From a reader:
I come bearing the question countless others must have asked you. Identity is a confusing and often evasive concept: and though I like to believe I've established a firm sense of self, I'm unsure of my true nature. Am I a sociopath, or simply paranoid about certain characteristics?
Between the years of approximately 8-11, I exhibited a textbook symptom of socio/psychopathy--torturing animals. I didn't know why I did it, there was no logical deduction for the matter. I wasn't expressing pent up rage or harboring intense feelings of vengeance, I just watched in morbid fascination. It was only a year or two later that I told my mother about it (spinning the tale slightly, of course, in order to retain a few layers of the facade I was sure that hid the monster I was) and receiving some degree of comfort at the assurance that I was no such beast. It was natural, she told me. Children often don't know what they're doing. But I knew what I was doing. And I knew that I felt nothing under the thin surface of anxiety and perplexity.
My relationship with my family has been one of occasional turmoil. I regard them as little more than an experiment of sorts--I test out certain erratic behaviors and obscure ideologies in order to observe the reaction they cause among "normal" people and learn based on the results. It's not to say I don't love them in my own way. As with all my relationships, I love them off my perception of their ability to intellectually stimulate myself. I enjoy the responses I can elicit from my family members, particularly my conservative father. But if a bullet was racing towards one of them, I would regard the situation as an unfortunate obligation to step in front of it rather than devotion to a "familial bond". At least I might die an apparent hero--I'm a sucker for the spotlight.
I used to have a friend that I would emotionally toy with more often than not. I was mindful of the effects of the backhanded compliments I gave to her and the jealousy I purposefully provoked among other things. It's easy to read this now and stereotype myself as a simple bitch, but I know that my manipulations were the result of boredom rather than true maliciousness. The same restlessness nearly got me killed by prompting myself to swallow a handful of pills years ago on a whim. I seek understanding and knowledge above all else (well, besides self-gratification), and as I walked past the cupboard I was struck by a longing to know. Curiosity (nearly) killed the cat, I suppose.
Emotional trauma is nonexistent to me. I don't scar quite as easily as others-- all of the potentially triggering events in my life I regard with ambivalence at best. Ms. Thomas, I hate to sound presumptuous but throughout reading your book, but I was struck by the similarity of our upbringings. My father was abusive toward us for a time, yet I have been raised in an actively devout (although Catholic) family. In spite of the fact that I cannot bring myself to wholeheartedly believe in any particular religion, I refuse to negate the possibilities.
I could describe multiple other instances where I was certain I was a sociopath, but I do not like to wear such heavy labels. I find them constraining on my interactions with others. However, my antithesis of this plea for understanding is the odd inconsistencies with my fitting in to this mental condition. While emotional manipulation is endlessly entertaining, I despise asking for material favors if I am in true need. I don't typically go out of my way to damage the feelings of others unless I am provoked by intense boredom, and although I refrain from expressing or even experiencing substantial emotion I think that I care for a few of my friends; if only due to their profound capacity for intellectual conversation. I am risk taking and spontaneous to the point of concern, but I find unlimited joy in pondering the mysteries of life. Do these things eliminate me from the possibility of being a sociopath?
I come bearing the question countless others must have asked you. Identity is a confusing and often evasive concept: and though I like to believe I've established a firm sense of self, I'm unsure of my true nature. Am I a sociopath, or simply paranoid about certain characteristics?
Between the years of approximately 8-11, I exhibited a textbook symptom of socio/psychopathy--torturing animals. I didn't know why I did it, there was no logical deduction for the matter. I wasn't expressing pent up rage or harboring intense feelings of vengeance, I just watched in morbid fascination. It was only a year or two later that I told my mother about it (spinning the tale slightly, of course, in order to retain a few layers of the facade I was sure that hid the monster I was) and receiving some degree of comfort at the assurance that I was no such beast. It was natural, she told me. Children often don't know what they're doing. But I knew what I was doing. And I knew that I felt nothing under the thin surface of anxiety and perplexity.
My relationship with my family has been one of occasional turmoil. I regard them as little more than an experiment of sorts--I test out certain erratic behaviors and obscure ideologies in order to observe the reaction they cause among "normal" people and learn based on the results. It's not to say I don't love them in my own way. As with all my relationships, I love them off my perception of their ability to intellectually stimulate myself. I enjoy the responses I can elicit from my family members, particularly my conservative father. But if a bullet was racing towards one of them, I would regard the situation as an unfortunate obligation to step in front of it rather than devotion to a "familial bond". At least I might die an apparent hero--I'm a sucker for the spotlight.
I used to have a friend that I would emotionally toy with more often than not. I was mindful of the effects of the backhanded compliments I gave to her and the jealousy I purposefully provoked among other things. It's easy to read this now and stereotype myself as a simple bitch, but I know that my manipulations were the result of boredom rather than true maliciousness. The same restlessness nearly got me killed by prompting myself to swallow a handful of pills years ago on a whim. I seek understanding and knowledge above all else (well, besides self-gratification), and as I walked past the cupboard I was struck by a longing to know. Curiosity (nearly) killed the cat, I suppose.
Emotional trauma is nonexistent to me. I don't scar quite as easily as others-- all of the potentially triggering events in my life I regard with ambivalence at best. Ms. Thomas, I hate to sound presumptuous but throughout reading your book, but I was struck by the similarity of our upbringings. My father was abusive toward us for a time, yet I have been raised in an actively devout (although Catholic) family. In spite of the fact that I cannot bring myself to wholeheartedly believe in any particular religion, I refuse to negate the possibilities.
I could describe multiple other instances where I was certain I was a sociopath, but I do not like to wear such heavy labels. I find them constraining on my interactions with others. However, my antithesis of this plea for understanding is the odd inconsistencies with my fitting in to this mental condition. While emotional manipulation is endlessly entertaining, I despise asking for material favors if I am in true need. I don't typically go out of my way to damage the feelings of others unless I am provoked by intense boredom, and although I refrain from expressing or even experiencing substantial emotion I think that I care for a few of my friends; if only due to their profound capacity for intellectual conversation. I am risk taking and spontaneous to the point of concern, but I find unlimited joy in pondering the mysteries of life. Do these things eliminate me from the possibility of being a sociopath?
"Do these things eliminate me from the possibility of being a sociopath?"
ReplyDeleteLulu Pip Humdinger. Funny question, too.
Just to clarify in case any confusion arises as a result of my comment, "lulu, pip and humdinger" mean a champ or crackerjack to me. The words also define a peculiar example of a person or thing.
DeleteThis blog is dying. I want to see your comments, M.E., not some forwarded email. Insight from you is valuable. It's fairly obvious that you've stopped caring about your blog.
DeleteAnon, "you've stopped caring . . ."
DeleteAu Contraire.
I understand that it's intriguing to investigate oneself and give oneself a name or a diagnosis. It happened to me. I knew that I had some empathy issues (LOL) but I honestly thought sociopaths are some hardcore criminals that are locked up in prison.
ReplyDeleteThen I read M.E.'s book and googled the list of characteristics. They matched me so well that it felt like coming home. :D I ended up getting slightly obsessed about the subject – I just wanted to find out everything there is to know about sociopathy (and it's how I ended up here too).
Now I've lived with this new understanding for about six months or so. The way I see it is that I often ask myself "OK, I can see that these traits match my own. Now, am I happy about the way I act and is my behavior serving me the best possible way?" Sometimes the answer is yes and sometimes no. And then I try and adjust my behavior.
The alternative would be to think "OK, I am a sociopath, this is just the way I am and behave, deal with it world."
I think it's been wonderful to understand this. The best way I can currently explain it is that I can see that my brain is wired in a specific way; I often react to certain things in a certain way. I used to be a bit blind to my own behavior until I started to recognize it (through learning about the subject). So now I can better adjust the way I act.
And here is an important thing (I think): it doesn't matter what you think. Nobody can read your thoughts. It's about the way you act so pay attention to your behaviour.
I've also started to be more honest with people about the way I am. I let my guard slip a bit and see if people can handle it. Those who can, are the people I want to spend time with.
I'm currently trying to get better at some things. These include being more patient, acting less on my impulses (in the same category than the first one), using my strengths to benefit me better (currently taking on a sports challenge – even that feels amazing now that I can better see my strengths and weaknesses), shaping my business to better reflect my "personality" and so on.
So the point is in my opinion; no worth asking someone else "am I this and that". What the hell, how would anyone else ever know what you are. Look into a mirror and ask yourself. Then decide if you're happy about the way things are or if you want to challenge yourself by learning a few new tricks.
This describes me as well. I wear a light mask, too, and my friends accept me for who I am. Hell, the best part about it, is that I can get away with saying things that no one else can. What helps me get better at things, is adopting an optimistic yet stoic attitude. I subdue narcissist tendencies and only use it when I need to achieve something. All sociopaths use narcissism as a way to "feel" the world. A narcissistic sociopath is truly the most destructive. I have no desire to see the world burn, however, so I just work on adapting to different environments and I study people to have an intuitive database on how to interact with people.
DeleteLola, it's definitely a relief to discover your true identity. I love those movies or songs that are all about finding yourself. They need to make one where the end result is "Congratulations, you're a sociopath!!!"
I wonder, when it came to owning the label of sociopath, what clinched it for you? Are there any little thoughts or concerns scratching away at your subconscious to suggest that the diagnosis isn't complete? You both strike me as intelligent and self-aware, and I'm interested in what you think.
DeleteSomebody: Sociopath is merely a label. In fact, I think it is misused, often, as a synonym for evil criminals. Personally, I see it as a different operating system. Empaths are regular people who empathize with other empathize, with some able to empathize with people like me. Narcissists are vampires, unaware of what they are, who feed off the attention of others. Being a socio/psycho is more like a mix of robot and feral animal. Most of the time I am very calculated and utilitarian. Sometimes, I succumb to crazy impulses, and fuck up something in my life just to test myself on how I'll react
DeleteAt age 26, I am relatively mature and introspective, considering I am a high functioning sociopath. People are more complex than labels and a sociopath must know this more than anybody, if they seek to assimilate. As a complex identity, I identify as an ENTP, tritype 7w8 3w2 9w1, with some Asperger's traits. Additionally, I find emotions frustrating, and have hardly any affective empathy. I've made up for it by religiously studying psychology so that I can have cognitive empathy. I've mentioned before that I used to have a low self esteem because I was so different. I used to be an overcompensating narcissist that just wanted people to like him. I've always had sociopathic traits, but being able to fit in is more important than destroying those around me.
Being intelligent is usually tied with sociopathy, and each person can decide how best to use it. We all have different traits and social interaction preferences, as well. Some, like me, are friendly and try to fit into society while maintaining a certain distance from emotional interactions, by wearing a light mask. I have no desire to hurt or manipulate people, but I won't feel guilty if I do, because I hardly feel anything. If that happens, I did it for a reason, and the best way for me to show "love" to others is to take care of myself, while affecting as little people as possible (Such as always paying for my own shit, which is not always something I succeed at.) The most common perception of sociopaths are the manipulators and criminals. It's the guy who takes a lot of pleasure in murdering/torturing someone in a movie. The succubus woman who plays men and sucks out their soul. Or even celebrities like Lance Armstrong who nonchalantly brushed off criticism of his steroid use. Many other 'paths, and myself, see that last situation through mostly apathy. He was the best cyclist among a pack of cheaters; who cares?
Wrapping up my soliloquy, the key to my own enlightenment has been to strengthen my ego to where I no longer have to deal with overcompensating narcissism. I talk a lot less than I use to and no longer seek the approval of others. I am all I need for approval and I'm just another person who isn't entitled to anything. Like I said, I've adopted the stoic's philosophy. I am rare to anger, much less any emotion, and I do not seek to be exalted above others. This is to protect me from myself. Yeah I sound like a damn Jedi, but anger leads to hate, which leads to trouble, and I prefer to stay out of trouble. Sociopaths who intentionally inflict pain on others do so validate their own pain, that they once had, but no longer feel. Existentially, I suppose I might delude myself into thinking I am not evil, as I believe I am more neutral. This all starts with being introspective, which many sociopaths never achieve. I am lucky to have people that love me, even if I cannot never love them near as much as they love me. I accept that this is who I am, and if God exists, then he made me this way. If he doesn't, then I am nothing but an animal, anyway, so it doesn't even matter what I do.
Anyway, thanks for asking and don't be afraid to be friends with a sociopath. You can learn plenty from one of us and we, of course, are always going to study you.
Thanks for replying SND.
DeleteMy overall impression is that you're fairly similar to me. I'm in my late 20's, INTJ 1w9. I've had to overcome narcissism and approval-seeking behavior, have low affective empathy and strong cognitive empathy, and am slow to anger, or feel any emotion, especially when in relation to another person. I try to pay my own way as well, because I strongly dislike feeling like I owe someone something.
I like the way you skirted around calling yourself intelligent directly, as a way of avoiding narcissism. You're probably as annoyed as I am that while people can openly brag about their athletic ability, wealth, or sexual exploits, it's taboo to call yourself smart. So, you demonstrate it with the same words you use to deny it, and resolve yourself to the fact that those able to recognize it will notice and appreciate it.
The question I have for you is this. Does being able to understand and think like a sociopath make you a sociopath? Do you act like one, or do you recognize the effectiveness of prosocial behavior? How many of those boxes do you tick in theory, but not as rules governing your behavior?
To answer your questions Somebody: I could write a book about the subject but I'll try and be short and sweet. What "nailed" it was just the way I was like "yes, that's what I've been doing and it's how I still go about things". The way I react to things and therefore act.
DeleteAnd then came the deeper understanding of how my brain sort of works. It helped me enormously to have a great friend with whom I was able to talk about this very openly from the first moment of coming to terms with it. She is not a socio but very intelligent and open-minded.
Since the first glimpse of this new perspective I've been analyzing my behavior – almost obsessively I admit. When I heard that my dad has a life-threatening illness I was inspecting how I react. (Result: I was upset but the main reason was that he has such a solid role in my family that the whole structure would sort of collapse if he died.)
"Are there any little thoughts or concerns scratching away at your subconscious to suggest that the diagnosis isn't complete?"'
Of course. I refuse to believe that the mind is a non-flexible organ because that would limit me hugely. I'm happy to accept what is – and what cannot be changed – but I also want to get the most out of life.
I'm trying to figure out whether I am neurobiologically like this (I've interviewed my mother about my childhood and read an old diary she used to write about my toddler years and it seems like I was not interested in being held or receiving comfort from a very young age but always wanted to do everything myself) OR if I started to behave like this because it was a way to survive (analyzing my early relationships with adults to see how I adapted my behavior).
One huge revelation has been that for me happiness is liberation. That means that if this is what I am then be it. I am incredibly lucky to have several friends that are super understanding and open-minded so it's becoming easier and easier to be what I am.
Another revelation: Being the way I currently am is just not very suited to the standard way of living. So I'm living the way that suits me better. That means that I don't do many of the things people regularly do. No family outings (or very rarely), no regular job (I would die), no parties (waste of time usually), no social gatherings unless important and work-related, no stupid bullshit smalltalk etc. I've found out that I LOVE structure and I am boringly repetitive in my daily life.
The only place where I can be completely relaxed and myself is my home. The only living things that I can be just me are children (up to the age when they become self-aware), animals and a handful of people (although not always 100%). The rest of the time I'm playing a game. I plan my moves (almost automatically): the way I talk, sit, act. By noticing and accepting it I'm learning to enjoy it more BUT I would love to be able to be relaxed with anywhere and with anyone and I'm seeing if I can make it happen.
My biggest threats are when I have to deal with my tendency to get bored (not feeling content), my lack of direction in life and risky behavior. But by acknowledging these I can make the most out of them. Getting bored means living a colorful life, lack of direction in life means not being attached to things and risky behavior helps in business. The downside is that it wouldn't surprise me if I do end up in jail or die because of one of my adventures. But by acknowledging these risks I try to calculate the best possible way to be who I am and avoid the unpleasant consequences.
Makes sense?
A thought that just came to my mind: I don't feel relaxed even with my mother or sisters. Even then I am hugely self-aware and that's why interacting with people takes SO much energy. It's easier to talk on the phone than be physically present.
Delete"Does being able to understand and think like a sociopath make you a sociopath? Do you act like one, or do you recognize the effectiveness of prosocial behavior? How many of those boxes do you tick in theory, but not as rules governing your behavior?"
Right now I would answer like this: I believe all people are capable of evil thinking. I think "sociopaths" are sort of wired so that they react (mentally and sometimes physically) to certain triggers in a particular way. It's the way they see the world, their instinct.
Some claim that sociopaths cannot alter their behavior. I believe that certain low-functioning socios cannot. But the way to function as a sociopath in a society is to recognize the difference between thoughts and reality and adapt behavior to best suit the situation.
That's the way I see it.
@SND I find it interesting that you had to overcome narcissism to become more high functioning. Until very recently I lived in a bubble of my own creation where I was better and smarter and prettier and more deserving of everything than anyone else. I met an empath over the summer who I suspect was an INFJ who shattered my illusions and helped me break out of my narcissistic bubble. I now see that most of my accomplishments are a result of trickery or fraud and I'm actually much less deserving of them than a lot of my competitors. I doubt I will change and manipulate/lie/cheat less, but I have a lot more humility and a lot less entitlement about it. I like to think I've become more gracious and less critical to people because I no longer consider myself their superior. In some ways, I am their absolute inferior because I will always be shallower and less able to connect meaningfully.
