I saw this when it originally came out, but I recently re-read it and thought it was especially entertaining given what we have seen from Ma-Sheen. Almost exactly a month ago, Charlie Sheen gave Lindsay Lohan advice about how to curb impulses:
Charlie reached out to Lindsay Lohan during an interview on Dan Patrick's radio show today, offering the 24-year-old some words of wisdom.I guess the television executives missed their split second window from him healing himself to him unraveling again. It makes you wonder, though, is it best for sociopaths to be asking advice from other sociopaths on impulse control? Maybe we should be talking to catholic nuns or something...
Speaking out on the radio show, the 45-year-old, who is currently in at-home rehab, urged Lindsay to control her impulses.
You get Lindsay on the show, I will call in,' he said on the air.
Troubled: Lindsay Lohan recently pleaded not guilty to grant theft felony charges after allegedly stealing a $2,500 necklace from a jewellery store
'I've got some advice for her. I've got some things I would recommend she consider because I don't tell anybody what to do. Work on your impulse control. Just try to think things through a little bit before you do them.'
***
In the interview he also expressed his thanks to those who helped him after his now infamous 36-hour drugs bender.
'People need to understand how supremely grateful I am that someone stepped in here,' he said.
He touched on who was involved in the intervention, which followed an epic weekend of sex and drugs.
***
Asked if he was ready to go back to work, Sheen said: 'I'm here and I'm ready. They're not. Bring it.'
"I am a man of my word. I have a contract. They said, 'Get your act together,' and I did."
'[But] they didn't think it was going to happen this fast,' Sheen continued. 'I heal really quickly, but I also unravel pretty quickly, so get me right now, guys. Get me right now!'
'I am a man of my word.'
ReplyDeleteAnother example of a person who feels the need to tell you what they are, and to explain to you their virtues.
'I've got some advice for her. I've got some things I would recommend she consider because I don't tell anybody what to do. Work on your impulse control. Just try to think things through a little bit before you do them.'
Mr. Sheen sure is a master of projection. Not surprising.
Not to mention him saying that he never tells anyone what do, then follows that up by doing exactly that.
I think it's possible, though, for one sociopath to give valuable guidance to another. The same way a business mogul teaches his offspring how things work in order to continue the venture through generations.
As long as they actually are living a life on control, which can be proven by actions over a significant period of time. Charlie Sheen obviously is not. He's all talk.
Little sociopathic piece of trash gets owned.
ReplyDeleteLohan is a beeper.
ReplyDeleteI can't really agree with the notion, once again.
ReplyDeleteCharlie Sheen is the epitome of what porn stars and hollywood whores desire in a functioning relationship. While I'm not saying this is good or bad, it is fact.
As for Lindsay Lohan, you would have to want her to remain a child/damaged the rest of her life to embrace her enough to want to talk to her/deal with her bullshit for a desired outcome. That's just common sense.
That would probably be anyone's biggest clue in what exactly Charlie Sheen was reaching out for with his own bullshit, as Medusa picked up on.
To simplify this, he would not mind if Lindsay Lohan payed him a visit seeking advice as if he knew something she did not. He would enjoy the position it gave him, and I dare say his enjoyment would differ otherwise.
With parents like Dina and Michael, who needs enemies? I don't believe that Lindsay's the sociopath in that family. Just saying.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteyeah, lindsay is most likely bpd. those with bipolar have said charlie sheen shows all the symptoms of a full blown manic phase. something like 80% of bipolar people abuse drugs. so, it's a possibility. i'm not saying he doesn't have a PD too. maybe.
ReplyDeletenotme, some day you are going to see everyone as having a personality disorder and become the new Medusa.
ReplyDeletewv: prick
M.E.,
ReplyDelete"..makes you wonder, though, is it best for sociopaths to be asking advice from other sociopaths on impulse control? Maybe we should be talking to catholic nuns or something..."
People like us don't easily adopt or take on complete ideology concepts or world views. And that is what forms the individual non-psychopathic person's general basis for the advice they can give, no matter what the individual topic is.
I know you wrote it tongue in cheek, but it's a valid question - not least considering our situation... after all it's still a rather new thing for most of our kind that there are places like this blog and it's comment board, so many still do ask that question.
Honestly I think we're best off if we pick our resources of advice carefully every time, and for each thing, that we want advice about.
The willingness to do some research and seek out knowledge on your own, and from a variety of resources, in my eyes is key to a possibly better future living for most of us.
Medusa,
good point, that's what hit me first too when I read the article. But I'm not even sure if that was meant to stand out.
'I've got some advice for her. I've got some things I would recommend she consider because I don't tell anybody what to do. Work on your impulse control. Just try to think things through a little bit before you do them.'
Yeah, exactly:
"I never tell people what to do, so I'm not going to tell you to do this. I'll just say that you have to do that! And I'll not tell you how to do anything either, but you've got to do it thus!"
"I am a man of my word. I have a contract. They said, 'Get your act together,' and I did."
Hmm.. - He's a man of words, that's much is certain.
And he has an act, he acts a lot, that's also true.
So I guess we'll have to give him SOME credit here.
Sheen is a narcissist full stop.
ReplyDeleteAnon i'm hardly being conclusive.
ReplyDeletePlus, bipolar is a mood disorder. :P
I'm not saying anything that's not been said before here. Look above me ^^^
Oh I know you're not, I'm just being honest (yes, actually) in saying that one day you are going to wake up from a bad dream and it's not going to phase you as much as yesterday because your life will be a nightmare. You're going to keep browsing, learning, in the direction you've chosen and you're going to conclude what anyone here, who desires a label of authenticity, has already concluded at a much faster rate and at a much earlier point in their life as opposed to yourself.
ReplyDeleteI would never tell you that it is out of your grasp and yes if I imply as such it is just a pathetic game I play due to boredom as both games and boredom are familiar to me.
I'm not going to view the nonsense above you to make a conclusion, it's not necessary. I would rather refer to yesterday's blog near the end. Eventually you will have your own mind when part of it wants to watch the world burn for having arrived at what you've learned.
Bags and bags of smoking rock cocaine is the culprit. Met someone who knows him personally at a party last week.
ReplyDeleteHis brain is fried. Even though he thinks he's Jesus. He is not coming back
Lindsay Lohan is a self entitled brat with f-ed up parents and a refusal to take responsibility for herself.
ReplyDeleteEveryone with a drug problem and an ego is not a beeper, just embarassing.
As long as people have life experiences that they've learned from I think it's possible to give people of a similar mindset advice. Or at least a different perspective so they can come to their own conclusions.
http://narcissisticpersonalitydisordernarcissism.com/narcissisticsociopath.php
ReplyDeletemalignant narcissism is the true psychopathy, these individuals are narcissistic and paronoid to the extreme.
individuals with malignant narcissism consistently attempt to destroy, symbolically castrate, and dehumanize others. Their sadism is often expressed in ideological terms. They can become leaders of religious cults. They can also have ego-syntonic suicidal tendencies that do not reflect sadness and inner guilt, but a megalomaniac triumph over the ordinary fear of pain and death.
ReplyDeleteSounds like Gadaffi.
ReplyDeleteLindsay Lohan is a self entitled brat with f-ed up parents and a refusal to take responsibility for herself.
ReplyDeleteThat's a good quality.
I think Haven is a pretty cool guy. She fucks anything with a dick and doesnt afraid of anything.
ReplyDeleteYou're all fooling yourselves. The ONLY good quality about Lindsay Lohan is that she has abortions. And she's had MANY, and hopefully enough of them now to render the idea of her next one unnecessary: indefinite miscarriages.
ReplyDeleteThose borderlines are slutty as shit, sex is above me.
