Sociopaths have a reputation for thinking that they're better than everyone else. Not true (or at least I don't think it is, I don't know a sufficient sample size of sociopaths). Even if it's "true-ish", I believe that it's much more nuanced than that. Sociopaths do suffer from delusions of grandeur, yes, but they're not necessarily a comparative delusion of "I'm better than you" so much as "aren't I great?" or even the slightly more comparative but still within a narrow niche of applicability "nobody could have pulled that off like I just did." Second, it's not a thought so much as it is a feeling of self-love and admiration. When it comes to a sociopath's actual thoughts, sociopaths, at least the grown-up mature ones, understand well that everybody is about the same in terms of meaninglessness in the grand scheme of things. It's perhaps what makes utilitarian thinking so natural and easy.
Third, and the focus of this post, I think that a lot of people might naturally believe that a sociopath needs feelings of superiority in order to justify his behavior or self-love. Also not true. In order for empaths to be cold and cruel, they often need to lean on their pseudo-science understanding concepts of "survival of the fittest" or as one commenter recently wondered "trample or be trampled". But sociopaths don't have to logically talk themselves into this sort of behavior the same way that no one has to logically talk anyone into falling in love with their newborn. That's just the way sociopaths are wired. And there is no real logic to this sort of bastardization of "survival of the fittest" way of thinking. Nature is not some hardwired meritocracy that values objectively "superior" traits over "inferior" ones. Your worth is almost entirely contextual and based on scarcity and demand at that particular moment. If you're the only electrician in the world, you'll be a king. If everyone is an electrician, you are nothing. If you're one of the few in the world who can flawlessly sing high C's, you're an opera star. If everyone could, you're nothing. Society is in constant state of flux in terms of what is values and what it needs. The most we could say is that for a particular problem or feat, you also could be the "only one who could pull this off". Forgive the oversimplification, but all Darwinism says is that the more diverse a species is, the more robustly it encounters external opposition or change. It's as if we all drew from the genetic lottery and we have no idea what the truly "winning" ticket will be until nature and chance draws it (and keeps drawing it from day to day). Sociopaths win at different things than normal people only because their lottery ticket has different numbers and due to their relative scarcity. Nobody has a clue who will survive until it happens, so it's pretty foolish to make an assertions about people being "worthy" to survive or not.
I also liked this recent comment responding to the trample or be trampled question:
I knew a guy at university who was so insecure and trying to look clever and tough, he went on and on at a party, where people were tripping, about 'the law of the jungle' and 'survival of the fittest'. People were coming out of the room dazed and worried because they were almost convinced that it was therefore OK to kill him because he was irritating them. I had to talk them down because even though I used to be a nice person, I agreed this guy needed to be removed from the gene pool, but lets leave that to the decision of the insecure fat girls he was always creeping on to.
Third, and the focus of this post, I think that a lot of people might naturally believe that a sociopath needs feelings of superiority in order to justify his behavior or self-love. Also not true. In order for empaths to be cold and cruel, they often need to lean on their pseudo-science understanding concepts of "survival of the fittest" or as one commenter recently wondered "trample or be trampled". But sociopaths don't have to logically talk themselves into this sort of behavior the same way that no one has to logically talk anyone into falling in love with their newborn. That's just the way sociopaths are wired. And there is no real logic to this sort of bastardization of "survival of the fittest" way of thinking. Nature is not some hardwired meritocracy that values objectively "superior" traits over "inferior" ones. Your worth is almost entirely contextual and based on scarcity and demand at that particular moment. If you're the only electrician in the world, you'll be a king. If everyone is an electrician, you are nothing. If you're one of the few in the world who can flawlessly sing high C's, you're an opera star. If everyone could, you're nothing. Society is in constant state of flux in terms of what is values and what it needs. The most we could say is that for a particular problem or feat, you also could be the "only one who could pull this off". Forgive the oversimplification, but all Darwinism says is that the more diverse a species is, the more robustly it encounters external opposition or change. It's as if we all drew from the genetic lottery and we have no idea what the truly "winning" ticket will be until nature and chance draws it (and keeps drawing it from day to day). Sociopaths win at different things than normal people only because their lottery ticket has different numbers and due to their relative scarcity. Nobody has a clue who will survive until it happens, so it's pretty foolish to make an assertions about people being "worthy" to survive or not.
I also liked this recent comment responding to the trample or be trampled question:
I knew a guy at university who was so insecure and trying to look clever and tough, he went on and on at a party, where people were tripping, about 'the law of the jungle' and 'survival of the fittest'. People were coming out of the room dazed and worried because they were almost convinced that it was therefore OK to kill him because he was irritating them. I had to talk them down because even though I used to be a nice person, I agreed this guy needed to be removed from the gene pool, but lets leave that to the decision of the insecure fat girls he was always creeping on to.
Do you really think that, ME? Or are you just trying to get s rise out of us?
ReplyDeleteContext and subjectivity are pseudo-clinical methods of saying, "everybody is a winner in the right situation where their unique and beautiful snowflake nature can sparkle," which is charming but misrepresentative. Without the empathic urge to say, "its okay little buddy, you may only have a 13% chance of survival... But what if that 13% happens? You might be a hero!" we are left with objective odds.