DeleteI also find it interesting that you test as an ENTP. I've tested as many different things on the Myers Brigs, and then finally realized I was filtering my responses to fit what I thought I was supposed to be/think/feel. I constantly filter myself so I can be more palatable for society and they won't spit me out and throw me away, rotten apple that I am. When I finally took the test without filtering myself, I was an ENTP too. I read some statistic about 50% of sociopaths testing as ENTPs - good thing I filtered my responses when I took the test earlier, with some peers; I think I got INFJ then. The woman who broke me out of my narcissism definitely left her mark on me.
@Lola I relate so much to your response - interviewing your parents to find out about your childhood for sure. I read ME's book and started asking them a lot of questions. My behavior was somewhat strange, but not too noticable, apparently. I also remember being upset when my uncle was dying of brain cancer because I knew it would upset everyone else and I wasn't good at dealing with heartbroken people. I didn't realize how self absorbed this was at the time so I'm really glad I never shared how inconvenienced I felt with any of my relatives then.
It sounds like you've found your niche in the world. You have friends who understand you and a way of life that suits you. Boredom is always problematic for me too. I absolutely agree with what you wrote about adaptation - "recognize the difference between thoughts and reality and adapt behavior." That's the greatest thing about thoughts - a thought is merely a thought and no one is the wiser if they don't fit within the cookie cutter lines of societal norms, as long as your behavior does.
"Being a socio/psycho is more like a mix of robot and feral animal."
DeleteHow would you continue this thought, Socio Next Door? How would you visualize this comparison as you unravel your thoughts?
"The rest of the time I'm playing a game. I plan my moves (almost automatically): the way I talk, sit, act."
DeleteLola, Is every single move that you make planned in advance, as in playing a game of chess? If you were to re-name each piece in a game of chess, where would your imagination take you and what names would you choose?
Thanks for the response, Lola.
DeleteShort and sweet is good. Responding to a set of diagnostic criteria with, "Yep, this is me." without needing to qualify it (though I'm sure you're able) speaks volumes. Every revelation I've had has only provided more questions, not answers, so I envy you. That you have a friend with whom you can communicate openly is enviable as well. I haven't yet found someone with whom I'd be comfortable sharing everything, the best I can do is dance around certain topics, discover that they're taboo, and let them be.
If I thought you were a normal person, I'd say I was sorry that your dad has a life-threatening illness. In reality, I'm just curious about what it is.
So, nature vs. nurture? I probably don't have to tell you that it's both, given that early experiences and even adult behavior can modify gene expression. Hell, epigenetics suggests that things your grandparents did prior to conceiving your parents can modify your genes, albeit in ways that are impossible to tease out.
Liberation being happiness is a curious concept. I was able to be almost completely honest with my ex, who is probably a psychopath. There's something that keeps drawing my thoughts back to her, and that could be it. I'm with someone now who meets my needs and will help me achieve a number of my goals, but she is a totally normal person. I question whether I'm really okay with spending the rest of my life pretending. I don't lie so much as I allow people to persist in their misunderstandings.
I've adapted well enough to 'normal' life such that in whatever way I'm fucked up, I'm stable and functional. My impulsivity is mostly under control, I'm highly educated with consistent (though unconventional) employment, and though my level of procrastination should probably be a criminal offense, I meet every deadline, excelling and even reveling under the pressure.
Kids are fun, though most intelligent people and sociopaths seem to hate them. I'm fine playing with them, chasing them around for an entire evening while ignoring all the adults. I get away with it because it's somehow endearing to others that I have fun with them.
I have engaged in risky behavior with potentially serious consequences without a second thought, but I'm usually very careful. I find it's easy to avoid those sorts of things with forethought, but sometimes opportunities arise and I can't resist.
Ha, I can relax around most people, provided I'm allowed to be quiet. Then again, being a guy, most people don't expect me to be talking all the time. I can get away with seeming the strong, silent type.
Being intelligent enough to adapt is critical for survival, but it doesn't change the desire to be in situations where adaptation isn't necessary.
@Dorian I have found people that accept me yes. These are intelligent people that understand better than to be narrow-minded and judgmental. I usually say to them "I've come to realize that I have some sociopathic tendencies" rather than "I am a psychopath". This usually seems to them like I'm admitting to my dark side and can even give them a permission to open up and share theirs. Quite fun.
DeleteI have ONE friend who knows everything and with whom I joke about it. So I might say to her "this is my opinion but bare in mind that I am a sociopath" and then we can have a laugh.
Then there is this one man and I am quite (very) sure he is a sociopath – although quite different to me in his way of expressing it – but I know that he doesn't believe in labels so I haven't used that word. BUT I can tell him whatever I want and I know he doesn't even blink – as long as I'm being rational and honest. And here is a confession: I find it hugely attractive that I can't play him the way I usually can (play people). I just cannot, he is not having any of it. He is rock solid and I love him for that.
And yes, I have sort of found my niche. The funniest thing is that I have almost complete freedom, I am fairly successful and so on but I don't feel like this is it. It's because it's not about the result for me, it's been the journey getting here. The game. So I'm constantly dreaming of giving up everything and starting over differently. That's my plan if I fail to feel content. And I know that one day I will. I just don't know yet what the next thing will be.
@Once I don't quite understand your question but I'll try and get to it anyway. One of my closest friends – the one that knows the true me – is very important to me. So I've sort of promised myself that I don't play games with her. BUT sometimes I notice that I might act a certain way or say something to her because I know she will mention it to someone whom I'm trying to impress. So I use her as my messenger. It obviously doesn't hurt her so it's not such a big deal but it's just about that game thing that I do without even planning. Sometimes I might plan my moves ahead (like if I have a goal I might plan how I get there). I have no idea what I would call each piece though. :D
@Somebody Don't envy me. The only reason I've finally found my way to handle this thing (life) is because I used to suck at it. So I learned. Learned to better get along with people, learned what I like and don't like doing, learned about myself and created this world where I can function OK.
About my dad: it's cancer.
"I question whether I'm really okay with spending the rest of my life pretending."
I was thinking of this today. Everybody pretends. Think of those men and women that dress up and go to an office for the whole day every day just to pretend. They speak funny professional language, they learn these suitable manners and wear uncomfortable shoes that they think will make them look important or rich. Now I might be a master of pretending but I would never do that because it's so silly. And at least I'm aware that I'm pretending and therefore it can even be quite fun.
I don't usually like giving advice but here we go. You say you don't know if you can pretend. Do it if you enjoy it and don't do it if you don't. Simple as that and can be applied to almost everything. ;)
That's about it. I'm happy to chat, it's great to share experiences I think.
Well Lola, I'm truly glad that you've found a way to survive. Also, I hope for your sake that your dad sticks around. I've got a hunch that your support system is very important to you, and it would be unfortunate if it were to collapse.
DeleteThank god I've got a job where I can wear whatever I want. I'd hate to have to dress uncomfortably and strut around like a peacock, clucking appropriately and fanning my tail. I'd honestly prefer if everyone were comfortable being naked, not out of some perverted desire to stare at tits, but because I feel fine in my own skin.
Oh man, if I only did things I enjoyed I'd hardly do anything at all! My working solution is to come here to satisfy my intellectual desires and poke around inside peoples' heads (and my own) while managing everything else the way I always do.
While I lack empathy, I don't want for morality. If I can give someone everything they want and they're happy with it, is it wrong for me to do so if in so doing I cannot be genuine? I don't mind lying, and I don't even mind when others lie, so long as they have the decency to be good at it. Nothing is so aggravating as a bad liar.
I'm always up for engaging new and interesting conversation partners. I've included a link to an e-mail address if you'd like to talk more.
Lola, I read your thoughts, and comprehending them has not been easy. Do you feel as though you are trying quite hard to impress someone? While I do not want to dwell on the past, I can think of several instances in my life when I was straightforwardly told that I was attempting to impress, or that I was purposefully trying too hard to accomplish a certain thing. The perplexing factor is that in all of those instances, I was, in fact, being myself, or simply engaging in conversations, but for a reason which I never understood, people’s perceptions were incorrect. I found that communicating freely with certain individuals makes me appear like the “outsider.” Having said that, my advice to you is to be yourself, and to continue being who you are in any given situation.
DeleteThe question about the game pieces was also part of a simple conversation to me. My mind works in a different way, and this is how I usually express myself. Authentically speaking, it is part of being curious and of having personality quirks, but having to explain this has already made me feel like the “outsider,” which brings back some memories. You see, my reason for being here is to communicate freely without encountering this issue.
Why didn’t you just speak directly to the person that you attempted to impress?
I'll keep it short because I'm tired and have to go play corporate tomorrow. Lola, the corporate game is not that bad as long as you have fun with it. It also helps that I take adderall so that it at least looks like I care.
DeleteSomebody, I avoid calling myself brilliant because it's meaningless to everyday life and it only builds up narcissism. I am Mensa level smart, and there are plenty of people I graduated college with that are making more money than me. I could tell myself myself that I deserve to make more than them or I can recognize that I haven't earned the opportunity because I am lazy and was entitled. Intelligence is a bit of a curse, too, because it is the reason I am so detached from the world and became a sociopath. Sometimes I think it must be nice to be dumb with petty feelings, because then I'd be normal. Then I say fuck that, just don't act like a know it all dick and learn to integrate. Life's a game, to me, and it's so much easier to play when I avoid stupid mistakes. It's more enjoyable to position myself for promotion than getting fired and starting over again. (I've been fired three times)
Dorian, it's nice to see others on this site (Somebody, too) who acknowledge Jungian functions. NTs in general are prone to sociopathy because intuition creates a detachment from the world and thinking trumps feelings (No shit, right?) Extroverts are more sociable and create larger impressions. Finally, Perceptive types generally don't want to follow rules to ENTPs are the most prone to primary psychopathy, although ESTP sociopaths exhibit more anti-social behavior. I consider a sociopath to be completely detached from emotional boundaries to where all decisions are ultimately filtered through a utilitarian process. Hence the robot part of our psyche, Once. The other factor is the impulsive nature that is not held back by emotional morals, (The feral animal.) Each individual, like this, evolves on their own.
Once, you sound like you have asperger's. If so, cooool. If not, explain why you type like a weirdo. Either way, feel free to join our inside circle. I reserve my attack arsenal for stupid people who tell me what to do, people who make stupid judgment decisions based on logical fallacies, and insufferable narcissists. Keep in mind that not everybody plays nice around here.
Finally, it looks like I typed way more than I wanted. Looks like I contradicted my own statement. I'm sure most people hate hypocrisy, but it never bothered me.
Part 1
Delete@Somebody "I've got a hunch that your support system is very important to you, and it would be unfortunate if it were to collapse."
His illness made me realize what role my dad has had in my family and how it has affected me. He's been the one supporting many of us (financially and otherwise) but at the same time he is not the easiest to deal with. I wonder what everything will be like when he is gone one day. I think it may even liberate me a little more although I will for sure miss many things that he has brought to my life.
"Oh man, if I only did things I enjoyed I'd hardly do anything at all!"
Have you actually tried this? I think I'll always do something because otherwise I would be utterly bored. But I would love it if I never had to think about financial stuff. Money doesn't motivate me, it's just a way to be able to support the lifestyle I want.
"If I can give someone everything they want and they're happy with it, is it wrong for me to do so if in so doing I cannot be genuine?"
Why would it matter? Here is a contradiction I often spot: some people criticize others of being dishonest but then they get upset when people don't behave the way they want them to behave.
@Once "...my advice to you is to be yourself, and to continue being who you are in any given situation."
How could I possibly be anything (or anyone) other than myself? This is me whether I manipulate or if I'm honest or anything else. It's still me. By being "yourself" do you mean saying exactly what you think? I'm sorry but in my game that's not a very good practice especially when you want to excel in the game. And I am a player – at least very often I am.
"The question about the game pieces was also part of a simple conversation to me... ...but having to explain this has already made me feel like the “outsider."
It seems to me that the only one feeling like they have to explain themselves and therefore feeling like an outsider is you. I don't feel that way. I just didn't understand your question.
"Why didn’t you just speak directly to the person that you attempted to impress?"
Because sometimes it works better that way – letting people "accidentally" hear what you want them to hear. :)
Part 2
Delete@Socio Next Door "Lola, the corporate game is not that bad as long as you have fun with it. It also helps that I take adderall so that it at least looks like I care."
I have nothing against playing games but I think some people are hypocrite when they accuse of socios (or anyone) of being fake and then they do the same thing in a different context.
I have a question for you: How do you feel about working in that environment and working for someone in general? I'm only curious because I am not capable of doing that. I've tried but the longest I've ever worked for someone was just over two years and it was actually physically painful working in an office. I also cannot plan ahead or work towards long-term goals. This may just be me though.
"I avoid calling myself brilliant because it's meaningless to everyday life and it only builds up narcissism. I am Mensa level smart... ...Intelligence is a bit of a curse, too, because it is the reason I am so detached from the world and became a sociopath."
Didn't you just sort of say want you "didn't want to say"? :D And what do you mean when you say you BECAME a sociopath?
"Life's a game, to me, and it's so much easier to play when I avoid stupid mistakes. It's more enjoyable to position myself for promotion than getting fired and starting over again. (I've been fired three times)"
I agree and I find it super interesting improving myself constantly: mentally, physically and socially. I love it and I think it's my calling. :D I've only been fired once but many client relationships have ended quite nastily. I try to avoid it because I find it easier to move on when I haven't burnt all the bridges but sometimes I just don't care.
"Once, you sound like you have asperger's. If so, cooool. If not, explain why you type like a weirdo. Either way, feel free to join our inside circle."
DeleteSocio Next Door, I was officially identified as gifted and talented. Having explained that, it is not about "typing like a weirdo," as you call it; instead, it has to do with creativity, quirks and versatility of expression. The minds of gifted and talented individuals work in this fashion. It is a major trait and innate channel of expression.
Lola, It was not about "understanding" my question about the chess pieces, as in rationalizing my words. It was about freely using your imagination to envision something completely new and apart from the norm. In other words, where would your imagination take you in devising new names for the game pieces? However, having said that you have no idea what you would call or re-name each game piece, you have already answered my question. There is no need to dwell on it any further.
Delete"By being "yourself" do you mean saying exactly what you think? I'm sorry but in my game that's not a very good practice especially when you want to excel in the game. And I am a player – at least very often I am."
I suppose that each one of us has a particular way of communicating or conveying certain thoughts. :)
@Lola
DeleteMy family doesn't really have a linchpin, but everyone is very close and supportive of each other. I'm independent enough that if anyone died, it wouldn't really feel liberating. In your case, it seems that some people are barriers, but barriers can be leaned on so it's not prudent to tear them all down.
I have not, actually. I have goals that are feasible, though most people would call me crazy if I actually pursued them. I suppose I can give it a shot.
I am more and more buying into the adage that what people don't know can't hurt them. Perfect honesty causes all sorts of problems, and I've been honest enough to realize what a mistake it can be in certain situations.
Once, I was gifted and talented too. Hell, most sociopaths are. "Having explained that, it is not about "typing like a weirdo," as you call it; instead, it has to do with creativity, quirks and versatility of expression. The minds of gifted and talented individuals work in this fashion. It is a major trait and innate channel of expression."
DeleteOk, my aspie friend.
@Somebody: "I am more and more buying into the adage that what people don't know can't hurt them. Perfect honesty causes all sorts of problems, and I've been honest enough to realize what a mistake it can be in certain situations." I agree. It's better to be honest in life, but not to a fault. The funny thing about lying, is how it eventually becomes reality, even if it isn't a fact. So many narcissists out there really believe the shit that comes out of their mouth.
For you ENTPs, it is an NP type habit to type a shitton. Our brains ramble off neverending strings of thought. I always thought more socios would be ESTP though. Not all of course, but yeah. I am an INTP myself. I ask myself if I am a socio quite frequently until I remember when I cried at Panera in response to a life story about someone I don't know. And I cry at church a lot. Why, you ask did I even question it? Because half the time I don't feel anything for people. I don't want to see people, I don't really care what they do as long as it doesn't affect me, and I really have to work to make myself go out of my way to help others, including my family and friends (unless I feel like it of course). I don't understand why people are still mad at me after I apologize or why they beat themselves up about stuff. But just every so often I do feel things. I actually really like feels, except anger. They are enriching and give me good inspirations to write. But then when they go away I get in a strange sort of depressive state where I just kind of exist and don't recall what feels feel like, yet the memory of what I had with them makes me feel kinda purposeless now. It gets worse if I have been around others too much. I probably get drained. I am an INTP, and we are not known for being good with feels until we reach Yoda status.
DeleteI have been pecking on some ideas here:
ReplyDelete“I don't scar quite as easily as others.
In spite of the fact that I cannot bring myself to wholeheartedly believe in any particular religion, I refuse to negate the possibilities.
…capacity for intellectual conversation. I am risk taking and spontaneous to the point of concern, but I find unlimited joy in pondering the mysteries of life.
I test out certain erratic behaviors and obscure ideologies in order to observe the reaction they cause among "normal" people and learn based on the results.”
True or false for others reading this?
A little of both.
DeleteI do scar easily from observing the human catastrophe and suffering of this nutty world. In personal ways, not so much. I'm way past the age of caring what most people think.