ReplyDeleteYou mean beneath you.
ReplyDeleteMy sadistic parents have told me that sex is a sin and emotions are for the weak now all i seek is power to fill the void i watch sadistic porn every day because it limits the intimacy my sexual urges are going out of control waiting to splatter the walls with red.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you should start acting out your urges :) I think you'll find there's a plethora of folk out there waiting to be your bound & gagged willing slaves/victims.
ReplyDeletei'll let you as long as you fuck me in all holes and let me drink yor cum :)
ReplyDeleteMost of the commenters here who call themselves sociopaths are seriously deceiving themselves.
ReplyDeleteMost of you are not diagnosed with psychopathy. That much is painfully obvious.
Those few actual psychopaths that write halfway intelligent comments here have to be of the high functioning sort, meaning they may be psychopathic emotionally, but they are rational enough to see the benefit of behaving like neurotypicals more often than not. Given the fact that the human species is social at the core, consistently ethical, pro-social behavior is the most logical course. To behave in a consistently unethical and antisocial way, to revel in it, to actually believe that you are the most important person in the world and that your own desires are the only ones that matter all the while expecting other people to treat you well, is the epitome of both denial and personality pathology.
Sociopathy is not something to glorify. It’s something to be pitied. If you are an actual sociopath and you have enough self awareness to know it, then you also have enough self awareness to work hard to change. If you choose not to, then I pity you. If you commit crimes without remorse, then you should be incarcerated without sympathy. If you are not a sociopath but like pretending to be one because you don’t know who you are, then you are suffering from special snowflake syndrome. I encourage you to snap the hell out of it, grow up and get on with building a real life.
"special snowflake syndrome"
ReplyDeleteShut up Res you aspie faggot.
'Those few actual psychopaths that write halfway intelligent comments here'
ReplyDeletethe one's who write all that hyper-intellectual dribble(TNP, Zawhq) are the one's who are less likely to be sociopaths, and more likely to be narcissists, in my opinion. you practically said it yourself, they're lower down on the spectrum. the half way idiotic one's who thrive on anti-social activity, and who will most likely end up dead, alone or in prison(UKan, Misanthrope) are most likely the real sociopaths. i completely agree that it's not something to be glorified. it's just sad and destructive.
You are a fucking idiot. You left out Adam, he is one of the top guys on here.
ReplyDeletebut i should also say that although i have my suspicions, i'm not entirely convinced that there are real sociopaths on this site. i'm not sure that a sociopath can truley understand their condition, even after diagnosis. if that is the case, i guess the self proclaimed and most seemingly sociopathic individuals on this site are simply terrible people, which is even worse....
ReplyDeleteNotables attitudes change accoriding to what the more dominant individuals are saying, he was being extra nice to notme (not narcissistic) before UKan and Postmodern called him out on it, now all of a sudden he is a fricken bad ass misanthropist.
ReplyDelete@Anon 11:38a: I don’t want to fall into a semantic argument but I think it depends on what you mean by understand.
ReplyDeleteAny intelligent human can take a rational look at their actions. Dissect what they are doing. Record and analyze the thought in their head.
However that does not mean that it is possible, necessary, or even desirable to do anything about it.
There can be a cognitive dissonance between understanding and implementation.
I can break down my symptoms, rationalize how theories/principles/ideas apply to my life, see where I fit along a certain spectrum, in that sense I understand my condition. On the other hand, I also know how it feels. The logic of understanding a condition and the {lack of} experience of a condition state can be completely opposed or dissociated. So maybe you’re right. Maybe someone with a PD can’t truly understand on all levels their condition, but I believe it’s possible to understand it on many levels that are quite relevant.
Nice try Adam. I'm flattered that you think my opinion here counts.
ReplyDeleteYour opinion counts Medusa, you're one of the few people here with a brain. Don't think it goes unnoticed just because I don't blow you because of it :)
ReplyDeleteAlso, "Those are the real psychopaths!" Nice projection, you sound like a Malignant Narc yourself. Hate to see the day you finally have an identity, and it ends up being just that.
Anonymous 11:23 & 11:38: Agreed. Ukan & Misanthrope write intelligible and on occasion intelligent comments. After having skimmed through a few comments and blog posts from previous years, I can speculate that there were a few other commenters that seemed to share a consistently antisocial mindset. Ukan and Misanthrope seem to be the only regulars who proudly claim to be sociopathic left. But you’re right. The more disordered you are, the less likely you are to actually understand your condition. Hence the often repeated axiom that genuine sociopaths are not insightful. Truly rational people don't aspire to be terrible human beings.
ReplyDeleteHavenNyx:
ReplyDeleteIf you see that you fall along a pathological spectrum and decide not to do anything about it, you are either deluding yourself about being pathological or you lack genuine insight into the needlessly painful and even delusional existence that goes hand in hand with living with a personality disorder.
Anonymous 11:23 & 11:38: Agreed. Ukan & Misanthrope write intelligible and on occasion intelligent comments. After having read thru previous years’ comments and blog posts, I can speculate that there were a few other commenters that seemed to share a consistently antisocial mindset. Ukan and Misanthrope seem to be the only regulars who proudly claim to be sociopathic left. But you’re right. The more disordered you are, the less likely you are to actually understand your condition. Rational people do not aspire to be terrible human beings.
ReplyDeleteAnon, maybe they accept themselves :O
ReplyDeleteIn fact, Haven should now fear you for your lack of understanding this because you're weak in your inability to do such a thing yourself which is what AND why you can't comprehend. It is not possible for someone as pathetic as you to write what you have written and believe it yourself.
Even without people like you posting here, I can look at "normal" people and accept myself just fine. You only reinforce it.
Anyone can give advice. It's simply a matter of do as I say not as I do.
ReplyDelete^
ReplyDeleteWho the fuck names themselves HavenNyx? I bet you are one of those fruitcakes who reads a daily horoscope. You fucking corny bastard.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 11:23 & 11:38: Agreed. Ukan & Misanthrope write intelligible and on occasion intelligent comments. After having read thru previous years’ comments and blog posts, I can speculate that there were a few other commenters that seemed to share a consistently antisocial mindset. Ukan and Misanthrope seem to be the only regulars who proudly claim to be sociopathic left. But you’re right. The more disordered you are, the less likely you are to actually understand your condition. Rational people do not aspire to be terrible human beings.
ReplyDeleteAnon, maybe they accept themselves :O
ReplyDeleteAccepting yourself is one thing. In fact, it’s the first thing you need to do in order to get better. But if you refuse to get better because you are rationalizing disordered behavior as something glamorous then you are kidding yourself. You know what I’m saying is true because you wouldn’t want to live in a society full of psychopaths. Such a society would be hell on earth and we all know it. It would also be short lived.
In any event, I am only talking about the truly antisocial. I’m not talking about unemotional types or people who have argued themselves into some kind of nihilistic funk, then come on to blogs like this to parade their awesome badness to all those ignorant enough to believe them.
"I’m not talking about unemotional types or people who have argued themselves into some kind of nihilistic funk, then come on to blogs like this to parade their awesome badness to all those ignorant enough to believe them."
ReplyDeleteI that what you think ALL the S's here have done?
I shouldn't engage this...
ReplyDeleteAstrology is utter farce. Anyone with even a minimal astrophysics background can disprove the supposed workings of this anti-science.
Haven = Refuge
Nyx = Greek mythos; Night born of Chaos
Hence, Refuge from the darkness of Chaos {a chaotic mind}.
I suggest reading.
@Anon... it's not necessarily a refusal to get better. Drugs, therapy, they only do so much. You can change the behaviors, change the motions you go through daily, but how do you 'fix' someones base nature?
