I'm writing to you about the topic of Machiavellianism. I've noticed that you have not wrote an article concerning it at all yet, and I thought that considering it is a dark triad personality that that was surprising... in fact I suspect it is not an anomaly that it has been left out.
Machiavellianism according to the Oxford Dictionary has been defined as "the employment of cunning and duplicity in statecraft or in general conduct." And more relevantly - psychologically speaking - it describes the tendency to be emotionally cool and detached from others, resulting in the Machiavellian personality being more able or fully capable of disregarding conventional morality. In other words, the Machiavellian personality experiences low levels of emotion, intellectual empathy making the Machiavellian exceedingly crafty in their manipulation and all the more cunning, possessing a minute or no conscience at all.
The reason I took an interest to SociopathWorld (is it separated or joined words for SW?) was to explore my own personality, for sociopathy at the time of my limited knowledge in psychology seemed to fit adequately. As I delved deeper into the nature of sociopathy, I noticed it did not quite fit. Nevertheless, the topic fascinated me and I discovered psychology did too.
As to why I decided the Machiavellian personality fitted me more than the sociopathic one is because - on some level - I care about two people, however they are only somewhat important in comparsion to the pursuit of power and my own self-interest. Any means necessary will be used to this end - providing I will get off scot free: I will feign emotion, charm, manipulate, subliminally or openly blackmail, coerce, et cetera you aren't new these lists, haha.
At a younger age, when I began noticing my pathological emotional detachment from people, I knew I could use it to my advantage. I examined other people's weaknesses in an attempt to exploit them, but due to my own weaknesses (arrogance) I sometimes failed, facing frustration, I decided to research. I suspected I was the problem, and I eventually discovered that one must realize his own weaknesses in order to eradicate them. Other perceived weaknesses can be turned into a strength - my basic personality is more lenient towards being introverted - so I'm particularly hard to read, always think before I speak and make it count. Gradually, my ability to be extravert improved vastly too.
Would you say that I have sociopathic tendencies that do not overlap with the Machiavellian personality?
P.S: I saw an article regarding some INTJ personality types being sociopathic. If it helps, my personality type is XNTJ.
M.E.: Actually, if anything, have you considered whether you might be narcissistic? You mention arrogance, and your email comes across as being arrogant, but maybe it's just the subject matter you're talking about. Should we publish what you wrote and see how other people feel on the subject?
Reader:
Regarding my younger self, I'd say I was more cocky than actually arrogant. I enjoyed a bit of admiration, and I seemed a notch above everyone else I knew, as I have quite an insightful thought process which used to make me think, "this would all be better if people rolled over and let me take care of it, fucking idiots." I have confidence in my abilities, I simply asserted that confidence arrogantly, hence being cocky.
If I liked admiration, I could be flattered - flattery is like a weapon, and I had to make it ineffective. Made me feel powerful, rather than the satisfaction narcissists seem to withdraw from admiration.
Arrogance, to any degree is unattractive and therefore uncharming, didn't help my image, it had to go.
Some narcissist types have to go the opposite route of arrogance because if they get a whiff of how people perceive them( and somewhere down the line, someone's gon tell 'em their shit stink too) , they are ashamed to show their arrogance. It's a round the bend way to being humbled.
ReplyDeleteI know bec i have been there and done that, so there.
Narcissist IMHO. Also, No offense of course, but what about editing or spell-checking, letter writers.
ReplyDeleteThere (lately) has been a real immaturity in the content of letters.
It is as if people just want to write, whatever, just to be published.
That is why I say, NARC.
I wonder about his age...
DeleteI think this writer is young but quite intelligent. The self examination is a good sign.
DeleteThat being said, I pity the love interests in his life for the next decade as he works out some kinks. Despite his awareness of his own arrogance, it still informs what he has written. Until he understand his thoughts are not singularly "special" he is going to annoy the hell out of the women he is interested in having LTR's with. As long as he sticks to one night stands and is up front about what he offers, though, I think it's all good. Cocky is attractive to the under 30 crowd and will certainly open some doors.
Why are you always so nice? He surely reads the blog and pays attention to the comments. I was hoping to piss him off enough to draw him out and have some fun. Do you think I hurt his feelings? Is that why he won't defend himself? Either I hit air with my stab, or I struck the heart too surely.
DeleteThat wasn't "nice". At least not in a sweet way. Perhaps it is my southern belle upbringing that causes me to bury my jabs in ambiguous wording.
