"Guilt? It's this mechanism we use to control people. It's an illusion. It's a kind of social control mechanism -- and it's very unhealthy. It does terrible things to our bodies. And there are much better ways to control our behavior than that rather extraordinary use of guilt."-- Ted Bundy
I agree completely with him about guilt, though I can’t recall ever actually feeling it, but having seen many people devastated by it, I think its something best not experienced.
ReplyDeleteBesides, I honestly think that had Ted not been a serial killer, he could have been hugely successful and just as famous—rather than become nothing and infamous. The man clearly had a brain and knew how to carry himself. But he was consumed by unhealthy habits that lead to his own demise.
This is a very sociopathic view of guilt, all right. What it fails to grasp is that to those who see the "illusion" of guilt as reality, treat it as such. For them, it may as well be reality. And since the largest majority think this way, you have to bring guilt into your reality in order to understand the reality of society.
ReplyDeleteThe socio in my life loves to make people feel guilty by making them feel sorry for him. He isn't a success financially and he blames life stuff on everyone else. But I can see how the guilt of his shallow behaviors have affected his body and now that he's older..his mind. His techniques are getting old and boring and maybe that why he feels it more now.
ReplyDeleteGrace
Anon Above @8:18...
ReplyDeleteIf this socio in your life is in fact, a socio, then this guilt you speak of isn't affecting his body at all. What makes a socio different is they don't feel guilt. They have no idea what it is and so they can't feel it. And almost for sure, his techniques aren't causing him to feel it anymore now then before.
C was spot on about the failure to realize the reality of the emotion, if you can call it that, because socios fail to recognize any emotions that they themselves do not possess. It be like a human understanding a parrot gawking, sure the parrot can mimic certain things back, but neither one is actually capable of relating to the other. Socios are, for the most part, emotional parrots…and guilt is one of those things they can know how to wield to get a cracker, but they don’t understand it.
To the socios who might take offense to that comparison, it wasn’t meant to be an insult.
Maybe he's tired of being who he is or who he isn't..not emotionally but his intellect might be telling him something. Something is getting him. Or maybe he just isn't getting his way. He thinks no one can understand him and he claims he feels empty. But if he can't feel guilt then maybe he feels consequences..not sure. And he changes from day to day but lately it's the dark half. Thank you for the comment.
ReplyDeleteTed Bundy was an interesting character. I have a copy of "Ted Bundy-Conversations with a Killer"..it was a good read. I remember reading somewhere he was obsessed with having a specific number of clean, grey wool sox at all times. Lol. Also, his favorite method of stealing things was to walk into a store, grab something and walk out with the conviction firmly planted in his mind that "I own this." He said he took great pride in the things he had acquired for himself in that way...what a nut.
ReplyDeleteYou sure he isn't just a cold hearted bipolar jerk?
ReplyDeleteI mean, why must every dickhead boyfriend/husband/ex/whatever be labeled a sociopath by their insignificant other?
Because honestly, there aren't that many of us…even with the 1 - 5% of the population theory, it means that out of 100 claims, that roughly 5 at the most are actually socios. The label isn’t as accurate as people think. Even most of the self proclaimed socios wouldn’t meet the diagnoses criteria if they were evaluated by a professional. Shit, I had the unfortunate pleasure of being evaluated and tagged with the term. I don’t think it fits or is even a disorder, but people keep saying it is.
The truth is that normal guys/girls can be dicks/bitches who don’t give a shit about you or your feelings and not be an actual sociopath. People in general are monsters, we just don’t lose sleep over it like most people.
You sure he isn't just a cold hearted bipolar jerk?
Deletethis made me lol. I've been here for nearly a decade (in my mind) and i 'd love to think i'm consistently an unaware cold-hearted bitch. Is there even such a thing?
Oh yeah, my narc mother says this abt herself.
she is an aware cold hearted bitch. she brags about it and prides herself/brags outloud to me on it.
DeleteI enjoyed that last sentence just a little too much.
