I am intrigued by your honesty on your almost autobiographical perspective on sociopathy. You have quite an insightful blog that is helping me gain some different perspectives. I don't think all sociopaths are bad people, just as I don't believe all empaths are good people.
Recently, I married a woman I knew for a relatively short amount of time (4 months and we've been married since May) out of impulse and I have come to the realization that she may be a Borderline. When it's good, it's great...but when it's bad, it's horrid. When we fight, I become just as bad as her, trying to one-up her or try to control her, as she tries with me. I have never had these sort of power struggles with anyone. But my emotions have been on a roller coaster ride for the past nine months . Never have I experienced such exhilarating pleasure and turmoil at the same time with one person.
I recently joined an online "BPD" support forum for Non's and have come to fine many "veteran Non's" who ended up with BPD's (often bitter) express a common opinion and that is that the BPD label is actually a farce, namely created by "recovered borderlines" and those with empathy towards females afflicted with sociopathy.
In my personal opinion about the Cluster B's...From what I've gathered thus far, I am starting to believe that BPD is in actuality a form sociopathy and Histrionics may just be an offshoot of Narcissism. Modern psychology likes to compartmentalize everything into "disorders" as to easier "label" an individual. I agree with doing away with such compartmental labels and placing diagnoses into degrees on a spectrum, such as high functioning, low functioning and everything in between.
I consider myself to be a low-level sociopath (anti-Narcisssistic). I do have some of the tendencies (I often switch between apathy and empathy...and certain things I cannot feel, but I consider myself to be an empath for the most part). But my philosophy that if you mess with me, I will go out of my way to make your life hell, reinforces my belief of my tendencies.
Thus, I would like your opinion on BPD? Do you think it's a solid label or is it a variant of sociopathy? Thus I think my wife has "BPD"...Sociopathy. But she intrigues me and although we have highs and lows, the relationship is nothing close to boring. I love her and would like to make this work. I just want to know something, am I merely an object to her, a possession? Or do you feel sociopaths are capable of love in their own way? There are many good qualities with the bad...or is that just part of an act?
It's easier for bitter lovers to vilify their exes, and with the pre-existing thoughts that BPD may be an off-shoot of ASPD, it's an easy step to take. I mean, after all, if they're psychopaths instead of just emotional nutters, you can write them off with a clear conscience.
My BPD ex definitely was not a sociopath, and none of the ones I have talked to were either.
Co-morbidity does exist though, where someone can have both BPD and ASPD. That doesn't mean most who have BPD do. I'd wager most don't.
I'm wondering what the next generation of unhinged despots will be like. Gaddafi and Kim were hilarious in how they acted and lived.
I remember when Gaddafi decided to set up tents and camp in Donald Trump's backyard during a UN meet in the states. Just one of those moments too weird and hilarious to forget.
you'd think these fucking idiots burning themselves alive, would just take out the leader of the oppression. that's the only way you'll see change. he'll be executed, but you got your point across. if i was going to kill myself, i'd torture the crap out of my enemies first.
Oh Geezus. This guy came over from Lovecraft. She featured an article trying to convince people that BPD was essentially a form of temporary sociopathy. Fail.
You recently joined a forum created by jilted lovers and pissed of empaths. Congrats. These are not going to be the kind of people with an objective look at BPD. The DSM doesn't actually allow random people to choose labels, recovered or not.
Females afflicted with sociopathy are still *gasp*, sociopaths. ASPD and BPD are not the same thing. BPD and ASPD, like many of the personality disorders, can share some cross over. However there are plenty of nuerotypical empaths that share some cross over with the personality disordered.
Borderlines are very capable of love. It doesn’t present in the same way as your standard NT though. Love for a Borderline is complicated and frightening. You, are actually the threat to her. She is going to fight a battle of trying to hold on to her own identity while protecting her sense of self, which will cause her to push away from you. However she craves nothing more than to be loved and cared for, so the thought of losing you will be equally as frightening, causing her to pull back to you.
Relationships with a Borderline are many things, but from what I can tell, are nothing like those you would have with a Sociopath.
Sociopaths are incapable of love. AMIRITE? I believe sociopaths base their relationships on superficial means, sex, money, or a place to live. That would fit in with the whole lack of empathy thing.
I'm not a sociopath so I can't say if or how they love. If you try to take an objective look at love though, it all comes down to chemistry and the chemicals that your brain and body produce. These things happen in sociopaths as well as empaths. I don't think you need empathy to love. What results may be selfish, but it doesn't mean it isn't real.It may also not be what you want, or felt in a way you can understand. It's just different.
Love.... more of a strong desire to hold onto something that I really want/like.. in my life. My family often tell me they love me. I know my reply "Love you too" are just words. I dont have any feeling in relation to that word. But as I understand it/myself, and from how it's been explained to me.. it's like a strong sense of reassurance.
"The closest analog to a sociopath's love is probably the love of a child: intense, accepting, selfish. And finally, like a child, the sociopath will be extremely loyal."
"Love may be blind for empaths, but a sociopath sees your faults clearly and loves you still."
@Anon ... For as opinionated as I am, I don't feel like I can give you an honest one here. My opinions are based of my experience, my research, and my knowledge. Not being a sociopath, I can't really say. I do think they can love, but it's probably more chemical than emotional.
I have an odd sympathy though because I know how unfairly misjudged and stigmatized my PD can be, so I have a tendency to give some benefit towards where most would only have doubt. All people are different. All sociopaths are not the same. All empaths are not the same. I've known some empaths that I don't think are capable of loving anyone. So I don't see why a sociopath can't love someone... even if it's simply in their own way.
I know, but they share the same features. ALL sociopaths are grandiose, callous and manipulative. Otherwise they wouldn't be a sociopath, would they? You can't compare an empath with a person with a pd. Don't be silly.
Just as ALL borderlines are emotionally unstable, fearful of abandonment etc If you didn't have those symptoms, then you'd have borderline TRAITS, or a borderline style, not a personality disorder. A pd is on the extreme end.
