The versatility of the human personality is far, far underestimated. We're raised to believe and to put faith in the fact that people are special, that we have some greater meaning of life, and that we serve some purpose of design. Growing up is a process of finding out that it's all bunk; that we really are just animals with animalistic goals and with animal desires. However, by the time we realize this about our lives, we've already spent a long time carefully dividing our conscious from our sub-conscious, instinct from fitting into the social norm, and being socially accepted from being happy. Suppression (sexual as Freud would say) causes the intricacies of the personality to develop through adolescence. Any empath or emotional being would tell you that this separation somehow makes them special. That these intricacies make them unique. In reality, each suppression is met by a compensation of the subconscious, and each compensation is predetermined in our chemical make-up. Jung would call this the collective unconscious, where similar human traits, natures, instincts etc are stored.
What any empath would call a soul, originality, or spirit, the sociopath and reality would call instinct, function, and science. Having no delusions of purpose, the sociopath mind is unclouded by such "human" or "spiritual" demands and simply functions. This function illustrates with regularity what myths and universal themes illustrate on a sociological scale. The sociopath puts people into classifications and predicts their actions as a creation myth presents symbolic representations of the developmental standards that people follow. Recurring themes in stories are recurring subconscious traits. These themes are not coincidence, nor are they when they are implemented on a singular scale.
The sociopath has a very real grasp of reality minus the symbolism. They understand that life as they know it is here for them, their happiness, and their well-being. They never lose too much sight of their instinct because they never try too hard to suppress it. This lack of suppression leaves the aspects of their personality already intact. So while other people are going off discovering their subconcious, and inner self, sociopaths are using their desire for finding meaning and their self deception as a tool to get what they want. This selfishness is not bad, but simply the only good that people can ever really hope to achieve with their life.
While the Empath desperately clings to belief, faith, love, God, meaning and other such trite and worthless sentimentalities, the sociopath has reacted already as nature simply intended them to do. Those who really grow up, grow up to realize that they are merely an assorted amount of traits, factors and actions that nature designed specifically to react specifically to promote life. Those who suppress more of themselves have more sub-conscious reactions, easily exploited.
Versatility is something we are all capable of. The traits compiled by nature are predetermined. Any time you suppress a conscious desire, you replace it with a subconscious reaction. And vice versa. Any time something consciously unbearable happens, your subconscious compensates. Neuroses, compulsions, etc. are examples of sick, overly suppressed minds. Perhaps the healthy versatility of the sociopath is an example of a healthy mind, and the goal in the long run is simply to figure out that it all really meant nothing. Perhaps the sociopath is just farther advanced, or more "naturally" balanced.
What any empath would call a soul, originality, or spirit, the sociopath and reality would call instinct, function, and science. Having no delusions of purpose, the sociopath mind is unclouded by such "human" or "spiritual" demands and simply functions. This function illustrates with regularity what myths and universal themes illustrate on a sociological scale. The sociopath puts people into classifications and predicts their actions as a creation myth presents symbolic representations of the developmental standards that people follow. Recurring themes in stories are recurring subconscious traits. These themes are not coincidence, nor are they when they are implemented on a singular scale.
The sociopath has a very real grasp of reality minus the symbolism. They understand that life as they know it is here for them, their happiness, and their well-being. They never lose too much sight of their instinct because they never try too hard to suppress it. This lack of suppression leaves the aspects of their personality already intact. So while other people are going off discovering their subconcious, and inner self, sociopaths are using their desire for finding meaning and their self deception as a tool to get what they want. This selfishness is not bad, but simply the only good that people can ever really hope to achieve with their life.
While the Empath desperately clings to belief, faith, love, God, meaning and other such trite and worthless sentimentalities, the sociopath has reacted already as nature simply intended them to do. Those who really grow up, grow up to realize that they are merely an assorted amount of traits, factors and actions that nature designed specifically to react specifically to promote life. Those who suppress more of themselves have more sub-conscious reactions, easily exploited.
Versatility is something we are all capable of. The traits compiled by nature are predetermined. Any time you suppress a conscious desire, you replace it with a subconscious reaction. And vice versa. Any time something consciously unbearable happens, your subconscious compensates. Neuroses, compulsions, etc. are examples of sick, overly suppressed minds. Perhaps the healthy versatility of the sociopath is an example of a healthy mind, and the goal in the long run is simply to figure out that it all really meant nothing. Perhaps the sociopath is just farther advanced, or more "naturally" balanced.