DeleteI know what your saying. But he is and I have been warned about him by his ex-wife but I didn't believe her. And I know he has a violent past..there are other factors too. I have made some comments here already and I'm getting the feedback. He owes me money and started to send me some so I'm just going through the motions of letting go of him. But I feel like owing money is a way to keep me around in case..and visa vera. I also understand that I have more problems with myself than I thought so I'm part responsible too for this whole crap relationship.
ReplyDeleteGrace
What on earth would make you doubt whether Ted Bundy was a psychopath? Just because it's not a common disorder? Statistics don't mean shit to the individual.
ReplyDeleteWhoops, 11:02 am didn't show up on my feed, and I thought the comments were being replied to in order. My apologies.
ReplyDeleteNo, its kind of my bad C, I addressed my first comment to the anon, of whom I didn’t spot the Grace at the end. My comment wasn’t about Bundy, or his legitimacy. Had I clarified who I was addressing it would’ve saved you the time and energy. lol
ReplyDelete@Grace. You were warned? No One ever believes the ex. Thats not your fault, thats just the way it is. He may/may not be a socipath. Maybe he just has some traits. If you have children....keep watch over them. And keep it business between the dad and you. They may develop this way too....because #1 genetics....#2 in a way, you may view it as normal behavior...as you put up with his father...
ReplyDeleteIf you dont have children....cut your money loses, and bail. Keeping the foot in the door....does nothing for you. Think on that for a while.
Guilt is the emotion you display when you get caught. An unecessary part of life if you are cunning enough with your marks. Though the impulses toward certain behaviors are sometimes strong enough to cause potential problems. I like my little secret to remain just that among those I know, keeping my frustration and impulsive behavior in check allows me to appear more than normal. They see me as such a kind, generous, friendly person. My deepest and darkest thoughts would make their faces pale and it thrills me to no end that I walk freely among them unnoticed.
ReplyDeleteOh yeah, and that use of guilt to reinforce the norms of society and dictate another person's thoughts or actions is like vanilla ice cream... standard and plain, but an everlasting classic flavor.
...keeping my frustration and impulsive behavior in check allows me to appear more than normal. They see me as such a kind, generous, friendly person.
ReplyDeleteSame; which pretty much counters most peoples' idea that any asshole ex must be a psychopath, because it simply isn't true. Those who know me personally know little of my history, so all they have to judge by are my actions at present. I've been told that I'm one of the most humble, sympathetic, and diplomatic people they've ever met.
i have much in common with these 2 above posters. But i never come across as an an asshole until they do something over my boundary line. They will say they didnt see it coming. When i dont look back i dont feel guilt. I feel like i've made a choice to take care of myself. It makes me feel good to know this. So thank you to whoever wrote that years ago.
DeleteI have to keep my behavior in check too. Don't know if I'm doing a good job of that right now..but I'm trying. Many people do and some don't or can't.
ReplyDeleteI can't convince you that my ex is anything at all. I can only tell you my experience with him and what I have been told and now what I have read. That's all I have to go on. But I can be pretty objective when I need to be and put my feelings and perspective aside..but not for long. I'm pretty sure he is a sociopath and not necessarily an asshole. I may be more of an asshole for getting involved with him in the first place. He's sending me money so I just keep it very light with him.
And if I have to cut my loses I will. But for today it's ok.
Grace
Grace, if he were to be a socio, then why would he send you money if you already broke up/divorced with him? There would be no point of sending money unless he has hopes to get back togather, which from the sounds of it does not seem very likely. He is either an extremely stupid socio, or he is just a normal empath. Much mire likely to be the second one.