Cognitively, it's perfectly rational to be able to understand someone without empathizing with them. To relate to them you may need it, but without empathy you may be able to have a perspective that is even more objective than theirs and will therefore give you a more accurate picture of what they are going through and experiencing.
I didn't say empathy wasn't linked to love. 9 times out of 10 it probably is. You do not need empathy to have an intense appreciation for someone, to desire them.
Actually, sociopaths have a total disregard for other peoples perspectives, because a sociopath always believes they are right. You could call that an inability to understand other perspectives.
Mr. Right... I'm not sure you are understanding what my point is.
Most people have an idea of what love is. It's often the same fairy tale romance over and over.
What I'm saying is, someone that didn't grow up with any knowledge of the fairy tale (I'm using this as a metaphor now), could still form their own attachments to someone. It's going to present differently though and will look foreign to someone that does not experience the world in the same way. That doesn't mean the attachment isn't real.
Just because you don't understand something. Just because you aren't capable of experiencing something in the same way, does not mean that it doesn't exist.
I'm not saying one way is better, or worse, just different. Having never experienced something from a perspective other than the one you are accustomed to, does not mean another way isn't valid to that person.
Love is subjective.
It may not have value to you in this way, but it does to the person experiencing it.
For me to really understand anything in a usable way, I have to understand it with my heart. What that means in non -flowery language is that I must get behind the eyes of something. I am an extreme empath. I have been trying to get behind the eyes of a sociopath, Mal Narc and a BPD. I am not like a scientist looking at a bug, as if I do not have problems. I am an extreme codependent, would be the best way to say it. That, to me, is a PD, even if it is not called such. It skews my view on myself and life, so it is a PD as far as *I* am concerned. I am trying to understand the other PD's.
Today, I think I understood how Mal Narc's love. They own. They possess, as if they possessed a beautiful dress. They want the dress to look good on them. They want people to tell them how good the dress looks. If the dress gets a stain on it, they throw it on the closet floor and get a new dress. What happens if you are their child?
I understand your need to understand things with your heart. You are definitely an extreme empath. You need to walk a mile in another persons shoes. I actually have a lot of respect for this because most people never bother trying to understand another persons perspective.
I also do this, but I do it from a point of view that I do not trust my heart at all. I know very well that it can not be trusted, so I work to gather as much empirical evidence and experience as I can in order to mitigate the turbulent way I'm inclined to form conclusions.
Your description of a malignant narcs love is accurate. You only have has much value to a narc as what you can do for them, or for as good as you can make them look. If you're their child, you're going to .... have a lot of problems growing up.
@Haven Thank you for saying you understand. That means a lot to me. I have just started to accept myself. I do not learn, as other people do. I have started to respect that and break down information in a way that I can learn it.
@Mr Right When I am really hurting, badly, I wish I did not feel. However, the flip side is the joy of giving to others and seeing them light up and knowing that *I* was the one who did that.
I've been in love before. It was pretty intense. Why do I have to vicariously experience an emotion through someone else (empathy) to feel it? That's a chicken/egg paradox trick question, by the way.
Even though I was thoroughly in love with her, certain parts of me are missing, parts that are associated with a healthy loving relationship. I always put myself first, I never had compassion for her or any of her problems, and nothing I ever did to her caused me guilt or regret.
I think the problem is, that even when people hear these accounts, they don't click. They think that I have some choice in what I do and do not feel, or even know what I'm missing out on at some emotional level. Complete bullshit. For me to say I'm not a compassionate person who is selfish would be like acknowledging that you eat and drink and breathe. It's not part of your identity, it's just another part of you, like a finger or a toe.
So when I say I was in love, I think of what I felt, whereas you'll think about what parts of love I can't feel.
@TNP When the sex waned, as it always does due to familiarity, was it OVER, for you? Does the end of the high sexuality signal the end of "love"? Is love and sexuality the same, is the larger question?
when i'm attracted and want to be a relationship with a person, they are perfect at first. after i get bored, that's when i become abusive. it happens automatically. everything they do annoys me, suddenly their too fat, stupid, not good enough for me. i see every glaring flaw in them. when they are sick and need help, i make them feel worse. i've been called a monster countless times.
sometimes i feel it's just sex i want. i have no desire for companionship. i love my own company, but i'd like to have a person around that i could dominate and possibly demean. a man needs that ego massage.
"When the sex waned, as it always does due to familiarity, was it OVER, for you? Does the end of the high sexuality signal the end of "love"? Is love and sexuality the same, is the larger question? "
According to the women I know... you just discribed a majority of men. You don't have to have a PD to use women. A guy Ihave known for some time, used to date women weekly. The ones that lasted longer, sometimes more than a year.. was simply because the sex was good and the situation was good for him. Many people men and women do this often.
I'm sure after a short chat Caroline, we will come to an agreement. After all, Haven is open minded, and you will have another woman around for ... safety ;) not that I am an unsafe person to be around. Just that you might pass out at the side of my man meat.
The person who posted has a wife he describes as being histrionic and bpd. I think when I'm manic I get dramatic and histrionic. (I also am a little dramatic anyway, so I'm going to have to own that. It runs in my family *sigh* and when I catch myself doing it I want to vomit a bit. Whatever. -I can imagine people may have thought being with me was "exciting" when I was younger when I didn't edit so much.)
But it's just a fake charisma.
Sure when i'm truly hypomanic/manic there's grandiosity and histrionic behaviour and that..that's genuinely powerful. And destructive.
Couple that ^ with BPD sense of self problems, and you have a shit storm of crazy.
This guy just really enjoys drama, which says much more about him than it does about her.
I have a friend who had a gf who claims she is borderline/NARC. He calls her "The Devil" . She's a shrink. The things she did to him were disgusting. Yes, She treated him like an object. He had done research and he believes she is a sociopath.
A friend of a friends second cousin removed 3 times.
I am not nearly as interested in what people think they know, as much as how they came to think that they know it. People are wrong about what they think they know, all the time.
yes they are manipulative and unthinking about how their actions affect others, but oh jeeze no, BPDs are definitely not socios. they are overrun with emotions they can't handle, often have high anxiety, and their brain chemistry/physiology is different (e.g. oxytocin makes them less trusting).
