I sometimes ponder the nature of the "masks" we're said to wear. Each one of us would probably describe it differently. You? You say you "lie" to yourself until you believe it. I find that funny. I'd take the opposite track--that I'm able to get my way best when I find some essential emotional truth hidden deep in my core that matches the situation, and let it burst forth and control me for a period of time. In that moment, there is no lie, there is no truth, there is only me as you see me. Every facet is a truth when expressed, and a lie when not on display. In other words, I don't think we're all that different from empaths. I think, as in all things, it's the story that we tell ourselves. There is no, "How could I do that? I'm not THAT kind of person!" Only an understanding that, without some sort of code or restrictions in place, we know we're really capable of anything.
So then where does that leave us? I find I can assert and actually express an emotional "truth" or a persona for as long as I wish to maintain it, even when doing so becomes taxing and I really just don't want to. It's even easier to do this when I pick a handful of roles or things to do--ways of taking up my time, and religiously apply myself to them. In other words, I create an identity complete with hobbies, interests, and close friendships. At first everything matters to me just because of its utility, but as time goes on, I find that distinction blurring, and I find myself almost able to actually care for them before I move on. The end result is kind of a constant high, that only occasionally gets pierced by annoyance and anger. Is this what it feels like to be an empath? Am I tricking myself into believing I'm of the herd? Or is the constant assertion a legitimate transformation in the works? I've never stuck with an identity long enough to know. But I'm about to find out as I commit myself to a certain identity for an indefinite period of time.
We know that sociopathy can be learned. But can empathy? Or will I just be in "sleeper mode" for however long the upcoming period of my life lasts? We shall see.
My response:
Do you think you're just becoming attached to the thing? Like when I buy something, let's say a particular pair of shoes that I like, I think of everyday that I wear them in terms of what I thought the initial bargain was going to be. If, when I bought them, I thought that I would get 100 days of wear out of them, then once I get to that 101st day, everything is surplus, and I'm extra pleased with the shoes because they have exceeded my initial expectations of their value. Is that what you feel? Or something different?
Reader:
I suppose it may be attachment, but it's still an attachment based upon the brain's basic potential to emote--to trigger the mechanisms that cause whatever combination of stimulation and narrative we call emotion. And those attachments or emotions allow me to forget for awhile, that ultimately these people, experiences, and things in my life could be discarded without care and I could find others to replace them. It allows me to indulge in the illusion that they matter to me in a way that I imagine non-socios enjoy and connect with their surroundings. But if it comes down to it, they can be discarded all the same. Hell, this life I'm assuming is one I've already discarded. Was this life objectively "better" or "more fulfilling" than any of the other lives I've lived so far or any of the lives I lived since I abandoned it the first time? No, just different. Our society prioritizes and rewards a certain level of consistency, and I found that the combination of stimulation and boundaries that came with this life allowed me to craft a believable narrative weaving together all of the lives I've lived so far, and even more importantly kept me from falling into the cliche bad habits of aggression, parasitism, and manipulation.
I honestly don't understand what the reader means. Anybody?
Could it be this? When one is lying in the commonly understood way, there is a dissonance between what one is portraying and what one knows to be true. However by not holding on to a consistent "self" and throwing him/her self whole heartedly into the current role, this reader experiences the role with no sense of falsehood caused by internal conflict?
ReplyDeletePav.
i don't see adapting the self as lying but communicating. if i'm in France and speak French, and adopt the local mannerisms, i might react with feeling in a way the English me wouldn't and couldn't.
Deletei've created a new self, with no internal conflict or sense of falsehood in the short term. but if i stayed in France i might start to feel some inner discontent from the English me, some need to express it. to the English me, the French me is a sham. if I left France I might not even feel nostalgic. it all depends. different things need different lengths of time to stick.
isn't that what we're talking about?
so i guess what i mean is does the self actually change or just adapt. isn't adapting the primary function of the self? consistent self seems like a contradiction in terms to me. i mean consistent with respect to what?
Deletealso, static self seems unhealthy. isn't healthy self fluid, dynamic, always responding to the environment and adapting? or maybe that's just chameleon me rationalizing.
anyway, good point pav. just needed to get my pontifications in. :-)
i dont know. but, it looks like rationalizing to me.
