There are ways to help people that still allow the rush of power, said power is simply less benevolent. People who've been helped tend to rely upon those who helped them, respecting their advice and guidance once the results come piling in. Knowing the game can allow you to work around the usual resistances people put up against advice, and can make for faster changes in the individual for the better, making the world ever so slightly a less monotonous place, while still practicing the talent for control in ways that still show results. People in such cases are sort of like rescued pets from an animal shelter; hurt, damaged, needing the help of others because they are too blinded to help themselves, and then there I am, willing to take them in, psychologically nurse them back to health, and turn such a person back upon society who suddenly carries views that partially reflect my own, spreading it.
I've tried to be a good person, but at certain points of trust, it becomes tempting to see how blindly they'll follow obviously bad advice, much like leading an animal around with a laser pointer. Helping someone become a better person is like watching a plant grow, slow and gently rewarding, where using a lighter to ignite the plant is exciting, but immediate gratification that is as quick as it came. There's pride in one's achievements, but achievements in the realm of life-crushing are seldom as nostalgic as an unburnt bridge you just helped reinforce. Plus, the typical need for reciprocity can have yields for keeping such people around until it's no longer desirable, which, with life-helping prospects as a prior context, can leave you the 55 in a 45/55 split perception of power; the perception of being one step ahead.
The main part that sucks the most is when good advice has a bad outcome. For myself, it makes me feel as if I failed them in some way, which is damaging to my sense of pride, and I cannot tolerate failure from myself quite as easily as I can from others with reduced senses of awareness, who really can't help but make mistakes as they feel around life blindly in the dark, relishing what few things they can see (could easily have this argument reflected back at me, for in some ways I am blind too).
I thought this was an interesting comment, the idea that helping someone become a better person is like watching a plant grow. In some ways for me helping people allows me to live multiple lives, alternative realities. It's like a chessmaster who is playing multiple games at once. A blackjack player playing multiple hands at once. It is not enough for my brain to want to maximize my own success, but also to imagine what it would be like to live another life, and succeed in that one as well.
I don't do it for the other person. In fact, a lot of times the people I "help" would rather I had not. A lot of my friends ask me for stock advice. I gave one friend some advice right before the market crash in 2008. They followed my advice, but only in broad strokes and lost a significant sum of money. Interestingly, I used an even more risky strategy with my own money and managed to come out ok. But that is just the nature of probability and risk. Maybe I understand probabilities better than most people because I have a larger pool of observations from which to draw. One major benefit of living these multiple lives -- I understand that there are very few "sure things" in life.
Tsrif
ReplyDelete"They followed my advice, but only in broad strokes..."
ReplyDeleteI fucken hate when people do this shit and then blame me for their pathetic failures.
Theme Series
ReplyDeleteTheme for M. Brig
ReplyDeleteTheme for Daniel Birdick
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ReplyDeleteI understand that there are very few "sure things" in life.
ReplyDeleteRight.
As for the comment featured in the post – The thing about advice, the thing we all forget, is that exact circumstances differ. The entire string of events which lead to your particular life situation differ from those of the person you’re trying to advise. And by “entire string of events”, I mean entire, right down to the fermions and bosons. That difference matters because it often (perhaps more often than any of us cares to admit) means that what worked for you may not work for someone else precisely because that entire string of events can never be replicated. The string of events are the causes while the success your advisee is wishing to duplicate for herself is the effect. You cannot reliably reproduce an effect without being able to reproduce the causes of said effect. Maybe this then is why so much of our sage advice is ignored, or when it is taken, it doesn’t lead to the desired outcome as often as we’d like.
Dan my man, please take no offense, but after reading the post I was struck by the fluid movements of the writers thoughts. Brilliant, definately functioning at a higher cognitiuve level than myself. However, there must be a great loneliness, to exist at that level. And then I read your critique... Circular reasoning. I believe that the author understands your perspective, as it is inescapable and "he" did not digress to explain all external variables associated with the subject matter presented.