DeleteHere is the implicit criticism: I intimated that I thought he was immature and that he will get dumped by any woman he lets himself care about over the next 10 years but I softened the blow by first defending his intelligence. Anyone who has the balls to show their dark side to anonymous strangers in a way that seeks feedback that is more than just adulation has my respect. He seems like he's on the path to transcending his obvious (and hopefully just age related narcissism)
its not that your nice Machavellianempath, its more that your so polite that criticism gets lost or compensated for
DeleteFear those that extend a handshake with a warm smile only to conceal the ready dagger in the other hand.
Delete" its more that your so polite that criticism gets lost "
DeleteIt doesn't get lost at all.
A meretricious post. Nothing of substance a propos sociopathy. Why you published it on your site is unclear.
ReplyDeleteIt's possible, but unlikely, that the writer possesses above average intelligence. I'd also put him in his early 20's. If you want to discuss machiavellianism, our own MachiavellianEmpath possesses great intelligence, along with wisdom and insight. She can probably do better than scan a couple wikipedia articles and present them as lists in an attempt to boost her own ego. Of course, she hardly seems like she needs the ego boost, unlike the subject of today's post. If he had an inkling of the traits he claims to possess, he would have begged not to have his e-mail posted.
ReplyDeleteTo put it in words he can understand, he sounds like a stupid asshole, and I'm not sure any other label is necessary. If he really is here to explore his own personality, as I am, then perhaps he truly will find enlightenment. I went to the doctor a couple months ago, and in addition to my height and weight, they took a reading of me with the stupid assholometer and got some pretty high values. They said that being a stupid asshole was bad for my health and well-being and prescribed me visits to SW to see if I could get my levels back to baseline. I'm still working on that.
There is nothing like a portable teleassholometer, is there?
DeleteYes, it uses facial recognition software and cross-references it with the International Asshole Database (IAD). Just access your neural implant through Skynet, download the IAD app, install it, and you're good to go! Just make sure your retinal HUD is activated when you try to run it or else the software crashes.
DeleteHUD and retinal? That's not an oxymoron?
DeleteIMHO, you're a narcissist that observed that arrogance isn't likable, wich is better than a oblivious narcissist.
ReplyDeleteThe "INTJ personality type"...
ReplyDeleteWhat are your personality types?
Most readers remind me of:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AymDGLkyaHo
Few music on here lately....
I'm glad M.E. got round to post this. I hoped it would be an experiment to see if I had any narcissistic traits left.
ReplyDeleteNo ego bruising and no narcissistic supply. I even found it funny that the only positive feedback so far was from "Machiavellianempath". Looks like I've grown up from my teenage self in the last few years.
Slander away, darlings.
You're not taking it personally, not defending yourself? Sir, you've just earned some respect! Do you have any stories to support your self-assessment?
Deletewhy? He is fine with how he is, why would he defend himself? He was just searching for tips to refine his Machiavellian style. It is not that the angry beasts that come here sometimes to nurture their unsatisfied bully nature.
Deleteim pretty sure that post counts as a defense.
DeleteI think I might have some more productive, non-slanderous, comments to make about your original letter and your thoughts about the dark triad and where you fall in that spectrum.
DeleteFirst I would like to start by saying I am a sub-clinical psychopath (interchangeable here with sociopath), sometimes also referred to as a successful psychopath or an almost psychopath. I have also have narcissistic personality disorder (NPD). In addition to this considerable amount of personal experience I am also a personality psychologist.
I believe you would benefit from reading the book "Almost A Psychopath" as I believe you fit into the "almost" range of psychopathy. If normal and psychopathy are placed on a scale of black and white, with normal being on the white end and psychopath being on the black end, then the almost range would make up the middle "grey" area.
You strike me as a typical NPD sufferer who also has just enough psychopathic traits as to be categorized as an almost psychopath. This means that you have just enough psychopathic traits to give yourself a certain level of self awareness that most narcissists do not posses. I believe if you were to evaluate yourself with the "dirty dozen" personality test of dark triad traits you would find that you would nearly max out the Narcissist and Machiavellian scales. While also scoring slightly above average in the Psychopathy category.
This means that you understand that people are less inclined to be manipulated if you attempt to overtly dominate them as a traditional narcissist would. You are a narcissist in an empaths clothing because you realize this gives you free rein over the flock. People are more willing to go out of there way for and do things for an individual they perceive as being kind and caring, sweet and charming. It is your psychopathic traits that allow you to think this way and your Machiavellian personality that makes you so skillful in practicing this type of deception.