ReplyDeleteme too.
Deleteisn't switching identities normal when you're young and finding yourself, or when you're in a transition? i don't see how that's sociopathic.
the reader seems like an empath with some chameleon abilities and/or greater self awareness than the norm. but chameleon abilities wouldn't require a span of time for the change, so maybe it's just greater self-awareness of her evolving identity?
at the core of feeling is the decision to feel. you can shut it off with the right motivation and enough awareness. my impression is the reader is about to be married and getting cold feet. :-)
at the core of feeling is the decision to feel. you can shut it off with the right motivation and enough awareness.
DeleteIt's true!
It's what I'd written you before, An Empath/Socio. I should note that I'm a hyperempath sociopath, in that I'm capable of feeling real emotions of others, it just doesn't trigger a superego respond from my conscience.
ReplyDeleteI understand the reader all too well. I don't lie most of the time, I instead become that person. If I feel I have to tell I'm under pain, I'll actually suffer that pain and tell that. If I want to act genuinely happy, then I become genuinely happy for a while. You understand how to manipulate your own psyche to a point that you don't have to "smile like you mean it", you really do smile as you do mean it.
Are you an wizard?
DeleteOoh!
DeleteDig! There are not many of us out here. Sehr gut!
Deleteexcuse me, Thearcanist. iow, you are detached from them but know exactly how they feel, and instead of having a genuine emotional response, you do emotional recall at the drop of a hat? To induce realistic behaviour? You are the one fond of method acting, yes?
Delete**to induce realistic emotional expression, rather.
Delete
ReplyDeleteWhen I read this, I thought of a Psych concept, "Inner Locus of Control vs Outer" If you had any abuse and/or any PD, you have lost your inner locus of control imo
IOW, you are looking for the outside to TELL you who you are. That is what I hear described in this story and in many I read from sociopaths. I, as an empath, have the same struggle. However, I think the answer is to force inward reflection and to mine, mine, mine those emotions, like digging for coal. Those emotions, whether they are shallow or not ARE you. You, as your essence, are your emotions. Sociopaths have emotions, as do empaths. I, from abuse, shut down my emotions. I think most sociopaths did, too. My program for myself is to force myself to express my emotions. Then, I see that I am OK. Creative writing has been a huge part of this. SW has been a huge part because I express all my emotions on here, the best and the worst of me. Now, I have taken this into my real life and am forcing myself to do the same. I think the process of "finding one's core" would be the same for the sociopath, as the empath. Maybe, I am wrong.
Hi Monica.
DeleteI am finding core, too. But I am finding the core is also judgmental and I do not like! **But I am learning that everyone around us is judgmental**, and WAY more than I can imagine myself becoming.. I see the difference very clearly.
Now I am forced to have opinions and feelings that come and go (and contradict) from my head, even regarding myself. It is a wonky feeling. So sometimes I do not know which way is up, and I choose doing nothing until I am sure how I feel. It is better, even though I feel like a wet noodle sometimes.
Yes, Anon
DeleteIt is not a linear thing, but if you are there, you have your start. Keep going and I am here, when you want to talk.
That is very nice of you, Monica. Thank you :)
DeleteYou are welcome, Anon. I help you. You help me. It is all a circle of sharing and we each get better!
DeleteYes :)
DeleteYou know what is really hard for me? When I feel utter hatred from my mother, like I did today, on the phone. She may hate me because I am getting more successful and have more of a sense of self esteem. Who knows, but I shut down my emotions because I could not find a place for the hatred, disdain and rejection from someone who was supposed to be someone I could trust. When I shut down my core, I shut it down, wholesale. Then, anyone could victimize me because I did not trust what I was feeling. Do you guys know what I mean?
DeleteNot really, Monica. What do you mean you shut down your emotions while you were talking to her? If she's being a bitch to you then stab her in the guts with your words or just hang up.
DeleteWell, what happened to me, as a defense mechanism, a long time ago, was to FREEZE my own reactions. Then, I was roadkill to her and others, because I became frozen in the face of seeing what a jerk people were. Do you see what I mean, Ellicit?
