I was sifting through my emails and found this from a seduction target who turned into a friend, and then a seduction target, and then a friend again, and then (in a late night impulse) a confidante. It's a reply from an email I sent while traveling, waiting for my shoes to be repaired in time to catch a flight -- an email in which I questioned whether I had the requisite skills to "coddle" this person upon arriving home, and what does does coddle even mean? From my friend:
coddle: to treat with extreme care or kindness
Couldn't even the superficial charm, manipulation and self serving behaviors of a self diagnosed sociopath permissibly appear to be coddling even if it is covertly hostile and dominating? More likely, what is interpeted by your victim as joy, love and compassion - even if feigned, feels close enough to the real deal to be worth it. Or at least, as one of your named victims, I don't care and would prefer the shallow coddling to no coddling at all.
This is not to say that I see you so without capacity for empathy or love; but that seems to be the theme of the DSM IV's diagnosis of the sociopath. So I'm running with it. I must enjoy being the abused.
90% chance you made the flight. 98% percent chance you were still sending an email or texting when flight attendant had to tell you to stop.
Empaths can coddle for years.
ReplyDeleteSocios can only coddle for as long as they were their masks, and unfortunately they cannot wear masks for as long as empaths can feel feeling.
A socio has to be a bit indifferent to all, or else things can fall apart. It's like M.E saying he could go crazy because he had to wear a mask for his dramatic friend grieved over a loved on.
And it was for a extended time.
ReplyDelete"Couldn't even the superficial charm, manipulation and self serving behaviors of a self diagnosed sociopath permissibly appear to be coddling even if it is covertly hostile and dominating?"
ReplyDeleteI can see how on the surface these things might appear as coddling. But what really distinguishes coddling is the extent of the involvement. It's a step beyond supportive and typical caring to taking care of a person past the point of them taking care of themselves. There's almost an air of that person not being able to take care of themselves properly so someone else needs to provide more to fill the gap, shield them from the harshness of the world.
Hell, even I like people to do nice things that 'take care of me' occasionally, but to be coddled feels like being treated like a 5 year old where the other person tries to do everything as if I couldn't do stuff for myself. It's insulting.
I imagine this would get very tiresome for someone that doesn't actually {can't} empathize with the person 'needing' to be coddled and taken care of. At some point you just want to say 'you're a big boy/girl, learn to take care of yoruself'. The less attached you actually are, the quicker I imagine that point would come.
Got raped with a stick ----- ^^^^
ReplyDelete@HavenNyx
ReplyDeleteI remeber M.E talking about the sort of payoff needed for a socio to maintain a mask. Like they can continue to wear it as long as it benefits them, and as long as they don't get too carried away with them.
I guess they can 'tolerate' coddling for a while, until they get what they want. For ex. a socio wanting to drain money from a sick person would coddle them for as long as they can take advantage of them.
Agreed or no?
Lol what are you talking about? Wearing a mask? That is kind of corny.
ReplyDeleteStupid fucks all around this blog:
ReplyDeleteYou are stupid.
End of transmission.
Glutton for punishment much? I'm kidding, I don't think one could enjoy being the abused but rather the idea of it before, during, or after if they so tried.
ReplyDeleteEven such, the context thought process would exist outside the realm of feeling abused but more a world apart from acknowledging abuse in entirety.
Does that sound more accurate to you?
Just switched my primary mode of thinking from intuition to sensing, shit is so cash.
ReplyDeleteCoddle: To treat in an indulgent or overprotective way.
ReplyDeleteAs social primates everything is about engagement. Grooming each other is paramount. Attention is attention, one has to move out of the good/bad or nurturing/abuse viewpoint to see all focus, even negative is a form of coddling. Pleasure or pain is the trappings which overshadow what is really going on.
How we place our attention is quite the mutable playground.
Adam what r u doing on this blog. Put on an educated mask and go take a course in psychology then come back and start asking stupid questions.
ReplyDeleteAdam do you feel the love? We don't coddle here. Wake up!
