From a reader:
Hi, it's interesting to get a sociopath take on reality. I notice you try to 'justify' the sociopaths view of the world and this is often both thought-provoking and helpful.
However, is the socio take on the world false?
I'm interested in 'spirituality' and (as I think you've discussed before) many people who experience enlightenment believe the self to be an illusion. However, when they do experience enlightenment they all say they feel extremely high affinity for all life and inanimate objects. This is the polar opposite of a socio of course. If enlightenment reveals the truth, then the truth is we ought to have a very high degree of affinity for others. Since socio's have low or no affinity doesn't that suggest the way socios see the world is false? Possibly even somewhat animalistic and sub-human? (Btw I believe non-violent socio's ought to be tolerated and encouraged to be as open and honest as possible about themselves, as you do on your blog).
My response:
Yes, I think I sort of agree with you. The way that Buddhists seem to lose self in enlightenment is to realize the truth -- that they are just like everyone else, a meaningless spec that has fooled itself into believing that it controls its destiny. The way sociopaths seem to lose their sense of self is to be put in situations at a young age in which they see a sense of self (and accompanying emotions and loss of control) as a liability, and they are all too willing to abandon it. Sociopaths still have self, they just don't acknowledge it and give it meaning, the way they don't really acknowledge or give their emotions meaning. So yes, I would say that it is a false view of the world.
Hi, it's interesting to get a sociopath take on reality. I notice you try to 'justify' the sociopaths view of the world and this is often both thought-provoking and helpful.
However, is the socio take on the world false?
I'm interested in 'spirituality' and (as I think you've discussed before) many people who experience enlightenment believe the self to be an illusion. However, when they do experience enlightenment they all say they feel extremely high affinity for all life and inanimate objects. This is the polar opposite of a socio of course. If enlightenment reveals the truth, then the truth is we ought to have a very high degree of affinity for others. Since socio's have low or no affinity doesn't that suggest the way socios see the world is false? Possibly even somewhat animalistic and sub-human? (Btw I believe non-violent socio's ought to be tolerated and encouraged to be as open and honest as possible about themselves, as you do on your blog).
My response:
Yes, I think I sort of agree with you. The way that Buddhists seem to lose self in enlightenment is to realize the truth -- that they are just like everyone else, a meaningless spec that has fooled itself into believing that it controls its destiny. The way sociopaths seem to lose their sense of self is to be put in situations at a young age in which they see a sense of self (and accompanying emotions and loss of control) as a liability, and they are all too willing to abandon it. Sociopaths still have self, they just don't acknowledge it and give it meaning, the way they don't really acknowledge or give their emotions meaning. So yes, I would say that it is a false view of the world.
Mankind and God have been estranged from each other. This is because of
ReplyDeleteman's sinful nature.
Man thinks that God doesn't care for Him, or that God is a Sadist. This is untrue,
but a rift DID occur. The relationship between humanity and God, is something like a child and an absent parent. The parent sends the child to a far off boarding
school. He is remote and has sparotic contact with the child. The child can't comprehend the motives of the parent and becomes increasingly bitter. The
child begins to hate the parent.
Mankind and God would never repair the rift except for one thing: God Himself
incarnated into a human body, and subjected Himself to ALL the hardships that
human beings undergo. You can't say that God didn't debase Himself when He
became a human being. Utter majesty to total contempt is something that none
of us human beings have ever undergone. Christ was God's peace offering to man, and the only hope for reconcillation between God and mankind. God didn't
stand on ritual. He made the first move and humbled himself. So we must
humble ourselves and accept his peace offering of Christ.
Anonymous, and well you should keep yourself anonymous, the stupidity and ignorance of your comment stretches all possible credulity. There is absolutely no empirical evidence for the existence of the entity you call "God." If God existed, which it does not, it would be an entity of surpassing evil, the ultimate sociopath in the universe.
DeleteFor one thing, your "God" created human beings. If we are seriously flawed, a credible supposition, who is to blame but the maker itself. So then it fixed the problem not by wiping out the mistake (well, there's a really stupid story called Noah, about "God" trying to fix it's mistake by drowning everyone and then botching the job.What a complete sociopath idiot is your beloved "God." Fortunately, we are now up to about 20% of the population realize 1) God does not exist (no matter how much and how earnestly you proclaim it) and 2) we are on our own. Our fate is in our own hands. Trying growing up, OK?
You sound like an edgy teenager. Also, if you really did have an understanding of sociopaths or ASPD in general, you would understand that being a sociopath or having ASPD does not define someone as "evil". Furthermore, good and evil don't even exist. They're just labels that people throw on things they perceive as beneficial or harmful to themselves. Before you attack someone else's religious beliefs, maybe you should take your own advice, and try growing up, OK?
