I have a tendency to not know my limits, either from big things like going 10 days with my appendix ruptured before I finally passed out and was rushed to a hospital, to smaller things like having nicks and scars all over my hands from recklessly handling cooking knives. I eat rotten food and have no real sense that I should stop. I have driven too fast, pushed too hard, lied too much, and turned the screws on people so hard that they snapped. I don't know what it is, I am blind to certain boundaries, certain warning signs that I need to back off of whatever it is that I'm doing.
Another small, but illustrative example -- when I was a child, my parents used to monitor what I ate and in what portions. When I first started eating by myself, it took a while for me to understand not to eat until I vomited. I had no desire to overeat, I wasn't even eating sweets or anything particularly desirable. It was more like I either couldn't feel the sensations of being full, or that I was somehow able to override those sensations, to ignore them and keep eating then promptly wretch it all up into toilets, backyards, parks, parking lots, etc.
These past couple months I pushed myself very hard, particularly mentally. Now I feel a little broken. I can feel that I have hurt myself. I am mentally not all there. I don't feel bad, I just don't feel right. When I go to say something, it's like someone else is saying it, and not what I meant to say. There is a disconnect between me, my conscious self, and the me that is talking and acting like me in the world. I feel like I have a very mild form of alien hand syndrome, but affecting my entire body and mind. The inner me has to some extent vacated the premises, leaving the rest to survive on evolutionary autopilot.
This has happened at least once before for different reasons, and I recovered, but was never quite the same I don't think. I wonder what will happen this time. It's odd thinking that my mind and body can take so much punishment, that I can subjugate my will in so many ways, but that there is finally a breaking point where something will just snap -- an irreparable injury. When I was reading that article about Elon Musk, I found an interesting quote from him, an explanation of why his marriage failed: "I went from working hard to working ridiculously hard. And stress breaks things."
Another small, but illustrative example -- when I was a child, my parents used to monitor what I ate and in what portions. When I first started eating by myself, it took a while for me to understand not to eat until I vomited. I had no desire to overeat, I wasn't even eating sweets or anything particularly desirable. It was more like I either couldn't feel the sensations of being full, or that I was somehow able to override those sensations, to ignore them and keep eating then promptly wretch it all up into toilets, backyards, parks, parking lots, etc.
These past couple months I pushed myself very hard, particularly mentally. Now I feel a little broken. I can feel that I have hurt myself. I am mentally not all there. I don't feel bad, I just don't feel right. When I go to say something, it's like someone else is saying it, and not what I meant to say. There is a disconnect between me, my conscious self, and the me that is talking and acting like me in the world. I feel like I have a very mild form of alien hand syndrome, but affecting my entire body and mind. The inner me has to some extent vacated the premises, leaving the rest to survive on evolutionary autopilot.
This has happened at least once before for different reasons, and I recovered, but was never quite the same I don't think. I wonder what will happen this time. It's odd thinking that my mind and body can take so much punishment, that I can subjugate my will in so many ways, but that there is finally a breaking point where something will just snap -- an irreparable injury. When I was reading that article about Elon Musk, I found an interesting quote from him, an explanation of why his marriage failed: "I went from working hard to working ridiculously hard. And stress breaks things."
For me, I don't feel that breaking point usually. I notice the after shocks. How my body is affected, how my mental state is managing, and how I'm dealing with my every day life. Sometimes, yeah, it does seem like Alien Hand Syndrome, very well put.
ReplyDeleteIt usually only occurs during extreme amounts of stress, but the stress doesn't flip me out consciously, which is the weird thing I guess. Usually when people are stressed out, it's very easy to tell. I can't even tell when I'm stressed out until it's too late.
It's happened to me twice at least.
It's very odd how the mental and physical aspects of 'too late' have a congruent crossover. I wonder if it has something to do with how our brains are wired, or how we're accustomed to dealing with stress through experience.
Try looking at the wikipedia page for Depersonalisation Disorder, you might find it interesting.
