File this under the heading of good things to show young budding sociopaths or children with other anti-social personalities (aspies? autistics?), Sofia tries to teach her witch friend that she can use her powers for good rather than evil and that it is in her best interest to do so (also good brainwashing about victims giving people a second change despite their fears and reluctance to trust):
I just want my life to be a "Hollies" world. Most people here are not old
ReplyDeleteenough to remember the "Hollies," Radical Agnostic is. Some say they were
better then the Beatles. They were a peppy, fun, can do, enthustiac, group.
They did songs like "Bus Stop", "He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother" Caursel", etc.
If you're contemplating killing someone-or yourself-you just might not do it on
the day you listen to those songs.
There is also a chance that you might not do it on the day you listen to Manfred Mann’s “Independent Woman” and “Solar Fire.” The Byrds’ “Dolphin’s Smile” will have a similar, dynamic effect. The potent, recommended volume level to listen to these songs is 97%. If a person with a bow and arrow in Machu Picchu can change the world, imagine what a person with a fresh, “totally new” idea for a vade mecum can do.
DeleteAddendum: That is my electric wish for my novel creation: my vade mecum.
DeleteCute. Unfortunately it is difficult for people to trust once they have been tricked. It is difficult to earn people's trust to start with. It is 100 times more difficult if not impossible to earn trust back once it has been broken. I like my sociofriend, but this is one thing he will never get from me: my full trust. He has to earn it every single time we talk, every single time he does or says something that affects me. I don't try to unearth his lies and misdeeds but sometimes they are so evident that I cannot avoid them. I know this is tough love on my part, but he knows how I think and that I will confront him if something bugs me. It is for my sake but also for his, so that he can learn to understand better on a cognitive level what it is to be an empath. He can walk away whenever he wants, he knows I will not seek him if he does. I will miss him, but I will not interfere with his life. There is no revenge in my heart and no expectations. One day at a time. Strange, strange relationship. Strange, strange man.
ReplyDeleteI can understand the other (socio) perspective to your relationship - it sounds a lot like my relationship with my parents but hopefully with more respect both ways. I finally came clean to them about something I had been doing for a long time and a bunch of other lies I've told them over the years started to surface as well. They second guess everything I say and I still lie to them when I see an opportunity or need something or whatever. Sometimes they catch it, sometimes they don't. They haven't disowned me yet, so that's good.
DeleteI feel cornered by this exposure - this is why I don't think I'll ever willingly come out to anyone. As a habitual liar, I can't have people not believing me XD
I think eventually I would like to have a relationship like yours. The dynamic between me and my parents is a lot more parasitic - how much can I get from you before you cut off connection forever - than respect oriented. Perhaps if I had a friendship with someone who knew, it could be more about respect because I wouldn't be trying to get money or whatever anyway. It would have to be an ugly friend so I wouldn't be tempted to try to weasel other things out of them too (I've seduced quite a few friends and then lost them because after the seduction, when they're all attached and bothersome, I realized I didn't want them anymore), or a friend who makes boundaries really clear. Best of luck with your strange friend!
Well, you sound harsh, OldAndWise. I believe that it all amounts to a matter of perspective, or even interpretation of a person's thoughts and deeds. For instance, artistic people are always being misinterpreted in one way or another. You might want to ask yourself the following:
Delete"Unfortunately it is difficult for people to trust once they have been tricked."
Were you, indeed, tricked, or are you having a galling time in understanding the unfamiliar in him?
"He has to earn it every single time we talk, every single time he does or says something that affects me."
Do you, personally, have an issue with trust? Are you a person who doubts oodles and gobs?
"I don't try to unearth his lies and misdeeds but sometimes they are so evident that I cannot avoid them."
Were these lies, or did you ticket and lump them as such?
Bygone times show that many people inflate their skepticism bubble, zeppelin or dirigible (this is a hot-air balloon) when meeting the "unfamiliar."