Agreed except about sociopaths being more advanced. Everyone has a role in society and the instincts to fullfill that role. Suppression brings issues. Powerless sociopaths not leading their packs start doing self destructive things as much as others not fullfilling their roles.
ReplyDeleteME said, "While the Empath desperately clings to belief, faith, love, God, meaning and other such trite and worthless sentimentalities, the sociopath has reacted already as nature simply intended them to do."
ReplyDeleteFirstly, I dont have belief, faith, God, meaning and other such trite and worthless sentimentalities. Is that even a word??
Yet I am what you consider an empath. Love is the only difference. Love, as simply defined by me, is caring about what happens to another person who holds a special place in my heart.
Secondly, Us "empaths" are also capable of dismissing all the other things as well. This is along the eastern thought train, not western.
Thirdly,you speak about generalizations so often but yet you like to use them at your convenience..
Fourthly, oh wait, theres no fourth.
We evolved the capacity for self control for a reason. Consider the idiot who murdered a man in order to sell his house. He was obviously VERY sociopathic, exhibiting all the traits you just mentioned to an unhealthy extreme.
ReplyDeleteThe man who was in tune with his animal instincts will now likely be caged, just like an animal, for the rest of his life. Fat lot of good his lack of suppression did.
But let's not get caught up in arguing extremes again. The same mechanisms at work in empaths play a role in your own survival. You invent "things" which are "good" and are to be defended as if they were "real." Freedom, for example. What the fuck is freedom? It's nothing. It's nonsense. But freedom gets you what you want, so it takes on an identity of its own and you defend it ferociously.
That's no different from what empaths do with ideas like faith, love, and God. They're just a little more extreme about it. And generally speaking, it makes them a lot happier and more successful than rotting in jail cell for the rest of their lives, over some fucking money, would.
A hardcore sociopath is not advanced at all. He's an extremely simple creature. He wants it, he tries to get it. Very little thought of the consequences. Very little concern for the future. Me want, me take.
The less sociopathic a person is-- to a certain point, anyway--the more advanced they are. When people start killing themselves in the name of God, etc etc, they've obviously crossed the line. But honestly, crossing that line is frequently a good thing, too. It saves nations. It ensures the continued existence of our race.
It's likely the only reason you exist at all.
whoever wrote these shit rebuttals should be comedians, seriously
ReplyDeleteIt's pretty damn simple, retards:
*Humanity is unique in the animal kingdom in that members can think and can carry out their thoughts with their easily-manoeuvred fingers
*This is arguably why we are one of the dominant forms of life on this Earth (disregard insects etc.)
*Higher, logical thought is what creates useful tools and knowledge, which have given us advantages throughout our history
*Emotional thoughts and their ilk only keep us from doing things that would harm our survival (guilt from harming others who are potentially dangerous, anger so others do not take advantage of us)
*Higher thought therefore advances a society, emotional thought merely stabilises it
*Let us assume that one form of thought hinders the other, as people cannot think too many things at once.
*Psychopaths do not feel as broad a spectrum of emotions, and strong emotional reactions often pass quickly
*Psychopaths, though risking their safety in some ways, therefore are more adept at rational thought
*Therefore Psychopaths are more likely to create solutions to what they see (like tools), and to learn from what they see. Therefore, an INTELLIGENT Psychopath (who therefore has a great capacity for thought) will likely understand more, philosophically speaking, than an ordinary person of similar intelligence.
ergo M.E's main point is correct
QED
Do people no longer feel the need to define their terms (i.e. "psychopath"/"sociopath") before making an argument anymore?
ReplyDeleteStrawmen are fairly easy to build. Try again.
Nah QED, your logic is flawed. This isn't a contest between logic and emotion. All logic vs all emotion, logic wins hands down.
ReplyDeleteIt's the combination of logic and emotion that's "advanced," and deviating from the optimum balance is detrimental.
Too much emotion, not enough logic, and you're fucked.
Too much logic, and not enough emotion, and you're fucked.
Logic needs emotion to guide it. If you don't care about anything, you'll wind up getting yourself killed or locked up, either because you don't care if you die or because you didn't care enough to check all the angles. What you cared about most were your base instincts, telling you that you needed to satisfy an urge.