ReplyDeleteNot too mention, if you're emotionally void or detached, understanding your condition, and having the capacity to care are two entirely different things. You can't tell a blind guy to match the paint on the surrounding walls when he's never seen the color. You can explain, he can understand, but there's a disconnect in the ability to experience.
I agree in a way. If you have the intellectual capacity to understand a condition, intelligence can be a powerful tool to integrating into society. Functional for society. I am not convinced that it will do anything but change a surface presentation though.
And there I was thinking we'd had this whole talk over and done with. Next time you read the list about what a sociopath is, pay attention.
ReplyDeleteThough I have to say I do occasionally think "Am I just deluding myself" but no. Even if I tried to feel like you do, there's no escaping the fact it makes no sense.
It would serve you well to remember we can be whatever you want us to be.
(P.s. I'm drunk enough to not actually know who I'm talking to... but damn is it glorious.)
"It would serve you well to remember we can be whatever you want us to be."
ReplyDeleteI want you to be gone.
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ReplyDeleteWell Anon. Have you ever thought about going on a killing rampage. A massacre of all the sociopaths you know?
ReplyDeleteAll the sociopaths? no, just you. In case you had not noticed you're the most boring and pointless person on this site.
ReplyDelete"Psychological labels are now an element of "control" in our society. I detest labels. They are a cop out. When you really hold them as a concrete understanding of human behavior, they turn to sand in your fingers."
ReplyDeleteA psychopath doesn't care if you slap a label on him, we won't rebel against it, as long as it doesn't put us in a bad light and make us look weak, think about it, lack of empathy, grandiose self worth and pathological lying, where does it go wrong? They are all praised traits in western civilisation, where the attitude is survival of the fittest.
Haha. I am? Well I always knew I was the best at something.
ReplyDeleteThat was a Jason comeback.
ReplyDeletewv: slyperv (serious)
I don't know what this Jason guy thing was about, i don't think i was here. As such (and i assume it's supposed to be) that makes a very ineffective insult.
ReplyDeleteI think their is a surge of idiotic anons going on right now.
ReplyDelete>"It would serve you well to remember we can be whatever you want us to be."
I disagree. I can be whatever I need or want to be. The situation may dictate whats best for me to be but the decision to be that is still mine to make. I couldn't care less what you want me to be or how you feel about what I am at any given moment.
And to the anon that said "Accepting yourself is one thing. In fact, it’s the first thing you need to do in order to get better."
I don't need to get better. Why? Because there is nothing wrong with me. You can label me whatever you want or say I have this syndrome or that disorder I don't care. I see nothing wrong with me. I have no want to be cruel just as I have no want to be nice. My actions just appear one way or another to the people receiving them. If I beat someone you hated into a crippled state I'm sure you would think I did you a great favor. For them it would seem like a true injustice. For me it would just be something I did. From my perspective there is something wrong with all the empaths and norms working towards the greater good and not towards their own betterment. There is something wrong with people who get abused and don't fight their abuser tooth, nail, and claw. It doesn't make sense to me. It seems weak and stupid to me. If I take advantage of someones weakness it is their fault for having that weakness. So in turn I see all my actions as justified and all their actions as a type of insanity.
"how do you 'fix' someones base nature?"
ReplyDeleteTrue. I'll add to HavenNyx on this one.
I wouldn't expect much out-of-the-box thinking from someone with a PD, although that doesn't mean they can't get acutely aware.
I mean, lets take Charlie Sheen. He's bent on the belief that he's fine. That's the far end of the spectrum. In my opinion, some here are like him, in the sense that they simply can't get out of their heads. Others not so. They're more like Vaknin - surprisingly insightful, but still highly unlikely to reach the clarity of an outside educated observer.
The end of the matter, to me, is that this is all fine. It's all what it's supposed to be. If someone has a PD, expecting them to be someone they're - by definition - not, is a sign of unacceptance. It doesn't get you anywhere.
HavenNyx said "You can change the behaviors, change to the motions you go through daily, but how do you fix someone's nature?"
ReplyDeleteProvide the best environment for development.
If you are not in the right environment for your nature. Good luck. Like planting seeds on a rock. Why fix what nature perfected. Nature is at the core, behaviors, motions are like culture.
I am sure their are anti-social in Japan whose nature is no different than here. Culture supplies a structure.
We almost have too much freedom in the US. America the innovators and the selfish self-absorbed.
Ah, Kesu, my point was that there's no knowing who we are, as for when it serves us we can be anything. Are you saying you wouldn't be what someone wanted you to be if it got you what you want?
ReplyDelete@I love tn I understand your point. I was merely remarking that it wasn't about what they desire but about whats best for me. As far as your question goes no I wouldn't be what they wanted me to be. I would be what I needed to be to get what I wanted. If that happens to align with what they want then so be it.
ReplyDeleteHa. That's the same thing Kesu.
ReplyDelete"They are all praised traits in western civilisation, where the attitude is survival of the fittest."
ReplyDeleteNo that's the law of the jungle. Its the opposite over here. If you're to weak to make it the government will give you money. When you get old the government gives you money. Where I live if you trip over on the fucking pavement you can sue the council. Life is easy.
"the half way idiotic one's who thrive on anti-social activity, and who will most likely end up dead, alone or in prison(UKan, Misanthrope)"
I'm living life the way its supposed to be lived you boring twat. I'm not just here for the ride. I grabbed the bull by the horns and I might get gored sooner than the rest of you but who cares? Life kills us all in the end.
Kesu . . . well said. No soul search. Just what is. Enjoy the clarity of thought.
ReplyDelete"I don't need to get better. Why? [...] It doesn't make sense to me. It seems weak and stupid to me. If I take advantage of someones weakness it is their fault for having that weakness. So in turn I see all my actions as justified and all their actions as a type of insanity."
ReplyDeleteThis makes perfect sense. And I don't see a rational way out of it.
There's a disturbing conclusion to this. We all think we're right. So in a way, we're all insane.
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ReplyDeleteWhen someone "self projects"- do they actually believe what they are saying? Is this common? A girlfriend who I strongly suspect is sociopathic (or something related) spewed an angry ranting text aimed at me that described herself perfectly. It was like watching a train wreck... fascinating and dreadful.
ReplyDeleteI saw some programme about people who made claims after having accidents. The pavement thing was on that, and there was this one guy who made a claim after he cut him self shaving, and this kids parents sued his school after he tripped over in the playground. Its good to know that if things get rough I can always split my head open and make a cool £5000.
ReplyDeleteOf course they believe it. If they didn't they wouldn't do it. The only other reason to do it is to gain or degrade. Want something fun to do? Be a blank canvas. People will project everything on you. It's funny to watch as you just nod and they dig that hole deeper. Eventually they always give up something. Something you can use. Then you can twist the knife to your hearts content. After all they stabbed themselves. You just let them do it. So anon now its your turn. Turn it all around on her. Drag up everything she ever did even slightly wrong. The moment the she starts to give her rebuttal walk away/hang up. It should piss her off extremely. Also could really let you know if she is a S. If she feels bad about the stuff she isn't. Of course if she doesn't feel bad about it it doesn't mean she is one. Rather it would be just another hint if she is or isn't. If she does feel bad though you should make her buy you something. Something really nice. It will make you feel better too. Silly anons.
ReplyDeleteUh. Kesu, nodding is just the same.
ReplyDeleteAhh 'the flop'. I knew a guy once. All ya need is an old boxing injury or something the like. Fractured skull, and you'll make a mint. I can't believe that still works.
Anonymous at 1:14:
ReplyDeleteNo. My point is that actual sociopaths don’t need to resort to nihilism to be sociopathic. They are instinctively antisocial due a mixture of nature and nurture and choice.
