I thought that this recent comment from an old post showed a good deal of wisdom and was overall good advice.
I am the partial empath who adapted to the reality check. I gave the mental pink slip to the person I encountered even though I am not in his range of vision anymore. I certainly can't change anyone, and it is self-destructive and foolish to harbor hatred when there are so many other great stuff of life to enjoy. The unapologetic sociopath is forgivable (release that person and move on with your life) because lack of remorse has qualified him/herself to be dispensable. To all you empaths out there, there is no ethical need to pause for the sociopath who never intended to pause life for you. You can't help someone who doesn't want to change.
I am the partial empath who adapted to the reality check. I gave the mental pink slip to the person I encountered even though I am not in his range of vision anymore. I certainly can't change anyone, and it is self-destructive and foolish to harbor hatred when there are so many other great stuff of life to enjoy. The unapologetic sociopath is forgivable (release that person and move on with your life) because lack of remorse has qualified him/herself to be dispensable. To all you empaths out there, there is no ethical need to pause for the sociopath who never intended to pause life for you. You can't help someone who doesn't want to change.
It reminds me of the book Unbroken, which I am just finishing. It's kind of a funny read for me because the childhood chapters read a lot like the childhood chapters of my book -- listing a bunch of shenanigans that make it clear that the child is taking childhood pranks one step further than most. (It actually makes me wonder a bit at the people who insist we can diagnose children based primarily at their antisocial behavior.) I won't spoil the book for anyone who hasn't read or seen the movie (or knows of the underlying facts), I'll just quote:
The paradox of vengefulness is that it makes men dependent upon those who have harmed them, believing that their release from pain will come only when they make their tormentors suffer.
I actually think Unbroken is a great book for people who would like to adopt this ability to let go of the (often one-sided) emotional connection that they still have with their abusers, long after the actual abuse is over. Of course, I can't advocate dismissing a whole category of human beings as "negligible" in the grand scheme of things, e.g. as being a lower form of humanity than you are so you wash your hands of their suffering/fate. But I definitely think you can dismiss particular traits of a particular person as being, how the commenter put it, "dispensable", or "able to be done without". That, in fact, it's almost impossible (paradoxically) for many people to see their abuser as a human being without first condemning and then dismissing a few of their worst traits as being morally repugnant to them. Once those traits of the abuser are condemned/rejected/dismissed with finally in one's mind, all that one is left with is a flawed human being that may be more flawed than most, but actually shares in common with every other human being the fact that it is flawed at all.
When, as a teenager, I would make harsh and/or critical statements about people, my step father (who I credit with getting me pointed in more constructive directions) used to say respond with, something along the lines of, "yeah, can you imagine what a drag it is to wake up every day and be that person?"
ReplyDeleteHe was the person who introduced me to the power of gratitude.
I am far from his level of maturity - even at this stage of life, but I do try to keep that in mind when I'm feeling angry/frustrated/ready-to-put-someone-on-the-to-do-list. Helps give me perspective.
There is no substitue for positive behavior on your part, regardless of
ReplyDeletewhat the offender has done you. Nothing is to be obtained from evening scores
except a temparory feeling of triumph, which dissapates quickly.
Only the "born again" experience can give new life to people.
Good post.
ReplyDeleteI recently sort of cut someone off who had a repeating behaviour that was disturbing.
Letting go of of someone who is upsetting you, whether it's just an asshole who will never change, or even a person with a personality disorder who is trying to dominate you (example: making you believe you are the one who is wrong and should be apologizing), is just so much easier. Especially if you can do it from a neutral standpoint without holding any grudges.
M.E.,
ReplyDelete“But I definitely think you can dismiss particular traits of a particular person as being, how the commenter put it, "dispensable", or "able to be done without".”
I agree with your thoughts on this subject, and, likewise, having read “Unbroken,” I can see how you have formulated and related your analysis, commencing with childhood and ending with adulthood.
Living in/with hatred is undoubtedly self-destructive, but there are so many "typicals," as I like to call them, that do so and invariably perpetuate this vicious cycle. Aside from that, I profoundly know that, inherently, everyone is different, and like the protagonist, there are those who seldom: “…rose to run again. He didn’t run from something or to something, not for anyone or in spite of anyone; he ran because it was what his body wished to do. The restiveness, the self-consciousness, and the need to oppose disappeared. All he felt was peace.” Then, throughout life’s journey, one can find himself/herself so different from the rest that finding understanding, or complete understanding, in another soul becomes a rare occurrence.
This is the decisive, unbroken quote that defines so much and appealed to me: “Confident that he was clever, resourceful, and bold enough to escape any predicament, [Louie] was almost incapable of discouragement. When history carried him into war, this resilient optimism would define him.”
“Unbroken”
Thanks for the reference of the book, M.E.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate this blog and have sympathy for you because it put lights and helps to bring consciousness on questions that remain very obscure for most people. And to me it's at the heart of our world's wounds, and ours. It's goes beyond "sociopath world" here, but I find the name funny, especially when a "victim" says to her friends "Hey I found a sociopath blog!". I let you imagine the friend's reaction "Oh god...".
That said, I really believe there are no sociopaths, no victims, only human beings with flaws as you said, reflections of the world they have been growing in, that need to release themselves from the pain, to learn to grow, to know who they are, to heal their wounds, and slowly open the doors of their inner mental jails. And communicating on this is a good way to do that.
"And communicating on this is a good way to do that."
DeleteI agree with this point, Glad. People see things from a different angle when they are made of aware or realize and fully understand the life experiences of another.
"That said, I really believe there are no sociopaths, no victims, only human beings with flaws..."
This is also true.
Glad,
DeleteI find this to be true as well: "It's goes beyond "sociopath world" here..."
"The paradox of vengefulness is that it makes men dependent upon those who have harmed them, believing that their release from pain will come only when they make their tormentors suffer. "
ReplyDeleteSome people have questioned how I was able to forgive my father after he committed so many heinous crimes. (He spent several years in prison for an act of extreme violence, engaged in drug dealing when I was a child, thereby endangering our home, cheated repeatedly on my mother, and sporadically beat the crap out of me when he lost his temper.)
Until my mid-twenties, I did harbour resentment towards the man- but never to the point of hatred or outright rejection. It would seem that I am incapable of holding grudges- or any emotional state- for extended periods, with the conspicuous exception of the love I have for immediate family members. But even that has a more pragmatic flavor than a sustained emotional one.
Understanding *his* troubled past (which makes my childhood with him look like a cakewalk) and the influences which shaped him helped me to release any residual anger I had towards him. Understanding and accepting my own emotional limitations, as well as taking partial responsibility for the things I used to blame entirely upon him, also helped to that effect.
They say no child "asks for it"- but if anyone could, I did. I was a perfect hellion as a teenager. I pushed his buttons on purpose. I provoked him relentlessly. I refused to obey any of his directives, openly disrespected him in front others, and was aggressively confrontational- to the point of goading him on when I perceived that he was going to pop a gasket... I'd get right in his face and yell as loud as him: "Come on.... Hit me, you asshole!!" When he did, I hit back- and relished it. We were a dysfunctional mess.
Knowing his character, and some of the things he did to other people as a younger man, I now understand that unlike myself, he actually showed a modicum of self-control. I am lucky he didn't kill me. The man is either a psychopath or a narcissist with ASPD. There are certain things he *cannot* understand. I accept his limitations, just as I accept my own.
It is on the basis of these limitations, and how far he has come, that I must evaluate him- not according to the societal ideal of what it means to be a "good father"- which he most definitely was not. My father and I get along very well now. In some ways, he understands me like no one else. He will never be a father-figure I can look to for wisdom or support, but he accepts me unconditionally and loves me in the way he knows how. He has no emotional memory, and neither do I. (I don't relive emotions when I remember events- with the notable exception of lust- ha!) I consider that a blessing.
