I'm a recovering addict, clean from drugs for 8 years. I notice a higher concentration of ASPD (Anti-Social Personality Disorder) addicts in 12-step fellowships and was wondering if there is a connection between addiction and ASPD. I displayed sociopathic traits as well as addictive behaviors long before I picked up drugs. I've found those of us with ASPD have a harder time fully addressing the various aspects of our addiction than those without. Just curious if you're a recovering addict as well.
My response:
I'm not a recovering addict but I know that I am very prone to addiction so I have actually tried to avoid addictive substances. I always want to try everything at least once, but I can usually tell when something is too good to be good for me, if you know what I mean.
Sociopaths allegedly don't learn well from experience/mistakes. I think that is because we have a higher tolerance for pain, discomfort, etc. This can be a huge advantage in situations where pain is paralyzing or otherwise not constructive. It also makes us dangerous to ourselves, though. We're like those people who can't feel physical pain. I have had way more near death experiences than anyone else I know of in my peer group or family. I'm also reckless emotionally and mentally. I have taken on emotional or mental burdens before that have led to the brink of a breakdown. We have to be extra careful about what we do to ourselves because we don't have the risk-averseness and emotional/psychic pain to signal to us to stop doing something because it is hurting us. I can see how this would make us especially prone to acquiring addictions.
I think surrounding play a vital role in the odds of a sociopathic person away from such things and if you can grasp the ugly truth of addiction before you ever experience it yourself, then empath or socio, you can sway those odds.
Don’t get me wrong, when compared to a empath, I have much larger underlying risk factor to the probability of becoming an addict to any vice, more so then any empath I know and as a rule, I think someone with sociopathic traits is automatically prone to become an addict, though there are exceptions to that rule. I think that if you are aware of the psychological impact addiction plays and are at least moderately aware of your own nature then you can avoid such unmerited drama, unless you’ve found yourself addicted to the dramatic rush, in which case you might be fucked.
But I grew up watching all those addiction videos and while they actually made me want to try drugs more then convincing me of sobriety as a more fulfilling alternative, it was the fact that while I was watching these poorly made propaganda films, I was surrounded by addicts in their agonizing transition to becoming sober…and it was my developmental stages in that unflinching environment that I attribute to my never having done any hardcore drugs.
However, those videos covered on drugs and alcohol. I’ve found I am an addictive gambler, thankfully as ME said… “I can tell when something is too good to be good for me.” And I corrected that surprisingly fast, considering I normally suffer an inability to change until it’s almost too late. So I think that while my surroundings played a part in me not being a junkie, the lack of knowledge about gambling proves that I have an addictive personality all the same and I’ll leave as much of the drama of addiction to the queen of hearts as I can and shuffle that bitch as far away as I can, if you know what I mean.
It seems to me that sociopaths and addicts both suffer from dysfunctional judgment regarding risk and reward.
The junkie, because the high is 10x better than anything else he can experience in life.
The sociopath, because negative experiences aren't properly internalized, perhaps not even properly experienced.
Both can understand the consequences logically, but their failure to internalize leaves them both fighting powerful urges, armed with nothing but an abstract, intellectual idea of what indulgence may lead to.
I dont know about that, have you ever read "The Mask Of Sanity" Most of the cases of the primary psychopaths involved alcohol and drinking alcoholically and getting in trouble/arrested while being very drunk.
From what I have read yes Primary Psychopaths are less impulsive and more able to deter instant gratification than secondary psychopaths.
Also, Hervey Cleckley didnt write that book from prison data, it was written about his patients in a private psychiatric hospital, which is why you see that alot of his patients families are wealthy, because they are the only people who can afford such treatment for such long periods of time in private psychiatric institutions.
Oh lord, I think there may be quite a few questions headed my way today.......
My take, as somebody who was addicted to short acting opiates but am now on methadone (long acting opiate) I have been to the meetings at my clinic and I dont nessicarily think there are more sociopaths overall......
Honestly, it is really hard to say because if one reads the DSM IV for Antisocial Personality Disorder, the behavior CANNOT BE CAUSED BY DRUGS to make the diagnosis, and most sociopathic/antisocial behavior I see at the clinic is mostly either drug possession, selling drugs, or doing things such as stealing to maintain a drug habit.......