How likely is this trait to play positively across the spectrum of possible events? How likely is that trait to be a liability across the same spectrum. Statistics explains this in terms of ranges and sets, and uses "outliers" to describe the remainder. Outliers aren't just as valuable- they are lucky.
Bush league theory, ME. Shame on you.
I dunno CC -
DeleteI think what she's saying is that ones genetics are the "lottery ticket" and reproductive success (which is really only measurable in subsequent generations) really is the "draw."
There's been a long debate over evolution being more of a "drift" versus "jumps" - one being a slow process of change in response to environmental changes whereas the other is really about the "lucky ones" that survive "the event." Whatever that may be - plague, asteroid, whatever.
In both cases, diversity is not only helpful, but necessary.
I'm not a fan of the "beautiful snowflake" clap trap - but, if you happen to have what people want at any given moment and others don't have it. You will be...popular.
CC, I like to imagine a doctor saying "Yes, you suffer from a condition which is lethal in 95% of the cases, but think about how sensational it would be if you make it as one of the 5% that survive!"
DeleteHarry, by now it is widely accepted that evolution is a drift, mostly going slow on selection, but there can occur genetic bottle necks. Though, they are more random than anything else, a special individual won't make it to the glorious halls of genetic inheritance fame if it is the only one with that trait. It's likelier to get lost.
"In both cases, diversity is not only helpful, but necessary." Only in unstable environment, in stable environment it's the other way round.
Many of the people writing here are total idiots. Understandably they don't understand MEs writing. Offcourse any winner can be a looser and any looser a winner.
DeleteComment to the comment ME quoted:
To want to remove People because the dont fit Your idea of Things is idiotic and immature. A person is nothing but the sum of his experiences and his Resources and skills to deal and grow With them. These factors may change With time. Giving People static roles is simplistic and idiotic. It shows a lack of ability to understand Your surroundings.
One thing that has always numbed my mind is the idiocracy of group mentality. Grown adults behaving like zombie children without the ability to reason and think. And this coming from a person who scores higher on antisocial traits then 88% of society.
I think you and Your party ates should be lined up and executed. If I were your king in a medieval world, it would happen.
"Many of the people writing here are total idiots." Nothing biased about this statement...
DeleteHi NM,
Delete"Only in unstable environment, in stable environment it's the other way round."
I see the world (and universe, for that matter) as being in state of constant change, so environment is really fixed, but rather changing over time. If nothing changes, then an optimum solution should emerge, I would think. Since things are bound to change, species will "drift."
And, of course, a single entity isn't enough - but a bunch of similarly built entities (different from those that dies off) would start the drift over.
I think we're saying mostly the same thing -
'Neutral evolution' is a theory that states that most evolution that happens causes no change in fitness. It is known that species are 'clouds' in the phase space of genetic configurations rather than points. diversity is inherent to evolultionary processes.
DeleteHarry, I agree. Did you steal my thoughts?
DeleteYou mentioned you're Hungarian? I'm 3/4 Hungarian... maybe there's some kind of universal storage 'cloud' of knowledge involved, just to mention one of my favorite conspiracies xD
Doc, according to our lecturer for population genetics Kimura's theory is now overhauled, it's now thought that mutations are indeed harmful, but personally I like the neutral theory better :)
I know that neutral evolution is a controversial theory. That doesn't change though the rest of my statement. It was to point out that evolution is not as simple in how it works as 'survival of the fittest'. Indeed it is more about weeding out the unfit rather than selecting the very best.
DeleteNow you managed to confuse me...
DeleteI see 'survival of the fittest' and 'weeding out of the unfit' as rather complementary, representing two sides of the same coin. If the fittest survive, the unfit will be weeded out, and if the unfit will be weeded out only the remaining, thus fittest, will survive. I'm not sure what you were getting at, then - would mind explaining it on a more basic level for me to understand?
Hi NM, let's say fitness is on a spectrum,
Deleteif only the fittest survive that pushes everything to a fixed point of optimal fitness so there is no more diversity in fitness as everything is maximally fit. On the other hand weeding out from the bottom of fitness does not do that.
That's what I meant.
There are some models that look at evolution in terms of negative reinforcement solely (removing the worst fit) rather than selecting the best fit (positive reinforcement).
Thank you for clarifying Doc, now it makes sense for me. c:
DeleteM.E i need yr help. i was gonna email y but this seems safer.
ReplyDeletehi!
i've seen your post about career paths
but the things is that i'm in love (!) with mathematics but also i know i need some other kinda job.. rather than being a scientist! like being a cardio surgeon. i can be in love with that too. y know it's pretty easy. y know, the being focused thing, the life and death in your hands.. you don't know what's gonna happen each day.. the competition.. the high!
but i'm in last year of highschool and having the most important exam that makes our career choices possible. so, i NEED to be absolutely SURE if i'm gonna change my way. i'm going to be great. be the best. whatever i choose to do for a living.
but i need to be sure. i need to be 100 % sure. it's my life, you know.
so i neeed your help.
____i'm a girl
tnx.
"a lot of people might naturally believe that a sociopath needs feelings of superiority in order to justify his behavior or self-love."
ReplyDeleteMa Haller and I were discussing this the other day.
An ex once said that I am "so comfortable with [myself] that it's almost pathological." Ma was trying to make the case that I am really quite insecure and that I "need" that feeling of being the "smartest guy in the room" because I put so much energy into it (we both like to be the center of attention - to give some context).