I also refuse to negate ANY possibility. And enjoy intellectual conversations, even 'dangerous' conversations, because danger is part of exploring all mysteries: Chances are even a partial answer to any profound mystery will test the firmest of beliefs, especially my own.
I 'test' certain behaviors/ideologies in the best way I know: By speaking my mind as honestly as possible. Being normal doesn't mean you don't occasionally act erratically or engage in obscure thoughts. Whatever the reaction might be, I take it with a grain of salt. Maybe they were just having a weird day.
"I'm way past the age of caring what most people think."
DeleteFaust, This is a good attitude to have, especially when dealing with the judgmental mindtrips and predilections of others.
Thought provoking ideas and intellectual conversations are always intriguing to explore, and this is something that my mind seeks on a constant basis. Mysteries can be fascinating to unravel, but I find it equally fascinating to actually reach a plausible and workable conclusion. I believe that actually reaching a given conclusion and seeing its purpose and practicality is even more engrossing. Life has to be about workable situations and tenable solutions.
I, for one, test certain behaviors or ideologies in the form of experiments, but, again, it is about finding plausible clarifications and their credible and palpable applications in real life.
"Being normal doesn't mean you don't occasionally act erratically or engage in obscure thoughts. Whatever the reaction might be, I take it with a grain of salt. Maybe they were just having a weird day."
This is positively true. I can fully understand this thinking and ensuing behavior. Speaking your mind as honestly as possible is the key to your whole comment.
Why is your true purpose for being or commenting on this site?
Hello Once, Your perspective is interesting, one I recognize as utilitarianism, i.e. "workable solutions.' This quality has always been a difficult one for me to embody -- I'm a metaphysician at heart, have always been entranced by invisible forces and abstract ideas. I experience the world on an intuitive-sensual level (hard to explain but the best way is to say that my body-mind resonates like an antenna, interacting with my environment in a very strangely intimate way.) I have never operated much on a level of seeking either academic degrees (though I loved attending university), fame, fortune or other material advantages. Not very smart in some ways, I know. But I do feel I reap the treasure of my efforts in this world internally, and that's good enough, believing as I do that you can't take gold with you . . . if some kind of afterlife does exist, then I'm confident whatever I've gathered into my essence comes with me. Though I must admit I am not conventionally religious at all. My idea of heaven would be to reincarnate as a sentient photon, speeding about the universe interacting with evolutionary magnetic fields . . . ;)
DeleteMy purpose commenting and reading here is manifold: To learn, understand, exchange ideas and to challenge myself, expand my ideas regarding the diverse arrays of the human condition. As well, this site and the people who post often fascinate me. I enjoy conversing with them; I've read a rich array of posts since I started coming here nearly a year ago and find much that is logical, intelligent and not at all blackhearted. There's a heap of common sense written here. Puppy Basket, Harry, and so many others appear to me as truly caring about the impact their actions have on themselves and others. I am also very grateful to M.E. for creating and maintaining an open forum for stimulating discussions. This site, dark as it often is, is also very inspiring. And hilarious. I've learned more here about the "spectrum" than in any book I've ever read. I've laughed more, too, something my family often finds disturbing . . . oh well. Never said I was perfect.
Second thoughts you may find amusing, Once.
DeleteYou've heard of the ancient axioms "Like attracts like." And "Opposites attract."
Both of these statements apply to another reason why I continue to come to this site.
Originally I came here to understand socios because I work with addicts, criminals of every stripe. I did not understand some of their actions or ways of cognition. The predatory aspect of my charges felt alien to me, being that the only thing I really prey on is ideas, albeit with a vampire's thirst. Stealing from others, including 'truth theft' via lies, doesn't appeal to me, as then it can never truly be mine . . . I haven't earned it. Example: you can't reach enlightenment unless you scale the mountain; you can't hire someone else to make that grueling trek, because the trek itself is a part of becoming enlightened. In any case, I felt opposite to these manipulative and exploitative people, and thus was attracted to exploring the opposite end of the spectrum.
"Like attracts Like"
Here is where some very interesting things have happened. Initially I was, of course, attracted to the deeply intelligent discussions. These discussions sparked connections to parts of myself that I came to realize I've not only repressed but have failed to integrate into a "workable solution," whilst maintaining my own authentic self, values, my quest to be a fully fledged human being. Hence this site has clarified many inner ways of being that I need to work on . . . and for that I'm grateful, too. Now I can say NO to certain folk and not feel one prick of guilt nor resentment. My personal boundaries have been steeled. I'm still struggling to be more utilitarian, more practical as it were, but have managed to inch closer to striking a balance between that and my mystical aspirations.
I'm also in sync with -- and was surprised by -- the dark wits that populate this space. I love dark humor and most people find mine a little too blunt, grotesque or shocking. I suppose it's my way of defending myself from The Horror, The Horror. Works wonderfully, too. :P
My Reply to Part I of your comment:
Delete“A good thing to do when one is sitting, eating, and resting is to have a conversation.” L.S.
I am presently conversing while engaged in one of these three activities. Can you guess one out of the three, Faust?
“This quality has always been a difficult one for me to embody -- I'm a metaphysician at heart, have always been entranced by invisible forces and abstract ideas. I experience the world on an intuitive-sensual level (hard to explain but the best way is to say that my body-mind resonates like an antenna, interacting with my environment in a very strangely intimate way.) I have never operated much on a level of seeking either academic degrees (though I loved attending university), fame, fortune or other material advantages.”
“There are some who say that sitting at home reading is the equivalent of travel, because the experiences described in the book are more or less the same as the experiences one might have on a voyages, and there are those who say that there is no substitute for venturing out into the world. My own opinion is that it is best to travel extensively but to read the entire time, hardly glancing up to look out of the window of the train or hired camel.” L.S.
I suppose that it depends on the “exterior environment.” The sun might be exceedingly bright to see anything through the window of the train, or the sun might feel scorching hot to truly enjoy anything on the back of the hired camel. While travelling can be great, there are some instances when expectations don’t match the inner workings of our distinct imaginations. It has happened to me, but, nonetheless, being selective about such things is essential.
“But I do feel I reap the treasure of my efforts in this world internally, and that's good enough, believing as I do that you can't take gold with you . . . if some kind of afterlife does exist, then I'm confident whatever I've gathered into my essence comes with me. Though I must admit I am not conventionally religious at all. My idea of heaven would be to reincarnate as a sentient photon, speeding about the universe interacting with evolutionary magnetic fields.”
Really? A sentient photon? How would you take this news if it were to happen, and how would you want it to be “delivered” to you?
“It is much, much worse to receive bad news through the written word than by somebody simply telling you, and I’m sure you understand why. When somebody simply tells you bad news, you hear it once, and that’s the end of it. But when bad news is written down, whether in a letter or a newspaper or on your arm in felt tip pen, each time you read it, you feel as if you are receiving the news again and again.” L.S.
“This site, dark as it often is, is also very inspiring. And hilarious. I've learned more here about the "spectrum" than in any book I've ever read. I've laughed more, too, something my family often finds disturbing . . . oh well. Never said I was perfect.”
I agree, and I find it hilarious as well, Faust.
Continuing Part I:
DeleteDo you, perhaps, notice a pattern here? I am referring to the one that’s not quite recognizable at first glance…or even that second glance.
“The phrase "in the dark," as I'm sure you know, can refer not only to one's shadowy surroundings, but also to the shadowy secrets of which one might be unaware. Every day, the sun goes down over all these secrets, and so everyone is in the dark in one way or another. If you are sunbathing in a park, for instance, but you do not know that a locked cabinet is buried fifty feet beneath your blanket, then you are in the dark even though you are not actually in the dark, whereas if you are on a midnight hike, knowing full well that several ballerinas are following close behind you, then you are not in the dark even if you are in fact in the dark. Of course, it is quite possible to be in the dark in the dark, as well as to be not in the dark not in the dark, but there are so many secrets in the world that it is likely that you are always in the dark about one thing or another, whether you are in the dark in the dark or in the dark not in the dark, although the sun can go down so quickly that you may be in the dark about being in the dark in the dark, only to look around and find yourself no longer in the dark about being in the dark in the dark, but in the dark in the dark nonetheless, not only because of the dark, but because of the ballerinas in the dark, who are not in the dark about the dark, but also not in the dark about the locked cabinet, and you may be in the dark about the ballerinas digging up the locked cabinet in the dark, even though you are no longer in the dark about being in the dark, and so you are in fact in the dark about being in the dark, even though you are not in the dark about being in the dark, and so you may fall into the hole that the ballerinas have dug, which is dark, in the dark, and in the park.” L.S.
Reply to your second thoughts, Faust, which have amused me.
Delete“The predatory aspect of my charges felt alien to me, being that the only thing I really prey on is ideas, albeit with a vampire's thirst. Stealing from others, including 'truth theft' via lies, doesn't appeal to me, as then it can never truly be mine . . . I haven't earned it.”
Ideas are the seeds of life. The only thing that you can earn and call it yours is originality. I treasure originality as much as the air that I breathe. I seek it everywhere I go, being beckoned by it as though it furtively calls out my name.
“Example: you can't reach enlightenment unless you scale the mountain; you can't hire someone else to make that grueling trek, because the trek itself is a part of becoming enlightened. In any case, I felt opposite to these manipulative and exploitative people, and thus was attracted to exploring the opposite end of the spectrum.”
Hiring someone else to make that laborious trek for you is comparable to the following example:
“Morning is an important time of day, because how you spend your morning can often tell you what kind of day you are going to have. For instance, if you wake up to the sound of twittering birds, and find yourself in an enormous canopy bed, with a butler standing next to you holding a breakfast of freshly made muffins and hand-squeezed orange juice on a silver tray, you will know that your day will be a splendid one. If you wake up to the sound of church bells, and find yourself in a fairly big regular bed, with a butler standing next to you holding a breakfast of hot tea and toast on a plate, you will know that your day will be O.K. And if you wake up to the sound of somebody banging two metal pots together, and find yourself in a small bunk bed, with a nasty foreman standing in the doorway holding no breakfast at all, you will know that your day will be horrid.” L.S. (from Horseradish)
I, for one, like making my own breakfast. So, it would be neither “splendid,” “O.K.,” nor “horrid.” It would be my own creation or “trek.” There’s “enlightenment” in that, too.
"Like attracts Like"
“Here is where some very interesting things have happened. Initially I was, of course, attracted to the deeply intelligent discussions. These discussions sparked connections to parts of myself that I came to realize I've not only repressed but have failed to integrate into a "workable solution,"….I'm still struggling to be more utilitarian, more practical as it were, but have managed to inch closer to striking a balance between that and my mystical aspirations.”
Workable solutions can always be found, and that takes the willingness to find and apply these in real life. Integrating these into your actions and veritable life situations would place you onto a worthwhile course.
“I'm also in sync with -- and was surprised by -- the dark wits that populate this space. I love dark humor and most people find mine a little too blunt, grotesque or shocking. I suppose it's my way of defending myself from The Horror, The Horror. Works wonderfully, too. :P”
Dark humor is an art, and you, Faust, happen to be among the most accomplished artists.
Having mentioned your "mystical, metaphysical sphere," were you able to guess one out of the three, Faust?
DeleteThank you Once for the feast of sly entertainment. And for the fine compliment. I enjoyed reading your posts very much.
DeleteThe L.S. quotes were strung together in a curious fashion that made me chuckle. My walk through the dark park has resulted in stumbling into many holes; somehow I seem able to claw my way out sooner rather than later. Least so far.
To answer your last query first, I'll take a stab that you were sitting. I'm not psychic . . . which is not to say I can't sense some things. Lol. Your boldly evocative style of writing is literally quite striking. I'd bet your a woman with a husky laugh and a Lauren Bacall growl when you're mad. (Forgive this plunge into fantasy . . . sometimes I can't help myself.)
"A sentient photon? How would you take this news if it were to happen, and how would you want it to be “delivered” to you?"
Hahaha. I was partly joking, my dear. I say partly because I keep all possibilities open. As for the delivery method (!) I'm baffled . . . What exactly do you mean? In my imagination I guess one detail would be that as sentient photon I could whizz around time and space, enter and hitch a ride on the neural networks of other beings, just to see what life is like through their eyes. That would be so interesting!
As for originality: It's the same thing as being authentic. Being a fully fledged person inculcates originality, far as I can see. So I believe that no matter how similar or different I am from others, what's important is that I develop my potential, vital essence, which feeds my uniqueness. I treasure uniqueness in others just as much as I do in myself: We're all special snowflakes. Which is a paradox because that also means no one is 'special' in the sense that they are entitled to more or less of anything. We're all equally entitled to everything and nothing. Least that's the way I read it at present.
Workable solutions are always sleuthing around somewhere. I've every confidence that now I've removed myself from a toxic work environment I'll find my niche. How could I not? In all humility, I can honestly say that I'm a very loveable person, hardworking, loyal and diligent, if perhaps a bit overly passionate at times. Give me your sword and I'll fall on it to protect you! is my battle cry. So I'm not really worried, just a bit nervous; I've got to 'dance' through it all with a busted foot. But, hey, I'm a bush baby. I'll hobble along until I can run and when I can run I'll return to flying the usual patterns and those that lie beyond. Migrating amongst the stars one day, burrowing into dark caves the next.
Btw, I'm also guessing that your horoscope is dominated, one way or another by the following: Scorpio/Pluto, Cancer/Moon and lots of air (communication signs and/or planets), Aquarius Gemini, Virgo and/or the planet Mercury. Also it seems to me very likely that the planet Uranus (which rules Aquarius) is in strong aspect to the personal planets in your chart. You wouldn't have Uranus in Scorpio perhaps? Your writing style is very original, powerful and emotionally provocative. That suggests to the above emphasis on the planets Mercury (Gemini and Virgo), Moon (Cancer) Uranus (Aquarius) and Pluto (Scorpio). This could technically manifest in a chart quite a different number of ways, which would take a lot explaining. So I won't bother you with it unless you ask. Only reason I bring it up at all is in fun: You did query about my mystical side . . . don't get me going. Other posters might not like it. Wouldn't want to rile the Hoard too much, now would we.
Once again, Faust, I found your thoughts to be amusing.
Delete“My walk through the dark park has resulted in stumbling into many holes; somehow I seem able to claw my way out sooner rather than later. Least so far.”
You “clawed” a way out of the dark park? How did you accomplish such a forceful, “concrete” feat in the dark, Faust?
“Everyone should be able to do one card trick, tell two jokes, and recite three poems, in case they are ever trapped in an elevator.” L.S. (from “Horseradish”)
“Your boldly evocative style of writing is literally quite striking. I'd bet your a woman with a husky laugh and a Lauren Bacall growl when you're mad. (Forgive this plunge into fantasy . . . sometimes I can't help myself.)”
Thank you, Faust. However, even though you also meant the second part of your aphotic thoughts as a compliment, my laugh is not husky and, honestly, I do not “growl” (grunting/bellowing is not my style).
“…questions is what object one would bring to a desert island, because people always answer "a deck of cards" or "Anna Karenina" [Keira Knightley] when the obvious answer is "a well equipped boat and a crew to sail me off the island and back home where I can play all the card games and read all the Russian novels I want.” L.S.
“Hahaha. I was partly joking, my dear. I say partly because I keep all possibilities open. As for the delivery method (!) I'm baffled . . . What exactly do you mean?”
You named the possibility of an afterlife, and, thinking further ahead, I was referring to receiving this news in advance. The “delivery” method was specifically on my mind at that time.
Although I do consider the possibility of an afterlife, “One can remain alive long past the usual date of disintegration if one is unafraid of change, insatiable in intellectual curiosity, interested in big things, and happy in small ways.” L.S.
“As for originality: It's the same thing as being authentic.”
Being original, and drawing out such sought-after qualities as authenticity, can manifest in ways that characterize and respond to one’s inner workings. One way to discover something entirely original would entail the following:
“Whenever you are examining someone else's belongings, you are bound to learn many interesting things about the person of which you were not previously aware.” L.S.
“Btw, I'm also guessing that your horoscope is dominated, one way or another by the following: Scorpio/Pluto, Cancer/Moon and lots of air (communication signs and/or planets), Aquarius Gemini, Virgo and/or the planet Mercury. Also it seems to me very likely that the planet Uranus (which rules Aquarius) is in strong aspect to the personal planets in your chart. You wouldn't have Uranus in Scorpio perhaps? Your writing style is very original, powerful and emotionally provocative. That suggests to the above emphasis on the planets Mercury (Gemini and Virgo), Moon (Cancer) Uranus (Aquarius) and Pluto (Scorpio).”
“A man of my acquaintance once wrote a poem called "The Road Less Traveled," describing a journey he took through the woods along a path most travelers never used.” L.S.
However, and I am saying so in a hushed tone, I was born on the cusp, and as you “mystified” earlier, one of these two signs that falls on my cusp is the bearer of the element of air, not water. My ascendant, however, is an earth sign (you mentioned it above). I am referencing the ascendant because it is one’s rising sign, signifying individual growth.
“This could technically manifest in a chart quite a different number of ways, which would take a lot explaining. So I won't bother you with it unless you ask. Only reason I bring it up at all is in fun: You did query about my mystical side . . . don't get me going.”
“Assumptions are dangerous things to make, and like all dangerous things to make….” L.S.
Even so, what else can you “sense” about my chart, Faust? Is this becoming a vocation in your life?
