From a reader:
Two days ago I was looking for a book in the psychology section at the library when I noticed the tidy spine of Confessions of a Sociopath. I was struck by its whiteness, ingenuous font, and "ME", a combination of sensory impressions that piqued my curiosity. I checked the book out and literally devoured it in two sessions.
Your candid, at first horrifying, then thrilling and insightful memoir has literally overnight swept away all the doubt and consternation I've subjected myself to all throughout my life. I'm 66 and that is just too long to suffer. Where doubt recently held sway, confidence marches in.
I've recently been trying to rationalize some "inappropriate" mental states and ruthless actions, having learned as an only child that I should always feel guilty about my true nature and motives. It's so liberating to turn the corner and see myself from an entirely different angle. I am starting to understand and embrace my ability to manipulate, and now I can begin to appreciate many actions I berated myself for over the past 50 years!
My compliments to you, "Ms. Thomas", on your courage and most especially your spellbinding prose style that kept me turning pages all the while squirming in my seat. You wrote (p. 299) that you couldn't predict whether you had created the desired effect in your book. I can assure you that if your intent was to illuminate, educate, and garner acceptance for those of us who struggle to "fit into the norm" and keep failing, you have succeeded beyond what any writer might expect.
I am going to devote a fair share of the coming days to reading your blog -- and also buy a copy of your book. Thank you so very much for your great service.. As the French say, "vive la difference." Sociopaths make the world a much more lively and fascinating place to live!
And I thought I should give an update post coming out, because I had a family get together recently and there were at least a few other family members that were considered to be more of a black sheep than I am and I had to laugh a little at that. I am not a pariah. Only one friend from before is no longer my friend. My family has been completely loving and supportive. Actually, for some of them, I now have the best relationship that I have ever had with them. And the crazy thing is that by living so openly, many if not most of my previous "temptations" are gone. I don't have a need to blow off steam or to let down my mask because I'm not really wearing a mask. I don't really live like a sociopath anymore. I may still think like one, that will probably always be my first language. But in therapy I'm learning to understand other languages as well. I can honestly say that I am much better off and much happier than I was before coming out, for what it's worth. I know that I've said before to others to never come out, never get diagnosed, because people aren't ready for it. But it turns out that plenty of people are ready. I'm sure I have limited myself in all sorts of ways because of it, but ultimately I feel like it has been worth it.
Two days ago I was looking for a book in the psychology section at the library when I noticed the tidy spine of Confessions of a Sociopath. I was struck by its whiteness, ingenuous font, and "ME", a combination of sensory impressions that piqued my curiosity. I checked the book out and literally devoured it in two sessions.
Your candid, at first horrifying, then thrilling and insightful memoir has literally overnight swept away all the doubt and consternation I've subjected myself to all throughout my life. I'm 66 and that is just too long to suffer. Where doubt recently held sway, confidence marches in.
I've recently been trying to rationalize some "inappropriate" mental states and ruthless actions, having learned as an only child that I should always feel guilty about my true nature and motives. It's so liberating to turn the corner and see myself from an entirely different angle. I am starting to understand and embrace my ability to manipulate, and now I can begin to appreciate many actions I berated myself for over the past 50 years!
My compliments to you, "Ms. Thomas", on your courage and most especially your spellbinding prose style that kept me turning pages all the while squirming in my seat. You wrote (p. 299) that you couldn't predict whether you had created the desired effect in your book. I can assure you that if your intent was to illuminate, educate, and garner acceptance for those of us who struggle to "fit into the norm" and keep failing, you have succeeded beyond what any writer might expect.
I am going to devote a fair share of the coming days to reading your blog -- and also buy a copy of your book. Thank you so very much for your great service.. As the French say, "vive la difference." Sociopaths make the world a much more lively and fascinating place to live!
And I thought I should give an update post coming out, because I had a family get together recently and there were at least a few other family members that were considered to be more of a black sheep than I am and I had to laugh a little at that. I am not a pariah. Only one friend from before is no longer my friend. My family has been completely loving and supportive. Actually, for some of them, I now have the best relationship that I have ever had with them. And the crazy thing is that by living so openly, many if not most of my previous "temptations" are gone. I don't have a need to blow off steam or to let down my mask because I'm not really wearing a mask. I don't really live like a sociopath anymore. I may still think like one, that will probably always be my first language. But in therapy I'm learning to understand other languages as well. I can honestly say that I am much better off and much happier than I was before coming out, for what it's worth. I know that I've said before to others to never come out, never get diagnosed, because people aren't ready for it. But it turns out that plenty of people are ready. I'm sure I have limited myself in all sorts of ways because of it, but ultimately I feel like it has been worth it.
That's Great! I hope your journey will continue with positive content.
ReplyDeleteThank you, 'ME" for posting my email and Whitey for your encouragement. It's been a great weekend of reinventing myself and rewriting my history. The road ahead may have some more blips to handle but there is new, previously bottled up energy for that. The things we're taught and how things really are - maybe that's all just a matter of perspective in the long run. -- call me "Pandy" ................
DeletePandy, about "I should always feel guilty about my true nature and motives." Did you feel guilty or was it something else?
DeleteDoctor SciFi, Thanks for your question. You're right, it's probably a lot more complicated than mere guilt. But I can tell you that most of my guilt feelings came from my religious upbringing - a belief system that I never bought into, even as a preschooler. I couldn't reconcile what all my authority figures said vs. how they acted, and this created a disconnect that has lasted decades. I was always made to feel guilty through various corporal punishments and eventually learned to just keep my true feelings to myself. Does that make sense? -Pandy
Deletewell, yes and no Pandy. There's a difference potentially between being made to feel guilty and actually feeling guilty. What did you feel when you were made to feel guilty?