DeleteThis is a very obvious tactic to gain control and influence. Pretty self-explanatory
ReplyDeleteTwitter Tweets:
ReplyDelete"A society focused on humility seeks to drag everyone down to mediocrity." Really? Who writes this shite?
You're saying that the Tibetans are mediocre? Then why are they so hated by China? Silly me, and here I thought to humble yourself - you were exalted.
You're saying that the Tibetans are mediocre?
DeleteYep. They were beaten by a superior military force. They allowed their religious convictions to make them in essence powerless. How utterly average is that?
Then why are they so hated by China?
Because the Chinese see Tibet as much a part of China as Americans thought the southern states were during the Civil War? Because they see the Dalai Lama not as some harmless old guru in spectacles but as a separatist leader bent on destabilizing the western part of their country?
A diamond has more than one facet...
Birdick
Delete"They allowed their religious convictions to make them in essence powerless."
Religious convictions? They were outnumbered that's what made them powerless.
"How utterly average is that?"
Nothing average about it! The truth won and their message has spread worldwide. The Tibetans may have lost the battle and country but they won the war.
Religious convictions? They were outnumbered that's what made them powerless.
DeleteSuperior numbers do not always win wars, as Great Britain discovered during the Revolutionary War and as the US discovered during the Vietnam War. Perhaps if the Tibetans had focused less on meditation and more on wartime preparation, they may have managed to hold onto their sovereignty a little while longer.
The Tibetans may have lost the battle and country but they won the war.
Only history’s losers manage to rationalize clear and unequivocal defeat as victory. The issue was never about religious ideas. There are after all millions of Buddhists in China today. No, the real issue, from the Chinese government’s perspective anyway, was about reestablishing sovereignty. China won, the Tibetans lost.
Berdick
DeleteYou can not equate the numbers in Britain and Vietnam to the Tibetan war. Also, the Tibetans made a conscious choice of how they would engage in that battle. And they made the right choice.
"Only history's losers manage to rationalize clear and unequivocal defeat as victory."
And only narcissists see a battle in black and white without shades of gray.
We differ on the results of that war. Enough said.
You can not equate the numbers in Britain and Vietnam to the Tibetan war.
DeleteI just did. It was to make a larger point. Both are valid examples.
Also, the Tibetans made a conscious choice of how they would engage in that battle.
Your appreciation for and ignorance of history is so banal. You imply that the Tibetans made a choice which lead inexorably to their defeat. I supposed you’d argue that the Native Americans used a similar strategy when they were expelled from their homelands, right?
And they made the right choice.
According to who? You? Who made you arbiter of all things right and wrong? Or are you referring to an objective standard of right and wrong that only you happen to have access to?
And only narcissists see a battle in black and white without shades of gray.
The psychological projection here is absolutely priceless! What’s so delicious about it is your complete and utter blindness to it.
We differ on the results of that war.
Yes we do. I have a command of historical facts. You have wishful thinking, useless moral outrage and narcissistic projection.
Enough said.
Indeed. ;-)
These aren't the droids you're looking for.
DeleteIf this is the same anonymous, then good answer!
DeleteBerdick
DeleteWell, I'm working on the fact that I was influenced by a narcissist but I do think I will be successful in that quest of overcoming those learned behaviors. :)
Good luck then.
DeleteWhat's your story? Are you here because this "narcissistic influencer" hurt you?
Birdick 12:10
Delete"What's your story?"
I believe you become and influenced by those you spend time with. Peace be with you. :-)
Aaaannnd just like that we're back.
DeleteIf you believe what you just wrote then why are you here? Also, if you "become" who you spend time with then... you're a typical human being. Nothing wrong with that. It's just boring.
I henceforth deem you Captain Banal.
Birdick 12:27
Delete"I believe you become and influenced by those you spend time with."
I was not referring to anyone on this site. I was referring to a real life personal contact.
Captain, most people spend their lives reflecting each other’s dull egoic imagery back to each other and call it “community”. Only the iconoclast, or those born outside of the standard ego loop by virtue of having non-standard brains, are free of it.
