Several people notified me about the teenager from Massachussetts who was charged with murder for her role in urging a friend to kill himself.
Here's one link to the story. Fee free to share others that may have a different spin.
I've heard about the dangers of this happening (prosecution for encouraging suicide), but I think this is the first I have seen where the person being indicted wasn't an actual physical participant in the suicide, but rather just someone who facilitated it emotionally or psychologically without bullying, intimidation, or other possibly threatening or unlawful conduct.
This is an interesting case particularly because the victim apparently deleted all recent texts except those that the victim had with the girl? Why? To set her up?
And the oddest thing about this type of charge is that it all seems to boil down to whether she really felt badly for him and it was more like an assisted euthanasia (sympathy), or whether she just wanted to push him over the edge for self-gratification of a power trip or too garner attention and sympathy from others (pure evil)? Probably the thing that is scariest about this are the people who will feel with absolute assurance that they can look into her heart and find either evil or look into the prosecutor's heart and find overreaching or the parents' heart and find an over-willingness to spread the blame that should rightly land on them, etc., when who could know the heart of another, particularly a stranger. I find these sorts of stories to be interesting litmus tests, not just to how people will come out, but what degree of moral surety they have in something that seems so clearly unknowable unless you were one of the principal players, and even then so easy to misunderstand or misapprehend.
Here's one link to the story. Fee free to share others that may have a different spin.
I've heard about the dangers of this happening (prosecution for encouraging suicide), but I think this is the first I have seen where the person being indicted wasn't an actual physical participant in the suicide, but rather just someone who facilitated it emotionally or psychologically without bullying, intimidation, or other possibly threatening or unlawful conduct.
This is an interesting case particularly because the victim apparently deleted all recent texts except those that the victim had with the girl? Why? To set her up?
And the oddest thing about this type of charge is that it all seems to boil down to whether she really felt badly for him and it was more like an assisted euthanasia (sympathy), or whether she just wanted to push him over the edge for self-gratification of a power trip or too garner attention and sympathy from others (pure evil)? Probably the thing that is scariest about this are the people who will feel with absolute assurance that they can look into her heart and find either evil or look into the prosecutor's heart and find overreaching or the parents' heart and find an over-willingness to spread the blame that should rightly land on them, etc., when who could know the heart of another, particularly a stranger. I find these sorts of stories to be interesting litmus tests, not just to how people will come out, but what degree of moral surety they have in something that seems so clearly unknowable unless you were one of the principal players, and even then so easy to misunderstand or misapprehend.
I posted a link to the Huffinggluepost's version of the story yesterday. What I didn't get a chance to comment on was the comments section for that article. All it needed was the torches and pitch forks!
ReplyDeleteI hadn't considered the assisted suicide angle (I went to a silly kids game that wasn't supposed to be real - different folks and all...), but, like M.E,, I find it interesting that people are certain, without knowing the people involved, without seeing the complete transcript, without understanding the context - that this girl is a monster than must be removed from decent society.
Maybe he asked her to help him do it? She felt like she had an obligation to help him follow through - there was nothing "evil" in her intent, misguided, perhaps, but not evil. Now that she did her part she could be dealing with all sorts of difficult emotions - never mind kerfuffle swirling around her at the moment.
Or, maybe he was trying to manipulate her with guilt and she was being pushed over the edge. It could be that she didn't believe for a minute that any of it was really going on and he was just trying to push HER buttons. Whoops!!!
And, as our gracious host has suggested, maybe there was a darn good reason to check out that we haven't heard about yet - a horrible disease that he couldn't bear to face. She was the brave soul that helped him cross over on his own terms.
People may not know the facts, but they sure as well know that their feeling are telling what must be done. It's times like this I am glad to be blunted affectively.
Here's the link again:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/27/teen-encouraged-friend-to-commit-suicide_n_6771964.html?utm_hp_ref=crime
:)
DeleteShe's a high-performing student. If that was coming from an idealistic source she would've done everything to save her friend, not push him over the edge. If there was not enough info to back her role in the process the police would have not been pushing at this level. 1000 text messages kept by the boy? Clearly there is some strong connection between the two.
The only new angle ME brings to my mind is that indeed the boy made it a point to leave those messages behind. Why? Set her up? A part of him knew she was doing something wrong. A part of him could not bear the thought of erasing his master's words. Which part was the one determining to leave it all in there?