DeleteI get the disconnect but not the feelings about it. Does that make sense?
Pandy, Can you give some examples of what you were punished for? Manipulations were mentioned. Was it for the manipulations? What feelings did you keep to yourself. Do you really believe you are a sociopath? I like how we get to see how complex this personality type is on this site. It's something I try to get other mental health professionals to see. I'm trying to get the field to move away from pigeonholing.
DeleteThere's a strong possibility I will be working as a psychologist in the prison system soon, and I'm kind of a strange person because I am really looking forward to it. I've always kind of had an interest in the criminal populations, and studying sociopathy/psychopathy, and will use some of the information I have learned from this site. Looking forward to also conducting research in the prison system on the populations expanding our current knowledge on the condition, but also finding ways of helping people better manage their symptoms.
DeleteThere's a psychologist that works at UTEP that studies psychopathy almost exclusively, and I can't help but wonder if he is also a psychopath. Psychologists often research disorders they themselves suffer with.
DeleteDr. Sci Fi.: First of all, I don't think I'm much of sociopath, except in certain situations. Reading the book last week made me realize that some of my behaviors are very cold, remorseless, and manipulative, details not important at this time. If I had to rate myself on a SP scale of 1 to 10 I'd probably only be a 2 or a 3. You asked what did I feel when I was made to feel guilty? I suppose if I were a sociopath I would feel not much of anything, but instead I felt angry and resentful to be punished for being true to myself, as if being myself was something unsavory, needing an intervention. I have to admit these are intriguing questions you pose. I've struggled with doing bad things and seeing people suffer at my hand because I was taught that's wrong. But sometimes I just did those things because I had an agenda, whether conscious or not, and knowing full well I had gotten myself into the predicaments, but needing to have my way at all costs. Once I had my way, I would lose interest, so maybe that's where the sociopathy comes in. I sit here pondering...if i'm not a sociopath in some way then what am I? If I'm not then why did the book resonate so deeply with me? I don't know but I want to find out more.-Pandy
DeleteDr. Ginger: Thank you for your questions. As a child, I was punished for being selfish, for disobeying, for causing my parents to worry, for not getting perfect grades. After I graduated college I got the silent treatment (my mother is passive-aggressive) when I decided to live with my boyfriend without getting married. This happened several times in my adult life and I grew to despise her power over me. Actually, to my knowledge, not one single person I've manipulated successfully has ever mentioned their displeasure to me, which might mean I did such a good job of it that they never knew, or perhaps were afraid of me afterward. :) No I do not think I'm a sociopath at all, but I do have some of the attributes ME described in her book. I can break up with someone I'm bored with in a heartbeat, use people to get things I want and then leave, and maneuver situations to benefit me financially. I have been quite ruthless in the workplace. But I'm retired now and mellower than I used to be....I've just started reassessing my life history as if I were a sociopath and some of what I see is germane but much of it isn't. The feelings I keep to myself are usually the ones I know people I'm with would freak out if they knew how I really felt, especially if I need to be on good terms with them. It is complicated....am having some difficulty understanding myself lately! - Pandy
DeleteIt seems like there are a lot of people who visit this site who feel they can partially identify with sociopathy. I wonder how it compares to most people. Do most people find they are, at times, able to be ruthless, calculating, and manipulative? Do most people have a dark side they keep disguised, or is there really something in your personality that is similar to a personality disorder? Maybe everyone has these traits to some degree, but it just tends to be more extreme in PD's.
DeleteDr. Ginger: I don't think I know anyone who doesn't have a personality disorder of some kind! --Pandy
Delete@ M.E. Good on ya! Post more on your process - 8)~
Delete@Pandy: Good on ya as well! You have some interesting thoughts - I do hope you keep sharing.
Anon/Pandy,
Delete"I've struggled with doing bad things and seeing people suffer at my hand because I was taught that's wrong. But sometimes I just did those things because I had an agenda, whether conscious or not, and knowing full well I had gotten myself into the predicaments, but needing to have my way at all costs. Once I had my way, I would lose interest, so maybe that's where the sociopathy comes in."
You struggled with doing bad things and seeing people suffer at your hand, because you were taught that it was wrong. Obviously, it was wrong, and the fact that you struggled should have been a strong indication that you were doing something WRONG. There is no acceptance in that, and no person who understands what is RIGHT would accept you for doing wrong and for making others suffer. You shouldn't accept that in yourself either, just because you read a book having to do with someone's else's life journey. You should get help from a psychiatrist or a psychologist, and understand that doing wrong and making others suffer is unacceptable. Receiving corporal punishment for the things you have done was also wrong, which is also an issue you would need to discuss with your doctor if you choose to see one.
"I am starting to understand and embrace my ability to manipulate, and now I can begin to appreciate many actions I berated myself for over the past 50 years!"
Manipulating others should not be embraced by anyone, especially after reading a book which, and I repeat, had to do with someone else's life journey. You should not confuse that with your own life and the things that you have done. Every person is different, keeping in mind that the author of this book has been taking steps in a more positive direction. Also, the author of this book is not encouraging others to do wrong, to manipulate and feel alright with doing it, and to make others suffer. She is not saying to embrace manipulation and to make people suffer, since there is no acceptance in that. You haven't understood her message. Seeing a psychiatrist or a psychologist and discussing these issues would make more sense for you. Focus on love, acceptance, and healing your mind and soul. Keep making a difference between right and wrong in your life, knowing that the tendency to do wrong toward others is something that you need to heal.
