"In my opinion, it is you considerate, humane men, that are responsible for all the brutality and outrage wrought by these wretches; because, if it were not for your sanction and influence, the whole system could not keep foothold for an hour. If there were no planters except such as that one," said he, pointing with his finger to Legree, who stood with his back to them, "the whole thing would go down like a millstone. It is your respectability and humanity that licenses and protects his brutality."
― Harriet Beecher Stowe, Uncle Tom's Cabin
― Harriet Beecher Stowe, Uncle Tom's Cabin
1st
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure if this is exactly on topic, but i've been looking at brutal historical figures for signs of sociopathy - Adolf Hitler, Jospeh Stalin, Idi Amin, Osama Bin Laden and Abu Musab Al Zarqawi (leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq)
ReplyDeleteOn the surface they certainly seem to possess signs of being sociopaths - They were all highly charismatic, highly intelligent, and seemed to possess great "animal magnetism", but at the same time showed little or no remorse for thier ruthless policies. However, looking a little deeper things don't look right
- Adolf Hitler focused on the invasion of the Soviet Union to an absurd degree, ignoring the advice of his general staff, as he appeared to be fixated by the fear that the communits would one day attack germany. Towards the end of the war he became paranoid, and completely dismissive of anyone who reported facts that contradicted his beliefs, such as for example, that the German army had been completely routed in Russia.
- Stalin developed a huge and loyal following, but again toward the end of his life refused to beleive that his policies were crippling the soviet union's economy, and became extremely paranoid, even sketching wolves (his enemies) circling prey in his notebooks. While the purges initially removed most of Stalin's opponents, he continued them against people (who probably were loyal to him) for the slighest infraction. He also completely rejected facts that contradicted him - he refused to allow the soviet army to respond to the german invasion, and did believe it was really happening until the Germans had nearly reached Moscow
-Idi Amin was obsessive both about his own tribe, killing anyone who got in thier way, and about his perception of himself as a representative of the British Empire. He invented ceremonies to present himself made up medals and titles. He often said his ideas to execute or expell mass groups came to him in dreams- an israeli doctor concluded he was suffering from syphilis of the brain.
- Osama Bin Laden appeared genuinely commited to his Jihad as a holy duty. In hiding in Pakistan he focused intently on the branding of Al Qaeda, demanding certain press releases after bombings and so on, even though he was mostly out of touch with the activities of the group. He would draw up elaborate plans for operations in the US, disregarding advice from his officers, and then demand to know why they hadnt been followed (they simply didnt have the resources.) He refused to believe reports that Al Qaeda was being crippled and becoming powerless
- Abu Musab al Zarqawi seems the most likely to be a sociopath: from his Guardian obituary: "Reportedly jailed for possessing arms in 1993, Zarqawi became a taciturn loner; fellow prisoners recalled him intimidating inmates with a mere glare." His campaign to ignite a genocide in Iraq came very close to working, but he did not seem to acknowledge the speed and efficiency the US army had in destroying his networks. When his wife urged him to leave Iraq he responded it was his holy duty to finish the Jihad or die trying.
These men certainly have sociopath qualities - but are they actually sociopaths - bearing in mind these are some of the most destructive human beings in history
«- Adolf Hitler focused on the invasion of the Soviet Union to an absurd degree, ignoring the advice of his general staff, as he appeared to be fixated by the fear that the communits would one day attack germany. Towards the end of the war he became paranoid, and completely dismissive of anyone who reported facts that contradicted his beliefs, such as for example, that the German army had been completely routed in Russia.» - I read a study (well, part of it) that said that he met the criteria for NPD, ASPD and paranoid schizophrenia (jeez...)
DeleteSeriously, I've taken plenty of lumps for positing unpopular opinions on
ReplyDeletevarious sites. The only reason why I am so forthright is because I know my
days are numbered. So tragic! Not for you, but for me.
But I'd like to leave the world knowing that I did one good thing. I would LOVE
to play a part in bringing THE TWO GREATEST LIVING SOCIOPATHS
TOGETHER! M.E. & K.C.!
This is NOT an unattainable fantasy. This could be a theoritical reality!
Think of it. K.C. is "free" in a manner of speaking. True, she cannot leave
Florida until the lawsuits against her have been concluded. But M.E. can
certainly get to her. Would you actually say that it is an IMPOSSIBILITY for
the "crafty" M.E. to make accquaintace with K.C. if she REALLY wanted to?