Even if he were suffering from a disease that called for euthanasia her role would've been different than asking him to get back with the plan when he was thinking of quitting the plan. To say 'get back in' is so strong that an empath would have a very hard time dealing with its intention of being helpful.
What I expect to come out of this story is further motivation as to why she would've liked him gone.
Look at his own pictures and family pictures here. What do they tell you? http://www.smh.com.au/world/get-back-in-michelle-carter-urged-friend-conrad-roy-to-kill-himself-police-allege-20150302-13sbn0.html
HL @ 4:24 - "Whoops!!!" Really???!!! Finally!! The SPs favorite murder tactic is exposed for what it is. Murder by Coward!
DeleteROTFLMAO!!!
Delete...now do be goin an tellin all me secrets now...as long as I get away with it...
[smirk]
unknowable? 1000+ text messages is pretty damning evidence. Especially when you cross reference those texts with the texts she was sending everyone else. She was definitely playing two separate games.
ReplyDeleteThe boy was a wussy, that's why he's dead. He killed himself to honor the
ReplyDeleteorders of his "mistress." He thought she might bestole sex on him.
It didn't work. A girl like that would only give it up for the "macho" black male.
A girl like that only has contempt for today's white male weakling.
The dopey white male has arrainged his own destruction all in the name of
"alturism."
Many of today's white woman would rather go to Syria in search of a real man.
She can wash his clothes in a washboard, and give birth to his 10 children.
So let me get this straight. Your definition of a strong man is someone so brainwashed by extremist ideology that he willingly goes around hacking people's heads off with a meat cleaver to prove his worth to his artificial God? You think most women would rather wash the clothes of such a man than live in an environment characterized by freedom and equality? Lol. That would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.
DeleteYou represent the worst of mankind. You are not strong- you are so abjectly weak, in mind and spirit, that you think the only way to assert dominance is to physically overpower someone. This is because you lack the charm and intellect to draw others to yourself so that they might do your bidding willingly.
As someone succinctly pointed out yesterday: "the physically dominant often have their strings pulled by the psychologically dominant". You're a thug-puppet, waiting to have your cords yanked by your superiors.
You are correct that some women will be attracted to guys like you. Weak women and weak mean belong together. But strong, beautiful, successful, confident women will see right through you, and reject you accordingly.
Therein lies the root of your misogyny. (Look it up, retard.) You are resentful because you'll never garner the attention of the kind of woman you erroneously think you deserve. That is because strong, intelligent women demand mutual respect. It is true that even a strong woman may willingly submit to a strong man, but that strength has to come from within. You don't have to be black and buff to be assertive, confident and sexy. But you will have to prove yourself worthy of her companionship- and you are obviously not of that caliber.
Good luck finding the kind of woman you deserve from amongst the throng of ditzy idiots who think they're better off in Syria. :)
Well, I really liked this line, A: "That is because strong, intelligent women demand mutual respect."
DeleteFreedom and equality are essential, which were well stated in here as well: "You think most women would rather wash the clothes of such a man than live in an environment characterized by freedom and equality?"
Anonymous at 5:21 AM:
DeleteAlso considering today's topic, the "eulogy" you wrote deserves a highbrow "No." Rightly.
So do any of you other sociopaths have the ridiculous habit of having sympathy for characters that others revile? I have friends where I let my mask drop. We watch movies. I'm the one that is always feeling bad for Darth Vader, or Jew Hunter (Inglourious Basterds) or Walter White or Khan (from Wrath of Khan) - basically, if there's. a selfish guy with an immoral/amoral plan and he comes in conflcit with others and gets shafted, I feel sorry for him. perhaps it is that I have a bit of empathy and compassion, and it most naturally arises for grandiose amoral people like me.
ReplyDeletein any case, the girl is 18. If she were a kid, the parents would be all to blame. but she's over the line, so she pays all the price. nevermind about her genes, early childhood environment, etc. even if she doesn't do time, her life is ruined thanks to the internet. she might as well just go into porn and live an outlaw's life.
would people blame the girl if she had a tumor pressing on her VMPFC? probably not. so she'll get classed as evil and tossed away. when there is a cure for this moral intuitions will change.
Now I KNOW this is a web site of "paths."