People don't even stop to consider that our brains are physiologically different. Most people still harbor some kind of hope that PDs are a choice which makes it easier to judge them. If it's not a choice though, we may be a 'victim' of our genetics, and that takes away some of their self-righteous outrage.
Late at night in some extraordinary awkward way I somehow managed to shove down my sofa towards the ground head first, one cheek and my shoulders pressing against the ground while my feet were bangling in the air.
As my shoulders were pressing against the floor I could hardly move my arms so I was in that position with my feet bangling in the air for about a minute before I could let myself fully shove down the ground an get up. This must have been my funniest performance ever, I'm glad there wasn't any public.
Everyone is stupid as far as I am concerned. David...however, has displayed higher intelligence on several occasions, if you minus the couch incident. So that label Anon, doesn't apply to David.
Is that an American speaking? You broke my heart ... lol Be polite please, I wired money to a charity who provided goods to the soldiers at the front. (just to piss off my leftish European friends hehe)
I'm fabulous, I can 'shove' down the sofa, legs bangling or dangling in the air while staying cynical ...
socios are high in the insensitive area, borderlines are opposite. borderlines can actually feel empathy. they have too much compassion. the sociopath only has proto emotions, such as envy, frustration and rage. these disorders are the opposite. a socio would tear a borderline apart.
So what's your excuse for it being so low? You're a pill popping, deeply depressed, suicidal chronic drunk. You're so fragile that you can't even take not being treated special by total strangers. It doesn't sound like you feel so great about yourself. I read where you said that your life as a whore has fucked you up in the head. It's pretty clear that the only reason you delete comments is out of embarrassment and to erase contradictions. So you admit that you've been damaged psychologically by your horrible existence? Is that a result of being sexually mistreated or a result of being constantly looked down upon by everybody?
I enjoy it how you go to great lenghts to maximize the amount of insults in one sentence, in a hopeless effort to insult me. I especially find the 'horrible existence' part quite amusing.
Does it ease your mental suffering a bit when you spew all those insults towards me you wanted but didn't dare to say to your daddy when he used you as a punching bag?
The post seems like yet another confused retard trying to jump to conclusions about everything. Its funny when people make their own diagnosis.
Is that your new favorite word david, petit bourgeois? Last I checked that was the class you belonged to. Did you join the communist party or something? Last I also checked the bourgeoisie was not the ones discriminating against homosexuals anyway, its the proles. As far as prostitution is concerned I'm pretty sure people universally think you are pawn scum.
I watched a special on north korea from some reporter that got in with this eye doctor curinf cataracts. The people in that country are completely brainwashed. They are hilarious to watch though. Everytime one of their eyes were cured they would run up to kims picture and start praising it. Completely ignoring the doctor who just cured them of blindness.
I enjoy how you go to great lengths to avoid the fucking question. What bent your mind out of shape Dave? You're the one who admitted to hating your life and wanting to end it, so don't act as if I'm pulling shit out of nowhere. I didn't suffer mentally due to my father. I just felt outraged when he beat me and when I was strong enough I got even. Even before that he never stopped me from doing exactly what I wanted. Did you ever fight back against any of your abusers? No, you ran and hid or you just lay there and took it.
You keep using that as if you dug it out of me and I'm sensitive about it. I put that out there because I dont give a toss, david. I dont say things that I'm not ok with and delete them later like you.
Btw I don't give a fuck how people think about homosexuality. I'm totally apathetic towards clerics, conservatives ... spewing out homosexuals.
Simply because my sexuality is nothing more than a tool for me. Do I sound like I wanne get married, walk hand in hand or wave a rainbow flag in some gay parade?
Do you think I would work my ass off for a guy or woman just to get laid? You may want to reconsider the term 'sexslave' ... hehe
Why? It is already defined and you embody it. Your mind's so fucked up from all the perversions people have done from you that you think having sex with someone you want to have sex with is slavery. That's pretty hilarious.
"Bernardo was a fan of stories about serial killers, including Bret Easton Ellis's American Psycho. His assumed surname, "Teale," was apparently an homage to the fictional serial killer Martin Thiel played by Kevin Bacon in the film Criminal Law."
"Bernardo graduated in 1987 from the University of Toronto at Scarborough. He joined the Toronto office of PricewaterhouseCoopers that September. A few months later, he met Homolka, and they started dating. Homolka would later say that he began abusing her immediately, calling her his "sex slave." They each encouraged each other's violent behavior: Homolka said she would not deny him anything, and urged (or at least allowed) him to brutalize her and, eventually, other women. Bernardo, meanwhile, demanded from her total submission, which included helping him commit murder and rape. They married in 1990."
You spent years slaving for some dirty old man David. Performing degrading sexual favours for him, helping him in and out of the shower, up and down the stairs. All the while you were boiling with anger inside. But just like with the bullies at school and rude barmen and shop clerks you never had it in you to act. Sure you got some money out of it but the facts are that you're already broke again. He may of had to die alone and miserable but you have to live that way. And he spent I life time getting his sick thrills out of people like you. All it cost him was a few years living with with nothing after a life time of luxury. He probably went to the grave laughing about all the things he did to you while you've remained bitter and haunted. The most you can do nowdays is fantasise about what violent things you think you could do to people were you put in similar situations. I'm afraid you blew it. Just like you've blown it here yet again by allowing yourself to be victimised. Again.
I believe most people idolize/worship someone/something like the North-Koreans do. But since most people don't live in a society that actively encourages such behaviour, they might not fully develop or express it.
I don't have anyone that I've ever idolized like that. Not ever. There are people that I respect... but I've never had an answer to that, "Who's your greatest hero", question.
That's pretty shortsighted. "Energy cannot be destroyed so some part of me will always linger in the Universe." Why not the other way around?
Every particle that you're made of was already here thirteen-billion years ago, so why are you the first 'thing' to give some kind of spiritual meaning to them? I'd bet you a tenner that every atom in your body has already been used a quadrillion times in all sorts of different organism over the past four billion years. Didn't they have souls?