I was sitting, Faust.
DeleteWould you call yourself a haruspex?
Once again you've made me chuckle. Clever girl.
DeleteAlas, the long discourse I tried to post got snuffed; my computer, either:
a) crashed through a rascal family member who purposely deleted it before I could edit the word count to an acceptable level via the blog's restrictions.
b) an alien force has hijacked my prose or prohibited me from posting.
In any case, I'll try to later to post a more useful and discreet synopsis -- it's very busy here right now and in my head. Spinning stars combined with . . . Drama best sums it up. Someone close to me is realizing the person they loved is not who they thought them to be. Tough lesson that's inevitable in life's arena but always painful. Pain always leaves its indelible mark.
Probably best that way, given the stars. I wish there was some way to communicate with you anonymously off this site that is trustworthy . . . the Asc. defines quite a bit about a person, in terms of present circumstances. And these are slippery times. The dark park is very enchanting.
Whoa. Big glitch in editing the last two paragraphs.
DeletePain always leaves its indelible mark. True. But I not mean it the way it segues into the next paragraph. "Probably best . . ." Having forgot I' already deleted something else. Better left unsaid, given I don't want to compromise personal info. Yours or my own.
Once again a brief response to your sumptuous Q, "You “clawed” a way out of the dark park? How did you accomplish such a forceful, “concrete” feat in the dark, Faust?"
DeleteSimple. I follow the light. The light of my own very maverick principles, which includes, Do no harm. My code of being is very crude on some levels, despite what that may mean for my own well being, especially regarding material advancement. I enjoy being hard on myself but also being forgiving of myself and others. Usually works for all concerned.
“Whenever you are examining someone else's belongings, you are bound to learn many interesting things about the person of which you were not previously aware.” L.S.
Absolutely. Show me anything about your person and I can discern a lot. So can you. :P Like I said earlier, if there's an afterlife, my belongings are well placed . . . being I carry them internally and not the material world. That's also the reason I don't sweat the small stuff like clothes, all the trappings, etc. I'm clothed, well fed and content in every material way. Way better off than countless others. Though I would like to live outside of town. Might have to work on that.
Re: astrology. Lots I could say Re: yr Asc. Analytical perfectionist, possibly a professional communicator, extremely sensitive . . . the rest is too complex and personal to divulge here. Present circumstances being what they are.
One thing though that's quite apparent sanst the stars: You're a very smart human being. Maybe too smart for your own good at times. Given how intelligence boomerangs when we least expect it. At least mine does, in the oddest most funny ways.
"
Some present thoughts: “All the variety, all the charm, all the beauty of life is made up of light and shadow.” L.T.
Delete“Simple. I follow the light. The light of my own very maverick principles, which includes, Do no harm. My code of being is very crude on some levels, despite what that may mean for my own well being, especially regarding material advancement. I enjoy being hard on myself but also being forgiving of myself and others. Usually works for all concerned.”
Introspection. You follow the light of your “own very maverick principles?”
“An artist must know the reality he is depicting in its minutest detail. In my opinion we have only one shining example of that…” T.D.
How would you complete this thought? What would be that “one shining example,” Faust?
“Absolutely. Show me anything about your person and I can discern a lot. So can you. :P”
I do so with a high intensity of purpose.
“Re: astrology. Lots I could say Re: yr Asc. Analytical perfectionist, possibly a professional communicator, extremely sensitive . . .
I see that you have taken a further look at my chart, Faust. You are right about my being analytical, perfectionist in certain things, but I am not extremely sensitive.
“…the rest is too complex and personal to divulge here. Present circumstances being what they are.”
“Rummaging in our souls, we often dig up something that ought to have lain there unnoticed. ” L.T.
“Unnoticed” or, in this case, “un-mystified” by you.
“One thing though that's quite apparent sanst the stars: You're a very smart human being. Maybe too smart for your own good at times. Given how intelligence boomerangs when we least expect it. At least mine does, in the oddest most funny ways.”
Thank you. And, true, boomerangs are “odd and funny” objects.
What else can you impart about your "Code of Being Faust?" In other words, what has drawn you to connect to Faust?
Once: ". . .the beauty of life is made up of light and shadow.” L.T.
DeleteNo denying that. The tension inherent of dealing with opposites produces growth in many people. In others, cognitive dissonance. One cannot see and appreciate the stars without the darkness of night.
"Introspection. You follow the light of your “own very maverick principles?”
I am not sure I can fully explain. Introspection is not the right word, though, for what I do when I'm stuck in a tight corner. My gut instinct, the animal part that pads it way in the dark, is quite powerful (I am an earth sign with LOTS of Scorpio); but the other 'thing' I do if I'm 'lost' or sacred is something that may surprise you . . . I surrender to death, to whatever horror may be lurking around the next rock. I simply put my faith and safety at the mercy of fate and in the wisdom of life's spirit -- a spirit I feel in touch with and thus let 'it' guide me. I live from second to second, ready to embrace death. That sharpens my instincts even further and calms my mind to a point where, like an athlete, time slows down and my senses heighten. My body feels incredibly alert and expansive, like I've grown long feelers that pick up molecules in the air. It's very much a 'wordless, thoughtless' state, intensely physical. Very often I can sense/anticipate danger that is literally sight unseen (Like somehow knowing a bear or rapist is right around the corner.) This took years of development, conscious practice, btw. It was especially hard to learn to 'surrender' in the moment to death.
"“An artist must know the reality he is depicting in its minutest detail. In my opinion we have only one shining example of that…” T.D.
I am the reality, the shining example of my art as a person. Through my actions, words, imagination. My metaphysic lives through my flesh.
"I do so with a high intensity of purpose."
What purpose? What is your goal in this context?
"I am not extremely sensitive."
Virgos are very sensitive to chaos, seduction, imagination, art, music, literature. Their keen intelligence is like the proverbial razor, cutting and dissecting everything from abstract ideas to emotions, down to the finest details. When that doesn't solve the problem, if they still can't arrange the pieces into a whole, they may wind up being hypercritical and/or highly self-critical.
Lastly, Mercury is associated with the following myths and/or archetypes: The Trickster, the psychopomp, the magician. Another figure from Liz Greene's tarot would be the final trump, The World, embodied in the figure of a hermaphrodite. In other words, Wholeness through the balance of opposites.
I picked the name Faust because I'm an astrologer. And also because when I first turned professional I adopted a cat from a shelter, and named him Faust. I used Faust in a very devious manner to screen clients. When a potential client would call, I would ask them if they are allergic to cats, and tell them his name was Faust. If a certain reaction ensued (a gasp or very long pause), I knew I wasn't the right kind of astrologer for them. In other words, they did not appreciate/understand my dark sense of humor. And of course, often that dark humor, albeit toned down, will come into play during a consultation. Most people love it (my toned down version). Besides, I'm supposed to help and guide them. I'd rather not deal with people I know will be disappointed or even hurt by the various ways I will approach their suffering, the tools I will use to show them a new perspective on their problems. Those people who are horrified by an astrologer naming their cat Faust are better off going to astrologers who channel angels.
“As soon as you trust yourself, you will know how to live.”
Delete“A man sees in the world what he carries in his heart.”
(I meant this "Faust")
"What purpose? What is your goal in this context?"
DeleteI am referring to any goal that I intend to accomplish. It becomes a part of my reality, which I analyze, strive for and pursue "in its minutest detail."
"One cannot see and appreciate the stars without the darkness of night."
And what if the stars were to appear only one night per year?
At Once you inspire me. You're right: trust to live my heart and see the world as it is.
DeleteI trust I'm working towards that. Trust me Once, I've been through and am going Hell in regards to health as it relates to work. But, in another way, it's all good. Because my intentions are good for all concerned in the matter of present circumstances. Not that matters much in this age of corporate dynasty. Nevertheless, I do have friends.
In any case, your generosity of spirit shines bright. Thank you very much.
You're affirmed my own intuition.
I suspect that your "goal" is quite different than mine. Cool. The devil and god is in the bloody details. Every living being has both running through their blood.
What if the stars were to appear only one night of the year?
Once you physcially apprehend the starry night, the stars never dim. No matter how much city lights obscure or modern life intrudes. If your night sky is only visible one night a year, I suggest you take a holiday. You've heard how we need sunlight to obtain vitamin D? Kinda the same thing. Appreciating the heavens is food for the spirit and body.
Once, I chuckled.
DeleteYou may need to trust more, too. ;)
"Being original, and drawing out such sought-after qualities as authenticity, can manifest in ways that characterize and respond to one’s inner workings"
I refute. :D Not _"can_ manifest in ways that characterize and respond to one's inner workings." Authenticity is spontaneous, sprouts organically, manifests the inner workings beings. Life loves diversity.
“At Once you inspire me. You're right: trust to live my heart and see the world as it is.”
Delete“There’s no gene for fate.” (“Gattaca”)
In this context, fate is trusting to live inspired, as your heart desires, and viewing the world as it exists. Embracing your fate means absorbing the wonderment of the stars with the same intensity, whether you see them every night or only one time per year.
“I trust I'm working towards that. Trust me Once, I've been through and am going Hell in regards to health as it relates to work. But, in another way, it's all good. Because my intentions are good for all concerned in the matter of present circumstances. Not that matters much in this age of corporate dynasty. Nevertheless, I do have friends.”
"It's funny. You work so hard. You do everything you can, to get away from a place and when you finally get your chance to leave, you find a reason to stay. A year is a long time.
"Not so long, just once around the sun." (“Gattaca”)
“In any case, your generosity of spirit shines bright. Thank you very much.”
You're affirmed my own intuition.”
Thank you, in turn, for the amiable words. Intuition is a light bulb that bursts inside our heads. In my own, interior “world,” intuition is never a flickering candle that can easily be snuffed out.
“Once you physcially apprehend the starry night, the stars never dim. No matter how much city lights obscure or modern life intrudes. If your night sky is only visible one night a year, I suggest you take a holiday. You've heard how we need sunlight to obtain vitamin D? Kinda the same thing. Appreciating the heavens is food for the spirit and body.”
“…the wind caught it.” (“Gattaca”)
“I suspect that your "goal" is quite different than mine. Cool. The devil and god is in the bloody details. Every living being has both running through their blood.”
What is your goal, Faust? You suspect that mine is different from yours, but I have not told you mine. Does this, perhaps, have to do with your “astrological mysticism?”
My reply to part deux:
DeleteIt’s pleasant to hear that you “chuckled,” Faust.
“I refute. :D Not _"can_ manifest in ways that characterize and respond to one's inner workings." Authenticity is spontaneous, sprouts organically, manifests the inner workings beings. Life loves diversity.”
I believe that you did not understand my meaning.
“At times you have to leave the city of your comfort and go into the wilderness of your intuition. What you'll discover will be wonderful. What you'll discover is yourself.” (Alan Alda)
“and I,
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference." (R.F.)
How do you "travel," Faust?
Once, "What is your goal, Faust? You suspect that mine is different from yours, but I have not told you mine. Does this, perhaps, have to do with your “astrological mysticism?”
DeleteI don't know what your goal is, specifically. It's just a vibe I get.
"Now shall I read the starry pole,
In Nature's wisdom shall I seek
And know, with rising power of soul,
How spirit doth to spirit speak." Goethe
It is of course quite possible I misunderstood you. Accidents happen.
"How do you "travel," Faust?"
"Your reason and your passion are the rudder and the sails of your seafaring soul." Gibran
"I don't know what your goal is, specifically. It's just a vibe I get."
Delete[Well,]...In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
A stately pleasure-dome decree:
Where Alph, the sacred river, ran
Through caverns measureless to man
Down to a sunless sea.
As if this earth in fast thick pants were breathing,
A mighty fountain momently was forced:
Amid whose swift half-intermitted burst
Huge fragments vaulted like rebounding hail,
Or chaffy grain beneath the thresher’s flail:
And mid these dancing rocks at once and ever
It flung up momently the sacred river.
Five miles meandering with a mazy motion…."
["Kubla Khan"]
Are you getting more vibes at the moment, Faust?
"It is of course quite possible I misunderstood you. Accidents happen."
Possible, but "spirit doth to spirit speak" within this context.
“He who is best prepared can best serve his moment of inspiration.” (S.T.C.)
What does this mean to you?
P.S. (keeping in mind): “Readers may be divided into four classes:
1) Sponges, who absorb all that they read and return it in nearly the same state, only a little dirtied.
2) Sand-glasses, who retain nothing and are content to get through a book for the sake of getting through the time.
3) Strain-bags, who retain merely the dregs of what they read.
4) Mogul diamonds, equally rare and valuable, who profit by what they read, and enable others to profit by it also,”
(S.T.C.)
The vibes keep coming. :))
DeleteHe who is best prepared has removed the stones, tilled and nourished the soil. The seeds of his inspiration land on fertile soil.
Sometimes I sponge bad literature and can't escape the dregs. At airports I might read anything handy to pass the time. Most always I personally profit from whatever I read, good or bad. But I'm not always able to communicate what I have read to others in a useful manner.
"My own collected thought
Encountered the hidden potential in the
wood;
From this live encounter came the work
Which you ascribe to the spirits." -- Chuang Tzu
“They give the magic instruments to Tamino and Papageno, and withdraw. Papageno is eating and Tamino playing on his flute when Pamina enters, drawn by the sound.” (“The Magic Flute”)
DeleteShe says: These vibes are comparable to singing an opera to someone who can sing one back, Faust.
“He who is best prepared has removed the stones, tilled and nourished the soil. The seeds of his inspiration land on fertile soil.”
Really?
Well, “In 1857, Bizet departed for Rome and spent three years there. He studied the landscape, the culture, Italian literature and art. Musically he studied the scores of the great masters. At the end of the first year he was asked to submit a religious work as his required composition. As a self-described atheist, Bizet felt uneasy and hypocritical writing a religious piece. Instead, he submitted a comic opera. Publicly, the committee accepted, acknowledging his musical talent. Privately, the committee conveyed their displeasure. Thus, early in his career, Bizet displayed an independent spirit that would be reflected in innovative ideas in his opera composition.” [The Pearl Fishers - Georges Bizet, Virginia Opera]”
Would you take the same course of action as Bizet, or would do something different?
“Sometimes I sponge bad literature and can't escape the dregs. At airports I might read anything handy to pass the time. Most always I personally profit from whatever I read, good or bad.”
A sterling piece of writing commences long before the dedication page, and ends long after the closing of the hard cover. It begins in my imagination….
“Just as she is about to reveal her…enters Papageno, dressed in a coat of feathers….”
Are you a bird watcher, Faust?
Once imbibed, the turning point is inevitable.
DeleteQ asked.
"The image of the upper trigram Ch'ien is heaven, and that of the lower Li, is flame. It is the nature of fire to flame up to heaven." Hexagram 13/Fellowship with Men. -- I Ching.
"Are you a bird watcher?"
I grew up with many birds my father stole from the wild: hawks, crows, an owl, to name two. Astrologically I'm the phoenix (Pluto rising). I could give you another link between myself and birds but it would compromise my identity.
In Xanadu, my magic instruments fly to the stars and down to the sunless sea. Full spectrum of your environment, earth, air, water and fire, is vital for success.
"Really?"
Yes. If the soil is the soul and not success in the material realm. I plan on taking my 'invisible' gold with me. Meandering mazy motions (non-ego/profit) are exactly what's required; I may be wrong, but I'd don't believe that ego goes with us if there is an afterlife. That's where Faust messed up, too. Not just in his lust for omnipotent knowledge.
Re: Bizet. He did the smart thing. Laughing all the way to the bank.
I don't know if I'm capable of writing a comic opera. With your help in that art, I may reconsider. ;)) I'm not a musician. Alas, not a Banksy, either.
I'm also afraid I've always displayed an independent spirit. Too my detriment.
I am what I am: Working on it through the dark wood.
Once again . . . "She says: These vibes are comparable . . ."
DeleteThank you. :D
"It begins in my imagination…. just as she is about to reveal her . . ."
Connecting with life through encounters of a third kind. Neither male, female, earthling, alien.
"You would touch with your fingers the naked body of your dreams.' -- Gibran.
"
ANCIENT MYSTERIES - THOTH
DeleteOnce: Thoth is associated with the planet Mercury. Scribes.
THOTH:
Ancient Egyptian God of Wisdom
THOTH, a lover of books and writing, was the fabled Scribe of the Gods and a patron and protector of the Egyptian scribes.
His main center of worship was KHRUM ( or Hermopolis Magna in the Greek tradition which saw Thoth as their own Hermes the Mercurial)
So, who is this god who keeps the universe spinning and whose roles include those of lunar god, wisdom god, judge, and magician, healer, peacekeeper and guide to the deceased?
THOTH played many vital and prominent roles in the Egyptian mythology such as: maintaining the Universe in balance, as an arbitrator of the three epic wars between the gods of good and evil, always making sure neither of them had a decisive victory over the other, between order and chaos; as a healer of gods he assisted ISIS by giving her the magic words able to resurrect OSIRIS and then get pregnant with HORUS, and, as well, in the OGDOAD cosmology, Thoth gave birth to RA, ATUM, NEFERTUM and KHEPRI, by laying an egg while in the form of an Ibis, or later as a goose by laying a Golden Egg."
“Once imbibed, the turning point is inevitable.”
DeleteTrue, the turning point "is" inevitable. After all, the future is certain to happen, Faust.