"There is a disturbing conclusion to this. We all think we're right. So in a way, we're all insane."
ReplyDeleteThat is why he Anon described his observation as fascinating and dreadful.
If insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.(fix, fix, fix) Or holding a fascinating and dreadful certainty.I(I am right)
What is left then just to see the whole thing as perfect and whole with a keen eye for flexibility.
HavenNyx, have you actually tried cultivating pro-social emotions and thought habits? There is evidence that BPD can be treated. It was once believed that those with personality disorders were beyond all hope. It would take a lot of effort, but if deep seated disordered personality traits can in any way be altered in such a way that the person so afflicted can lead a healthier, happier life, then the work is worth it.
ReplyDelete@I love TN What do you mean nodding is just the same?
ReplyDeleteIf I take advantage of someones weakness it is their fault for having that weakness. So in turn I see all my actions as justified and all their actions as a type of insanity.
ReplyDeleteUntil someone does all those things to you and yours. Kesu, if you can’t make the distinction and see why it's rationally consistent to do so, then there is indeed something objectively wrong with your perception.
M.E is your real name CHAD?
ReplyDeleteWhy is that anon? Don't just state something and expect it to speak for itself. Give me proof why something is wrong. Other wise you are just another monkey pushing keys on a keyboard randomly.
ReplyDeleteThere has to be a motivation to desire change. If you don’t have the belief that there is anything wrong, there is nothing to be fixed. Despite what others may say.
ReplyDelete@Soulfulpath … I agree completely that a good environment is essential to the healthiest development. There is an aspect of nature though that can’t always be corrected by environment. I had a very lovely upbringing with wonderful (albeit flawed – as all humans are) parents. It probably prepared me to cope as best I can, gave me the ability to recognize and change what I want to change… but it doesn’t change the fact that I can’t manage to get off the mental/emotional rollercoaster that is my life and my PD. I know it, I see it, I even understand it as far as I can AND I have a good support base to help me through the rougher spots, but it’s not enough to place all the blame on the environment. Maybe I’m already fucked and there’s no help to be had and I should just ride it out because I was screwed up from the get go ::shrug:: I’m not gonna though.
"There is something wrong with people who get abused and don't fight their abuser tooth, nail, and claw."
ReplyDelete"The moment the she starts to give her rebuttal walk away/hang up. It should piss her off extremely."
Thats your idea of fighting tooth and nail?. Shit I wouldn't want to piss you off, you might walk away. how long do you think that would work? Hit and run tactics are only going to work if you make sure the other person doesn't get back up.
Anon 9:34:
ReplyDelete"malignant narcissism is the true psychopathy, these individuals are narcissistic and paronoid to the extreme."
No, it is not!
If it was, psychopathy would not be named psychopathy, it would be named 'Malignant Narcissism'.
It's true that the two personality types can be hard to distinguish in an everyday social setting, but that doesn't make them the same thing. They are two different things.
What you may be mixing it up with also, is the fact that they can co-relate in an individual.
I wish people would at least check out the definitions before beginning to re-write them! There's confusion enough as it is. - Not that that is necessarily bad, but it can present obstacles and slow down processes.
Anon 11:23:
"'Those few actual psychopaths that write halfway intelligent comments here'"
...etc. etc.
Are you under the impression that I'm participating here in order to tell you that I'm a diagnosed psychopath? You damn childish kindergarden fool! Go throw your mud in the schoolyard where you belong.
Sometimes it's almost entertaining to watch those of you who come on here day after day throwing around you with statements about what a psychopath is and who is a psychopath and who isn't and who wants to be one and who tries to give the impression they are one, and so on and on and on, endlessly.
Those who share these traits know who are what around here, there's no need to debate or discuss that little detail. And it's very, very old by now!
Go watch a splatter movie or something. You're clearly looking for something you won't find. You can't tell who is a psychopath from reading people's posts unless you are yourself one, and even then it may not always be apparent.
If you really have an interest in the subject the least you can do is learn about the definitions. NArcissism is not psychopathy and vice versa, though they can be hard to tell apart in an official soial setting.
You will find they consist of a very small number of the thousands of human traits that exist, and that means psychopaths come in as many shapes and sizes as do normal, empathic people - and yet, no: They are even more different in between because they tend to have strong and big personalities.
What's more: They're great at displaying fronts that seem like everything other than psychopathic. So if some of the participants on this board do not come across as psychopathic to you, little man, it is most likely because they don't want to!
But you never thought about that possibility, di ya!
Psychopaths express themselves differently, some are intellectual and have high IQs, some are forthright, frank and don't sugar coat anything, some prefer the aggressive direct approach, some are cautious and like to not let you see them coming. In short, they're DIFFERENT! Like human beings tend to be (and yes, psychopaths are a human variety, even though somebody like Stout and other charlatans like to spread the notion we're not human, or even demonic and other such nonsensical simpleton bullshit).
Look, go home and get some warm milk. You have some growing up to do and you're wasting my god damned time!
@misanthrope All I said to that anon was for just shits and giggles. It doesn't sound like he is fighting an abuser. He hasn't even said that shes abused him. I don't care if she does. Why would I care if he was getting hit with a hammer on a daily basis by her? If he was then he should find a bigger hammer and hit her back. I'm just telling him if she is just playing stupid little mind games with him to play some equally trivial mind games back. Obviously he wants to be there or he wouldn't be. Also, take in the fact that this guy is probably a norm. So telling him to do something like empty her bank account void her rent check and then act like you have no idea what happened is probably a little too severe for him. Like I said man it's all for shits and giggles. The guy didn't even ask for help. So I told him something harmless.
ReplyDeleteKesu, I mean that nodding is the same as agreeing, and thus being what they desire, which is almost always a good thing, and as such I don't understand why you so desperate to say that you don't do what others want.
ReplyDelete@Nodding is not the same as agreeing. Have you never sat in the same room as an idiot and were forced to nod to get him to shut up? I do things people want me to do all the time. My landlord wants me to pay the rent. I don't want to pay my rent. I do it though because not doing it would be making the decision to be homeless. The thing I was getting at was that I did things not for them but for me. I pay my rent because I have a nice place. It is comfortable. This is just a debate over semantics.
ReplyDeleteAnon
ReplyDeleteThinking Jonestown, eh?
Anon (again)
"but i should also say that although i have my suspicions, i'm not entirely convinced that there are real sociopaths on this site."
Hint: You're ALMOST right. But there are a few real ones around.
"i'm not sure that a sociopath can truley understand their condition, even after diagnosis."
That's what the clinical psychologists said as well. But how do you prove I don't understand what I say? Besides, I don't lie - there are things I don't understand, and I'm quite frank about it. I'm hoping that maybe, just maybe, someone can explain some of the things that seem mysterious to me but seem so self given to most people.
"if that is the case, i guess the self proclaimed and most seemingly sociopathic individuals on this site are simply terrible people, which is even worse...."
Well that's your opinion, and you're entitled to that as I am to mine.
Can we move on now?...
Anon 12:35:
"Even without people like you posting here, I can look at "normal" people and accept myself just fine. You only reinforce it."
How well said. I like it. ;)
Anon 1:03:
"Accepting yourself is one thing. In fact, it’s the first thing you need to do in order to get better..."
Christ! Go away, already!
Okay, I didn't mean that (for the sake of free speech). - No, I'll refrain from commenting...
Well. No shit Kesu, that's what I've been talking talking about the whole time obviously.
ReplyDeleteAnd Zhawq... <3. Ha. You make me giggle.
Ted bundy is the king socio. Why live when you will never amount to his status?