DeleteI've never understood why people insist on viewing God as a human being, with human emotions, and human rationality/ reasoning. People try to understand God as if He actually was the old man with a long white beard, wearing a toga. A quote which I like but can't seen to recall ho it was from: "What is folly to men is wisdom to God, and what is folly to God is wisdom to men."
DeleteHi Til,
DeleteI've long found the anthropomorphism of god a little silly - and I'm agnostic! If there really is a "supreme being," (not being snarky - just don't have better words), I find it difficult to believe that their experience if anything like ours.
I don't know that I agree that a sociopath's world view is false - it is different from the majority of other humans, to be sure. But how is my experience any less valid than the experience of a color blind person? Does that make people with synesthesia "super human?"
...and, what makes "affinity for others," equivalent to "truth?"
My thoughts exactly... I posted a bit more about my opinion lower down the page.
DeleteHLHaller, one agnostic speaking to another -- my problem is not that a supreme being would have an experience that is different from ours, but rather that supposing such a supreme being existed, that they would have experience at all -- because experience requires an identity separate from the rest, and that separateness called "maya" is an illusion...
Deletefor no particular reason I post a poem by Oscar Wilde
“Yet each man kills the thing he loves,
By each let this be heard,
Some do it with a bitter look,
Some with a flattering word,
The coward does it with a kiss,
The brave man with a sword!
Some kill their love when they are young,
And some when they are old;
Some strangle with the hands of Lust,
Some with the hands of Gold:
The kindest use a knife, because
The dead so soon grow cold.
Some love too little, some too long,
Some sell, and others buy;
Some do the deed with many tears,
And some without a sigh:
For each man kills the thing he loves,
Yet each man does not die.”
And here's where I run into what I call the recursion problem: what context does that "entity" exist in? If you buy into what physics is saying today, reality is looking more and more like an illusion. I have long enjoyed the dance of physics and philosophy in trying to explain what we experience...maybe this is where the Maya Illusion and physics bump into each other.
DeleteMy reasons for identifying as agnostic are 1) I have found in myself little capacity for faith - I just don't get it. A sort of color blindness maybe. 2) to me it's a lot more interesting than atheism - it's asking and considering the questions that I find interesting. 3) I am generally suspicious of people claiming to "know the truth." As Carl Sagan said, "extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." And, again, what is truth anyway?
But I do enjoy the conversation and I am mindful that "I don't know shit." 8)~
HL, I'm more or less where you are on this. I guess you are familiar of the creation myths related to Maya, the goddess of illusion. But these are human myths, not the supreme beings myths. Who created Maya?
Delete"I am generally suspicious of people claiming to "know the truth."" Me too. That's why I am not an atheist too. You may be familiar with unprovability theorums, how certain things cannot be proved or disproved within any logical system... So a supreme being cannot be excluded by science or logic either -- well that's my pov.
There are not too many people I could find who would care to read or understand what I just wrote. Lol.
why are we like that. why we became like this and WHY don't we feel the need to change?
ReplyDelete(we, socios.)
We are what we are. Deal with it. Don't feel like changing? Does a black widow spider feel like changing? Does a scorpion feel like changing. Anonymous 1 or 2 or whatever, it's up to you to take responsibility. Either you feel like being a sociopath or you don't. Don't blame God. Take responsibility for yourself.
Deletei AM responsible. i'm not talking about "god" here. i'm talking about logic. reasoning. decisions. needs. i'm wondering why is it that we CHOSE to be like this. as a psychological question if y will.
Deleteit's just that, if we really are mistaking, why don't we even consider to be shiny and everything? i DON'T WANT to change. i'm ok with what i am and i'm taking advantage of it. by the way, i'm tessa i forgot to right my name. i'm not the same anonymous up there.
Tessa, why do you think socios "CHOSE to be like this" or in fact anyone chooses to be who they are? Most people do not change in any fundamental way unless they are confronted with a crisis in their life and they realize that they can have a choice. I don't think choice is exercised often at all, even if it is a potential.
Delete@Tessa,
DeleteHow are you taking advantage of it? Can you be more specific?
i noticed, by time, that we mostly "choose" how to feel. that's why we ,socios, can choose not to have feelings because of our needs. but anyway, it's boring me, lest's drop it.
Delete@ empath: yes. it's pretty obvious. i love to focus on things that get all my attention, so i can have passion for what i work on. i can steal things so when it's easier to just pick sth up i can. i can look at people and see through them so i know wut they're good at, so i'm great with leadership and management. and i consider being tired and hungry a weakness (when it makes y do your work less efficiently) so i never let it control me, i can be ok with those (or being sick).
