Says a reader:
I don't think sociopathy is inherently some kind of evil thing upon humanity. They are useful people for tasks that most can't do. But I don't think you fit the bill of sociopathy. You fit the bill for a type of antisocial personality disorder that a normal person can obtain, but with the disorder can perform the tasks of a sociopath, but I don't think you're a sociopath.
Well, perhaps you are if you take sociopath as learned and psychopath as inherent... but if you don't do such a thing like modern diagnosis does, and you simple let all the learned APDs take their form in the various other names, you definitely are not a sociopath.
I think you're just among one of the more common "express pathological capable", and you're much more similar to an empath than you care to admit (because empathic personality is achievable by every person not sociopathic). Sociopathy is born, or irreversibly instilled by damage or early 'wiring'.
A sociopath can not actually love, because love means to value the person and stay by them even though you found something you think might be a better time. Sociopaths don't do such a thing. You seem to be able to do such a thing. I think you just have one of those very intense APDs that isn't sociopathy that is just self indulging and maintaining child-like behavior.
I don't mean any offense, it's just what I'm noticing compared to what I've researched.
M.E.: No offense taken. If sociopaths can't love at all, then I must not be a sociopath because I feel like I feel love.
Reader:
So the brain varies in many different ways and people just fall along it, of course you know this based on what I've read. The way your describe stuff puts you very analytical. I think that's just the way a person should strive to be. I feel like everyone has it in them to want to hate, cause harm, dislike, "see what if".
Also, there's this way of thinking that basically anyone can accomplish, where one puts oneself as an observer of life like a show to watch, or one actively participates. I feel like a lot of people just observe, do "what if" and really see no one as important.
Once one immerses one's self into life as something that is important to survival, and so on, and realizes cooperation with a healthy sense of caution is important, it is all better, in my opinion. What with the possibility of life spans somehow miraculouly growing exponentially if some kind of technological singularity breaks lose, however unlikely it is to happen. I'm just saying, it's the way most people just act without realizing why they act that way. I really had to analyze this myself and understand how being good is important.
M.E.: I think I understand a little what you're saying. You're saying that this mindset, that you also share or admire, is normal (or at least natural) and probably better (or more logical?) then the other way of being. But the fact that there is another way of being that most people are that leads to completely different ways of relating to the world and others is sort of what I mean. I understand that people can be sociopathic without being sociopaths. I also believe the current trend in conceptualizing sociopathy is to see it as a spectrum, with people expressing certain traits more than others but all sharing the same basic thought processes. And I also understand sociopathy to be quite common, at least 1% and as much as 4% of the population. So I'm not really one of these people that think that sociopathy is a rare thing and that there is a bright line separating sociopath from normal (and particularly not sociopathic from normal). And yes, of course thinking sociopathically has advantages (for both the individual and society) -- otherwise it wouldn't have arisen as an evolutionary adaptive trait shared by a significant portion of the population.
Reader:
I also just want to point out that the more I try to figure out the reason people do things different, the more they're just similar but raised different. The reason someone gives me for a particularly striking social deviation has always been because this is my experience (or come to find lack of an experience that is common). So of everyone is so different in some analytical way, most people seem to be powerful computers that are simply capable of preferring anything, really.
And I just read one of your latest articles about caring. Tying into what I said last time, and remembering how most people describe children as sociopaths of the worst kind. I really believe people's default level of caring originates from upbringing. Its usually useful. Work together, get more done. Don't feel passive aggressive or be hurtful just for fun, feel more relaxed and ready for tasks. But one should take the power in themselves to not only re-evaluate if they should care less, because some of it is burdensome and pointless... Because what if there are other things to care about?
Intellectually, one may not care about strangers, but if one can train oneself to identifying within strangers the altruistic good behavior (that remains cautious, mind you) then one can safely indulge themselves in on that behavior, only ever going too far to help strangers when identifying such demeanor.
I don't think sociopathy is inherently some kind of evil thing upon humanity. They are useful people for tasks that most can't do. But I don't think you fit the bill of sociopathy. You fit the bill for a type of antisocial personality disorder that a normal person can obtain, but with the disorder can perform the tasks of a sociopath, but I don't think you're a sociopath.
Well, perhaps you are if you take sociopath as learned and psychopath as inherent... but if you don't do such a thing like modern diagnosis does, and you simple let all the learned APDs take their form in the various other names, you definitely are not a sociopath.
I think you're just among one of the more common "express pathological capable", and you're much more similar to an empath than you care to admit (because empathic personality is achievable by every person not sociopathic). Sociopathy is born, or irreversibly instilled by damage or early 'wiring'.
A sociopath can not actually love, because love means to value the person and stay by them even though you found something you think might be a better time. Sociopaths don't do such a thing. You seem to be able to do such a thing. I think you just have one of those very intense APDs that isn't sociopathy that is just self indulging and maintaining child-like behavior.
I don't mean any offense, it's just what I'm noticing compared to what I've researched.
M.E.: No offense taken. If sociopaths can't love at all, then I must not be a sociopath because I feel like I feel love.
Reader:
So the brain varies in many different ways and people just fall along it, of course you know this based on what I've read. The way your describe stuff puts you very analytical. I think that's just the way a person should strive to be. I feel like everyone has it in them to want to hate, cause harm, dislike, "see what if".
Also, there's this way of thinking that basically anyone can accomplish, where one puts oneself as an observer of life like a show to watch, or one actively participates. I feel like a lot of people just observe, do "what if" and really see no one as important.
Once one immerses one's self into life as something that is important to survival, and so on, and realizes cooperation with a healthy sense of caution is important, it is all better, in my opinion. What with the possibility of life spans somehow miraculouly growing exponentially if some kind of technological singularity breaks lose, however unlikely it is to happen. I'm just saying, it's the way most people just act without realizing why they act that way. I really had to analyze this myself and understand how being good is important.
M.E.: I think I understand a little what you're saying. You're saying that this mindset, that you also share or admire, is normal (or at least natural) and probably better (or more logical?) then the other way of being. But the fact that there is another way of being that most people are that leads to completely different ways of relating to the world and others is sort of what I mean. I understand that people can be sociopathic without being sociopaths. I also believe the current trend in conceptualizing sociopathy is to see it as a spectrum, with people expressing certain traits more than others but all sharing the same basic thought processes. And I also understand sociopathy to be quite common, at least 1% and as much as 4% of the population. So I'm not really one of these people that think that sociopathy is a rare thing and that there is a bright line separating sociopath from normal (and particularly not sociopathic from normal). And yes, of course thinking sociopathically has advantages (for both the individual and society) -- otherwise it wouldn't have arisen as an evolutionary adaptive trait shared by a significant portion of the population.
Reader:
I also just want to point out that the more I try to figure out the reason people do things different, the more they're just similar but raised different. The reason someone gives me for a particularly striking social deviation has always been because this is my experience (or come to find lack of an experience that is common). So of everyone is so different in some analytical way, most people seem to be powerful computers that are simply capable of preferring anything, really.
And I just read one of your latest articles about caring. Tying into what I said last time, and remembering how most people describe children as sociopaths of the worst kind. I really believe people's default level of caring originates from upbringing. Its usually useful. Work together, get more done. Don't feel passive aggressive or be hurtful just for fun, feel more relaxed and ready for tasks. But one should take the power in themselves to not only re-evaluate if they should care less, because some of it is burdensome and pointless... Because what if there are other things to care about?