ReplyDeleteHe's an ex-bf. He is sending money now because my ex-husb. threatened him. I mean that's as of last week. But he did communicate with me the other night how much he is suffering from his behaviors. He told me he will never be happy and he holds back so much of himself and doesn't talk about his bad thoughts and pasts, which I know was a violent one, and how he is empty..this is all recent. But the downfall of the relationship was all my fault according to him. He, for whatever reason, got a bit honest with me...it relates to today's post. I think he's tired of trying to get peoples attenton..trying to get sympathy from people. Everyone is tired of him and use to his games. No one trusts him in his family. So I don't know...ever since he opened up a little to me then I told him something about myself and then he opened up more..and now I haven't heard from him since then..a few days ago. I have told this story all over this website and people have been great about commenting on it. I understand more each time and yet I get confused too..so I don't know anymore. But's it's a process and I just go with the flow and hope I get paid. He threatens suicide from time to time..I don't think he means it..he just wants attention from me cause he knows it bothers me to hear that sort of stuff.
ReplyDeleteGrace
Grace,
ReplyDeleteWith all due respect, you are overanalyzing your situation. Whether emapth or sociopath, he is manipulating you. He is able to keep you as part of his life, serving either emotional or practical needs. If he's a socio, maybe he wants to keep you around in case a relationship with you becomes convenient again or perhaps he's bored? Maybe he wants you to feed his ego. Either way, he's playing you and quite well. Listen to you, singing his sad, sad tune.
A friend of mine is very much like this. After a failed attempt at a relationship, they would go for weeks without speaking a word to me, and then send me a message about how lonely they were, inevitably leading up to some request for a sexual favor, even though they had no real desire to be with me. This continued for some months. At first it was insulting; then I used it to my advantage until the situation changed. However, it quickly became more trouble than it was worth, and I cut them off completely.
Cut your losses. His "feelings" are his business.
I did that to either a self aware socio or a self aware narc. He doesn't dare respond to me again. has books on being sadistic with highlighted the passages and calls himself evil.
DeleteI am really glad he/i am gone. What a toxic mess for us both.
I agree with C, this guy is definately controlling you. If you had any brains, you would have cut him off completely. Unless it's for th money (which is most likely not much) it still is trivial. And your ex-husband threatened him? Why doesn't he sue and make money and stop sending you some? This situation is just incomprehensible. He is obviously not a socio at all. He also is fucking stupid. I have a quesion for you, do you all live in the same trailer park, or in seperate ones?
ReplyDeleteNo..my husband just told him to deal with him now and not me about the money..I wasn't clear with the way I put that. He just sent him a text saying stop communicating with him me and just deal with him, my husband. I'm just angry so I used the word threatened. But it was nothing like that. He owes me a grand and sent 100. yes he did control me your right about that. I'm a science/math major but I guess this is out of my league.
ReplyDeleteBut I'm learning. I like when people are straight with me..it hits me hard and I learn.
Grace.
One grand? That's it?
ReplyDeleteyup. that's not a lot? .I'm a student so to me it's a lot. What's a grand to me might not be to you. disagree? I know if I owed it to him he would make sure i was paying..but what am i saying..he would have never given me a dime.
ReplyDeleteGrace
If he was a socio...he would have never given you a dime...let alone $100.
ReplyDeleteI'm such a people pleaser I wouldn't have ever asked to borrow money..but if I did and didn't pay he would take one of his 10 guns and shoot me. Know what I mean? One time he put his hands around my neck just playing around but it started to hurt and when I looked at him he had this cold look to him and it was as if ,for a sec, he couldn't stop himself. But my ex-husb is around and taking care of this for me. Im not involved anymore with this dude. I guess no matter how it is..it's crazy.
ReplyDeleteGrace
Grace, you're story is starting to sound fake. Every time you get on here, you add something generically dangerous. What's more, you are coming at it with all the maturity of a 20-something-year-old. I'm guessing it's on the lower side of that spectrum. You are trying to get some kind of validation for being involved with a sociopath and coming out alive. Really, it's just not that big of a deal.
ReplyDeleteIt's just my experience. There's nothing fake about it. And it was a big deal to me. I didn't understand any of this stuff but I do now. But in a few weeks it will not be a big deal..it will pass.I don't know what you mean by generically dangerous. He was dangerous but not obviously dangerous and everytime time I read posts here and comments it makes me think about what went on in the relationship and how it wasn't a normal one. My age has nothing to do with it.