Holding a grudge against my father would have only robbed me of peace, and *any* kind of relationship with him. He has good traits in addition to all of his bad ones. I accept him for who he is, unconditionally. I credit my father for helping me to cultivate that ability.
@A: I can relate to several items here - the details are different (sounds rougher for you).
Delete"Holding a grudge against my father would have only robbed me of peace, and *any* kind of relationship with him."
My step father used to have another perspective on it: the person you are holding a grudge against is effectively choosing for you how you should feel. His phrase was, "they are using your mind rent free."
"They say no child "asks for it"- but if anyone could, I did." Yup - me too. I was nine or ten when my mother threatened to whoop me. I laughed and told her, "I doubt THAT!" To say she made her point would be a fair statement. Dad, on the other hand, hit a lot harder than mom, so I was less brazen about provoking his wrath (and he used whatever was at hand - often the handle of a fly swatter. Thankfully he was out of the house before I hit puberty - that would not have gone well for anyone.
Stepping back and understanding the damaged people my parents were and how they got that way (born into pre-WWII Eastern Europe and downhill from there) has been very helpful - not easy, but helpful.
Great post. The lust for revenge only serves to bind us to the object of our hatred. The only way to freedom is to let go. Seeing the ties that bind in a different light, from the perspective of wounds inflicted and suffered, from our lone struggle as flawed beings, can bring a kind of shared peace.
DeleteA,
Delete"Until my mid-twenties, I did harbour resentment towards the man- but never to the point of hatred or outright rejection. It would seem that I am incapable of holding grudges-"
I currently understand the "origin" and details of all of the points your have made, not just the above but throughout your comment. Hatred and animosity against others can only bring and foster destruction. There are people that do so, but, ultimately, it is just a war, or a losing battle, against themselves. Likewise, I don't hold grudges, especially when knowing/being aware and comprehending the "source" and extent of the suffering endured by another (as I presently understand yours). You sound as though you have really grown as a result of it, and having developed a deeper understanding of it, you are now able to comprehend and analyze yourself from a different angle. There are circumstances where good things actually come out of horrible or extremely difficult life situations, as denoted by the thinking and detailed points in your comment.
"...and sporadically beat the crap out of me when he lost his temper."
Your strength has helped you with overcoming these rough "roads." No one should have to experience such terrible things.
"I accept him for who he is, unconditionally. I credit my father for helping me to cultivate that ability."
Having come to this great realization, this is truly the best thing that you can do.
HLHaller,
Delete"...the person you are holding a grudge against is effectively choosing for you how you should feel. His phrase was, "they are using your mind rent free."
As I essentially wrote above (10:27 AM), I agree with this thinking. Tantamount to hate or hating others, holding grudges is self-destructive. Choosing the road to inner peace is always wiser.
"No one should have to endure such terrible things"
DeleteWhile this may be true, what I endured as a child is *nothing* compared to what some kids in war-torn dictatorships experience on a daily basis. I was spoiled in many ways, and grew up a self-entitled little pissant. I don't know the meaning of true suffering or hardship. Very few people in the West actually do.
We whine, and find things to complain about amidst our great abundance. We simper like disobedient, petulant children when we don't get exactly what we want. We have become weak and soft in our apathy- overfed, and unconcerned.
The endurance of hardship can make or break a person. One can choose to be a victim, or a victor. The choice between self-loathing and self-respect is always ours.
A,
DeleteSpeaking of "dictatorships," and even though this is not my poem, I am sending this out to all those who were maltreated or abused (during childhood or adolescence) by their fathers. Some people will relate in one way or another.
Looking deeper, it is a dark poem, but it feels real, since it is based on the author's life-story. Aside from that, I studied most of Sylvia Plath's work, and this particular poem fits in with the well-constructed topic created by M.E., as well as with the main ideas that we discussed in our comments. None of the "factual" details in the poem about social, race, cultural or economic status apply to me in particular, and I don't mean to imply that they apply to others (they did apply to Sylvia Plath, though). Again, I am only pointing out the overall ideas that have been discussed so far, and the author has a great, all-encompassing point.
Daddy
"You do not do, you do not do
Any more, black shoe
In which I have lived like a foot
For thirty years, poor and white,
Barely daring to breathe or Achoo.
Daddy, I have had to kill you.
You died before I had time——
Marble-heavy, a bag full of God,
Ghastly statue with one gray toe
Big as a Frisco seal
And a head in the freakish Atlantic
Where it pours bean green over blue
In the waters off beautiful Nauset.
I used to pray to recover you.
Ach, du.
In the German tongue, in the Polish town
Scraped flat by the roller
Of wars, wars, wars.
But the name of the town is common.
My Polack friend
Says there are a dozen or two.
So I never could tell where you
Put your foot, your root,
I never could talk to you.
The tongue stuck in my jaw.
It stuck in a barb wire snare.
Ich, ich, ich, ich,
I could hardly speak.
I thought every German was you.
And the language obscene
An engine, an engine
Chuffing me off like a Jew.
A Jew to Dachau, Auschwitz, Belsen.
I began to talk like a Jew.
I think I may well be a Jew.
The snows of the Tyrol, the clear beer of Vienna
Are not very pure or true.
With my gipsy ancestress and my weird luck
And my Taroc pack and my Taroc pack
I may be a bit of a Jew.
I have always been scared of you,
With your Luftwaffe, your gobbledygoo.
And your neat mustache
And your Aryan eye, bright blue.
Panzer-man, panzer-man, O You——
Not God but a swastika
So black no sky could squeak through.
Every woman adores a Fascist,
The boot in the face, the brute
Brute heart of a brute like you.
You stand at the blackboard, daddy,
In the picture I have of you,
A cleft in your chin instead of your foot
But no less a devil for that, no not
Any less the black man who
Bit my pretty red heart in two.
I was ten when they buried you.
At twenty I tried to die
And get back, back, back to you.
I thought even the bones would do.
But they pulled me out of the sack,
And they stuck me together with glue.
And then I knew what to do.
I made a model of you,
A man in black with a Meinkampf look
And a love of the rack and the screw.
And I said I do, I do.
So daddy, I’m finally through.
The black telephone’s off at the root,
The voices just can’t worm through.
If I’ve killed one man, I’ve killed two——
The vampire who said he was you
And drank my blood for a year,
Seven years, if you want to know.
Daddy, you can lie back now.
There’s a stake in your fat black heart
And the villagers never liked you.
They are dancing and stamping on you.
They always knew it was you.
Daddy, daddy, you bastard, I’m through."
A, Eastern, war-torn dictatorships can be quite complicated to discuss, and experience has provided me with some insight on the matter. What’s more, it has provided me with life-changing perspectives that clearly branch out in various directions.
Delete“The endurance of hardship can make or break a person. One can choose to be a victim, or a victor. The choice between self-loathing and self-respect is always ours.”
Naturally, endurance per se can build or break a person, but I look toward the constructive side as opposed to the broken side of the complex equation. Choosing to be a victor should stem from inner strength and the ability to foster growth in places where it’s most needed.
Above all, self-respect is always the answer that I uphold.
I think the best thing my father ever taught me, although he didn't intend to and was already dead, was to switch off my empathy when it becomes apparent that I need to do so.
ReplyDeleteIronically it has helped me to do the one thing he always discouraged - be myself.
I'll have to give Unbroken a go: it sounds interesting. Need more book space. Time to move again.
SansDire, "Unbroken" is a great novel. The book shows something that all of us can find within ourselves: that we, too, are unbreakable. When experiencing extreme hardship or terrible life situations, we can discover such courage and resilience within ourselves, and, consequently, survive the unimaginable.
DeleteNo matter what happens, being yourself is the only way to be. In my opinion, this is how we truly survive.
I like my empathy switch. I wouldn't change that about myself- even if I could. My biggest problem is that sometimes it gets stuck in "off" mode. When I do manage to turn it on, it shines dimmer than most- and often, it is as though it is governed by an automatic timer, that never quite lasts long enough for me to make out all the details, or read the complete story. Energy conservation. Lol.