Intellectually, one may not care about strangers, but if one can train oneself to identifying within strangers the altruistic good behavior (that remains cautious, mind you) then one can safely indulge themselves in on that behavior, only ever going too far to help strangers when identifying such demeanor.
IF M.E. is a sociopath-A big IF, she is a high functioning sociopath.
ReplyDeleteShe has a very high I.Q., of that there is no doubt. It just might be that things
come easier to her then most. People have a natural contempt towards others
that they look down on. A contempt for weakness. They torment them to get a
raise out of them. For passing thrills. Rape and murder often go together. The
voilence center and the sexual center of the brain sit side by side.
This society is no doubt becoming more "sociopathic." At the rate things are
going, it will soon be that only the "sociopathic" will survive. The high functioning
should have no difficulity. The will team together and wipe out the weakling
empaths, and the anaminalistic low functioning sociopaths.
I do not think a sociopath could keep this kind of blog, just too big of a commitment. Also, sociopath would get bored of it and start doing something else.
ReplyDeleteThis blog has been running for 6 years... there is no way a sociopath would be interested in doing this for 6 years.
DeleteAnything is possible with enough motivation
DeleteOr maybe sociopathy is nothing to be afraid of by society. And ME puts a new label on the term.
ReplyDeleteIt's the psychopath that you should be scared of. I don't use the terms interchangeably because to me there are major distinct differences in each.
Both will be diagnosed as having aspd. But a sociopath is capable of feeling emotions, shorter lived, rational in thinking.
A psychopath would kill there own mother with absolutely no remorse even in the years to follow.
And an empath and sociopath might as well. But there is still a sense of remorse in each. The level of remorse varies. A empath might feel the feelings of guilt &shame and might even destroy themselves from the pain experienced afterwards. A sociopath would feel remorse ( what an idiotic thing to do) but might be able to carry on with life with not such of a burden to carry. They feel the guilt, but turn their minds over quicker. Not that they don't feel guilt, it's just more logically compartmentalized.
DeleteOverall, don't kill anyone, especially yr mother. ;) .
ASPD is the label, there is no sociopath or psychopath.. and trying to find differences between them is just trying to find meaning for the words.
DeleteSorry to say, you're misinformed. And i don't mean that in a cocky way. :)
DeleteWet, what you wrote about "remorse" is imprecise. remorse is anguish. most sociopath's don't feel that much. you described a sociopath's experience of regret ( aw shucks, I wish I hadn't made that mistake), but called it remorse.
Deletei can't recall feeling remorse. i have plent of regrets - all i have to do is think of the past and what I could have done that would have turned out better.
:) ah, yes I see what yr saying as well.
DeleteHi Wet,
DeleteI'll bite - what are the differences? Not trying to be antagonistic - I've read lots of interpretations. There are some things that seem to come up somewhat consistently, but mostly I find that people use whatever definitions suite their argument.
Anyone who can sit through law education in the United States (very different on other parts of the world) can do anything. So, it's not a capabiity issue with ME.
ReplyDeleteThe question is what's the motivation? 'Money' is a powerful part of the answer. So is 'doing something.'
Not sure what else ME is doing nowadays. Her book and TV appearance created some money-making opportunity but also took away potential employment in large institutions of any kind. The world is ready to employ a schizophrenic lawyer as a faculty member as it's perceived to be a disease that can be treated by medication (won't name the lady, but google ted talk) but a proud sociopath is viewed as an uncontrollable, undesirable associate to keep.
ME's best bet is to be the leader of whatever she is doing, like Steve Jobs, so this blog is one. Seeing the Manolo Blahnik ad yesterday and Cox today I hope that ads bring some steady income for her. Posting here means being a big support to her.
I wonder if her biological clock started ticking and am curious who'd like to marry her, and more importantly who she would like to marry. She has so much back story with the book and her being Mormon that it'd take a miracle to find her a good match (using the general conventions of what a good match is for a woman).
I wish her the best.
Sceli, Saks is more than a schizophrenic lawyer. She is a MacArthur fellow and a highly acclaimed scholar. The way she describes it in her book and her talks she always cultivated a network to support her too. People liked her and saw the value of keeping her around. It isn't just a matter of what disease you do or don't have...
DeleteBTW one of the fields with the highest fraction of socios is law, from what I've read. Some of these folks are profs in law schools. There are lots of socios teaching law based on these statistics. There are also some other schizophrenics no doubt. You just don't hear about them.
You are not suggesting that some of the well-established professors would keep their jobs if they came out as sociopaths like ME did, are you? If so, I'd like to hear more about that.
DeleteI don't know the answer to that question. It would depend on their support within the system and how valuable people saw them. This would also apply to people with schizophrenia who also tend to be seen as 'dangerous'. It depends a lot on the place, the people in the environment and the level of accomplishment of the person. On the other hand, there is no particular advantage in general to do so and risk involved, but I do think it is possible -- yes. People with schizophrenia are also shunned.
DeleteIf they were well established and had tenure, then yes indeed. Tenure makes a huge difference.
I can also speculate that if ME had waited till she had achieved tenure, it would have been quite hard to fire her. The university would have had a huge lawsuit on their hands.
DeleteAccoomplishments mean a lot in the USA, but social acceptance of sociopathy in an individual in higher education would be a whole new level of maturity that currently does not exist in my opinion. Nash case/movie has romanticized schizophrenia already and academic schizophrenics so far have been handled in a don't stir the waters way.
DeleteLaw suit against loss of tenure means one-year's worth of salary, not a dent in the university budget. The university would possibly even advertise it as being such a caring institution and increase its enrollment. Not saying this is the right thing or not, just sharing past observations.
As I recall correctly ME had accepted a new position when she came out, and the position got pulled off. There may currently be a law suit because of that. She may also have another law suit going against her former employer, I don't know why she lost that job, she may have a case. So, lol, if two law suits are going on this blog could feel like her church.
discrimination lawsuits on firing a prof with tenure are much more costly than that.
Deletehttp://www.uky.edu/Provost/APFA/Department_Chairs/Rest_of_story.pdf
Deleteread this. it is not even about firing someone with tenure but litigating a tenure decision. It's a huge burden to the university.
Written by an insurance salesman, DoctorSciFi. Sorry, but far from reflecting reality or common majority. Great article though, in terms of encouraging faculty who've been turned down to sue, or better get a membership with United Educators who work similarly to AAUP, seelling imaginary support, pushing its members to settle for one year's salary right from the beginning.
DeleteI have a feeling you're an untenured faculty. Your best bet in life will be to jump from one university to another and keep increasing your salary in the process. Don't bite the tenure bait and work for cheap.
Sceli, I was a tenured university professor for many years in different countries. thanks for your advise. the best thing to do is actually to have more than one job offer at the same time. this is a good way to up your salary significantly.
DeleteI disagree with you about the trepidation universities have about lawsuits from tenured faculty members. it's in the contract what you can be fired for in that case and is extremely limited. I think we just agree to disagree. That's why you hardly ever hear of tenured faculty being fired. If they are and they are not stupid it's on the web.
someone who has been fired is no longer compelled to have to go through the union.
i pointed to one article but there's lots more on the web.
and about real world experience, I knew maybe 1000 people who would have contacted me by email if anyone with tenure they knew had been fired. This kind of news would have gone around the community like wildfire. It never happened. And I can tell you these were not the most well behaved bunch...
Deletei havent written about this due to privacy and havent seen the relevance either till now. I can say though that in my view -- to make up for the extreme difficulty universities have firing tenured professors, they invent especially wonderful ways of getting people to leave volutarily sometimes -- or they shift the payments onto other institutions.