ReplyDeleteI know better than to ask for help on a sociopath blog!!!!
ReplyDeleteIt was fascinating because it showed me who she really was inside. Dreadful because she could be really cool.
She is a low quality con artist hustler type. I don't need to fuck with her life, she will self destruct on her own.
Anyone else find the urge to tell the truth and just say "You wish."
ReplyDeleteYou wish about what and to who?
ReplyDeleteYou wish about "I don't need to fuck with her life, she will self destruct on her own." to Anon.
ReplyDeleteAwwwwww. Yeah pretty much. That is why I was telling him to get his kicks now. Btw what does the TN stand for in your name?
ReplyDeleteHey- I love tn
ReplyDeleteI do wish- however, she will self destruct on her own. I'm pretty confident about that.
"If he was a real sociopath the audience wouldn't with stay the character for that many seasons. The writers needed to soften him to let people empathise."
ReplyDeleteDexter is not a psychopath, If he were a true psychopath nobody would like him, they would be disgusted by his deeds and his perversion.
It let me down when i saw some people idolize him on here when he stands for the opposite of what we are about, it's as if psychopathy is becoming acceptable to the facebook generation.
Put Sam vaknin on TV show and I'd watch it, you can try to portray a psychopath as much as you want but it will NEVER work out.
ReplyDeleteDexter is one of my favorite tv shows too.
ReplyDeleteI am dating a sociopath. After dating him for approximately 3 months, he admitted this to me. I almost dropped him on the spot.
I asked why he even needed a girlfriend and he told me he enjoys my company, he feels good when I'm around and thinks I am a cool chick.
I took a few weeks and let this announcement sink in and decided to give him a chance. I thought what the hell. I am very thick skinned, alloof and independant and don't like needy people myself. They annoy me. So I thought that he might keep me interested for more than 6 months.
He is a sociopath for sure. He treats me well. Pays for everything. I am of value to him, and I know in which way. He shows affection in his own way. I like how he is. It's comfortable.
He is mean ocassionally, but so am I. We get along very well. I have been with him for going on two years now. I am not expecting anything, so it's a fun ride for now.
"He is a sociopath for sure. He treats me well. Pays for everything. I am of value to him, and I know in which way. He shows affection in his own way. I like how he is. It's comfortable."
ReplyDeleteIs his name TheNotablePath?
On the radio today Sheen was referred to as Sheenis (think penis, think dick). Isn't that cute, little Sheenis...
ReplyDeleteI just realized Beethoven was quite a sociopath, did any of you know this already?
People seem too enthralled with psychotics, madmen, and the deliberately wicked, not bothering to even learn what it is they are defining in their own flavor.
ReplyDeleteA lot of the naysayers here couldn't tell a psychopath from a harmless pup unless one looked like Hannibal Lecter or the other sprouted a furry tail.
Psychopaths, Sociopaths, Narcissists, Antisocials, Paranoids, and all the co-morbid delights are medical conditions. They aren't an achievement for your Xbox when you role-play the Bastard.
If you think you can diagnose someone with your Arm Chair PHD, you're sadly mistaken.
As to the daily post, they can both choke in a puddle of aids filled with cigarette butts and used condoms. Now THAT would make the news!
@TNP... Hah. Pretty sure that is how Lohan will go out. Sheen has to finish his tour first, and I doubt he'd bother with condoms.
ReplyDeleteI don't really think that Beethoven was a sociopath.
ReplyDeleteHe was just a narcissistic dick.
If he was I don't think he would have been able to write the music that he did. The most he would have been able to do was basically copy someone else.
He was indeed a raging asshole, though. Partially because he was in so much physical pain all the time, and because of his hearing loss.
Dude was suicidal.
It's been surmised that he was bipolar.
You and your "Sociopaths are incapable of art," bullshit.
ReplyDeleteWe've had this conversation before, and your point was proved false by several people. Your justification? 1. Peter Pan did stick figure art. 2. Sociopaths lack the emotions capable to do art.
You're a hilarious tragedy.
He is a sociopath for sure. He treats me well. Pays for everything. I am of value to him, and I know in which way. He shows affection in his own way. I like how he is. It's comfortable.
ReplyDeleteLucky for you sweet tart. The sociopath I was involved with was broke. And I had to pay for most everything. And what money he did have he used for his other women. Kinda fucked. I like your situation better.
Alright, Not Able.
ReplyDeletePlease give me some examples of an original sociopathic creative person. Not just asshole narc creatives.
There's many more reasons why a sociopath would find it difficult to be an artist besides the (important) fact of being emotionally challenged.
Might I remind you that just because a person does art and music doesn't automatically make a person creative.
The Peter Pan thing was a joke. I know you have absolutely no sense of humor though. None at all.
Jack Abbott. "In the Belly of the Beast." Google him. Clearly sociopathic, by every definition of the word. He writes about the experience with a stomach punch.
ReplyDeleteYou can define "not enough emotion" however you want. But rage and alienation are emotions as well, whether or not the softer gentler ones co-exist with that.
And then again, to say that the softer gentler ones are non-existent in ALL socios is to adhere too strongly to specific labels.
In fact, as you noted before, the labels are relative. They're also static and without life. Human beings are rarely that.
Uh, your example is an autobiography. How is that creative or imaginative?
ReplyDeleteSome of the people that comment here write in a "stomach punching" manner, but that doesn't make them creative, imaginative, or genius.
Try again.
Alienation is not an emotion.
ReplyDeleteRage is, sure. But to focus that rage long enough into an original work of art? To have the drive to do so without ulterior intent? Unlikely.
So now you know the difference between a narcissistic prick and a sociopath artist? Indulge me.
ReplyDeleteMost people can know sociopaths for years and never know that they are what they are.
As for emotions, no, it isn't a valid point at all. Schizoids are emotionally devoid, not Psychopaths/Sociopaths, you're mixing your PDs up.
And as Random said, a great amount of art has been born from anger and alienation.
Try again.
Ulterior motives when making art?
ReplyDeleteYou're a poor troll, or a complete moron. Or both.
When did I say that sociopaths were emotionally devoid?
ReplyDeleteThe bigger issue is drive, intent, and focus anyhow. And the desire for communication and connection.
a great amount of art has been born from anger and alienation.
Uh, duh.
But just because someone feels these things doesn't make them an artist. They'd have to actually MAKE ART to be an artist.
Yes, ulterior motives. Lady Gaga is a great example. Her shit is obviously not about the music, or even about the 'performance art' as she calls it.
ReplyDelete(No, I'm not saying she's a sociopath.)
I've already told you that I'm an artist from several disciplines, as have several people here who identify as S types, and one person's friend who is apparently a famous artist.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing required to make "original art" is an original idea, or at least an idea you haven't run across. The notion that it requires the emotional gambit is absurd. It's called an imagination.
You think I'd be incapable of making art that has the ability to connect with people?
Are you really this stupid? Really? Or is this just a game? Because if you're making yourself look like a complete idiot just to get a few laughs from the fact that I respond, I have no qualms with rubbing your own shit in your face.
"They'd actually have to make art in order to be an artist."
ReplyDeleteDuh back at you. Did I ever imply otherwise.
And yes, you did say "emotionally challenged" as opposed to "emotionally devoid. But my argument still holds. It's a quibble over semantics, a cheap way to counter a valid point.
Medusa thinks shes smart but all she does is try to prove shes right because shes to o stubborn to admit shes wrong so dont pay attention to her. Shes not stupid Not Able shes just average and catty.
