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I absolutely knew I was different when I was a child. My parents and all the "adults" I knew were emotional beings. I could not understand why they were so dramatic. I could not understand why they yelled, hugged, cried and talked about their feelings. It was bizarre to witness and I could not relate. Nor could I relate to my emotional siblings and classmates.
As an adult, I have to remind myself to hug my relatives when I see them or else they get quite cross. I comply to avoid their sad eyes, questions, and messy emotions.
I was strong willed as a child and learned to be deceptive to avoid punishment. And, of course, for the thrill of having "pulled one over" on authority figures.
I was always the schemer and the ring leader in pranks. I reveled in my ability to shock and bother others. I was always the calm, calculating one of the group. To this day, I never panic. I don't worry about social norms. Nor will I have them forced upon me by people I couldn't care less about.
Granted, there are places where I am no longer welcome. I guess those people never got the joke. Just because I thought it was funny doesn't mean they did.
I've been told by others that I am a cold person but I disagree. I can feel some emotions but usually think they are a waste of time. Who wants to float in an emotional cloud? I just want to have fun. I am the life of the party. I am a thrill seeker. Is there anything wrong with that as long as I do not physically harm others?
I learned at 2 years old not to harm things. I caught a butterfly and wanted to kill it, so I did. I stuffed it in a soda bottle and filled it with water. I watched it struggle and become still.
I didn't feel remorse about killing it but did regret that I would no longer be able to enjoy the beauty of its fluttering from flower to flower. For some reason, it seemed very important to me to remember that lesson and so I did. I may mess with your head and your heart but I will not physically harm you unless you attempt to harm me.
I had a boyfriend hit me, probably because he couldn't control me. Besides, I'm small in stature and seemed like an easy victory. I responded with a ferocity that alarmed him just enough to give me the advantage. I am very proud of the physical scars he bears from that encounter.
A message to empaths: Leave us alone and mind your own business. You cannot "fix" us and we do not desire your pity unless we can use it to our advantage. If engaged, we will win. We always do.
Cheers.
You can't believe that... You can't be such a monster as to believe that!
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So, she was a sociopath from birth? I was told it was 50% genetics and 50% environment.
ReplyDeleteonce an alien Always and alien
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's possible to "fix" anyone who resists your unsolicited "help".
ReplyDeleteI may mess with your head and your heart but I will not physically harm you unless you attempt to harm me.
ReplyDeleteSo ignorant. You do realize that damage to the head and heart disfigures just as much as physical injury, don't you?
You can't comprehend the extend of the damage you do.
Oh please, we're all past the age of 7 here, getting your feelings hurt does not do more damage than being beaten with a baseball bat. Sure emotional pain may be damaging, but being physically attacked not only gives (in some cases) permanent physical damage, but it also includes emotional damage as well. In fact some of the most daunting emotional problems stem from some physical element, whether it be something simple like a fist fight, or something more severe like rape.
DeleteAll physical damage comes with some emotional damage but emotional damage does not included physical damage, and for people who argue that emotional damage could have physical side effects, they will never be as damaging, and in many cases are self-inflicted because of their natural emotional vulnerability.
So no I don't agree with Anonymous 10:32AM that the writer is being ignorant, he or she (probably she) looked at the possible outcomes for her actions and chose the lesser of two evils. Personally I can't speak for Anonymous, but I'd take my feelings being hurt over a knife wound any day lol.
Agree.
DeleteI'd prefer neither, thank you very much.
DeleteI agree with you M.J. The only difference is that I never thought that being physically wounded could also hurt a person's feelings... that's totally new to me.
DeleteAnyway, emotional pain can be ignored, the physical pain can't be ignored most of the time... so... well.
It's like when people say they have their hearts broken, while millions of people actually have a heart disease and have died because of it. Emotions cannot be as strong as actual physical problems.
I actually suspect that when empaths use phrases like BROKEN HEARTED and MY HEAD IS SPLITTING or IT RIPPED ME OPEN-I think they are not talking metaphorically. I suspect us dysphoric maniacs and spectrum type folks do not process metaphor-and when an empath says their heart is broken they are describing how emotion feels-it does have a certain physiological impact on them. As I say its only a supposition, but the use of metaphor must have some purpose-and as we do not feel emotions in our GUT it is difficult for us to think metaphorically like empaths.
DeleteOh please, we're all past the age of 7 here, getting your feelings hurt does not do more damage than being beaten with a baseball bat.