ReplyDeleteI've had a pea soup of a brain fog for weeks now, as I tend to do so a couple of times a year, but was delighted today to note that it's clearing. I despise sifting through cognitive dysfunction so have found that eating an Atlantic salmon fillet, taking an industrial strength dose of fish oil, and doing at least one hour of aerobic exercise every single day for no less than two weeks is the only way through it. I'm on my last fillet tonight :) It's taken me rather a few years of trial and error to know what works but obviously everyone is different.
ReplyDeleteSounds like Dissociation to me. Dissociation is a partial or complete disruption of the normal integration of a person’s conscious or psychological functioning. Dissociation can be a response to trauma {the pushing yourself too hard that you mentioned} or drugs and perhaps allows the mind to distance itself from experiences that are too much for the psyche to process at that time. Dissociative disruptions can affect any aspect of a person’s functioning. Since dissociations are normally unanticipated, they are typically experienced as startling, autonomous intrusions into the person's usual ways of responding or functioning.
ReplyDeleteDepersonalization/Derealization in particular. Can often feel like watching yourself from a distance, knowing that the actions are coming from a body you recognize as yours, but have no real connection to what you're doing.
It will pass. How long it takes is never certain though.
Is that what goes through your mind when you strip?
ReplyDeleteDon't strip anymore (got a real job). On stage no; with customers occasionally when there were, less than ideal circumstances.
ReplyDeleteIn those less than ideal circumstances, did your dissociation occur by will or by unconscious reaction?
ReplyDelete"Its like taking a shit in front of someone."
ReplyDeleteA story about the ex and this to come! Right now gotta banan split to woof down. Potassium and protein.
It's an unconscious reaction. I have a dissociative disorder, it happens pretty frequently.
ReplyDeleteFrom my situation, it sounds more like something usefull rather than a disorder, unless you have a job requiring real empathy no matter what the circumstances.
ReplyDeletewhere's the protein in a banana split? you having it with tuna?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIt's a defense mechanism so it's supposed to work for your benefit in taxing situations. It’s actually pretty normal for people to feel brief instances of Dissociation such as Psychological numbing. Psychological numbing is a mental mechanism to prevent psychological trauma. The mind chooses to ignore thoughts or emotions relating to a specific event, occurrence or body of knowledge, emotions, or ideas. It’s a way for the mind to protect itself from extreme emotional trauma, prolonged stress and anxiety or alternatively, etc. Part of your mind and memory are compartmentalized to a different feeling state so you can process them separately, or not at all.
ReplyDeleteWhen this feeling state becomes persistent, that's when it’s identified as a disorder. When it takes over during non-traumatic times and doesn't go away for long periods. When you constantly feel like you're out of your own body or that the world you're walking around in isn't real. It disrupts or breaks down, sensory memory, awareness, identity and/or perception.
For normal empaths (which I’m not) you can detach from emotions {or normal state} altogether, walking around in a sort of perpetual numbness. There's no connection to friends/family, your own body, even your life. When it dissolves your emotions you lose the ability to empathize for people and causes you to not care about how you treat them, be rude, push people away or do things you wouldn't normally do to piss off the people around you. I've had periods lasting weeks to months of this. I've dealt with it long enough that I recognize it, have learned to react to people more appropriately. Generally though, it's a problem. It also just feels really fucking weird.
This is one I have experienced a lot. It is what happens to me after I've been through a huge amount of stress. I personally need huge amounts of stress relief. I think it is because I don't feel stress. My body reacts to it though. Always after the fact. Situations where I have to quickly adapt also spawn this trait. I will literally retreat inside myself and everything will go on autopilot. This helps me though. It is like my mind reorders its self to what it needs to be. It never lasts very long. A week at the longest.
ReplyDeleteSo the difference is sociopath's skill in being aware of and turning this "problem" into an advantage by mirroring expected responses and emotions should they choose to. I'm confused now about which is the deeper level of dissociation.
ReplyDeleteHow about talking about the fact that you are a girl ME?