But I believe you are, like I am, first and fore most a narcissist. Tempered into perfection by the other axis' of the dark triad.
That requires a lot of typing, and I'm in a city. How about a lesson learned?
ReplyDeletePerfectly satisfied people are incapable of being seduced in a sexual/romantic manner. To seduce, simply wait until your prey trusts you enough to open up about their desires (women tend to be adamant to do this, not so much men). Embody this desire subtly: lure them, satisfy it, but never all in once. Make sure the prey grows as a person along with you, make sure they're learning in some form and are aware there is more to come back and explore.
My post was either well calculated defense, or it was honest and coincidentally defended me. Debate it.
ReplyDelete"Perfectly satisfied people are incapable of being seduced in a sexual/romantic manner. To seduce, simply wait until your prey trusts you enough to open up about their desires (women tend to be adamant to do this, not so much men). Embody this desire subtly: lure them, satisfy it, but never all in once. Make sure the prey grows as a person along with you, make sure they're learning in some form and are aware there is more to come back and explore."
ReplyDeleteThis sounds like it was lifted directly from The Game. Or maybe the Pick Up Artists Bible. Yawn.
Originality, please.
More from "The art of seduction" by Robert Green.
DeleteBoth this one and "The Game" are must-read books for any man anyway.
"Originality, please."
DeleteI think I can supply some interesting originality. Here's a story for you. I was at the bar with my friends the other day and as far as I've ever been able to tell I've managed to maintain a rather demur, even demeanor. The theory being that assuming the role of narcissist in empaths clothing would give me the fullest access to their vulnerabilities. Not to use this knowledge to hurt them for the sake of hurting them but simply to be used a leverage to the most minimal extent necessary to get what I need.
So while at the bar with my friends the other day I decided to test who well my cover was working. So I cave them all the "dirty dozen" personality test to fill out. They were told to answer the questions for themselves and then to also answer all the questions for everyone else in the group based on the way they perceived them.
Basically a fun, see if your friends think your crazy, kind of experiment. When everyone was finished I totaled up their scores and evaluated them and then read them out loud to the group and explained what the scores meant. Fascinating enough the score I received were considerably lower then anyone else' in the group. While in reality my actual scores from a legitimate assessment were more than double and in some cases triple theirs.
I was throwing it right in their faces and they couldn't even tell. To them I was the most harmless innocuous person in the group. And because of that belief they were willing to comply with almost any request I could possibly make of them, within reason.
I hope that story was at least mildly entertaining and stimulating. Maybe some of you guys would be interested to see how your own friends might evaluate you with the "dirty dozen" personality test.
You must do a lot of reading of the Pick Up Artists' Bible then, darling.
ReplyDeleteThe lesson was learned the hard way. The wording from intuition. The thoughts gathered was me looking into my learned lesson.
Originality's only use is to impress a bored audience. I'm evidently here to discuss with a passive aggressive, bored audience. Less critique, more discussion, am not here to perfect skills in literature, only my methods and personality.
well as long as you are content with regurgitation of mass market seduction techniques that have been restated in installments short enough to be potty reading for FHM readers... I am glad that this has been an ego syntonic experience for you.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes- I've read it. In the spirit of "know thine enemy"- It's best to know when you are dealing with self- anointed "play-ahs" if you are the sort of woman who is bored by unoriginal, derivative individuals.
Good luck fishing in the kiddie pool.
Funny you call me a self-anointed player. I'm not particularly promiscuous at all. I go after people who interest me/challenge me/attract me. Aren't players meant to be chased? I'm the chaser 66% of the time. I think I prefer it that way too, being chased is too easy.
ReplyDeleteI chose the seduction paragraph as it was the most recent lesson I verbalized and consciously considered rather than intuitively knowing it.
Do you consider players an enemy, or at least dangerous to you? If so, are they not dangerous to you anymore?
The big danger of players, once you have suffered them once and know they, unfortunately, exist, is that they make you lose time.
ReplyDelete@ Jessi-
ReplyDeletewell stated.
@ Writer-
ReplyDeleteBeing a player is more a about operating with the singleminded purpose of consuming narcissistic supply. It's addiction to the "chase"- many players can't perform outside the context of a room lit by a computer screen and a sticky gym sock.