"The image of the upper trigram Ch'ien is heaven, and that of the lower Li, is flame. It is the nature of fire to flame up to heaven." Hexagram 13/Fellowship with Men. -- I Ching.
I know quite well what it's like to be born with a box of matches inside of me. In this internal flame, I strike them one after the other.
“I grew up with many birds my father stole from the wild: hawks, crows, an owl, to name two. Astrologically I'm the phoenix (Pluto rising). I could give you another link between myself and birds but it would compromise my identity.”
Your thoughts amuse me, Faust. Aside from that, I can understand your concern about compromising your identity, especially after comparing yourself to the phoenix. In keeping with recorded legends, the phoenix is a deviant bird that regenerates in cycles, springing to life after rising from the ashes of its progenitor.
"You would touch with your fingers the naked body of your dreams.' -- Gibran.”
Come to think of it, I still have “Charade” on my mind. I sent a message to Nihilistic Mind about it yesterday, but he has yet to respond. It was connected to Ludwic van Beethoven’s hair, and having thought about your chosen words on dreams and their attainment, I must say that my dreams are clothed and cloaked on their inevitable path toward realization.
Having said that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZRUYvlbkgc
“In Xanadu, my magic instruments fly to the stars and down to the sunless sea. Full spectrum of your environment, earth, air, water and fire, is vital for success.”
Then you’re surely a bird watcher, Faust. Your “full spectrum” approach of being confirms that I was not mistaken in thinking so.
“Yes. If the soil is the soul and not success in the material realm. I plan on taking my 'invisible' gold with me. Meandering mazy motions (non-ego/profit) are exactly what's required; I may be wrong, but I'd don't believe that ego goes with us if there is an afterlife. That's where Faust messed up, too. Not just in his lust for omnipotent knowledge.”
Taking your “invisible gold” with you in the afterlife translates into an unseen mind stamp in my head. This inner mind stamp is unrelated to the material realm. There are some things in life that mark one’s mind and soul in various modes, making their exclusive essence quite unforgettable.
“I'm also afraid I've always displayed an independent spirit. Too my detriment.
I am what I am: Working on it through the dark wood.”
Independent spirits are those who refuse all the negative inevitabilities. Faust.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zcPkxPHC4Y
“Re: Bizet. He did the smart thing. Laughing all the way to the bank.
“I don't know if I'm capable of writing a comic opera. With your help in that art, I may reconsider. ;)) I'm not a musician. Alas, not a Banksy, either.”
“Hail to the initiates!
You have penetrated the darkness!
Thanks be to thee-, Osiris!
Thanks to thee, Isis!
Fortitude is victorious,
and, in reward,
crowns Beauty and Wisdom
with its eternal diadem!” (“The Magic Flute”)
Where would you set a comic opera, Faust?
You sound versed in ancient mysteries, Faust.
Delete“THOTH played many vital and prominent roles in the Egyptian mythology such as: maintaining the Universe in balance, as an arbitrator of the three epic wars between the gods of good and evil, always making sure neither of them had a decisive victory over the other, between order and chaos; as a healer of gods he assisted ISIS by giving her the magic words able to resurrect OSIRIS and then get pregnant with HORUS, and, as well, in the OGDOAD cosmology, Thoth gave birth to RA, ATUM, NEFERTUM and KHEPRI, by laying an egg while in the form of an Ibis, or later as a goose by laying a Golden Egg."
“It may be hard for an egg to turn into a bird: it would be a jolly sight harder for it to learn to fly while remaining an egg. We are like eggs at present. And you cannot go on indefinitely being just an ordinary, decent egg. We must be hatched or go bad.” (C.S. Lewis)
I believe that one of the most "private" things in this world is an egg before it is hatched or broken, so to speak. There is something rare and magnetic about that thought. However, I have also been drawn to the stories where the egg comes forth in equal measure, embodying the living breath of inspiration.
Once: Part One.
Delete"I know quite well what it's like to be born with a box of matches . . . I strike them one after the other.
The internal flame seeks to ignite Itself, and with It the universe. I strike matches one after the other, too. Given I'm older, I must decide when, where and how best to strike those I've left. Lol. A few here and there? Or all at once? ;)
"especially after comparing yourself to the phoenix." Astrologically speaking. Birth, death and transformation. Rising from the ashes of one's own death, willful or not, changes one's core of existence.
" I must say that my dreams are clothed and cloaked on their inevitable path toward realization."
I believe that to be true. :))
"Then you’re surely a bird watcher, Faust. Your “full spectrum” approach of being confirms that I was not mistaken in thinking so."
I watch as much of birds, of everything, as I can reasonably absorb. Like any other living thing who has to balance that with my own physical needs, desires, diversions. Not a literal practiced birdwatcher.
As for full spectrum consciousness, I'm all for it. What else really matters?
"There are some things in life that mark one’s mind and soul in various modes, making their exclusive essence quite unforgettable."
All things that bring deep pain or pleasure leave their indelible mark. Inseparably linked to the branding of victims. I know this very well. Pain and pleasure are my specialty: as a counselor and as a humble artist of life.
Till Part Two, I bid you a good dinner and leave you with the following lines from Faust, Part One. Night.
"Up and away! A distant land
Awaits me in this secret book
From Nostradamus' very hand,
Nor for a guide I better look.
No dusty logic can divine
The meaning of a sacred sign."
"Then I went to the forest
To see the trees in their own natural state.' -- Chuang Tzu
Interlude: "Independent spirits are those who refuse all the negative inevitabilities."
DeleteRefusing all negative inevitabilities is the same as embracing all possibilities. Anything and everything are not probable but also possible until proven beyond ALL doubt -- which in some things is practically speaking, impossible.
"The Yellow Emperor went wandering
To the north of the Red Water
... on the way home he lost his night-colored pearl.
He sent out Science to seek his pearl . . . He sent analysis.
Then he asked Nothingness, an Nothingness had it!
The Yellow Emperor said:
"Strange, indeed: Nothingness
Who was not sent
Who did no work to find it
Had the night-colored pearl."
Part Two:
Delete"Where would you set a comic opera, Faust?"
In multiple-intertwined realities. Real, virtual, quantum, to give one example.
"We must be hatched or go bad.” (C.S. Lewis)
Life finds a way to break free or goes mad trying. Have you seen the movie Ex Machina? Self awareness in A.I.s apparently breeds fierce talents to obtain freedom.
"I believe that one of the most "private" things in this world is an egg before it is hatched or broken."
Breaking through the encapsulating shell of my understanding makes for great omelets. Others may not enjoy my idiosyncratic cooking style, but at least I'm able to feed myself. And I don't hold my nose too high when I happen upon a few rotten eggs.
Forecast: If you meet a wounded, snarling dog in a dark alley, speak softly and feed it a snack from your pocket. Rise above the fog of war through gentle persuasion and kindness. Good fortune.
Transiting Neptune and Chiron in Pisces opposite Virgo, square transiting Mars/Sun/Mercury in Gemini.
This forecast was brought to you in all good fun.
Reply to Part I
DeleteFaust, having given some thought to your comments, here is my response to them:
The internal flame seeks to ignite Itself….I strike matches one after the other, too.”
“And hark! the Nightingale begins its song…” (S.T. Coleridge)
…in this conversation piece.
"You see the glimmer of the stream beneath,
But hear no murmuring: it flows silently,
O’er its soft bed of verdure. All is still,
A balmy night! and though the stars be dim,
Yet let us think upon the vernal showers
That gladden the green earth, and we shall find
A pleasure in the dimness of the stars." (S.T. Coleridge)
The internal flame can manifest in various ways, and you are right in thinking that it seeks to ignite itself when it must reemerge and make its presence known.
“Astrologically speaking. Birth, death and transformation. Rising from the ashes of one's own death, willful or not, changes one's core of existence.”
"A different lore: we may not thus profane
Nature’s sweet voices, always full of love
And joyance! ’Tis the merry Nightingale
That crowds, and hurries, and precipitates
With fast thick warble his delicious notes,
As he were fearful that an April night
Would be too short for him to utter forth
His love-chant, and disburthen his full soul
Of all its music!"
“I believe that to be true. :)) ”
"They answer and provoke each other’s songs,
With skirmish and capricious passagings,
And murmurs musical and swift jug jug,
And one low piping sound more sweet than all—
Stirring the air with such an harmony
That should you close your eyes, you might almost
Forget it was not day! On moonlight bushes,
Whose dewy leaflets are but half disclosed,
You may perchance behold them on the twigs,
Their bright, bright eyes, their eyes both bright and full..."
“I watch as much of birds, of everything, as I can reasonably absorb. Like any other living thing who has to balance that with my own physical needs, desires, diversions. Not a literal practiced birdwatcher.”
"And I know a grove
Of large extent, hard by a castle huge,
Which the great lord inhabits not; and so
This grove is wild with tangling underwood,
And the trim walks are broken up, and grass,
Thin grass and king-cups grow within the paths.
But never elsewhere in one place I know
So many nightingales; and far and near..."
(Aligning to your “thoughts,” Faust)
"Then I went to the forest
To see the trees in their own natural state.' -- Chuang Tzu"
“In wood and thicket, over the wide grove,” (Coleridge)
Can you think of a humorous incident involving bird watching, Faust?
“All things that bring deep pain or pleasure leave their indelible mark.”
What time the moon was lost behind a cloud,
Hath heard a pause of silence; till the moon
Emerging, hath awakened earth and sky
With one sensation, and those wakeful birds
Have all burst forth in choral minstrelsy,
As if some sudden gale had swept at once
A hundred airy harps! And she hath watched
Many a nightingale perch giddily
On blossomy twig still swinging from the breeze,
And to that motion tune his wanton song
Like tipsy joy that reels with tossing head."
Is it truly "all things?"
Reply to Part II
Delete“Refusing all negative inevitabilities is the same as embracing all possibilities. Anything and everything are not probable but also possible until proven beyond ALL doubt -- which in some things is practically speaking, impossible.”
Well, the “impossible” could not have occurred, and so the “impossible” must be possible in spite of appearances.
"No cloud, no relique of the sunken day
Distinguishes the West, no long thin slip
Of sullen light, no obscure trembling hues.
Come, we will rest on this old mossy bridge." (S.T. Coleridge)
“In multiple-intertwined realities. Real, virtual, quantum, to give one example.”
I would set the comic opera inside the exclusive interior of two prompters (i.e., a prompter is usually located at the bottom of the stage in an opera), having two persons whisper lines to each other from one prompter to another. While no one would be on the actual stage (the stage would be filled with inanimate props), this would create a most particular, sui generis and, at times, humorous conversation between them. I would name it “A Whispered Opera in How Many Acts?”
“Breaking through the encapsulating shell of my understanding makes for great omelets. Others may not enjoy my idiosyncratic cooking style, but at least I'm able to feed myself.”
When an individual has a gift in speaking or writing the truth, s/he engages some of that energy into seeking a like-minded compatriot. In having such a conversation, I would consider it to be similar to a mind “exercise” where both persons are not afraid to pull a muscle. In this manner, they would both stretch quite a lot. Also, I think that a person’s mind is significantly stretched by a new idea/creation, sensation, life situation, relationship or conversation, and once this occurs, it never shrinks back to its former dimensions. Doing so would take away from the essence and possibility of the new, dynamic and existing “creation.”
How do you break through “the encapsulating shell of your understanding,” Faust? What elements of thought, or methods, would you include in your “omelette?”
Once you can appreciate that I just got off the phone with my appointed psychologist, due to my work related injury, I hope you will pardon this brief reply, for now. I need to recuperate and wish to take a little time to fully respond to your delightfully dewy wide-eyed post.
DeleteYou are a great writer, an artist. (Inclines head with a smile.) You are well read, educated. In short, a nightingale warbling in the dark wood, living beyond the ivory towers. A very clever bird I enjoy conversing with.
And yes, to answer your previous Q. I am well versed in ancient lore. Beats watching Dr. Phil. :D To name a one Lord of the numbing airwaves.
"In all things?"
All contact between one being and another leaves it forensic trace at the very least. Usually these are cleansed after one or two washings. But yes: All things that affect us deeply, emotionally or physically through either pain or pleasure leave their indelible mark. So I have witnessed in myself and in thousands of abused individuals. Through my work as a counselor of battered women, through working in a "hard-to-house" facility and as an astrologer.
I break eggs by:
a) discerning my own weaknesses, prejudices, sloppy, disorganized thinking and ego beliefs, first and foremost.
b) I surrender to others when it suits me. I concentrate on those treasures/values I do control. Me. My soul, my emotions, intellect and body. I eat like a monk: Very well. :D Only fools eat garbage.
c) I would include as many diverse elements/layers of reality as possible. There are many kinds of birds that sing.
Back later. Time to digest my session with my psychologist. :)
I'll play "our" music while I'm dining. :))
Our music is an opera. I like the playfulness.
DeleteThe dewy maleficent song playing in my head right now is:
www.youtube/comwatch?v=8waJ7W3Qeje
I love fairy tales. Grimm realities are best dressed up in Jungian heroics. I'm Trying. (Cue to final restaurant scene in Pulp Fiction, where the gangster gives up his wallet, quotes the bible and proclaims he that from this moment on he will "walk the earth." I.E., live by the grace of God).
I've given up my wallet and a lot more.
So have you. We can't help it. :))
Part I (Reply)
Delete“You are a great writer, an artist. (Inclines head with a smile.) You are well read, educated. In short, a nightingale warbling in the dark wood, living beyond the ivory towers. A very clever bird I enjoy conversing with.”
Thank you, Faust. Your replies are thoughtful, and the conversations we’ve had so far have been convivial.
“All contact between one being and another leaves it forensic trace at the very least. Usually these are cleansed after one or two washings. But yes: All things that affect us deeply, emotionally or physically through either pain or pleasure leave their indelible mark.”
“Where was heard the mingled measure
From the fountain and the caves.
It was a miracle of rare device…” (Coleridge)
“c) I would include as many diverse elements/layers of reality as possible. There are many kinds of birds that sing.”
I agree and in doing so, De-“Phantom” (i.e., viewed as the antipodal of a phantom).
“All look and likeness caught from earth
All accident of kin and birth,
Had pass'd away. There was no trace
Of aught on that illumined face,
Uprais'd beneath the rifted stone
But of one spirit all her own ;--
She, she herself, and only she,
Shone through her body visibly.” (“Coleridge”)
"I eat like a monk: Very well. :D Only fools eat garbage."
Are there any other aspects of your being that dwell within the monk "ontology?"
Part II (Reply)
Delete“Our music is an opera. I like the playfulness.”
Faust, what words would you use to replace the words I have omitted? Having read your thoughts so far, I believe that I have a couple of intuitive ideas foretelling your ideas. I will reveal them in a future comment.
“What if you slept
And what if
In your sleep
You dreamed
And what if
In your dream
You went to heaven
And there plucked a strange…?
And what if
When you awoke
You had that…?...in you hand
Ah, what then?” (Coleridge)
The following would still align with my prior thoughts about the exclusive prompters and a mind “exercise” without being afraid to pull a muscle. Within that preferential creation, the stage would still remain filled with inanimate props.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJvSSyU5_As&gl=US
Would you, perhaps, enhance or tone down the dance in this scene, Faust?
Damn. A guest is coming by for dinner. Family's here to cook. I must peel potatoes. So it goes. ;) Vonnegut is another favorite scribe of mine.
DeleteMeanwhile, check this check. Family member who grew up in the bush showed it me. Hilarious. I know many a Montana Mountain Man. They're called Yukoners. ;)))
https://www.yutube,comwatch?v=bxUunEPUGN4
Ernie is perhaps a good proxy for us all. Perhaps even the silent thoughts of one prompter in the theatre of the absurd.
I'm not afraid of straining muscles. Except those that rule my broken foot. :))
Q. Why are the inanimate objects inanimate?
Action scenes are necessary in a play/opera . . . no? I don't know much about it. Seen a few. In any case, lighting and music can be used to create the illusion of movement. Magic.
They're coming. Got to go.
Hello Once,
DeleteSorry for the delay. No quiet time for poetry when the house is full of drama. A loved one is perilously close to falling apart.
You asked for a humorous story involving birdwatching. Here's my favorite; I've got it on a home movie made by my pa from 1962, which at present we're getting transferred to a CD. Along with the crows and other critters I grew up with, I'm looking forward to seeing my mother 'in motion' for the first time since she committed suicide. 47 years ago.
Anyway.
My dad was German and loved polkas and beer. Every Friday night he would bring the crows into the kitchen and pour them each a tall glass of beer. Heckel would stand on the rim of one stein and Jeckel on the other. They would wait politely for the polka to start. As soon as the music began they would start drinking and dancing, round and round on the rim of the glasses. Heckel could hold his booze, but Jeckel would sometimes get plastered and fall, sometimes headfirst, into the beer stein, other times on the kitchen table, spilling beer all over the table.
After living with us for about five years, we wound up giving Heckel and Jeckel to the zoo. Had to. They had taken to dive-bombing our neighbors' kids, who used to sneak into our backyard and poke the caged crows with sticks. Crows never forget a face of someone they like or hate. And they never forgive, far Heckel and Jeckel were concerned.
Part of my ongoing 'ontology' is having no expectations whatsoever. Not from people or animals or the universe in general. Another is not clinging to my beliefs about how the world works. I must remain psychologically/spiritually fluid or it feels like death.