ReplyDeleteI think the real issue is that you feel out of body... that disconnect between your mind and your body.
ReplyDeleteMimicking normal emotional responses is just one way to control how you externalize it if you choose to appear more normal to those around you. You can't mask how it feels to be in/out of your own skin though. If you can turn that sense of self that's 'vacated the premise' to an advantage, more power to you.
The dissociation itself is the mechanism that happens on its own to self protect whether you want it to or not. How you react to it, is entirely up to your level of functioning.
@anon Well I would say my day to day "acting" is something I know I'm doing for the most part. There are parts that are mirrored automatically that I'm not always actively aware of. For example facial mimicry. This happens so instantly that I rarely realize I'm doing it. Someone smiles I smile. Look sad I look sad. The moment I can't see their face it goes away. It also has made for some strange situations where people will make screwed up faces at me and I will make them back instantly. That is a kind of day to day autopilot thing. However when I'm in full autopilot mode I don't even do the facial mimicry. I have no personality in that state. I can't even answer questions that are based on opinion. It is like my body has literally been vacated. I react to things with no thought. It is the time when I am least active and probably most dangerous. At least as far as physical violence is concerned. I've had people try to do harmless jokes like scare me that immediately receive blows to the face. I would say the state is kind of like lucid dreaming to me. I'm there but I'm not really in control. I always feel like if I reach out I could take control but I never want to. Time is also strange during those states for me. It can slip by rapidly or moments can be dilated.
ReplyDeletenormal people do facial mimicry as well. the whole out of body thing is just messed up, but nothing to do with sociopathy.
ReplyDeletein fact sociopaths can't have depersonalization because it's caused by anxiety. sociopaths have very low levels of anxiety.
ReplyDeleteBorderlines aren't the only ones that dissociate, all cluster b personalities are prone to dissociative states, or mental breakdowns.
ReplyDelete"sociopaths have very low levels of anxiety"
ReplyDeleteThat's a myth, why are some serial murderers social recluses in their teen years? Sociopaths have no anxiety once they know how to push your buttons, everyone feels anxiety.
Mugabe and hitler were also loners.
ReplyDelete@Anon... never said just Borderlines dissociate. In fact, I said it's pretty common for people to experience in general {for brief instances}.
ReplyDeleteI imagine you're right with the whole Cluster B group being more prone to dissociation. We tend to be very emotionally turbulent, with lower ability to deal with stressors.
Psychopathy doesn't just sprout out of nowhere, the person becomes callous from years of being degraded and tramuatized, the child retreats within because it's the only safehouse, in this state the child remains omnipotent, psychopaths aren't outgoing, that's a myth, when you see a psychopath being outgoing and friendly there is an agenda.
ReplyDeletePsychopaths on here tend to paint a great picture of themselves, but it takes another person to spot their weaknesses, the ego blinds them to their weaknesses, a psychopath doesn't know how to act when they meet a real man with love and respect for another human, because they will always be a boy.
ReplyDelete@Haven. How could it not be dissociation? When you harm another or lie or steal and your mind confronts you about it, you twist and dissociate from the truth to get by, i see it in these patients all the time, rationalization is a form of dissociation.
ReplyDelete"a psychopath doesn't know how to act when they meet a real man with love and respect for another human, because they will always be a boy."
ReplyDeletewell said.
"why are some serial murderers social recluses in their teen years?"
not necessarily to do with anxiety.
@Anon stress is stress. Think about it like this. When I have to keep my brain going at max capacity for a long period of time it builds up stress. It is the equivalent of over clocking a cpu. The fucker heats up. You have to let it cool down. You just don't feel the fact that your cpu has heated up to the point that it has started to melt.
ReplyDeleteI have a question though. ME mentioned it in passing and it makes me wonder if everyone else has this. I have a lowered pain sensation. Also a lower pleasure sensation. It isn't tactile or pressure related. I feel those just fine. Here is an example. I've had my feet run over by cars multiple times. One time I was even talking to my mother while she was literally parked on my foot. I could feel the pressure and even the tread in the tire press down on my foot. I finished the convo with her then told her to hurry up and move the car was on my foot. It didn't hurt at least to the point where I would care. I was even bare footed on concrete. Even stubbing my toe is just a flash of pain then nothing. Is this what it is like for the rest of you? I've always thought it was just I had low sensation.
cluster b's are the destroyers of the world.