Why can't you see how amazing your and anyone's existence is without feeling the need to ascribe mystical properties to it? Why do there 'have' to be souls for you to appreciate the fact you are able to appreciate facts? Isn't it amazing enough already to think that for the shortest amount of time imaginable, a teeny tiny fraction of the Universe is able to abstractly describe the rest of the Universe, create it's own rules and be the first part of the Universe to look at things, to understand things, to question things.
Do you even get that? As far as we know, we're the first ever thinly crusted ball of molten silicium-oxides to ever produce something that's able to look at things. No-one's ever looked at the Universe and went: "I wonder why this is what it is" before we did.
You are the ultimate achievement of bits of self-replicating stardust fighting against each other for four billion years, and you aren't even able to appreciate that, because you think the entirety of everything is only that which you can see, and you've started inventing things you don't see.
I don't think I idolize Miyamoto... much. I wouldn't actually cry if he'd die. I'd probably participate in some kind of memorial service. Although I'd definitely get his autograph tattooed, were I given the chance (like Deadmau5... lucky son of a bitch...).
Joss Whedon is awesome. "I can kill you with my brain." is still one of my favourite lines ever said by anyone. :D
I just want a subject change. You can talk about Christmas myths, or witchcraft... whatever... just please stop talking about love, and relationship problems, for at least the rest of the night.
?, you may as well tell your story if you want any kind of answer. You're wondering if your friend, who you suspect is sociopathic, is actually your friend, right?
oh my god you fucking moron. Sociopaths are characterized by having no emotions. BPD is characterized by extremely strong emotions. These two have nothing in common with each other. they cant even be comorbid. you're retarded.
"I don't think all sociopaths are bad people"
ReplyDeletefail
Ass
DeleteAss
DeleteYou're obviously not a sociopath if your feelings have been hurt by that Heather.
DeleteIt's easier for bitter lovers to vilify their exes, and with the pre-existing thoughts that BPD may be an off-shoot of ASPD, it's an easy step to take. I mean, after all, if they're psychopaths instead of just emotional nutters, you can write them off with a clear conscience.
ReplyDeleteMy BPD ex definitely was not a sociopath, and none of the ones I have talked to were either.
Co-morbidity does exist though, where someone can have both BPD and ASPD. That doesn't mean most who have BPD do. I'd wager most don't.
Mind of a sociopath
ReplyDeleteu sick ass!
ReplyDeleteA great man has passed, Kim Jong Il. RIP Kim
ReplyDeleteI'm wondering what the next generation of unhinged despots will be like. Gaddafi and Kim were hilarious in how they acted and lived.
ReplyDeleteI remember when Gaddafi decided to set up tents and camp in Donald Trump's backyard during a UN meet in the states. Just one of those moments too weird and hilarious to forget.
Kim Jong il, master manipulator. To bad he was a fucking pussy.
ReplyDeletespeaking of pussys... you people need to get pictures. The blank spots on the side of the names are annoying lol.
ReplyDeleteyou'd think these fucking idiots burning themselves alive, would just take out the leader of the oppression. that's the only way you'll see change. he'll be executed, but you got your point across. if i was going to kill myself, i'd torture the crap out of my enemies first.
ReplyDeleteYeah, if you are going to off yourself, might as well make an attempt to take the guy out. Two birds one stone.
ReplyDeleteI would go to fucking Haven's house tape her to a wall and have my way with her.
ReplyDeleteIs Haven a looker ?
ReplyDeleteOh Geezus. This guy came over from Lovecraft. She featured an article trying to convince people that BPD was essentially a form of temporary sociopathy. Fail.
ReplyDeleteYou recently joined a forum created by jilted lovers and pissed of empaths. Congrats. These are not going to be the kind of people with an objective look at BPD. The DSM doesn't actually allow random people to choose labels, recovered or not.
Females afflicted with sociopathy are still *gasp*, sociopaths. ASPD and BPD are not the same thing. BPD and ASPD, like many of the personality disorders, can share some cross over. However there are plenty of nuerotypical empaths that share some cross over with the personality disordered.
Borderlines are very capable of love. It doesn’t present in the same way as your standard NT though. Love for a Borderline is complicated and frightening. You, are actually the threat to her. She is going to fight a battle of trying to hold on to her own identity while protecting her sense of self, which will cause her to push away from you. However she craves nothing more than to be loved and cared for, so the thought of losing you will be equally as frightening, causing her to pull back to you.
Relationships with a Borderline are many things, but from what I can tell, are nothing like those you would have with a Sociopath.
Agreed!
DeleteAgreed!
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@Haven
ReplyDeleteSociopaths are incapable of love. AMIRITE? I believe sociopaths base their relationships on superficial means, sex, money, or a place to live. That would fit in with the whole lack of empathy thing.
Lovefraud*
ReplyDeleteI've been reading too many horror stories lately.
Can Sociopaths love?
ReplyDeleteI'm not a sociopath so I can't say if or how they love. If you try to take an objective look at love though, it all comes down to chemistry and the chemicals that your brain and body produce. These things happen in sociopaths as well as empaths. I don't think you need empathy to love. What results may be selfish, but it doesn't mean it isn't real.It may also not be what you want, or felt in a way you can understand.
It's just different.
^ Good luck with that Anon.
ReplyDelete@The Chosen One... I"m told so rather often.
I was asking for your opinion, because I don't think M.E is a sociopath, but again, it's an opinion.
ReplyDelete@Haven...... rawr, likewise ;)
ReplyDeleteLove.... more of a strong desire to hold onto something that I really want/like.. in my life. My family often tell me they love me. I know my reply "Love you too" are just words. I dont have any feeling in relation to that word. But as I understand it/myself, and from how it's been explained to me.. it's like a strong sense of reassurance.
Of course empathy is linked with love. Empathy is the ability to understand someones perspective, and feel the person's pain.
ReplyDeleteHow can one possibly "love" someone they can't even understand, or relate to?