So basically what Iam trying to say is if drugs were taken out of the equation I dont think the percentage of Sociopaths would be much higher in "treatment programs" and or AA/NA.
But then again, I could be wrong, I do generally give people alot of leeway and the benefit of the doubt before making a surefire diagnosis, an NON MD diagnosis of course, Iam talking about a diagnosis based on my terms and how I would consider somebody to be a "sociopath".
Assuming some people are born with addictive personalities could we possibly redirect a person from alcohol and drugs to say solving puzzles, or painting? If you were to pick one thing to get addicted to otherthan alcohol, drugs, and sex, what would it be? I believe therein lies the answer. Rich, do you have an answer to that question? What would that addiction be for you that society calls your 'life long passion' as opposed to your 'addiction?'
It's a good idea. The problem is like this: once you have been addicted to drugs, people tend to measure everything else in life as is this more fun than getting high? That leads to "well this is fun, but it would be much better high..." People are aware that this thought process is garbage, but just don't care.
i'm addicted to my morning coffee. until the second cup, i'm not fully there. it's only when that familiar buzzing rushing feeling rolls through my body and i recognize myself again, the part i like to think of as the real me, that i'm ready to take on the world,
giving it up for a healthier addiction like jogging would be a bit like being forced to go right from the shower and into the street to run without any clothes on. :-(
the coffee is my mental mascara and lipstick. it's how i put on my face to go out into the world. how it makes me feel is the mirror that lets me know i'm ready.
Sceli- If Iam reading your question right, I think the thing I would most likely want to be addicted to besides alcohol, sex or drugs would probably be helping people overcome their addictions to alcohol or drugs..... Because I have been where they are and I think I could use my experience and empathy to help them out.
I would like to be addicted to helping others, whether it be stopping drugs or alcohol, or living a better life, educating them on sociopaths/psychopaths and how to avoid them....... Stuff like that. Helping people gives me great joy, its almost like a natural "high"
Hmmmm, Iam not so sure Zoe. First, I want to start working...... Than I may go back to College. I graduated with my Associates Degree, and I would like to get a degree in psychology or get whatever you need to be a counselor at a methadone clinic like where I go or something similar to that...... I think that may be my calling.
Think about it like this Rich, that time is going to pass no matter what. So you have to decide if that time passes with you sitting on the sofa, or with you getting your md. Any questions? :)
Rich, your answer is genuine and you sure have the background to do the switch. I'd say you share this with the doctor at the methadone clinic and ask what would be the fastest and easiest way for you to become a help-giver in dealing with drugs. I'd say also check into what military can do for you in terms of giving you the proper education. You may bypass this working at some job idea as opposed to a job or education that takes you to your passion quickly.
because of the salivation. It's like prolonging an orgasm. Target too easy is anti-climactic. A person is a living thing and has a mind of it's own. Much more challenging than a bottle of booze you can just exchange for money.
I am on the 4th day of a juice fast, if anyone is interested in fasting. I have done a 30 day juice fast. I know Eden has done a fast like this, too. It is very healing to your body and mind, if anyone is interested in learning about it. If you are on medication( legal or illegal ~) you should not do it, without supervision. It gives you a natural high and puts your mind in a meditative place
Yea, I don't want to debate it, as I feel it is super healing for body and mind, but have gotten the maturity not to debate things like this with people who have opposing viewpoints xx
I love SW even more than the Friday WSJ crossword puzzle,maybe because the puzzles are harder. For instance, this article seems to disagree entirely with the article and commentary here: http://www.sociopathworld.com/2012/11/sociopaths-in-film-seven-psychopaths.html I guess it just goes to show that M.E. is the master manipulator, becoming and dissolving constantly. I'm a terrific addict, by the way, and it was my last hold-out in thinking "I'm not like THEM." Just kidding, don't want to hurt any sociopathic non-feelings out there.
The following is, of course, purely fictional and intended as humor:
Feeling bored? Impulsive? Not caring a lot? Really want to go for a joyride in that running vehicle left unattended in the parking lot?