DeleteAnd why should you be beyond the influence of those on this site?
On second thought, I shouldn't have said or. It takes a non-standard brain to become an iconoclast (breaker of sacred images), doesn't it?
DeleteOk then Cap'n. How will you break out of the ego loop and stop "becoming" what other people, especially narcissistic types, want you to become? Do you have a non-standard brain? Judging by your comments so far, it doesn't look promising.
Btw, you can never become what you aren't anyway. You can fake it, sure, but sometimes you never actually make it.
Please don't talk about troop numbers amassed during the Vietnam war as a point of fact. Tatics! Tactics! Tactics! Perseverance, Power, & strength! Put me in command with warriors AND numbers..... I will roll you hard!!
Delete"if you "become" who you spend time with then... you're a typical human being. Nothing wrong with that. It's just boring."
DeleteDaniel have you ever felt what it is like to be like a chameleon?
I am a chameleon of sorts. I do it on purpose though. I never actually "become" someone else; I merely pretend to when it suits my purpose. On the inside, I remain the same.
DeleteOh. Did you always know you did this? Did you do it unconsciously before you noticed, or have you always been aware of it?
DeleteIf so, do you ever get tired when you are away from them, like you need to take your hair down when you get home?
Cliché time. I realized I was different in kindergarten, blah, blah, blah. I was a very anti-social little kid. I got into trouble regularly. Then I started wising up. I retreated into myself around the age of 8 and began observing. Then I began deliberately incorporating what I'd observed about the social mores of the other children into how I presented myself, and voilà, a chameleon was born.
DeleteI do have my low energy periods where yes, it does feel like a relief to come home to silence and quiet. I don't have many of those days though.
I take it you sort of finding yourself mirroring other people to the point that you think you "become" them, without consciously choosing to? Again, you cannot become someone else, even if you believe you do.
"I take it you sort of finding yourself mirroring other people to the point that you think you "become" them, without consciously choosing to? Again, you cannot become someone else, even if you believe you do."
DeleteNo I know i never become anyone. But yes, it feels very real. With my boyfriends, I have to resist some mirroring or else i see myself slipping into them. I want to give you 2 examples to sort some of this out.
1 - The one whose personality led me to start reading sw was a high narcissist and i needed to shake him off. He needed to have the best of everything, especially clothing. For a few weeks after we broke up, i found myself looking in expensive clothing windows. It was eerie. I absorbed some of him.
2- If I date a man with children, and we are out, and I see he looks at a cute kid one day and i observe this has important meaning to him, the next time we are together and i see a kid first i will point out the kid and say how adorable i think the kid is. ( I know that I am not a big fan of kids, but this is my way of ..idk .. seducing, I guess )
THese 2 are different for me. With the first example, he is sociopathic. (He is more narcissist, but still it was a manipulation. He wanted me materialistic)
With the second example, this is all my doing.
I hear this is the borderline way. I didn't know. It is hard to know when or if i am doing it for them or for me. I didn't know i did it until someone pointed it out to me here.
" I began deliberately incorporating what I'd observed about the social mores of the other children into how I presented myself, and voilà, a chameleon was born."
This is the way i think i was.
Are you a borderline male/casanova type, Daniel? Themes classic for you says this.
It is hard to know when or if i am doing it for them or for me.
DeleteIf I had to guess, I’d say you were doing it for you.
I had to Google the phrase ‘borderline male Casanova’, since I was unfamiliar with it. No, I don’t meet that description at all. Using seduction as a means of somehow capturing the lost affection of a mother/female figure is an alien motivation to me. It’s so alien in fact that I used to be utterly blind to it in others.
When I was in my early 20s I couldn’t fathom why people would bother lying or playing elaborate games for anything other than money or power. I learned that satisfying unconsciously held egoic needs is as powerful a motivator as greed. Hell, the human ego is itself a force of nature.
Anyway, what did you gain by unconsciously incorporating your boyfriends’ desires/views into your own psyche?