"The closest analog to a sociopath's love is probably the love of a child: intense, accepting, selfish. And finally, like a child, the sociopath will be extremely loyal."
ReplyDelete"Love may be blind for empaths, but a sociopath sees your faults clearly and loves you still."
Hmm..
@Anon ... For as opinionated as I am, I don't feel like I can give you an honest one here. My opinions are based of my experience, my research, and my knowledge. Not being a sociopath, I can't really say. I do think they can love, but it's probably more chemical than emotional.
ReplyDeleteI have an odd sympathy though because I know how unfairly misjudged and stigmatized my PD can be, so I have a tendency to give some benefit towards where most would only have doubt. All people are different. All sociopaths are not the same. All empaths are not the same. I've known some empaths that I don't think are capable of loving anyone. So I don't see why a sociopath can't love someone... even if it's simply in their own way.
"All sociopaths are not the same"
ReplyDeleteI know, but they share the same features. ALL sociopaths are grandiose, callous and manipulative. Otherwise they wouldn't be a sociopath, would they? You can't compare an empath with a person with a pd. Don't be silly.
Just as ALL borderlines are emotionally unstable, fearful of abandonment etc If you didn't have those symptoms, then you'd have borderline TRAITS, or a borderline style, not a personality disorder. A pd is on the extreme end.
Cognitively, it's perfectly rational to be able to understand someone without empathizing with them. To relate to them you may need it, but without empathy you may be able to have a perspective that is even more objective than theirs and will therefore give you a more accurate picture of what they are going through and experiencing.
ReplyDeleteI didn't say empathy wasn't linked to love. 9 times out of 10 it probably is. You do not need empathy to have an intense appreciation for someone, to desire them.
Actually, sociopaths have a total disregard for other peoples perspectives, because a sociopath always believes they are right. You could call that an inability to understand other perspectives.
ReplyDeleteMr. Right... I'm not sure you are understanding what my point is.
ReplyDeleteMost people have an idea of what love is. It's often the same fairy tale romance over and over.
What I'm saying is, someone that didn't grow up with any knowledge of the fairy tale (I'm using this as a metaphor now), could still form their own attachments to someone. It's going to present differently though and will look foreign to someone that does not experience the world in the same way. That doesn't mean the attachment isn't real.
Just because you don't understand something. Just because you aren't capable of experiencing something in the same way, does not mean that it doesn't exist.
I'm not saying one way is better, or worse, just different. Having never experienced something from a perspective other than the one you are accustomed to, does not mean another way isn't valid to that person.
Love is subjective.
It may not have value to you in this way, but it does to the person experiencing it.
Correction... socipaths regard other peoples perspectives all the time if it is of benefit to them. Manipulative, yes. But they do.
ReplyDelete"Mr. Right... I'm not sure you are understanding what my point is."
ReplyDeleteI have no desire to understand your point. However, I do want to get mine across.
Mr. Right... I find your lack of empathy amusing.
ReplyDeleteAnd now I'm bored.
*taps fingers on desk*
ReplyDeleteI'm learning so much about myself here today :)
For me to really understand anything in a usable way, I have to understand it with my heart. What that means in non -flowery language is that I must get behind the eyes of something. I am an extreme empath. I have been trying to get behind the eyes of a sociopath, Mal Narc and a BPD. I am not like a scientist looking at a bug, as if I do not have problems. I am an extreme codependent, would be the best way to say it. That, to me, is a PD, even if it is not called such. It skews my view on myself and life, so it is a PD as far as *I* am concerned. I am trying to understand the other PD's.
ReplyDeleteToday, I think I understood how Mal Narc's love. They own. They possess, as if they possessed a beautiful dress. They want the dress to look good on them. They want people to tell them how good the dress looks. If the dress gets a stain on it, they throw it on the closet floor and get a new dress. What happens if you are their child?
I throw dresses on the floor often. Fun fun!
ReplyDeleteCodependents are abusive. Coddling and spoiling is a form of abuse.
ReplyDelete@Caroline ...
ReplyDeleteDependent Personality Disorder
I understand your need to understand things with your heart. You are definitely an extreme empath. You need to walk a mile in another persons shoes. I actually have a lot of respect for this because most people never bother trying to understand another persons perspective.
I also do this, but I do it from a point of view that I do not trust my heart at all. I know very well that it can not be trusted, so I work to gather as much empirical evidence and experience as I can in order to mitigate the turbulent way I'm inclined to form conclusions.
Your description of a malignant narcs love is accurate. You only have has much value to a narc as what you can do for them, or for as good as you can make them look. If you're their child, you're going to .... have a lot of problems growing up.
@The Chosen One You do...................
ReplyDeleteWell, unless they aren't wearing a dress.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@Haven Thank you for saying you understand. That means a lot to me. I have just started to accept myself. I do not learn, as other people do. I have started to respect that and break down information in a way that I can learn it.
ReplyDeleteIt would be interesting to be empathic for a day. To take in someones perspective, without devaluing it as inferior to mine.
ReplyDelete@Mr Right When I am really hurting, badly, I wish I did not feel. However, the flip side is the joy of giving to others and seeing them light up and knowing that *I* was the one who did that.
ReplyDeleteI've been in love before. It was pretty intense. Why do I have to vicariously experience an emotion through someone else (empathy) to feel it? That's a chicken/egg paradox trick question, by the way.
ReplyDeleteEven though I was thoroughly in love with her, certain parts of me are missing, parts that are associated with a healthy loving relationship. I always put myself first, I never had compassion for her or any of her problems, and nothing I ever did to her caused me guilt or regret.
I think the problem is, that even when people hear these accounts, they don't click. They think that I have some choice in what I do and do not feel, or even know what I'm missing out on at some emotional level. Complete bullshit. For me to say I'm not a compassionate person who is selfish would be like acknowledging that you eat and drink and breathe. It's not part of your identity, it's just another part of you, like a finger or a toe.
So when I say I was in love, I think of what I felt, whereas you'll think about what parts of love I can't feel.