The more sociopathic you are, the closer you are to that pitiful state. I know you want to glorify sociopaths, either because you think you are one or because you think they're really really cool, but you should probably give this a little more thought. I won't hold my breath, though. You probably don't care enough to actually think about it.
wait wait you forgot to put your awesome argument into syllogistic form
ReplyDelete"*Your argument is flawed because I say so
*You think you're a psychopath
*Therefore I am correct"
Note that
1. I put INTELLIGENT in capitals. I was pretty sure you'd skim over most of it, but apparently you don't know what that word means, so you ended up not reading anything I typed up. I'll put it simply for you "dumm saiko go not far buh smarz doo wel"
2. I already mentioned that there are risks to lacking much emotion. But your point makes a lot more sense - "You're fucked."
3. You seem to think psychopathy is a scale. It's a switch. You either have empathy or you don't. "More psychopathic people"? You mean people better at manipulating? Those people are conmen and businessmen. You're basically saying that a fly is more of an insect than a bee "because it's shitter".
4. QED means quod erat demonstrandum. It's not a name. Glad to know you think a lot more about these things than I do.
By the way, I never once said I was a psychopath. But now you think we're "on the same side" you'll act a lot nicer I bet.
"You seem to think psychopathy is a scale. It's a switch. You either have empathy or you don't.
ReplyDeleteanonymous, can you please provide some links/references to the research that supports this. i would like to read more.
OK, QED, I'll break this down into simple bullets you can understand.
ReplyDeleteYour Conclusion: Psychopaths are more advanced.
Your Support: Logic helps advance civilizations, and emotion only helps to stabilize them.
Your Flaw: This isn't a contest between logic and emotion.
Allow me to restate a bit of my last message. The optimal mix of logic and emotion is more advanced than an extreme of either. It's like a well-oiled machine that allows civilization to both exist and advance. That's based on your own assertions, by the way.
Ergo, you are wrong.
FYI, psychopathy is a scale. Like Zoe, I'd like to read something definitively to the contrary. I have Hare's work to back me up on this. Feel free to read up. Plus, well, every other personality trait or disorder exists on a scale. Tiny bit depressed vs very depressed, tiny bit OCD vs very OCD, etc etc so forth and so on. And I've been trying to be nice this whole time, in case you haven't noticed. I haven't called you an idiot or a moron or a fool or dumber than dogshit or anything else I've come to expect from myself. You should be pretty grateful, because you haven't made that easy for me.
This will probably go over your head, and you'll likely reply with a barrage of insults about things you can't comprehend, but I'll post this anyway.
ReplyDeleteI'll let my nerdy side show a little. Think of a balanced empathic mind like a CPU, and a sociopathic mind like a 3D accelerator. The accelerator can handle 3D rendering much, much better than a CPU, but is it more advanced? God no. The CPU can do anything the accelerator can do, as well as support everything that makes 3D graphics possible in the first place. Take away the 3D accelerator, and 3D graphics still exist. If you take away the processor, you lose everything.
The only reason the accelerator does so damn well at rendering is because it lacks everything else the CPU has. In the case of sociopaths, they're missing our evolutionary "general purpose processor," which provides an extra layer of fuzzy-but-powerful processing. In a round-a-bout way, emotions account for variables that neither the sociopath nor the empath would or even could be consciously aware of. They extrapolate rules from abstract systems, and then extrapolate rules from those rules, ad infinitum. Now, it's quite easy for the resulting information to be terribly wrong, but emotion has a safeguard built in: pain. Pain is powerful. It can take something you once thought was wonderful, and in an instant, transform it into something terrible. Reality normalizes the fundamental assumptions created through emotional learning, and the benefit to all of this is that an empath can behave almost as if he understands a complex situation when, in fact, he does not. The situation could possibly even be so complex that the human mind in general could not comprehend every detail of it, yet the rules abstracted from rules abstracted from rules could give the empath the tools he needs to tackle the situation--without even thinking.
This functions on the scale of the individual as well on the massive scale of civilization, and I guarantee you it's one of the key reasons why humans have dominated the earth. If every human throughout history had been a sociopath, nobody would have dedicated their life to advancing the human race. They'd have been too busy focusing on building up their own personal glory and comfort, quite frequently at the expense of others--others who could have been contributing as well. The result of this conflict is that two people who could have been focusing their energy on goals that ultimately benefit the race as a whole, waste a significant portion of it on their personal struggles for power.