Deletei can go on and on.
you all talk about our abilities like.. y know, like y all say ok we can manipulate so, we do it, because it makes us feel better. or we can steal so we do it because it makes us feel better. you're all still talking about "Feelings". but y can "actually use" your abilities to be the best. for "actual power". not these little things that gives us power, but ACTUAL POWER.
so, there comes another question, was it like this from the moment we were born, or did we tried not to feel or chose to not to feel and our brain just changed because of that. (there are some kind of fish, that just because they live in darkness, they lose their ability to see, they become blind.just because they don't use their eyes, they become blind)
DeletePsychopathic traits have genetic and environmental influences.
DeleteTaylor, J., Loney, B. R., Bobadilla, L., Iacono, W. G., & McGue, M.(2003). Genetic and environmental influences on psychopathy trait dimensions in a community sample of male twins. Journal of Abnormal Child Psychology, 31, 633–645.
It's hard to tell, but so far my goal of destroying this web site does seem to be gaining traction. Is my intent futile or feasible? Admirable or disgusting? OK, nobody else post a comment today and then we will know we are getting somewhere.
ReplyDeleteRA your so funny. You make me laugh. And whenever I come onto this site I do enjoy your stories that I look over at times. I appreciate you. I appreciate what comes with age a lot. I've always had a thing for the older generation. And I do listen when I check in. Sometimes I don't always know how to respond because I kinda suck at the whole writing stuff. But I don't think this site will shut down. Everyone will miss everyone's sarcasm around here.
DeleteMaybe this site needs to have more tolerance with its members. We come from different walks of all kinds. And everyone of us just need to embrace diversity and differences. Yes I'm preaching to myself too. Have a good day everyone.
RA, there's that handy scroll feature on the computer...
Deleteno one should even think about closing this site. it really is our WORLD. it's like another planet where everyone is a sociopath. we're all wizards and this is our hogwarts.
DeleteTessa, I am not a sociopath. Yet i feel quite at him on this site. It took me over 3 years to understand and accept sociopathy. It is next to impossible to talk with friends and family about it without feeling misunderstood. Being exposed to a sociopath that takes a special interest in you can be life changing. A paradigm shift. Sharing thoughts on this site is in some ways reassuring. This is not. A figment of your imagination. Hogwarts does exist.
Delete.. Quite at home...
Delete:)
DeleteI too get great value out of this site. For me, it really is as I've mentioned before, a sort of "AA" meeting. A place where my thoughts and processes are not unfamiliar to others - it's unique for me and I would miss it.
DeleteBut, I also now know better who and what I am and that there are others out there and what to look for. Again, I am grateful to ME for this site and conversation and I just as soon not see it go anywhere -
Sorry for the crappy punctuation - coffee is still kicking in...
DeleteCan't say I understand sociopathy. I wonder if sociopaths understand themselves in general better than 'normatives' or people with other personality disorders do. I'm learning a bit, and the contrast and similarities help to understand myself as well as other people better. Maybe appreciate is somehow better than understand. People who encounter sociopaths or similar personalities in their life often run to the internet, because those around them have little experience. The first things one finds is information on the most malignant sorts. Life is more complicated than that though. There is not just one type of sociopath just as there is not one type of normative...
DeleteI feel so empty and void today. It seems like when I fail to gain advantage over others i quickly lose interest in the world... in order to fix it i always have to find other ways of getting advantage or finding people whose my skills in manipulating them are effectice. Does anyone feels or does the same like me here?
ReplyDeleteYou might enjoy this. Good video. Give up on power to gain advantage over others and be free. I have a Ted talk app on my phone. You might find it to be valuable to you. Really enjoyed this video while driving.
Deletehttp://www.ted.com/talks/zak_ebrahim_i_am_the_son_of_a_terrorist_here_s_how_i_chose_peace?language=en
If there was a "socioworld" folks could buy ticktets to ride rollercoasters in, the main attraction would be "the empty chamber", -THE VOID, FOLKS!, and the will-driven pony-attraction. Some wills include country & apple pie, other wills look for chaos. Simple as that, just like in the empath world. To make socios some kind of separate species is not correct. Psychopathy in itself is not a serial killer, hitman & sadist, isn´t that the main lesson taught in this establishment? The void and the pony show..
ReplyDeleteI think there is a problem with the question. It is an assumption that in Life there is an ultimate Truth and falsehood. Enlightenment and the spiritual connectedness can be broken down to a biochemical reaction in the brain, dopamine receptors firing during the meditation process. Yes this gives a stronger sense of affinity to all things, but what objective all pervading Truth does it validate if its just a consequence of a chemical reaction, like any other drug. To say Our view is a false one buys into this notion of Ultimate Truth. Assumption upon assumption. There is no All knowing All seeing All powerful God. There is no intrinsic meaning to Life the Universe and Everything.