ReplyDeleteSoulful I can coddle your mind, not your heart. <3
ReplyDeleteStalin was awesome, he would write out a ton of lists with people he wanted dead, oh boy, i wish i could do that, i would have most people wiped out, anyone who fell into an outcast group would be shot, freaks and people who wronged me in my past, women wouldn't be safe either, people who say turn a cheek are idiots, Ive gotten my fair amount of revenge, but nothing would be sweeter than killing a person who got up in my face in the past, they are always in my mind, i hold terrible grudges.
ReplyDeleteenlighten me with ur rage adam
ReplyDeleteI know a dog owner who never looks at the dog. If the owner says "get out of the street you stupid dumbass dog," the dog responds with joy. Hardly coddling, but a fine substitute.
ReplyDeleteThe thing that scares me the most, is the awareness that there are others similar to me in the world.
ReplyDeleteAnon stealing my lines.
ReplyDeleteSoulful I can coddle your mind, not your heart. <3
ReplyDeletefrom anon 8:56
I have become fully enlightened reading all of your comments and M.E.'s posts. You have all indulged and humored my mind. I have a large business undertaking I need to personally coddle so I will be out of the playground for a while.
You would all make excellent rulers of the universe. I would love to be an ambassador visiting each and every one of your personal planets with your brutal and charming hospitality.
"I'm not making these statements to try to coddle offenders." Leo Cotter
Deep affection, honor and respect . . . keep up the war, its a worthy cause.
You misunderstand, there's no war here. Also, I'm not every Anon, but thanks :) To each their own I suppose.
ReplyDeleteNarcissists love a good coddling
ReplyDeleteThe discussions here have gotten more interesting here lately, the readers are more raw with their comments than before.
ReplyDelete@Jason.... yeah I can see that. So agreed.
ReplyDeleteGot assfucked by her grandpa ----- ^^^^
ReplyDeleteYou must be joking. You don't know if you have the skills to coddle?
ReplyDeleteAnything can be faked. Most of the time, people aren't looking for insincerity in facets which comfort them. If anything, they turn a blind eye to keep the pleasure coming.
"Socios can only coddle for as long as they were their masks, and unfortunately they cannot wear masks for as long as empaths can feel feeling."
ReplyDeleteJason is not a sociopath but apparently he knows everything about them. And he's talked about his own inability to wear masks. Where does your knowledge come from?
Yeah the discussions are more raw. Raw as in stoopid. 2nd grade insult stoopid. Random nonsense stoopid. Ignoramusly stoopid.
ReplyDeleteJason is a fag I'll fuck his asshole
ReplyDeleteIt's Random:30 time.
ReplyDeleteGuess what that means socios? It's Random Fact Time! YAY!
Love = A couple's denial being equal to each others', or close enough to equal in their minds such that it does not matter the differences.
The holocaust is a perfect example of how powerful narcissistic rage can be.
ReplyDeleteM.E. Do ALL your friends know you're a sociopath?? How do you even have friends? They must be so masochistic to send you emails like this and still want your company. If you're really a sociopath, you're not supposed to let everyone around you aware of that, you know? Then again, seems to be working for you. Maybe a case of choosing the right victim or whatever.. I'm not socio.
ReplyDeleteOne day, way back when while I was on vacation in Germany, a little old Jewish lady didn't say thank you when I held the door open for her. I flew into a rage, stuck her head in the door frame, and repeatedly slammed the door on it until it smashed. I was still enraged, so I spent the next few years killing all the jews I could find throughout Europe. This guy called Hitler, and his Nazi buddies took credit for all of my work, and moved into the territories that I'd single handedly conquered. Naturally, I was having none of it, so locked a bunch of them up in this bunker one day, and killed them all, even the dog.
ReplyDeleteAnon @ 12:54
ReplyDeletePerhaps you're alone in your caring about such matters. Even if you can get a friend to agree with you, what's the point? Percentages say you're fucked.
How long does the mask stay on before it starts slipping?
ReplyDelete@I love TN
ReplyDeleteWell I assume you are a socio, or someone with BPD.
Can you genuinely coddle with someone just to help them? Empathy like coddling?