ReplyDeleteAnonylon thinks their smart but all they do is prove they're right because they are too stubborn to admit they are wrong so don't pay attention to them. They are not stupid Not Able they are just leave stupid posts
ReplyDeleteGaga not being an Artist? I'd say she's a hack for a singer and horribly cliche, but I don't think that excludes her. If you think about it, a lot of great bands and groups have had super simple lyrics that borrow off the same ideas that have been written and sung since we could. She at least brings a wacky aesthetic to the scene, and is so manly looking when she's trying to be 80's sexy that I can't help but laugh.
ReplyDeleteFrom Wiki
"Art is the product or process of deliberately arranging items (often with symbolic significance) in a way that influences and affects one or more of the senses, emotions, and intellect. It encompasses a diverse range of human activities, creations, and modes of expression, including music, literature, film, photography, sculpture, and paintings. The meaning of art is explored in a branch of philosophy known as aesthetics, and even disciplines such as history and psychology analyze its relationship with humans and generations."
And why wouldn't I be able to do that? Don't answer the rhetorical question, you halfwit.
I've already told you that I'm an artist from several disciplines
ReplyDeleteSo? That doesn't make you a Beethoven. Which is the whole point in the first place.
The only thing required to make "original art" is an original idea
Sure, but "original" doesn't automatically mean worthwhile, good, or genius.
You think I'd be incapable of making art that has the ability to connect with people?
Yes. And not even because you are a sociopath, or whatever it is you are.
Your whole argument is just about your own narcissism. You can't stand the fact that a sociopath, or even just you, might be incapable of being great at everything in the universe. Which is part and parcel of your condition, of course.
Aside from all this, this is all straying from the original point. Sure, a sociopath can call themselves an 'artist' or whatever and maybe even do halfway decent stuff, but I don't think they'd ever be capable of being a Beethoven.
Or is this just a game?
When is it never a game around here? Especially between you and I.
Ohhh, so if I'm not Beethoven stock, I'm not a real artist.
ReplyDeleteJust making sure I understand your valued argument points here.
I know I'm not good at several art disciplines, I tried them until i realized I didn't have what it takes. The others that I did however, I stuck with (at least for a while) and it wasn't my narcissism that gave me the idea I am good, but accolades from my peers and those who taught me.
Your entire argument against S types purely stands on baseless presumption with no proof as to why they can't connect with someone on any level with art, be it emotions, intellect or the senses.
It's like saying only witches swim and black people are too stupid read and write.
You're the PD equivalent of a racist. Even if you know better, you'll never admit it. This conversation is worthless, other than the fact that you are making yourself look even more stupid, which is mildly pleasing.
Fucking masochists, how do they work?
Medusa, this is ridiculous. You just keep toggling definitions to suit your goal. Your original point is that sociopaths can't produce art. You assume there's no drive. It's silly. Everyone has a drive to communicate. If someone is enraged and alienated, as socios often are, that drive will often take a very private, personal form such as art.
ReplyDeleteThe best art (if you believe some critics) tends to make people uncomfortable. Why? Because it exists outside the bounds of what's acceptable. It begs questions. It explodes categories and boundaries and neatly ticked boxes that attempt to explain the world in one gulp.
Often it's intensely amoral. To assert that socios can't be artists (and that only empaths can) is absurd.
A lot of my art is pretty dark and "uncomfortable", Random. And I'm not talking weepy emo crap "dark".
ReplyDeleteMaybe the only reason it tends to be that way is that I need something extreme and uncomfortable to make so it stimulates me to something new, so that not only can I express what's really on my mind and "soul", but that others can be liberated from the boring, cliche crap around them. Sometimes they like it and are moved by it. Sometimes it sickens them, not for lack of taste so much as the level of depravity.
I like it a lot when people get really angry when they read something in my books or stories, their level of frustration. You can see how they bonded to a character who either betrayed their trust, or died, or something almost equally foul happened to them. And they're my characters, my babies, you know? So I rarely take pleasure in doing horrible things to them in ways they can't recover.
Almost any writer you talk to will tell you the same, that they bond with the characters they make. They become extensions of ourselves, or projections of something we desperately want to show.
In that way, I can definitely connect with my "audience" through my art.
I never said there was no such thing as a sociopathic artist, or even a good sociopathic artist. I said that there was no such thing as one capable of Beethoven quality and genius.
ReplyDeleteThe very definition of sociopathy precludes as much.
Comparing it to racism? Man, you are really stretching it now.
I'd compare it more to an amputee. If you don't have legs, you can't walk. Or, if you are flat-footed and bow-legged, it's unlikely that you are going to be a very good ballet dancer. If you don't have big muscles, you won't be a champion weight lifter. These are facts, not personal opinions or judgements. It doesn't imply an inferior person, just limitations in specific areas, which everyone has.
it wasn't my narcissism that gave me the idea I am good, but accolades from my peers and those who taught me.
Yeah, that is narcissism. Not necessary good or bad narcissism, but if you need someone to tell you that you are good to understand the value of your creations, you are not that good. Artistic genius is a need. It's not about wondering if what you do is good or bad in the eyes of the world, it's about survival and existence first a foremost. Not acceptance or praise. That stuff is nothing more than icing on the cake for one's ego.
You are talking about art in general, I am talking about genius. Get this through your thick skull, would you?
Your original point is that sociopaths can't produce art.
ReplyDeleteI never fucking said that. I'm talking about the difference between art and artistic genius.
Why can't you people get that? Can you read?
The best art (if you believe some critics) tends to make people uncomfortable. Why? Because it exists outside the bounds of what's acceptable. It begs questions. It explodes categories and boundaries and neatly ticked boxes that attempt to explain the world in one gulp.
Often it's intensely amoral. To assert that socios can't be artists (and that only empaths can) is absurd.
I agree with all of this. Again, I never said socios can't be artists. I only said they can't be artistic geniuses. How many times do I have to say this?
And to explain to you why this is in a way that you would understand would be impossible, because of your condition.
In fact, most normals don't even understand it.
ReplyDeleteThey are moved by something, but don't really know why, except in a very vague, emotional sense.
I can read quite well. And you can substitute "capable of genius" vs. just "capable of art" in any of my statements, and my argument still holds.
ReplyDeleteAs I noted before, as some critics assert, the BEST art tends to make people uncomfortable. Why? Because it explodes accepted notions. It defies standard categories and tends to call them into question.
The BEST art is often essentially amoral. To say that only empaths can create it is absurd. (Are you happy that I explicitly included the "BEST" now?)
I hate to repeat myself, but I've been accused of not being able to read. So I'll just write it over again and again until somehow, magically, you at least admit that I can type. :P
But really, this is tiresome. If it's true that most normals don't even understand it, why assert that only they can be artistic geniuses.
And before you accuse me of implying that only socios can create great art (and I have a feeling you will), I should note that socios are only one aspect of the category of people who create amoral art. It might be trite to say this, but in this society there's plenty of rage and alienation all around.
ReplyDeleteAnd great art can be an expression of deep connectedness too. Please don't accuse me of saying that it can't.
Thank you in advance. :P
edit: "that it can't be." Because I have a feeling you can be a grammar nazi too, when it suits you. :D
ReplyDeleteRandom, why are you repeating what I already agreed with?
ReplyDeleteThere is a big leap between having the talent to make people uncomfortable and such a thing being considered superior art, let alone genius.
I mean, doesn't sadistic porn do that? Does that mean it's art?
Sociopaths may have a talent for making people uncomfortable and being amoral, but it doesn't automatically make them and artistic genius, or even imply that they are even any good.
Your logic has holes, you are missing the rest of the equation.
Still waiting for someone to give me even a single example of artistic genius by a sociopath. Certainly, if you are correct, there must be at least one in the history of the world that has been outed.
Plenty of narcissists and malignant narcissists, sure. But sociopaths, not so much.