Your statement about not being promiscuous strikes me as more of a lack of opportunities than high standards given your willingness to break your romantic history down into thirds to share your percentage of conquesting vs being conquered.
The words "chaste by default..." come to mind.
I promise I'll never call you nice again.
DeleteSeems like you've had some bad experience with players Machavellianempath. Did one hurt you bad some time ago?
DeleteFirst, those who say they are players, are crap most of the time. And those you identify as players are too.
Then, if a seducer (the term player makes me think of morons in clubs reciting memorized lines) is skilled enough, you won't know he's one, it will just flow and you'll think "we got along very well and it just happened".
That's the paradox with them, you'll never think the best one could be one. And you'll think they're all morons because the worst ones are the most visible ones.
not really- but I am the friend who always heard horror stories from friends bc I am the one who can keep a secret. When I love someone (child, friend, husband) I do not like to see them exploited- one reason why I work with battered women (on a volunteer basis). Too many women are very sweet and open and then get crushed by men who seem to forget that they are dealing with real people. And some women never get over that wound even though the man forgets her days later.
DeleteThat being said- I don't think I am above being "played"- my fear of losing my virginity was the only thing that kept me safe until I met my husband. Lest it seem that I am pretending to be above those who succumbed to falsely spoken words of love - the only reason I escaped unscathed was my super conservative Christian background.
I agree with what you say about effective seducers- those I am more vulnerable to because they take the time to really stake out their targets. My weak spot was a man who pretended to love children- after they were also hurt I will not make that mistake again. But he was not a player. And we are talking about players here. A player is after the short term easy lay...
You are correct in picking up my sensitivity here, though. Because I have two teenage daughters this sort of behavior is on my radar because of the recent experience of one of my daughter's best friends. She is fourteen and beautiful- he is twenty and nowhere in her league intelligence wise or looks wise- but definitely knew how to "play" a young teen's ego.
What you are picking up on is maternal protectiveness.
For some reason, I thought you had 4 boys. A couple years ago I got hit on by a 15-year old girl, and she was telling stories about having sex with her boyfriend when her parents were downstairs. Whatever emotions I may lack, my ability to be creeped out is entirely intact.
DeleteIf I ever have daughters, I think I would tolerate the existence of boyfriends close to their age. If they're teens and with adults, well, that would require the purchase of a firearm. I'm not well-practiced at shooting, but I've heard your aim doesn't have to be perfect at short range with a shotgun.
ha!
Delete2 daughters (teens) 2 sons (preteen)
Here's the sad thing- it's hard to protect daughters via the shotgun method bc boyfriends aren't players- players are the ones who hook up with girls at parties, and do things like what was done to the girl in Steubenville OH (which is why I don't tend to be nice to the manchildren who seduce girls for sport)
What's hard is you can't really anticipate them and protect your daughters from them if you are a parent. If you learn about them it is only after the damage is done. Bc I don't want to indoctrinate them the way I was by making them fear that having sex will somehow taint them, I am hoping that I am helping them develop bullshit meters instead. What I always say is to not overlook the quiet/shy ones and that anyone who is more interested in their own satisfaction will have no problem posting "private" snap chat images to all of his friends.
You just have to get them through high school. Once the gossip circles break up and people get lost in the flow of college, mistakes have less devastating consequences. Oh, but I surely do not envy your job right now :P
DeleteAnon, “you'll never think the best one could be one”
DeleteThis is just at the beginning. Give them enough time and they will hang themselves. The real thing it is never as the fake thing.
Teen problems are too boring to discuss for me.
@Machiavellianempath
ReplyDeleteFor me, an opportunity is found where there is attraction. i find challenging and intriguing people attractive. Most people offer challenge, but little intrigue. Sex appeal also plays a massive part. A person can be beautiful but not have sex appeal, sex appeal exists in personality and behaviour, and looks to some extent - for me that is. I'm attracted to sex appeal, I can barely enjoy sex without it. I guess it could be said I have opportunities, just not opportunities I have interest in taking.
I don't consider myself a player for this reason. A seducer, yes - though it's not what I live for. More akin to a hobby. My seductions are "faithful" half the time, I focus on the one person and make it last a few weeks, rather than "pulling" in a few hours in a club, as that doesn't do anything for me. Flings would be the word to describe what I seek.
It is interesting you call "chasing" narcissistic supply - why do you call it this?