Sociopaths are capable of doing great things, but usualy it's a result of the whims of empaths. They follow empath causes because it works out better for them in the end, but they have no capacity to create or sustain these causes themselves. In the same way that the 3D accelerator merely processes instructions from the CPU, the sociopath is incapable of doing anything significant without the influence of emotional thinking.
Now, if we were to look at "advancement" as a personal spiritual journey, a struggle for understanding, then yes, a sociopath could be considered more "advanced," in the same way that a 3D accelerator has a more "advanced" capacity for processing 3D graphics. But if we think of advancement as a measure of a thing's complexity and general usefulness, the sociopath comes up very short.
Peter, did you put on glasses while writing that comment above for the full effect?
ReplyDeleteJokes aside:
I think you're both correct on some points.
The sociopath is more advanced in that they can understand things without emotional strings attached. However, as Peter elegantly put it, "Logic needs emotion to guide it. If you don't care about anything, you'll wind up getting yourself killed or locked up, either because you don't care if you die or because you didn't care enough to check all the angles. What you cared about most were your base instincts, telling you that you needed to satisfy an urge."
So, in other words, yes a sociopath is advanced in some manners. However, if a sociopath is completely devoid of emotion/care they will be unadvanced because their logic is not being guided by anything.
You can be the greatest tennis player ever, but there's no point in being so great if you don't have a racket.
Yep, and a pocket protector. My neighbor's pocket protector. I never talk to him. Ever.
ReplyDeletePeter, did your neighbor give you that pocket protector?
ReplyDeleteOr are you admitting to theft of a pocket protector? Which, of course, is of grand importance in our vast universe and cosmos.
I found it in my room. He broke in and put it there. He's lucky I don't call the cops. So fucking lucky.
ReplyDeletePeter, your deflection skills get better each day.
ReplyDeleteSome day, young grasshopper, you shall learn true deflection.
Peter, could the same things you said regarding emotions be said of religion or spirituality? Don't sociopaths have emotions?
ReplyDeleteI believe in God. I like God a lot, but do I really love him?!! LoL my facebook has a picture of Jesus wearing eighties pance. Its silly.
ReplyDeleteSociopaths have no emotions?????!! So are they like the terminator??!! I love that movie! Lol.
"pance"?
ReplyDeleteTinkerbelle, you seem like a vapid cunt. Want to be facebook friends?
ReplyDeleteWhile the Empath desperately clings to belief, faith, love, God, meaning and other such trite and worthless sentimentalities, the sociopath has reacted already as nature simply intended them to do.
ReplyDeletepeople cling to science too
Perhaps the healthy versatility of the sociopath is an example of a healthy mind, and the goal in the long run is simply to figure out that it all really meant nothing. Perhaps the sociopath is just farther advanced, or more "naturally" balanced.
maybe advanced. definitely at an advantage, because his/her mind is not clouded with emotion.
but suppressing the unbearable may be an advantage that allows the empath to live out a life of illusion. maybe neuroses and compulsions are small price to pay for dreaming your way through life?
Zoe said, "maybe neuroses and compulsions are small price to pay for dreaming your way through life?"
ReplyDeleteIf it were a uniformly pleasant dream I’d be inclined to agree. That is not the case however. As you clearly see for yourself, normal folk, on average, aren’t exactly poster children for joyful living. If ignorance (illusion) is bliss, why aren’t more of them happier than they are?
point taken. i think a lot of it is due to advertising and marketing. joyful and content folk do not make good little consumers. so okay they are still dreamers but dreaming their way through an unsatisfied life that is so colourful with emotion it does not allow much intellectual depth.
ReplyDeletei think i would rather be miserable and aware of the cause of my misery than miserable and deluded. would you say that sociopaths are happier then?
Zoe said, “i think i would rather be miserable and aware of the cause of my misery than miserable and deluded.”
ReplyDeleteYup. It’s the difference between an awake human and a happy pig. The pig may be “happy” in the mud and the slop, but it is still a pig.
No, I don’t know if sociopaths are happier or not. I suppose one could make a convincing argument that they are, but only by virtue of what they cannot perceive, which is the full spectrum of emotion. In any event, I’m starting to believe that the pursuit of happiness is a red herring anyway.