Anon/Pandy,
Delete"Actually, to my knowledge, not one single person I've manipulated successfully has ever mentioned their displeasure to me, which might mean I did such a good job of it that they never knew, or perhaps were afraid of me afterward. :) "
OR, and this is also quite possible, they knew about it and just didn't tell you. People are not as blind as you seem to think, so change your thinking. Also, they were well aware of your manipulative ways, and even though they tried to help, you didn't take their hints or advice. Think of other possibilities before accepting something in your head that needs to be discussed with a mind care professional and ultimately healed.
"I can break up with someone I'm bored with in a heartbeat, use people to get things I want and then leave, and maneuver situations to benefit me financially. I have been quite ruthless in the workplace."
And yet additional proof that you need professional help with your issues. Again, M.E.'s book is neither saying to cause suffering in others, not is it a template for others to follow. Think in a more positive way, and look for love and acceptance in doing the right things in life.
arrogance personified
DeleteAnon,
DeleteI can assure you, there is no arrogance in what I'm saying, nor am I trying to sound superior in ways that you might even view as argumentative. I have only been trying to make you aware of some things. Also, I hope that you did not misunderstand my tone.
- Eric James Smith
DeleteThree cheers for ME's adventures!!!
ReplyDeleteDr. Ginger,
ReplyDelete"Do most people find they are, at times, able to be ruthless, calculating, and manipulative?"
The answer to your question is no. You're asking this question as though you would like it to be so. But, no, in the real world, most people are not ruthless, and I'm one of those persons. Humanity is not as you imagine it to be. What makes this happen in your mind is a negative or dark outlook. If you would change that toward a more positive state of mind, you would be more inclined toward seeking and finding individuals and places showing you that most people in this world aren't ruthless at all. Look for positive content, and for ways to understand that love and acceptance is what makes life beautiful and worth living. As long as you read and concentrate on negative and dark content, your mind will be affected by it, deepening yourself in it and becoming even more negative. The only way to break free from that is to seek love and acceptance in that, as opposed to doing wrong/hate, and somehow finding acceptance in it because of a book (as Pandy does) written by someone on a different life journey (the facts and life situations differ, too, as written by this author in comparison to what Pandy has stated). Find more positive and healing ways to lead your life.
"You're asking this question as though you would like it to be so." Actually I ask as an objective scientist.
DeleteDr. Ginger,
DeleteObjectivity is fine and it has its place, but looking within and engaging in reflection is what brings things to the surface, helping one cope, integrate and resolve personal issues.
What?? Are you just fuckin with me anon? :P
DeleteDr. Ginger,
DeleteI don't do such things with people. That is not my reason for being here. As I commented before, I only mean to help.
yes you have made your point that you only mean to help, whatever that means. telling ppl what they should do or not do is not gonna do that here.
DeleteEric James Smith
DeletePandy says: Thank you all for your perspectives. I do spend most of my time engaged in positive, cordial relationships and community service of various kinds. I realize ME's book is about HER journey and life, but some of her experiences and insights shone a bright light on my own dark places, so it was helpful and made me feel better about some aspects of my own self that I have had a hard time accepting. The manipulation and coldness are really infrequent incidents when seen within a life of 66 years. What I think has been most helpful is that when I find myself thinking along those lines now or in the future, I will be AWARE of what is happening in me and I can make better choices than doing what I used to do (manipulate, etc) unconsciously. It's not an easy thing, changing one's stripes.--Pandy
ReplyDeletePandy,
Delete"What I think has been most helpful is that when I find myself thinking along those lines now or in the future, I will be AWARE of what is happening in me and I can make better choices than doing what I used to do (manipulate, etc) "
Awareness is really what you need in order to make better choices. Staying aware all of the time, and keeping love, non-judgment and compassion in your mind and heart, will help you get through it. It's not an easy process and it can take some time, but every day can be a new step for you, and things will surely improve with every step that you take while being fully aware of what is really happening in your mind and all around you. You will be pulled in different directions by your thoughts [some inner thoughts might feel as though you didn't think of them at all], these thoughts might tell you to manipulate or doubt others when they try to help, but staying afloat and aware will help you make it through them. Think of it as riding a large, overwhelming wave, getting over the hard part, and then making it safely to the shore. It will not be easy, but you will do it through awareness.
These thoughts might feel like "masks" (someone has used the word alter(s) around here, too, which is not a mask per se, but I did see it in some posts, or, if you will, think of fragmentation as a result of negative life experiences that have strongly impacted you in the past - "As a child, I was punished for being selfish [physical abuse as in corporal punishment?], for disobeying, for causing my parents to worry, for not getting perfect grades. After I graduated college I got the silent treatment (my mother is passive-aggressive) when I decided to live with my boyfriend without getting married. This happened several times in my adult life and I grew to despise her power over me."), but working with them by staying present and/or aware, and by being loving, understanding and compassionate, will make a huge difference in your state of mind, thinking and behavior. In time, things will feel more together in there, having been integrated through love, care, full understanding and compassion.