DeleteI think that no matter who or what we are, everyone has an empathy switch. I strongly believe that experience, along with a deep-seated sense of maturity, governs it depending on a given situation. If viewed introspectively, it is the very nature of the automatic timer that either acts inherently or becomes “created,” so to speak, when facing certain life experiences that actually beckon it back to the surface.
DeleteYour point about energy conservation makes sense, though. In complex situations, it surely takes a great deal of energy to comprehend the whole story and see all of its facets.
It is possible that this "switch" is governed by maturity or circumstantial necessity- particularly in those of us with more rational mindsets. But then I witness the folks who cannot view a picture of an emaciated dog without the waterworks starting, while I can watch someone get beheaded... And feel nothing. :P
DeleteI'd like to think it would be a different matter if it happened before my eyes. It would *certainly* be another matter if it happened to one of my own. (I would likely fly into an uncontrollable rage.)
Affective empathy is a strange thing, and I don't fully understand how it works in people like me. I watched my husband smash his fingers with a sledgehammer, and was able to react quickly and rationally. In truth, I felt nothing- but I understood that his life was not at stake. By contrast, I once decked him, and thought I had seriously damaged his vision. At that point, I kind of freaked. My empathy kicked in, and I felt remorseful. But it didn't last long, and it was laced with annoyance. I know what that makes me sound like, but I would rather be truthful about my emotional experiences here.
The fact is, some of us are more sensitive than others.
Wanna play?
DeleteMy switch defaults to "on" in everyday life. Everyone starts off equal with me and we go from there. I switch off empathy selectively - towards certain people (said Daddikins included, post-mortem; ex-best friend, ante-mortem) rather than in general; I don't know if I could then switch it back "on" towards those people as I've never tried.
DeleteI can switch off my emotions towards a situation, which is a more generalized setting and temporary. Except anger: I can't switch that off mid-flow. So I haven't lost my temper since I was 22 (a good indicator of how remorseful I felt afterwards). I'll get frustrated and rant my head off sometimes, but I won't let it go over that line (control freak) unless it's truly life or death for someone.
A,
If we can't be truthful about our emotional experiences (or lack thereof) here, where can we? :) When I say things like this to "Empaths" (in quotation marks for the reason that follows), in the majority of cases I find them less than truly empathic: they seem disturbed by the idea and react negatively to differences. Faulty interpretation caused by lack of ability/will to "walk in my shoes"? And yes, a part of me wonders if it is a form of fear (at the difference) or a dislike of the fact that the realization means whatever minor manipulations they indulge in must now be discarded.
Anonymous at 2:08PM,
I agree. I would guess it is partly neuro-somatic development and partly 'will' (or, to put it another way, 'attention') based. When I am concentrated on another task, I will sometimes make a comment so bluntly truthful I get the shocked look. Because my attention is on the task and not the conversation - had I been concentrating on the conversation, my filter might have cut in. I would also guess that if I chose to switch off my empathy in a more universal way I might, after a considerable elapse of time, get a very rusty switch and find it hard to deviate from that new default setting.
Bugger me, that felt like a long post.
SansDire,
DeleteI am in favor of your educated guess, entailing both neuro-somatic development and “will.” I view and identify “will” as “creation,” since this is what some of us do in certain situations (I also dislike hysterics and I have my own way of dealing with such occurrences). The innate tendency overtakes “creation” in other situations that call for it, but I find it to be rather random and not easy to pinpoint in advance. Being on this site (corresponding) has made me think of topics such as this, and, truthfully, I did not do so before finding it. It is only when these subjects are viewed under a magnifying lens that essential development is clearly revealed.
“When I am concentrated on another task, I will sometimes make a comment so bluntly truthful I get the shocked look.”
Yes, I can relate to this, since I experience it quite frequently. It seems to be part of my nature, and there are some people, such as family members, who have become used to it or even expect it from me in certain instances. I have a filter as well, but, truth be told, I don’t use it all of the time. In my mind, using my filter is an unequivocal, personal choice, or just doing away with choosing when some things MUST be said in order to communicate and further conclude a point. Naturally, some people like this about me while others do not, but I like being myself.
You have mentioned the plausibility of a rusty switch. In essence, if you were to become aware of it, how would you deviate from that default setting?
Hey Anonymous.
DeleteHonestly, I'm not sure I could. I would have to be willing as well as aware, but taking that as a given...
This would be another guess, but I suspect memory might play a large part. Under that scenario, the fact that such neural pathways once existed in my brain might enable me (with some very conscious 'practice') to switch the empathy back on.
If those neuro-somatic pathways had never formed (or formed 'a-typically') to begin with, however, I suspect the process might be much more difficult. No neural blueprint. No frame of reference (although, strictly speaking, since reality cannot be proved we're all making assumptions about referential values anyway). Perhaps if/when neuro-scientists have mapped out that developmental process thoroughly, a rough blueprint could be made for those who wish to acquire it.
Elisabeth Batory, the infamous Hungarian aristocrat, killed over 600 people. Joseph Stalin, killed about 40 million people...list can go on. What should we feel towards these people? Perhaps hate is not a best emotion to feel for the people on the receiving end of the injustice because it can drag the victims further down. So in that local sense it serves no benefits. But to let go and develop a neutral stance to what psychopath is doing is to self eliminate! So in that general evolutionary sense, it might spell survival. Psychopath can't be any other way than he or she is. He will keep on eating you till the end of times if you have something that he wants. But emotions are information about how we are doing in this world. I think hate is a response to extreme perception of injustice. Its probably a last resort emotion that directs intense focus on the our perpetrators. Humans that ignored their predators are ancestors to nobody. Btw. Psychopath hates too. But there need not be real threat to his existence to bring on his wrath (hate) however. You merely have to cross him.
ReplyDeleteNot all psychopaths are crazed mass-murderers, and not all mass-murderers are psychopaths. You are defining psychopathy according to your personal prejudices and biases- which appear to be related to how atrocious you consider a person's behavior, as opposed to a scientific understanding of the condition itself. In your mind, a psychopath is interchangeable with someone who has committed acts of atrocity- but you negate that other disordered people are capable of acts of injustice and heinous violence, too.
DeleteFor example, Elizabeth Bathory was envious and pathologically insecure- traits more often correlated with NPD than psychopathy. She was also delusional, and, some might argue, psychotic. These traits are not associated with Cluster-B personality disorders at all.
The aggressive, fearless nature and lack of empathy which characterize sociopaths can be put to good use in the boardroom and the courtroom- (not to mention the bedroom. ;)
Would you want a hesitant, waffling, albeit empathetic surgeon to remove your cancerous tumor- or would you prefer one who operates with confidence and nerves of steel- even at the expense of a good bedside manner?
Is everyone cut out to be a warrior, or a preschool teacher?
People have natural strengths and weaknesses. If these can be readily identified and properly channeled at a young age, they can be maximized.
I kept out of trouble for a time as a pre-teen by engaging in an extreme competitive sport. If I had persevered, my propensity for thrill-seeking might have led me to great accomplishments, as opposed to detrimental, dangerous activities.
Its a good question whether world would be better off with or without a psychopath. I suppose figuring what we mean by genius or creativity might point to a solution.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes! Not all psychopaths are mass murderers nor all murderers are psychopaths. Some are just charmers or hapless romantics! I suspect Russel Brand is a psychopath, and Chelsea Handler might be another. Hitler most likely was not, albeit a great tool at the psychopath hands.
And whom would I want to operate on that nasty tumor eating me whole. Hmmmm Empath! I want an empath. Being hesitant or waffling defines empath no better then mass murder defines a psychopath.
"Being hesitant or waffling defines empath no better then mass murder defines a psychopath."
Delete^That's a valid point. I should have more clearly elucidated mine.
