I studied economics for a time. I was introduced to behavioral economics and how the heuristics that help us deal with day to day problems can also frequently lead us astray. I had understood for a long time that people often self-deceived, but even I was surprised by the depth and breadth of the way we misperceive the world (me included). I learned the lessons of decisionmaking and rationality and tried to become more rational myself. I have since noticed that many of my friends who did fine understanding the concepts but lacked the humility or insight to see an application in their own lives.
My friend I mentioned earlier is a good example. He is so afraid of making a bad decision that he avoids making them until they are made for him. That or he waits until his fear and panic of making the decision cause him to take action, any action at all, but all in a fog of willful ignorance -- pretending that certain facts don't exist or (intentionally?) misrepresenting probabilistic outcomes in his mind. All of this is done in an attempt to shield himself from self-hatred or acknowledging certain basic truths about the world that he would rather ignore. I see this sort of ex post self-justification happen in the comments section of this blog from people who are doomed to repeat past mistakes because they refuse a sense of responsibility about their own destiny.
It's a good example of seeing what you want to see and the harm that can come from it. I actually advise people to not even form a belief if they can -- the temptation to anchor their future assessments or see all new information through the distorted lens of whether or not it confirms that belief is just simply too high.
Even if people get the probability correctly, they often don't understand what that means. It's one thing to say there's a 1% of getting caught stealing a mobile phone, but many people have trouble understanding that means if you steal 100 phones you will statistically get caught once. Instead they act as if anything less than 5% means never going to happen no matter how repeatedly they engage in it. Which is why I liked this recent article in the NY Times about understanding low probability risks. It's worth reading in its entirety, here's a teaser story:
I first became aware of the New Guineans’ attitude toward risk on a trip into a forest when I proposed pitching our tents under a tall and beautiful tree. To my surprise, my New Guinea friends absolutely refused. They explained that the tree was dead and might fall on us.
Yes, I had to agree, it was indeed dead. But I objected that it was so solid that it would be standing for many years. The New Guineans were unswayed, opting instead to sleep in the open without a tent.
I thought that their fears were greatly exaggerated, verging on paranoia. In the following years, though, I came to realize that every night that I camped in a New Guinea forest, I heard a tree falling. And when I did a frequency/risk calculation, I understood their point of view.
Consider: If you’re a New Guinean living in the forest, and if you adopt the bad habit of sleeping under dead trees whose odds of falling on you that particular night are only 1 in 1,000, you’ll be dead within a few years. In fact, my wife was nearly killed by a falling tree last year, and I’ve survived numerous nearly fatal situations in New Guinea.
1st and fucking up this blog by getting the iq's down
ReplyDeleteand damn proud of it2
Deleteps come and get some
Deleteand i'm all out of bubblegum
Deletetoday in the news
Deletedangerous crimal gets out faster by seducing a woman who ran his prison'2nd in command)
got to love a good manipulation
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I like this idea.
ReplyDeleteTEEHEE CREEMENALS LIEK UKAN ARE SEXEE TEEHEE
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me thinks ME is trying to bore us to death
ReplyDeletedevious, i like it
Deletewas this too challenging, anon? perhaps a simpler blog would suit you better...
Deleteher's a question to UKAN
ReplyDeletelets see how smart and devious you can be
the question is this
if i cannot feel love am i not worthy of giving it?
am i not worthy of receiving love?
forget worthy, if you cannot feel love, how are you capable of giving or receiving it? (honest question)
Deletepsychopathy is victory chased by defeat
ReplyDeleteso make sure you develop a taste for 2 things: blood and strong liquor
Deleteand jail?
ReplyDeleteFuck jail
Deleteonly if you drop the soap
ReplyDeletei just watched a great movie
ReplyDelete"the perfect host" 2010
New Theme Series
ReplyDeleteTheme for M.E
Delete:) Good morning Sociopathworld!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteGood morning Rich, how are you doin'?
ReplyDeleteIam okay Mymind, thank you for asking!
DeleteHow are you doing?