Well, worry no more! From the same chemists who brought you MDPV, it's a-PVP, right from the comfort of your home! Have it shipped overnight! No longer will you feel the urge to slash your neighbor's tires, or set their garbage can on fire! Nagging wife? Take a bump and you could care even less than you did before! Get your a-PVP today, and stay out of jail!
Warning: May cause you to stay awake binging for an entire week of amphetamine psychosis.
as a sociopath im always looking for stimulation and i always want to try new things, think thats why i started doing drugs but when that stimulation became so monotone i stoped using them i really think i was a drug addict, but it was so easy to leave them im not so sure now.
I have always been really interested in drugs (of all kinds). I have experimented with them, used them, and abused them. At any time, whenever I wanted to quit, it was never a struggle (so maybe I was never addicted). All I had to do was make that decision and then stay focused on maintaining that decision. It had nothing to do with what we call willpower or exerting muscle tension to keep the idea of using out of my mind. It just had to do with sustained focus on maintaining what it is I wanted (in this case what I wanted was the sense of being free, my happiness not depending on a particular substance.) This is just how it works for me.
Also, you can connect to the spiritual essence of any drug (and its qualities) just by thinking about it. Focusing your attention on it, and it will clean you.
I am a male psychopath who kinda has a thing for dating female sociopaths (I would prefer female psychopaths, but we are seemingly much harder to find, at least for me). Anyway, point is, that in my 30-some odd years of life and many many many sociopathic gfs I have run into to this addiction issue constantly and I really don't know how to help them. It seems to be true that in fact I (for all of the reasons discussed above) am just not as prone to the addiction even in a side-by-side comparison. I just don't like anything controlling me like that and THAT is why I turn away. This logic just doesn't seem to be enough for sociopaths though ... none does. I bring this up guys mostly because I currently have a 5 month pregnant sociopathic gf who is staying clean for the baby (and I have seen that before yes) ... but .... what am I gonna do 4 months from now when that basis for abstention is eliminated .... I love the girl, please help and advise me ...
My son Kevin was a sociopath I am sure. He died of a fentanyl overdose at 19. What was unusual in relation to that was that he had been using percocet/oxycodone/rockocet pills for years but we (my brother and I and my dad while he was still alive) did not know that. We just thought he was using mj/thc, alcohol, and elavil. I did notice that my son was very accident prone and relatively indifferent to certain sorts of pain, such as being bitten by a girl when he was 4, not commenting on the cold when I gave him insufficient gloves for while, getting beaten up be 3/4 black guys to the point of having multiplle facial fractures and 3 dislodged teeth. He went down on the ground and picked up an avulsed tooth and put it back in his mouth. They never got him down and he never gave up the bike. Though my son said he looked angry in a photo at the hospital his rendition of the incident was very deadpan and unemotional though he did say he would not behave that way again in terms of standing his ground like that. I think that sociopaths/pychopaths are warriors/fighters and are basically designed to thrive in times of chaos and conflict and also do well when relatively anonymous. They are not out for relationships and responsible civilians occupations.
A reader writes:
I think surrounding play a vital role in the odds of a sociopathic person away from such things and if you can grasp the ugly truth of addiction before you ever experience it yourself, then empath or socio, you can sway those odds.
ReplyDeleteDon’t get me wrong, when compared to a empath, I have much larger underlying risk factor to the probability of becoming an addict to any vice, more so then any empath I know and as a rule, I think someone with sociopathic traits is automatically prone to become an addict, though there are exceptions to that rule. I think that if you are aware of the psychological impact addiction plays and are at least moderately aware of your own nature then you can avoid such unmerited drama, unless you’ve found yourself addicted to the dramatic rush, in which case you might be fucked.
But I grew up watching all those addiction videos and while they actually made me want to try drugs more then convincing me of sobriety as a more fulfilling alternative, it was the fact that while I was watching these poorly made propaganda films, I was surrounded by addicts in their agonizing transition to becoming sober…and it was my developmental stages in that unflinching environment that I attribute to my never having done any hardcore drugs.