Deletesomehow tenure is still sacrosanct in comparison to employment security elsewhere.
actually I have got some delightful little stories of these kinds of machinations and how it works,
Deletefor instance a tenured faculty member can be told they are still employed but are not allowed on campus. still being employed the person is compelled to go to the union. then this drags out with a blackhole of information getting lost into the myriad hr, admin, department, you and the union 'communications', they just drag it out forever and any sane person would look for the 'voluntary' option to leave because they use a lawyer whilst they are still employed. this is just a beginning of the turnscrew -- extra evaluations, insulting meetings...
this is all because it is so difficult to fire. they don't want to do that and would rather loose all the money and time they spend getting rid of you for years instead.
there are lots of stories i've heard...
"or the 'voluntary' option to leave because they use a lawyer whilst they are still employed. "
Deletecorrection "or the 'voluntary' option to leave because they are not able to use an outside lawyer to represent them to the university whilst they are still employed. this is a key issue.
Thank you, DocSciFi.
DeleteTenured many years in different countries? I'm not sure I follow what that means. A typical tenured faculty remains stuck in one university in the USA. Where are you based? Who are these other countries granting tenure? What made you leave a tenured position in the US (assuming one of those was US)?
I sound nosy, but I really am curious.
I won't go into many details. If one wants a bigger salary and a better position, you can apply and network for jobs in any country one would be happy to live in. That just makes your market bigger. I also had personal connections in foreign countries. Yeah I was tenured in 3 different countries as I moved from job to job over a long career. I moved for the opportunities (startup, salary, support, teaching duties etc., extra positions) and for personal reasons.
Deletebut I have also seen the inner workings of these kinds of asylums.
I think you played the best game, good for you. It takes a certain person in the US to even consider living in another country leaving a tenured position behind. There has to be certain pains and lack of availability of better opportunities without leaving the country for both financial and 'academic status game' considerations. I guess Australia is one, as they are willing to pay up for Americans to go there, also the oil rich countries. Considering the cost of living I doubt that anywhere else in Europe would pay, but then again there are always exceptions and unique cases.
DeleteI think it's great that you went all around. I wish more people did that. I'm not a big fan of the tenure system, it kills freedom of faculty to move around in my mind, it sucks their spirit. A lot of artifical values established around tenure in the name of freedom of speech. I am a firm believer that tenured faculty has less freedom of speech as they figure out one way or the other.
Can you say with full heart that you did the best by staying in academia a long time? Any thought that you should've gotten out into the world at a younger stage?
i don't know what you mean by the best. i wanted to be a scientist since i was 8 and i read about albert einstein. it was a dream, a child's dream all the way...
Deletei loved doing research, really did, till i didn't. i loved working with many of the young and older people that i did. i had personal freedom to do what i wanted. it's quite a charmed existence in some ways.
academic politics is a different matter. i think getting rid of tenure would turn it into a much more exploitative system.
Sceli, what do you do?
DeleteI have something on-going at the time, but the correct answer to your question is: I dream.
DeleteI dream of a setup where people like you and me (meaning folks who already have been through a significant career, done with their first love of career) co-exist till death in a very nurturing, stimulating environment in terms of music, arts, philosophy, and writing without needing to spend time with mundane tasks such as cooking/cleaning (unless they want to) and without needing to pay excessive amounts monthly.
Is that a good dream? A viable dream? A cult? An island? Join RA?
I read yesterday's posts. It was quite educational as I knew nothing about 'ginger' story, I had not even understood when Dr. Ginger had answered 'I'm ginger' to my NPD-BPD ballpark comment. Now, I'm well-versed.
ReplyDeleteWhat got me thinking is how much South Park paid the guy to get his permission to use his lines. Those were very powerful lines and before understanding the full story I thought 'oh, now I understand, the guy stole the lines from South Park.' So, kudos to the guy, he should be a writer. That grandma explained a lot as to what he's raised with, tragedy turned comedy right and left. With your (HLH and Ginger) collective selections of a few videos you put together a movie that I really enjoyed watching and understanding.
Lol, well I'm not really a "ginger", I'm a blonde, but it does make me laugh watching his meltdown saying "everyone is calling me a big fat ginger", or " I think ginger is a slanderous word", lolol. And actually southpark made a satire about him, he didn't steal it from southpark. I luv southpark, especially cartman. He reminds me of my son, fat and evil ( that's tongue-in-cheek) :P:P I worry sometimes on this site that people won't
Deletepick up on my tongue-in-cheekiness. Btw, when I said " I'm just a Ginger", I was more mocking the current state of our understanding of personality disorders in the field of psychology. It gets very frustrating really. We try hard to fit ourselves and others in to categories even if they don't quite fit. This is a very simplistic, crude understanding of humans, and doesn't provide the whole picture. It gives us pieces to the puzzle, but it still hasn't been completely solved. It's why I encourage others to examine things from a more critical perspective. Humans are very complex creatures, and I hate to see them reduced to such simplicity.
:) I get it about you, really fun actually.
DeleteIn the past it was NotMe, sort of positioning like you do. She used to lighten up this place.
Hi Doc,
DeleteI agree - that kid is a riot! It's a case of not only is the "thing" funny, but the reaction is exponentially funnier.
I love Tosh.O - can't watch it much because of Spawn. The Dr. Phil part was particularly funny. I have never been a fan of that douche bag (apologies to douche bags) and I enjoyed Tosh's take.
Yeah - I've come to understand the present classification system as...shall we say "lacking." However, having said that, using them as archetypes is helpful for managing organizational dysfunction. But, I'm not trying to make anyone "better." I'm doing a job by trying to "guide" people to what is needed.
Nihilistic Mind, I thought some of what RA is writing (under his new name with nihilism) is a good advice for you, what do you think? If you feel anger when you read something or hear something learn to pay extra attention to those moments. What angers you is often the inability of your subconscious failing to tell you the same thing to your conscious. These are amazing learning opportunities. Learn to quickly identify your anger, and focus n your own anger at the moment as opposed to the other person. People are not important, what's churning biologically and emotionally in you is important. Trying to identify all that will give you time before your attack even if an attack is warranted. You'll be calm and calculated when you attack. Speed is only necessary in a death-life situation, otherwise it is truly over-rated.
ReplyDeleteYou asked me on my take of giving children a straightforward answer. Absolutely, YES.
BUT: This is a huge but, NM. Even when parents think they are giving the straight-forward answers they may not be. Intentions are hard to pull off. Interpretations are dime a dozen. On any scene there are internal feelings/capabilities of the parent and the child and add to that interaction effect. So, I honestly think it's 50-50 one will get a straightforward answer to deep psychological questions in life.
You are young and trying to figure it all out so soon because you're already inconvenienced significantly by life. If you're enjoying any of the analytical type thinking we seem to have been following here lately I'd say take a shot at this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Take-Charge-your-Life-Psychology/dp/1462037437
Like here, you'll see some of that is crazy but some of that will speak too you and most importantly share it with your parents after you read it. I think of child-rearing similar to dog-training, where it's the trainers who need to be trained.
Sceli, I'm actually content with my current life most of the time, and theoretically I have reached a state in which it isn't necessary for survival to move on and understand or change any further. I do this partly out of mere interest/boredom and partly out of vanity. There's always something I can work on, and I like to succeed in whatever goal I set for myself. c:
Delete"People are not important" I used to be extremely presumptuous and narcissistic. I deeply felt that everyone beside me is scum and unworthy of existence for quite some years. However I chose to get rid of this mindset two years ago and don't feel it'd be a good idea to step back toward this direction.