ReplyDeleteThe thought doesn't occur to anyone that M.E. might be contemplating suicide and that her post today might be a cry for help.
Wrong place, M.E. IF you are contemplating suicide (and you might not be; I am just speculating on little information), please consult a qualified mental health specialist, perhaps someone like "us" just so you can feel a connection (if "paths" can connect). Do I care? Not much. I have become mildly addicted to your web site. I am mildly addicted to living. If you disappear from the Internet, someone else like you will appear. Someone always does.
Who are you?
DeleteI doubt M.E would ever commit suicide.
DeleteRA, your theory is feasible. Here is why we must not indulge it.
DeleteCleckley asserted in his original checklist that sociopaths make threats of suicide but never carry them out, and neither Hare nor Dutton have challenged that point. There is a low percentage chance that ME is feeling a little auto-terminal, but a much higher chance that she is feeling manipulative. Despite her great service to our f*cked up little community, we must remember what she is.
Besides, if ME died, where would all the fifteen year old girls who think they are sociopaths find someone to post their symptoms on a widely read blog? ME can't leave the adolescent females she feels so connected to in their hour of need.
Why do you want to know, Mr. or Mrs. Anonymous 12:56 pm? Who are you?
ReplyDeleteI am a 71-year old fanatical atheist who lives on Whidbey Island. Before I tell you anything else, I want to know something about who you are and why you want to know.
Well, I will say this. I am pretty sure I am not a full out psychopath or sociopath, but I am much lower in empathy than the average bear. That's not a good metaphor. I would say that I am to a "path" as a dog is to a wolf. That is, when a well-behaved and fairly well-domesticated dog hears a pack of wolves howling, the dog feels an urge to run into the woods and rip some throats and lap some blood. But I don't. At least not yet.
RA, how did you come up with the idea that ME may be suicidal? I saw no hint of it in her post. Are you projecting? Do you ever contemplate suicide? You often are preoccupied with death. Are you rebelling against life this early in the game?
DeleteOf course I am projecting. Don't you? Doesn't everyone? As I said, "I am just speculating on little information." Part of my speculation is based on the rather peculiar (at least to me, but what do I know?) atmosphere and tone of her blog over the last few months. Perhaps she is thinking of doing her self in and disappearing one of these weeks, leaving us all hanging. Her last little joke. Doing an Ambrose Bierce
Delete"In 1913, Bierce traveled to Mexico to gain first-hand experience of the Mexican Revolution. While traveling with rebel troops, he disappeared without a trace."
Mexico would be even better today. Drug cartels and all.
Oh, sounds more like a disappearing act. That could make sense. I mean she keeps saying my family loves me, I'm connected and stuff but who knows. She could get bored of them, too. A whole new life in a whole new country is sort of appealing. but it's a mistake to let go of the existing support system. Unless one has an artistic or nature-based strong connection to another country it's very hard to step out of the US for living purposes. US is far much more fun than a lot of countries I know, especially for the a-bit-anti-social or a-bit-more-individualistic types.
Delete...and "reply" is working again...
DeleteHi RA: I dig AB - The Devil's Dictionary is a favorite in the Haller household. And yeah - the Abrahamic traditions have made for some...um..difficulties...
The way in which people respond to these sort of events (that is - emotionally) constantly reminds me of how important it is to hide these specific aspects of oneself. In any rational society the emotions felt by either party (defendant/prosecutor) would be largely irrelevant yet here we are, witnessing these responses.
ReplyDeletePeople love a monster. If they can create one, accuse it and then put it down, all from the comfort of their own home, without ever knowing anything about that person - that'll suite them. People don't need real reasons apart from emotion to condemn someone who is different for them the way we are.
My husband's coworker committed suicide last month. He left a wife and two boys behind. My hubby and I viewed it differently.
ReplyDeleteHe walked in on his wife having an affair around Christmas time and then hung himself a month later. My hubby was like, I hope she feels bad by what her actions caused him into doing. That women was his whole life. His family meant the world to him.
I said no, it's not her fault....He had a responsibility himself to seek help for his feelings of lost hope, possibly a broken marriage and seek counseling for himself. I'm not favouring the wife's actions by having an affair..... but affairs happen all the time ( and theirs many reasons for them) and it's up to the couple to either restore the relationship or move on from the monogamous relationship and look at other options. Mt heart actually went out to her and the children because, now, everyone will blame her on behalf of her extramarital affair for the rest of her life.