However, those videos covered on drugs and alcohol. I’ve found I am an addictive gambler, thankfully as ME said… “I can tell when something is too good to be good for me.” And I corrected that surprisingly fast, considering I normally suffer an inability to change until it’s almost too late. So I think that while my surroundings played a part in me not being a junkie, the lack of knowledge about gambling proves that I have an addictive personality all the same and I’ll leave as much of the drama of addiction to the queen of hearts as I can and shuffle that bitch as far away as I can, if you know what I mean.
It seems to me that sociopaths and addicts both suffer from dysfunctional judgment regarding risk and reward.
ReplyDeleteThe junkie, because the high is 10x better than anything else he can experience in life.
The sociopath, because negative experiences aren't properly internalized, perhaps not even properly experienced.
Both can understand the consequences logically, but their failure to internalize leaves them both fighting powerful urges, armed with nothing but an abstract, intellectual idea of what indulgence may lead to.
That's my take.
I agree with that
DeleteOh, and yes, I think sociopaths are much more likely to become addicts.
ReplyDeleteDrug addiction is one of the most dangerous and harmful addiction a person can get addicted to.
ReplyDeletedrugs are bad mmmkay
ReplyDeletei think that primary psychopaths are less lightly to get into troble with the law and less lightly to get into troble with drugs and alcohole
ReplyDeleteI dont know about that, have you ever read "The Mask Of Sanity" Most of the cases of the primary psychopaths involved alcohol and drinking alcoholically and getting in trouble/arrested while being very drunk.
Deleteofc that was one of the books that was based on prison data but pimairy sociopaths are seposed to have better controle than secondairy right
DeleteFrom what I have read yes Primary Psychopaths are less impulsive and more able to deter instant gratification than secondary psychopaths.
DeleteAlso, Hervey Cleckley didnt write that book from prison data, it was written about his patients in a private psychiatric hospital, which is why you see that alot of his patients families are wealthy, because they are the only people who can afford such treatment for such long periods of time in private psychiatric institutions.
Maybe a person with the most diverse addictions at once is less at risk for self destruction. ADD personality, flitting back and forth, maybe.
DeleteExcessive need for stimulation..
'Addict' comes from Latin 'addictus', which, in Roman law, meant "a debtor awarded as a slave to his creditor."
ReplyDelete'Addict' comes from Latin 'addictus', which, in Roman law, meant "a debtor awarded as a slave to his creditor."
ReplyDeleteConsider how junkies steal and rob to feed their addictions.
DeleteThese behavioural changes aren't surprising when you understand where it's coming from.
Wow, that is pretty interesting and makes alot of sense. It's basically a metaphor of drug addiction.
DeleteHow are you doing, today, Fake Medusa?
ReplyDelete:) Good Morning Sociopathworld!!!!!
ReplyDeleteOh lord, I think there may be quite a few questions headed my way today.......
My take, as somebody who was addicted to short acting opiates but am now on methadone (long acting opiate) I have been to the meetings at my clinic and I dont nessicarily think there are more sociopaths overall......
Honestly, it is really hard to say because if one reads the DSM IV for Antisocial Personality Disorder, the behavior CANNOT BE CAUSED BY DRUGS to make the diagnosis, and most sociopathic/antisocial behavior I see at the clinic is mostly either drug possession, selling drugs, or doing things such as stealing to maintain a drug habit.......
So basically what Iam trying to say is if drugs were taken out of the equation I dont think the percentage of Sociopaths would be much higher in "treatment programs" and or AA/NA.
But then again, I could be wrong, I do generally give people alot of leeway and the benefit of the doubt before making a surefire diagnosis, an NON MD diagnosis of course, Iam talking about a diagnosis based on my terms and how I would consider somebody to be a "sociopath".
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAssuming some people are born with addictive personalities could we possibly redirect a person from alcohol and drugs to say solving puzzles, or painting? If you were to pick one thing to get addicted to otherthan alcohol, drugs, and sex, what would it be? I believe therein lies the answer. Rich, do you have an answer to that question? What would that addiction be for you that society calls your 'life long passion' as opposed to your 'addiction?'