DeleteIOW, she would do things to me like be hateful and disrespectful and then when I called her on it, she said I made it up. So, I learned to have no trust in my own reactions.
Deleteyes they always say you made it up or you twist things around. They blame you and tell you you are like walking on eggshells when it is them. It was them. They made you crazy.
DeleteThey say "I am just telling you the truth", when they are just being unkind and critical. They cannot see what is right in front of them. -- Their selves. THey do not examine their behaviour. Then they go and criticize a poor shy person and say "they are socially retarded"
Excuse me?? WHO is socially retarded ??? YOU. Y O U you DUMB ASS MOTHERFUCKER.
They do not know why a person, a CHILD growing into themself, would be upset from their lack of sensitivity, never mind cruel, cruel words.
THey teach you to hate your reactions , that they are wrong, so you get confused . Because you were a child. You look to a parent for support, to nurture, to give healthy self esteem, and they teach you to dislike your core, not develop into a whole person..
ANd it takes a lifetime to get a core, all because they robbed it. Killed it. THey should die a slow death. But no, they are utterly immune to pain. Happy as fucking clams in their little "I am a good person" routine.
" It allows me to indulge in the illusion that they matter to me in a way that I imagine non-socios enjoy and connect with their surroundings. But if it comes down to it, they can be discarded all the same."
ReplyDeleteDitto
:) Good Morning Sociopathworld!!!!!!!
ReplyDeletehey
DeleteHey Zoe! How are ya?
Deletegood and you? :-)
DeleteGood Morning Rich! :)
ReplyDeleteHow are you doin'?
Iam well, how about you?
Delete"i had awareness of myself before i knew i was female, so female is just another layer to wear, not the core me."
ReplyDeleteDEMON?
Everyone's out looking for a core.
DeleteGood morning Rich and MYMind!
ReplyDeleteRIch and Monica, my Dad's gf is agoraphobic, too. She has anxiety and fear, also.. Want to hear sthg interesting? When she was younger she had hallucinations and they put her on all sorts of fucked up drugs in a hospital, saying she was a schizo. . she doesn't believe in western medicine since. I think she is an Uber Empath now that you have described yourself..
I also think she is socio/narc bait, because of my Dad.
"Empaths only feel "selective empathy". They only feel bad for people like them. They seldom attempt to empathize with sociopaths."
ReplyDeletei do.
empathizing with the unaware is a whole other story. i have a really hard time with that. someone who sees me but doesn't feel for me, at worst makes me shrug.
if i have to choose between the two, i would rather be seen.
someone who feels for me but doesn't see me makes it impossible for me to feel anything back. it's like i'm a placeholder for the person living only in their head, like sofa's chalk outline, and yet accountable to their feelings.
if they also are slaves to their bodily functions, even worse. it fills me with disgust. you know, like when you're with them having dinner but you effectively vanish from their minds while they are eating because they are so preoccupied with the sensation?
DeleteYou explain this very well, Zoe. TY .
thanks. it's a bit of a brain dump but was the best i could do. it's something i've been thinking about. there is one person in particular... he keeps pursuing a friendship. we tried dating several time and it never works out. i try to be nice, we go out and then something he does or says, or even just the look on his face fills me with such a sudden dislike that i lash out. he's sending out feelers again. the guy is a glutton for punishment.
Deletehe's not bad looking, but there is something at his core that fills me with disgust. i wish i knew what it was.
i know it's because of the complete and slavish submission to the gratification of his bodily functions. i just don't know why it fills me with such intense dislike and disgust.
Deletei would rather watch someone squat in the street and have a bad bowel movement than have dinner with this guy. what's with that? :-(
LOL Zoe!
DeleteThe ex who got me reading about sociopaths (mal narc) got me to come inside the bathroom to have a chat whilst he was sitting on his bowl. shitting. I hardly even knew him. He just wanted to see if he could get me to do that. Man is about to retire.
my knife wielding deodorant free ex wouldn't let me watch him pee.