ReplyDeleteI will break every bone in your body and then pull your guts out of your asshole. then i will rip your cock off cut it into little pieces stuff your guts with them and shove your guts down your throat. then i will rip your eyeballs out and shove them in your anus so you can then watch me kicking the shit out of you. do you think that will be painful?
ReplyDeleteI'll always be a boy? But... I've NEVER been a boy...
ReplyDeleteI feel anxiety from time to time, but I always keep a level head in the worst situations.
ReplyDeleteI very rarely get excited, and it's been like that as long as i can remember, it probably has to do with my doom and gloom outlook on life. Lots of people call me an emotional drainer, they learnt to keep their sentiments to themselves when they are around me because I ridicule them for it. Even when i get shown a tattoo that symbolises a persons "Journey" or some other silly symbol, i can't help but laugh to myself, these are all sentiments.
shut up tn.
ReplyDelete@Anon 12:32... How could it not be dissociation? How could /what/ not be dissociation? I'm confused. I'm pretty for the dissociative argument here.
ReplyDeleteRationalization isn't necessarily dissociative though. People rationalize all sorts of things but it's not necessarily a break from {their} reality. Maybe in some cases, but not in all.
Can we change the name anonymous to idiot? Figured if they were going to act like it they might as well wear the name to match.
ReplyDeleteI want to know if any of the others who consider themselves sociopaths/narcissists are sentimental, are you?
ReplyDeleteI think it runs against the grain of sociopathy to have sentimentality.
Stop falling for the trolls, Kesu. There looking for a reaction of any kind and you're playing right into their hands.
ReplyDelete^You sir get a prize. Now make a name so you don't have to wear the idiot title. I realize what they want. This isn't my first time on the internet.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sentimental at all.
ReplyDeleteI don't get wistful about the past.
@Adam. I'm not sentimental at all. Nothing has intrinsic value to me.
ReplyDeleteI am not sentimental either. I do find enjoyment in cultural rituals such as holidays, change of seasons, and birthdays, anniversaries which are a reasons to celebrate.
ReplyDeleteLife isn't always about examination, woundings or the fight.
Cultures and individuals heal trauma through their arts and rituals to bring about balance.
Soulfulpath said...
ReplyDeleteI am not sentimental either
boring. we need a story but those guys have fucked off somewhere.
ReplyDeleteI have a story. As I write my heart is breaking apart. As if it really is tearing inside out, literally physically hurting as I mourn over the loss of a pet in a very tragic way. It's been almost a year but I still hurt each time some emotional event takes place or some pressure increases. Just like that out of the blue my pain surfaces, and it hurts, hurts like hell.
ReplyDeleteHow about your story? Start with a naming ritual.
ReplyDeleteWhat more to the story?
ReplyDeleteNaming it? Broken heart of an uber empath?
I was addressing anon@ 5:17 about the naming.
ReplyDeleteBencuraw, your story sounds more like a bad romance novel.
here i am! i am back. great post by ME. i've experienced this:
ReplyDeleteThere is a disconnect between me, my conscious self, and the me that is talking and acting like me in the world. I feel like I have a very mild form of alien hand syndrome, but affecting my entire body and mind. The inner me has to some extent vacated the premises, leaving the rest to survive on evolutionary autopilot.
....interesting. i missed this place. :)
Welcome back, miss Zoe.
ReplyDeleteI think labeling this as dissociation is erroneous, in the medical sense, at least.
ReplyDeleteIf anything under the possible realms of dissociation, it could be psychological numbing when presented with intense loads of stress.