And now those boys will hate their mother if they ever find out. They lost a father and possibly lots of hate towards their mother
In most countries the guy would rather kill the wife. This must be the US of A.
DeleteShut up, anon 8:12. Let he who has no sin cast the first stone, asshole.
DeleteA, are you suffering from blue balls? You sound too tense, man. (And, this equally applies if you're a woman, too. Unload your load, just not here).
DeleteI'll jizz anywhere I want, 812. Last night, I chose your face. I couldn't help myself. Your comment was too irresistibly inane.
DeleteAll that to say that Superchick is right. We all make poor choices sometimes. The guy who killed himself is responsible for his own actions.
I always (well, once in a while) try to be helpful. If someone is contemplating suicide, they should do so where it is legal. http://www.assistedsuicide.org/suicide_laws.html
ReplyDeleteHow do you punish someone for committing suicide? Not a Catholic, but why is suicide a "sin?" Why do people believe anything as stupid as religion?
For me, I don't believe it's wrong no right. It's a very grey issue. We've all felt the sting of suicidal ideation.... but I would always try to offer my help & aid to the individual contemplating suicided and tell them to go into hospital.
ReplyDeleteUltimately though, they make their own choices.
My grandfather committed suicide at an old age....but to me his life was not wasted... His legacy lives on.. and now I get to observe my own behaviours, triggers, treatment plan and offer compassion to my own father.
He was probably bipolar/borderline and had no idea how to handle the cycling of it when the crash hit hard after my nana became very sick and went into a nursing home.
Back then we knew nothing about brain functioning.... how we know of it now.
I think there are two people (hard to know for sure) that I nudged enough that they decided not to commit suicide.
ReplyDeleteI once worked with a very attractive (though rather nasty) woman named Margo who tried to seduce me. I was too timid (and sensibly cautious) to pursue the invitation. She told me once that her mother had committed suicide and that Margo at age 10 had discovered the body. In retrospect, I wonder if discovering her mom's suicide did not play a role in forming margo's adult very nasty and slutty behavior. Oh, well, none of us can pick our parents and who knows why any of us are what we are.
: D ya well never know sometimes the impact on lives that we have touched in one way or the oother. Nice to hear RA. :)
DeleteWomen can act like that because it feels as it's devotion being given to them. And we all crave that whether realize it or not. It's a human need. I observe behaviour closely, as to why we act the way we do...i try to do it without judgment attached because I'm open in my talk to my hubs; and maybe sometimes people can mistaken me for a slut online at times......Idk for sure ......that's an accusation on my part. But either way, it's ok, I get me.. and hubs gets me. It's sometimes impulse and strong sexual desire. I have never had an actual physical affair. Not saying my behaviour is totally justified; it just is the way it is every so often. ;)
Well it's ridiclious to say that women aren't attracted to aggressive
ReplyDeletedetermined men. They are called Alpha men. No one likes a wussy. They get
walked on.
Many bitter men that have been "friend zoned" say that 20% of the top men, get
80% of the female attention. High status men.
If the ocassional raised voice, or punch occurs, they can put up with that. Who wouldn't take George Clooney over the wash room attendant. Bill Cosby's wife
has a billion reasons to stay with him. If a women wants to take care of something weak, she can adopt a pet.
Male desire: Physical attraction. Female desire: High status man.
The Astrology chart DOES indicate how we fare in these areas.
Why NOT commit suicide if your life is nothing but a prolonged torture?
Male desire: Sexual attractiveness, loyalty and challenge.
ReplyDeleteFemale desire: Sexual attractiveness, power, and challenge.
Astrology? Bullshit.
The woman in this case clearly attempted to manipulate the man. All text messages apart from hers were deleted. She was indirectly responsible for his demise.
As a female attorney, of course M.E. would seek to find a way to exonerate the woman.
I want to clarify 2 things, because in re-reading this, I realized that I was not specific enough:
Delete1- When I said that M.E. would of course seek to find a way to exonerate the woman, I didn't mean that she would automatically wish to do so by virtue of her gender- just that she would be probably be interested in the potential defensive and prosecutorial aspects of the case, from the woman's perspective. I say that because if I were a lawyer, I probably would be, so there is a degree of projection in that statement.