I like it. I enjoy it. It makes me happy. But it doesn't really have much of an influence on how I see myself and if I'm not "that guy," I'm actually fine with it - that means there are people in the room that I'm likely to find interesting. That's great too!
I don't deny that I have a narcissistic streak. But as M. E. said, what I think what I'm expressing is more along the lines of "aren't I great?" I'm just as prone to pointing out the "successes" of those around me (there is a certain degree of "crowd management" going on in those situations, if I'm honest - people like positive people).
There's also a degree of competitiveness that I think can add to the perception. When two or more people get together, the way I see it, it can be a dance or it can be combat.
When everyone is playing off each other and bringing out a high degree of performance (what I would call constructive competition) I see it as a "dance." However, some people really do see the world in terms of "zero sum games," at which point it becomes combat. And it doesn't take too many people like that to create chaos and dysfunction in an organization - that's often where managers and leaders fail, I believe.
Radical AgnosticDecember 14, 2014 at 10:11 PM
ReplyDeleteWhat's your take on the proper way of dealing with getting old and with losing one's mind?
Reply
What's proper way of dealing with being forced to experience what we don't want to?
I'm going to take this question seriously and answer because every passing day as we age we're getting closer to this question. I'll answer withwhat comes to mind, without deeply feeling and checking if what I'm saying is indeed something that could translate into beavior one day for me.
One always has the option of early check-out. Stay on this earth if you believe life is worth it even though you're getting old and senile.
So, I guess what follows from that is bring yourself to grace, be gracious that you're alive as opposed to bitching about what comes with that priviledge.
If you like contributing to the younger ones, share with them what you're going through not in a bitching mode, but in an educational mode. Write books, blogs, pour your heart out. Feel like you're doing something useful with what you have to deal with.
Then see what may slows down the process, takes away the pain, some solution without serious residual effects. Maybe drugs, and it's best to make it legal, so move to a country where it's cheaper to live and you can drug yourself with the other older folks who are doing the same. The Netherlands? St Croix (if you use religion as justification)? Surround yourself with similarly dealing people so you're having some serious fun with the situation.
And, stay in touch with the Sociopathworld, clearly you have some fun here, and you cheer the place up too.
So, how did I do, old man? I wish you a pain free path as you head towards where we all will go. Tell us some specific crazies you have to deal with day by day, when you have time and desire to do so. I got ears for you.
Nice post Sceli,
DeleteBy the by - RA is in Washington State (to hear him tell it), so he may not need to move anywhere to get pain relief; it's legal there now...at least until the Feds flex their muscle...
It turns out that cannabis operates differently than traditional analgesics - it interrupts the pain signal in a different part of the system.
Hi Sceli, you write with grace.
Deletehey, there are more important things to reply to ~X( LIKE MY COMMENT! aren't y gonna help me freakin' choose!? :D
ReplyDeleterhyme, contemplating your writing skills and showcase of mindset I shiver at the mere imagination of you becoming a cardiac surgeon.
DeleteFor the sake of your hypothetical future patients, choose to become a scientist. We can never have enough people theoretically screwing up the world. Emphasis on theoretically.
Seriously, no offence.
NM, who do you think came up with the atomic bomb?
DeleteI got your point, Doc. Still doesn't apply, I don't see an Einstein in her - but looking at some fellow students a surgeon isn't all to impossible.
Deletemy point was about who can screw up the world more, a scientist or a surgeon.
DeleteI know, and my reply meant: For me personally in this specific situation, not generally.
DeleteOf course, a surgeon, on general terms, is unlikely to hold the same potentially destructive influences on the world in comparison to a scientist. That's one of the reasons I chose to become the latter. ;)
y don't see an Einstein in me :)) wut was that supposed to mean? y think y know me? just because y know i'm a socio doesn't mean y know me.
Deleteand y do know that being a surgeon is one of the jobs which attract socios?
Deleteand, wut is it about my writing skills?
"theoretically" !!! go to freakin' hell. seriously, no offence!
Deleterhyme, you seem to be rather emotional about this.
Deletey can't judge by sentences. i care about me. so it's rather important. and yr cmnt seems stupid. no offence. y're judging by the socio thing. and y're not realizing it's not about harming people, it's about "Real world" and it's about wut "i" will be good at, and that wut will make me satisfy.
Deleteand i really wanted to know, wut is it about the writing skills?
english isn't my first language,and i'm not that good at it, so, it's rather hard for me sometimes to "get" wut y say. when yr sentences contain an amount of "big" words which i haven't heard. that's why i ask wut y mean because it really isn't clear for me wut y meant. although it seemed clear for Doc.
DeleteEnglish is not my first language too, and I'm sorry about the big words - I use more words than needed most of the time out of habit. I can give you the advice to use google for translations, not the translation tool but the normal search tool, this has helped me a lot.
DeleteTo make that clear: 1. I don't know you and I don't think I can judge you only with looking at what you write here.
2. I'm a socio too, I don't judge anyone because of being empath, sociopath or anything else. Mostly, I'm not mean on purpose.
3. I'm a scientist in training (university). Scientists can screw around without really get into prison with it when something goes wrong. Surgeons will get problems if they kill someone on accident. I, even as scientist, will never cut open living people.