I think some of what RA has to say rings true for me, but I rather like to learn on my own. My moral understanding is mostly from soap operas and similar tv series, easily accessible and something one can't miss. Sometimes I think they try to educate the masses in telling emotional expressions and moral decision-taking through tv xD
The book looks interesting, I'll have a closer look on it when I got more spare time. (I currently read three books and I'm not used to that anymore...)
My parents wouldn't want to hear about something like that though, they are kind of esoteric spiritual angel believers almost-fanatics. Psychology doesn't exist for them, not even school medicine really does, they talk about light & love as the universal forces. They'd tell me to ask the universe about what I want and I'll get it if I really want it. Actually a workable believe, but sometimes just too irrational to cope with.
About the straight-forward answers to kids, I wasn't specifically thinking about parents but rather people in general.
I see what you mean though, and it appeared to me too that parent/children conversations tend to be much more complicated most times.
NM, how do you relate to your parents now?
Delete"They'd tell me to ask the universe about what I want and I'll get it if I really want it." Yeah I got the Santa Claus bit programming. It has it's charms, truly it does.
It also has this massive downside if it is actually not possible to get what you want and the consequences for trying are harsh.
Doc, it's all fantastic. I got everything I always wanted. Yesterday even my long wished for new laptop fell from the sky. Though I had to return it due to the damage it took upon crashing on the ground.
DeleteNah, to be serious, I don't really care. It makes them happy, so they shall believe what they want as long as they don't urge me to believe the same. I won't ask them for help in most situations though.
Good morning, HLH. I saw your cute/sincere/real reactions to getting attention, good for you.
ReplyDeleteWith my crush remark there was some provocation there (not denying what I said, just adding to explain my motivation in sharing) to see where it'd all lead within the regulars, and what I observed was quite mature. This current group is very different than the past. And, that gives me hope in learning further, so I stick around.
Fuck off.
Delete:) Anon, you should've signed it as HLH for better effect.
DeleteI totally see your point though, I'd have said the same--if I could.
Hi Sceli,
DeleteI often think of the lines from the Kipling poem "If:"
"If you can meet with triumph and disaster
and treat those two imposters just the same."
I guess I try to have fun with it - there were some good chuckles in there.
Hi, Hal.
DeleteI like that, the cool of treating triumph and disaster similarly, the grace it affords someone, the personal power. An existence with passion and indifference, without giving up either.
Perpetual sarcasm remark was funny, with the goatie. 8)• is more like a goatie to me, how long is your goatie.
I agreed that I should stay with type 1, it shields me, would work well in tirumph or disaster as it suggests a certain level of indifference.
What did you feel when you had your first child?
Hi Sceli,
DeleteNow THAT is an interesting topic, but it does need a little context. I've mentioned that Ma is an MFT and we talk about my childhood from time to time - hers was as "Norman Rockwell" as mine was "H. R. Geiger."
One of the elements that we've talked about recently was attachment issues. She was challenging the BPD with PTSD and/or Attachment Disorder. Not so much because she doesn't believe I'm BPD, but because she's looking for ways to reconcile it. (I joke that one of her favorite movies is "So I Married an Axe Murderer;" She can tell everyone, "so, I married a part time sociopath." ;p)
Back to my son -
When he was born, there were about two weeks that were utterly surreal. Both emotional and cognitive. The cognitive I described as looking at my life in a mirror "un-shattering." Lots of connections about my life - it was quite intense.
The emotional end though...that took some time to understand. What I feel for my son (and my daughter) is unlike anything I have ever felt for another person. It is a love and an acceptance that goes both ways - I feel it for them and I feel it FROM them.
And it's the "from them" part that really floored me. It still takes my breath away. I have never been able to feel loved or accepted by anyone - especially my own family (mom, dad, sis, and all the rest are empathically compromised and never trusted). But my kids...wow!!!
I have never "shut it off" either - not sure I could if I wanted to.
Never mind how I've ever felt for and from romantic partners...still chewing that over in light of this "new" feeling.
The goatee is about 4" (100mm) - until I have to interview for a new job. Maybe I'll switch the emoticon then -
I'm assuming Ma is your wife? Ma not for mother?
DeleteYou made me understand how I must have made my dad feel, being loved. I doubt he got that from mom or my siblings or his parents. He's not a very lovable person.
Sorry you did not feel loved by the family you were born into. I know how that feels personally. I am yet to figure out how much of that has to do with me, that I couldn't love them myself and projected that unto them or they just could not love, period. Never sure, and in all honesty couldn't care less about it anymore. I tired myself out trying to figure it all out.
I thought I loved dad growing up but not so sure if I still do. I hope your babies and you stay with the feeling.
4" goatee is some serious goatee.
Hi Sceli,
DeleteThanks again! I don't regret the family I was born into. It's not the life I want for my kids, but given what my parents had to cope with (WWII as kids, a failed revolution, moving to a different culture - never mind THEIR parents...whoa!), I'm not too judgmental of them (anymore - there was a time when I was young where I was quite angry with them, but I let go of that a long time ago).
It took me some years, but I ultimately came to see that they really did the best they could given their circumstances. They were not bad people (though, they did some things during the revolution that might have...changed them). They were people dealing with some pretty unfortunate circumstances.
My chaotic childhood (after mom got sober and divorced dad, there was a steady stream of drunks and junkies renting rooms from us - that was interesting...) is something that I actually do value. It's not ideal and my life might have been very different, but that is not what happened.
I guess I'm not too prone to regrets, per se.
I was reading about DBT and the idea of "radical acceptance." That's one of the things I have used many times - it's helpful.
The goatee's been longer - got it to 6" at one point. I wanted to grow a full "hillbilly" beard, but Ma (yes, my wife and the mother of my children) put her foot down. 8)~
I must say it is very interesting to have found this site. The newer posts are much more informative. I always knew I didn't feel like other's and it really has never bothered me. Like most of you I am sometimes seen as a manipulator but I never thought anyone had or would pick up on my true self. My Mother recently told me that she has suspected, since I was very young, and felt pretty positive, since middle school. I was wondering if any of you had any experiences or thoughts on that.
DeleteAlso to HLHaller on being a parent
When I think about being a Mother, I like the idea of it and the image it reflects. I actually have pondered if having a child would make me feel something like selfless love. The idea is exciting, interesting and a bit scary. I do feel things on some degree like many of you have shared but I have never felt what traditionalists would call love and I think it comes from a very different place than everyone I know. I've come across manipulators before, but never someone like me, I appreciate being able to ask.
Hi Pat,
DeleteMy parents had no idea - they saw themselves as "completely normal" and it was "Americans" that were screwed up. The chalked it up to cultural differences (a whole different topic of interest for me). And I kind of bought it...but it never really quite fit.
Having children is something I've wanted since I was a young. I put it off for a variety of reasons - school, work - but mostly because I knew I was full "piss and vinegar" and needed to get that out and/or under control lest I make a mess of my kids.
There was no wondering about it for me - it is/was an imperative. We had some trouble getting pregnant with our first - that was a very dicey time for my BPD and did put me back in therapy (that guy was a knob tho - useless) for a while.
NAME? Stephen Kahn.
ReplyDeleteADDRESS? Whidbey Island, Washington state.
AGE? 70 years old.
RANK? I took a shower this morning and applied deodorant. I don't smell that rank yet.
SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER? 0XX-XX-XXX1
YOU ARE ACCUSED OF MURDER. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT. DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY? They were dead when I found them. They each had a gun in their hand when I came across their bodies. I am pretty sure each of them shot the other in the back at the same time.