2- Yes, women are attracted to powerful men, but only if that power comes as part of a good package deal. I got lucky- but then, I saw potential where others might not have. I struck gold in my husband, both literally and figuratively- but I certainly wasn't digging for it! Neither of us had a pot to piss in when we started out. I was more interested in what he was like on the inside. I *saw* what he was truly made of, and snapped him right up. It was an excellent choice.
That said, I'd choose a witty, funny, washroom attendant over a genuinely cruel sonofabitch any day of the week. I might walk on him a bit, but then, he'd likely enjoy it, so it's all good. :)
A punch is only acceptable on occasion if the man can take what he dishes, and the woman can dish what she takes.
And, just to be sure the obvious is stated, Anon 3:14- why not CHANGE your life, if it has become an exercise in frustration and torture, as opposed to taking the cowardly route of suicide?
DeleteYou bemoan the plight of 80% of men who purportedly glean all the female attention... (And it sounds as though you pulled those stats out if your ass- or some equally shitty "alpha male" blog)
...And in the next breath, you seek to justify something as weak as suicide.
What does that say about *your* level of strength, hm?
A strong man takes responsibility for his life and changes the things which require adjustment. He doesn't kill himself like a helpless victim of circumstance.
*the 80% of men who purportedly glean only 20% of the female attention, that is.
DeleteFor some reason, the website isn't letting me post a reply...
ReplyDelete@Sceli March 2, 2015 at 6:35 AM: To me he seems like a pretty normal teenager from New England. New England is it's own micro-culture. Did you glean anything more?
@ SC, RA, and the rest of the suicide discussion.
Preface: This apples to the USA ('Merka!) and similar Western Cultures.
I've know several people that have committed suicide over the years and I very nearly did in my 20's (that was the nadir that got me into therapy where I started getting my shit together).
I don't see suicide as inherently right or wrong - death is inevitable; choosing ones own time makes sense to me (meditating mummy's anyone?). To me it's more about how one goes about it. If all those close to you understand and aren't surprised, then it could be a good thing. Or, if no one is prepared or sees it coming and it's messy like a shotgun to the head indoors - not a nice thing to do to the people that are left behind to clean up YOUR mess. Not so good.
I have a difficult time seeing any real distinction between assisted suicide and euthanasia. In both cases the person checking out is doing so to avoid pain - physical and/or psychological. In both cases, the person believe (right or wrongly) that the distress they are feeling will never end.
The real problem, which we are slowly addressing, is how to go about giving people a way to do it that doesn't cause more collateral damage (i.e. the pain of the family and friends). For terminally ill people we are finally, in some areas, finding ways to help people facing horrible deaths check out before it becomes terrible.
A couple of years ago someone very close (but unrelated) had a grandmother die. It took her weeks because of the pacemaker that they couldn't shut down and there were no other (legal and proven) alternatives available. All they could do is sit and watch her suffer wishing the damn pacemaker would just stop working. I see this as needless suffering.
Practically speaking, what is needed (in my not very humble opinion) is a way for people who want to check out to do so in a way that doesn't leave big messes - bloody, legal, financial, emotional, whatever. I think giving people a way to check out that is legal and clean and painless (if that's what they want) would be a real benefit to the world.
RE: ME's Mental State and the Blog:
My take is that she's bored with blogging (only for now, I hope) and/or busy doing other stuff. The website is a source of income, so there's reason to provide minimal maintenance.
But, what do I know - I'm just an asshole on the internet. 8)~
Hi, HLH. I don't see any difference between assisted suicide and euthanasia either. It's the definition of 'assist' that I'm challenhing in this case. Assist is to help someone execute something, not control the decision making process against the wishes of that person. If the person's goal changes in the process you assist with the new goal, not stay with the past goal and make sure the person stays through that goal. That's controlling, not assisting.
DeleteThis girl did not allow room for the guy to change his mind when he was working on it. That's just not assisting someone. She should be fired, no pun intended, lol...
Well said both of you. Valid points made and to consider for sure. Sometimes I get much satisfaction how we cluster b "disorders" like they say... ;) think from all angles and varying diversities.. it just not black & white..
DeleteAnd now I must drop dead on my pillow and sleep. Long day. Night all. All be alive in morn and up & ready. : D
Hi Sceli,
DeleteI was a bit unclear - I WAS intending to equate what she did to euthanasia.