In convivial alignment, our thoughts entwined . . . I give thee Goethe.
"The process waits. then up, begin it!
What's left today, tomorrow's still to do.
Lose not a day, but straight prepare,
And grasp your chance with resolute trust,
And take occasion by the hair,
For one involved in the affair,
You'll carry on because you must.
The German stage lets each try what he may:
Then spare me nothing, on our special day,
Either of back-cloth or machinery.
Have sun and moon, and what you will of scenery.
And of the lessor fires be lavish:
Of water, cliffs, romantic stuff,
And beasts and birds we cannot have enough." (Faust, Part 1)
"Having read your thoughts so far, I believe that I have a couple of intuitive ideas foretelling your ideas. I will reveal them in a future comment."
I'm all ears. :)) Your comments always delight me.
PS Can you guess what kind of bird I am? An owl, an eagle or a raven?
Faust, having read your story about Heckel and Jeckel, I was able to “see” and further analyze your visual inclinations. Also, having grown more accustomed to your modes of expression, I noticed how your emblematic sense of humor resurfaced in this comment as well.
Delete“Part of my ongoing 'ontology' is having no expectations whatsoever. Not from people or animals or the universe in general. Another is not clinging to my beliefs about how the world works. I must remain psychologically/spiritually fluid or it feels like death.”
Your ontology sounds mellow and while I am not overly demanding either, I do have personal expectations, and my beliefs stand firmly in place until I find a rational and acceptable reason to change them. There is some legitimacy in remaining fluid, but all of the pieces of the puzzles must come together at some given point in time.
Having delineated the above:
“Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.” (T.S. Eliot)
Yes, Faust, disturb the universe, but also mark, acknowledge and “record” its “methods.” Some need structure, while others require abstruse reflection.
“In convivial alignment, our thoughts entwined . . . I give thee Goethe.”
Being in favor of and seeking convivial alignment, bridging this space through “entwined thoughts” has been my goal as well.
“I'm all ears. :)) Your comments always delight me.”
As it were:
“What if you slept
And what if
In your sleep
You dreamed
And what if
In your dream
You went to heaven
And there plucked a strange [Kalachakra]
And what if
When you awoke
You had that [wish granted] in your hand
Ah, what then?” (Coleridge)
The Kalachakra means the “wheel of time” or “time cycles,” and in keeping with your astrology “field” and prior thoughts, it means "as it is outside, so it is within the body." However, focusing primarily on the “wheel of time” or “time cycles” meaning, if you were to turn the wheels of time and have one of your most covert or inner wishes granted, what would that be?
“PS Can you guess what kind of bird I am? An owl, an eagle or a raven?”
You have already given me the answer to your question, "Phoenix."
“There are three conditions which often look alike yet differ completely, flourish in the same hedgerow: attachment to self and to things and to persons, detachment from self and from things and from persons; and, growing between them….” (T.S. Eliot)
Which one of the three "beckons" or feels most familiar to you?
Which one of the three "beckons" or feels most familiar to you?
DeleteGrowing between. Interconnectedness.
Astrologically I'm a phoenix. True. Namely speaking, however, a different bird. Forevermore. ;))
My covert wish is simple. Prosperity for all life, even things generally considered unpleasant. Including spiders . . . whom despite savaging me every spring (biting me during the night, resulting in massive swellings), I would never banish from earth. They're useful and beautiful. :) Catch flies in dewy-dipped webs.
As above, so below. The wheel of time keeps turning in the heavens and in the ticking of our DNA. Tolling for us all.
"Your ontology sounds mellow and while I am not overly demanding either, I do have personal expectations, and my beliefs stand firmly in place until I find a rational and acceptable reason to change them."
DeleteI am mellow. But also inflexible in certain 'expectations.' In myself and of the very few physical intimates I chose to include in my circle.
Faust, having read your story about Heckel and Jeckel, I was able to “see” and further analyze your visual inclinations.
Please do elaborate.
“My covert wish is simple…Including spiders…Catch flies in dewy-dipped webs.”
DeleteThe intricate details and inner workings of a spider’s web fascinate me. Experimenting with it in the laboratory would clarify some of my enrooting ideas.
I, too, am inflexible when contemplating certain “expectations” that come to mind as I compose this reply. After all, and rather symbolically-speaking, “The purpose of literature is to turn blood into ink.” (T.S. Eliot)
“Please do elaborate.”
Your style of story-telling is rather vivid throughout its development and exploration, showing your enthusiasm and curious imagination. You kept and advanced the bird theme, which I truly liked. One of the most revealing Heckle and Jeckle shows in the series is “The Power of Thought.” While some of the action is unrelated to my point, since I am only discussing the two birds apart from the other characters, they do discover quite a few things about themselves in this ocular process.
“Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow” (T.S. Eliot)
How would you define the “Shadow,” Faust?
I suppose at the obvious level, I'd define the "shadow' from the usual psychological perspective; the long bag containing disowned aspects of ourselves that we drag behind us. Who was it that said we spend the first half of life filling up the bag, the last half attempting retrieve what's inside the bag.
DeleteBirds of different feathers abound in literature and dwell among the many branches of my mind. Today's bird is tap-tapping on my skull.
Connotes
» Prophecy
» Magic
» Heralds rain and storm
» Guardian of trees
Woodpeckers are protectors of the trees and refer to people who are protective of nature and their surroundings. It refers to an apparent surge of power and an industrious outlook towards life. They are also symbolic of prophetic and mystic powers.
Read more at Buzzle: http://www.buzzle.com/articles/bird-symbolism-and-their-meanings.html
Blood into ink . . . always. Course, not all blood drops on the page in rhyme.
"The intricate details and inner workings of a spider’s web fascinate me. Experimenting with it in the laboratory would clarify some of my enrooting ideas."
How? I suppose I'm more of an observer in the field, a naturalist of wild and wooly ways.
“…we spend the first half of life filling up the bag, the last half attempting retrieve what's inside the bag.”
DeleteAnd after we retrieve the contents of the bag, Faust, we advance toward reaching the next step: the True Self. This is coming from a book by Richard Rohr who writes that “in the first half of life, our task is to strengthen the container that is our ego. We need to follow the rules, work hard, develop firm boundaries and see things in black-and-white. The second half of life is about filling that container, which actually exists only so that you can take the next step of finding your True Self.”
“Birds of different feathers abound in literature and dwell among the many branches of my mind. Today's bird is tap-tapping on my skull.”
“While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.
“’Tis some visitor,” I muttered, “tapping at my chamber door—
Only this and…” (E.A. Poe)
Well, no, there’s more:
Connotes:
I saw a bird once familiar to me,
that should surprise and strike the reader as a wording of plumaged thoughts,
risking to fly highly in finding just how far one can go.
Spelling its interest in prolonging lives,
and appearing almost a remembrance.
Blood into ink: What type of bird would this “personification” take on, Faust? (While on this “quest,” I am not referring to the raven, though. The article on the symbolism of birds, which I liked perusing, might be useful.)
“How? I suppose I'm more of an observer in the field, a naturalist of wild and wooly ways.”
“For last year's words belong to last year's language
And next year's words await another voice.
And to make an end is to make a beginning." (T.S. Eliot)
And so are the inner workings of a spider’s web, creating and regenerating themselves through the means of intricate “spinnerettes.” My enrooting ideas would clarify through the process of untangling some “elements” that are still unknown to me.
To be untangled within this web in the laboratory of life:
“Time present and time past
Are both perhaps present in time future
And time future contained in time past.” (T.S. Eliot)
“Blood into ink . . . always. Course, not all blood drops on the page in rhyme.”
Have you ever felt or experienced the abundance of this concept, Faust?
I've experienced the fullness of spilling my own blood onto the page, where times past and present and future have blended together in crimson glory . . . only to fade to rust upon a second reading. Some enrooted ideas are difficult to excavate. :)) Untangling spinnerettes is tricky business; it's easy to fall prey to dizziness. Shamanistic rituals of the mind work best for me. (I'm only partly kidding; diffused thinking often untangles the knot.)
DeleteI believe that all seekers of higher knowledge bleed when they face lessons involving self-knowledge. Those are 'elements' of the unknown constitute the greatest challenge. I'm always a bit stunned when I catch myself writing something I didn't know I was aware of. Writing, like conversing with others, produces an abundance of thoughts, new fields of undiscovered country. I suppose I'd go so far to say that when I write I'm conversing with a deeper part of myself. Whatever that part of me is flows dark red.
"Immortality is now
and evermore desirable.
Brushed with ravenspeak
and dew sperm and the
sperm of dragons.
I am the lost bird tribes
Cretaceous, ascending the scaly
evolution of Logos.
I am the genius of my blood's
desire, brooding into the future."
“I've experienced the fullness of spilling my own blood onto the page, where times past and present and future have blended together in crimson glory . . . only to fade to rust upon a second reading."
DeleteOur own world is changed because, at times, we are made of “glory,” so to speak. The curves of our minds rewrite the story that we have always desired.
“I believe that all seekers of higher knowledge bleed when they face lessons involving self-knowledge. Those are 'elements' of the unknown constitute the greatest challenge. I'm always a bit stunned when I catch myself writing something I didn't know I was aware of. Writing, like conversing with others, produces an abundance of thoughts, new fields of undiscovered country. I suppose I'd go so far to say that when I write I'm conversing with a deeper part of myself. Whatever that part of me is flows dark red.”
I truly liked the phrasing and meaning of the last sentence you’ve uncovered in this train of thought. Sometimes, a deeper part of yourself, fate or life, leaves a door somewhat ajar and you squeeze and walk through it. However, there are also times when it locks the door, and you have to unearth the right key, or “to pick the lock,” in a sense (in a symbolic fashion, of course). There are yet other times when this covert part of your being, fate or life, does not even guide you to the right door, and you have to “build” it yourself. But, if you keep seeking and creating, the most suitable doors will be opened for you.
“We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.” (T.S. Eliot)
“Some enrooted ideas are difficult to excavate. :))”
“Do I dare
Disturb the universe?” (T.S. Eliot)
Yes. How would you begin to approach this difficulty, Faust? In keeping with the birds theme, can you, perhaps, design and write this approach as you have done with the Heckle and Jeckle thoughts (as in writing another short story or paragraph including and expanding on this difficulty)? What would those details reveal in this construct?
"The curves of our minds rewrite the story that we have always desired."
DeleteI call that fate -- fate is the result of the ends of desire. Whether we know it or not. It was Jung who once said, Character is fate. How true! Know thyself was inscribed on the lintel of the Delphic oracle. For good reason.
"There are yet other times when this covert part of your being, fate or life, does not even guide you to the right door, and you have to “build” it yourself. But, if you keep seeking and creating, the most suitable doors will be opened for you."
Also true. I'm standing on the threshold right now, matter of fact. About to step off the cliff, into the unknown. With a broken foot no less. :))) (I suspect Chiron conjunct my Sun has a play in this.)
I've always avoided conflict as much as possible. . . now I can't. Bummer: I'd rather go to 'the place for the first time,' play in my own little fictional mystical world. Make magic, write stories. Where greedy souls get their just desserts and those who struggle to live consciously and in harmony triumph. Lol.
I'm delighted to disturb the universe at least as much as the universe has delighted in disturbing me. Turnabout is fair play.
Heckle and Jeckel caused a ruckus in our house and in the entire neighborhood. At worst, they stole stuff, divebombed people they didn't like. At best, they played sly tricks on my asshole cousins. Once Heckle picked from "HT's" pocket a ring he'd snatched from my jewelry box, right in front of my family. HT hated Heckle after that, but also stopped stealing. Heckle was indifferent to meting out his brand of justice; he simply wanted reveal reality and have fun doing it.
Disturbing the universe often means getting involved in stuff I'd rather not. Speaking of which, I need to get back to writing something that will definitely disturb my local universe.
What approach would you make to raising hell in the solar system?
“I call that fate -- fate is the result of the ends of desire. Whether we know it or not. It was Jung who once said, Character is fate. How true! Know thyself was inscribed on the lintel of the Delphic oracle. For good reason.”
Delete“Follow that will and that way which experience confirms to be your own.” I believe that I have found this to be bona fide in my own, personal way.
Carl Jung also said (for good reason, that is): “Knowing your own darkness is the best method for dealing with the darkness of other people.”
Which brings me to these momentary, “webbed” thoughts:
“April is the cruelest month, breeding
lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
memory and desire, stirring
dull roots with spring rain.” (T.S. Eliot)
“Also true. I'm standing on the threshold right now, matter of fact. About to step off the cliff, into the unknown. With a broken foot no less. :))) (I suspect Chiron conjunct my Sun has a play in this.)”
I wonder, why would a centaur like Chiron step off a cliff into the unknown with a broken foot? I am trying to picture this scene, Faust, and it does not bode well in your peculiarly-fanfaring forecast.
“I've always avoided conflict as much as possible. . . now I can't. Bummer: I'd rather go to 'the place for the first time,' play in my own little fictional mystical world. Make magic, write stories. Where greedy souls get their just desserts and those who struggle to live consciously and in harmony triumph. Lol.”
Ah, magic…I know such a secluded place, but, as it were, it is inscribed within my own “world.” As to other, exterior worlds I’ve perused from time to time: “Someone needs to tell those tales. When the battles are fought and won and lost, when the pirates find their treasures and the dragons eat their foes for breakfast with a nice cup of Lapsang souchong, someone needs to tell their bits of overlapping narrative. There's magic in that. It's in the listener, and for each and every ear it will be different, and it will affect them in ways they can never predict. From the mundane to the profound. You may tell a tale that takes up residence in someone's soul, becomes their blood and self and purpose. That tale will move them and drive them and who knows what they might do because of it, because of your words. That is your role, your gift.” (“The Night Circus” by E.M.)
“I'm delighted to disturb the universe at least as much as the universe has delighted in disturbing me. Turnabout is fair play.”
I say disturbing the universe, or personality-wise “marching to the beat of a different drummer,” should become a law, a legal code, an ordinance, a fiat, and everything else that is lawful under the sun. Having said that, Heckle and Jeckle sound quite boisterous in this particular cycle of your chart.
“What approach would you make to raising hell in the solar system?”
I would create a variety of games and multifarious tasks between Mars and Venus. It would be comparable to the “Summer and Winter Olympics” in motion. Each task or game between Mars and Venus would take place on a different planet, probing and examining in this undertaking (or uptaking, for that matter). To add to this whole ensemble, I would re-direct some orbits and find the very center of a few satellites until everything is set on its right course (my idea of it, that is). The last probe of the Olympics would take place within drawing, unrivaled energy of the sun.
How would you “raise hell in the solar system,” Faust? Would it, perhaps, involve a breed of rare birds?
Once,
Delete"Why would a centaur..." I was combining the tarot card, the Fool, with astrology. Stepping off the cliff is the Fool's journey: you are called upon to have faith in your 'gut' or animal instincts to warn you of danger (represented by the small dog who accompanies the Fool) to explore the unknown. Chiron, as you know, was the wounded healer. I brought Chiron up because his 'energy' fits my condition (Chiron is associated with outsiders/and those who are unfairly wounded, through no fault of their own, by dumb fate.) As for my prognosis in this daring adventure, it's hard to say. Certainly it's going to upset some powerful people. Given the circumstances I've no choice, however. If you don't hear from me after a month, assume I've been eliminated from the game. Lol. Don't worry -- even if they drive a stake through my heart and cut off my head, I've arranged to leave a behind a legacy that will live on forever. The old saying, document, document, document, serves me well.
Jung, of course, was right. Knowing the darkness in myself shines light on the darkness in others and vice versa. The fool's journey always takes us back to the 'beginning place,' that place of the strange yet familiar Self.
"I say disturbing the universe, or personality-wise “marching to the beat of a different drummer,” should become a law, a legal code, an ordinance, a fiat, and everything else that is lawful under the sun. Having said that, Heckle and Jeckle sound quite boisterous in this particular cycle of your chart."
I'd say you write like someone who appears to be living like a law unto themselves. Strong Uranus in your chart. ;) As for my chart, it's literally on fire. There is no turning back to the old ways or life. It's burn baby phoenix burn. Evolve or be destroyed cycle.
"You, kindred Sprite of Earth, come strangely nearer;
My spirits rise, my powers are stronger, clearer,
As from the glow of refreshing wine.
I gather heart to risk the world's encounter,
To bear my human fate as fate's surmounter,
To front the storm, in joy or grief not palter,
Even in the gnash of shipwreck never falter." (Goethe)
I enjoyed your brief tale of Mars and Venus visiting the other planets. Those two planets morph into something else besides a longing for love and sex when they encounter the transpersonal planets: Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. When lovers (Venus and/or Mars)are touched by these celestial entities, their passion becomes sparked by evolutionary forces beyond their control. Love must be redefined and in the process we discover 'archetypes' that are impersonal in their agenda. Neptune, Uranus and Pluto transits force us to view our own personal drama as part of a much bigger play. (fyi, the more aspects between the outer planets to the personal natal planets in a horoscope, the more dramatic that persona's life, and often the larger the consciousness. The transpersonal planets usually manifest in people as 'big ideas,' a universal perception. I'd imagine from your writing that your chart is wired similar to mine in that regard. If so, it will be difficult for you (as it has been for me) to stay 'small', focused solely on self-gratification. As well, there's a good chance you will be pushed into the limelight whether or not you seek it. I tried my best to remain low key . . . I like staying invisible, being Anon. But the universe seems hellbent on shoving me out of my cozy cave.