I do not think you can invent something like Einstein did. (Einstein invented the atomic bomb.) That is my opinion, not necessarily the truth.
Nobody except you can know what will satisfy you. Only because someone on the internet thinks something is better than something else doesn't mean that is true for you too. Do research about how your possible ways will look and then decide what you want.
And now about your writing skills: If I had a surgeon who wants to cut me open I would not want them to use 'y' for 'you' or 'wut' for 'what' and so on. That is something that is important for me. My surgeons should be able to 1. fluently talk in at least one language I understand, 2. able to write in a decent manner, 3. use lots of complicated words to show me they are smarter than me.
Where I live, it is normal for surgeons to study at university and then do long years of practice, and not everyone can study at university. It is against my culture to think someone who has not mastered everyday writing is allowed to become a doctor at all.
Shouting "go to freakin' hell" with 3 exclamation marks looks very emotional.
I want to tell you that when I write 'no offence' I mean, it is not personally against you, but rather neutral. I see how this can be misunderstood though.
If there are words left you don't understand please ask.
I'm studying in the best school in the whole country and also countries around my country, and i'm the best in school.
Deletei know i'm not grown yet, so those are the mistakes i'm making. such as using abbriviation. so, thanks for your opinion on that. I think you're right. I think I must work on my english too, because I talk very good in my own language and if I want to immigrate in future I must work on that. thanks again.
yes that does look emotional :))
I really like to cut people open on a daily basis. ;)
do you have any other suggestions? about improving my english and also other things. I will appreciate any suggestion and will think about it and work on it if it makes sense for me.
Sociopaths succeed because they are confident and risk taking, especially
ReplyDeleteEnnagram 3's.
I turned on FOX news this morning and they had Donald Trump as they do every
Monday. Why is Trump a success? Well, he inherited a lot from his father, but
he is very brash and knew how to play the media. He's basically an empty suit-
a rich empty suit with a big mouth and good at self promotion. He's a text book
nacassist, like Charlie Sheen, who believes that he's God's gift to everything.
So the key to sociopathic success is brashness coupled with good self
promotion and B.S.'in abilities. It also helps if you are physically presentabile.
BTW, say kind things about M.E. or say nothing at all.
Radical Agnostic: There are approaches to staving off aging. They are on the
net but you must keep the colon clean, and take Human Growth Hormone.
If you REALLY had disclipline, you could expect to live to 130 or more.
Definitely a lot of narcissism in PD's. I'm pretty tongue-in-cheeky and satirical about my narcissism. It allows me to be narcy, and not have everyone hate my guts.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, M.E., your article is a mess. You mixed up so many thing I don't even want to count them. Anyhow, there are quite some keywords in there that kept me thinking.
ReplyDeleteI'll have to post in parts though...
"Survival of the fittest", either you *are* fit enough to survive or you're not. As far as my knowledge of Darwin goes, he never tried to categorize certain characteristics as "fit or not fit" but rather concluded that what still exists is the fittest of what came to existence in the past and only what will be left in the future is the fittest of now. It doesn't look like he ever wanted to justify selective behavior of human beings against their own species, and "Social Darwinism" - the social determinism - is per se rather a perversion of Darwin's theories than anything else.
Let alone, single individuals and "small" groups rarely hold great influence on whole populations - not even Hitler and his national socialists had a lasting influence despite their try on eugenics (which wouldn't have worked the way they tried anyway - under different circumstances thoroughly workable though).
"Nature is not some hardwired meritocracy that values objectively 'superior' traits over 'inferior' ones."
Amen to that, true objectivity doesn't exist. I'd go as far as saying it's not even the case within western society, just look at how fluent, even contradicting, definitions of "superior"/"inferior" traits are, over time and distances alike. Definition A of trait B might be true for today, in city C at least, but 200km away in city R the same definition holds true for the opposite trait, etc.
Just take a look around - in fact just take two different lowlife daily newspapers and have a look. Empaths must be crazy.
continued...
ReplyDelete"Your worth is almost entirely contextual and based on scarcity and demand at that particular moment."
Agree for first few words, disagree for rest. Yes, values and the like are contextual, but what is written about scarcity and demand sounds more like a stock market definition mixed with religious fanaticism.
If - and that's highly hypothetical - there was only you with that one special specialty, you'll probably rather be an outcast. It would be kinda idiotic to establish a whole new market for the sake of worshiping one single individual, and with one of your examples: If you're the only one in the world who sings a perfect C, no one's gonna be interested to sing a perfect C anyway - it's outside the frame of possibilities for everyone beside you.
That, of course, led me to the question whether one would be king if they were the only one able to cure AIDS (or Ebola ;p), but it didn't take me long to figure it wouldn't work either. In an age where people believe carcinogenic materials are merely fairy tails to scare you, a "saint" with the ability to heal something noone's able to heal would be quickly discarded as fairy tail too.
"Sociopaths win at different things than normal people only because their lottery ticket has different numbers (...)"
I heavily doubt sociopathy is in any way related to your winning odds in life. Frankly, there is too much going on in my brain about this particular sentence to write everything down.
Regarding your analogy, if it's supposed to be a random (e.g. not spiritual, capitalistically, etc. manipulated) lottery, different sociopaths would draw different numbers too - probably even the same as some empaths do.