From what I've head dissociation described as before, and read up on, I would agree that the two have similarities, but I do not think they are the same. I've always been in control of my body in mind, but the feeling is more a sense of, everything's slightly out of focus, maybe slightly slower, just, Off Mark. I don't find it distressing, and I can usually get out of it rather fast when I realize it is happening. The first indication is me usually getting sick (stomach) as that's how my body usually handles intense amounts of stress.
Think of it like putting your hand on a stove top, except that instead of the nerves taking a really long time to let you know your hand is burning, you never get the sensation. You only realize it because your skin is melting off.
Regarding the post . . .
ReplyDelete
M.E. Just a thought. Have you tried Holosync type binaural sounds? Any brain training modality especially with the use of sound can have a positive impact. Clinic based neurofeedback is also effective. Talk therapy is worthless for balancing the brain and automatic behaviors. Lots on the market.
Rigorous meditation training with the right teacher can also make a positive impact on the brain.
M.E. maybe you are having a ego-death or existential crisis . . . you know all this deep questioning could have such an effect . . ."too much stress" could just be your stage name.
http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/1750-depersonalization-and-enlightenment/
Psychological numbing is an mild aspect classified under dissociation. Mentioned it up above.
ReplyDeleteWhich is what I said.
ReplyDeleteMedusa said...
ReplyDeleteWelcome back, miss Zoe.
hey Medusa!
i get wistful about the past
ReplyDeletehi zoe :)
ReplyDeleteM.E., this fits what you've written over the past days. Seems you must've had a stressful time lately. That can happen, I guess.
ReplyDeleteWhen I went to prison at 18 and was isolated for months (none of my own doing, just the way they did things back then in my state), during which same period I was interrogated and assessed (was then that I received my first psychopathy diagnosis, heh), and afterwards I was let into the company of prisoners much older than myself which put a lot of demand on me after months in isolation.
I guess one can say thats stressful.
For whichever reason I do not experience such which you describe here.
Seems I'm just always just ... Me.
But then there's the "not knowing when to stop". To this day I once in while do this which you describe, especially if I've had a period with lousy eating and lousy foods. - Then, if I get into the company of someone who can provide some really nice foods I may eat to the point where I literally begin to feel ill and not even that always makes me stop, because 'feeling ill' apparently doesn't make me feel so ill as it does most people.
Thankfully it doesn't come to the point where I throw up anymore. I've learned to notice the signs when I've had so much that continuing will lead me to the bathroom.
But throughout my childhood and teens I did it a lot. - I had this knack for finding groups of people who would take me in as kind of a 'prodigal son'. Often they were ethnic and/or religious groups, and I love all new and different foods. But sometimes the company of these people could be rather uninspiring especially during meals, so I would focus on the food and eat until I had to leave for the bathroom.
It's a funny notice you mentioning this 'syndrome'... Maybe we should call it "pathological overeating"? It goes with the pathological theme that seems to permeate most everything we do in life, hehe.
What do you think? :)
Ana Gold:
"How about talking about the fact that you are a girl ME?"
You state it as fact. No 'I think'?
Okay, so why is it of importance whether M.E. is a woman or a man?
I'm asking because you've said this before over the last couple of days. Are you not merely projecting a disregard for women yourself?
And I'm not stating fact, just asking.
aspie said...
ReplyDeletehi zoe :)
aspieeeeeee! we will recreate the past!
as soon as i get through the work, studying and general paperwork craziness, and have a life again. :(
Please, can you PM me and tell me number of much more thinks about this, I am truly fan of one’s webpage…gets solved properly asap.
ReplyDeleteonline pharmacy
From what I've go dissociation described as before, and study up on, I would believe the fact that the two have resemblances, but I do not think they are the same. I've always been in management of my whole body in thoughts, but the sensation is more a sensation of, everything's a little bit out of concentrate, maybe a little bit more slowly, just, Off Indicate. I don't discover it upsetting, and I can usually get out of it rather quick when I recognize it is occurring. The first sign is me usually getting fed up (stomach) as that's how my whole body usually manages extreme quantities of pressure.
ReplyDeleteSpybubble