ANYTHING ELSE? Shut the fuck up, you stupid jerks. Shove your heads up your asses. Have a nice day. I'm off to see my doctor to see if I will live another day.
Check this out:
Deletehttp://www.cnn.com/2014/12/17/health/healthy-aging/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
Looks like your 100 year old version.
Looks and words fit. You long live Stephen Kahn, you sure sound like a man who has nothing to lose. Just don't kill anyone.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.meetup.com/Whidbey-Island-Secularists/members/45936872/
lol that's Rad?
DeleteAm I the first person to have my full name appear on SW? Am I the first person to have my picture appear on SW? How stupid is that? My PA said, "Next time you have a TIA, take your pulse."
DeleteHow can I kill somebody if I don't have a pulse? How can I take my pulse if I don't have a pulse?
So, how are you feeling?
DeleteI decided one day I'll stop by and say hi to you on your island. Join your meet up without telling you who I am.
Maybe we'll have an SW Convention on your island. This has been discussed for a long time. We'd all buy one of those SW t-shirts and just show up, lol...
EN's island is probably better than the venue I was considering. It's the collection of low levels known as The Meeting of the Juggalos. Not at all highbrow from what I can tell but a fun romp of train wreaks for a weekend. And, I do enjoy watching train wreaks...
DeleteI'm already off from work for the holidays.
ReplyDeleteI have so much to do at home, but no real motivation to do them. Slacking kind of depression, not feeling sad kind, but I have remorse because I'm not having fun doing nothing either. There are some answers to some questions I need to be asking myself, I suppose.
I should either be productive or have some fun, that's my motto.
Now, you ask, why put your personal bs here. In all honesty, why not? On that note, I'll go force myself to do something. And, later come back here and read what SW has been up to. That's indeed fun.
This is an interesting thread.
ReplyDeleteThere is definitely a mistaken view out there that one is either a sociopath or one is not. Black or white. High or low. In or out. In a quantum world though, one can be alive and dead at the same time.l
I'm a diagnosed sociopath. I score on some but not all pointers. I can feel regret and remorse (although I feel like I intellectualize it). I've held the same job for over 7 years (although I've used my talents to keep it continually interesting). I can focus with a ferocious intensity on tasks, but I am capable maintaining that focus for ever if I feel it benefits me or mine.
We live in an increasingly media saturated world (and the media appear to be in reverse evolution mode, which id why things seem to be getting increasingly inane). Everything has a label, because labels suit media people, marketeers and imbeciles.
But it's not so simple as what we perceive and yet it is simultaneously so simple: it's the spectrum, stupid.
Zerothian.
Maybe you are misdiagnosed, as there is no such diagnose as sociopath.
DeleteAnyhow, i think this author is much more narcissistic than antisocial. Antisocial would mean tendency to crime at early age, and there was nothing about anything like that in the book of hers.
DeleteBut she does like to talk about herself, like the book.. this blog. Which is much more narcissistic tendency than antisocial.
I diagnose you as a diagnosing misdiagnostic and claim my ten pounds.
DeleteZerothian.
I'm trying to make sense of today's post. What exactly is ME thinking and saying? The post is all about her own situation. Re-assessing? Wanting to reassess?
ReplyDeleteA specific question related to some of her saying is my understanding of what 'quite common'. When you hear 'x is quite common' what do you think is the percentage of x in the universe x exists?
Here is something similar to what I understand by quite common:
Delete"Belt breakage used to be quite common. In 1969, retreaders reported a reject rate for glass-belted casings of 75 percent."
So, 1-4% rate of sociopaths in the general population to me is not quite common as ME says in this post.
In higher echelons of the society, though, relative to those in the lower echelons, sociopathic traits are quite common. Top management in big businesses (not mom and pop business or even a medium size business) is so remote from the lower ranks that most what they do would register as sociopathic if you asked the lower ranks.
Anyone in a winning string in life will have a very hard time empathizing with those who are not as blessed. Power has a blinding effect, successful businessman are in a shock when one day wife wants a divorce, children show their agitation, etc. They were on top of the world, no time or use for empathy in that situation apparently. So, were they sociopaths or in a period they were challenged empathically? I really don't know, but they sure were not liked by those who expected some empathy.
For a socio magnet, though
:) I'm so bored, you can tell. I've created a different kind of monologue, answering my own questions, lol...
DeleteThis is a sign of aging, too. Like RA, who can really get into long monologues. That's the direction I'm going in, need recovery...
Oh God no.
DeleteSceli, I really enjoy your monologues, and your other posts. How long have you been around?
DeleteI can tell your are outdoing any of us on the "wise". And now you say you are old. Time for me to retire my handle...
Your post at 709 was so full of wisdom. "What angers you is often the inability of your subconscious failing to tell you the same thing to your conscious."
This is the exact reason why being close to a sociopath may help you understand yourself better and make your life more interesting and even perhaps a happier person. Sociopaths know how to trigger feelings in you. Anger is only one of them. You need to understand yourself to withstand the "attack" of a sociopath. You need to analyze your feelings. All those neurotransmitters going around in your body. Analyzing your feelings is good, as long as you don't annihilate them. There lies the danger when getting too close to a sociopath. Or I should say a sociopath getting to you.
Almost finished reading James Fallon's book. From his perspective as a neuroscientist, psychopathy exists on a spectrum. I think most people here would agree; so how do we determine if someone is indeed a full blown psychopath? Possessing cold cognition and the warrior gene didn't make Fallon go out and murder anyone. To look at the scans of his brain, one would think he's a serial killer. (The neurological info is the best part of the book.) His writing portrays an altogether different, almost goofy picture.
ReplyDeleteI find M.E.'s book superior to Fallon's, in that she describe her interior thoughts and feelings with greater insight and depth. I also think, from her writing, that she is higher on the sociopathic scale than is Fallon. Her intelligence and understanding of emotions make her a unique spokes-person for sociopaths.
I am not horney. ♧
ReplyDeleteDoctorSciFiDecember 17, 2014 at 6:54 AM
ReplyDelete"Quite hilariously a simple "serial killers don't just stop killing" would have answered my question and would have prevented me from engaging too much in violence and killing."
NM, why would this answer have prevented you from doing these things? What does 'too much' mean, and what did you kill? What is your view on straightforward answers to these questions?
Doc, I wasn't really a rebellious kid but rather curious. I wanted to know everything and had (and still have) an excellent memory. My interests shifted rapidly from one subject to another, but only when I thought I understood. Telling me a precise fact that explained something very well could cause a shift in subject of interest.
If I don't find sufficient information there's a chance I get obsessed with a topic and seek to understand it even more than anything else, which can in some situations cause me to miss important tasks or make it hard to focus on much else in the mean time. That's what I'd call 'too much'. My last obsession were dogs.
Killing is a topic I rarely discuss in real life since I'm mostly (if not totally) neutral toward it, but most people get extremely emotional over it, which makes normal conversations almost impossible and rather annoying. If you want to talk with me about such a topic, it requires you to stay neutral. Just keep that in mind, k?
I should clarify beforehand, for most of my life I assumed that all living things had the same capacity for thoughts and feelings that I have. I didn't make a great difference between a snail, a frog, a cat and a human being. In fact, it's not even three years ago that I learned and understood how insects are incapable of having regular feelings.
Feeling wise I still don't differentiate between mammals, birds and people. Thought wise I know that there are quite some great differences in feelings and thought processes.