I'm not telling you to be controlling with yourself [there is a huge difference between love and control], but resolving issues from the past will help you cope better in the present, as well as in the future. I was not arrogant in mentioning professional help. I just thought that sometimes, some people can't help themselves, not because they are not smart enough. It is because they need the perspective or professional experience of another, or the well-intended advice of others, in order to gain more awareness and, in time, feel more integrated in their own mind.
Thank you- Pandy.
DeletePandy! Thank you for sharing your history. It is amazing that you found a voice through M.E. work. I know it was her journey, but we all in this together somehow. I have been betrayed and ridiculously manipulated by some people. I knew all the way their nature and their game.... but was deeply in denial of their dark side.... just as much as I was in denial of my dark side "also". It has been liberating to acknowledge all my evil side.... the difference I am trying to make to myself is. Whatever I am willing to know better about myself, will come from a place of understanding, love and compassion and non-judgement. I don't care if it is right or wrong. I don't care if we are psychopaths or not, I don't care if we are empath or not.... We all teachers and students here, that I do care about.
ReplyDeleteMia
Mia,
Delete"Whatever I am willing to know better about myself, will come from a place of understanding, love and compassion and non-judgement."
This sounds really good. I hope that you keep thinking this way.
This from Pandy: Mia, Thank you for your kind reply. For the naysayers, I can only say you are as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. But I have to wonder what sort of people you are to make me try to feel bad about myself. I'm working on my issues as best I can and am not willing to criticize anyone else who's in that same process of self-discovery. Who knows how fragile the nascent being really is? Or what it will look like when it emerges from its cocoon? I'll be back in another guise, maybe as commenter. Pandy out.
ReplyDeleteAnon/Pandy,
DeleteIf you've read my posts, you'd understand that it's not criticism at all.
"Who knows how fragile the nascent being really is? Or what it will look like when it emerges from its cocoon? I'll be back in another guise, maybe as commenter."
What "nascent being"? Are you referring to an alter? As I tried to explain above, stay aware all of the time. Do your best in fighting the tendency to drift off or to let your mind wander as though you're losing control in some way that makes you feel "scattered" (again, not control as in being mean to yourself or restrictive, but as in watching out for yourself). Awareness brings things together in your mind, and in time, it will help you with integrating the fragmented parts and with feeling whole.
a great wisdom that serves us all here and everywhere.... so I guess!
Delete"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." -- Wendell Phillips, (1811-1884)
Mia
Hi Mia, I like your comments here with Pandy. Pandy, are you really going away? I hope not because I enjoy reading your comments here. Most of us here are on some kind of search too. I think the rest are insane:)
DeleteThis coming from the guy who wants to have sex with robots.
DeleteHow observant of you anon. you got me all figured out!
Delete@DocSF: the two aren't mutually exclusive either.
DeleteI hope both Pandy and Mia stick around - I'm enjoying their story as well.
I didn't intend to imply that they were.
DeleteAnon, No not an alter ego at all. It's the me that keeps reinventing herself by discovering new facets always emerging . I have a poetic streak & often I think in images. Try as I might I am not able to be logical and aware at all times. -Pandy
ReplyDeletePandy,
ReplyDeleteAre you sure, since fragmented people hide such things (seen as internal "secrets" in the system), and sometimes, an alter can cover for or hide what other alters reveal or do when interacting with family members or strangers. You might have a poetic alter (or the "original"/host might be poetic), and, psychologically, thinking in images is common with fragmented individuals (it's a mode of communication between alters). I am only trying to understand, so don't take any of this in a way that I don't really mean.
Also, Pandy, when an alter, or more than one alter, takes over, one is not logical, and, in the process, the "original"/host becomes unaware and loses time. If you can, and if you become aware of other things, try to look more into this, since there is lots of information about it.
DeleteAnon, this does not sound like me at all. I'm a very intelligent, responsible ex-professional woman, often able to use both left and right brain functions at the same time. You may be overanalyzing this. I'm quirky, creative, and I'm happy with that. - P
DeleteAnon maybe some projections there!!!! ooops.... time for us all to self-reflect, deep breath and don't take anything very personal here, apart from our own personal stuff.... so I also guess!!!
DeleteMia
Dr Sci Fi, hi and nice to hear from you again. I just came back in to see what was posted since my last visit. I'm not going away as long as people visit! but as Mia said, maybe it's a good time to self-reflect and not take things too personally here (etc) - to tell the truth I felt a little overwhelmed with all the free advice and started getting a little annoyed. I wonder who that person is, & what makes him/her think they're qualified to preach?
DeleteSo let's keep the palaver going. I enjoy doing this soul-baring anaonymously and I promise not to preach at any of you who want to hang out here. I don't want to change you or your point of view (it's hard enough to change one tiny thing about myself!) . I'm going to try acceptance of self first and see how that plays out. Maybe it's been the rejection of my "sore places" that has created the most havoc for me and others. It's hard for me to accept myself as less than terrific. Ugh. Such a chore to keep up appearances. lol In this space created so graciously by M E we can all explore our quirks safely I hope....
So, Dr. Sci Fi, Mia, & supporters, let's keep it going and I would also like to hear your stories if you care to share in here or elsewhere on the blog. Deal? ---Pandy
Yes, Pandy, I was also a bit taken aback by the sudden profusion of unrequested advise here. And for you especially with your guilt injunctions, as I read it from how you were raised. Like, what is the point? How can that possibly be helpful. I don't see that.
DeleteI see this place sort of as a free for all and it really depends (obviously) on who is here and who is not. I hope you find the non-judgemental support you are looking for to figure things out for yourself.
