times. My question is, am Ment for this? To be respected? or am I the one who should be respecting them and being loyal to them.
ReplyDeleteThat actually bothers me in people, how easily I can see something from another's point of view, free of judgement and prejudice but other people can be so quick to criticize an idea just because they don't agree. They don't consider the possibility that they might be wrong but somehow the sociopaths that consider ideas as radical as Hitler's, Marx's or Stalin's on equal ground as democracy, freedom of speech and habeas corpus are the villains, for being impartial. People, jeez...
ReplyDelete