M.E. has told us that she could quit her work NOW if she wanted. There are
worse places to set up shop then Florida. Look at the advantages:
1) M.E. has a REAL LIFE study case that she has acess to. She no longer
is dependant on dry clinical studies of what a genuine sociopath is like. The
most infamous Sociopath alive is her's to study up close. Possible new book?
You better believe it.
2) M.E. can demonstrate for herself, her powers of seduction. K.C. would fall
into her hands like a piece of fruit from a tree. M.E. could also "free" K.C. in a
variety of ways. She could provide her with employment. (M.E. would have to
pick up K.C. for work in the morning and take her home.) M.E. could help
reform Casey and bring her back into the fold of humanity.
3) What does M.E. gain? The satisfaction of knowing she could have such a
positive influence. Her goal is to promote sympathy for Sociopaths. The most
imfamous, hated, but AVAIBLE Sociopath could be the means to do this.
M.E. is NOT an example of a heartless, ICE COLD Sociopath. (Unless
someone is hassling her.) I've done enough personality studies on M.E. to see
that she is really a sincer, good natured, person who only wants to help.
Casey a poor risk? Not worth the effort? She HAS NOT recidivated in almost
4 years. There's a vestage of a human being left WORTH rescuing.
If M.E. doesn't want to do it for whatever reason, maybe a high functioning
Cluster B person, like Dr. Ginger or Radical Atheist could do it. Also, no one
stops anyone from giving to the "Casey Fund."
BTW, has anyone who critised , "Sunshines: The Astorolgy of Being Happy,"
read the book? Look up your birth date and see if it isn't true. It described Casey
and Jodi Arias to a tee.
« I've done enough personality studies on M.E...» - Hum... Studies... You've read half a dozen posts maybe? My gosh, you're such an expert...
Delete«to see
that she is really a sincer, good natured, person who only wants to help.» Oh. My. God.
Lol thanks anon, not really sure what to say :P I don’t think I share the Casey Anthony infatuation, and there are a lot of people who need help. I did, however, think Jodi Arias was interesting for awhile, and considered going down and meeting with her. I know a lot of people thought she had bpd, but I just don’t see it, and not sure how they came to that conclusion. She was cool as ice, and that isn’t really characteristic of bpd. Take Eileen Wuernos for example. They say she had bpd and aspd. How people come up with these diagnoses I’ll never know. The default personalities are different, so I don’t see how someone could have both. During her trail though, there were several outbursts towards the judge. That’s more of what I think of with bpd. Jodi Arias was practically asleep during her trial.
DeleteShe was crying once, I think. It was really weird (maybe she was playing the pity game?)
DeleteRichard Kuklinski broke down crying during the Park Dietz interview. It happens. Sociopaths aren't emotionless, but I have seen several comment on this site about being able to cry on command.
Delete"They say she had bpd and aspd. How people come up with these diagnoses I’ll never know..."
DeleteDr. Ginger, I have a vague, perhaps incorrect, recollection of your many incarcerated males who are diagnosed with AsPD actually have BPD, so I wonder how this relates to the quote here.
I think some of the behaviors on the surface look similar, but some of the underlying psychology is different. So, in the past, I brought up the woman that broke in to the drug dealers house, and killed him with a sword. Some people would look at that and say, well that's ASPD, of course, but she actually had bpd, and felt her actions were morally justified, and in her perception of things, felt it was the right thing to do rather than it just being a predatory act. More and more though, borderlines are being seen as psychopathic by people, even professionals. I frequently here psychologists say that borderlines are "sociopathic". It didn't used to be this way. People with bpd used to garner significantly more sympathy from mental health professionals, but things have changed because of people's experiences with this stuff so in the end, I'm not sure how much people care what the underlying psychology may be that drive some of these behaviors I think they just want it changed.
DeleteI've read elsewhere that people with AsPD are comfortable in their own skin and like themselves, whereas, almost by definition, people with BPD are not. Any form of self-loathing doesn't appear consistent with sociopathy either. I agree with what I understand you to be saying, that a comorbid diagnosis of AsPD and BPD seems paradoxical.
Delete"Seriously, I've taken plenty of lumps for positing unpopular opinions on
ReplyDeletevarious sites. The only reason why I am so forthright is because I know my
days are numbered. So tragic! Not for you, but for me.
But I'd like to leave the world knowing that I did one good thing. I would LOVE
to play a part in bringing THE TWO GREATEST LIVING SOCIOPATHS
TOGETHER! M.E. & K.C.!"