I thought Rad put it perfectly that it's like an anarchic libertarian utopia :P
Delete"anarchic libertarian utopia" - no wonder I keep hanging out here!
DeleteDr SciFi, Yeah, I'm starting to think people who won't sign a name to their post or have a blog id like yours are either insecure or malicious. BTW I wish I knew how to get a Pandy button. I'm so tired of being possibly confused with all the others anons in the world! Anyone know how I can do that? :) Well today is a good day so I can make jokes. Yes, I do have lots of guilt issues....I think M E explains that really well in the book. It's probably dealt with in the blog too....so much to read in between
Deletethis and other stuff (life) going on.
Dr Ginger, who is Rad? -- Pandy
"anarchic libertarian utopia" - no wonder I keep hanging out here!" I know..it makes it terribly addictive :/
DeleteThere is a guy who was posting for awhile under Radical Agnostic. I thought he was hilarious, but he got on some people's nerves.
DeleteBy the way, you asked about people's stories, and why they are here. I probably won't tell mine. I think it disturbs people too much with the "doctor" title to know the truth. If I wanted to examine my darker side, I probably really should have left the "dr" title out, and not been forthcoming about my profession. I once posted anonymously, and was told I was lying by several people, but I was being completely honest. I get a lot projected on to me for various reasons such as being a psychologist, and the expectations that go with that, or being female. Being a psychologist everyone thinks I am overflowing with empathy and compassion, and they think I am a healer, and there solely to mend their wounds. I do what I am suppose to in a professional setting, but some of the confinements of social construction can start to take it's toll on me after awhile, and I need an outlet before someone gets murdered. I always try to find prosocial outlets though, and not hurt anyone, or engage in any abusive behaviors.
DeleteHi Pandy,
DeleteTo post your name - DocSF helped me with this and I'm happy to finally pass the "stoke" along.
Below the box you are typing in, there should be a "Reply as:" drop down menu. Drop it down and select, "Name/URL" and fill in your name and leave the URL blank. Bob's your uncle.
I hope this "advice" is helpful. 8)~ (round glasses and goatee, before you ask - *grin*).
Yeah - where is RA?
DeleteI enjoy him being around. I don't read everything he writes, but I do scan it and get a kick out of what he says from time to time.
Hopefully he's off getting in touch with his inner "tri-path."
By the by, Pandy,
DeleteSome people post as "anon" or alters - it seems to be an accepted practice. I do it from time to time, but mostly it's when I leave a comment that I'm not all that interested in following.
I think that some people post as alters so that they can speak their mind without "damaging" their "forum cred." I get it - I've only been hanging out here for a few months, but I can see being invested but wanting to say something - I don't think it's always malicious (though, this is "sociopathworld," so...).
So what's your exit strategy for breaking your addiction to sociopathworld :P
DeleteOh thanks everyone for the great advice, comments and all! First let me try the 'stoke' from HLLaller....see if I can conjure Pandy up....
DeleteWell lawd amighty. It worked! Thanks HL! Round glasses and goatee! Very professorial. :)
DeleteDr. Ginger, I totally get what you're saying about not wanting to tell your own story here, esp. if that's your real name. So it makes sense to post as an 'alter' anonymously at times. Pandy is not my real name....it's a nickname for one of my pen names. It's so handy to be a schizoid semi-sociopath and hide in plain sight! ....So, you're a real psychologist, eh? Do you encounter many SPs in your practice? There seem to be many variations on this theme. It would seem to me that if you yourself were a SP it would be incredibly helpful for the purpose of not empathizing so much as understanding and supporting with your 'analysands' - if they're still called that.
I wonder how many people posting here are what they say they are - esp. if lying is a hallmark of SPs. Take advice with many grains of salt and not take too much personally seems a good plan, as Mia said.
I have no exit strategy in mind. It feels pretty cozy in here! I must be the needy sort of low-level SP...just beginning my adventure into the Darth Veder part of me so long denied and suppressed.
You're right, probably not many in here are deliberately malicious...as a writer I struggle for words when my thesaurus is buried under piles of discarded drafts....and it's axiomatic that once people press the publish button they will feel the need to edit.
I will most likely be working in a prison so I will probably encounter lots of sociopaths there.
DeleteDr. Ginger, What is your opinion on profiling, like on tv - Criminal Minds, Dexter, or the Blacklist, for instance? Are criminals fairly easy to peg? or just the repeat offenders? Is that the kind of thing a prison psychologist would be involved in?
DeleteOut of all of those, I've only seen Dexter. I really liked that show. Are you talking about real FBI agents who profile? I personally think making assumptions about people is a dangerous thing, or at least potentially inaccurate thing to do. I was trained never to make assumptions about others; to always ask and at least confirm our suspicions, and to always keep it on the back of your mind that people may not be completely honest. I personally think the FBI should do away with profilers. The most recent stat I read is that they are as accurate as psychics; about 2% of the time.
DeletePrison psychologists implement therapy with inmates, and try to reduce recidivism rates. They also conduct research. No, I would not be involved with FBI, and profiling :)
Delete@Dr. G: I don't say it often, but if you land that gig, I will be jealous. I'm rooting for you - I hope to live vicariously through you. *smirk*
Delete@Pandy: Happy to oblige! I think of this as a place where people come to be who they really want to be and/or feel/think that they are - so are any of us really what we say we are? Or, are we more so here? I think Mia has it right, "don't take it too personally."