Deletewe were walking in the middle of nowhere and he told me to walk ahead cause he had to go. when i turned around to see what was taking him so long he shrieked like a girl that i was looking. so i had to keep walking...
i should point out that it was night, i was six or more car lengths away, and i had already seen it up close. :-)
I knew it was about the size of my penis, Zoe!!!!!!!!!!!! You bitches and your platitudes like . , . "size matters"
Deletethe mask is not a lie
ReplyDeleteit's a social aid like glasses
or that's how it starts out and than...
Deleteyes!
Deletenot the mask is bad (evil) but how you use it
Deletespend some time with an anspie and you be bored out of your skull
that's what i would look like if i didn't wear a mask
glasses can look seriously sexy on some girles
Deleteand i always want to make the good girles do bad things
DeleteWhen dating I can choose to manipulate/charm but what's in it for me? Getting some long term pet i need to entertain? How nice... for them"
ReplyDeleteSCHIZOÏD
the only limit to a sociopath is his imagination
Deleteyou are severely lacking
DeleteDerp.
DeleteIt goes without saying that having a human as a pet implies having certain (total) liberties with someones life, and thus the freedom to do anything with, to, or, for them.
DeleteI was pondering whether, perhaps, there might be a way of getting such an arrangement without incurring the long-term costs that come with extended charm and manipulation. Yes, seducing is the most enjoyable and straightforward method. Give someone the illusion that they are finding everything they've ever wanted in another human and they could be hooked for life. The seducer, however, also carries the risk of falling in love with the persona (and target) created in the seduction and, when the most exciting part is over, being forced to choose between giving up something they are now acutely aware could bring them considerable pleasure and keeping it but having to be indefinitely responsible for its upkeep. Maybe there is a way to have only the good? Because, honestly, what could be less demoralizing than having to seduce your own spouse?
Growing control over something, much like the training and bonding that comes with a new pet, is most fun and exciting in its inception. But eventually it all just becomes another responsibility. Yes, eventually, the pet becomes willing to give up life and liberty for its master. People might be in awe of such a possession and this dominion ostensibly seems to benefit the owner. Once learned, its simply performing the same, endlessly, repeatable tasks and one has a being to do its bidding. But there inevitably comes a time when one can't help but grow indifferent toward the sight of a tail that still wags for the reach of the same collar. And resentment mounts toward the face that still lights up with the hope of being leashed and, once again, lead through the most exciting moments of its otherwise boring life. Most might recoil at such statements simply because they have the capacity to reap emotional benefits. For them the control (training) might be the means to an end (bond) ... whereas for others, the means (bond) might actually be the end (control).
While actively dating, with the possibility of entering a long-term relationship, I can't help but wonder if there might not be more to gain from simply being open about ones less glamorous traits. Emotional shallowness, etc. Could it be better to resist the urge to stretch oneself too much? Saving total seductions for, occasions, when there is less risk of inadvertently falling into love? Although this, too, could prove to be a fool's errand...I suspect that the more complex a masks creation is, the more pleasurable wearing it proves to be.
Nice book. Needs more action, more drama, and more surprises.
DeleteThanks, I'm always looking for notes.
DeleteJust kidding. I liked your text, it was interesting. Thanks for writing it.
DeleteThat's too bad. I liked pretending to be a Hollywood big shot. Even if it was just for a moment...
DeleteTake whichever comment you'd like to see as the truth.
DeleteThere is no truth. There are only ones and zeroes.
DeleteAnon 12:46
DeleteMay I pick your brain :D
1246, yeah. On a lot of it.
DeleteI do think there is a way to keep it good and exciting. But you have to let the other one control and take turns. You have to allow the person to seduce you. DOn't you want to have my own tail wagging a bunch??
I think there is a way to have cake and eat it, too. But risk is involved. I have to learn to gamble. I do not like to bond because I have fear. But I have to try. I want to stay.
But of COURSE I have to continue to seduce, I want them seduce me, too. - How uninteresting a relationship would be if there is only one seducer? Why not try being the pet once in a while? It's quite nice to have your belly rubbed.
.
**Don't * I * want to have my own tail..
DeleteYou know what is a really big risk? Letting someone see you.
Deleteyea that is hard.
DeleteYep, showing your insides to someone is scarier than sky diving ~
DeleteI used to throw all my baggage on the table the minute I met someone.