ReplyDeleteThe question doesn't require ultimate truth. What is true is what most people regard as true. For instance if I wrote that I had been to Mars and back in 2 days, most people would regard that as false. Otherwise no one can have an intelligent discussion.
ReplyDeleteJust my opinion but, I don't think the sociopath's way of looking at the world is flawed. You say enlightenment lead to an affinity towards pretty much everything but, 1) who is to say that that is true enlightenment? 2) who is to say that that's is the only enlightenment? 3) who is to say that there is only one truth? The only truth is that we live, we experience, we die, whether that is as builders of our own fate, as lab projects with predestined conclusions, or as tiny specs in a universe full of millions of random possible accident that just keep swimming to see where we will eventually end up.
ReplyDeleteDesperate to find a reason for being, we've created and along millenniums have distorted the true identity of God into countless piece of trash (pardon my French) worthless concepts that try to depict the unfathomable. Bloated with greed, ambition, arrogance, and stupidity, humans have grouped up into thousands of posses each claiming to know the "Truth". The only "Truth" they know though is the crap they've come up with to justify their actions, to gain prestige and raise themselves to the top of the food chain, and to brainwash sheep into kindly and gladly following along with them and exalting them for being the geniuses who've guided them towards the true righteous path. For "Truth" and "Righteousness" they act in the most atrocious ways but, it's okay, it's what the Old Man with the long beard and the robe would want us to do, we'll be rewarded. By claiming to be the sole possessors of truth and wisdom, they've created a protection barrier around them, one that pardons them for anything and everything they do, a barrier that most humans stand in front as guards because allowing it to be destroyed would mean admitting that for millenniums we've been acting in the most foolish of ways, and God help us we will gouge our eyes out before choosing to open them and observe what really is going on, admitting our faults, and fixing our ways.
So, claiming that "enlightenment" brings us to the Truth, I find that extremely naive and arrogant. With so many wisdoms, truths, and promises lying around the streets, being blown around in every direction, like plastic bags being kicked into the wind, excuse me if I think that they mean jack shit. Being one in a million (or even trillions) makes you just as worthless as the other 999,999 one in a millions. Being THE ONE might have meant something, if there weren't so many fucking THE ONES going around. It's almost like watching The Matrix, except that the chosen one is every fucking Agent Smith clone that you see.
Now, while I don't believe that enlightenments lead to truth, I do think that they lead to some sort of understanding. Then again understanding is relative, I can say that I understand the formula for the circumference of a circle but, if I don't know the reason for the mathematics behind it and the use of Pi, do I really understand anything? All I know is what I see, what I get from the information provided but, I don't really know anything about the formula except that it gives me an answer I need. I think that claiming to be enlightened is the same. While it doesn't give you insight on the universe, it does give you insight on your own mind, which become partly intertwined with the minds of people you meet in your life time (you pick something (info) up from everything you perceive). Understanding how your own mind (by mind I do not mean brain) functions, can help understand and help you better manage your own relationship with everything you encounter. Only thing is though, just because you understand yourself better doesn't mean that you understand the way the universe (or anything else for that matter) works any better than you did before. Calling your self enlightened because you have "understood" that everything is just an illusion, and that therefore nothing really exists, is equivalent to me calling myself a sage because I've "understood" that even if everything is an illusion and therefore doesn't exist, the mere fact that I can experience it from a different perspective than everyone else I'm surrounded by makes me real, and mean I exist.
DeleteBack to my point, I don't think that the sociopath's view of the world is flawed. While others who feel enlightened have noticed that they've acquired an affinity for everything which created a sense of oneness, I with my sociopath views and lack of affinity for almost everything have built a different relationship with my surrounding. Instead feeling at one with everything because I like them, I feel at peace with everything. The turbulent, passionate (if I understand correctly) feeling of love ins't present, what's left is a stagnant feeling of appreciation for what it is. I see a flower, I observe it, I notice it's healthy parts and it's sick parts, it's bright parts and it's dull parts, and no feelings boil in me, just a calm, peaceful, appreciation of the flower and it's beauty. Not sure if I'm expressing myself in clear way that would allow you to understand or imagine what I mean but, that's pretty much the only way I can think of wording what I mean.
So, hope no one felt too insulted by my words... If so... whoops. Anyways, all in all and my final point. People assume they know things about the nature of an infinitely vast universe (or even just the perceivable universe), and hold to their theories as the truth that is the anchor of their lives. They make it the center of their universe, and some even forget that they are allowed to build thing around that center. So focused on such unimportant (in comparison to other aspects of their lives) they forget about or neglect everything that does not relate to it. Whether God created us or whether the universe crapped us out of nowhere, why are we more concerned about never ending questions than we are about living peaceful, happy, loving lives. Maybe I'm the crazy one but, I think humanity needs to check their priorities and put them in the correct order.