DeleteSo a psychopath gaslights you, makes you feel like you're delusional. You become suicidal, confused. You enter a psych ward. Then, once you get out, you can't hold a job. You can't trust anyone. You are always shaky and jumpy. It takes you many years to recover from the emotional abuse. How is this less valid that recovery from a physical beating? You mentioned rape. People who are raped often do not have any physical scars at all from the experience. And yet the experience stays with them for the rest of their lives. The act of rape is emotional violence towards another person, and it leaves permanent psychological scars.
In fact, psychopaths use preexisting emotional damage in their victims to control them and victimize them further. If the emotional damage from doesn't last, how are psychopaths able to use it to their advantage?
The only reason, I guess, that you don't acknowledge the permanence of emotional damage is because you haven't looked back at your victims.
The evidence for the profound and disfiguring effect of emotional abuse is all around you, J.M.
P.S. "natural vulnerability" sounds a lot like Ted Bundy-style bullshit. Just because people are naturally emotionally vulnerable, why does that give you the right to violate them, emotionally or physically?
Anonymous 9:22am.
DeleteFirstly, the example you gave is a little extreme, considering most sociopaths don't mess someone up to the point where they are committed to a mental institution. In fact, the average sociopath does almost nothing to distinguish him or herself from the general population, in order to blend in. Unless you have a low amount of self control or deep uncontrollable desire to see others hurt in the most dramatic ways, usually the sociopath does no more damage than those overly empathic people who jump from high to lows, fighting with their spouse regularly and creating a chaotic household. The only main difference is the sociopath adds a more elegant touch, creating the same amount of drama without people often realizing something is happening
I do agree that rape does have a high emotional impact, and perhaps that was not the best example for me to use. But most emotional pain easily heals over physical pain, when we look at the average individual. Now don't get me wrong some people take emotional pain more severe than others, but when does responsibility fall on the victim? Eventually the victim needs to overcome their emotional pain, otherwise they become what? a drain on society? someone who can't work or uses up government resources because they couldn't handle a breakup? I'm not saying their emotions should not be taken into account, but there should be a limit on how much emotion is too much emotion, and when someone is simply letting themselves be the victim.
"The only reason, I guess, that you don't acknowledge the permanence of emotional damage is because you haven't looked back at your victims."
Not true, I've looked back on my "victims" but I don't see them as victims, they were companions that provided me with the stimulation I required at the time, did I possibly do things that upset them? Yes, did I lie and manipulate them so they would like me more, who doesn't lol. But if you look at the overall picture they always received more positive than negative during the relationship, and if they can't handle themselves after the relationship was terminated, that is not my problem, I did my part when it was expected of me.
Lastly, " Just because people are naturally emotionally vulnerable, why does that give you the right to violate them, emotionally or physically?"
The same reason why it's right that we sacrifice animals for food, survival. Empaths might view sociopaths as pure evil but sociopaths are just people trying to survive (for the most part, some are just fucked up like regular people). If a sociopath doesn't learn to lie and manipulate from a young age they are instead isolated from society, people call them names, tell them they are messed up, pump them full of drugs. Empath's aren't some poor victim who are preyed upon for no reason, they are one of the main reasons sociopaths develop into what they are. Things like lying and manipulation are necessary to live a somewhat normal life, it's only natural that if you start at a young age, by adulthood you are pretty good at it. Besides I'm sure you remember being a child, if you did anything weird it negatively effected your entire childhood, now imagine telling friends, parents, or teachers the thoughts of a five year old sociopath, good luck living a decent life after that. All I'm saying is from a young age (for a sociopath) it is survival of the fittest, and that's a game that he or she won't loose.
That was ironically one of the most emotional letters ive read on here. Shes crying for help, and with dominating people like that in her life i dont blame her.
ReplyDeleteGood grief! You are exactly the kind of person she was talking about when she said, "leave us alone." She does not need you jumping in and telling her how she feels.
DeleteO please, just bec you smack ur mean bf arnd a bit when he gets loud with you and you smile when he shows you the scars, it doesnt mean you's a socio.
Delete"She does not need you jumping in and telling her how she feels."
DeleteThen why did she send her life story to an advice column, if not to gain different perspectives on her situation?
Because it's fake.
DeleteBecause she felt like doing it, and that's it.
DeleteFor the amusement of others of her ilk.
DeleteEnjoyed the post today me. And I get it. It's her wiring and genetics. There could have been environmental factors that shaped, molded and contributed to how she saw her own world with in her. But we are all born, molded, and shaped by our experiences. Its her. She accepts it.