I doubt that many highly sensitive, empathetic people become surgeons in the first place. It takes a certain character to slice a scalpel through someone's flesh and carve up their innards- which isn't to say that such a person must be a psychopath. However, I would imagine that more people on the callous end of the personality spectrum are better able to handle the pressures and stresses related to becoming a surgeon and practicing this branch of medicine. It is not without reason that such doctors are notoriously lacking in their bedside manner.
I would rather be under the knife of a detached, skilled, arrogant, perfectionist surgeon who narcissistically sets unrealistically high standards for himself and others, than under the care of someone whose empathetic bedside manner belies an emotional volatility which could affect the caliber and quality of his work, on any given day, in accordance with personal affective challenges.
I can't argue about your beliefs. Thats a religion.
DeleteBut imagine for an instance a psychopath surgeon. She is detached from the bloody mess for sure, but what makes you think she will care about the excellence of her product. She might for instance get very curious when....use your imagination. She happens to be the head of the clinic too, and there are coincidently many deaths at that clinic. You see where I am going.
But I find your definition of an empath challenging to understand. What I mean by an empath is simply someone who would refrain from causing harm just to gain something. Psychopath will stop at nothing if she can get away with it. You like sports. And you probably would be a star athlete if you persisted. I'd most likely enjoy watching you shine and win. But imagine, there are others who are just as persistent as you are and would stop at nothing in order to make profit on wars, sell weapons, or twist worlds markets where most are out of luck. This is the world we live in. But unlike in human history, weapons are more lethal then ever. Nero enjoyed burning Rome because it appealed to his sense of aesthetics. Thats all it can take to create mushroom clouds tenderly enveloping tiny creatures jumping about in their utter frenzy wanting to live. All for the sake of Art! For the sake of art they were turned into ash.
Off topic though.
I'd rather have a low-empath or zero-empath surgeon. But even a fully-empathic surgeon would need to switch off their empathy during invasive procedures. Otherwise that empathy would cause the enormity of possible negative outcomes to overwhelm their technical ability.
DeleteEmpath response to accidental slicing of an artery: "Oh my god, oh my god - I might have killed them or at least impaired their daily life!"
Zero-empath response: "Crap. Kelly clamp."
I think that there is much confusion on this cite what actually is an empath. Its a very simple system really. The essential rule driving it is something like do no harm even if it brings great fame or profit. Guilt will bloc wishing to/engaging in harm. Thats all it is to an empath. The hysterics so often described here have nothing to do with empathy nor capacity for surgery.
DeleteI find socios perception of an empath rather comedic actually. I suppose empaths engage in like comedy when they think of socios as mass murderers.
Well, I'm not a socio. I can walk in other people's shoes and have an overactive guilt gland. Does that make me an empath? I'm also perfectly capable of killing someone if they threaten my family or even, possibly, a stranger (or if I were ever to lose my temper again and able to reach the person at whom I lost it - which is why I don't let myself get angry). Am I still an empath? After all, the fact is that I don't want to kill someone unless I have to. Doesn't change the fact that I might, if certain circumstances arose. Greater harm, or lesser harm - where do we draw that line? Long-term harm or short-term harm - they can be contradictory? (Answer to question of whether I'm an empath or not: I'm me. It pretty much ends there.)
DeleteSo, a hypothesis.
Say Anonymous at 1:06AM and I are beyond medical help and Anonymous starts choking. We'll assume that Anonymous and I have no prior acquaintance so there are no personal factors in play. After several attempts at the Heimlich method of dislodging the blockage, Anonymous is still unable to breathe. Emergency tracheotomy time and I'm not a surgeon (even if I were, we're not in a clinical environment, which carries its own risks). Will I panic? Yes, for at least a couple of seconds I will have that empath response I gave above only in future tense, because I know this is a risky procedure at the best of times. How will I deal with this panic? Based upon other experiences, it will go like this:
Anonymous going cyanotic = tracheotomy
(Anonymous now ceases to be a person and becomes a throat - empathy switched off because guilt will cause hesitation on my part. Unempathic me knows Anonymous is possibly dead if I do, but definitely dead if I don't, so harm is quite frankly moot.)
Throat has component parts: incision must be below larynx and blockage (everything else is a guess because veins and arteries are flexible and I've only a rough idea of where they are). Cutting tool. Here. Go.
Throat is clear? Breathing now? (No=crap, Yes=good)
(Throat may now become a person again and, depending on the success or failure of my amateur surgery, I will deal with the consequences of it.) Dead: I will feel guilt - I should've done better. Alive: I will be thinking how quickest to get to a medic. While performing that operation, however, there was no guilt and no future: there was a throat. A piece of machinery.
It's about timing, I think. Processing time. Brains are remarkable things but the sodium transport system still has to conduct electricity along axons and neuro-chemical transfer has to bridge dendrite to dendrite gaps. The less processing going on, the speedier a result.
@Anon 9:53pm "but what makes you think she will care about the excellence of her product."
DeleteI'd say it depends on the goal the psychopath wants to achieve. If the goal is to repair the biological machine, aka patient, then they would make sure to do it as excellent as possible - though not because they care about the patient.
@1:06am: "I think that there is much confusion on this cite what actually is an empath.(...)"
Empath means: Feels empathy/has affective empathy. Simple as that.
There are enough empaths who do harm for harms sake - and even more who are willing to hurt others as long as what they gain is good enough to make them not think about the guilt beforehand.
As for the empathic versus unempathic surgeon, I'd go for a well trained empath, who's able to work concentrated - if they mess it up I can at least make them suffer with me.
@SansDire: "Does that make me an empath?"
You sound like an empath. Your examples in that post underline that assumption, at least that's how I see it. What makes you think empaths are all good sheep? (Or did I get that wrong?)
"or if I were ever to lose my temper again and able to reach the person at whom I lost it"
If I lose my temper I react pretty much the same to everyone who gets in my way, no matter who caused that outburst.
To the hypothesis: You'd probably make a good surgeon.
Out of interest, what is your (as in: personal) definition of feeling guilt?
@Nihilistic Mind 7:05
DeleteYou are right about neurotypicals doing much harm. See my comment at 4:28. I am uncertain though if neurotypicals (given "humane" environment during formative years) as adults would engage in doing harm for harm's sake. That would be transition point between psychpath vs. not. Don't you think?
Hey Nihilistic Mind.
DeleteOh no, I definitely don't think empaths are all good sheep. It's why I'm not generally in favour of labels :) "The proof of the pudding is in the eating" kind of thing. I've eaten enough meals to decide it's mostly relative.
"If I lose my temper I react pretty much the same to everyone who gets in my way, no matter who caused that outburst." Mmmm, yes. I suspect that could be me too, but I've no concrete proof of it; I do have evidence of what happens when I lose my temper and can reach the person who triggered my anger. Not wanting to find out for sure if the other is true is part of why I aim not to get angry again ;)
LOL thanks for the compliment but my hands shake when I get an adrenaline rush.
Personal definition of guilt. Oooh a good one :D I like toughies. Might have to think about it in order to express clearly, but I'll give it an off-the-cuff lash.
My personal definition of guilt as I experience it is failing to live up to those responsibilities I have taken upon myself to fulfill, where the means to fulfill them lies entirely within my own control.
NB - I would like to hear your personal definition of what you perceive guilt to be. Or how you perceive it to be in others, if you'd prefer.
Delete(I've now got Hannibal Lecter in my head, saying "Quid Pro Quo, Clarice." Better than Mr Gumby, I suppose.)
@Anon, I've read all comments. And no, I don't think so. Was interesting to think about it though.
DeleteI remember a neighbor's boy from my childhood, with intact affective empathy, who I witnessed torturing his little sister. He beat her, slapped her face and laughed at her crying. There was no apparent reason to it, other than to do harm. Otherwise, he behaved pretty normal, like getting sad when looking at a bunch of sad people. He definitely felt guilt when his parents confronted him, or at least his face showed the proper expression. (Back then I thought it was an awful exaggeration.)