The scenario that I can relate to would be that she was acting as a "coach." Helping him follow through on the suicide. It's not a view I expect a lot of people can relate to - but even in Seppuku, there is a kiashakunin.
At this point we are just speculating on the few selected tidbits that the media put into the story.
...and I suggest that even the transcripts won't tell the whole story.
HLH,
Delete"...and I suggest that even the transcripts won't tell the whole story."
The truth prevails at one point or another, and it will be the same with this particular story.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWhy are you acting like a shrinking violet, pretty Rose?
DeleteEvery silver lining has a cloud. Human beings live a lot longer than we used to (in general). All life is fragile. As animals, we are pushed by two main drives: survive and pass on genes. (We are genes in tight jeans.) If someone decides the pain ratio is too high, it begins to make sense to end one's life. The decision to suicide may be based on faulty information or mental processing, so at times it makes sense for society to intervene and prevent suicide. At times, the decision can be rational and informed. Although "free will" is a problematical concept, it's fairly necessary for our functioning to believe in it. Long way of saying, at times suicide, whether done all by oneself or with expert help, makes sense. The justification is never obvious and clear, the dangers and temptations of "helping" people are great. Nobody said life is easy. I think I will live for another day. M.E. probably will, also.
ReplyDeleteAll life involves suffering. When the ratio of suffering to enjoyment becomes negative
20% of men get 80% of the women! Not 80% of the men get 20% of the
ReplyDeletewoman. People who are "lucky" have a reason for being "lucky."
The Astrological chart is a road map that tells us that.
I'm certainly NOT the most hideious beast that ever walked the Earth, but I was
sure treated as such. Why? I never knew. Not until I discovered Astrology.
I had never done anything deliberately to antagonise women. Maybe, I was one
of those guys that "didn't get it," so that's why I never "got it." I don't want to go
on any "pity parades," but the billigsgate has been brutal. Almost like the film
"Carrie," though I never had her powers to avenge myself. I don't want to be like
most people who blame others for their problems. In life, you either rage, or you
accept. Of the two sub par choices, I chose to accept. In any case, once I
learned Astrology, I could see what the problem was: I had Saturn in the 5th
house of my chart. The 5th house deals with pleasure: sex, gambling, (Isn't sex
a gamble?) creativity and children. There was my answer. The problem wasn't
women per se, it was women's natural reactions to me,
(Which they can't control.) You can't blame people for reacting in a way that is
only natural for them.
Here's the benefit: I needn't grab a gun and start blasting away at "wicked
women." If I so desired I could turn the gun on MYSELF thus sparing many
lives. That's what Eliot Rodger should have done and many other inferior men
who can't get a girl to save their lives.
I'm not yet at the point I want to do it, but the time will come. "The door is open"
to a bright cheery world. I don't need an unobtainible female to encourage me to
do it, I have made an educated, informed choice to do it.
Actually, if 20% of men get 80% of women, then it naturally follows that 80% of men get 20% of women. Duh.
DeleteSee? That's what happens when you start to orient your life on the basis of astrology and "Chateau Hirtiste". (Yeah. I see you.)
My astrology chart is *horrible*. What excuse do I have for not succumbing to the foreboding aspects it purportedly reveals?
By shifting the blame from yourself to a mystical ideology that is based on antiquated notions in astronomy, you avoid taking responsibility for your life. You alone are responsible for the choices you make, and what you project.
I challenge you to list 5 good things about yourself: 2 physical, 3 related to your personality.
Think you can handle that before showing the muzzle of a Glock 35 down your gullet? :P
Astrology has nothing to do with getting women.
DeleteTry the the exercise at https://theprivateman.wordpress.com/2014/10/26/a-dating-exercise-for-women-re-post/
with the sexes reversed. Maybe it will keep you from going all Eliot Rodger.
And it's "Chateau Heartiste" - https://heartiste.wordpress.com
"Heartiste". Whatever. I knew you'd comment on this.
DeleteThere's just so much shit on that blog. A few bits of decent advice for how to be assertive, perhaps... But I wouldn't put up with being treated the way the author advises men to treat women for one bloody second- let alone come crawling back to him! Ha ha. It's been tried. Men have been gutted. :P
Not. One. Second. :)
As for your second link... That's some good advice.