@TNP When the sex waned, as it always does due to familiarity, was it OVER, for you? Does the end of the high sexuality signal the end of "love"? Is love and sexuality the same, is the larger question?
ReplyDeletewhen i'm attracted and want to be a relationship with a person, they are perfect at first. after i get bored, that's when i become abusive. it happens automatically. everything they do annoys me, suddenly their too fat, stupid, not good enough for me. i see every glaring flaw in them. when they are sick and need help, i make them feel worse. i've been called a monster countless times.
ReplyDeletesometimes i feel it's just sex i want. i have no desire for companionship. i love my own company, but i'd like to have a person around that i could dominate and possibly demean. a man needs that ego massage.
"When the sex waned, as it always does due to familiarity, was it OVER, for you? Does the end of the high sexuality signal the end of "love"? Is love and sexuality the same, is the larger question? "
ReplyDeleteAccording to the women I know... you just discribed a majority of men. You don't have to have a PD to use women. A guy Ihave known for some time, used to date women weekly. The ones that lasted longer, sometimes more than a year.. was simply because the sex was good and the situation was good for him. Many people men and women do this often.
I'd never use a woman for sex!!!... never!!
@TCO LOL
ReplyDeleteSociopaths make a mockery of people, even in relationships. They will bleed you dry, in every sense.
ReplyDeleteA person with empathy will have a difficult time realizing how badly they are being used and abused, because they justify the behaviors.
I was used once by a woman. And I thought I was the one getting a booty call. Was confusing at first. =D
ReplyDeleteAll relationships use one another to a certain extent. Some motivations are simply more socially acceptable.
ReplyDeleteI wouldnt mind using you a little Haven ;)
ReplyDelete::laughs:: Careful. I might let you. And then you'd really be in for it, haha.
ReplyDelete@TCO You can use me, too.
ReplyDeleteMénage à trois !!!
ReplyDeleteSeasons greetings from Frank and Frankfurt.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Hare pg #113 Without Conscience. I am a "subcriminal" psychopath.
ReplyDeleteSigh.
Would you hot peices of arse... still have a Ménage à trois with me knowing... I'm just looking to fuck&chuck you ? or.... a few times ... for good mesure.
ReplyDelete@TCO Can you explain in easy to understand language what that means, please?
ReplyDelete@TCO Never
ReplyDeleteSomehow I suspsect this is not the real Caroline.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure after a short chat Caroline, we will come to an agreement. After all, Haven is open minded, and you will have another woman around for ... safety ;) not that I am an unsafe person to be around. Just that you might pass out at the side of my man meat.
ReplyDelete*Size*
ReplyDeleteBut they say.. it's not the size of the stick that does the trick... it's the throb of the knob that does the job !
@TCO For me, the actual anatomy, so to speak, is secondary. It is how he talks.
ReplyDeleteWine dine and sweet talk huh ? I'm sure you deserve it. Are you also a looker ?
ReplyDelete@TCO I am told I am, but I would probably not be right for you because I want the man to stay.
ReplyDeleteMy 2 cents:
ReplyDeleteHaven is right. BPD by itself is NOT sociopathy.
The person who posted has a wife he describes as being histrionic and bpd. I think when I'm manic I get dramatic and histrionic. (I also am a little dramatic anyway, so I'm going to have to own that. It runs in my family *sigh* and when I catch myself doing it I want to vomit a bit. Whatever. -I can imagine people may have thought being with me was "exciting" when I was younger when I didn't edit so much.)
But it's just a fake charisma.
Sure when i'm truly hypomanic/manic there's grandiosity and histrionic behaviour and that..that's genuinely powerful. And destructive.
Couple that ^ with BPD sense of self problems, and you have a shit storm of crazy.
This guy just really enjoys drama, which says much more about him than it does about her.
Enjoy the ride ya thrill-seeking socio! Woohoo!
AND
ReplyDeleteI have a friend who had a gf who claims she is borderline/NARC. He calls her "The Devil" . She's a shrink. The things she did to him were disgusting. Yes, She treated him like an object. He had done research and he believes she is a sociopath.
@Bella XXX
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteA friend of a friends second cousin removed 3 times.
ReplyDeleteI am not nearly as interested in what people think they know, as much as how they came to think that they know it. People are wrong about what they think they know, all the time.
yes they are manipulative and unthinking about how their actions affect others, but oh jeeze no, BPDs are definitely not socios.
ReplyDeletethey are overrun with emotions they can't handle, often have high anxiety, and their brain chemistry/physiology is different (e.g. oxytocin makes them less trusting).
Good description Res. My sister is like that, has BPD
ReplyDelete"My sister is like that, has BPD"
DeleteYou must have seen her struggles to keep her boyfriends. It's a tough disorder but you seem to be a caring brother.
Res! Where have you been man?
ReplyDeletePeople don't even stop to consider that our brains are physiologically different. Most people still harbor some kind of hope that PDs are a choice which makes it easier to judge them. If it's not a choice though, we may be a 'victim' of our genetics, and that takes away some of their self-righteous outrage.
....And a sexy mind too.. Haven ;)
ReplyDeleteIntellectual chicks are hawt.
I enjoyed my bacchus evening last night.
ReplyDeleteLate at night in some extraordinary awkward way I somehow managed to shove down my sofa towards the ground head first, one cheek and my shoulders pressing against the ground while my feet were bangling in the air.
As my shoulders were pressing against the floor I could hardly move my arms so I was in that position with my feet bangling in the air for about a minute before I could let myself fully shove down the ground an get up. This must have been my funniest performance ever, I'm glad there wasn't any public.
LOL David
ReplyDeleteWhat does... Shove down.. mean ? Must be local lingo I'm not familier with.
ReplyDeleteLike being in a slay and going down the hill. I'm not sure if shoving down is correct English?
ReplyDeleteAh, to slide down !
ReplyDeleteha, mental image was a good one!
Stupid foreigners
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOh dear yes, sliding ofcourse ...