Iam starting to think Iam ALOT more emotionally shallow (in some aspects) than I believe myself to be, and in other aspects my emotions are very strong which makes it evermore confusing to me to sort them out.........
you'd have to be completely off drugs to be sure wouldn't you?
Deletealso, maybe it's your environment, not you?
I find it condescending, fake and valueless when a therapist responds to what I say with some contrived display of empathy. What is the use of that? Tell me what you really think or don't bother, is my philosophy.
ReplyDeleteI'd say that the therapist is bad. I think it's the same situation, as if you interact with someone else that is a S and you don#t know it. You just do the same thing with him as with all the others, the difference is that he will notice it and interpret it.
DeleteBut to your question: through the fact that you saw through it, it missed its goal. in your circumstance its even worse, it was counterproductive. But for anyone else it may be helpfull, because they take it for real, so it has a use. Although a therapist who does/needs to do such things should search for another job.
Good morning Monica
just fake it like a good litle sociopath you aspie robot
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ReplyDeleteMONEECA, YUU ARE GOEENG TO HAVE MAH CHEELDREN TEEHEE
DeleteUKAN HAD HEES TURN, SO WILL YUU TEEHEE
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Good Morning Rich!
ReplyDeleteGood Morning MyMind!
Ellicit
Are you, already, feeling that from this woman?
Yes, after two sessions.
DeleteA person who will tell it like it is is a needle in a haystack. First of all, most people are not honest with themselves. That is really the main reason imo
DeleteThen, the therapist does not want to lose the person, so there is a financial incentive not to make the person angry, which honesty can do, and to keep the person's problems strung out, so they get more money.
Yeah, it's definitely shooting yourself in the foot if your income depends on keeping people coming back.
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Hey Monica!!!!
DeleteIam still going over my "shallow" emotions and trying to compare them to other emotions, its weird because in some aspects, I dont feel a difference, which means Iam very emotionally shallow, but to me, in my life, I dont feel emotionally shallow, its almost like I feel TOO MUCH.... Iam just confused I guess :(
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ReplyDeleteI don't know. I guess she's trying to engage with me on an emotional level that may well work or be appreciated by a more normal person.
Deletethats what i meant.
DeleteI think every person has a BS detector. Think about music. For someone to get famous, it must speak to the heart. If a therapist can't touch her own heart and allow others to let their hearts open up, she is worthless and more dangerous because she will make the person worse imo
DeleteYeah, I think that's what it is - the BS factor and that it's not a genuine response. If her genuine response is not knowing what to say then remain silent or say you don't know how to respond. Some fake-ass attempt at emotional connection just achieves the opposite.
Delete@Ellicit
DeleteI wonder why you are going to a therapist.
I am addressing the causes of my personality disorder.
Deleteah k, the usual reason. but why are the causes important to you?
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DeleteThe causes aren't important to me. Fixing the disorder is important to me.
Deleteis it even possible to really "fix" a disorder? btw. what is yours?
DeleteDo you always ask so many questions without any preamble of self-disclosure on your part?
Deletenot always. but you're right, quid pro quo.
Deletemy reason, to go to the therapist, was a crisis of identity, but she kind of refused to help me.
what my disorder is? i don't really know
Ellicit, you should throw your stuff on SW. You would get the best therapy ever ~
Deletewhat my disorder is? i don't really know
DeleteI don't believe you. You're giving advice on therapy and you're here posting on a blog for sociopathy, and you're trying to tell me you have no idea what might be wrong with your head?
Monica, this is the last place on the internet anyone should throw their stuff on.
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DeleteYou deleted that before I had a chance to see it.
DeleteEllicit, are you going to give this person more of a chance. In my experience, it never gets better when you have this first reaction, early on.
DeleteMaybe I'm being too aggressive. Lord knows, I can be aggressive. I'm trying to encourage them a bit, but you're right. I'll lay off.
Delete@ monica
Deleteyou're kinda right, swarm intelligence.
@Ellicit
Oh sry, i think there's a misunderstanding based on my formulation.
I know very exactly what's "wrong" with my head, but i simply don't KNOW how to categorize the overall outcome.
mmkay ...
DeleteI meant, the therapist, Ellicit.