I don't quite get what you're saying 1:02
ReplyDeleteEmpathy has nothing to do with it. Its all about knowing what buttons to push and when, even If you dont know why.
ReplyDeleteEmpathy has nothing to do with it. Its all about knowing what buttons to push and when, even if you dont know why.
ReplyDeleteHmm I think you are right.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't you agree tho, that the difficulty in coddling could become harder the longer you have to do it?
1 day, versus 15 years.
No payoff, and you cannot feel like a neurotypical.
If you've been an observer of a person long enough, coddling in fact comes easier (well as long as the person doesn't make you totally disgusted & you're getting something from it) because you're more aware of what makes them tick, toss them the bone they desire & it's yet another win for you.
ReplyDeleteEveryone will disgust me. Sooner or later.
ReplyDeleteTheres a difference between coddling and being charming. I'm not going to coddle anyone unless I can see a good reason for it. I'm not their fucking baby sitter. Being coddled is like being treated like little child. Most people dont appreciate it.
ReplyDeleteSeeing as the spam filter hates me today I'll repeat my last post.
Empathy has nothing to do with it. Its all about knowing what buttons to push and when, even if you dont know why.
No... but that's not what you said. And why would I want to if I didn't get anything out of it? It becomes easier to do it, the set-up and earning trust is the part where you have to put the most effort in, after that... you don't have to do much.
ReplyDeleteNo payoff? Why do it?
What do you mean you cannot feel like a neurotypical?
I think problem was that I generalized all situations in which someone sociopathic would coddle someone.
ReplyDelete"What do you mean you cannot feel like a neurotypical"
Well I was assuming you had some disorder like BPD or ASPD, and by not feeling like a neurotypical I mean thoughts that revolve around helping people just to help them.
Not helping people just to help them*
ReplyDeleteASPD, but I don't see how that was relevant to what we were actually talking about.
ReplyDeleteI was saying that to prove the point that you cannot indefinitely coddle someone unless there was something in it for you. It would not be sincere, hence, a "mask".
ReplyDeleteAny faking of your personality for an extended period of time, or how the psychologists call it, "superficial charm", is considered to be a "mask".
I asked is you had ASPD or so I wouldn't call you a socio if you were empath.
Coodling has it's limits, even to an empath
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@ Jason
ReplyDeleteSome socios do help others without hope of pay-off. It's usually pretty impulsive, though, and rarely a long term act of caretaking. I often think that we do have empathy to a certain degree. It just isn't as attachment-oriented or sustained as it is with NT's.
I think Jason's statements rings true.
ReplyDeleteIf you remove self interest from the equation, there's bound to happen a fall off the mask. Besides, wearing a mask is energy consuming for a socio, whereas for an empath the task without said mask (cuddling, in this instance) can be energy balanced or even replenishing.
"wearing a mask is energy consuming for a socio"
ReplyDeleteNo it isn't. Its ridiculously easy.
Its effortless. The only time the 'masks falls off' is when we lose our tempers.
ReplyDelete@Misanthrope:
ReplyDeleteI see. But don't you need time off from this process?
Wearing masks can be enjoyable insofar as games are enjoyable, but emulating a nature different from your default one without no end reward would be a challenge, wouldn't you say?
Hence why people stick around this blog for long periods of time.
ReplyDeleteAnd eventually always come back.
@AmoralBing
ReplyDeleteYes, I didn't mean to remove self-interest from the equation. Maybe I should have reworded the first part of the sentence to say, "without hope of obvious pay-off."
I think that for both socios and non-socios, there is a certain built-in payoff for helping someone short term. We're primates. We're wired towards social behavior to a certain degree, and so helping someone can really be an act of shared survival--so our instincts tell us.
For a socio, it can also have the added pay-off of relief from boredom.
The pay-offs are there: they just don't have to do with obvious gain, such as seduction or power.
Engaging in that behavior long-term--coddling or caretaking---needs greater pay-offs for it to be sustained: at least among socios, since we are more geared towards self-interest.
After a while, boredom sets in. The costs outweigh the benefits. The only way to sustain it is either by wearing a mask or by increasing the benefits relative to costs.