@ Dr G - Thanks, good info- your view sounds logical to me. When will you know about the job? I have to go see my psychic soon......I will take her with a 2% grain of salt - :P
Delete@ HL - How do people in here maintain contact within the blog....hop into new posts? There are always new issues coming up for people, so I'm wondering how to find y'all in the future. How do I make that not sound so needy!! :) When I start rereading ME's book next week I'm sure I'll have questions, do I need to email her like the first time or just keep posting in here? Very green newbie, oh well!
Hi Pandy,
DeleteNo worries - on the time scale of weeks/months, I'm fairly sure I'll still be posting here. There is a search feature that people have mentioned, but I've rarely used with and success - it's a box near the top of the web page that says, "SEARCH THIS BLOG" (I'm quoting, not shouting or trying to be rude/snarky 8)~).
Beyond that, I don't really post anywhere else - or, at least I post rarely. Ma Haller keeps asking me when I'm going to start my own blog. LOL! This is doing the trick for me - as Dr. G says "exercising/exorcizing my demons." There are some folks who are active here also have blogs -
Also, I scroll back and forth among postings - usually no more than what comes up on the initial web page. However, I find the old posts and conversations very interesting - there was a very different vibe here a year or two ago. Sometimes people leave "gems" there too - hell, I plant the odd Easter Egg myself.
DeleteHL, you're so fun.... Oh please feel free to snark at will! All your points well taken. We'll meet again no doubt now that I know how to ID myself, thanks to you. :)
DeleteEric James Smith
DeleteOops, forgot to include you Dr. Ginger, you are welcome to comment to your hearts delight. -Pandy
ReplyDeleteHi Pandy! I was not in the mood to say much today! but something came to my mind about your this "cocoon" stage you have mentioned.
ReplyDeleteI am at this stage of existence... and one thing I have figured it out is that coming here and participating at this forum, is a safe place for me to understand what has happened. Queerly enough I have also found it to be a safe place to experience hard feelings (anger, rage, despair, revenge) without crashing or hurting someone or hurting myself. Until I am ready to keep moving.
You mentioned about self-accepting yourself.... yessss that is also what I am here for. I am not looking for self-improvement of any kind, or to become a better person, more empathic or a bit psychopathic. Just want to know me more, through others as well.
You get to know a lot about yourself when you pay close attention on the impact you have on others.... and I see how peoples comments has an impact on me or not.... When I say don't take too personally... what I mean is that truly and deeply only we know what is ours or not.... projections are for real. So we get a better understanding about ourselves when we say "Wait a minute... this is not mine.... thank you, but I have the right to turn it back".... this is empowering....
But if I don't take things personal, I would not also be able to receive the amazing energy I got from the some people here.... So in my cocoon work in progress, I am choosing what nurtures me or not.
I got to like HLHailer refined ability to say what we need to hear ;) and Dr Ginger sarcasm and evil drive inspires me!
Mia
Hi Mia, I like what your wrote very much today, esp. the part of what impact we have on people. Do you see yourself treating different people in different ways? I find it hard to be consistent and I hesitate to say it but it FEELS for lack of a better way to say it, like it is based on whether I think I'm a predator or prey. :) Like if I need someone I will take greater pains to be nice, the other way not so much. I do get down on myself when this happens, which is not all the time. It's not like I get up each day and think, Oh today I will manipulate Bob or seduce John, etc....it's more like when I encounter a person who is out of emotional control, I seem to enter that cool mode. Yikes, that sounds bad,,,ha ha, I'll probably get some flack for that from somebody . :) Bring it! Anyhow mia, I do think this is a safe place to explore, I hope when you're ready to exit your cocoon you will feel strong enough to face whatever comes along with strength and power, not with shame or confusion.
ReplyDeleteJust found out Amazon shipped my copy of ME's book today....should be here next week!
Pandy I totally get you!
ReplyDeleteWhat people may call "manipulation"... I call "use of natural resources" . I have used a LOT of my sexuality and charisma to get what I needed and wanted. Some people thought i was manipulative, but actually I think that I was using my abilities to achieve and get what I want. I feel it is a pretty fair game to play. I am sure God is proud :)
However, to influence people to give me what I want, or deceive them to do something they probably in their clear mind would not do otherwise, does not motivates me. As somehow, when some people were "manipulating" me, I kind of knew they were.... however I just could not believe it. When the denial melts and you see the real thing. Ohhhhh girl! The anger and the hate and disgust you get is crazy, and very dangerous to myself and them. I actually had a chance to protect my ex in court and I did not. He is in real trouble.... but I know it was not me that caused it. he is just tasting the consequences of his chosen actions.
I have a pattern in this life, which have work against me many times. I like to be liked. I honestly thought that if people likes me, I am safe and will have my needs met. I can tell you. This is the "easy easy prey" come and get me thing! Now I AM FREE.... I don't care if anyone will like me anymore. I meet and I talk intimately to myself. DO I LIKE THIS PERSON, OR NOT?! .... actually if they like me, all my survival skills are HIGH ALERT! so in this way.... the intimate relationship with the predator, just helped me to develop First Class Survival Skills... best lesson ever!
When you ask: Do you see yourself treating different people in different ways? ABSOLUTELY my dear! ABSOLUTELY.... I can move from the "mother nurturing friend" to the shrew you going to run away. It normally gets people by surprise as they think they are playing me.... however, I am going to use your words in a afferent order.... " Like if I need to protect myself I will take greater pains to be bad, the other way not so much"
an the book on its way!... enjoy! I read it in a day. I have also listened to one of her interviews on youtube http://youtu.be/bcnpfYaYwAQ
Mia!!! You got right inside my head with your comment! How awesome it is to be understood and understand someone, and accept "as is!" I will be back after T-day duties w/ relatives later today & will have much more to say @you, but for now, thanks so much for your encouraging support!