Anonymous,
You're being delusional. Your entire comment, which sounds like a delusional assessment, and that is an understatement, is a reason for concern. Your judgment ability is off. Look for a psychiatrist, take some meds. There is still hope for you, and things will clear up in your confabulated head. Besides, who are you talking to in this episode? Take some time, think about it, and then follow my advice about getting help. Trust me, it will work.
Okay, I will. Take the same advice that you offered me? ????
DeleteGood, get some help. Things will clear up for you after the meds.
Delete"Take the same advice that you offered me? ????"
Which Anon are you talking to and what about? There's a few around here, and in the previous days, too. Or are you talking to yourself? You're confused. Three words: take the meds.
With all due respect: Read yr comment again, and let it deflect back on to you. You give out great advise.
DeleteClever, but it's conceivable to call this victim blaming. As in expecting the victim to understand the consequences before the implied action.
ReplyDeleteI.E.
"Yeah I said that guy could come in but I didn't think he was going to sprout fangs and drain my wife of her blood."
Unless I missed the point of course.
Also...if Casey Anthony is "the greatest living sociopath" then I vote for a recount.
You are blind, neither of these women have any redeeming qualities. I have experienced the duping of the psycho, they delight in your ignorance. What they have done is who they are...believe it!
ReplyDeletePerhaps the ignorance is the problem.
DeleteIgnorance is always a problem.
Delete"You are blind,"...
DeleteSo judgmental.
http://m.xhamster.com/play/247531/wife_catches_her_husband_fucking_his_punk_mistress_in_the_ass.html
ReplyDeleteThis puts me to mind of people who think it should be a crime to feed the homeless. "Good, Christian" people will put this in play and find their "Simon Legrees" to heap their wrath upon. It's easy to sleep that way. Or should be. That little voice of conscience just never shuts up. It just babbles and babbles...
ReplyDeleteEveryone seems particularly crazy and out of touch with reality at this web site this morning.
ReplyDeleteAs usual, I wonder if I am imagining this web site, (thus indicating I am particularly crazy and exceptionally out of touch with reality), or M.E. is writing all the comments and is losing it.
Let's check the sociopath/psychopath news, and see how crazy the world is today.
We've all gone mad,
DeleteCookies,
DeleteYou're projecting. Just saying.
I only project bullshit cookies. Mmmm
DeleteIs this sociopath news to you? hahaha I thought regular news were sociopath news!! this is more like a sociopath café chat...
DeleteHi RA,
DeleteWow - you aren't wrong! There does seem to be a heightened level of crazy of late. Even your "senile ramblings" are making more sense... ;)~
Maybe Cookie is right! =8@~
By the by - Quackallujeh - LOL! Love it!
What is reality?
Deleteis this the lemon cookies guy?
DeleteBy the way, HL, I really liked that girl who wanted to torture all psychologists to death. I know it probably sounds crazy, but once she calmed down like I knew she would, she was very bright, articulate, introspective, and appreciated the fact that I understand how this stuff works. I do good with the high-function bpd's, but I'm probably not the best with low-functioning. Despite how silly I get on the net (and no, not just this site), I'm actually really good in a professional setting. Hard to believe, I know :):):)
DeleteI've noticed professionals who have bpd who suffered more from their disorder, and may be more towards low functioning, often have a high degree of skill catering to borderline sensitivities that I don't always have. So when dealing with ones who might be suicidal, or self-harm, those individuals would be a better fit for them because I don't sugar coat things for borderlines, and can be a bit of a hard ass.
DeleteHi Dr. G,
ReplyDeleteI am glad to hear that things worked out with that patient - that sort of work isn't for the faint of heart. But then, like you said, we like to take risks - it sure seems that we process the calculus of risk differently.
I don't find it at all difficult to believe that you are different at work - you seem well educated, articulate, and possessed of good critical skills. But I very much do expect that you are a hard ass. 8)~
My behavior is quite fluid depending on what my part in a project is. In that way I am more on the cluster B spectrum. If I'm leading the charge, I present one way. If I'm driving change, I present differently. The gig I have now, allows me to be a bit of an asshole - it's expected. So, that's fun. It all depends on what is needed to achieve my goals.
A few years back I was working a consulting gig and I guess I gave one the other engineers the willies. From what my partner told me, it was unsettling to her that I could be so many different things to so many different people. I was just doing what came naturally to get people to do what I needed done. People don't often notice -
Now see? Why can't psychologists focus on the positive aspects of chameleon behaviors? I hate that they pathologize everything. You notice they don't say the white mouse in the French resistance was an abusive narcissistic borderline with antisocial tendencies.