It sounds like you are trying to enable sociopathic behavior by disguising it as artsy or quirky. That's great for us s/p's - by all means let's explain away all our flaws, harmful or not, as merely quirks. In the long run, even s/p's need to take responsibility for our actions and recognize, if we can, the impact we have on others if we want to be high functioning members of society.
DeleteNot to mention neurotypicals, who will get bled dry (excuse the vampire analogy here) if they let s/p's walk all over them and excuse all of our faults as artsy quirks.
I don't think OldandWise is being too harsh in the least!
@Sonja/ Old&wise, I’m curious. Is your boyfriend an Indian hacker working for a fake company called Bruder technology, calling people’s houses telling them he is from Microsoft, stealing people’s banking info, SS numbers, and other stuff? And then sharing them with other third parties, for some money/shared joy/or whatever…!
DeleteHe cries on demand too, especially when he’s caught. You two, both, are really cute. I agree, kind of strange too... So please help my curious mind to understand how, as you said a few days ago “are useful to him, and he is useful to you”. I mean, other than shared sociopathic/criminal projects what else you two do together? I love to know.
P.S. You are a little phonier than him. But still go well together.
Dorian, You chose to write about lies, and I accede that coming clean is the best route to take on the road you’ve described. Being second guessed is a fibrous and indigestible thing to deal with, and I know how that calibrates in real time/de facto world. Also, being cornered is unpleasant, to say the least.
DeleteYes, the disowning part would be a delicate issue for me as well, but being financially independent is always best, and one must be perpetually prepared for anything that might strike at any given time. I am framed at the present time (I am currently picturing a painting with all of its corners and bases covered), and my vade mecum will be an even greater fortifier as the future will show. Besides, relationships, whether these are between you and your parents or a friend, should never be about money or material possessions. Such things take something exclusively particular away from the whole construct, and they irreparably blemish the parent-child or friend ligature.
Turning the parasitic relationship between you and your parents into a respect-oriented one would surely change things, creating a more stable present and future. The dynamic would alter, and the parasites would disappear little by little.
“It would have to be an ugly friend so I wouldn't be tempted to try to weasel other things out of them too (I've seduced quite a few friends and then lost them because after the seduction, when they're all attached and bothersome, I realized I didn't want them anymore), or a friend who makes boundaries really clear.”
I laughed as I read your animated thoughts on befriending an ugly person just so you would not snitch other things from them as well (I actually pictured this peculiar scene taking place). However, some people, and I am not referring to you, can be what I call “stoolies.” In other words, I understand your perspective. And, true, I agree with your point about not keeping an overly attached and bothersome friend. That is always on my Menu of Life and Relationships in general.
“That's great for us s/p's - by all means let's explain away all our flaws, harmful or not, as merely quirks. In the long run, even s/p's need to take responsibility for our actions and recognize, if we can, the impact we have on others if we want to be high functioning members of society.”
I am giving carde blanche to the above, and keeping things in check should always be a work in progress. At the same time, which is something that needs to become a constant in my life, “to thine own self be true.”
“Not to mention neurotypicals, who will get bled dry (excuse the vampire analogy here) if they let s/p's walk all over them and excuse all of our faults as artsy quirks.”
There is no need to excuse your vampire analogy (again, carde blanche). The way that I see it, my bird’s-eye view of the world is split into two halves: vampires and “stoolies.”
Looking with my other bird’s-eye, there is another category, and based on what I have been reading in your comments, you’ve distinguished it.
Anon 8:00 a.m.:
DeleteWhy would you write such bogus things? You surely sound resentful, exercising some form of attack. I can't be sure, because everything is so disjointed.
http://www.truedemocracy.net/hj36/04.html
DeleteToo familiar to me. What a fucked up system is this?
Anon at 800am, no my friend is not Indian and he never cries.
ReplyDeleteWho is Sonja? Who is phonier than whom?
Once, you sound pretty coherent today!
ReplyDeleteGood questions.
I do not have a trust issue. This is probably something my sociofriend should have tried to make me believe, if he wanted to keep his mask on. I don't know if he tried or not, but if he did it did not work.