I think it's an innate part of human nature to harm and destroy, the less you think about it the more you do it. That's why you won't find many intelligent brutes.
SansDire, everything is relative :)
I perceive guilt rather as an action outside or in conflict with the rules of a system, like whistling on the streets, or smashing a street lamp, or hitting your younger brother somewhere others might see, or throwing waste beside a bin. Things that ought not to be done because they aren't done that way in that place.
Of course, there's always the law I try to keep in mind too, but that's a weird thing, really. Pretty much everyone I know has broken the law, or regularly does so. My parents often times try to change my law abiding opinions, like I shouldn't be so cautious or something. If they knew. (Though they probably really don't realize that for me there's no difference between stealing a chewing gum and beating someone up. Not that I do either of those actions. Not anymore.)
I personally don't care much about the law, but it's a useful structure that might save my ass sometime, so I don't like to see people acting against it if they could be traced to me somehow.
Quid Pro Quo goes against my adaption of the conservation of energy principle. I'd risk losing needed energy if I'd return each and every favor and would likely lose money too. :p
Though I often do stuff solely because I get asked to when there's nothing else for me to do.
@Nihilistic Mind
DeleteKids are notoriously mean. Sometimes emotional development of a psychopath is compared to that of a child actually. My point still holds.
You bring interesting thought here: "I think it's an innate part of human nature to harm and destroy, the less you think about it the more you do it. That's why you won't find many intelligent brutes."
Human nature may not be one thing. I think there might be two natures actually; one defined as neurotypical system, and the other as what we roughly mean a psychopath. The first one builds social architecture the latter deconstruts. History points to this dynamics right before our eyes.
History is also replete with brilliant brutes. Brilliant mind and having conscience come apart. Two separate systems.
Nihilistic Mind
Delete"Of course, there's always the law I try to keep in mind too, but that's a weird thing, really. Pretty much everyone I know has broken the law, or regularly does so."
Yes, agreed. And agreed that everything is relative. That's why my ethics are only mine. After all, I'm the one who has to live inside my brain: what works for one person won't necessarily work for another. Fortunately, my personal ethics rarely clash with the current law of the land in which my body resides.
:D @ the Quid Pro Quo paragraph. Well then, it adds rarity value. But thanks for taking the time to respond. Whether or not my appreciation means anything to you, it is still appreciated. Time is money, they say.
@Anon, "My point still holds."
DeleteWe might be talking about different points then.
Look:
"The essential rule driving it is something like do no harm even if it brings great fame or profit. Guilt will bloc wishing to/engaging in harm."
This part of your comment I cited above in an admittedly lazy fashion is what I was getting at. But maybe you want to incorporate the concept of selective empathy into your conclusions.... Empaths do it all the time. If something's not in their focus, they don't necessarily register the part that would trigger guilt. (There are over-sensitive empaths too, those who'll cry when they hear about starving kids in a country they've no relation to. Different end of the spectrum.)
"Human nature may not be one thing. I think there might be two natures actually; one defined as neurotypical system, and the other as what we roughly mean a psychopath."
I should have clarified. With 'Human Nature' I mean the whole set of varying degrees of all possible kinds of behavior. The innate features are the ones I don't see missing under the assumption this person is able to live. Like housekeeping genes.
According to my definition, psychopaths and neurotypicals lack different parts of human nature, but share (at least) the innate parts. Otherwise the semantics would be oddly indicating on or the other group can't be human.
I guess you're probably just using different words for the same I've just written.
"The first one builds social architecture the latter deconstruts."
This is where I've got to disagree strongly. You know, the facts I have gathered about psychopathy indicate I fit the spectrum more than would be advantageous for me in my situation. So, if your above statement was to be true, I'd be deconstructing social structures all the time - which I don't. Actually, I've helped building teams over and over, I've got a knack for making systems work even better. I construct. Given they let me. If not, of course, then deconstruction is often the favored alternative.
Anyways, psychopaths don't primarily care about constructing/deconstructing social arrangements, so drawing the border here seems totally out of place to me.
Don't bug me with history though. (Except if you're willing to put the essential information in very short sentences - otherwise my attention won't let me listen.)
SansDire, "Fortunately, my personal ethics rarely clash with the current law of the land in which my body resides."
You're lucky. I've got some hobbies which need me to ignore the law. ;p
"Whether or not my appreciation means anything to you, it is still appreciated."
I can't say it means a lot to me - that'd be a lie - but it definitely makes my day happier.
I am assuming you wanted case studies of creative psychopaths. Here are few that may qualify as psychopatic. Richard Wagner, Marquis de Sade comes to mind. I strongly suspect Marcel Duchamp might have been one, am thinking Damian Hirst is most likely a psychopath too. I mentioned earlier Russel Brand and Chasely Handler. Both creative in their unique sense but not especially brilliant.
DeletePsychopaths not always deconstruct. I'd recommend thinking of deconstructing more abstractly. Before the dada movement we had a notion of what art was. The art concept stood intact. Comes Duchamp and we ask if art is dead or what is it. Subversion might be another fitting stand in for deconstructing. Think Trotsky and communist revolution.
Anon, "I am assuming you wanted case studies of creative psychopaths."
DeleteCase studies are good. I'll need to look them up somewhen. Maybe on the weekend.
Richard Wagner? I've had a music teacher who seemed to be the "hardcore groupie fan" type of his music... She insisted he was sane, a bit BPD at most. I'll see what google will tell me.
I've heard Marquis de Sade now quite some times in relation to sociopathy/psychopathy. Who was that? A writer?
I've read a bit on wikipedia about Duchamp, his biography doesn't sound like he's a psychopath. I'll have to dig deeper though.
Subversion sounds less... destructive. Well yes, the way you put it makes it sound entirely different from what I had in mind. I'll have to think it through though, when I'm not as tired.
I thank for the nice conversation, good night for today. It's almost midnight over here...
@Nihilistic Mind
DeleteAnd one more. I quote you: " With 'Human Nature' I mean the whole set of varying degrees of all possible kinds of behavior. The innate features are the ones I don't see missing under the assumption this person is able to live. Like housekeeping genes."
I am assuming you mean here human nature component that is rooted in genes and the social construction part. Correct me if I misunderstood. So may take on this human nature thing (and I divide it like you I guess) that there is a break in structure (e.g., most likely due to genes) which then impacts function (behavior) in some specific ways. Two separate systems with more behavioral overlap then most are willing to admit to, but one very important difference. Neurotipical system is constrained by rule avoid harm even if it brings profit or fame (roughly speaking). Guilt is the blocking mechanism, and I think fundamental moral emotion. Not many will agree with any of this. I realize.
Yes, de Sade was a writer who influenced scores of others both neuortypicals and psychopaths alike (examples: Swondburne, Baudelaire, Verlaine, Flaubert etc.). I can recommend good readings if you are interested in any of this. I generally treat other sources as hints. In the end, we must come to our own conclusions. I'll end with Plato's "Know thy self." Self awareness might be a key to understanding any system.
DeleteGood night Nihilistic Mind. Thanks for the thoughtful replies. Sweet dreams tonight.
"I've heard Marquis De Sade quite some times in relation to sociopathy/psychopathy. Who was that? A writer?"
DeleteDe Sade was a writer who indeed influenced scores of readers... To masturbate vigorously to things certain people might consider "shameful".
Some of his writing is gross. Some of it is hot. It all depends on your perspective.
There's no perspective that makes other people shit look hot.
DeleteYeah. I'm with you there. The gross factor ruins it for me too. It's too bad, because when he isn't spouting off about religion, late18th century politics, or eating other people's shit, he has his moments. They're just too far and few in between to bother seeking out. I'll stick to the Nifty archives, or Litrotica. :D
DeleteThat said, there's just no accounting for some people's shitty taste xD
DeleteThe only thing good enough for any of you is to burn in hell forever.