DeleteThat was actually yet another clue that I was a little different. I had always just figured that everyone presented differently in different contexts.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, my view was (and may still be - I'm reconsidering it) that people are kind of like geometric solids and we only "show" one face at a time. Some people are simple - call them tetrahedrons; only a few ways to engage the world. Others, are more complex, call them dodecahedrons; many more ways to engage the world.
Some of the sides we reserve for only those "dear" to us and others are for those that we give our wrath to. And we have a face for the waiters and the check out people. And then there are the faces for the internet (this actually feels more "candid" than most). It's the myriad of roles that we all play.
It still puzzles me that this fluidity is deemed "pathological." This collection of faces (many call masks) have all "felt" authentic. I always figured that they were all valid representations of me - each one for a different context. The "script" for the behavior that people expect.
That's the strange thing about chameleon behaviors is they often feel real and genuine when you're in it. I sometimes I have to ask myself if I'm genuinely in to whatever it is I'm doing. I try to stick to my true self as much as possible. I've been known to get up and leave in the middle of a conversation if I start getting chameleon-y.
DeleteWell, now there's the rub - from my perspective, given the model I've operated under (geometric solids), they are all real. Just different expressions of me.
DeleteIt's less about what I do and more about what I don't do. It's that impulse control thing. Do I really tell the guy making my sandwiches that I could not care less about whatever he is babbling on about (which I do feel sometimes). Or, do I just smile and nod and wait for him to finish and give some pleasant comment and go about my day?
That guy neither merits the effort nor deserves the wrath. Why go there? If I'm gonna be "authentic," I'm going to have a very short run of it. Maybe it's just that it's finally dawning on me that ~90% of the population don't have those same thoughts. I just figured that they had no imagination -
Gonna sleep on that one -
A survey by the NIMH indicated that about 9% of the US population fit the diagnosis of a personality disorder -- pathologizing everything is pretty close.
ReplyDeleteThere's a perverse incentive in the business of mental health -- more patients, more power and influence in society and more money.
Sometimes I wish Freud had never been born -- I mean the whole idea to look at the mind in terms of its pathologies. That's all that psychiatry by definition is about: "the study and treatment of mental illness, emotional disturbance, and abnormal behavior."
"There's a perverse incentive in the business of mental health -- more patients, more power and influence in society and more money."
DeleteDoctorSciFi, you have noooooo idea :) God here comes my radical side, but it's why I enjoyed reading Prilleltensky's "Morals and Politics of Psychology".
"Sometimes I wish Freud had never been born"...lol there's something endearing about this.
DeleteThanks for the reference Dr. G. I am trying to go from a triangle (in HL's terms) to a Koch snowflake. I think chameleons have more fun too as long as they don't screw up their own lives...
DeleteAbout your radical side, so?
Hi DocSciFi,
DeleteThe Therapy Industrial Complex - that and the internet seem to have formed a feedback loop of sorts:
TIC: These people are bad - the worst!
Media: Hey, we want to show bad people - use that name and make them really scary.
TIC: See! They are everywhere! The problem is huge!!!
Media: Hey everyone! There is a problem that is tearing the fabric of society apart! (or some likeminded bullshit).
You get the idea - they help each other convince people that they have problems and need help. No cures - just treatments and ratings (which = income).
FWIW, Ma Haller is in the TIC and there are folks in real need of help, but there is a whole industry around convincing people that something that might be doing needs to be cured and that they need to find ways to be happy...as if that is some sort of "normal state."
I would suggest that if we really want to talk about "abnormal," the population in question be <1%.
OK - I'll kick the soap box aside... 8)~
I should have said, "...convincing people that something that they might be doing be treated."
DeleteIt's getting late...
I enjoy this commentary. I am of the camp that believes we are not inherently evil but rather disposessed of the kind of emotional inhibitors that make brutality and deception distasteful to empaths. I say this to say that- the majority of my allegedly heartless behavior has been at the behest of empaths rather than my own construction. I may be the metaphorical straight razor and my condition may make me sharper and faster than most, but a razor left alone in a cabinet is unlikely to slash a throat of its own accord.
ReplyDeleteI surprised with the analysis you made to make this particular publish incredible. Wonderful activity!
ReplyDeletekonighealthcare |