ReplyDeleteI belonged to an FASD group. The non-neurotypicals and neurotypicals thinkers are at times "in constant bickering with one another." I just think, " can't we all get along." Cant we learn each others perceptions, and strategies that work. And view it with respect and dignity. Surely we can be tolerant of one another. Might not always agree, might even frighten some, but indifferences are a good thing in my world. This blog is trying to counteract the attacks on sociopathy and educate.
Now I must change my red shoes. Lol
ReplyDeleteOh I like those superchick. You have nice ankles for that cut. I cannot really wear those kind ...unless the skirt is tina turner short. Your legs are nice and long.
Delete"If engaged, we will win. We always do." A life lived in isolation and deceit is hardly a victory.
ReplyDeleteMelissaR
Being safe from aggressions of so-called "empaths" does not make for a life lived in isolation. Nobody needs to share with obnoxious busy-bodies.
DeleteHere here, Free-Behind-My-Mask-I agree wholeheartedly...
DeleteYou always win? ROFL.
ReplyDeleteYou always win, until you meet a bigger dog. Dog.
ReplyDeleteOne of the best articles I've ever read here. Two thumbs up.
ReplyDeleteLive and let live, LEAVE us empaths alone, let us live our lives in peace. We don't want you or need you.
DeleteFrom my experience you EMAPTHS insist on the game of MAKE THE PSYCHO FEEL-and if it cannot be won you start getting antsy and arsey, freaking out because you have come across something darker...Your emotions mean you can only conceive of a couple of outcomes to the game, but spectrum nervous systems function so very differently that that we nullify your simplistic games-you know what we are like, you engage with us at your peril-and our response to emotional intimacy will probably alarm you-and serves you right for trying to infect our diamond pure universe with your tragi-comic 'feelings'.
DeleteWas responding to the blog post, 'you empaths leave us alone and mind your own business.' Basically meant to say, 'leave us alone and mind your own business.'
DeleteWhat is this about tormenting insects and thinking you need to feel empathy for them? Insects and mamals are not the same thing. But who am I talking? According to my former pychologists I score on dissocial personality disorder, however I did not get the diagnose since I am able to feel empathy.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was a kid I dismembered insects for fun. I played they were soldiers dying in war. I filled my plastic air-pool with water, and put wooden sticks in there. Then I fetched as many ants as I could and put them on the floating sticks. Now they were sailors, and they were going to war. one of the ships intercepted the other and battle broke out. After hours and hours of this, hundreds of ants were drowned and dismembered in my pool.
I used to scare my mothers new boyfriends dogs shitles. I don't know I would dare do that today. They responded to me with full fear, baring, all that stuff, showing theyr teeth and then putting theyr tales between theyr legs and flee. I didn't physically harm them, just run after them with masks and stuff. It was fun.
We used to fish when I lived in Iceland. The boys and I could fish back then down at the docks. We fished lots of fish, beat it to death or watched it gasp for air. Goddamit. Its fish, not human beings. We often dumped the dead fish behind my mothers boyfriends house. It smelled bad, but the cats loved it.
I liked to beat up and hurt people who offended me when I got older. I made a habit out of that and got into alot of trouble with the police and society in general. I beat cop once(told about that here before under the anonymous), I cut a man with a knife(he didn't get that hurt), I hve beaten up more oponents then I can remember, I was disobediant in the army(only because they were pussies), I have smugled classified medical drugs over borders(and in the end caught), I have done alo of things.
Still today, I live in society with a respectable job, and no one knows the differenc between me and anyone else.
I usually break the social norms and do not respect them. I have been shunned more often throughout life then I have been welcomed. I do not understand why others judge when I see nothing wrong with it.
I love my children, my wife, and appreciate the friends that I have. Especially if I see the individual is preceptive and noot easily fooled by norms, emotionds and bullshit. However, more often then not, these individuals score high on non-empathy and antisocial traits.
So I am a sociopath because of this? No I don't think so. I am just an naturally aggressive dominant male. I am created to hunt my prey in a world where the group I belong to needs a strong predator. Howver, society wants only lambs and shuns predators.
I agree somehow with you, being agressive and dominant doesn't make a person a sociopath (Though I am dominant and somehow agressive sometimes). Nor breaking the rules (because we all do it), what makes a person a sociopath is the mix with those traits and the lack of:empathy, guilt and shame for the person's acts. Even the female psychopaths/sociopaths differ from some traits, and it doesn't make them less sociopathic, just different. The same as having some traits doesn't make a person a sociopath.