ReplyDeleteIt's a good idea. The problem is like this: once you have been addicted to drugs, people tend to measure everything else in life as is this more fun than getting high? That leads to "well this is fun, but it would be much better high..." People are aware that this thought process is garbage, but just don't care.
Deletei'm addicted to my morning coffee. until the second cup, i'm not fully there. it's only when that familiar buzzing rushing feeling rolls through my body and i recognize myself again, the part i like to think of as the real me, that i'm ready to take on the world,
Deletegiving it up for a healthier addiction like jogging would be a bit like being forced to go right from the shower and into the street to run without any clothes on. :-(
the coffee is my mental mascara and lipstick. it's how i put on my face to go out into the world. how it makes me feel is the mirror that lets me know i'm ready.
Sceli- If Iam reading your question right, I think the thing I would most likely want to be addicted to besides alcohol, sex or drugs would probably be helping people overcome their addictions to alcohol or drugs..... Because I have been where they are and I think I could use my experience and empathy to help them out.
DeleteI would like to be addicted to helping others, whether it be stopping drugs or alcohol, or living a better life, educating them on sociopaths/psychopaths and how to avoid them....... Stuff like that. Helping people gives me great joy, its almost like a natural "high"
cool :-)
DeleteThank you Zoe!!!
DeleteAlso, If your morning coffee is your worst addiction, I dont think you have anything to worry about. You'll be fine :)
i'm more obsessive than addictive, i guess.
Deleteso, what are your plans for your next addiction, rich?
i think if you really want something forming a plan is half the battle to getting there.
DeleteHmmmm, Iam not so sure Zoe. First, I want to start working...... Than I may go back to College. I graduated with my Associates Degree, and I would like to get a degree in psychology or get whatever you need to be a counselor at a methadone clinic like where I go or something similar to that...... I think that may be my calling.
Delete:)
If you have a passion for something, which you,obviously, do for this, it is your calling, in my experience. You are doing so well, Rich!
Delete:) Awwww thank you Monica!!!!! Iam touched!!!!!!
DeleteIve also considered going after an actual M.D. but Iam a little too intimidated by the time :(
You would be one sexy doctor.
Deletewell it sounds like you have the plan. just focus on one step at a time and put all your energy into it.
DeleteLMAO!!!! Thank you Monica!!!!!
DeleteThank you too Zoe, unfortunatly for me, it is alot easier said than done ;)
Think about it like this Rich, that time is going to pass no matter what. So you have to decide if that time passes with you sitting on the sofa, or with you getting your md. Any questions? :)
DeleteRich, your answer is genuine and you sure have the background to do the switch. I'd say you share this with the doctor at the methadone clinic and ask what would be the fastest and easiest way for you to become a help-giver in dealing with drugs. I'd say also check into what military can do for you in terms of giving you the proper education. You may bypass this working at some job idea as opposed to a job or education that takes you to your passion quickly.
Deletei met a young man straight out of military. Govt is paying 90% of degree in nursing at best school in my town. He will be a surgical nurse.
Deletemanipulating/charming people mutch more fun drugs don't do jack for me
ReplyDeletei don't understand why it's fun
DeleteI dont understand why it would be fun either...... But than again, Iam not a Psychopath/Sociopath.......
Deleteit seems like work
Deletebecause of the salivation. It's like prolonging an orgasm. Target too easy is anti-climactic. A person is a living thing and has a mind of it's own. Much more challenging than a bottle of booze you can just exchange for money.
DeleteI am on the 4th day of a juice fast, if anyone is interested in fasting. I have done a 30 day juice fast. I know Eden has done a fast like this, too. It is very healing to your body and mind, if anyone is interested in learning about it. If you are on medication( legal or illegal ~) you should not do it, without supervision. It gives you a natural high and puts your mind in a meditative place
ReplyDeleteSigh. Fasting is bullshit and merely a quick fix if you are doing it for health reasons. It is not good for the body.
DeleteDoing it for strictly ascetic or spiritual reasons is another matter.
Eh fuck it, I have no interest in debate about it so nevermind.