DeleteLOL. Well, I don't know, Monica. I've been prodded by a lot of shrinks in the past and it never helped. I'm really trying this time, for the first time. I don't want to just grab onto the first excuse I find to ditch it because it really goes against the grain, as it is. I'm stoned, so maybe not making sense.
Delete@Monica
Deletethx for your support, but everything is alright.
@Ellicit
if you want me to go more into detail just ask.
LoL as you see i also thought that monica means me^^
DeleteYes, MyMind. Please, do go into more detail. You're keeping me on tenterhooks here.
Deleteis that irony?
DeleteNo, it isn't. Are you dragging this out deliberately just to tease me now?
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No i didn't. but in some ways I'm just stupid.
DeleteOne the one hand i would consider myself a shizoid, i fulfill 6 of 9 characteristic traits and you need 3 to be diagnosed as one. Also i think that the word "schizo"(lat. for "cleaved") would describe my mind condition the best. Although i don't have emotions, i am capeable of feeling very strong anxiety, but only in extreme situations.(i use anxiety instead of fear to avoid the paradoxon, although i think that it is fear)But i have to add that this anxiety never had effects on my reaction(time) or on my decision making.
On the other hand i don't have a conscience, which would place me in the sociopath category. Also i'm naturally manipulativ and enjoy quite a few forms of human interaction, even though i have to "charge my batteries" after i spend a maximum of 2 days nonstop with one or more persons. if i can't charge them at least a little bit by locking up somewhere for half an hour or so, i get very angry, or at least it seems like anger.
Additionally i'm very egocentric and always interested in personal gain.
Maybe you do understand now what i mean if i say i don't know how to categorize the overall outcome of my traits. Many of them are schizoid, but the same amount is sociopathic.
That is very interesting. Did you have severe childhood abuse?
DeleteDefine severe childhood abuse, pls.
DeleteI can't really. It has to be defined by the person <3
DeleteThere's been a few antisocial schizoids around here. There's a good thread in the forum about it that you might like. You'd need to use the advanced search feature for threads with schizoid in the title to find it.
DeleteIn my opinion it's possible that i suffered severe childhood abuse, because i can't remember my early childhood. Also my mother used to beat me for punishment (is birching the right word for it?), what didn't work because i don't react on punishment.
DeleteMy father is dumb, my mother is narcissistic and dumb, too, and both are pitifully. They never understood me, even in the most simple conversation.
@Ellicit
DeleteThat were just a few of my traits, trust me, if the anwser would be easy, i'd have already figured it out by myself, no offense.
Thank you for the advice, i'll read the topic.
I'll go to bed now, have a nice and successfull day!
Delete@Monica
I'd really like to read your opinion to that topic tomorrow. :)
Which topic, Sweetie? and Good night :)
DeleteMaybe how you would categorize it^^
DeleteI constantly publish at the wrong place. I'm definitely retarded.
ReplyDeleteOMG....M.E......The acting is terrible on this reality show!
ReplyDeleteAfter I saw the film, 'Shutter Island' a few months back, I've started to seriously question my own world views.
ReplyDeleteSometimes I wonder, is it me, or is it them?
But I don't allow myself to yield to the paranoia that these questions bring about.
I realise that my life isn't in my own hands, there's nothing in my own power that I can do to add another day to my existence. A comforting thought.
I keep my side clean, try and keep a steady watch over my own impulses and reactions.
By the way, I like to rely on my intuition, it's pretty accurate.
Delete*realize
DeleteI really don't care to respond when someone is controlling the format of this site.
Intuition, hunches, and first impressions are pretty accurate. You know the advice to stick with your first guess on multiple choice tests? It's for this reason.
DeleteTo the extent that you're invested in wanting certain things to be true or not, you'll behave irrationally and make poor decisions, so you need to remove those biases. Otherwise trusting your intuition is a good bet.
I loved Shutter Island. The book is a great read too - different ending though, and the film cheats you.