ReplyDeleteGrace
" He was dangerous but not obviously dangerous"
ReplyDeleteThat's right. In retrospect.. He covered up his true self but every once in a while I would see something that would confuse me and I just thought he was a tough guy..a wish guy..I think you know what I mean. Thank you for your comments though.
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You come to a site called sociopath world, you read a thread which discusses among other things, how sociopaths never repay money, then you issue an invitation for us to borrow money from you?
DeleteNormal folks get all upset when a socio says that a mark deserved what they got for being too stupid to see it coming, but you are pretty much asking for it.
It is my hope that every internet scammer comes at you with stolen identities and fleeces you silly.
If this happens, please post an account of how all you friends laugh at you and you cry your self to sleep as I shall be highly entertained by it.
"Normal folks get all upset when a socio says that a mark deserved what they got for being too stupid to see it coming, but you are pretty much asking for it."
Deleteagree.
I will sometimes tell people i am cold hearted bitch. It is a protective mechanism so i can build wall when they leave. i can say in the end that i told them so, but it is a mistake.
349 am
Deletewhy do you advise and warn "victims" if you are the way you are?
It is REALLY entertaining ??
I am guessing yes.
Saw an episode of Hannibal. THe "helping" psycho warned the criminal out of control socio and salivated as the socio ended up killing his whole family and going down.
O this show, the EMpath and socio fight crime together, yet the psycho gets off and the empath has agitation.
I think i saw the psycho laugh inside his body.
Does ye have a flat affect ? Or is ye the one who plays games ?
i remember ppl telling i if i had the guts to do sometrhing wrong i should have the guts to own up to it.
ReplyDeletedoing something wrong is fun. Doing something wrong and getting away with it is more fun. doing something worng and giving someone els the blame is even more fun.
DeleteI do it and i actually thing it's sad, not dumb. It's a pretty lonely feeling.
DeleteGuilt must actually be quite an useful mechanism of control, at least better than Ted Bunty's, according to the life he led and how he ended up.
ReplyDeleteGuilt, what narcissistic parents instill in their children:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.bandbacktogether.com/adult-children-of-Narcissistic-parents-resources/
THank you very much, Guilt by parents
Delete"choose to keep measured contact with your Narcissistic Parent, be very sure to follow some strict, clear guidelines:
Create very clear boundaries. Don't reward your parent for crossing them. Be clear, but firm. If they show up unannounced, explain nicely that you are too busy to visit with them.
Shield your own children from their Narcissistic Grandparent. They do not need to be exposed to their toxic behaviors."
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My father figure taught me this. Unf he was narcissistic, but he finally got free of my mother. He did not even come to my wedding and i had to forgive him for putting boundary up from my mother.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Rather than explain that you do not want to hear their advice, echo and mirror whatever the Narcissistic Parent says. Do whatever you'd planned to do anyway.
-------------------------------
yes.
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Go through a third party as your Narcissistic Parent ages - do not allow them to rely upon you and you alone as they need care.
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THankully this wont be a problem.
Provide information on a "need to know" basis only. Just because your Narcissistic Parent tells you everything doesn't mean you must reciprocate.
---------------------------------
Unfortunately, my nephew may suffer his whole life with frustration. He already hates talk shows where republicans and demos argue. It hurts him. He lives with shitflingers and has learned to fling his own shit. He withdraws and has confidence issues and even hates when people point out his feelings are valid.
His mother will not even google anything about this dynamic. she is another most inconsiderate person creating another damaged adult.
Ted was really cute. What a waste
ReplyDeleteWho says he was a waste
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteYou don't think he was a waste MBrig. Why not?
DeleteHe could have been a wonderful educator.
DeleteYeah, but he was great at what he has done.
Delete^vague, boring, next^
DeleteThis is funny, coming from a dead guy.
ReplyDeleteI had much rather read an article on how sociopaths use guilt in their manipulation of mind games. But, ah, so telling.