DeleteYea, I don't want to debate it, as I feel it is super healing for body and mind, but have gotten the maturity not to debate things like this with people who have opposing viewpoints xx
DeleteNew Theme for Rich
ReplyDeleteI love SW even more than the Friday WSJ crossword puzzle,maybe because the puzzles are harder. For instance, this article seems to disagree entirely with the article and commentary here: http://www.sociopathworld.com/2012/11/sociopaths-in-film-seven-psychopaths.html
ReplyDeleteI guess it just goes to show that M.E. is the master manipulator, becoming and dissolving constantly.
I'm a terrific addict, by the way, and it was my last hold-out in thinking "I'm not like THEM." Just kidding, don't want to hurt any sociopathic non-feelings out there.
The following is, of course, purely fictional and intended as humor:
ReplyDeleteFeeling bored? Impulsive? Not caring a lot? Really want to go for a joyride in that running vehicle left unattended in the parking lot?
Well, worry no more! From the same chemists who brought you MDPV, it's a-PVP, right from the comfort of your home! Have it shipped overnight! No longer will you feel the urge to slash your neighbor's tires, or set their garbage can on fire! Nagging wife? Take a bump and you could care even less than you did before! Get your a-PVP today, and stay out of jail!
Warning: May cause you to stay awake binging for an entire week of amphetamine psychosis.
as a sociopath im always looking for stimulation and i always want to try new things, think thats why i started doing drugs
ReplyDeletebut when that stimulation became so monotone i stoped using them
i really think i was a drug addict, but it was so easy to leave them im not so sure now.
I have always been really interested in drugs (of all kinds). I have experimented with them, used them, and abused them. At any time, whenever I wanted to quit, it was never a struggle (so maybe I was never addicted). All I had to do was make that decision and then stay focused on maintaining that decision. It had nothing to do with what we call willpower or exerting muscle tension to keep the idea of using out of my mind. It just had to do with sustained focus on maintaining what it is I wanted (in this case what I wanted was the sense of being free, my happiness not depending on a particular substance.) This is just how it works for me.
ReplyDeleteAlso, you can connect to the spiritual essence of any drug (and its qualities) just by thinking about it. Focusing your attention on it, and it will clean you.
DeleteDoes anyone else have this gnawing sense of emptiness that constantly prevents them from obtaining clarity?
DeleteI am a male psychopath who kinda has a thing for dating female sociopaths (I would prefer female psychopaths, but we are seemingly much harder to find, at least for me). Anyway, point is, that in my 30-some odd years of life and many many many sociopathic gfs I have run into to this addiction issue constantly and I really don't know how to help them. It seems to be true that in fact I (for all of the reasons discussed above) am just not as prone to the addiction even in a side-by-side comparison. I just don't like anything controlling me like that and THAT is why I turn away. This logic just doesn't seem to be enough for sociopaths though ... none does.
ReplyDeleteI bring this up guys mostly because I currently have a 5 month pregnant sociopathic gf who is staying clean for the baby (and I have seen that before yes) ... but .... what am I gonna do 4 months from now when that basis for abstention is eliminated .... I love the girl, please help and advise me ...
My son Kevin was a sociopath I am sure. He died of a fentanyl overdose at 19. What was unusual in relation to that was that he had been using percocet/oxycodone/rockocet pills for years but we (my brother and I and my dad while he was still alive) did not know that. We just thought he was using mj/thc, alcohol, and elavil. I did notice that my son was very accident prone and relatively indifferent to certain sorts of pain, such as being bitten by a girl when he was 4, not commenting on the cold when I gave him insufficient gloves for while, getting beaten up be 3/4 black guys to the point of having multiplle facial fractures and 3 dislodged teeth. He went down on the ground and picked up an avulsed tooth and put it back in his mouth. They never got him down and he never gave up the bike. Though my son said he looked angry in a photo at the hospital his rendition of the incident was very deadpan and unemotional though he did say he would not behave that way again in terms of standing his ground like that. I think that sociopaths/pychopaths are warriors/fighters and are basically designed to thrive in times of chaos and conflict and also do well when relatively anonymous. They are not out for relationships and responsible civilians occupations.
ReplyDelete