The original intent was to find out why killing is considered bad at all (since death is something natural) but it shifted quickly towards the question of what is lethal followed by the question of what modifies this experience.
I killed some squirrels, birds, a hedgehog, chicken and various insects. I didn't keep record about them or the places or times.
I investigated different kinds of killing and dying as well as what I would call torture today. I drowned a bee and revived it several times until it wouldn't wake up again. (This example is interesting because it was the first time I could consciously connect "staying underwater too long" with death.) I smothered a hedgehog in a similar way. I broke the neck of a chicken and felt its pulse subsiding. I picked out first the wings then the legs one by one of a fly and watched the reactions, then squashed it. I crushed a singing bird after inspecting the reactions to increasingly painful manipulations of its broken wing. I found a dying squirrel (rat poison, I suppose) and examined its progressively weaker reactions upon different manipulations until no reactions came anymore. Those are what were most remarkable among others. I lost interest in doing these activities and moved on to less physical methods, but haven't done anything along the lines in 4 or 5 years. Except for some personal incidents not that long ago.
I always plea euphemism free 100% truth answers to questions about all such topics, but I understand that a lot of people can't handle 100% truth.
NM, so at no point you felt any level of connection to these animals you killed. No emotional empathy as they were suffering? How old were you when you killed the last or was able to observed death without any feelings?
DeleteI'm curious what your parents' message was on death when you were young (younger than 6 yrs old)? Is there any chance they believed people are spiritually higher when they die, that death and dying is not somethig to be afraid of?
I can't imagine what life around people like your parents would be like. Sounds a bit fantastical, a bit stepped away from reality as the rest of the world believes. To you all that's normal, of course, so how can you compare your upbringing say to a household where people hardly had any food and it was all about real survival with no time or care for spirituality.
To tell someone tell it to universe and it'll happen is not a bad thing if this someone is an adult, but to a kid this is an extremely worthless statement. What does a kid learn from that? Sit and wait?
Are you the youngest child or the only child?
I noticed some of what I said to you came back in your earlier response in an out of context fashion. It's hard to communicate, I won't deliberate on that. But something you mentioned, watching soap operas and learning about life. That's the subject of a book called The 90 Minute Effect. One has to be very careful in basing life to feature or TV movies, very careful.
Last time I killed I must have been 16 years old, a dove I think. No emotional empathy, no connection. They weren't my pets after all. Observation of death was quite recently, some months ago my last pet mouse died. Her death struggle didn't touch me in the slightest but the realization she'll never be around anymore hit me hard.
DeleteThe whole spirituality started about 5 or 6 years ago, after my biological parents divorced (was 12 back then). Before that death was a taboo, something no-one talked about, but I knew the scientific view from early on: Lights out & darkness, nothing to be afraid about.
"(...) but to a kid this is an extremely worthless statement. What does a kid learn from that? Sit and wait?"
Still applicable to me. I still find it baffling to get this kind of advice when I seek for advice.
I'm the oldest of two, my lil' brother is about 3 years younger than me.
I don't know the book, but I know about the difficulties of acquiring practicable information from ty shows for real life. My problem was, and sometimes still is, that I don't have the basic knowledge about, eg. what is morally acceptable to talk about in public with friends. I was tested in psychiatry and scored high on pattern recognition and logic, which makes it easy for me to grab the essential information I need and replicate them in adapted forms where they fit.
:)
DeleteYou are an original here, NM I don't remember anyone who passed by here with your level of articulation at your age while being as disconnected as you are. They were all extremely angry and violent in their language. Maybe that was because they were not able to express themselves clearly as you typically do.
Would you hurt if you observed your brother's death?
Why did you get a pet mouse? Is it taking care of it that meant something for you? Was there any utilitarian reason?
Who do you live with? How do you pay for your expenses?
Do you have long-term goals? Any plans on a parasitic existence?
Thank you for the compliment, Sceli. c:
DeleteI ought to have a high level of articulation as the artist I am. Would be a shame to call myself a writer if I didn't care to write accordingly. Though I use google translator a lot.
I wouldn't hurt if I watched him die. He's a narc.
Mice are cute. I cared a lot for them, built a cage, fed them only best corns and kept their cage interesting so they didn't get bored. They had names and I taught them tricks. I enjoyed sitting in front of the cage watching them for hours, they always found new ways of entertaining me. They actually all had distinct personalities, that was fascinating.
Utilitarian of some sort, it showed my parents how trustworthy and responsible I can be. xD
I live with my dad and step mum, my brother lives with my mum and step dad. My parents pay mostly for me, but I've got a bit of money each month from the the state. I don't cost much though.
I've got a huge set of goals and future plans, all equally unrealistic, from my p.o.v. at least. The original set I established three years ago after several people pointing out I need plans, included becoming a psychiatrist, a lead-guitarist in a blackmetal band, a successful serial killer, a medic of some sort, a world-famous dog psychologist, a science-fiction writer, a scientist, or an investment banker. Now I study biomedicine, and still have no concrete plans on how this will go on. I think half of the list is still very much in reach. xD
The next three to six years I plan to live off my parents, though sooner or later I'll have to get a job. Rather later.
Nature of war and conflict is steadily changing in the world. It used to be between neighbors, between neighboring countries, there was something about proximity and content. You did not hear a country go to war with a corporation in another country. And now, an amazing war between North Korea and a Japanese corporation's US branch. It's truly amazing, how the whole thing is developing. $44 million investment in th emovie, The Interview, will have no theatrical release, which could've meant over $200 million. Nort Korea successfuly destroyed one delivery path to the customers. Next is online streaming. The question is will Netflix perceive the hackers strong enough to attack its systems if it were to include The Interview in its portfolio? Will the attack stop with The Interview but simply carry on to destroy Sony from the movie business althogether? Will they target any outlet that streamline any Sony movie from any year? Sony as we know it is gone forever.
ReplyDeleteSomeone thought the joke could be on North Korea. Someone with traits that worked in the past (South Park, The Office). Someone, thankfully, who is already paid for its contribution, like the rest of the crew and the cast, except Sony.
Narcs are typically racist, and all those emails sure pointed out a huge level of narc culture in the institution. Can't wait to see a great documentary on this whole thing.
The exec was saying 'what, now all my years in this industry will be forgotten because of my email?' Something like that, she has not woken up yet.
It's so much fun bouncing back and forth between thinking I can fix myself and that I'm going to be this way forever. It's usually after hearing an opinion like this.
ReplyDeleteI think conceptualizing a "fix" for even mild sociopathy can lead to growth...but not change. I expect the same ol' lovely me for the rest of my days but with less fuck ups as I go on down the road.
Wish I could have these people step into my head and see the world my way for a while. Then they might get it.
Hi BKvS4,
DeleteI wouldn't call such a thing a "fix" but rather an adaptation - as you said, you fuck up less. But, you also understand more - so, there's that.
But yeah, once you're north of about 25, you're pretty much your "charming self." After that, it's really about figuring out how to do things in a more controlled and predictable manner (i.e. fuck up less).
Hi HL, some people never learn.
DeleteYeah, but the name shows some imagination, so I'm hopeful for this person -
Deleteoh I wasn't referring to the poster. oops! I was thinking regrettably of some people I know. Not everyone is capable of learning -- even if they are intelligent. If all problems are 'out there' -- ya know?
DeleteIn that case, AMEN! to that brother - I've seen some truly bone head moves of late by people that really ought to know better -
DeleteI'm past that 25 year mark but I wasn't "aware" until fairly recently. Not sure if knowing was helpful though. Labels are quite the bitch.