Usually, the less game works on a girl, the more of a keeper she is.
DeleteWhat a charming reply. You also answered my question to you in another thread- albeit inadvertently.
DeleteNicely done. :)
So I decided to research this whole "alpha male" phenomenon last night. I heard some acquaintances discuss it recently, and it always makes me disdainful, though I couldn't put my finger on why, because it is true that women like strong men. So I looked into it.
DeleteI read almost all of CH. There are indeed truths on this site which make people uncomfortable. But some of it is such garbage that it is laughable.
These PUA sites ubiquitously claim that Real Alpha Men(tm) are only interested in mousy women who are uber-submissive and less intelligent than they are. Some of these blogs go so far as to state that education "ruins" a woman, that women are valuable solely in terms of their physical attractiveness, and that the average male is repelled and emasculated by strong, confident women. That says as much about the kind of guy the author represents as the ditzy, weak women these men invariably attract.
A man who can't respect a woman as his equal projects a repulsive vibe. I'm not currently on the dating market, but I could *always* tell when a guy was treating me like a piece of meat- and these are kinds of men whose confidence it delighted me to undermine. They are easy to spot, because underneath the false veneer of confidence they desperately wish to convey, they hide a soft, yellow underbelly of insecurity that is a pleasure to gut. (Jay from SC is the perfect example. XD)
In my personal experience, worthy men with "alpha" traits- social dominance, confidence and assertiveness- have always been *attracted* to these attributes in me. They've enjoyed the challenge I've represented for them. And real betas have a sexual plasticity and willingness to experiment that is attractive all on its own. It is hard to draw these traits out of a real alpha man. It takes time, well-invested, lol.
Now I understand why you said you've never had any female friends. By reducing people to stereotypes solely to pick them up, you've effectively dehumanized half of the population. That may be fine for a quick lay- but a good one might prove elusive, because a woman who can blow your mind in the bedroom is likely to be one who can hold her own in others areas, as well.
As a woman, having all of one's interactions objectified and categorized in terms of "game" is repelling. And yet, I admit, in some ways, that is precisely how I view the world: In terms of a landscape and people that I can manipulate. So I admit to being somewhat hypocritical in this regard.
Ultimately, bleeding all one's candidates for a soul-mate dead is a self -destructive game in which there are no winners, only losers.
> I read almost all of CH. There are indeed truths on this site which make
Delete> people uncomfortable. But some of it is such garbage that it is laughable.
It is "where pretty lies perish" after all.
He's into HBD and some of his posts on race can be out there. One of his best was when he said Adolf Hitler was a beta male who wouldn't have started WWII if he'd read his site. LOL! :P
i'll make a longer post later. Too tired now.
A,
DeleteI am the same Anonymous from March 2, 2015 at 1:55 PM.
Likewise, I read almost all of "Chateau Hirtiste" (calling it by its real name would give it the credit that it does not deserve), and I agree that most of the information is a mix of repelling refuse and ludicrous compost. True, some concepts would make people feel uncomfortable, but seeing it in all of its absurdity is exactly what I have done.
While I agree that women like strong men, the “alpha male” idea has been widely misunderstood among small-minded circles of men lacking in intellectual abilities and evolved thinking processes.
You are quite right about the author of the website, whose opinions reflect the ridiculous ideas expounded by the other blogs in question. Actually, when I recently confronted the author about gender equality, and about adopting a more rational way of viewing modern society, he rudely and disrespectfully called a “bitch.” Education is highly and equally important to both men and women, and I believe that acquiring as much knowledge and insight as possible is a life-long learning experience. In all truth, an educated and enlightened mind is an evolved and respected mind.
Clearly, the author of the website does not respect a woman as his equal, which only projects his deep-rooted insecurities and a false sense of self.
“In my personal experience, worthy men with "alpha" traits- social dominance, confidence and assertiveness- have always been *attracted* to these attributes in me. They've enjoyed the challenge I've represented for them.”
Once again, I agree with your views on the above, but, it is important to acknowledge that those men are also highly intelligent and confident, which clearly separates one group from another. An astute woman would find it rather easy to identify a man who objectifies and classifies all exchanges in terms of “game.” It can only lead to destruction, and the only loser is the man who decides to play such low-level games. In fact, through sheer projection, he is making himself appear and sound inferior.