ReplyDeleteFor any and all of us?
DeleteEt tu, Brute?
“If I thought that I was replying to someone who would ever return to the world, this flame would cease its flickering. But since no one has returned from these depths alive, if what I've heard is true, I will answer you [Radical Agnostic] without fear of infamy.”
“A rapid bolt will rend the clouds apart,
and every single White be seared by wounds.
I tell you this:
“Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate.”
It's a good thing hell is imaginary. The religious people who invented the idea of Hell . . .
ReplyDeleteIs it imaginary?
Delete"I tell you this. I want it all to hurt."
“The broken branch hissed loudly, and then that
wind was converted into these words: 'Briefly will
you be answered.'
When the fierce soul departs from the body from
which it has uprooted itself, Minos sends it to the
seventh mouth.
It falls into the wood, and no place is assigned to
it, but where chance hurls it, there it sprouts like a
grain of spelt.
It grows into a shoot, then a woody plant; the
Harpies, feeding on its leaves, give it pain and a
window for the pain.
Like the others, we will come for our remains, but
not so that any may put them on again, for it is not
just to have what one has taken from oneself.
Here we will drag them, and through the sad
wood our corpses will hang, each on the thornbrush
of the soul that harmed it.”
"Justice moved my architect supernal."
Letting go of anger is essential. The person who angers you controls you.
ReplyDeleteThe next step is to learn how those people who angered you can be useful to you and to people around you. Learning to channel their explosive energy is difficult but sometimes possible.
Then teaching them to channel their own energy in a non destructive way so that they can become successful... without expecting them to be thankful in any way.
Ah, but if you came that far in understanding them, you have probably become selfish along the way.
Letting go anger, all right, but how ?
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you. But there is just a little warning I wanted to add about this language of "let go anger". I've been searching for years and years and believe me, you don't find good informations so easily in this world, about anger, unless you have the chance to have a very conscious and wise person in your surrounding, which is quite rare, especially when you're "broken". You are more often exposed to the vicious circle of damages. So just a warning about saying to the others what they "should" do without being fully conscious of the tremendous difficulty it is for them to do it, as if it was obvious to know how to do that, and without telling them how exactly you can do that, "letting it go", because it can make them feel guilty not to be able to "let go" in stead of helping them. So... Another time, maybe, I'll try to talk about anger. What I've been learning about anger. Very interesting subject. Anger.
"Letting go anger, all right, but how ?"
DeleteIf it was easy, we wouldn't be talking about it. ;)~
One tool I use is borrowed from Failure/Root Cause Analysis: 5 Why. The idea is you ask the question "why?" five times (doesn't have to be five - more or less depending on the problem).
So, to illustrate:
Q: Why am I'm ready to start whittling on this persons face? A: Because I am angry.
Q: Why am I angry? A: Because they aren't doing what I want them to.
Q: Why does that make me angry? (here's where people mess up - keep it about you; it's tempting to ask, "why won't they do what I want them to?") A: Because I need to be in control of this situation.
Q: Why do I need to be in control of this situation? A: Because I feel anxious when I'm not in control.
...it doesn't take long to see that the other person actually has little to do with how you feel. You have a lot to do with how you feel. It's about how you interact with the world.
It's not a perfect tool, but it ahs been a helpful way for me to get focused in some circumstances.
Thanks HLHaller,
DeleteThe tool you're talking about is quite close to what I'm learning with Non-Violent Communication which is for me the most interesting information I've found so far.
The thing is, generally, we have been used to associate the way we feel to what the other persons do. Most of us have been living all our lives in that belief, and it seems of us completely normal to see things that way. So in our interactions, we are used to blame them for the things they do when something goes wrong - or to compliment them, which is the similar judgmental process used when things go well). We've been educated in the belief that people should be this way or that way, that this is right and this is wrong, instead of feeling responsible for the way we feel and to be conscious that it's our thoughts that generate our feelings. But that prevents us to feel responsible for the way we feel and to free ourselves. Judging the other persons actions makes us depend on them contrarily to what we believe.
In non-violent communication, when you get angry, the best way is to take it as a warning that a need of yours is not getting met (the need for respect, care, attention, safety, etc.). For example, someone does something you don't like, and you feel angry. You can react to that anger in different ways :
1 - You think this person is an asshole, you begin to analyze what his mental problem is (sociopath, narcissist, idiot, insane, or any other thing), you think how wrong is what they have done, and you want to tell them why it is so wrong. Then you react by blaming them and telling all the things you think about them.
2 - You connect with how you feel. You realize you're very angry. You ask yourself what is the need of yours that has not been met when he has done that. You connect with that need (for instance, I need respect, I need empathy, I need care, or safety), and once you manage to feel connected to this in yourself, generally, you stop feeling angry and begin to feel other feelings, like sadness, pain, loneliness, sometimes you begin to cry. But you think very differently now like, I need to be treated with respect, or I need to feel safe when I interact with you, etc. So you will talk to the other person a different way when you think this way, you'll tell him how much you need this or that and why it is so important for you.
And the thing is that, you have the choice, but if you talk to someone the first way, you will probably have much less chances to get your needs met than if you communicate from the second perspective, where you'll have much more chances to be heard and get what you need.
I'm just trying to explain what I've learnt but Marshall Rosenberg, the creator of non-violent communication does it a much better way than I do.
To be continued...
Yeah, I'm quite familiar with NVC - it's a favorite tool of Ma's for taking control of a conversation that is uncomfortable for her. Makes my teeth itch now as result - I have to work extra hard to suppress destructive urges when I bump into it now.
DeleteBut, that's really my own baggage - there are a number of things to recommend it. But for me it's always looked like people who are latch onto it do so like a religion -
I had to learn to examine myself as a means of getting my impulses under control. In doing so, I came to realize that in most unpleasant situations, I had something (if not a lot) to do with how I got there. Understanding my part has proven to be very helpful in being a less destructive person.
It's analogous to a recovering alcoholic avoiding bars - I am learning to avoid situations that lead to pretty consistently bad outcomes for me. I'm not great at it - but I'm better than I was.
This is my Assholes Anonymous meeting after all...
Oh God ! This is terrible. I've just been erasing the message I had written !!! Too bad too bad. A long message...
DeleteOk, I have to go, but one thing, seriously, the Assholes Anonymous, I take that with me tonight bro'... Ha ha ha ha ha!
Hey everyone, I'm new here and not very internet savvy, how the heck do I make my own post on this site for people to be able to comment on?
ReplyDeleteYou're a quick study Sparky!
DeleteA quick study? Anyways, could we instead of mock me, simply inform me on how to make a post to the main page? I have a proposed research project of my own that Im trying to reach out to others with, it'd be super helpful to just figure this stupid blogger site out.
DeleteAnon, you could write a mail to M.E., this blog belongs to her. You can't just write a blog post on someone else's blog.
DeleteThough, you could make your own blog, but I doubt that's what you want to do.
May I ask what the project is about? (Beside the obvious)
@Harry, I thought the same xD
How's life goin'?
Wow. Defensive much? Nobody was mocking you- but now might be a good time to start, considering how that comment flew right over your head.
DeleteYou just made a post to the main page, bright ass. It won't get featured more prominently than this, so stop complaining, and just post your shit, already. :p
Ha dont I feel silly. Is she posting peoples letters or whatever to her on the main page then? I thought those were from random people posting it themselves or something. And this is an even poorer question, how do I write to her? I went to the contact section and was even more confused that it said something like write to @sociopathworld or something like that. Like thats not a full email. So is this site more set up like twitter would be with that @ crap, cause I barely understand all that. XD
DeleteThe projects about a missing link that I havent seen anyone, nor the DSM talk about or pin on the anti social spectrum still, its a disorder in the DSM, but it stands on its own, and should and needs to be placed on this spectrum. Multiple people in my family have it and Ive ran into a few others with it and Ive also dated a true psychopath, and been very close to multiple sociopaths. I feel like a magnet ha. Im more of an empath but I see myself, as I started calling it more of an alpha empath. Like I can be an aggressor but in the way of the alpha of a pack of herd animals would be. But I definitly get along with and immensly enjoy predatory people more then prey. Theres no sport in talking to prey, usually a great lack of intelligent conversation, and they dont even notice when a predator is staring them right in the face when Im hyper vigulant of it. I used to attack back, lately Ive stopped and denied my own instincts to "protect the herd" and befriended a lot of predatory minded people to see if I can help them figure out how prey mindsets work, so they can be less confused alientated and demonized by them at least.