"(...) I think that a lot of people might naturally believe that a sociopath needs feelings of superiority in order to justify his behavior or self-love. (...) But sociopaths don't have to logically talk themselves into this sort of behavior (...)"
I resonate to this. I have experienced that people thought ill of me for doing things "intentionally evil" from their p.o.v. (didn't even came to my mind it might be wrong/evil at all) and then justifying their assumptions toward me presuming I must be arrogant and narcissistic on purpose. Quite comical.
As a fun fact, I had a hard time talking myself into hating my narcissistic side. Who, knows, maybe it's the same difficulties for empaths to talk themselves into doing 'bad' stuff xD
I had a dream. I dreamed that M.E. had died.
ReplyDeleteWhat happens if a mother hyena dies? Her starving litter rips her to shreds, laughing like . . .
The smartest of the litter howls, “Survival of the fittest!” and then begins killing and eating its litter mates. The most musically talented cub howls:
http://www.metrolyrics.com/all-together-now-lyrics-beatles.html
RA, You made my day. :-)))
DeleteGrendel
RA, you're best. Just sayin'.
ReplyDeleteI don't think survival of the fittest really works in a social context, although we tend to think of things in that context. I think there is some truth to the notion that what society values does depend on scarcity. I'd say this is closer to market theory than evolution.
ReplyDeleteI do believe that some people are luckier at the genetic lottery than others, and then add another layer to that- some people develop their genetic potential, while others don't. And then there is the matter of what society deems to be meritorious. Think of it this way- very few people have the genetic potential to be an Olympic gold medalist- but an even smaller subset of that group actually develop their potential to the point that they can compete. And whether their potential is applicable to a sport is a social issue. So genetics, while important, is really only part of the puzzle.
I definitely have a feeling of superiority about myself, even though I rationally know it is only sometimes deserved.
HB, I'd agree that scarcity is valued. Both market theory and evolution involve the concept of 'niches'. I think they are closer to each other than might appear...
DeleteSceli said . . . "And, stay in touch with the Sociopathworld, clearly you have some fun here, and you cheer the place up too."
ReplyDeleteThen I've failed in my mission. I have my doubts that you are long for this world. Especially if you hang out with this hyena pack.
lol... lighten up, old man. you're in a cranky mood. is it rainy or something? it's lovely sunny weather where I am.
Deletei think it's a service that socio's are sharing some stuff here. i ain't a socio but i believe in learning from all folks.
i didn't realize you had a mission, sorry. maybe i missed some posts of yours. what's your mission?
i'll get back to you on the hyena remark.
I will go back to the classics. As Groucho Marx said, "I don't want to join any club that lets in people like me."
DeleteSpeaking of hyenas. They do make excellent pets. As a guy in Miami found out.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yWnt6ODxcc
RA, this video is more about a hot gay guy than a hyena. Is something Freudian going on here?
DeleteThat was a lovely relationship betwen the hot guy and the hyena. I would've liked an experience like that.
DeleteHere is a good one to see about th epossibility of socio stretch that I wouldn't count on. In thsi one a lion adopts a baby antelope, quite different than a strong (and schizoid) man raising a hyena.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZw-1BfHFKM
Just finished this video. Something to watch. The lionese is stealing one baby antelope after another and is truly enjoying controlling and enslaving them. Yikes...
DeleteSceli: was something Freudian going on with Freud. Probably he got in trouble diagnosing hyenas with hysteria.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the lioness and antelope goes, M.E. should not adopt a child unless it has already been diagnosed as a sociopath in preschool before the adoption.
Presenting an interesting dilemma for the adoption authorities. Normally, they would not let a sociopath adopt a child. (They used to be that way about homosexuals who wanted to adopt, but we have moved on as far as pricks and pussies.) I mean, if you had a lioness without a cub and a cub without a mom, that would be a marriage (or at least adoption) made in Heaven, correct?
This should be of interest to everyone here (though nothing is): Should a single sociopath adult be allowed to adopt a sociopath child? What would the Pope (an expert on morality, and proper care of little children -- "I will let this priest adopt this little boy and tell him about God and morality in between raping him" --approve a sociopath adopting a sociopath?
I would say that it's ultimately about the survival of the most interesting.
ReplyDeleteThe more interesting and twisted a creature is, the higher its chances of survival.
The gods toy with those who are as arrogant as themselves.
anon, cockroaches and humans have existed on earth for about the same length of time. so much for your theory.
DeleteWhile we are at it. How would anyone diagnose or at least label the chocolate shop hostage taker in Sydney? As far as I can tell, from a very long way away, Haron Monis was either a religious mad man or a insane mad man or a sociopath mad man. Obviously,the lion in the video was insane. What is difference between a sane sociopath vs. an insane sociopath? Is a serial killer who never gets caught (e.g. Jack the Ripper) an example of the survival of the fittest? Indicating that Ted Bundy was an unfit sociopath.
ReplyDelete:) You're on a roll, lol...
DeleteThat guy was such a low level loser with nothing to lose and needing to leave with a bang. The other filks who left with him are definition of wrong place wrong time, talk about a lousy way to die.