DeleteI did not see THEM. I did not know them, but I thought they were in my future *rolls eyes* and that they should know all my faults right away. Can you imagine? -So they could leave me before I got hurt. Then they would. HullllO, of course they did. Because I'm nutty. Or they would fall in love and I would reject.
I made a bunch of booboos. But I have fixed.
No. I am not so nutty.
DeleteI hear you. Authenticity is hard. You have to reveal, but not throw up ~
DeleteWhy not try being the pet once in a while? It's quite nice to have your belly rubbed.
Deletelol
I would like to be a pet~
Deletelike a pony?
Deleteum.. saddle, crate, leash, cage, collar, muzzle, cage, mouse wheel, harness, bit, litter box, spaying (eek!), clipped body parts, hair balls, pink booties, crunchy animal by products... not. for. Zoe.
DeleteZoe can retract her claws and rub her own belly. :-)
Deletelol
DeleteOK I give you spaying ~
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa0RUmGTCYY
ReplyDeleteEsther Perel: The secret to desire in a long-term relationship
Deleteerotisism as an antidote to death
Deletefuck the pain away (peaches)
Screw her.
DeleteMy relationship with Mac is perfect. <3 ;)
Exactly, Benny <3 <3
DeleteBIGmac?
Deletefatso
DeleteI like that, 1135.
DeleteThe state of the art flex belt, try it you will not
ReplyDeleteregret it.
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My webpage: the flex belt reviews
Dedicated to M.E whom I love from afar
ReplyDeleteI am at the bottom of a vortex, the dunces hat end, the needle point. I think I can see light. Maybe, there are helicopters like when they search for a missing person. It would, probably, be more of a relief effort, where they drop down supplies to the starving. I hear them! They know I am here. I just have to make some sort of fucking movement, so they see me. "I am here," I shout. They can't hear because the sound of the helicopters is deafening. The main point is that I am almost found.
^More platitudes. You've been hovering on the brink of being "found", "breaking through the bell jar" (a la sylvia plath), "piercing the numb" for over a year now. Why do you compulsively report the same "epiphanies" over and over again?
DeleteZing!
DeleteThe Reader is saying that sociopathy can be a learned behavior. So in essence, if you are now looking for your core personality - you brought this on yourself?
ReplyDeleteA lot of sociopathic behaviors can be learned through abuse or bullying, but lets just say that you'll never have the same survival instincts and manipulation skills a psychopath has to begin with.
DeleteAnon 3:49
DeleteBut that was not my question?
I know, just felt like saying it. lol
DeleteAren't you a Rogue Scholar. LOL
DeleteMethod acting works wonders.
ReplyDeleteGot me across the border numerous times.
Got across with a my hand pressed over the mouth of the dog in my bag when I was a runaway on a greyhound crossing the border from the States back to Canada. Got me across with hash under my armpit and more liquor than allowed coming back from overseas. People who are supposedly experts only see the persona you have snapped into.
Isis
You can get emotional support animal tags so you wont have to hide your doggie.
DeleteOr did you just not want the dog to make noise so it wouldn't call attention to you?
I had a bag of heroine in the dog's mouth too. He died when we got home. Bag ripped. Poor dog.
DeleteIsis
Power = respect
ReplyDeletei was kidding when i said ME is npd
gues teh joke's on ME
:) Good Morning again Sociopathworld!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteGood Morning Rich!
DeleteHello!
DeleteGood Morning Rich and Everyone!!
ReplyDeleteGood morning Rich, MyMind, and Monica!
ReplyDeleteThe voice of death whispers. It wants me dead, no doubt about it. I want to slip away, too, into the dark, into the stillness. Would it be like sleep?
ReplyDeleteIt may be like roiling darkness. It may be the worst thing I ever did.
I am not the old fool I used to be. You know?
I know.
Deletessshhhhhh
DeleteGetting attached to somebody or something past its usefulness? Lol wat. What's the point of that.
ReplyDeleteI believe s/he is simply wondering wether s/he might feel emotionally connected to his/her friends if s/he stays put with them longer. I suppose he/she wants to be encouraged to attemt this.
ReplyDelete