Also, let me ask you this as an aside, out of curiosity. Have you ever been moved to tears by a work of art of a piece of music?
So you've twisted your argument from the inability to do high quality work, to near any work at all, and now to genius, of all things.
ReplyDeleteYour limbless analogy is wildly erroneous and only an ignoramus would nod their head in approval.
You pick the most well known composer of all time and say, "Hey, show me a sociopath that's as good as him," and expect a reply? May as well ask an omnipotent god to pick up a rock too heavy for it to lift.
With few exceptions (de Sade, Byron) most deviants of any worth or note weren't open about it, so to ask me to produce a known Sociopath example of a historical genius of all things is ridiculous. You don't even have a solid claim that Beethoven wasn't a sociopath, just that you have a hunch and that someone decided to diagnose a long dead man as Bi-Polar.
Beethoven wasn't bi-polar, he was bi-winning.
Also, let me ask you this as an aside, out of curiosity. Have you ever been moved to tears by a work of art of a piece of music?
ReplyDeleteYes. A good piece of moving music can conjure a few tears, but not the death of a best friend or family member. Gotta love this mind of mine.
So you've twisted your argument from the inability to do high quality work, to near any work at all, and now to genius, of all things.
ReplyDeleteInteresting. This is where we come full circle... back to the projection I was talking about in my first comment.
You are the one that did that. You twisted my point about artistic genius into one about art in general.
I suppose my mistake was in this sentence: "The most he would have been able to do was basically copy someone else." I admit that was probably unfair. But I still say that if Beethoven was a sociopath, he would be incapable of the quality he was able to bring forth. It might still be very very good, but not genius.
You pick the most well known composer of all time and say, "Hey, show me a sociopath that's as good as him," and expect a reply?
I didn't pick it, anon 8:03 did.
You don't even have a solid claim that Beethoven wasn't a sociopath
Do you have a solid claim was he was? Or are all assholes sociopaths until proven otherwise?
Yes. A good piece of moving music can conjure a few tears, but not the death of a best friend or family members.
ReplyDeleteThis is exactly the response I was expecting. (And also how I generally feel.)
Now, why do you think it moved you so? What exactly was it that brought the tears? What feelings, thoughts?
Hmmm, isn't the main purpose of orgiastic and emotional music catharsis? It's my favourite principle of art.
ReplyDeleteNow I'm wondering if the whole problem we are having here is this sentence as well:
ReplyDeleteIf he was I don't think he would have been able to write the music that he did.
Did you read that as me saying he wouldn't be able to make music at all? Because that's not what I meant. I was trying to say that it would have been of a different quality.
It's a moot point. You can't prove he isn't. I can't prove he is.
ReplyDeleteI don't know how it happens, or why. I don't have a single memory of me ever being sad or morose from a life event. When a score plays though, I feel something and it just happens, like a sneeze. I might feel a little tight in the chest, or choke a bit, and then it's gone.
However, I can probably count on one hand how many songs have caused this. One of them is in a language I can't understand, and the other is a classical score. I'd have to waste a few hours tracking down the others.
tl;dr
You're wrong about sociopathic artists, and someone needs to grab me a tissue.
F#$%. I just lost a very long comment.
ReplyDeleteOf course something isn't art just because it makes someone uncomfortable. That's absurd. And no, porn isn't art. But alienation and anger do often fuel art (we've already agreed.) Humans have an innate drive to communicate. (We've already agreed--or I think we have, anyway..) Art is often amoral. (I think we've already agreed.) Socios often have all these qualities. I don't understand why you keep excluding them from the ability to do great artwork (as the argument now goes.)
It's just childish.
You can't diagnose someone in absentia. There's a great deal of evidence Picasso was socio. He was amoral and definitely didn't lean towards an innate sense of empathy in his relationships. He was one of the great pioneers.
But of course, by your argument, he couldn't have been a socio because he created great art. He must have been a narcissist. It's so circular, it makes my head spin.
And no, art DOES NOT have to considered GREAT before it's VALID ART. It's a personal expression, for shit's sakes. It's deeply meaningful to the person who creates it. Beyond that, it really doesn't fucking matter whether someone considers it great or not.
Really, the world does not operate according to some neatly checked box: Socio, check. Therefore, is incapable of... Non-socio, check. Therefore is capable of...
You seem to want to fit the world into one box or another, all kinds of experiences and emotions. If a diagnostic category helps someone make sense of some aspect of his or her experience, then fine. But you can't cram everything into a category. Eventually the sides no longer hold.
.
I don't know how it happens, or why.
ReplyDeleteThis is my take:
It's because way deep far down, in a deep dark subconscious abyss beyond your awareness, and in your genes, and in your blood, you honestly feel a connection to the world and it's inhabitants. The tears are not about sadness.
As gross and disgusting as it sounds, it's the "oneness" of things and the world, which is within you and which you are a part of, that moves. That's where you are human.
Aargh! I keep losing comments. The conversation is past them now, and my points have already been addressed, so there's no use restating them.
ReplyDeleteIt's called sublimation. What you can't express in day to day gets channelled into artwork or is often experienced through the art of others.
So the theory goes. :) And apparently the experience as well.
What you can't express in day to day gets channelled into artwork or is often experienced through the art of others.
ReplyDeleteYes.
Freud called it 'sublimation'. Jung called it the 'collective unconscious'. Gnostics and Kabbalists call it the 'divine spark'. Artists call 'inspiration'. Spectators call it 'art'. Many more call it God.
Etcetera, etcetera.
Yes. And you're excluding sociopaths from the ability to do GREAT art (so the argument now goes) because?
ReplyDeleteAnd don't tell me it has to do with focus and drive. Everyone has the drive to communicate. If it isn't communicated or experienced in the day to day, the drive becomes even stronger. (See sublimation again.)
Btw, TNP, here's a tissue. :) I don't feel like crying yet, but i feel as though I've fallen into some strange vortex of illogic, or as if the Queen of Hearts is now setting the terms of the debate, and it's all so bizarre, I do feel like screaming.
And you're excluding sociopaths from the ability to do GREAT art (so the argument now goes) because?
ReplyDeleteBecause their whole existence is the denial and the disdain of said 'oneness'. To be a great artist is to be a mere vessel for something that is beyond themselves. I don't see a sociopath as being willing to allow that. They are too closed off, living in a tiny world from which artistic genius cannot spring forth, and into which it cannot enter.
Edit: If emotions and connections are communicated in the day to day, the drive for an alternative form (such as art) becomes even stronger.
ReplyDeleteNow you're just contradicting yourself. Quote Medusa:
ReplyDelete"It's because deep down... you honestly feel a connection to the world and its inhabitants."
It doesn't matter if that connection is "distorted" under some definitions. It still exists. And in fact (if you agree with the idea of sublimation), the more distorted or repressed it is, the greater the likelihood that it will be channelled into another medium, such as art.
I feel that this could go around and around and around forever. Here's what I think: A) You're determined to be right at all costs, and you'll just keep switching up the rules in order to do so.
B) You seem obsessed with fitting everything into some neat category of socio vs. non-socio. If a a diagnostic category helps someone make sense of some aspect of his or her experiences, then fine. It's done its job. But it just can't contain everything. You can't keep pushing all emotions and experiences into a neat little category. Eventually the sides (and the center) just won't hold.
I'm tired now. I can't keep chasing some ever-moving point of light across the landscape like a trained animal. All I can say is that eventually, you're going to be surprised at how little human beings meet your pre-conceived notions of what the world is about. Including yourself and your own behavior.
Now you're just contradicting yourself. Quote Medusa: "It's because deep down... you honestly feel a connection to the world an"d its inhabitants."