Anon, her e-mail address is "me@sociopathworld.com", I guess you overlooked those two letters in front of the @.
DeleteYour project sounds interesting, I'm looking forward to read more.
@A: Main page and blog post page are two different things ;p
ha WOW how did I also not notice the damn ME at the start of that?! I need to sleep better holy crap. I hone in on certain things to such an intensity that I can loose site of basic shit like freaking letters infront of something. Thanks for not being a dick and helping me out, I hope everyone gets that internet savvyness and social intelligence and insanley different things ha. Though ok my errors do seem to be more of just completly missing reading major shit. I need to learn to slow down when I get excited I guess.
DeleteAnd thanks, I hope shell repost my project and take an interest in it, Im dyingto find a psychologist to bite on it too, its just hard when you have no degree in psych shit trying to propose something. Ive studied psych and the dsm, and even started doing "case studies" on my own peers in middle school- for 12 years now. I dated a psychopath for 9 months and finally cracked off her mask when I asked if I could play therapist with her. In the same time it took her therapist to think she was schizophrenic, I was able to throw down my pen and paper and smile at her and tell her, your just fucking with me. I got excited and told her something HUGE is right under the surface with you just brewing, what is it? She slowly opened up in my little "hour session" I had with her, and ended up telling me things like killing a cat, being fully honest and dead pan when i asked if she felt remorse- it was flat affect with a soild NO. She had never been like that before, and was the sweetest nicest most supportive person i ever thoughi dated.
She flipped out after telling me these things she never told another soul, then crashed and burned the relationship- she must have been like, well shit I laid all my cards out on the table and now what? Game over. Boring. She did want despartly to keep me as her first best friend shed ever had however and before i moved out wanted to give me an island pass to as she said, be aboe to visit her whenever i wanted for the rest of her life.
I also met someone recently and in just a week cracked off there mask to reveal they are a sociopath. They said they always felt they may be on yhe spectrum and then i flat out called them out on it. Now there opening up to me in just aboutthe same detail ME does, and Im getting mass amounts of honesty and info, with the promise I made to them that Ill do my best to help them understand an empaths mindset more- and perhaps even how to camoflouse better.
"camoflouse"?
DeleteLOL.
I think you meant "camouflage".
That was your second English lesson of the day. The first one was free, but this one will cost you. That will be $150.00, taxes in.
I accept PayPal and all major credit cards. Just email your personal information to youmoron@dumbasscentral.com.
You have a *great* day, now. :D
ROTFLMAO!!! Too FUN!!! I'm glad you figured it out Anon - it really was meant as a friendly poke (for SW, anyway).
Delete@A: You crack me up!!! I wish I can buy you a drink -
@NM: All things considered, I'm doing OK - maybe even good. I really should find a job soon, but I am really enjoying hanging out with my kids now that the weather is warm (where I live it's been down right summery!!!). I've been off long enough that some of the business development stuff I've been working at might actually have legs - think good thoughts for me. 8)~
How goes University? I've been nostalgic for my undergrad days -
And, how's the puppy? Getting big? I've been spending a lot of time with my kids, rather than web surfing - I know, I my priorities are all wrong. ;p I will have to check for pics -
Ha, thats what I get for scanning things- and not reading the FIRST thing something says- FROM a reporter, from a reader. Ok so obviously she posts things herself on the main page. What can I say, Im schziophrenic and can range from being wildly disorganzed to being borderline psychopathic when Im hyper focused and aiming to take someone out.
ReplyDelete@NM: I know. You already told him how to contact m.e. The "mocking comment" was to inform him that he had already made a "post to the main page" in the only way possible contacting the blog author directly.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading more from him, I understand why he got... "confused".
@Einstein: "Though ok my errors do seem to be more of just completly missing reading major shit. I need to learn to slow down when I get excited I guess."
That is good advice to yourself. If you want anyone to take you seriously, you may wish to heed it- along with any helpful suggestions from your friend the spell-check. :P
Compose, proof-read, edit, post. Your English lesson for the day. You're welcome.
@A
DeleteWell arent you full of yourself! If your way of measuring intelligence is based on ones ability to memorize- or even really bother to pay SO much attention to what I like to call- society's agreed arrangment of letters to spell a word with,
then your horrendouslh close minded, and will loose out on furthering your ability to learn about different kinds of people, if you are so fast to dismiss someone based off something so trivail, and honestly pathetic. I like to hyper foucs on the content of what I say, not the arrangement of letters. Thats a more narsassitic trait anyways, to talk in purple prose and hyper focus on spelling and grammer. A very pathetic thing in my opnion to dedicate yourself to THAT much.
While your off being a self proclaimed english major to random people on the internet, Ive been studying psych for 12 years, starting at 15, and have cracked the mask off multiple people on this spectrum when no therapist has. And now that I finished writing a proposed research letter to ME, and wasted my time trying to show you your blindsighting yourself if your so quick to dismisn the intelligence of someone else knowing you wont listen due to clear narsassium blinding your ability to learn that theres more then ONE form of intelligence in the world, I will now be off to bed.
And that will be $275 for your basic psych lesson in understanding different forms of intelligence.
Really though, if you want to "survive" its best to be less dismissing like that, and work on dropping the narsassium, it can cause you to dismiss someone too fast based off pety preconceptions, and cause you to be taken down by someone who can outmanouver you still, that you dismissed based on SPELLING errors.
Guess what? I didnt bother to proof read again. I must be a retard cause its SO important to get letters right.
Anon, She's just having fun. Read her other comments and you'll see she is not some close-minded narcissist.
Delete"society's agreed arrangment of letters to spell a word with" <- Thumbs up for this. I like to use unproper syntax. And newly composed words.
So you want to be a therapist? Without degree? Depending on where you live you could work as a "Lifestyle Adviser" or something the like without license°ree.
Your story so far is interesting, only two things really bother me:
1) You use almost no paragraphs, which makes the format a headache to read, and
2) The missing 'c' in narcissist/narcissism/narcissistic. There needs to be a 'c'.
Look, retard. I chose to poke fun at your spelling, but let's delve into your substantive content, shall we?
DeleteYou are not a psychologist, but it took you 9 whole months to diagnose your girlfriend as a psychopath- and you figured it out only after she confessed to killing a cat without remorse. Before that, she was the "sweetest, most supportive person you ever thought you dated". How perceptive of you! You put Sherlock to shame, you mask-cracking genius of deduction, you!~
You claim to have "diagnosed" your fellow middle school "peers". It sure took you a long time to graduate! Oh. Wait a minute. You didn't quite manage to obtain a formal education, as evidenced by your lack of a degree. But no matter. The depth of your perspicacity renders you immune to the need for pesky things like a real education and basic communication skills. We psychos had better watch out! Schizo Boy the Unmasking Avenger has come around to expose us! XD
You claim to be a schizophrenic, and I believe it, considering your word salads and jumbled ideas. You claim to be able to "hyper-focus", but your posts are a written testament to the fact that you cannot keep your mind on a single train of thought long enough to even formulate a cohesive paragraph. I won't even get into the fact that your girlfriend's therapist allegedly misdiagnosed a sociopath for a schizophrenic. Either your girlfriend was lying, or you are. Some therapist you're going to be.