I've been looking for a "good way to die" for a long time. In all seriousness, I have come very close to being killed at least 30 times in my life. I have been standing next to a stove struck by lightening (no meals that night, let me tell you--the stove was fried). I have had a huge bin of auto parts (while working in a Chevrolet factory) fall just where I had just been standing a few seconds before. I caught a mysterious (and never diagnosed) infection on a different island not far from the one where I live. I gave refuge to a woman living three houses away who was being beaten up by her brother in law. He headed for our house and slashed a Good Samaritan on the street in the face with a knife. This is all true, but took place long enough to be funny, so please laugh. I am not a good liar or these stories would be funnier.
Deletethey're funny, truth always is.
Deletedo these make you feel like God loves you? I mean, I know you don't love him back, but still, looks like he loves you, no?
ps. i'm not religious, that doesn't mean I can't agree with the vocabulary...
"I am not a good liar or these stories would be funnier."
DeleteSceli, about "they're funny, truth always is." It's possible that RA is saying that the stories would be funnier if he was a better liar, rather than he is telling the truth.
Yes, it's possible, but I took it that he meant if he had time he'd have embellished the stories (as in added lies/fictionalized) to play further on the funny side.
DeleteMaybe I believed them to be true because I personally had several similar experiences that would top some of his.
If you care to share I would be interested, Sceli.
DeleteAs i understand it we live in a "jungle" and it's all about the survival of the fittest. nevertheless we all go jack sooner or later. even if you're a mastermind and avoid stupid accidents and being shot in the face, after 100 years the fairytale is over. i'm interested to know how you relate to the multigenerational aspect of survival?
ReplyDeleteHi Anon. How are you different than all the other anons?
DeleteI am trying to decode your question. I suppose it could refer to "reincarnation" (though I am pretty sure it does not). Reincarnation is a stupid idea, anyway, because the "reincarnated people never know who they were last time around. So what's the point? How many Hindus and Buddhists believe this shit?
Perhaps you are referring to your genes carrying on. Unless you are a king or queen or a Kennedy or a Bush, there's not much in that for most of us peons.
Perhaps you are referring to the survival of the species. Did Hitler care? Did Stalin care? Do the Dodos or the passenger pigeons or the Neanderthals care that they're not around any longer?
After you are dead (which will be pretty soon if I am reading the subtext of your comment correctly), it will be as if you had never existed. That's a pretty serious mantra to meditate on. I want you to brood deeply on all night and all through the week. Just before you commit suicide, post a comment here as a suicide note. That will rock M.E. (From the Mosh Pit, everybody give it up for M.E.)
It's not just a jungle. It's a desert and an empty beach. I think it's time for Dover Beach.
hi radical agnostic. i'm different from all the other anons in all thinkable ways except my name, but let me change that by signing this reply...
Deletei hoped my question didn't need any decoding as i was asking about the multigenerational aspect, but it's my third language so i try to be more precise about it.
i was asking about how you relate to genes carrying on. u answered it already. (it was your shortest answer btw. :-) )
u had some questions on your own so i try to address the too:
i think the point of religion is to... well let's say reinforce inner kindness and respect between humans and other being. at least that's the reason i whould have invented it. cynically 1 could argue it's a mean to control others, but thats not the reason why even smart people believe in em. (i don't btw.)
altough you say there isn't much in carrying on ones genes, many peons seem to believe differently. which is the reason we are here being able to communicate (or at least try to)btw. we call em children. strange beings that look like not just mother and father but grandmother and grandfather. a mixture of fantastic people, growing and evolving to surpass all before. if tragedy doesn't happen, they live on when we're all dead. not just the genes but also what the genes stand for. with good upbringing and a little luck, expirences and the best of our habits will dwell and do stuff when we aren't anymore. which will inevatibly come and i dont believe in reunions in heaven or hell. i was interested if sociopaths can relate to any of these things which u obviously can't. which is alright. altough i can't understand why u can with powerful people. look at the disaster little goerge (bush) was...
as for the species. u can't care if your dead. u do care if your alive. as u must know, u wrote u where kind of relieved when u didn't die on your numerous almousts...
as for my death... i have the strong feeling that it will be pretty soon altough not in the next 40 -50 years i presume. u know with one life, time's in short supply, cause death could be around the corner. i had about 15 almousts... 2 knife attacks, 1 drunken bike accident, 1 almoust drowning, 1 almoust deathfall of a cliff and so on... i would die for a lot of things (well not country or religion), but not freely. after i'm dead, the world wouldn't be the same as if i never existed. here and now i am. that can't be changed retrospectivly you fool. the world isn't like the dodos never existed. the world is exactly like the dodos existed but became extinct. if you don't give a crap, thats nice for you, but existance is the time and space your thoughts exist in not the other way around. that u should have already realized if you're really 70-ish and not a teenage girl. to put it more simply: the world is more than what u can put into your head.
Anonymus 1
I have an off topic question for the forum -
ReplyDeleteI was surfing various sociopath websites today at work (I'll surf there, but I won't post) and there was a posting on one board that did a compare/contrast of traits between Aspies and Socios.
One of the items in the compare column was a statement to the effect that both groups will wear the same thing (style wise) every day. Little variation from day to day.
I pretty much do this and I've known a couple of other empathically challenged people who did this (most were former military and I am not). I'm not really so much obsessive about it as much as too lazy to try any harder most days -
However, I don't do well with synthetic materials -
Anyone else here do this? Other "oddball" traits that aren't usually discussed?
Is this question just for sociopaths and autistics? I upgraded to NPD the other day. I traded in my BPD diagnosis, but I have a zillion oddball traits cept the whole synthetic materials thing or wearing the same things everyday isn't some of them.