DeleteHi Mia,
DeleteI really enjoyed this post - I like seeing people come to the realization that they have power over their lives (in a real sense - delusions are rarely pretty).
Getting what you want by being liked reminds me of the old saw: when the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. And when that hammer doesn't do the job how we want, it can be distressing. I found that expanding the toolbox makes life easier all around.
Manipulation? Maybe - I'm still noodling on how manipulation is really different from most interactions. But that's another thread altogether -
Happy Thankstaking!!!
Mia, You could be my psychological twin sister! I agree, why not use our god-given abilities to get what we want? Like use it or lose it, right? For many years I repressed my sexuality and now it has come back in full force. It's a little scary because it has grown mighty powerful & strong during its confinement. I tried some out the other day and was totally shocked at the responses I got. I must proceed with wissdom and caution....I have a 'target person' for it (sounds cold, but true) who doesn't seem to want me the same way and it will be fun to see if I can use my wiles to win him over.
DeleteWhat a great phrase in your post : when the denial melts...oh yes. I agree. And the pattern in life, you need to be liked, I share that too. Only a total masochist would want to be hated. That would not be me! You reminded me of something Ralph Waldo Emerson once wrote 150 years ago , I forget which essay, but it was along the lines of "when I meet with a friend, I don't try to entertain or please him , I only hope that he tries to pleases ME." Emerson- a sociopath? Maybe just an honest realist that knew his own value.
If you need to protect yourself you will take greater pains to be bad. Wow. I have been doing that with amazing results and not feeling as guilty as I used to. Hey you girl, thanks for being so open about all this!
HL, Happy T day to you and everyone too. I'm glad it's almost over!
Hi Pandy! how funny you say twin sister. Thank you for the bond :) so I will say I am your "moon" sister. Like the moon, I am there somewhere in the dark space, but anonymously present.
DeleteYou made me laugh hahahaha .... about you sexual energy pulsing powerful and strong. Already has a target hahahaha. You know what! I believe that when we walk with a purpose, we became a hell lot more sexier. A target helps! "HUNT TIME GIRL".... When you say "I must proceed with wissdom and caution....I have a 'target person' for it (sounds cold, but true) who doesn't seem to want me the same way and it will be fun to see if I can use my wiles to win him over". Sounded if you were just telling me by the ear what your secrets plans are.... hahahah that made my day.
It reminded me about a friends birthday party last weekend. I was not much up for it... but oh well! my horoscope had good predictions so I went. I met a very cute guy.... very quickly I notice a shower of hormones shaking in my body. My bitch cells were screaming to me. "Let's mate Let's mate.... here a body at last". I really just wanted his body nothing else. He smelled good, had great teeth and the best, he was very shy. Sounded perfect. A silence body in my bed! but he invited me for a dance, a drink.... and i realised I didn't want to go through this mating process. I left, and I realised I am still cocooning! But I get it! sexual energy is unbelievable powerful. We better use it to our best.... with "wisdom and caution" ;)
Ralph Waldo Emerson wrote about self resilience. A skill I am learning. If that is been a sociopath, so I will join the club. But I think it is very simple. For me it is like self direction through self love, I want that.
HLHailer... "when the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. And when that hammer doesn't do the job how we want, it can be distressing. I found that expanding the toolbox makes life easier all around" ... this felt like music to me! Great lyrics! Great wisdom! oh like it very much!
Time to expand the personalised tools. The manipulation topic is a very interesting one to be explored. I think this word has been a "victim" of restricted perceptions. will think about that.
Happy Gratitude day to u all! Hasta la vista
Mia -mia moon sista, -- you're a total hoot! I have to wipe the brandy off my 'puter from so much howling! I was so on the prowl the other day, hunting time for the Pandy girl....I bagged some and then had to throw them back, wrongfully smelling or something. Anyhow not the one I wanted and he ain't biting just yet. Yet walking proud all sexy, totally a confidence thing. I can just see you doing it too, bitch cells screaming and Mia all showered in hormones, you are too much! I want to use those phrases sometime! if you don't mind? lol....Me I got one hairy leg out of the cocoon, wings are flapping. Impatient. Hormone showers galore! I'm HUNGRY!!!! Mia, I can't wait to hear what you do next! :P In gratitude to you too!
DeleteI have to add the following video - it makes me laugh...
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOnIqWuSCIk
This is a great example of both my dark sense of humor and the "fantasies" I have (mostly when dealing with co-workers these days, but...).
At any rate, the movie, as a whole, made me laugh, but the hammer/nail thing made me think of it.
LOL!
@Pandy: Backattcha! Ma and the Unholy Spawn are sawing logs and the turkey carcass soup is just about degreased. Mmmm the best part of T-day really is the leftovers...and the self loathing. *grin*
DeleteI like that: Gratitude Day.
DeleteI think gratitude is under-rated these days -
lolol I can totally see that being you :P
Delete@HL: so droll u r . After coffee I will snuggle down & watch the you tube vid you mentioned. I bet your Unholy Spawn will grow up to be very interesting people. Their ages/genders are...? If you don't mind my asking. Have they presented any SP predilections yet? :)
DeleteHi Pandy,
DeleteJr is five and sis is one. Jr is really the "unholy spawn" at this point, sis is very sweet; almost pathologically so... *grin*
I put off having kids until I worked out the worst of my "wiggles." As a result, I make very different choices than my parents (old school, Eastern European, alcoholic hard asses).