When you are infatuated with someone you don't know and every bit of your mental focus is drawn to winning that person over, what you are really doing is testing your own desirability. The successful chase means that you are desirable. The game of chase is mostly about ego gratification.
Deleteyeah.
DeleteI feel like the followers of SW are desperate to self diagnose. Why do you HAVE to be something? Do you have to have a diagnoses to understand yourselves? Hey, I get it. Every now and then I feel the same way. But then I realize it doesn't really matter if I can't do much about it medically. Whatever happened to realizing you're an ass hole at times for your own gain and saying, "geez, maybe I shouldn't be an ass hole so often. Maybe I should work on being a kinder, more understanding person". Just a thought. I mean after a while it gets annoying being so "deep" and interested in the whole "why do I do what I do"..... Do people want to know just to know? Or do they want to know so they can change?
ReplyDelete"Maybe I should work on being a kinder, more understanding person".
DeleteYou must be new here.
Is it that obvious? Blushing....
DeleteBecause, no, yes,yes.
ReplyDeleteAlright then.
ReplyDeleteAlso I agree with the parts that aren't questions.
DeleteA TED talk about the Dark Triad. I think he leaned towards Moe but he said curly. Nyuck nyuck Nyuck
ReplyDeleteI am about 3/4 of the way through ME's book.I really have insights into the parts of myself I threw away. I can't think of the psych word for throwing away parts of yourself but there is one.
ReplyDeleteIt is weird that I am having these encounters with the same Mal Narc I talk about. Although I am a Born Again Christian, I feel God leading me to beat her down with all that is in me. She is an Anti-Semite. This makes me able to do anything to her( verbally)
The more I decimate her and she is no match for my verbal skills and gaslighting( which I learned on here). I am driving her down to the nub and all the while I am finding my strength and my self respect.
Do tell you are also a Jewish person. You are such a collection. You really could be the most dangerous person here if not the one who definitely needs to be kept at a far distance.
DeleteYour strength and self-respect... Do you stop adoring yourself in the mirror?
Yes, I am Jewish. Why am I the most dangerous person on here. This should be good. And no, I don't adore myself. I lost most of my self esteem.
DeleteMonica you are too much.
DeleteSeriously too fucking much.
Thank you :D
DeletePersonally, I just find whoever am infatuated with to be a drug. I'm careful not to depend on the person, like I'm careful not depend on drugs. Simple logic, it's also wise not to care about drugs unless truly valuable. Haha.
ReplyDeleteI do agree that the best of seducers just do it effortlessly and have mostly been naturals. I'm no natural, but if am relaxed enough, smoothness in doing what I've accumulated feels natural, but I still have to calculate it.
Hi sw .
ReplyDeleteI took the aspie test yesterday and it said i have both nt and aspie traits. Does anyone else here get that result? Is it pretty common?
Does anyone else notice that so many of the authors of these letters from readers claim to be smart but their writing is atrocious? Just an observation.
ReplyDeleteI always feel a certain amount of sadness, when people think they are a sociopath or a high mach and want to talk about it. Why? Because it doesn't fit the picture.
ReplyDeleteA high mach will never ever talk about his inclination to the dark and a sociopath just doesn't care.
But a narcissist actually can find value in posting on this site. He can feed on admiration or revulsion.
For a high mach these kind of sites are scary, because they work towards revealing him and revealing is something he will never do. They don't want attention, they want secretiveness.
A bit of a late reply, but I agree with you here. It isn't something that really matches, at least in my experience, either. No matter if I secretly want someone to 'see' and 'understand' me, talking about high machiavellianism and any other trait that I have is practically always a no-no. The revealing part, and allowing such information to get through isn't something I enjoy. Secretiveness and staying hidden and away from attention is something I actively work on and desire.
Delete@WriterOfThisEmail
ReplyDeleteFrom your email and your responses. It seems quite evident to me that you have Narcissistic Personality Disorder with an added element of some self awareness which puts you in the almost sociopath category, as a previous poster mentioned, but your narcissism is what expresses most from your writing.
I say some self awareness whereas sociopaths have more self awareness and would recognize the tone of their email more so than it seems you are able to.
And on the topic of self awareness it is clear that neither sociopaths or empaths, as they are described on this website, have a great deal either, for the greater consciousness expands and genuine understanding of what Self is, the less one identifies with any one form of expression or identity, and the less fear there is about such things as being a victim to anyone or any personality out there. :-)