Again... just my opinion, I'm not claiming to know more than anyone. A blind man attempting to guide blind men only results in everyone deep in a pit.
DeleteTii, I laughed out loud and mused long after reading your post. You are right that a working knowledge of the truth is about all we have. However, what's left is not a stagnant feeling. If I may presume. The peaceful feeling you express of the flower is not a void. It sounds like the feeling of simply being. The flower.
DeleteJune
You, my friend, are a wise and worthy person. Would that there were more people like you.
DeleteIt's time for the story of the frog and the scorpion. I saw scorpions and vultures on my uncle's ranch in the California desert when I was eleven years old. They had no wisdom to convey. As one of the thousands (if not millions) of anonymii hanging out at this web site said earlier today, "There is no All knowing All seeing All powerful God. There is no intrinsic meaning to Life the Universe and Everything." Bingo. We just are. As my grasp on reality is rather tenuous I sometimes start out my day by contemplating "The Is ness of Existence." I exist. Each day, I wake up, look out my window at the trees on our forest, feed our chickens some weeds, worms, and bugs (yum! yum!) and trudge on. I am pretty sure I exist, though I am not sure what I am.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, one of the earliest sociopath stories in human legend.
A frog and a scorpion are sitting on the bank of a stream. The scorpion says to the frog, "Brother frog, I want to cross the stream. I can't swim. Please let me jump on your back and ride safely across."
The frog sensibly replies, "Oh, no, Mr. Scorpion. I am afraid of your terrible stinger. If I let you jump on my back, you will sting me and kill me!"
"Oh, no," replies the scorpion. "That would do us no good whatsoever. You are useful to me, so I will not harm you. Please, carry me across the stream."
The scorpion, being a sociopath, had great charm and persuasiveness. Despite its sensible distrust, eventually the frog let itself be sweet talked into carrying the scorpion across the stream. Half way across, the scorpion raised its tail and plunged it deep into the frog's back!
"As the frog felt consciousness fading, it managed one last cry of outrage and despair. "You fool! Why did you do that? Now we will both die!"
As they both sank into the stream, the scorpion said, "I can't help it. It's my nature to sting"
I have no idea if this mythical tale (not an Aesop's Fable but perhaps even older from maybe India) has any relevance to anyone here. Has anybody here ever harmed anyone to your own harm with no gain, just because it's your nature to be destructive?
I can't tell if I am succeeding in destroying this web site. Maybe there will be no post tomorrow. Maybe there will be no posts tomorrow. Maybe there will be no sociopaths tomorrow.
...
Deletewhy are y doing this?
I'm reading this blog because I'm thinking of incorporating a section of sociopathy/psycopathy to a writing course that I'm teaching in the Spring. I have to say that you all are fantastic writers, not only in style but in content. There is such a clear sense that you are thinking about what you are thinking (metacognition), something that I almost never can get my students to do.
ReplyDeleteIt seems to be that there is a correlation between exceptional intelligence and sociopathy. Is this true? Has anyone come across a "clueless' sociopathy for lack of a better word?
Clueless socios?
DeleteA few perhaps on this site, but relatively speaking not many post here over time. Whether or not all voices are individual is not for me to say: They are all very interesting. In that, as a student, as am I, you are right.
So much alienation and suffering appears here, dressed up to kill. It's hard to watch. Here or anywhere. But this diffused hatred and alienation is everywhere -- usually invisible, inside people's heads instead of on the internet. But what can we, animal or human do?
It's a dog-eat-dog world, after all. I don't, won't ever live that droll Darwinism.
I will at least try to do good. I admit to often spouting judgments on those who, because they are either extremely rich or addicted, insist on lying, cheating, manipulating. But I do realize that they suffer, too. From being born to their parents, social status, geography, education and environment. How can I or anyone judge the confluence of genes with environment?
Metacognition is normal for likely 65% of all humans, I'd imagine. Even the dumb ones know they are thinking how to con the guy who pulls into their failing enterprise.
Still. The birds do sing. Even crows.
June
How many alters did I count now? 14. Keeps getting more interesting. Real cute. And you pretend you can't spell in one of them. Hmm I wonder why that is? Swaeets. Your alters are so flippen cute I can't help but to chime in and read some of them. Welcome...welcome to the new peeps.... you do keep this site real interesting. Seriously, I'm smiling just how precious you are to me, and I enjoy all your personalities. I just can't let you go just yet. Your way too smart and a little tipsy, ;) just how I like them. I mean that. I like you. :-) You keep it fun. Acceptance you know. Have you met all the others (the alters)? I hope your a nice one that likes to play a little, no bullying ya know.