I am not dismissing you on the basis of your poor spelling. You also communicate badly, admit to being uneducated, yet are arrogant about your purported level of knowledge. You demonstrate an astonishing lack of insight concerning your ability to read people, whilst patting yourself on the back for being so damn good at it. You cannot write a coherent sentence, and show proof of an abject lack of reading comprehension. Hell, you can't even be bothered to learn basic blogging protocols, so busy are you jizzing all over yourself with "brilliant" ideas. Yet you expect everyone here to take your "research project" seriously on the basis of your self-commendation and self-avowed psychological insight.
Who's the narcissist, again?
:)
^....Says the uppity language Nazi who failed to proof-read and thereby skipped a word in her post. XD
ReplyDeleteMy comment *should* have read:
"in the only way possible WITHOUT contacting the blog author directly."
There. I pwned myself- since it is unlikely that any of you who actually caught that would call me out on it. :P
:D When it's the exception rather than the rule...
DeleteA, I was about to tell you that ain't direct xD
Delete:-)
Delete"Spell-nazis" usually are just nazis, not psychopaths. If a socio writes "writs" instead of writes he is cool about it, and if others launch a persecution mania against him worthy of Goebbles he cares little or none. "Hysterical empaths" are annoyed by misspelled words. They are rabid. They are on the verge of losing control. If they fly planes and sit alone in cocpits others may have to worry, since they may, for hysterical reasons, long to crash that plane. Be vigilant when it comes to "word sturmbann-fuhrers", they can fall apart any time and take others with them just because they love petty shite AND destruction.
ReplyDeleteYes. Those of us who take the need for good communication skills seriously, and who dare point out someone's glaring deficits in this regard, in an environment where the written word constitutes the sole means of expression, are all "hysterical, rabid empaths" on the verge of losing control and crashing planes on account of our unbridled frustration over... poor spelling. :)
DeleteBecause we're all also pilots. And Nazis in disguise who love "petty shite AND destruction."
Boy, you sure have *me* pegged with your trenchant logical analysis, anonymouse!
I'd better take out my tinfoil hat now, to avoid your dastardly mind-reading telepathic beams.~
<.<
>.>
the ocd on here is crazy.
ReplyDeleteWhat does OCD means ?
ReplyDeleteExamples of reasons to cut someone off
ReplyDeletePerson badmouths all your other mutual friends
Person eventually cuts most of them off
Person can make jokes about you but if you make a joke about him infront of his gf he will put you in a headlock
Person legit shows rage when a girl looks at you instead of him
Person will shower you with too much attention then when you actually want attention, will withdraw and ignore you
Person thinks in terms of alpha and beta
Person thinks he's INTJ and exclaims he is the "1%" although he refuses to take the MBTI test
Person will owe you 20 bucks and never pay you back, then later on you share a 50 dollar bottle of alcohol with him and he gives you the death stare at the grocery store and beckons you to pay half of the cheap meal he wants to cook
You are genuinely a happier person when not in contact with this person
You don't have to be a schizophrenic wannabe-pscyhologist to possibly assume someone has an actual personality disorder, or actually warrents the title of "asshole".
That's just my recent experience though, what do I know.
By the way I don't think killing a cat once necessarily makes someone a sociopath. :-)
What kind of messed up individual kills a cat?
ReplyDelete#1 DETACHING FROM A SOCIOPATH
ReplyDeleteId like to share my story of how I was able to detach from the sociopath. This is the sequence to how i finally got him to be repulsed by me, which made it easier for ME to finally detach from him because he has done the hard part for us. The sociopath disengagement is cold and callous, un diluted which works best cause us emotional people (humans) can flip flop, so to make yourself detach easier, you have to repulse them and find away to make THEM detach from you...
After learning about his disorder 3 months ago, (we were together 9 years, separated 3years he still supported us etc) After the initial shock and the being freaked out aspect of awareness. I could also see people in my environment using similar manipulating tactics. We have children together and i noticed my 10yr old son "practicing" on his sister taunting her and laughing at her reactions (instances i overlooked as a kid thing till now) or times when he'd tell her to do something and if uncompliant would threaten to "talk about SALLY" (shes frrreaked out about a story with a girl named sally- he was using her fears to control her) and i knew i had to learn as much as i could so i could try and curb my son away from becoming full blown like his dad... I needed to see what i was up against empowered now with AWARENESS. (These assholes are only effective because they use the element of surprise)
FIRST PHASE WAS LEARNING the sociopath in HIM
I would go over to the socios house to practice different techniques id learn from websites and see whether 1. They would confirm to me that he really IS a sociopath 2. Analyse his level of hostility with each i used making sure to keep COOL COMPOSURE, CALM and CONTROLLED so you make sure you dont make them guard up/shut down (you cant learn if they shut down). 3. Be wayyy UNPREDICTABLE, i barged into his room straight faced and starting ripping open all his mailed, he didnt say a word and was dumb founded, you have to become unpredictable to them now cause they are snakes that look for your habits to exploit. 4. Then pour on what he loves about you most, flaunt it, throw it at him and hell forget all the things you did just a few minutes ago (BUT YOU WONT) and theyll try and get you in bed as usual... Do this to regain position then leave when your ready and when you sense they are secure with you again. 5. Write down everything that stuck out, write down little things they said and analyse what they COULD have meant by that (remember it and probe them next time to find out theyre thought process behind it)…. CONTINUED
#2 DETACHING FROM A SOCIOPATH
ReplyDeleteI did different things while learning till i felt i had enough understanding .I learnt what type of things he previously used to control me with and it was funny when i could see his frustration when none of them worked anymore. It became a game and therapeutic in a BIG way because i felt empowered knowing its MY TURN to do the analyzing using all his own tactics against him.
The socio in my life is NON violent, he also has a weird fear towards me that stems from his mum, he often says how strong i am, with an admiring yet scared undertone (she was the one who punished them growing up/hit them with a wooden spoon instructed by the father- whos probly a narc or socio too) I needed him to live with us again so he came back. Every time hed go to work, id research and STAY refreshed and clued on about sociopath traits. I noticed when i didnt do this, i would slip into a "wifey" type mode so i had to keep my mind focused on the reality of what he is instead of what certain responses from my body his proximatey to me would provoke. The month he was here were straining mentally but ultimately aided in his finally REPULSION of me and the things I did in the repulsion phase were.
1. Pull them up on EVERYTHING you notice them doing, saying, trying to do, implying, lying, changing stories etc and when they try to come up with something else DO NOT back down, stick to what your first observation is. He/she will hate it and storm off. Also stipulate that even if they say something that later decides to “change” or they didn’t mean it that way, too bad the original still applys. 2. When theyre upset, throw what they value most about you at them, flaunt it and get them feeling happy again (whatever they value most from you) This is also an indicator for you, theres a reason your doing it that will make sense at the end. 3. Make observations and tell them about it often. Tell them your opinions on the things you notice them doing or saying. Assume based on that observation what YOU think it means. And tell them as if it is ABSOLUTE truth. The socio in my life hated it. 4. This was the final straw for the socio in my life, that got him to be REPULSED by me and to detach from me........ HE THINKS IM A LIAR_ I said something that upset him, he went away and came back. So i said "from now on, ill tell you what you want to hear" he didnt like that and wanted me to elaborate so i said "well when i tell you the truth it upsets you, so from now on ill keep the truth to myself and tell you what you want to hear" I said it in a cheerful tone. He was pissed RIGHT OFF!!! COLDER then COLD, DISTANT beyond anything before. THIS was the final straw for the socio yayy!!! How did I know?? Because none of my throwing myself at him is worked anymore, none of the previous ways he would come back worked so i know that is OVER!!!! Its really OVER!!!
He kept saying "your fake, no your a liar, nah cause your fake" YAYY!!! I repulsed him! And now we (me and kids) are free...... :D
A good informative post that you have shared and appreciate your work for sharing the information.
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ReplyDelete