A,
DeleteCorrection for word omission above: he rudely and disrespectfully called [me] a “bitch.”
Damaged,
DeleteA real and intelligent woman can see through any repulsive game.
Your true, underhanded purpose for phrasing the section of your comment about Adolf Hitler in such a "covert" way can be clearly deduced by a razor-sharp mind. Adolf Hitler was a cruel, malevolent and barbarous monster (human waste), and nothing more than that. The same deduction can be made about the posts on race. Abject.
"Chateau Hirtiste" is a stolid, bottom-dwelling site.
Anon, I am not a contributor at Chateau de merde, but when I posted here regularly, being called a bitch was practically a compliment. xD
DeleteThat said, I fully agree with your sentiment concerning CH, and weak vs. truly strong men.
Damaged can speak for himself, but to my understanding, he was laughing at the sheer stupidity of some of the blogger's comments. As someone good at reading between the lines, I think you are reading too much into his.
@Anonymous 6:50 AM
Delete> Your true, underhanded purpose for phrasing the section of your
> comment about Adolf Hitler in such a "covert" way can be clearly
> deduced by a razor-sharp mind.
Too bad you didn't get it. My purpose for using that comment was that it's totally ridiculous.
@Anonymous 6:24 AM
> Actually, when I recently confronted the author about gender equality,
> and about adopting a more rational way of viewing modern society, he
> rudely and disrespectfully called a “bitch.”
Where did you confront him?
I think there's some confusion here. Maybe some examples will clear things up. Suppose I'm at a night club and I meet a girl that has appeared on Tag The Sponsor (http://tagthesponsor.com). I'm not going to think much of her and I won't be looking for a relationship from her. She has a nice body that I want to have sex with. I'll try to pick her up for as one night stand. All I want from her is sex and when we're done I'm going to forget about her.
Now say I meet M.E. at a party. It's going to be obvious right away that trying to pick her up isn't going to work as she'll see thru it. If I try, she's going smile at me as if to say "You're cute." like she did at Dr. Phil when he told her that she wasn't a sociopath. I won't care though because she's interesting and I'll look at her as more than just a piece of ass. I would want to talk to her and see what she's like, etc. I would be my natural self.
Gasp @ the thought that you might look at any woman as more than a piece of ass. ;)
DeleteAre you saying that sociopath women are by default more interesting than their em-pathetic counterparts?
You bigot! :P
They're possibly more interesting, but I think sociopath women are easier to get along with.
Delete"Where did you confront him?"
DeleteDamaged,
I am Anonymous from March 7, 2015 at 6:50 AM.
In response to your question, it is quite difficult to communicate with a person having a deteriorating mental illness (not a sociopath, though).
No matter what a person with a serious mental illness says about me, and no matter how disrespectful he becomes in terms of rudeness, lies, mental fabrications and spitefulness, I would not take it personally, and I am certainly not going to let any of his comments affect me. I am doing so for obvious reasons, since a person with a deteriorating mental illness does not realize what he is saying or doing.
I am a well-respected person, and I don't do things that are disreputable.
I confronted him about these particular issues via email, but talking to him in a mental health facility/a mental hospital would have been more appropriate. And, yes, I would give the "damaged" man/the author a smile, and that is because I'd feel pity for him. That is my natural self.
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ReplyDeleteAssisted suicide? Sort of like how Facebook has access to everything on your phone and everything you post, or even write on the platform? It's not what you know, it's what you decide to do with the knowledge you have... And on that note, the girl knowingly chose to use the information she had on the boy to nudge him in a direction that caused him to commit suicide? Feelings aside, it's pretty obvious she is guilty of a crime.
ReplyDeleteWhat crime? Statute?
DeleteHomicide
DeleteBesides a couple of yellow articles that have been posted, do you have access to more information? What was her intent? What was her motive?
DeleteIntent is already described in her actions. Motive doesn't determine whether or not she's guilty.
DeleteTime for a new post. This thread is dead, dead, dead, dead. I am barely alive from the boredom of it.
ReplyDeleteThe link in the post doesn't mention the awesome part of this:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.inquisitr.com/1880138/michelle-carter-massachusetts-teen-encouraged-peer-to-commit-suicide-then-tried-to-raise-money-in-his-name/
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