ReplyDeleteBut life's all about intelligent conversation to the "alter women." Anything else, you're in for a real treat. She likes to offer me dishes with poo. So pull up your chair, pop some popcorn with the poo lady Sociopath World and enjoy! It's Friday, I need my entertainment. Give it to me please. ;)
P.S. Can I start requesting which ones come out. Dot on dots was real sweet, even Lala. I liked them both. Some others were a bit fiesty too. I like fiesty, fiesty is the bong...but bully. No. Grr.
I think im going to order poo's cookbook. It looks real good( her dishes.) LMFAO
Anon, if you are serious I'd suggest you choose a pseudonym when you post. Use the name/url option just above anonymous. Many people just skip over anon posts...
ReplyDeleteAbout the correlation you are noticing. The demographics of socios who visit this site is wholly different than the demographics of socios in general. For instance low functioning socios who end up in jail are much less likely to be here than high functioning ones. Also not everyone here is a socio.
"Also not everyone here is a socio."
DeleteDefinitely. We are here to learn.
June
Since socio's have low or no affinity doesn't that suggest the way socios see the world is false? Possibly even somewhat animalistic and sub-human?
ReplyDeleteI do not agree. All creatures feel the urge to defend or kill those who threaten them in some way. We are beast-flesh infused with spirit, like any animal, after all. It's up to us to permeate our flesh with the spirit that loves and reveres all life. In any form that life takes. Life is precious, I do believe. That's why I only kill spiders that invade my house and bite me in my sleep. Those spiders who live outdoors are blessed by their function, which is to keep flies and other vermin under control, from overwhelming the environment.
I respect them for that.
June
good morning gentle posters - early rising empath here with a topic i'd love to get a socio's perspective on, along the same vein as spirituality i guess. it's a triggering topic, so, you know, TRIGGER WARNING. you've been warned!
ReplyDeleteok so my question to all existential leaning socio folk willing to go there is in how you contextualize suicide. not the suicide of any specific person in relation to you, but more generally what, if any judgments or opinions you may have about it as the act of a person who is for whatever reason no longer wishing to exist. like, do you think of it as weak or problematic socially or taboo or not particularly shocking? it's one of those shock words, and after the recent death of robin williams and subsequent news and op-ed discussions, it's an act that seems to almost demand an opinion - people mourn or are outraged or whatever. again, apologies for the dark tangential topic query, but yes, so curious as to your two cents. Thanks!
HI, MMM
DeletePersonally, I don't think suicide is right nor wrong. Suicide is when the suffering surpasses regular pain. No hope. Why is it wrong.... Its just very misunderstood. When R.W. took his life, I thought " why would anyone want the man to suffer any longer than he did." He suffered for decades upon decades. Suicide is never a selfish act, they actually perceive ( the one committing the act) that life is better off without them. My grandfather committed suicide at age 73. It was events of trigger after trigger with him. I wish I could have been there for him, rewind the script, totally rewind, I was young, but his life remains a huge legacy for me. Always will. I'm probably guessing he was borderline/or bipolar 2 maybe even more so bipolar 3 than two with borderline. Left untreated. Not knowing your triggers or cycles can leave one exposed. Back then no one ever talked about it. I wish he just moved back to Canada with us, but Italy was his home. He tried Canada once, loved it over here, , but my Nana missed home too much. When she got extremely I'll, he hung himself. :( :(
If you are suicidal call the help lines. You might feel one way for a very long time, but there's also seasons of much relief. I don't know you but I miss my grandfather all the time. :-)
Suicide is not weak to answer your question. But I could never tell anyone to do this. If suffering has surpassed ones own pain threshold, there are many support groups out there. But again it's not for me to judge. Hugs X If this is you I'm so sorry your going through a tough time.
And when I mentioned up above about "no hope." I mean the rose coloured glasses have been misplaced, the mind is a pool of suffering, and to swim out of it might take work and time, it's just perceived as no hope in one's own mind. The life worth living has become unmanageable to them. So I look at it with much compassion. That's why support groups should be put to good use if one is feeling this way. Build on positive self care and emotions. Exhaust all of your options. Because in a year or two things might look very differently for them. :-)
DeleteDear "Reader,"
ReplyDeleteThe hubris and illogic that pervades your argument would be amusing were it not so contemptible.
First of all, there is no need to "justify" something that is. The sociopathic view of the world exists, therefore it is justified. One could as well speak of "justifying" gravity or your cat. If you are speaking of trying to justify the actions taken by sociopaths based on that world view, this is yet another thing altogether. For is this not what all humanity seeks to do? Everyone from Gandhi to Hitler to your neighbor's two-year-old child seeks to justify their actions. So, were your statement true, this would actually serve to liken sociopaths to their more empathetic counterparts, which, as we know, is not the case.