No one I wouldn't like to be friends with someone who's so rude! No one, I would never consider putting you on my facebook!
ReplyDeleteDaniel pigs are cute, miserable people like sociopaths are scary. I think I would rather be a piglet though because they are way cuter. LoL!
^Wow. That is a really bad impersonation of Tinkerbelle. If that’s what you’re up to, that is. But meh, whatever.
ReplyDeleteOn a related note, I don’t like pigs. The only pig I like is a dead pig. Bacon, to be precise. Daniel loves his bacon! Wait, something about that didn’t sound right…
Uh. Dan...
ReplyDeleteWhy would anyone impersonate Tink? (Also, are you referring to both posts of "Tinkerbelle"'s?)
^Why does anyone here do anything? It wouldn’t be the first time someone has copped to leaving comments here under several different names. I remember the original Tinkerbelle and she was not this vacuous.
ReplyDeleteholy crap! No One..you used the c word! That's a no no...even for a sociopath! At least be a classy sociopath! LOL
ReplyDeleteGrace.
Grace, you know you love it.
ReplyDeleteI don't mind it I guess...just don't send it my way..ok.
ReplyDeleteI love the other word more...you know the OTHER word. But I can't even say it even tho I like it.
But that's not what this site is for.
Grace
While the Empath desperately clings to belief, faith, love, God, meaning and other such trite and worthless sentimentalities, the sociopath has reacted already as nature simply intended them to do.... All sociaopaths?
ReplyDeletem.e. has also said he likes to believe in God the creator, but that he doesn't let that hold him back.
http://www.sociopathworld.com/2009/05/can-sociopaths-be-religious.html
I don't mind it I guess...just don't send it my way..ok.
ReplyDeleteActually, I like you better than most of the other 'empaths' here; none of that unwarranted arrogance and overconfidence that seems to saturate their asinine philosophical musings about things they have no first-hand knowledge of.
well... in response to all above... sociopaths are happier by definition, since they have a LOT of dopamine. Dopamine is a substance of happiness (one of). Empaths are empaths not because they want to. Because the nature made them to be, they have way too much estrogen. Estrogen also "helps" them not to get into harm's way, in a way. The wierd thing: sociopaths are sometimes happily married, mainly to another sociopaths to a degree, since women are usually less sociopathic; nature prefers to experiment on man... and sociopaths are nature's preferred way to experiment. Both sociopaths and empaths employ logic, but they have different axioms. Sociopathic people's axioms are based on immediate need of them. Therefore, they make perfect businessmen for the speed of reaction to immediate threat or for the gaining immediate gain. They might have a problem to figure out strategy long -term since not always they can predict the consequences of their actions, especially when they are young. Sociopathy is likely a combination of dopamine and testosterone as leading substances in the brain, from my personal observation of sociopaths...
ReplyDeleteI belive the are both needed in the society, and yes both sociopathy and empathy has a degree. And even more, in one person this degree will change in a reaction to circumstances... even sociopaths loose their dopane as they age, not much, but it is unfortunately a natural process, the biological cycle of a person's life.
about suppression... when you suppress a desire... the problem is that the desires are different... due to the nature of sociopathy , the desires are to own... empathic people have very different desires :) and they are not suppressed, but the implementation take ime and detrnination. It is more about here and now immediate satisfaction versus long term objectives... empathic people withdraw real pleasure in giving...
ReplyDelete“empathic people withdraw real pleasure in giving"
ReplyDeleteYes that's true I enjoy giving. It makes me feel good to see someone happy...even if it means giving up my happiness. And the sociopath was very good with this. Masterful at it! He allowed me to go to the extreme with it and of course I thought this was ok with him. But I had no discipline with myself and just went to fast with it and he couldn't have that...he needed a woman who has self control and didn't need to be with him so often. I was not that woman. But never the less he took advantage of me and then dropped me out of the blue. He enjoyed that. Good thing is after a few days I stopped trying to get my way with him because I could see how pathetic I was and he could never return the love. So he doesn't know how much he really hurt me. I will never let him know how much power he had over me. But then again he may not even care. As time goes by I don't care so much anymore either.
I have been on here a lot..out of school for a few weeks. I need to get a life!
Grace.