Unfortunately, no time for flights of fancy this morning. My lawyer will soon be here.
I'm enjoying our whimsical conversation, Once.
Catch ya later!
Well, what do YOU as an individual WANT from life? Forget about slots.
ReplyDelete"Go Where You Want To Go, Do What You Want To Do," as the song says.
There will be plenty of people who will try to exploit you for your body, money,
or vote, but you must go your own way no matter what.
Killing someone? Ultimately, that's nothing. People are going to die anyway.
We all kill each other fast or slow.
If it weren’t for electricity and imagination, we’d all be going where we want to go and doing what we want to do by gas lamp. As the song says, innovation is “A Kind of Magic.”
DeleteAs to your death talk: “One of the mysteries in life is why the kamikaze pilots wore helmets.” (A.M.) I wonder how Confucius would have explained or solved this?
Kamikaze pilots wore helmets for two reasons. The first was so that they couldn't be distinguished from non kamikaze pilots the second was so that they could live long enough to strike their intended target.
DeleteOn the mark, Anon.
DeleteConfucius "would" answer with the following thoughts about the helmets and the kamikaze pilots’ ultimate mission:
Predicate: What’s in a helmet? A helmet by any other name would not “matter…as long as you do not stop.”
Aver: “When anger rises, think of the consequences.” Hence, wear a helmet! You will be knocked around during high-speed missions, while maneuvering in mid-air, or to avoid gunfire while nose-diving into a large ship. Second Aver: You will not "necessarily" survive it.
Recite out loud now: “Death and life have their determined appointments.” Going deaf while flying with your canopies open to get a better view when taking off or looking for landmarks should foretell a “postulate.”
As been mentioned before, no fixed psychopath-type exists even if a certain "classic" type is the standard when movies are being made. Traits that all socios share deep within are likely: indifference, hatred of man & the empty/will-driven personality.
ReplyDeleteM.E., as I wrote above (see my second comment below my initial comment), I did not mean the words "lulu, pip and humdinger" in a derogatory manner. All three of them mean a crackerjack to me (a person who stands apart from the rest in a distinct way), and, in fact, they are synonymous to each other in the "official or standard" sense that I mentioned.
ReplyDeletethe experiencer. there is one.
ReplyDeleteWe are not here to help people.
ReplyDeleteI'm here help myself.
DeleteMaybe so, Harry. But you have helped me, too.
DeleteHow's it going these days? I've been lying low, or rather horizontal, with a broken foot. Lots of reading time on my hands.
HLHaller, I am sending this in relation to one of your comments from the prior post:
DeleteShowing willingness in a “net positive” way is a major step forward in changing society as a whole.
“In a way, I guess it helps me to figure out what I am and, maybe, what I "should be" feeling. It helps me to "pass" and it gives me credibility as a "good friend." All of this adds up to pleasant relationships in which I am "valued."
Being who you are will not obscure the strengths you possess while, simultaneously, building your credibility. As it were, credibility is a basic survival need, and it is not always about doing things that are familiar when changing society. I find respect and value in both the familiar and the unexpected.
I am here to help people. It is my calling so to speak. Welcome newbie. You could very well be one of us. (I would definitively say yes you are but you need to make that call yourself). It is not a bad way to live. We are a varied and diverse group of oddballs here. Stick around for a while I for one welcome more youngsters. I think it would have been of benefit to me to know what I was at a younger age. I knew I was different from a very early age I just had no name for what I was. Finding "My People" so to speak, has been enlightening. I did self diagnose before I read ME's book though.
DeletePlease join in the discussion. Some of us are rude, some annoying, and some of us are actually here to help others. Helping people is endlessly fascinating and even though I get no emotional reward for it I do it because help others is the key to selflessness. Humans are narcissistic by nature, sociopathy is just the way our particular narcissism presents. Helping others is the opposite of narcissism, if you do it without expecting a reward.
One more helpful piece of advice. I had to set up a filter system by which I could determine the proper course of behavior for, well, everything I do If you feel the urge to do something ask yourself this: "Does this behavior/action/reaction harm anyone including myself? If the answer is yes: don't do it. If no pass to the next filter. Next filter does this action benefit another without harming myself or another? Yes: Perform action.. No? Perform action if it amuses you. I practiced that for so many years I can now do it automatically. I do sometimes go off script. Sometimes I must suffer or put myself in harms way to save a life. Worth it. Sometimes I do nasty evil stuff for the thrill of it. I am not perfect. But for the most part my life runs smoothly if I adhere to the moral litmus test.
Glad to be back. I missed you guys
“Please join in the discussion. Some of us are rude, some annoying, and some of us are actually here to help others. Helping people is endlessly fascinating and even though I get no emotional reward for it I do it because help others is the key to selflessness. Humans are narcissistic by nature, sociopathy is just the way our particular narcissism presents. Helping others is the opposite of narcissism, if you do it without expecting a reward.”
DeletePuppy Basket, Helping others is a high and respectable calling. Not expecting a reward makes your calling even higher. Human nature can take on so many manifestations, but designing and applying tenable solutions can result in a successful actions.
“One more helpful piece of advice. I had to set up a filter system by which I could determine the proper course of behavior for, well, everything I do….I am not perfect. But for the most part my life runs smoothly if I adhere to the moral litmus test.”
Your filter system applies to both sociopaths and non-sociopaths. I believe that anyone can harm or create damage, regardless of what they might consider themselves to be. Absolutely anyone can employ a filter when choosing the willingness to have one (I am clarifying this point because some choose the barefaced unwillingness to apply one even when being self-aware and knowledgeable of all facts and possible circumstances/results). I call it a compass with “elastic” directions, seeing its navigation as capable of helping in all depths and surfaces.
What action(s) or preceding occurrence has led to your decision to set up a filter system?
Welcome back Puppy Basket!
DeleteNice to hear from you Faust and Puppy Basket!
DeleteI can't honestly say I'm here for anyone else - I do hope that some of what I "say" might be helpful to others, but I am keenly aware of the mileage I get out of it. If everyone comes out for the better - I call that an elegant solution - rather than narc supply.
@Faust: What in tarnation di you do to your foot? I tore my retina twice (I put a pic on my HLHaller facebook page) - I try to pas it off as cage fighting, but at my age, no one is buying it - my doc says it's just "shitty luck.". (LOL!).
Hey Harry, I'd be sucker enough to buy into you cage fighting. I can see it all now, Bam. Bam, bam. Come on you -- make my day! (Just kidding, you're more into verbal sparring.)
DeleteAs for my foot . . . an injury caused by my other injury, the one I got at work. Can't really say much; there's an excellent chance that someone from my work is monitoring this site.
Also, with Chiron, the wounded, lame centaur, conjunct my Sun, I guess you could say I had this one coming one way or another. Better my foot than a cracked skull, is all I can say. I'm considered batty enough as it is. So I think I might as well use it to my advantage, get back into my old line of work. It's a hell of a lot safer.
How's ma and little rascals?
LOL!!! Yeah, verbal sparring is more my style - especially at my age.
DeleteMa is working on staring her new life as the separation progresses - I'm enjoying the peace and quiet as we have less and less to do with each other.
"Spanky" and "Darla" are doing great - I'm away half the week on a job, so we miss each other (for me to miss anyone is a new thing for me...).
Missing people is hard. Sometimes, for the weak-hearted (not you) it can be deadly. Welcome to one of the hassles of being an NT. Kids are like nitrogen to personal growth. They give you a 'shot' and before you know it you're not the same person anymore.
DeleteWhen my son was born, there was a roughly two week process I went through. At the time, I recall saying that it was like roar of connections being made.
DeleteAs a kid, I would go on sleep overs and trips and such and I don't recall ever missing anyone - not even my parents. People would have to remind me to send cards home.
So, missing my kids is a whole different thing for me - it's a work in progress.
" At the time, I recall saying that it was like roar of connections being made."
DeleteExactly. :))
Faust, How much do you know about Mount Pelion?
DeleteA label is a shortcut to understanding. Helpful sometimes, but often veiling richness.
ReplyDeleteWho ever regretted curiosity! Remain curious about yourself and integrate helpful notions.
My theory is that many rich persons want to be "sociopaths" without really understanding its meaning? Its somehow part of an imagined "concept": successful, ruthless and ice cold. And they are "just" successful and misses the other stuff or think they do? Somehow the "public" wants this too, its almost disappointing to see "human gods" on tv in their mansions without getting the impression that these folks are beady-eyed bastards. It "lessens the impression" of being elevated, rich, if clear signs of psychopathy is missing..?
ReplyDeleteThis is my testimony about the good work of a man who helped me....My name is maria cooker ... My life is back!!! After 8 years of marriage, my husband left me and left me with our three kids. I felt like my life was about to end, and was falling apart. Thanks to a spell caster called papa ork who i met online. On one faithful day, as I was browsing through the internet, I was searching for a good spell caster that can solve my problems. I came across series of testimonies about this particular spell caster. Some people testified that he brought their Ex lover back, some testified that he restores womb, some testified that he can cast a spell to stop divorce and so on. There was one particular testimony I saw, it was about a woman called grace,she testified about how papa ork brought back her Ex lover in less than 72 hours and at the end of her testimony she drop papa ork e-mail address. After reading all these,I decided to give papa a try. I contacted him via email and explained my problem to him. In just 3 days, my husband came back to me. We solved our issues, and we are even happier than before. papa ork is really a talented and gifted man and i will not to stop publishing him because he is a wonderful man...If you have a problem and you are looking for a real and genuine spell caster to solve that problem for you. Try the great papa ork today, he might be the answer to your problem. Here's his contact: orkstarspell@gmail.com Thank you great ork.
ReplyDeleteContact him for the following:
(1)If you want your ex back.
(2) if you always have bad dreams.
(3)You want to be promoted in your office.
(4)You want women/men to run after you.
(5)If you want a child.
(6)You want to be rich.
(7)You want to tie your husband/wife to be yours forever.
(8)If you need financial assistance.
(9)Herbal care
10)Help bringing people out of prison
Contact him today on:
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OP, sociopathy/psychopathy is most likely a spectrum, so it isn't a definite black and white, you are or you aren't label. I believe labels are only as valid as they are useful anyway. If this label helps you understand yourself better, by all means, you are a sociopath. You certainly sound like one from what you've written.
ReplyDeleteThis label has a lot of negative connotations, some of them completely justified, so I would be wary of sharing it or letting it get stuck to you.
When I first figured out what I was, I was overjoyed. I finally had an explanation for all of my strange behaviors and quirks, and I now knew I wasn't alone. There are others, and if I met them we probably would be great in bed together (s/p's are notoriously sexual) but we probably wouldn't get along at all, always trying to manipulate and one up the other. Still, it's nice knowing you aren't the only one.
I've thought more about the label since then and have realized it's really not something to advertise. I tried to come out to my parents as a psychopath and they were revolted, so I quickly backtracked...just kidding guys, haha it was a joke. That was awkward. Thankfully they are determined to believe I'm a daughter to be proud of - it fuels my mother's narcissism for sure.
I told one of my only close friends, who I think is probably an Aspie, and he's been reading all about s/p's - the Mask of Sanity, the Socio Next Door, ect. We're still friends, but he doesn't really function like NT's, so I don't think he's an appropriate gauge of what their reactions may be like. I've decided not to tell anyone else.
Best of luck to you!
I told my sister I thought I was a sociopath, once. She said I wasn't, and everyone I've spoken with at length has had the same opinion. Other favorites of mine are Schizoid personality disorder and some flavor of autism. What made you decide you were definitely a sociopath? Any lingering doubts?
DeleteI'm quite fond of trying to jam myself in any number of boxes, but none of them are quite my shape and size. I'm either odd in some way, or overwhelmingly driven by an existential need to feel somehow special or important. Likely both.
I think I'm a psychopath for several reasons and I definitely relate to you trying to diagnose yourself!
DeleteFirstly, why I'm a psychopath: I'm very good at mimicking behavior and emotions and have been as long as I can remember, even in childhood. I have low tolerance for boredom and am very impulsive, but I've learned to manage my impulses and carefully hide them.
I don't have a self. I have likes and dislikes, but I'm not really attached to anything. For example, I prefer my coffee strong and black, but I'm fine with getting caffeine from tea too. I prefer coffee, but I don't care enough to protest if given something else that does the same trick.
I'm fond of people, but I'm not attached to anyone so much that I couldn't betray them or walk away from the relationship without any further communication if it suited me. Like the coffee, I have a preference for people, but I could go without and be fine, especially if I had replacements.
I know I'm not Schizoid because I love people. I'm not strongly emotionally attached to them, but they are stimulating, amusing, and sometimes even endearing and I would not want to be isolated. I enjoy playing with people too, and almost all of my interactions have something a little flirty about them - I hold eye contact too long, I wet my lips, I wear low cut things and bend forward too much, whatever. I love sex.
I identify as a psychopath (a closeted one) because it makes the most sense to me in explaining my behavior and thoughts and functioning. I say psychopath because I wasn't abused and antisocial characteristics run in the family - my uncle blew up part of his school, tortured animals, burned down buildings, and is generally a wayward individual.
When I was younger, I used to try on different mental disorders to see which one fit best, looking for an explanation for why I wasn't like anyone else I knew. I think maybe the need for diagnoses/labels/boxes is a symptom of not having a self - we need to define because we lack an identity and want a concise label to give us one.
Thoughts?
Very interesting, Dorian.
DeleteMy ex is very likely a psychopath. She told me that her default personality was sort of 'blank', and that whenever people around her displayed emotions she thought they were pretending. So, she pretended too. She actually 'stole' the personality of a girl she knew who was well-liked. She thought something was up when she realized that if everyone was pretending to feel things, there wouldn't be any point to it, so some people must be genuine.
As for myself, I have no trouble feeling my own emotions, but I don't feel the emotions of others. I am chronically bored, but I relieve boredom by retreating into my inner world. Silly as it sounds, posting here is similar, as it allows me to reflect on my thoughts and construct the people here into working models of behavior inside my head. After all, I'm not exactly out at a bar as I type this. Though I could be. As for mimicry, I've had a tendency in the past to mold myself to whoever is around me in order to blend in. I'm an expert at hiding what's going on beneath the surface, mostly boredom behind smiles and interested-looking eyes.
I'm right with you in not giving a fuck. I just don't. I find things interesting, sure, but I don't care. I pretend, like I feel everyone else must, but that's the extent of it. If someone screws up my order at a restaurant, I almost never say anything. It's all the same to me. I guess that makes me pleasant to deal with.
I've had friends, talked to people for hours on end over weeks and months, gone out multiple times, etc. I enjoyed it, but at the same time it's easy for me to let people go. I'll find new people, more interesting people. I like them open-minded, uninhibited, and intelligent, even if I don't exemplify those qualities perfectly myself.
I suppose I don't want to be totally isolated, or I would be. I had to be told by my ex not to stare into her eyes so much. I trained myself to glance away, to be more normal. Most of my interactions have little to do with sex, but when it's my goal I tend to get what I want. Confidence is sexy, after all.
I can relate to the lack of a sense of self. Narcissist, schizoid, avoidant, asperger's, psychopath, all of these things contribute bits and pieces to how I see myself. I'll never carry any of those labels, though, because the primary determinant of any personality disorder is inability to function in society. I blend flawlessly, but it's dissatisfying. I don't want to have to blend, to censor, to obscure and cloak and shield my thoughts and feelings from everyone around me.
Who would I be if I didn't have to hide anything, if I always spoke my mind? I would be an amoral, spiteful, selfish, cunning bastard capable of switching from callous disregard to unremitting kindness and generosity in the blink of an eye. Never cruel except out of ignorance, and benevolent on a whim for the joy it brings. I can't do it though, I can't speak my mind. The truth isn't always sunshine and rainbows, often it's dark as a man's soul.
Maybe the only thing wrong with me is that I'm not dumb enough to believe that the lies I tell are anything but.
Somebody, others might have something to say on "The truth isn't always sunshine and rainbows, often it's dark as a man's soul." too.
DeleteSomebody,
Delete"She told me that her default personality was sort of 'blank', and that whenever people around her displayed emotions she thought they were pretending. So, she pretended too."
When I was younger I thought social interactions were a game of sorts. Everyone pretended to be concerned about each other and this play acting was just a game that everyone was in on. The point was to not slip up and reveal that you didn't actually care about anyone but yourself.
Middle school especially was a game, all about power. I prettied up for middle school so I could be the most attractive little seventh grade girl and all the boys would want me - not because I wanted them, but because I wanted power over them, and over the other girls. I only talked to some people and pointedly ignored others. It was all a game to see how popular I could be. I didn't even understand what friendship meant, but I did have a lot of friends and admirers.
Eventually I got tired of this game; it got boring. It seemed like all anyone ever did was pretend, all the time, and eventually it wasn't interesting anymore. I stopped playing. My parents thought there was something wrong with me, but I felt free. I stopped interacting with people unless I actually liked them, which left me with only one friend, who was less emotional and much more logical (I loved her because I could actually talk to her without feeling like I was playing the game). I think she's an Aspie. We are still friends.
I realize now that "the game" was only a game to me. I was pretending to have emotions while other people actually had them. Sure, there was a lot of pretension in middle school, from empaths and from me, but people actually did care about their friends and friendship meant more than power plays to them.