ReplyDeleteEveryone is stupid as far as I am concerned. David...however, has displayed higher intelligence on several occasions, if you minus the couch incident. So that label Anon, doesn't apply to David.
ReplyDelete@TCO lol YEA David
ReplyDelete"Stupid foreigners"
ReplyDeleteIs that an American speaking? You broke my heart ... lol Be polite please, I wired money to a charity who provided goods to the soldiers at the front. (just to piss off my leftish European friends hehe)
I'm fabulous, I can 'shove' down the sofa, legs bangling or dangling in the air while staying cynical ...
You ARE fabulous David.
ReplyDelete"This must have been my funniest performance ever, I'm glad there wasn't any public."
ReplyDeleteI'm sure you've been stuck in more embarrassing positions than that Dave.
socios are high in the insensitive area, borderlines are opposite. borderlines can actually feel empathy. they have too much compassion. the sociopath only has proto emotions, such as envy, frustration and rage. these disorders are the opposite. a socio would tear a borderline apart.
ReplyDeletea borderline
a sociopath
"I'm sure you've been stuck in more embarrassing positions than that Dave."
ReplyDeleteNot with my sense of 'shame' ...
You mean not with your sense of self worth.
ReplyDeleteShe is a classic spath
ReplyDeleteMy self worth doesn't stand or fall according to petit bourgeois morals mis. I set my own standards.
ReplyDeleteHahaaa, crying Koreans. Also Steam doesn't seem to want me to buy anything. :/ Odd.
ReplyDeleteSo what's your excuse for it being so low? You're a pill popping, deeply depressed, suicidal chronic drunk. You're so fragile that you can't even take not being treated special by total strangers. It doesn't sound like you feel so great about yourself. I read where you said that your life as a whore has fucked you up in the head. It's pretty clear that the only reason you delete comments is out of embarrassment and to erase contradictions. So you admit that you've been damaged psychologically by your horrible existence? Is that a result of being sexually mistreated or a result of being constantly looked down upon by everybody?
ReplyDelete"Hahaaa, crying Koreans."
ReplyDeleteThey are hilarious.
spaths in suits!
ReplyDeleteI heard that the Korean people actually believed that Kim could control the weather.
ReplyDeleteMost of them are faking it.
ReplyDeleteWhat makes you so much better than David, Mis?
ReplyDeleteBill O Reilly is my idol.
ReplyDelete"What makes you so much better than David, Mis?"
ReplyDeleteI'm not a depressed, delusional, spineless, suicidal, sex slave.
I enjoy it how you go to great lenghts to maximize the amount of insults in one sentence, in a hopeless effort to insult me. I especially find the 'horrible existence' part quite amusing.
ReplyDeleteDoes it ease your mental suffering a bit when you spew all those insults towards me you wanted but didn't dare to say to your daddy when he used you as a punching bag?
The post seems like yet another confused retard trying to jump to conclusions about everything. Its funny when people make their own diagnosis.
ReplyDeleteIs that your new favorite word david, petit bourgeois? Last I checked that was the class you belonged to. Did you join the communist party or something? Last I also checked the bourgeoisie was not the ones discriminating against homosexuals anyway, its the proles. As far as prostitution is concerned I'm pretty sure people universally think you are pawn scum.
Hi ukan, have you found new ways yet to tickle your prostate instead of putting knifes up your arse?
ReplyDeleteI watched a special on north korea from some reporter that got in with this eye doctor curinf cataracts. The people in that country are completely brainwashed. They are hilarious to watch though. Everytime one of their eyes were cured they would run up to kims picture and start praising it. Completely ignoring the doctor who just cured them of blindness.
ReplyDeleteI enjoy how you go to great lengths to avoid the fucking question. What bent your mind out of shape Dave? You're the one who admitted to hating your life and wanting to end it, so don't act as if I'm pulling shit out of nowhere. I didn't suffer mentally due to my father. I just felt outraged when he beat me and when I was strong enough I got even. Even before that he never stopped me from doing exactly what I wanted. Did you ever fight back against any of your abusers? No, you ran and hid or you just lay there and took it.
ReplyDeleteYou keep using that as if you dug it out of me and I'm sensitive about it. I put that out there because I dont give a toss, david. I dont say things that I'm not ok with and delete them later like you.
ReplyDeleteAll the niggs here would do the same, if Obama died.
ReplyDeleteTheme Song for Mr Right
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjNLCbIMzZs
@The Chosen One Did you see your theme song?
ReplyDeleteBtw I don't give a fuck how people think about homosexuality. I'm totally apathetic towards clerics, conservatives ... spewing out homosexuals.
ReplyDeleteSimply because my sexuality is nothing more than a tool for me. Do I sound like I wanne get married, walk hand in hand or wave a rainbow flag in some gay parade?
Do you think I would work my ass off for a guy or woman just to get laid? You may want to reconsider the term 'sexslave' ... hehe
" I didn't suffer mentally due to my father. I just felt outraged when he beat me ...'
ReplyDeleteTalking contradiction ...
Keep on wishing that I get abused mis, in the meanwhile I'll have myself a pedicure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OoLLqYBdVQ
ReplyDeleteBonne nuit
ReplyDeleteDavid
ReplyDeleteYou would be fun to hang out with. We could go for a massage and then to the hotel for some wine no homo
ReplyDeleteYou may want to reconsider the term 'sexslave'
Why? It is already defined and you embody it. Your mind's so fucked up from all the perversions people have done from you that you think having sex with someone you want to have sex with is slavery. That's pretty hilarious.
"Bernardo was a fan of stories about serial killers, including Bret Easton Ellis's American Psycho. His assumed surname, "Teale," was apparently an homage to the fictional serial killer Martin Thiel played by Kevin Bacon in the film Criminal Law."
ReplyDelete"Bernardo graduated in 1987 from the University of Toronto at Scarborough. He joined the Toronto office of PricewaterhouseCoopers that September. A few months later, he met Homolka, and they started dating. Homolka would later say that he began abusing her immediately, calling her his "sex slave." They each encouraged each other's violent behavior: Homolka said she would not deny him anything, and urged (or at least allowed) him to brutalize her and, eventually, other women. Bernardo, meanwhile, demanded from her total submission, which included helping him commit murder and rape. They married in 1990."