ReplyDeleteI was hoping you would say this :)
The contradiction is absolutely correct, but it's not me doing the contradicting. The fact that TNP feels this connection (not to mention that he says he desires to liberate others from "the boring, cliche crap around them" - what sociopath cares about that?) leads me to conclude that:
1. Either TNP is not really a sociopath, or
2. Sociopathy is not merely a personality variation, but an actual disorder and a denial of themselves in the deepest sense, a living tragedy of massive cognitive dissonance. A person this fucked up has too many obstacles and blinders on to attain genius.
You seem obsessed with fitting everything into some neat category of socio vs. non-socio.
Most sociopaths here are obsessed with doing this to themselves. They make a point of painting a very clear line with the stuff they say here, with a sense of pride and superiority and separateness. It's how they define themselves, often the only way they know how to do so, and is the lens through which they see the world. Just take a look at everyone's usernames. So don't give me that bullshit.
Two wrongs don't make a right (in regards to last statement.)
ReplyDeleteNo, Medusa. Humans are wired for some connection, we're primates. If it isn't expressed in the day to day, it will find some way to get itself communicated. The fact that it isn't expressed in the day to day is only disorder by subjective definition. It could be adaptation. It could be wiring. It could be any number of things.
But the original argument had nothing to do with the relative fucked-upedness of sociopaths. (Another every-changing point of light.) First it had to do with whether there was enough emotion to do art. Then it had to do with whether there was enough emotion to do GREAT art.
You've just argued against yourself essentially and proven that yes, it's possible for socios to do art.
Now you've moved the bar again. And it has to do with relative notions of fucked-upedness (for lack of a better term.)
Yes, socio behavior is often destructive. I don't think ANYONE on this blog would ever deny it.
But it isn't as though the only capability is for destructive behavior. That's where the all or nothing clinging to category comes in.
If you keep denying other people's humanity, you'll keep getting what you ask for.
That isn't to say destructive behavior wouldn't take place anyway or that you're the sole cause of it. But if you fix people into categories and deny that they're capable of anything but YOUR interpretation of what people in that category can and can't do, you're just helping to create another double bind.
This is completely silly---including my compulsion to keep chasing the changing bar. I really am done now.
No. Except I want to clear up one of my own contradictions. Yes, we're wired for emotion and communication to a certain degree. Variations in that wiring may make some people less disposed to communicate or experience that in the day to day. But we still need to communicate. Life tends to find ways to allow us to do that, in one way or another, whether it's considered healthy or not.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm sorry. But I believe TNP is socio. Just from his experiences. And yes, he does have emotions, as do I. (Although I suspect I'm more bpd than anything. I won't go into why, because it will leave me vulnerable here.)
Emotions are always experienced or expressed in the same way. Life is just not that neat and tidy.
Random,
ReplyDeleteat 9:19 - Well said.
edit: I meant to say "aren't." :D
ReplyDeleteThanks, Zhawq
Hey notable why do you write like a retard?
ReplyDelete"Your limbless analogy is wildly erroneous and only an ignoramus would nod their head in approval."
ReplyDeleteWTF is that?! Not able your not only unconvincing as a socio, you're unconvincing as a human being. And yes I understand that sentence, but it's still fucking weird.
"Beethoven wasn't bi-polar, he was bi-winning"
ReplyDeleteHA
The only psychopaths I've heard of being artis were the one that were locked up, and that is a ploy, psychopaths have no creative ability at all, we are sly.
ReplyDelete"The fact that TNP feels this connection (not to mention that he says he desires to liberate others from "the boring, cliche crap around them" - what sociopath cares about that?"
ReplyDeleteAgreed.
Show me a picture of ur eyes notable. i can tell a psychopath by their eyes.
ReplyDeleteBloody hell. The amount of back peddling and squirming in that conversation... You've got a ridiculously romanticised idea of art Medusa.
ReplyDeleteRandom, you are lost, and stuck in some sort of mental quicksand. You are not understanding a thing. There is no way you will be able to see this, though.
ReplyDeleteI've been there -- but then I got over it.
Good luck to you.
Nothing romantic about it, dear.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry for you that you see it that way.
If you were a creative person you would know that true creation is about as romantic as a heroin addiction or the process of giving birth.
ReplyDelete... I am a creative person, I never said I thought it was, I said that's what you're doing to it.
ReplyDeleteOh that reminds me, Kesu, tn doesn't stand for anything, the whole thing's an anagram.
ReplyDeleteMedusa, you nailed it.
ReplyDelete"It's because way deep far down, in a deep dark subconscious abyss beyond your awareness, and in your genes, and in your blood, you honestly feel a connection to the world and it's inhabitants. The tears are not about sadness.
As gross and disgusting as it sounds, it's the "oneness" of things and the world, which is within you and which you are a part of, that moves. That's where you are human."
I experience this oneness as a constant. I carry almost no sentimental attachment to people. Yet I see the splendor of life in each individual. Life and death feels natural elements of the same mystery as do pleasure and pain. They are for my entertainment and me for theirs. I use them and they use me. Using as defined as how a roots use a soil.
Thank you for addressing the paradox of "alien" detachment and its ability simultaneously experience wholeness. Its an awe inspiring and humbling paradox. And overlooked because we are so wrapped up in our occupying dramas, power trips and survival games to see the beauty everywhere.
Nicely said.
ReplyDeleteYes. Except you disagree with all of it. You spent an entire night denying "the ability to simultaneously experience wholeness."
ReplyDeleteNice spin, though.
I love when someone puts quotes around something I didn't actually say. A phrase that doesn't even make any grammatical sense, to boot.
ReplyDeleteWhat, are you TMZ or some shit?
Twist, twist away. You missed the whole point. I feel bad for your poor cognitive abilities, but at least you have fair-to-middling dick-licking talent. That can take you places.
Medusa If you want to get any more defensive, you're going to have to build a castle.
ReplyDeleteYup.
ReplyDeleteYou missed the point, ha!
ReplyDeleteThat's probably your most repeated statement here.
You're not terribly clever or articulate, just enough to get by.
Honey, if everyone is missing your point that you miraculously pull out of your ass half the time after the fact, perhaps you should just say what you mean off the bat. Your initial thought train is apparently not succinct and straight-forward enough as your stance on anything shifts as a pool of bile stored in a squalling baby's diaper.
Misanthrope:
ReplyDelete"By the time I found out she was pregnant I had already moved on to another girl so I didn't want that shit interfering with my life."
But why would you moving on make that interfere with your life? If you'd stayed it might have - would've been hard to avoid - but you moved on?
"I convinced her that her former drug abuse(ecstacy) had probably fucked up her body. I knew that her mum had a miscarriage as well so I convinced her that that was something genetic(which might have been true) and thats how I won."
Yeah, seems you found the right angle, I understand.
"I didn't care about her reaction or far I could push her I'd done enough of that shit during the relationship."
Ah, okay. I see what you mean.
"I just didn't want it."
Hmm....Okay, think I know what it was: Simply just one of those changes in mood and smaller preferences one can have from time to time. - But I take it you were pretty young then, huh? Or you're lying around a lot so that you can afford to be picky?...I was like that when I was younger. One of those 'handsome ones', y'know, who - because I know what to say and read people well and so on - always had a place to stay, and stat comfortably!, oh, so comfortably! - But, like I mentioned in an earlier post, I've changed my perspective, most likely related to my being older and having acquired a taste for something more...grand scale, haha. ;)
"some day you are going to see everyone as having a personality disorder"
ReplyDeleteSome day relatively soon. It seems the DSM-V actually will list many normal human responses as some type of disorder. Look up "DSMV controversy" to read up on what I mean.
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