DeleteIt is ironic as I am neither aggressive nor dominant (at least in general), yet I am a sociopath. I am non-violent and am not a criminal. I have no intention of committing violence (unless necessary for self-defense) or committing a criminal act (robbing a store or committing murder is irrational - the risk of imprisonment far outweighs any transient reward gained from the act. Or to use sociopathic-speak, it's "stupid"). Is there a lack of empathy? Yes, I have to fake it. Lack of guilt or shame for acts committed? Rarely, and to be honest I am not sure if it was either me or the mask (that may sound strange to empaths, but I am sure other sociopaths understand exactly what I mean). There is a dislike for the interpersonal and societal consequences of committing them. Of those instances it is like a flash in the pan. I am not a robot, just significantly limited as to what I can experience.
ReplyDeleteThat all being said, I am biased (interesting how empaths never admit that one). I am hyper-rational, and the few instances where I might actually feel something, it is both unwanted and frequently discarded (unless socially-appropriate or, more importantly, beneficial for blending in). Though even then I have difficulty holding onto it for more than a brief period of time. Again I am unsure if it's just the mask (I apologize if any empaths have difficulty accepting this, though again I am sure the sociopaths will get it). That is of course assuming I pull it off correctly. Sarcasm is a tricky example, especially when you apply a generalized formulaic approach to it (when X is said given Y situation/event, they were being sarcastic, therefore it was funny). One-size interpretation and response to sarcasm does not fit all situations. For example, I was once the only person in an audience to laugh at, what I discovered to my consternation, was not an attempt to be sarcastic (and therefore funny). The mask practically becomes semi-autonomous when you grow older (there is little if any delay, especially sarcasm which is usually quite simple and straightforward to recognize and respond reflexively), and when it generates that false positive, you get an awful lot of looks from the audience (and the presenters too, in this case). But I figure I accurately detect it more times than not (ie. >50%), so laughs all around.
Yet with all of this, I have a moral compass. Or as M.E. puts it, a "prosthetic" moral compass based on learned societal values. Though unlike an empath, I have to actively pull it out and work at a reading (if only it was as simple as magnetism, because that would save a lot of spent effort and the occasional misreading - morality is complicated, and I don't even adopt a religion to add additional irrationality). It's enough that you (ie. empaths) care, since as the dominant population you built the construct for mass use, so it will be used by sociopaths in an empathic society. At least to us high-functioning, non-criminal ones who have adopted the moral compass as a (surprisingly effective) societal survival tool.
By the way, in direct response to some of your concerns:
ReplyDeleteJust because you did those things in your past, doesn't make you a diagnosed sociopath. I am assuming, based on what you said, that you were "hot-headed". Sociopaths aren't prototypically hot-headed. Personally, I find no value behind the violence (I would, for example, much rather acqueisce to the cop, because it would end up as a no-positive/all-negative outcome). I should of course give a disclaimer, that I have a strong survival instinct which keeps me out of societal "trouble" (it's far better to smell like roses to even those who dig, to me it's all cost-benefit analysis). I am also not 99% prototypical in my tests as M.E. reports herself (which mostly comes from a 0 score in crime and sexual promiscuity as both areas fail my cost-benefit analysis and/or moral compass). Remember, we're cold, not hot.
One thing you note is that you love your wife and children. I assume this is genuine love. If so, then that also does not make you a prototypical sociopath. Speaking for myself, I find the empathic emotion of love to be a foreign concept to grasp. Don't get me wrong, I have studied the basics of love in psychology, but it was scientifically distilled to a clinical level (in this case I am talking about Sternberg's Triarchic Theory of Love). That I understand. It is however devoid of an instrinsically empathic "fourth" component which you evidently feel. That I don't understand. I am told from society (in conversation and popular literature/entertainment) that it has no components - it either is, or isn't. For that I am genuinely color-blind to that "color". Don't get me wrong, I don't feel any less of a person because of it. I don't secretly seek it. I simply don't care (as in not of interest - not be confused with rejection or angst). However, I would not reject an opportunity to temporarily feel it - as a novel and apparently "positive" experience, I would like to try it. Except for heartbreak, as a universally-accepted "negative" experience, I am not interested. I don't see the benefit of feeling something negative, unless it promotes something of necessity such as survival (eg. fear to prevent injury/death). Of the few times I have felt something negative (remember, we are not robots), I did not like it (we are also not sadists or masochists).