Next, I find your elitist attitude quite appalling. It is not for you to "tolerate" another human being. This statement actually reveals your intolerance on level with such statements as "I'm ok with gay people as long as they don't do that stuff around me" or "She's done a really good job for a woman."
Now for the main course. Your assumption of the definition of enlightenment, gleaned from the ever-erroneous "they" and the unspecific "many people" is laughable at best, or shall I address you as "Yogi"? Do not pretend to knowledge you do not have. Let us, instead, seek that knowledge from those who have attained or have spent years, if not decades, in the sole endeavor of seeking this knowledge. Yogacara, one influential school of Buddhist philosophy, defines "enlightenment" (actually a western perversion of the eastern concept of continual awakening) as the mind returning "to its original condition of non-attachment, non-discrimination and non-duality," which is quite different from what you suppose it to be. The Four Noble Truths of early Buddhist schools are ways to express the "fundamental Buddhist truth of the recognition of craving and its cessation" (my emphasis).
Since it would seem that abandoning a sense of self is at least one path to enlightenment, who better than those who are already disconnected from many of these "cravings" to achieve actual enlightenment? In fact, one could say that sociopaths have already naturally achieved at least one stage of enlightenment. Now, I have no doubt that you could find an example of enlightenment that supports your statement, but don't suppose that it is the only and true definition.
Following on this path, let's apply actual logic to the argument you present. It would go something like this. Fact 1: Some paths to enlightenment and a true world view (a falsely conflated relationship, by the way) include an "affinity for all life and inanimate objects." (We've already established that it's not "all" paths as you believe.) Fact 2: No sociopaths have an "affinity for all life and inanimate objects." (For the sake of brevity, I'll assume Fact 2 is true, although it is patently and obviously false.) Conclusion: Therefore, no sociopaths have a true world view. If you can't see the flaw in that logic, you've just proven my point about yourself.
Lastly, if the definition of attaining a true world view is attaining enlightenment, then only a minuscule portion of the population who, through decades of meditation and study have achieved such, have a true world view (this quite obviously doesn't include you). Therefore, why should I listen to you? Or why should any of us even bother, as we are all obviously not in that category. For that matter, I'd like you to introduce me to these "many people" who you say have achieved enlightenment, because I would be willing to bet, by the simple fact that they are making such statements, that they are far from it.
uuug you know when you like, KNOW that "going there" is WAY POINTLESS and self-satisfying - like why WHY go there when there's like an infinite selection of gnarly free porn online these days one can self-satisfy with? A pornicopia of porn that will fill that bored, existential lull when nothing is happening on your facebook page and you still have 2 hours to kill before clocking out. And the meta but not ironic, meta but more so than yours solipsism k-hole feeling rears its ugly little head, and you know reading blogs about olivia pope doesn't make you real, you're not real, but you are real, you, REAL. and that brief UN-REALNESS you just felt, its left you jonesing for something, something MEANINGFUL AND WORTHY to remind you of how you're just naturally wittier and sexier and right-er than nearly anyone else, maybe everyone else ever. Like I'm talking GRITTY, fucking newly discovered 1920's peephole dungeon porn is yours for the taking, it wants you to consume it, and on top of all that this LIBRARY OF FUCKING CONGRESS OF PORN never fails to leave you with that self-satisfied lazy afterglow where you were looking for, it BEGS you to let it watch you smoke mentholated cigarettes and sip black coffee and pout about a small snag in your tights WHILE IT ENTHUSIASTICALLY muses right along with you about HOW AWESOME it must be to be of those few boys who've GOTTEN TO FUCK YOU, BECAUSE FUCKING YOU MUST BE SO BALLS-NUMBINGLY HOT? and yes, female. and yes, i should probably stop watching scandal marathon style, it does make me scream some thoughts. for effect.
DeleteBUT BACK TO ORIGINAL, SELF-SATISFYING DESIRE to call some person posting some "i-possess-i-mean-enjoy-no-wait-i-mean-i-maintain-control-over-a-THESARUS" bullshitting mofo on their ... well, i've read and re-read and swear to god (or buddah, or allah, 'sup god dudes) that I WANT TO HEAR YOU! It pains me to think about you, somewhere out there, all riled-up and excited and "BOOYEAH" it must have felt to fucking SERVE THAT LETTER AUTHOR LADY LOGIC BOOK STYLE! like, pffft, with all her silly "questions" and assumptions and inappropriate use of "quote marks" on the word "JUSTIFY" - FUCK THAT, man, probably a "Yogi" - hell, probably DRIVES A PRIUS! ouch, amiright amiright?