DeleteHey Ellicit, your shrink doesn't sound too great. I know what you mean by fake empathy, that pisses me off. Can you find someone else to go to? Someone more likable? #unsolicitedadvice
DeleteIt's tricky not forming beliefs - the closest I can come to not doing so is to assign odds on the probability that something is true. I can acknowledge that my information is imperfect and that the odds are never 100%, although this brings a level of detachment that probably isn't helpful for becoming more empathic.
ReplyDelete"I see this sort of ex post self-justification happen in the comments section of this blog from people who are doomed to repeat past mistakes because they refuse a sense of responsibility about their own destiny." I'd love to hear your take on these comments more specifically.
A long time ago(before I went numb) I felt solid. Solid was knowing that I am a jerk, but everyone is. I am selfish as a baby with a diaper pin stuck in it's ass, but everyone else is. Most importantly, I am going to die and everyone else is. So, it is road to nowhere, punctuated with some love, some lust, some goodness and some evil. I suppose the fun to be had is in defying the conventions. Be bizarre and laugh your ass off. That is a very good time and it is free.
ReplyDeleteyeah, be yourself Sofa :)
DeleteMy biggest fear after illness and death, is that people will be mad at me. I hold an alert mechanism, in my stomach. It goes off like a fire alarm. God Forbid, someone gets mad at me at me and the abyss REALLY opens up, this time, and swallows me. It, probably, won't but you don't want to take the chance. Anger has been known to kill those who did not take the necessary precautions, like get an ulcer to stave it off.
DeleteI have distinct memories of the brief period when I was solid. They shine as the best memories of my life, even though I was not doing anything outstanding. When I lost that feeling of solidity,I could not catch a breath of the clear air at the surface, so I resigned myself to drowning and have spent my life, thus.
ReplyDeleteI, first, became solid when I knew that my mother was insane. That knowledge pushed my away from her in an ax like movement to the symbiotic cord that held us( It was really parasitic)
DeleteBut, there I was, as if born anew. I could breath, but the price was ever vigilance of the knowledge that she was insane. I repeated it, as a mental mantra, but I could never show it. I learned to lie, which would have been fine, if I did not start lying to myself. Then, I got enveloped and was virtually gone.
If I tell you my most priceless memories, they may sound silly, but they are as magical as dancing in a musical. I remember each of them, as you remember chocolate cheesecake when you are very hungry. It feels delicious in your mouth and it spreads it's wonder, just for you. Each memory has it's own distinctive elements, but they were all the same, in that I was there, on fucking terra firma.
ReplyDelete:)
Delete<3 Zoe
DeleteThe you of you is under the debris( and there is a friggin lot, in some cases). There may be a strand left, like a piece of hair or spaghetti, but it is someone, nonetheless.
Deleteone approach: be grateful that you are you and not her. and from that gratitude comes compassion, then freedom.
DeleteWise thoughts, Zoe dear. Thank you!
Deletewise thoughts from one who has a difficult elderly parent.
Deletehe refuses to leave the apartment to even check the mailbox, to go to a doctor for anything, and also refuses any services, such as house cleaning, or even pizza delivery, that would require him to open the door to a stranger or god forbid let them in. we're not close, which actually makes it easier to cope with. his mantra was always "you have your life, it's none of my business". now it's "i'm not asking you for anything" paired with "something is not right with me, i'm so tired!".
without getting into detail, there is some recent cognitive impairment, undiagnosed as he won't go to a doctor at all. he also has significant undiagnosed psychological limitations and challenges, similar to alexithymia and autism, that have alway been there (in my opinion). and then there is the person and personal choices.
the challenge is knowing which is which. you just can't tell. feeling obligated leads only to frustration, fear or anger, and other crap that won't help. but realizing that it's a choice, that you are making the choice, frees you. y
whether the debris is there because the other makes it your duty to meet their needs or because the duty is of your own making, is all up to you. much easier to live with the latter.
@vegitopath
ReplyDeletearff arfff!
aww toto wants you to take him with you on your paper route :-)
Delete@potatopath
Deleteda spam is da flattest. dumb up the damn spam.
dats dump down da damn spam!
Deleteta dum da dump
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DeleteTHEY TALK TO ME?