For an NT, the behavior can be a end in itself. Everything is an act of bonding to them, or so it seems.:) Things that might seem meaningless or tedious to us have their own built-in rewards.
It may be that M.E.'s friend isn't so interested in being coddled--whatever that means in this situation. She may just want sustained acts of friendship because for her, they're pleasurable in and of themselves.
Really, M.E. Just invite her to dinner from time to time. I think she'll be happy with that.
--Somewhat disconnected, but then--I have the relative attention span of a flea.
No I don't need time off. I said just a couple of days ago that I don't need alone time. Lying and pretending is never hard. Like UKan said Its only when I lose my temper that things start to fall apart. I try to avoid situations where its likely that I be provoked, unless I'm looking for a fight. Sometimes it just happens though.
ReplyDelete"Hence why people stick around this blog for long periods of time. And eventually always come back."
ReplyDeleteThis place needs me more than I need it.
I highly doubt that. But carry on.
ReplyDeleteYou know it's true deep down. But carry on.
ReplyDeleteBadass sociopath.
ReplyDeleteReally 'AMoralBing'? 'cause I think Jason talks bull.
ReplyDeleteAs for 'masks', personally, yeah when I lose my temper but also when I get really bored, I don't lose my mask so much as forget to employ it entirely, I miss out details.
Medusa, this website is light relief from boredom with a nice hint of introspection, not some desperate relief from the hell that is pretending to be someone else, cause that's actually kinda fun.
Misanthrope don't be so deluded.
Never said it was some "desperate relief". What I said was in response to "But don't you need time off from this process?"
ReplyDeleteAlthough I do think it is for a couple of people around here.
More like desperate self-delusion.
Fair enough... I do wonder if I'm deluding myself quite a bit... Facts don't add up though...
ReplyDeleteThey never do--in anyone's life. Don't worry. It's largely projection anyway.
ReplyDeleteSOLIPSISM 4EVER
ReplyDeleteSOLIPSISM is the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist. The term comes from Latin solus (alone) and ipse (self). Solipsism is an epistemological or ontological position that knowledge of anything outside one's own specific mind is unjustified. The external world and other minds cannot be known and might not exist. In the history of philosophy, solipsism has served as a skeptical hypothesis.
ReplyDeleteThere is no one out there . . .
"Viewed scientifically, the death of a human being is of no more significance than that of any other animal on earth."
ReplyDeleteIs there anybody out there..
ReplyDeleteHey you, out there on your own, sitting naked by the phone.
ReplyDeleteWould you touch me?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KXidr0z1RY&feature=related
ReplyDeleteThe Advaita Trap
"The seeker must be destroyed by the machine gun of truth"
Nothing to touch. Nothing to coddle. Pure awareness.
Question for everyone: Do other sociopaths step on people's feet a lot? My ex did this constantly, I wondered if it's a new trait.
ReplyDelete@Anon 10:16
ReplyDeleteYes.
" Nothing to touch. Nothing to coddle. Pure awareness. "
ReplyDeleteJust been to PMS's site - sucked into the journey. - LMFAO, hugely
But c'mon now. Looks like, sounds like, feels like, smells like.
-Does that mean it's a duck?
123
ReplyDeleteG
ReplyDeleteWhat she describes is pretty much what some of mine have said too. It's also part of the reason I can't see people like us as merely 'bad' or abusive.
ReplyDeleteThat plane, when they had to tell you to stop... Ah, such memories, they tend to stick, lol.
Misanthrope:
ReplyDelete(about mask wearing being energy consuming)
"No it isn't. Its ridiculously easy."
I've always wondered when people say it's such a hard thing. To me it feels natural. Sure, it takes energy, and you'll not uphold it forever. Sometimes you withdraw and relax, but after a while you want to go out and play again.
Maybe it's different in between types of Sociopaths. I use the distinction between sociopaths and psychopaths and Antisocials and have never heard a psychopath say it is hard as such.
It's relaxing to let go, sure, but it can be such fun to play too.
Just the way I see it.
"It's only when I loose my temper things fall apart".
Exactly!