DeleteI'm trying to swing it to my advantage though. It helped explain some of my less functional tendencies. Now I just redirect them to clever but harmless things.
I.E. Instead of berating my clinically depressed roommate into a spiral of gloom over not cleaning up after himself in the kitchen (works because then he doesn't cook for a couple weeks) I've found other methods. Simple one is that when he uses the crock pot overnight I set the smoke detector off in the middle of the night to make him think he's set the condo on fire. He freaks out and runs downstairs to find nothing wrong...and assumes it's the crock pot. Thus lessening his usage of the kitchen and the crock pot.
I'm assuming that him not being depressed is better than waking up in the middle of the night and it still achieves my goal. Plus I can keep him longer as a paying resident as I'm not gaining "bad person" points.
Not a change in function, but growth in methods. I suppose adaptation is close to the right word.
Lol. actually short term sleep deprivation works against depression. I think it's effect is almost immediate. Not sure about long term... Maybe you do him a favour?
DeleteWhat's it like to become self-aware?
Eh, so it's not perfect. I'll work on it.
DeleteNot fun. I picked up this lady's book on a whim because I liked the cover. Haha.
I wanted to go running my mouth to people about it but learned that's a grievous error. I tried telling people I was schizoid for a while to see how that would go over...and you'd be amazed at the responses I got. Decided to keep it to myself after that.
Bank workers don't respond well to perceived threats. Nervy bunch.
lolol ...this is funny. I was mad at someone recently. She's a cripple, and I thought about slightly unscrewing the wheel on her walker so she falls. Man, SW is like my confessional. The one good thing I have going for me is I am able to visualize consequences for my behaviors. Trying not to ruin my career....I try to find outlets for my destructive tendencies where I can be destructive, but it benefits others.
DeleteBaron, why did you pick schizoid? I read elsewhere from a self-diagnosed psychopath that his version of psychopathy was like a schizoid who enjoys novelty and thrill seeking. I have no idea why.
DeleteSchizoids don't have a lot of emotions, but they don't really remind me of socios. They can be very sensitive, and shy, and do have a sense of morality.
DeleteIt was an easy sell. They're fairly similar. So I could pass my behaviors off as believable. They're like our long lost cousins that don't give a fuck. Hahaha. Not to mention if you tell people that your problem is that you're very boring and have blunted affect it's not going to scare anybody.
DeleteOr so I thought!
But it was a worthy trial and I bet most have forgotten about it. I still get occasional wayward stares from people but I've just been spreading around word that I have "Spock Syndrome." Cause you can't get scared of pointy ears.
I will say this though...I attempted to find an uber-empath like she talks about in her book. I do not recommend this to anyone self-diagnosed. People cannot handle that level of truth...no matter how much they say they care.
I had a colleague who was a socio who would tell everyone he had blunted affect disorder. Completely fucking made up disorder, but it worked for him. No one was freaked out by him. He would even tell professionals. They never questioned it even though it's not in the DSM, lol.
DeleteMakes sense to me. What they don't know won't kill you, right?
DeleteIt's funny though, when you self actualize this "sociopath" label you go from being the strongest to oddly vulnerable. I think that's the part I like least.
Glad I was born in the internet era, where anonymity is king. :D
I've been playing with this recently - talking about the different types of empathy and "normalizing" the variation by pointing out the differences among co-workers. I've even sprinkled in the word "sociopath" in the discussions. I don't say anything about myself, really, but...
DeleteAgain, context: I was brought into my former position as a "henchman." I was there to drive people, kick over rocks, find problems, expose lies, and disrupt "games." So, in this context, it was beneficial to give people pause - make themselves ask the question, "would he really expose me or throw me under the bus?" and come to the conclusion of "yes." It worked nicely - I had to be the most hated man in the company.
Funny story: I was walking down the hall whistling "Hi Ho, Hi Ho, It's off to work we go" when one of the few people I got along with there chuckled and asked which dwarf I was. Before I could answer, he volunteered, "Sleezy."
I love start ups!
The were at least two folks that were Aspies, at least two "pro-social" ASPD's, at least one or two avoidant types, and a couple of narcs for good measure. And, this place isn't all that unusual for a start up - they do attract misfits. I know - I'm no professional. I'm describing the folks in the vernacular we share -
I don't usually get along with other socios...I can spot them like a beast, but they're usually occupying zones above me or in positions parallel to my own in the bank.
DeleteIt's like that movie "Constantine." While you can see them, they can see you. And then it becomes this stupid struggle for authority.
One wolf per flock dammit. That's why I pump up people in my office that I know I can make fold later. It's the only way to win that game.
Finance really attracts them.
http://i.imgur.com/At3Wguj.jpg
Delete:D
My spirit animal.
"I tried telling people I was schizoid for a while to see how that would go over..."
DeleteSo, you're not a sociopath?
Hi BKvS4,
DeleteIt's interesting - for me it really depends more on the type of socio. ASPD types really are fairly easy for me and I have a couple of "pro-social" friends I am fairly sure (20+ years) they aren't too big on affective empathy. We get along based on common interests (e.g. motorcycles). Even the anti-social types aren't all that hard to be around - but I grew up with them.
BPD on the other hand, is easier for me to deal with in romantic relationship - all that emotional and sexual energy. It can make for an explosive mixture, but if you can make it work - whew! I have a BPD ex - sadly, she didn't want kids so we split (amicably; good call on her part). However, we did mange to settle into a stable relationship after about a year that was...a wild ride, shall we say.
Narcs - they need to be marched into a volcano.
My "spirit animal" is, without question, a wolf. 8)~
"I tried telling people I was schizoid..."
DeleteIf you have schizoid personality disorder, what are you doing here, on a site for sociopaths? The commentators on this blog are constantly making fun of you in so many ways. I can clearly see that and although you do realize a bit of it from time to time, you still interact with them. Why do you do this to yourself, since it's so unhealthy for a schizoid person, or for a person suffering from schizophrenia? Obviously, the commentators don't believe that you have schizoid personality disorder, and you keep getting hurt by them and by the mind games that they play. You might not realize this important point, but it is happening daily, creating more damage and destruction for you as words and reactions to them become internalized, the end result being more internal anger, highly impacting negativity and deep sadness. You need to protect and take good care of yourself, needing to be in a more positive and caring environment.
You see, I am not writing these words to make you feel bad, so don't take any of this the wrong way. Take these words as I write them, without thinking of a hidden meaning or a need to decode anything. I was just reading through these comments, and this is my honest observation. A couple of good friends would never make fun of you as a person, your background and your family.
HL Haller...
DeleteI like the ICD more that the ASPD/DSM version. We here in America like to criminalize those of us whom are different. It's a capitalist thing I believe. Which is exactly why we put the poor socios in jail and the rich ones in office.
Beyond that...are you looking for romantics from us? Is that the idea? I would turn your interests towards the normies if I were you. Dating BPD's is one thing because at least you can predict them. I wish you luck with a socio...though you'll regret it.
Even as an intellectual exercise, we will drain you. :)
Aviv...I read the first two sentences and I've ascertained your ignorance. You're beyond digestible.
DeleteHi BKvS4,
DeleteActually, the last thing I need in my life is another romantic entanglement right about now. Ma Haller and I do OK - it's a marriage, not Nirvana. But my kids are pretty special to me and they love their mama, so...
I have dated ASPD and it's not all it's cracked up to be.
The thing is, when you get two BPD's mirroring each other, it can really escalate into a seriously fun time.