You spent years slaving for some dirty old man David. Performing degrading sexual favours for him, helping him in and out of the shower, up and down the stairs. All the while you were boiling with anger inside. But just like with the bullies at school and rude barmen and shop clerks you never had it in you to act. Sure you got some money out of it but the facts are that you're already broke again. He may of had to die alone and miserable but you have to live that way. And he spent I life time getting his sick thrills out of people like you. All it cost him was a few years living with with nothing after a life time of luxury. He probably went to the grave laughing about all the things he did to you while you've remained bitter and haunted. The most you can do nowdays is fantasise about what violent things you think you could do to people were you put in similar situations. I'm afraid you blew it. Just like you've blown it here yet again by allowing yourself to be victimised. Again.
ReplyDeleteMis, you manage to come out of hiding to kick David. I guess that is your sport.
ReplyDeleteI believe most people idolize/worship someone/something like the North-Koreans do. But since most people don't live in a society that actively encourages such behaviour, they might not fully develop or express it.
ReplyDeleteI'd probably react the same way if Shiggy died...
Shiggy?
ReplyDeleteNorth American's
ReplyDeleteThis blog has greatly improved with some interesting new people TCO, vm and others.
ReplyDelete*puts on nerd glasses*
ReplyDeleteShigeru Miyamoto. :D
I don't have anyone that I've ever idolized like that. Not ever. There are people that I respect... but I've never had an answer to that, "Who's your greatest hero", question.
ReplyDelete....... except maybe Joss Whedon ;)
ReplyDeleteI admire arrogance.
ReplyDeleteTime for a stiff drink
ReplyDeleteAlso, @Caroline's soul-theory:
ReplyDeleteThat's pretty shortsighted. "Energy cannot be destroyed so some part of me will always linger in the Universe." Why not the other way around?
Every particle that you're made of was already here thirteen-billion years ago, so why are you the first 'thing' to give some kind of spiritual meaning to them? I'd bet you a tenner that every atom in your body has already been used a quadrillion times in all sorts of different organism over the past four billion years. Didn't they have souls?
Why can't you see how amazing your and anyone's existence is without feeling the need to ascribe mystical properties to it? Why do there 'have' to be souls for you to appreciate the fact you are able to appreciate facts? Isn't it amazing enough already to think that for the shortest amount of time imaginable, a teeny tiny fraction of the Universe is able to abstractly describe the rest of the Universe, create it's own rules and be the first part of the Universe to look at things, to understand things, to question things.
Do you even get that? As far as we know, we're the first ever thinly crusted ball of molten silicium-oxides to ever produce something that's able to look at things. No-one's ever looked at the Universe and went: "I wonder why this is what it is" before we did.
You are the ultimate achievement of bits of self-replicating stardust fighting against each other for four billion years, and you aren't even able to appreciate that, because you think the entirety of everything is only that which you can see, and you've started inventing things you don't see.
I don't think I idolize Miyamoto... much. I wouldn't actually cry if he'd die. I'd probably participate in some kind of memorial service. Although I'd definitely get his autograph tattooed, were I given the chance (like Deadmau5... lucky son of a bitch...).
ReplyDeleteJoss Whedon is awesome. "I can kill you with my brain." is still one of my favourite lines ever said by anyone. :D
Anyone ever had a relationship with a Mal Narc/ Narc, where they tear you down so badly and then wonder WHY you are torn?
ReplyDeleteGo fuck yourself Caroline.
ReplyDeleteLOL Don't think that is possible, anatomically speaking
ReplyDeleteI've had that relationship Caroline. It's not pretty.
ReplyDeleteMissus Kanney = Karla Homolka
ReplyDeleteIs it possible for us to end the relationship talk, for a day or two? I feel like I'm reading Cosmo for psychos...
ReplyDeleteHeh. I have no intention of talking about that ex. Not here.
ReplyDelete@Eden What is on your mind? :)
ReplyDeleteI just want a subject change. You can talk about Christmas myths, or witchcraft... whatever... just please stop talking about love, and relationship problems, for at least the rest of the night.
ReplyDeleteLOL OK
ReplyDeletedid you believe in santa?
ReplyDeleteI wonder who is the oldest person who still believes in Santa?
ReplyDeleteSteven Spielberg. How old is he?
ReplyDeleteepic songs are epic
ReplyDelete@Eden you are a gorgeous creature
ReplyDeleteNew Batman trailer.
ReplyDeleteBatman
Why do you say that?
ReplyDelete@Eden i never thought otherwise
ReplyDeleteAnd you are? I'm very buzzed right now... and knee deep in Fright Night. How am I a creature?
ReplyDeleteI'm watching Duran Duran videos and fantasizing.
ReplyDeleteCreature. :)
ReplyDeleteDaniel---love that intellectual veneer with animal magnetism you know would ravage you *sigh*
ReplyDeleteThe Chosen One yum
Vm has it going on
How can you fantasize to Duran Duran?
ReplyDeletenostalgically
ReplyDeleteIf you're havin' girl problems i feel bad for you son
ReplyDeleteI got 99 problems but a bitch ain't one
To people who think/have been told that they are Sociopaths:
ReplyDeleteDo you have friends?
If so, are they "real" friends, who you really like to be around and listen to? Or are they there to just keep you company and from getting bored?
Thanks.
sure I got friends. they usually fuck ups and self loathers. they entertain me, sure. but i would dump 'em in a new york minute.
ReplyDelete?, you may as well tell your story if you want any kind of answer. You're wondering if your friend, who you suspect is sociopathic, is actually your friend, right?
ReplyDeleteOr email ME.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd91A3Qcfkw
ReplyDeleteoh god depressed people are so boring
ReplyDeleteoh my god you fucking moron. Sociopaths are characterized by having no emotions. BPD is characterized by extremely strong emotions. These two have nothing in common with each other. they cant even be comorbid. you're retarded.
ReplyDelete