ReplyDeleteaagh. You are baiting. Tis a dirty secret. Being aware makes me feel like a con. NOT proud.
Deletethat is because you have victim mentality and you pretend to use it. But it is losing it's power. Now what?
Deletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_mentality
I'm confused: How was controlling others hard on Bundy's physical body? He was not capable of feeling shame or guilt.
ReplyDeletecognitive dissonance bouncing around the body?
DeleteI think his statement was for others - the rules didn't apply to Bundy.
DeleteHis statement reminds me of how so many people are good at opening doors for others but too afraid to go through themselves. Bundy's statement was "all about him looking good," nothing more."
when you go through a door, it is always wise to leave it cracked open behind you.
Delete^ ?
Deleteopen door policy .. similar to how Monica operates.
DeleteWhen you can hop back and forth you get the best of both worlds. Self manipulation. Very freeing.
Like a vampire of life.
^ wipe that blood off your face !
Delete^ it's permanently stained.
Deletea lil concealer ?
DeleteAnon 12:21
DeleteI call it self mutilation
how come? or are you facetious?
Deleteif there is truth to how you describe, i am interested to know even if it is a stretch.
Yay it's Teddy!
ReplyDeleteHe will visit you in your dreams, tonight. Leave a light on!
ReplyDeleteOh, Teddy bear ..
DeleteDevour Me...
My love !
After I strangle you, silly, you can't enjoy it!
Deleteauto asphyxiation?
Deletelol
Deletehttp://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/4383/50591463.jpg&imgrefurl=http://tehparadox.com/forum/f11/china-dogs-wearing-pantyhose-all-rage-5136516/&h=356&w=587&sz=35&tbnid=O_T7pYx8QXIMXM:&tbnh=68&tbnw=112&zoom=1&usg=__CYpW1acztyMbDbgxoC02fs4PLR4=&docid=oc5M31LAlKQqdM&sa=X&ei=bfVhUfPYI-nh0gGAtYC4Cw&ved=0CFMQ9QEwCA&dur=6194
ReplyDeleteGuilt is not the problem, nor is love, nor even ignorance. The problem is more so something which I believe Frank Herbert picks up on quite well in his lengthy "Godemperor of Dune", in a conversation concerning the use of thinking machines:
ReplyDelete"There's a lesson in that, too. What do such machines really do? They increase the number of things we can do without thinking. Things we do without thinking — there's the real danger."
The underlying problem isn't the emotion, but rather the immediate acceptance of learned automatic responses to stimuli without the benefit of brief introspection.
i would like to be a thing which does without thinking like the man who picks his nose while commuting in public.
ReplyDeleteHmm bad grammar and profanity lol I smell a stereotype
ReplyDeleteGuilt is linked to shame, and shame is a fundamental human emotion that we all NEED to experience in order to becoming individuals who give a shit about others in addition to ourselves. Shame is the internal feeling towards one's self that one has wronged. Guilt is then the external admittance, inspired by shame, which motivates senses of responsibility. Unhealthy shame is possible in both narcissists and borderlines, only with narcissists, they bury the shame and effectively pretend it's not there (therefore, never being able to feel guilty) whereas the borderline revels in their sense of unhealthy shame which allows for their constant self-sabotaging. Bottom line: shame is good; it's adaptive. But only in the right amount--not too much, not too little.
ReplyDeleteGuilt does motivate responsibility, but I think you can just bypass the guilt and get straight to the responsibility.
ReplyDeleteIt is MEANT to motivate responsibility. But very often it does not, because people identify with the feeling.
DeleteNo one but a sociopath understand that of what a sociopath is. Ted bundy, was inspiring to a limit.
ReplyDeletewoow! how true are these words, think such behaviours should be commonly discussed in society. Little did I know the father of my child has been controlling me with guilt!!!! only since I started researching his behaviours the label Sociopath keeps popping up everywhere. could not finding a more fitting description.
ReplyDeletemiss k