I learned that satisfying unconsciously held egoic needs is as powerful a motivator as greed. Hell, the human ego is itself a force of nature.
DeleteYeah it is pretty weird to chase things from past unmet needs. you know it is the meaning of the person, not the person. They dont really exist for you the way they think they do for you. And you can't tell them.
What did I gain? Them, and longer attachment with them. I ask myself if i like to have them define for me what i will/should be for them. Stupid. Idk. But it can be fun to put on another skin. I get to play personality dress up. It certainly is not boring. But It is a lot of effort for one itty bitty man. I will ask myself what the hell am i doing and then shrug. Sometimes I cannot decide if these are frivolous things to gain, if they are even worth it. My guess is no, but idk.
With the high narcissist I could tell he had standards. I wanted to fulfill them, that's all. It made him feel like keeping me when i pleased him and i wanted to be kept around. I liked him, that's all. Narcissists are very easy. But with him, i could also tell that the more i bent for him, the less respect he had for me. he was a fucking ass- backwards nuisance, but i did not care.
With the other, it was also about longer attachment. If he saw i was liking sweet children he wanted to think i would be good to his. He came deeper to wanting me in his life the more i was ideal for his needs.
I morph so nicely but it's kind of stupid to live like this. I am very strong, anyway, and i dont like people telling me what to do or who i should be, so it doesnt make any sense at all.
tmrw i will prob feel different about this post.
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tmrw i will prob feel different about this post.
DeleteHours have passed. Do you feel differently?
Is that what BPD feels like? Constantly changing moods and thought processes? (Assuming you think you have that.) Can you snap yourself out of it when you "morph", so to speak?
What did I gain? Them, and longer attachment with them.
And this longer attachment made you feel, what? Secure? Whole? Did it fill some kind of void? Do you lash out when the person you think you have "morphed" into leaves?
Yes, I do feel a little differently. It feels like what i was saying yesterday was over- the- top in terms of the emotional investment. Reading it now, I don't feel there is anything pathological about me that would make me feel so "different" I feel like i sound like i am a normal girl. But yesterday when i wrote it, i felt like i do and think bizarre things no one else might do. It feels like an exaggeration.
DeleteI dont know how other experience bpd, but it is a noisy jumble of mixed feelings. I sometimes have to figure out "how should I feel instead of "what do i feel"
i assume they will leave
Yes i can snap out of it . but then there is nothing but me there and i do not feel like a n y t h i n g. It is like i need that life raft so i can BE there. Otherwise i can check out.
The attachment made me feel loved. Yes, it filled a void. Yes i do lash out, if not externally, then certainly internally.
My mood and thought processes change all the time.
DeleteI have to explain what I mean by loved. This attachment bond is like a stuffed animal thing. You try to pry a favorite stuffed animal from a child, you will see a similar reaction. I cannot use a person to soothe myself out of emptiness. it never works anyway, and that's too big a request for anyone.
I can feel the real kind, too. There is lots of fear.
The hero in my book is a person that plants a tree, waters it, and steps away with assurance that the tree was given roots and water for THEIR life without the need for my observance and judgement.
ReplyDeleteI sometimes think M.E. has done this ^. What say you, M.E.? Am I wrong?
DeleteI've thought this about sociopaths for a very long time because not ALL of them are violent soul-suckers. My dissertation is on "Why We Need Sociopaths" and this blog has provided much insight. I'm a psychology major and what better career field for a sociopath....emotional detachment, rational/logical problem solving abilities and plenty of narcissism to get it done. Narcissistic supply (in my opinion) doesn't always need to come from obliterating someone and, as mentioned above, you gain control and superiority in the end.
ReplyDeleteEnjoy. You'll do well in academia. Just cover your butt.
Delete@Nicole
DeleteI'm confused. Who held the superior position in the end? Curious.
The sociopath wins. Always. My claim is that people don't have to get hurt in the process. After reading ME's book reviews, she seems to hold the same opinion =)
Delete