DeleteBesides a person, like me, who isn't really a sociopath, who regularly reads and posts to a sociopath site.
DeleteOK. I guess that's not really an "oddball trait." I am glad to discover after 70 years of feeling different, that I am normal.
NPD, BPD, ASPD, ASD - who keeps score, really. ;)~
DeleteIt was just an odd post that I thought seemed more Aspie than Socio, but I did get to thinking about a couple guys I used to work with.
@Dr G: I recall you mentioning NPD a while back but I don't know that I ever understood the argument - why the change?
Jus bein silly. Ever since dcscifi posted the article about NPD I thought it sounded entirely too much like high functioning bpd so I decided right then and there to upgrade.
DeleteOddball traits, here we go:
DeleteI answer rhetorical questions,
I take sarcasm at face value (training for almost half a year now, it got a bit better actually),
I wear whenever possible a black hoody and black trousers,
Whenever I draw I sort my colored pencils gradiently by color beforehand,
In the movies I often laugh when no-one else does and often don't get what people find funny (yet I'm said to make the best jokes),
Whenever I see a dog first thing I do is point out aloud the breed,
I accidentally stare down people I find interesting,
I purposefully stare down strangers when I have a bad day,
I almost always take a bag of some sort with me (trying to get rid of this habit, it's really silly),
I used to look at my watch automatically about every half hour without reading the time,
Now that I don't wear a watch anymore I do the same with my mobile,
I dislike facing people I talk to frontally (in relaxed situations) so I'd stand sidewards and correct my position whenever they try to face me frontally,
I habitually ask if someone can gift me some money instead of someone lend me money for coffee,
I generally drink at least two cups of coffee before I leave the house in the morning though not for the sake of waking up,
Since I can't concentrate on a task I don't actually do, like listening to a lecture that seemingly has no interesting content or the lecturer is just not able to get his/her point across, I write down what they're saying and showing on the presentation (most fellow students don't since the presentations are free to download on the university's site),
Whenever someone asks me to do something and adds something after the initial task, I mostly won't hear it,
I don't seem to realize most verbal attacks as such if they aren't hindering me from doing something,
I mostly tell the total unmasked truth, unasked for (except for when it's beneficial to lie for me of course),
I have never truly planned a presentation yet have never had a worse mark than 2 in school (which is more-or-less a B),
I can get excited over trivial stuff like pencils, magnets and the like,
Did I forget something? Probably yes, I don't know xD
So, this is why I keep telling people I'm a sort-of Aspie.
Oddball traits, here we go:
DeleteI answer rhetorical questions, 1. People should not ask rhetorical questions.
I take sarcasm at face value (training for almost half a year now, it got a bit better actually),2. That's how you build immunity to getting your feelings hurt.
I wear whenever possible a black hoody and black trousers, 3. You're decent. You might not get a job.
Whenever I draw I sort my colored pencils gradiently by color beforehand, 4. Better than a Random Walk down Wall Street.
In the movies I often laugh when no-one else does and often don't get what people find funny (yet I'm said to make the best jokes), 5. I figure either I get it at a deeper level or no one else gets it at all.
Whenever I see a dog first thing I do is point out aloud the breed, 6. If I were a dog, I would say ,”That's interesting. What's a breed? Is that what you do when the bitch is in heat?
I accidentally stare down people I find interesting, 7. Don't do that with a lion if it's not in a cage.
I purposefully stare down strangers when I have a bad day, 8. Don't do that with a tiger. Ditto.
I almost always take a bag of some sort with me (trying to get rid of this habit, it's really silly), If you are a woman, it's called regular (carrying a purse).
I used to look at my watch automatically about every half hour without reading the time, 9. You never know when someone might steal your watch or put a spell on it.
Now that I don't wear a watch anymore I do the same with my mobile, 10. A paralyzed watch is a terrible thing.
I dislike facing people I talk to frontally (in relaxed situations) so I'd stand sidewards and correct my position whenever they try to face me frontally, 11. I always like to be ready for a quick get away.
I habitually ask if someone can gift me some money instead of someone lend me money for coffee, 12. Do you always leech off people? Good for you.
I generally drink at least two cups of coffee before I leave the house in the morning though not for the sake of waking up, 13. Caffeine is often good for many people's physiology. You are now alive 15 minutes longer than you have a right to be.
Since I can't concentrate on a task I don't actually do, like listening to a lecture that seemingly has no interesting content or the lecturer is just not able to get his/her point across, I write down what they're saying and showing on the presentation (most fellow students don't since the presentations are free to download on the university's site), 14. Someday you will be in the neighborhood of a violent crime and your notes will help solve the case.
Whenever someone asks me to do something and adds something after the initial task, I mostly won't hear it, 15. Sounds reasonable to me. People should say what they mean and then shut the fuck up.
I don't seem to realize most verbal attacks as such if they aren't hindering me from doing something, 17. A good recipe for happiness.
I mostly tell the total unmasked truth, unasked for (except for when it's beneficial to lie for me of course), 18. Works for me.
I have never truly planned a presentation yet have never had a worse mark than 2 in school (which is more-or-less a B), 19. I diagnose you as an idiot savant.