Having said that, Jr is very much like me - and then some. I wasn't really "bonded" to anyone as a child, so I wasn't inclined to listen to anyone else from an early age. He seems to be bonding well with Ma and his sister (and me - that's a whole, different topic; me finally "feeling" what bonding is all about...), so I think/hope he follows a different, better arc than me.
He does have my intensity and energy and is displaying many of my characteristics He likes to make an entrance and take control - it's so funny to watch; then there's the "negotiations" between him and Ma Haller - hysterical!!!
I think the most telling thing I see in him is the flash of glee that comes into his eyes and the grin that spreads across his face when he sees chaos. He, like me, get's off on it. That is the impulse/drive that I am keeping an eye on and looking for ways to channel into positive activities.
.... just something else.... when you say "I see in him is the flash of glee that comes into his eyes and the grin that spreads across his face when he sees chaos. He, like me, get's off on it. That is the impulse/drive that I am keeping an eye on and looking for ways to channel into positive activities"
DeleteI came to realise that been a "role model" is not the best way to teach your kids... IT IS THE ONLY WAY.
You only teach them through who you are, not what you want them to see. So I believe if a parent want to teach a kid to chanel his natural struggles into something positive . Then you gotta be very honest with your own struggles and show how you transform this intense energy into creation.
you teach them by showing how you do you continuous "self-construction" (as you said :).... and letting them also teach you!
Hi HL, One thing I appreciate from people is a straight answer. I usually get hung up on passive-aggressive types who are unwilling or unable to do that. So SP's are such a nice change of pace! :)) (Even if they are outright lying at least it's not both yes and no and maybe in the same breath!
DeleteI haven't got any kids so it's always fun to be the objective observer of others' kids. Not sure I could have seen my own objectively, especially since I have yet to work out my inner wrinkles even as the outer ones stamp themselves on my face!
What kinds of chaos does Jr notice...or does he create it? Sounds like he has 'Ma" wrapped around his little finger already!
HLHailer you NAILED IT with this film! Gonna watch it tomorrow lol
DeleteHi Mia and Pandy,
DeleteProbably the most accessible example is our yellow lab. He's from a hunting line and has a lot of energy and a hair trigger. When the baby (sis) is sleeping I am particularly stern in my corrections when he barks (vocal commands - I'm not a "dog kicker"...). Jr has always giggled when he sees and hears me act aggressive - the bigger my reaction, the harder he laughs. We can be out in public and when he sees people acting out he will start giggling in the same way. He enjoys conflict -
He does manufacture chaos to get attention - lots of kids do that, so I don't read too much into that.
As to Ma Haller - it's more like the war of the wills with those two. The thing you have to know about Ma is that she is the embodiment of "the iron fist in the velvet glove." I've watched her, by being charming, get whole rooms of people dancing to her tune. She really is a brilliant and shameless manipulator (she steadfastly refuses to accept it as manipulation, just to be "fair"). She burns people out by the score, but watching her operate is something to behold.
The problem is that Jr has already figured out her game and turned it on her. And that's where the fireworks begin. Being her partner and having been subjected to her ways for years, I can't help but laugh and root for him...all while trying not to undermine her. One of the joys of what I call "The Connubial Cha Cha."
Enjoy Confessions of a Dangerous Mind - a very fun movie. I was always trying as a tween, unsuccessfully, to get on The Gong Show - I tried roping several friends into my plans. LOL! Those were the days...
And yes, Mia, you are soooo right: so much of what kids learn, they learn from us. I try really hard to show my kids a better way to act and to work on understanding themselves.
DeleteConnubial cha-cha- lol @ HL! I loved your post! Oh those tangled webs and intricacies of shared lives. I hope one day to have the presence of mind to mate and be a conscientious observer myself. No luck thus far- I fall into the well each time always forgetting my ladder! And Cell phone! Time's a wasting! But I do enjoy vicariously your experiences, HL...and the whole reason for the drama is it makes life fun and interesting. I could never imagine sitting around on the couch watching the tube each night with a man who acquiesced to all my demands. Gimme a challenge or gimme death! My best regards to "Ma". Sounds like you got yourself a winner!!!
DeleteHi Pandy - Ma Haller and I...I'd say we are well matched. 8)~
DeleteHey sister moon :) and HLHailer.... had to share this video from one of my favourites teachers "Teal Swan". Synchronically she spoke about Projections this week!
DeleteFound it to be very appropriate to what we explored here this week!
Good weekend to u all!
http://youtu.be/9jFBhJSgw0M?list=UU1KIUp4PNCyIwCPTq1hYzWQ
Lengedary hahaha . I think we have a piece of Art there! some new inspirational vocabulary better then a preach! I had to print it out to put in my journal!
ReplyDeletePANDY IS OUT AND IS HUNGRY.... plus weekend is coming! brilliant
by sister moon! bless u! till soon lol
Mia,- Moon sister! I don't think one pond would be big enough fishing for the likes of you and me both casting our lines in the water! Maybe one of the Great Lakes, the one shaped like guy parts? lol --
DeleteWhat mischief can we get into today if everybody's in the mall? later! xoxo
You're gonna go far, kid
ReplyDelete