This rings true, this is what is so great about this site, that what are oppressive and alienating experiences do have analogues in the lives of others. That one is not alone on the tempest swept mountain trail. As children we use all kinds of concepts to frame our experience, and as we do not pick up the cues from those around us, the sociopath has to develop other tech to orientate themselves in their disturbed and disturbing universe-be it taking cues from movies, science fiction, horror films-(for me DC Comics and Horror and Sci-Fi where my sign posts-thus lots of self refs to being alien or a super villain of the JOKER type...this went back to the early 70s which just goes to show how very prescient we sociopaths are, having bonded with the environment rather than humans I guess its a side effect!). Its unlikely that once a sociopath has failed to bond with another human that this developmental event can be re created-so efforts should be made to make the most of the situation as it stands-the sociopathic should be approached as are, not with the empty hope that they can somehow be FIXED or psychically spayed.
ReplyDeleteGetting flashbacks all over again...
ReplyDeletethat makes sense, thanks for explaining. It's impossible to understand unless you know what your dealing with. Let's say your a couple years behind, and you just learned all this stuff in the last few months... where as you've known all along. Please allow some 'catch up time', and time to educate oneself. it's starting to make sense. thanks for your patience. don't want to change you. want to accept you as you are. and treat you the best i can now that i understand what's going on a little better.
ReplyDeleteI have no problems sharing. Education is good. If you have questions, feel free to ask. I can not promise what you might hear will make you feel comfortable sometimes, but I can share an honest understanding from the perspective of a sociopath.
ReplyDeleteAt least a non-violent, non-criminal one. Just remember that not everything I perceive is what all other sociopaths perceive. There are sociopaths who are violent and/or criminal, and their responses may differ. To put simply, not all sociopaths are made equal.
I'm starting to think I may actually be a sociopath. Recently, I've been in turmoil with my relationship with my fiancee. And the more we fight, the less I care. Well, actually, I feel more like I care that I'm losing my grip over her. I can definitely say I felt emotion with her when I first met. But now nothing phases me, especially since we moved in. I feel my personal resources draining (as I pay for everything) even though I make more than enough for monthly spending. Sex doesn't even entice me.
ReplyDeleteNow let me get to the point, relating to the thread that kind of leads to this. I had also grown up feeling different, Hell, being diagnosed as "different" from the age of three. Note, I don't think much of psychology or psychiatric diagnoses, for instance, Affluenza, ...definitely landed a critical hit of absurdity to clinical psychology. So I grew up questioning how I could fit in, which turned into blending after a while, after getting beat up by kids just from being from another city. That definitely was the first straw. I had rage from it, but my mother was the balancing act for me, taught me the importance of controlling my rage and scoffing at the children who were..hmm...childishly aggressive. I on the other hand had the advantage of being taught self control.
It didn't stop there, high school came about, same shit different situations. Except, one point I snapped at a dude two times my size, grabbed his collar and slammed him against a locker and told him "Stop fucking with me. Either be my friend or mind your business". Needless to say, we associate today.
College was a dream, no issues, just lots of women, well except one. We dated for a while, she fucked me over twice (shame on me) then on my 21st birthday, I fucked her passionately then said "I'm leaving you" when we finished. I definitely got my non-violent point of rage across.
After that, I failed out of college, moved to a city and worked my way from 15k to a 40k+ gig (might classify me as high functioning?). In the job climb, I had two events, one I got jumped by for guys on the way to mourn at the bar 30 minutes after receiving after news of my mother's fiancee's death to cancer (i was still emphatic at that time) . They'll have a good 20 years to think their stupidity over.
Secondly, there was there was the Neanderthal boss, who I believe is to stupid to be a sociopath, but had the audacity to tell me I'm not working based on morning statistics, when I was in an internal company interview all morning. he wasn't bright, but refused to be wrong even when logical deduction and physical evidence were presented. This was intellectually painful and infuriating.
Now my question, do you think the eventual transition to sociopath is a gradual process for people from childhood up, or initially programmed? I read a comment saying it's 50/50 bio/env. I feel that my final ability to care ended at my last job, and since then , these blending and adapting skills I've learned over the years bad experiences have bolstered extremely. I also wonder, was I in denial years ago about being a sociopath, because I loved the gratification of playing games in college after that chick fucked me over, but it was on off.
If you define yourselves as sociopaths then they are needy, petty people trying to prove themselves to others.
ReplyDeleteLike few have pointed out here already, there's suprisingly lot of emotion in the comments from people who supposedly don't have lot emotion to give.
Maybe, just maybe, real sociopaths aren't writing here but instead some special snow flakes.
Agreed
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