ASPD's have an agenda, BPD's have needs and Noms are...dull. Not even boring -
Again, I'm out of the game these days, but it is fun to reminisce -
One more thing that I would like to mention is that people like the belittling commentators you are interacting with on this blog (HLHaller and Nihilistic Mind, especially) can make things worse for you, or even keep you from having somewhat healthier and caring relationships in real life. They would not affect me in any way, since I can see where these comments are coming from and I am a healthy person, but I can see how they are affecting you. Based on their comments, it looks as though they are attempting to make you feel even more detached and hurt, creating more problems for you in real life. I read those comments about simulations and experiments, so it all sounds quite strange to me. They try to manipulate your thinking, using and belittling/mocking you in ways that, unfortunately and due to having schizoid personality disorder, you don't realize all of the time. This contributes to your development of deeper sadness and irritation. I wish you could see all of these things, since it would improve your life and lead you to having better and healthier relationships with people that actually deserve to be in your life.
DeleteI know this is Sociopath World, and I can clearly see what is happening here, but know that I wrote this comment because I wish you well and, considering your impacted state of mind, I don't see it as being out of place at all. Commentators have a way of twisting things around, playing games that can only hurt and destroy you. No matter what you read, don't let anyone tell you or make you believe otherwise, since as I wrote, I do wish you well. Saying the opposite of what I am writing and making things look as though they are not well intended, would only be manipulation/mind games on their part, which, ultimately, would be detrimental for you.
Also, remember that feeling broken on the inside is not a life sentence. Things can be fixed, and you can get better after some time. Believe in yourself and realize the need for a more caring environment. As I wrote in my previous comment, a couple of good friends would not make fun of you, your background and family.
"Aviv...I read the first two sentences and I've ascertained your ignorance. You're beyond digestible."
DeleteTake care of yourself. I tried.
Thank you Aviv. Thank you so much...I would be lost without you.
DeleteOK - not looking for sympathy.
ReplyDeleteBut I do think that many on this site will appreciate that the board of directors of the company I used to work for just layed off half the company in time for the holidays!!! (yours truly included)
Who say's corporations aren't sociopathic?
I'm very sorry to hear this, truly am.
DeleteAll I can offer is 'compartmentalize.' Deny it and simply take this in as a vacation till the New Year.
Is you wife employed? That could help till you figure out yor next move.
Thanks Sceli,
DeleteActually, I'm not bummed about it - I'm glad it's over. It was a rough gig. The timing is silly - but it's not altogether unexpected. I've done several start up companies now (this was a start up) and it comes with the territory.
What's sad is that the technology is solid (I don't really want to get too much more specific) but the development time and the manufacturing end ultimately killed it. I expect that once it's all been liquidated, the IP will be sold for less than pennies on the dollar and that's how it will get to market.
Ma's an at home mom these days. Once My Angel (i.e. my daughter) is old enough, she'll go back to work, but for now, it's all about the kids.
I'll be OK until next year and there seems to be a lot of work out there (I keep the network "warm" since I usually change jobs every year or two). Until then, I do plan to enjoy the time off - spend time with my kids (and maybe even get a bit MORE verbose on here! ;p).
Mostly I posted it because it is such a clear example of how companies act sociopathic. I accept that as how things are (maybe not should be...).
Once I'm on the next gig, it'll be a great anecdote to tell -
I did a quick google and sure enough so many pre-Christmas layoffs. Must make their book-keeping easy. They may even be thinking it's an easier transition for those who are laid off.Not sure what they're thinking but looks like some of them think this is wrong..
DeleteIt's the end of the year book keeping driving it. Nothing to do with transitions. I've been doing this a while. Again, without going into detail, this was a response to some unfortunately timed events - but the feelings of those being let go wasn't part of the Board's discussion.
DeleteThere was a Dilbert cartoon years ago that said something to the effect of, "turns out people are not our greatest resource - they are number 17, right behind carbon paper." I saw the truth and made peace with it then -
I've always been too long-winded. Even at 7 years old, much less 70. No one else here is long-winded, fortunately.
ReplyDeleteL. Ron Hubbard was a pretty good science fiction writer. He said, "I know how to get rich and get lots of pretty girls to be my sex slaves. I will start a religion." It worked. Dianetics/Scientology.
Joseph Smith was a crazy farmer. He said, I know how to get rich and get lots of pretty girls to be my sex slaves. I will start a religion. It worked. Mormons. M.E. is still his sex slave.
I am starting my own religion. Ethical Nihilism. We believe in nothing. We will go viral. I am land rich and cash poor so I need an investor. Invest $500 (for my own amusement but not yours). I believe in nothing. I may make some money (but probably not). I am too old to do anything with sex slaves (unless some incredible scientific breakthrough comes through tomorrow). If I make some money (that's the impractical idea) I will share some of it with you and you can have all the sex slaves you can gather. As this is a web site of liars and psychopaths and socopaths, you should believe anything and everything I say. If you want to finance me, email me at radicalagnostic@google.com. You now know what i look like. Do I look like a mass murderer?
Hi EN,
DeleteHave you ever read Wise Blood by Flannery O'Conner? It's about a guy that starts "The Holy Church of Christ Without Christ - where the blind don't see, the deaf don't hear, and the dead stay that way." (I think I got the quote about right...).
You might enjoy it -
HL: As a mater of fact, I did read the book -- WISE BLOOD -- about a billion years ago and completely forgot it. I am not a good enough writer to pull something like that off. So I want to start a real cult. (I actually destroyed a cult once -- not kidding -- but that was a long time ago, so I am bored in my senility. I am going to watch Alice in Wonderland and dream I am a white rabbit.
DeleteThe way i conceptualize love is that I primarily care about what the other person does for me... and the reason I put them first is that it ensures they feel valued in the relationship, and ultimately do the things I want. This is sometimes manipulative, but if it makes them happy (and that is the secondary goal) and it makes me happy, what's the problem? Is this slight shift in priorities what gets people so upset?
ReplyDelete@M. E.: The new verification system - I like it!!! Much better than the old one. That thing could be really frustrating. Hopefully it's effective enough to keep. 8)~
ReplyDeleteHLHaller @ 3:52 PM
ReplyDeleteI often think of the lines from the Kipling poem "If:"
"If you can meet with triumph and disaster
and treat those two imposters just the same."
Right, imposters are low life people who take advantage of the misfortune of others.
HLHaller, being a low life has nothing to do with a person's family members, with a person's unfortunate background/past, or whether that person is rich or poor. It has to do with the way a person thinks and behaves toward others, especially toward those who are less fortunate in diverse aspects of life.
A low life can be a wealthy person living in a large house, too. Being wealthy means having character and a warm heart.
I must say it is very interesting to have found this site. The newer posts are much more informative. I always knew I didn't feel like other's and it really has never bothered me. Like most of you I am sometimes seen as a manipulator but I never thought anyone had or would pick up on my true self. My Mother recently told me that she has suspected, since I was very young, and felt pretty positive, since middle school. I was wondering if any of you had any experiences or thoughts on that.
ReplyDeleteAlso to HLHaller on being a parent
When I think about being a Mother, I like the idea of it and the image it reflects. I actually have pondered if having a child would make me feel something like selfless love. The idea is exciting, interesting and a bit scary. I do feel things on some degree like many of you have shared but I have never felt what traditionalists would call love and I think it comes from a very different place than everyone I know. I've come across manipulators before, but never someone like me, I appreciate being able to ask.
Anon - you are clueless
ReplyDelete