So...eek... yeah man. Its sucky because you obviously really have this point you mean to make, and it's a righteous point, like a "fuck-you-later" "in-you-face" point and like, from the sidelines seeing that sort of pumped up fury makes me want that point to be SERVED for you. Like, Ill be real, like i was reading and like, full-motherfucking-disclosure: like that cartoon mouse with the big brain that pretty much raised my tiny still tight ass - His name was "The Brain" and he was soooo serious and no one cared and he was sooooo adorably like "take me seriously!" "i'm using big words!" "don't leave me stuck in this butthole, i was about to mention barf barf barf intersectionality barf barf barf" - like, for reals, read your post back in that mousy "I AM THE SMARTEST" domineering voice and its like, huzzza! I just wanna stick my tongue in your ear, givving that willy big bwain of youws a WET WILLY for being so wacky and weird. amiright amiright?
but ok ok ok, OOOOOO ok calming down. I...sorry, i swear i dont mean to just poke fun and patronize (dat big bwain) - i'm, like i feel for you and like, gosh, maybe you like, wrote some crazy farty sentences and thought you had erased them but OH SHIT YOU DID-DINT! YOU POSTED THE FARTS! like - whatever, who doesnt do that, the internets is a tweenage bitchface 7th grade know it all rich brat who hasn't gotten her period yet because she's bullemic. like her mom. or wait, did we go back to me and my farts? i made up the FARTS thing NOBODY DOES THAT WHOOOOOOT?!
tbc...
part two pfffftttttt
Deleteok ok ok....for real. FOR REAL. for real you want to know where i guess (AKA NOT A GUESS BUT A CERTAINTY I WOULD BET MY LEFT TIT ON, stone-cold-sober) where i guess it's hard to (NOT LAUGH) follow "your path;" (I'm drunk, like kettle n soda's with toy boyfriend is how we rolls sunday, so whatever, fuck me) - it seems as though you've maybe read the author's tone in a way that seems a tad too nit-picky? Like from the get go you're butt-sore about the use of the word "justify." and justify, to justify, requiring justification - yeah, the word is perhaps loaded and confrontational in certain contexts, but it's also another, somewhat colloquial for "how do you make sense of x,y,z," - like in the same sentence as the author dropped that...wait for it..."contemptible" (c'mon, it IS funny) "J-BOMB" that way bugged you the author adds "..this is often both thought-provoking and helpful." BIIIITTTCCCH... nope, not really. not really at all.
which makes it even more (HILARIOUSLY BAFFLING) confusing when you continue with a rant about the author "tolerating" you and how "not here for you to tolerate HERE BECAUSE WE ARE HERE." Duuuuudeee... way to co-opt 90's queer theory and drop it like it's the late 1990's and the word tolerance is still be used because it's kind of a universally been dropped like more people say "retard" than say "tolerance" here in the year 2014. All of which I'm throwing out there to explain what the author might mean by using the word tolerance BECAUSE SHE NEVER USES THE WORD TOLERANCE - whhhaaaaaat??? you had me doing a double take, i was all "is there a magic invisible TOLERANCE floating around that i can't see but is going to POP OUT like Right-Said Fred popped out of a giant pivoting high heel in that dope dope video? Because RIGHT SAID FRED = one hit gay wonders (did i mention i eat pussy and am in my 30's so can say "gay" and it's about me, not joking) circa 1994 and what else comes to mind when GAY and CIRCA 94 bareback at a rave? That was the same time when the word tolerance was universally dropped like it was hot.
next, your angst about the author's "elitism?" and jest with logic 101 that you fudge up? blah blah blah...the Good Wife is about to start.
Bwahahahaha! I really was hoping someone would pick this up and have more fun with it, but this is way better than I expected. LMAO. Thank you a million times. You brightened my day.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteYa I picked up on it. And had a good chuckle. I was like....do I tell this poster to go to the hospital for help, then I was like ......hahaha, o the comment beneath it... "there" pulling my leg. You just really wanna play. :-) I'm just busy helping kids with homework and bed...but I did LOL at the comment below. Hope you get a little play in with someone. Tuckered and achy. Good night.
DeleteSo raeven's post was just bait?
DeleteWow, hold on there M.E.,
ReplyDeleteThe sociopaths have a false sense of the world? You believe that? I don't. I think i see the world the way it truly is. Without the layer of bullshit invoked by social norms and this thing called love.
At 21 i thought i'd figured out the world. At 23 i thought i was enlightened. I felt i didn't had to work as hard for it as other people did. But during this time I never realized that i didn't connect with anything at all (well... not in the way i was supposed to be (love)). At 26, after watching Hannibal (again) and House M.D. (episode remorse) i figured out i was a sociopath