I can get excited over trivial stuff like pencils, magnets and the like, 20. As soon as you invent a neg pencil, magnet, and the like, we will all admire you and award you many prizes and much money.
Did I forget something? Probably yes, I don't know xD 20. I am senile. How would I know if you forgot something.
So, this is why I keep telling people I'm a sort-of Aspie. There are at least 26 sorts, one for each letter of the alphabet. Which are you.
Nobody gives a shit. I'm not ready to go to sleep, so this is just something pointless to do. I'm an ethical nihilist. Do you know what that means?
Soooooo....are you a sociopath or assburgers? I worked with autistic kids for about 2 years implementing applied behavior analysis, but I don't have any experience with adults so I don't have much experience with "aspies" I'll have to look more in to this.
DeleteRA, you're better than a good coffee in the morning. Except for two of your jokes all were really funny. If you're able to tell which ones you might get a wish granted. Or maybe not. Depends.
DeleteI'm an official "academic" soon-to-be scientist and existential nihilist, I know what an ethical nihilist is, still I'd love to hear your personal definition. Not a matter of no mattering at all, you can't sleep anyway.
Dr. Ginger, seems like I'm a pathologically lying manipulative assburger with shallow affect, low nihilistic empathy, and a fictional master degree in theory of mind. xD
DeleteSo ur like the Ted Bundy of science?
DeleteHa, exactly! Just that I don't like my name abbreviated as 'Ted'.... and I'm not a convicted murderer.
DeleteDr. G, regarding NPD vs. BPD, do you have grandiose beliefs and fantasies?
Delete@RA: You ROCK!!! That was fun!. 8)~
Delete@Dr. G: Ma's been on a bender about my narc streak, so I was curious. I'd rather be BPD - the NPD's I've known can be really unpleasant to be around. BPD's, on the other hand, as long as they aren't pissed, can' be a lot of fun.
@Dr. SF: I can't speak for Dr. G, but FWIW I can be quite grandiose. As I get older, I take it a lot less seriously - I channel it into humor, mostly. When I was young, it caused me more than a little stress - living up to the legend I had created in my mind was hard work..
"Dr. G, regarding NPD vs. BPD, do you have grandiose beliefs and fantasies?" I haaaavveee.....lotsa....megalomania :D:D:D:D
DeleteHL I really think NPD is just high functioning bpd. I'll follow the research to see what they continue to come up with. So far it's very little that differentiates it from other PD's.. Anyone with a PD is narcissistic.
DeleteI don't think grandiosity is listed as a diagnostic criteria of BPD. If I am wrong let me know. HL, I think many young adults (particularly males) are narcissistic in their youth and tend to grow out of it. That doesn't mean they have a PD or NPD.
DeleteAt the risk of going on a rant, I've written a couple of times that I think the diagnostic definitions of the PDs, particularly cluster Bs, is a mess. The main reason is that there are almost no pure cases. So a person with a diagnosis of one PD often has traits (if not an outright comorbidity) of others. The world doesn't fit cleanly into those labels in the majority of cases.
DeleteAbove, I was referring to the diagnostic labels as they are currently defined.
The sea is calm to-night.
ReplyDeleteThe tide is full, the moon lies fair
Upon the straits;--on the French coast the light
Gleams and is gone; the cliffs of England stand,
Glimmering and vast, out in the tranquil bay.
Come to the window, sweet is the night-air!
Only, from the long line of spray
Where the sea meets the moon-blanch'd land,
Listen! you hear the grating roar
Of pebbles which the waves draw back, and fling,
At their return, up the high strand,
Begin, and cease, and then again begin,
With tremulous cadence slow, and bring
The eternal note of sadness in.
Sophocles long ago
Heard it on the {AE}gean, and it brought
Into his mind the turbid ebb and flow
Of human misery; we
Find also in the sound a thought,
Hearing it by this distant northern sea.
The Sea of Faith
Was once, too, at the full, and round earth's shore
Lay like the folds of a bright girdle furl'd.
But now I only hear
Its melancholy, long, withdrawing roar,
Retreating, to the breath
Of the night-wind, down the vast edges drear
And naked shingles of the world.
Ah, love, let us be true
To one another! for the world, which seems
To lie before us like a land of dreams,
So various, so beautiful, so new,
Hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light,
Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help for pain;
And we are here as on a darkling plain
Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,
Where ignorant armies clash by night.
---- Matthew Arnold
I wuvs you in all your evil glory, kisses mwa :):)
DeleteMaybe one day kids will play sociopaths and empaths instead of cops and robbers.
ReplyDeleteI play that with 1 of my kids already...
Deletevery nice exercise 2 get some idea and controll over emotions.
Anonymous 1
Anons, this is how you can come up with a name for yourself without creating an account:
ReplyDeleteIn the Comment as section, click on Select Profile, instead of Anonymous click on Name/URL (no need to give any URL, just click on that), fill in a name for yourself, leave the URL box empty, and hit continue.
I know, it's a bit more work than one click Anon option, so do it if you care to be addressed directly occasionally at least.
So, since I don't have a logged-in kind of account actually any of the anons can now use my name. This was a fun game in the past our little evil-doers used to play with.
DeleteBy the way, I'd like to introduce one such character to you, UKan. The other day we had a post from 2011's where you saw a lot of UKan. He was the bad ass socio of the SW. He really had an amazing way of putting the narcs on the spot.