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ME said:
ReplyDelete"He is so afraid of making a bad decision that he avoids making them until they are made for him. That or he waits until his fear and panic of making the decision cause him to take action, any action at all, but all in a fog of willful ignorance -- pretending that certain facts don't exist or (intentionally?) misrepresenting probabilistic outcomes in his mind. All of this is done in an attempt to shield himself from self-hatred or acknowledging certain basic truths about the world that he would rather ignore. I see this sort of ex post self-justification happen in the comments section of this blog from people who are doomed to repeat past mistakes because they refuse a sense of responsibility about their own destiny."
maybe also the person tends to exaggerate in their mind the pitfalls and what could go wrong and avoids actions as a result of a distorted view of reality... an exaggerated negativity... less so a blind eye to basic truths and perhaps more in some cases an avoidant eye to imagined terrors...
yeah i just on't get that.. avoiding instead of confronting and dealing with a situation. the worse the pitfalls the more they demand confronting. how can it be otherwise? tell me someone. this attitude (?) is a mystery to me.
Deleteis it distorted view or lack of courage?
I have it ~
Deleteyou avoid? why avoid?
Deleteif you don't confront it how can you properly assess it?
DeleteI have given up my personal power, so just go into a frozen mode.
DeleteI think it is like the Learned Helplessness of rats, or the elephant who is tethered to the small stool. You give up.
Deletei find it almost painful to not take action. even when things are going well or when nothing can be done, i still need to jump in and DO something. but i'm learning to go with the flow, to not mess things up when all is going according to plan.
Deletecouldn't you do the opposite? make yourself take some action, even a tiny step? it might teach you that you're not so helpless.
i think i know what it might be like. when i'm overwhelmed, i'll feel sick at the thought of having to do a thing and avoid it. it could be just some stupid thing like paying the bills or doing the laundry, or even a fun thing like going out for dinner. it feels like this great weight pressing down and i just want to hide under my bed from the world. is it like that?
No, I really think it is being the consummate victim because you are afraid that every move will bring anger, disapproval or dislike down on your head and all these things are so painful that you would rather abdicate than do them. I wonder if M.E was talking about me when he said some people in the comment section.
Deletebut you're not afraid to bring on the disapproval from others here. what's different here?
Deletein a way it all all all comes down to whether its feelings over the will, or the will over feelings.
Deleteeveryone goes on about feeling things deeply, as if life is somehow less meaningful if you don't. but to feel deeply and be ruled entirely by what you feel seems like the worst kind of prison sentence to me. you can't count on yourself. because you might feel differently tomorrow, because of what someone said or didn't say or what you ate or watched on tv.
what's the point of having a mind if it sinks every time a little emotion washes over it?
ZoeJanuary 31, 2013 at 8:33 PM
Deletebut you're not afraid to bring on the disapproval from others here. what's different here?
Who I am, on here, is exactly who I am. However, I am a vanilla flavor version on myself, in real life, because I am afraid to be authentic, as I am, on here.
ZoeJanuary 31, 2013 at 8:47 PM
Deletein a way it all all all comes down to whether its feelings over the will, or the will over feelings.
everyone goes on about feeling things deeply, as if life is somehow less meaningful if you don't. but to feel deeply and be ruled entirely by what you feel seems like the worst kind of prison sentence to me. you can't count on yourself. because you might feel differently tomorrow, because of what someone said or didn't say or what you ate or watched on tv.
what's the point of having a mind if it sinks every time a little emotion washes over it?
You really get me thinking, Zoe. I can see why you are CEOs favorite ~
not me. vegitopath is the current favorite :-)
DeleteVegitopath is Medusa and it sucks what she is doing. Anyway, you are CEO's favorite, so I just have to live with it ~
DeleteMy wish would be to have my mind back, pristine, before the alien(s) stole it. They took me up to the ship and did surgery on me. YES, I got pregnant and had an alien child, a misfit with a grotesque head. Did I love it? No, but I kept it. I fed it and nurtured it, but it turned on me. You can never trust aliens. So, I sit trying to figure out the mechanics of the situation, mainly how to throw it out in the garbage, the way they do tumors or other disgusting things.
ReplyDelete