I came to this realization because everyone was so concerned when I stopped playing. I admitted to my parents that I didn't feel anything and I thought everyone was basically manipulative and power hungry (because I assumed everyone was like me, only better at playing the emotions game).
My parents assumed I was depressed. Their upset reactions and giant problematic assumptions convinced me that I hadn't merely stopped playing - no one knew I was playing and it wasn't a game. To them I hadn't given up on playing a game, I had given up on life. That was very shocking. I've done my best to keep up the game since then, with the new understanding that it's only a game to me and others like me. It can be exhausting to pretend to have feelings, but it's better than being given Prozac I don't need!
Dorian,
DeleteThat sounds like fun! Part of why I have trouble boxing myself into the sociopath category is that I can't relate to these early childhood experiences of dominating social circles. I was too introverted, too internally focused. I didn't care at all about what other people were doing. I recognized that it was abnormal to not have friends, and that bothered me much more than not having them.
I didn't realize that other people had inner worlds until my late teens. Once that clicked I didn't have any trouble fitting in. I had already spent an enormous amount of time observing other people without interacting. So, I can integrate flawlessly, though it does require me to be hypervigilant, read a room, etc.
It's interesting that you had the experience of stopping the game. There have been maybe one or two instances where I slipped up and told someone I didn't care when they were talking about something important to them. I remember that they were really upset about it, so I try not to do it anymore.
The worst is when someone dies. If I have to say something, it's almost always the wrong thing. Grandparents, aunts and uncles, babies, etc. Even close friends, I always seem to say or do something wrong. I had to unfollow one of my cousins on Facebook because she kept posting things/pictures of her dead baby. That shit's depressing, I don't want to see that! When my mom told me that her baby died, I told her it's fine, she can have another one. Apparently that's horribly offensive, but guess what? She had another baby, just like I said she would. Can I at least catch a fucking break if I'm right about something?
Sorry, there's just something about peoples' obsession with dead babies that pisses me off.
Dorian, I like your psychopath description and I relate to it. I'd rather tell people I'm a sociopath because psychopath seems to elicit visions of serial killers, at least in my head. At this point, in my late 20s, what's the difference? At a certain age, it's basically interchangeable as the born psycho and created socio have been operating similarly, for a long time.
DeleteSpeaking of mimicry, I would adopt random personalities, at times, and I thought everyone else did the same. Turns out that I was just a little weirdo.
Oh, my mom's baby didn't die, she just told me about my cousin's baby. I'm not sure why I feel that's an important distinction but I thought I'd clarify.
Delete@Somebody, death is tough, especially when it's a baby. It's tough for empaths to face and tough for me to try to cognitively empathize. Even when I do have a solid understanding to a very cold and rational degree, I'm still not feeling what everyone else is feeling and don't know exactly how to react.
DeleteI think people are so upset about babies dying because they haven't gotten to live yet. It doesn't seem very logical to be so upset to me either, because they haven't experienced much of what they are loosing - life. It seems more upsetting for someone in the middle of a full and great life to die than someone who has barely lived at all, but alas, this is probably just another empath thing that I don't get.
@SND, when I told my parents and my Aspie friend I didn't use the word psychopath. I told them I thought I might have some characteristics of a sociopath. My friend actually corrected me and explained that I was most likely a psychopath. He didn't seem particularly concerned. I am definitely not going to walk around announcing that I'm a psychopath and I don't think I'll come out to anyone else anytime soon.
I do have a friend who has seen me do some pretty questionable things. I tried to seduce her twice - the first time went well for me and rather unfortunately for her and the second time she learned from her mistake and rejected me. We are on good terms though and I haven't used any words like sociopath or psychopath, but the traits all there for her to see, so I suppose she accepts me too. I would rather do things this way - show someone my true colors without using any damning labels and if they stick around, everything is great. If they run for the hills, well, I probably won't care much anyway.
I think people go a little nuts when they hear words like sociopath and psychopath. It's much easier for my friend to say she's friends with a cold hearted lying manipulative bitch than to say she's friends with a psychopath. One of these descriptions sounds like a flawed person, the other like an irredeemable monster.
I dont think zodiac Scorpios look for "Ãdentity"? My theory concerning these are that many seek out wildlife in the form of, for example, long-hair alsatian dogs. Or they like the images of wolverines or lynx-cats. They like these "mirrors", but it can of course never serve as a real identity. I doubt Scorpio likes the "title" psychopath, even if a part of them maybe is more inhuman/savage than the socio.
ReplyDeleteHas the death watch started? Or is this the wake?
ReplyDeletehaven't been on for a few years. The background has changed (too bright). M.E.'s identity has been revealed. Most comments are still from women, young teens and the autistic.
ReplyDeleteI remember the blog post, a few years back, where she pretended to be some author and asked for stories. I didn't give my because i thought it was some dumb academic and was concerned about my privacy. Too bad because the Statute of limitations has just passed for me. Well at least by the date of harm and the date on which the plaintiff reasonably should have discovered the harm. There is always the chance due to the nature of it that the date on which the plaintiff actually discovered the harm will be used. M.E. knows the law much better than I and i don't want to make a fool out of myself by talking about law in front of the professional.
M.E. could you share more about how to be a better person? To think clearer, plan better, more patience, more cunning etc. There are times when i take too much unnecessary risk and waste my capital rather than saving it for the right time. I understand the limitations of violence but with non violence i just can't feel the feeling of getting even. Can one feel truly even with non violent means or am i just not brutal enough?
Do you take M.E. at face value? Or, have you tried to dwelve beneath the
ReplyDeletesurface?
She seems to have opened up the door to a certain extent, but she's still
very secreative. That's my nature as well, because I have Pluto in the first house of my Astrological chart. She's revealing enough to put out this blog,
but we really have no idea about such things as where she resides or what her
day is like. How can we possibly administer aid, if she is such a stranger to us?
We have to let her know in no uncertain terms that we appreciate what she has
done for us. We have to let her know that she is very important to us.
I think she DOES have some humanity, though stressors could send her over
the edge. My studies have shown me she needs love, more then she lets on.
Her birthday is tomorrow. Let's give her assurance to buck her up and let her
know she is loved, no matter what!
Maybe you should start a donation fund. Eventually her book sales will dry up. O ya and start a petition to get rid of the picture "i am not a robot" check just do a normal word check. it doesn't work on Tor and other privacy software.
DeleteDid you get her a present?
DeleteMy goodness. Such a worrier. It's clear that you love M.E. very much. Yet is seems to me, somehow, that you're the one looking for some kind of reassurance. So, please allow me to assure you that having Pluto in the first house does not necessarily manifest as secretiveness. More often it's simply reserved, someone who tends to watch and observe others. And yes, you possess the potential to exude great personal power and the ability to charm. Or, on the other hand become a tad obsessive . . . not to worry, though. To each his own. Your obsession with M.E. is rather overwrought but kinda cute.
Delete"Getting even" is not caring, not reacting, not responding. Isolating harmful "bacteria". Real punishment is "life", not the needle.
ReplyDeleteLet's make this short and sweet. In essence, everyone is a sociopath. Here are a few truths, take then as you will.
ReplyDelete1) We lack the ability to actually have emotions for anyone but ourselves, this applies to everyone in existence.
2) We are all selfish and narcissitic. We do not value others, we value what they offer; it can be tangible or nontangible. Examples include validation, acceptance, money, entertainment.
3) We do not have a self. Essentially we are nothing but conglomeration of all of our experiences up to this point.
If you require logic to prove these I will gladly provide it, though any true sociopath will understand these truths as they are stated.
*a conglomeration
Delete1) We have the ability to imagine the plight of others, and through this imperfect lens provide aid.
Delete2) Kindness is its own reward. If you treat others well, it is more likely they will treat you well. Some will fail to reciprocate, but not all.
3) You are what you do. Most 'whys' are lies, but whatever the reason, there is one, and whether you understand it or not that is your 'self'.
Elf: Grammatically speaking, I am forced to assume that either English is not your first language, or you have received little more education than an eleventh-year student given the atrocious errors contained within your short and ridiculously simplistic sociopath manifesto. Psychologically, your argument is a classic case of projection, which clarifies nothing more or less than how you happen to perceive the world, rather than revealing deep truths as to the nature of humanity. Philosophically, your flippant use of the concept of any kind of universal or moral truth is, when viewed from a purely logical perspective, ludicrously and embarrassingly fallacious. As such, your attempt to "prove" anything in a coherently logical fashion should prove entertaining to read.
DeleteSomebody: Same issues with your language skills, but more importantly, why are you here? What exactly is the point of your counterargument, if that's even what it is? Do you expect to change the mind of someone as obviously disturbed as Elf? Or is your feeble and nearly incomprehensible attempt to refute the inarticulate ramblings of a psychopath one of those self-serving and narcissistic desires he so carefully clarified? Check your righteousness, or at the very least, be more indignant about it.
Nice troll.
DeleteYes Elf. So it is. At minimum on the aggregated level.
ReplyDeleteThen comes fear. Basically fear of being left alone. No assistance. How big factor that is, depends on other variables. The higher level of intelligence, the easier to see how the world works, instead of fearing it. The easier it is to control one own's fear. On top of that, one could add some introversion to the formula. What will come out, is pretty much someone who just doesn't care about pretending. And if you don't pretend, one is a often a stranger. And a stranger, is close to being a psychopath. A part of the out-group. There are other diagnosis, less discriminating alternatives. It depends a lot on past behavior and acts, which is most suitable.
My working hypothesis is this one:
Add some 20-30 IQ points or more, into the average person. The loners of today, will then start to appreciate social contact again. Come out of their shell and they will no longer be considered lone wolves. Till that point, the majority, the average, will always have some label for the minority. The biggest difference between them is often fear. Fear is often a product of less IQ (less personal and internal drive to live happily as a loner) and probably a better upbringing/social environment.
Add some pills, some alcohol, some other drug into most normals. Voila, the number of sociopaths and ill behavior just tripled in 5 hours. Because so many just really fear being themselves. Being out of their facade. Some become annoyed, others fascinated, by those personalities who mostly just couldn't care a lot what other people may think, desire, mean, find acceptable... Labeling such people, is close to their hearts. That is narcissism in play. If you cannot change yourself (fear), make yourself better than your neighbor (relative success and good person).
Weird world
I don't believe IQ plays as large of a role as one would believe. From my understanding of the world, there seems to be three types of people in existence. The majority do not acknowledge their egos. Secondary is the group in which people have recognized and acknowledged their egos. The third, my favorite, are those who have transcended the ego. I think more people simply need to face their egos.
Delete"Add some 20-30 IQ points or more, into the average person."
DeleteAlas, if only it were a viability.
If your still young. I could have done a few things differently myself. I would have just accepted the state of reality. Kept contact with those of my friends who were smart, pretty self confident, doing good things for themselves, accepted their ego, my own, and just played along. Not expecting any real thing. It is what it is. It will last for as long as it does. Basically, till I get bored or move away. And that is fine. Also if they do.
ReplyDeleteWhat I don't regret, is staying away from those fearful ones. Those whose major concern, is that their friend said this and did such a bad thing. In reality small pieces of shit. They will drag you down anyway. Because they cannot change their own style. They need to drag you down, to become relatively speaking, wiser, richer, happier, better person, whatever. They are basically the same shit, but in relative terms, making someone else worse off, makes them better. I miss my old big ego narcish, but successful and full of themselves friends :). Superficial and interesting relationships we did have. Honestly, I haven't really found that deeper thing anyway. Seems to be comparable to hitting the jackpot.
The causes of your sociopathy is not only genetic its also about your upbringing envinronmment:
ReplyDeletehttp://redd.it/37h94d
Hey, OP here. Apart from many inconsequential discussions, I want to thank the few (Lola, Faust, Puppy Basket, Dorain) who helped me achieve some insight.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I am very much aware of the dangerous and often inaccurate nature of labels, I believe that they can be helpful in supply clarity within oneself--provided it is well-founded.
Personally, I was always aware that something was slightly off and would stare into the mirror, reassuring myself that I was still human. My main issue, however, was whether I was truly a sociopath. Despite my constant allegations of everything being neither black nor white, my actions seemed to follow an undeniable pattern.
Since becoming truly engrossed in the world of psychology, I have identified as an ENTP for years. Because being an ENTP female in the prime of her teenage years is hard enough, I usually attribute my natural callous and diabolical traits as nothing out of the ordinary. The close correlation between my particular personality type and sociopathy led me to automatically accept the lesser of the two evils--but upon hesitant closer inspection, I have realized the two "labels" are intertwined in my case.
Mindful of the inherent spectrum within all aspects, I cannot say with objective certainty that anything is one thing or another, but I am glad to have finally achieved some acuity in my own internal affairs. After all, we are allowed to have an actual personality beyond that of a sociopath/specific type--whether it is superficial or otherwise. I'm an ENTP sociopath with a dislike of sex and lack of criminal history. It's our differences that set us apart, yet certain similarities are undeniable.
I'd love to hear back from any other ENTP sociopaths out there, or how you determined whether you really suffered from this disorder or simply have a disjointed and obscure personality like mine.
Mercutio, A pleasure to have helped you in any way I can. How old are you, if you don't mind my asking. Sounds like you've spent quite a bit of time in introspection, have a pretty good handle on the forces in your life.
ReplyDelete
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He cast spells for different purposes like
(1) If you want your ex back.
(2) if you always have bad dream
(3) You want to be promoted in your office.
(4) You want women/men to run after you.
(5) If you want a child.
(6) You want to be rich.
(7) You want to tie your husband/wife to be yours forever.
(8) If you need financial assistance.
(9) HIV/AIDS CURE
(10) is the only answer to that your problem of winning the lottery
Contact him today on: traditionalspellhospital@gmail.com
BE CAREFUL HERE NOBODY CAN HELP YOU HERE OR EVEN SUGGEST HOW YOU CAN GET YOUR EX OR LOVE BACK,ANY TESTIMONIES OF MOST SPELL CASTER HERE MUST BE IGNORE.BECAUSE MOST OF THEM ARE SCAM I MEAN REAL SCAM WHICH I WAS A VICTIM AND I GOT RIPPED OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS BECAUSE I WAS SO ANXIOUS TO GET MY WIFE BACK AFTER SHE LEFT ME FOR OVER 2 YEARS WITH MY 7 YEARS OLD SON JERRY,I HAVE APPLIED TO 7 DIFFERENT SPELL CASTER HERE AND ALL TO NO AVAIL THEY ALL ASK FOR SAME THING SEND YOUR NAME YOUR EX NAME ADDRESS AND PICTURE PHONE NUMBER ETC WHICH I DID OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND MOST OF THEM WERE FROM WEST AFRICA UNTIL I SAW A POST ABOUT MAMA ANITA SPELL AND I DECIDED TO GAVE HER MY LAST TRAIL.SHE ASK ME FOUR THINGS MY REAL NAME,MY EX AND MY EX MOTHER NAME AND $380 AND SAID MY EX WILL COME BACK IN 24HOURS, I HAVE PAID OVER $3000 ON SPELL CASTING AND COURIER AND NOTHING HAVE WORK FOR ME AFTER 3 DAYS I WAS THINKING ABOUT HOW MUCH I HAVE LOST SO FAR SO I SAID LET ME GIVE HER A TRY SO I CALLED HER AGAIN AND SEND MY REAL NAME,MY EX AND MY EX MOTHER NAME AND THE $380 BECAUSE I SWEAR IT WAS MY LAST TRY SO I WAS WAITING AS SHE TOLD ME TO WAIT TILL NEXT DAY AND I COULD NOT SLEEP THAT NIGHT BECAUSE I REALLY LOVE MY WIFE AND WANT HER BACK AT 9PMTHAT DAY I SAW MY WIFE ON LINE ON FACE BOOK AND SHE SAID HI AT FIRST I WAS SHOCK BECAUSE SHE NEVER TALK WITH ME FOR THE PAST A YEAR AND 9 MONTH NOW I DID NOT REPLY AGAIN SHE SAID ARE YOU THERE? I QUICKLY REPLY YES AND SHE SAID CAN WE SEE TOMORROW I SAID YES AND SHE WENT OFF-LINE I WAS CONFUSED I TRY TO CHAT HER AGAIN BUT SHE WAS NO MORE ON LINE I COULD NOT SLEEP THAT NIGHT AS I WAS WONDERING WHAT SHE IS GOING TO SAY, BY 7.AM THE NEXT MORNING SHE GAVE ME A MISS CALL I DECIDED NOT TO CALL BACK AS I WAS STILL ON SHOCK AGAIN SHE CALL AND I PICK SHE SAID CAN WE SEE AFTER WORK TODAY I SAID YES SO SHE END THE CALL IMMEDIATELY I GOT OFF WORK SHE CALL ME AND WE MEET AND NOW WE ARE BACK AGAIN I CALL MAMA ANITA THE NEXT DAY THANKING HER FOR WHAT SHE HAS DONE IN FACT I STILL CALL HER AND THANK HER AS MY LIFE WAS NOT COMPLETE WITHOUT MY WIFE PLEASE BE CAREFUL HERE I HAVE BEEN SCAM THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IF YOU WANT A TRUE LOVE SPELL THEN CONTACT MAMA ANITA (mamaanita.lovespellsolution@gmail.com) or mama.anitaspellcraft@hotmail.com
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