I have many healthy and resilient relationships. This is probably why I can sustain this strange one with my sociofriend. It is now balanced but it was not always the case.
And, yes he does lie, and not in the same way regular people do. It is not me imagining it. He and I speak about it. I confront if I feel the need, or if I think it will help him. Those conversations are pretty fun, as he does not try to deny it but tends to explain why he lied. Rationalizing us second nature to him. I like hearing how it works in his head. Always interesting.
“Once, you sound pretty coherent today!”
DeleteSome things can seem out of range at "check-in." This is as coherent as I can be in schlepping this plain point.
Now, there is such a thing as versatility of expression. You can easily find it in most airport shops, coming in the form of magazines, picture postcards and other publications. According to popular belief, an image or a clip can speak a thousand, luminous words if you’re able to “capiche” it.
While navigating through this terminal, I've been wondering: What motives could you have in writing so repeatedly that your friend lies? I suspect that there must be more than one. Coincidentally, I find that people say untrue things (let’s call them fibs for the sake of camaraderie) about another when they feel slighted in some way.
As to the rest of your comment, was that a Boeing 747-8 that took off and flew over your head when you cobbled this up? (Just a little bit of comicality or “levity,” as I call it).
I say that you carry a trust issue at baggage check-out. A dinky one.
"I do not have a trust issue."
DeleteEarlier that same day: "It is difficult to earn people's trust to start with. It is 100 times more difficult if not impossible to earn trust back once it has been broken. I like my sociofriend, but this is one thing he will never get from me: my full trust. He has to earn it every single time we talk, every single time he does or says something that affects me."
Nah, you don't have difficulty trusting and/or a trust issue at all, OldAndWise. Not even when you clearly state that you have it. Goodness me, I must be imagining things. And then there is that feeling affronted thing. Motives, motives...:D
Once/anon, maybe I do have a trust issue. It depends on your definition of trust. Different people have different definitions and expectations of trust, friends and love. When I spoke about trust before, I was thinking about the trust you give a friend. A good friend. A trust that is developed enough that you can share truths that you hide from most, and sometimes from yourself, without fear of the trusted friend hurting you with those truths. Somebody with whom you can be vulnerable without fear.
DeleteCan you describe what trust means to you?
“Deciding whether or not to trust a person is like deciding whether or not to climb a tree because you might get a wonderful view from the highest branch or you might simply get covered in sap, and for this reason many people choose to spend their time alone and indoors where it is harder to get a splinter.” L.S.
DeleteIt may be so, but I, for one, choose to trust a good friend. I am using this particular comparison because fully trusting someone means knowing that friend’s deepest roots, profound life experiences, which would be the well-formed and inestimable rings of the thick, grown trunk of a tree, along with the connecting branches leading up to the top of the tree. In my mind, this would be the zenith, marking the point of full trust.
The inability to trust blocks all hope, and occluded hope is the reason for marred dreams. I believe that sharing truths that one hides even from himself/herself with a well-trusted friend means reaching the highest meridian in this area of life.
“…without fear of the trusted friend hurting you with those truths. Somebody with whom you can be vulnerable without fear.”
There is a difference between purposefully hurting another and experiencing disagreements without bearing a single drop of malignancy. Having built the trust to be fully vulnerable without any fear means being at the top of the highest living tree that I know of (Hyperion). It means absolutely everything. At this point, you truly trust yourself without fear, which is the only road to trusting and keeping a good friend.
Can you unlock your trust issue, OldAndWise?
Still think I have a trust issue, Once? That is strange.
DeleteI like your description and analogy of climbing a tree. My sociofriend has proven to me that if I climb that tree for him or with him, he will shake it until I fall and hurt myself. Once he tried to put that darn tree on fire, and that almost broke off the relationship. So now I only climb as far as he does, and make sure I don't stay up there if he is not. One day at a time. Now that I think of it, the trust issue I might have is that I am still able to have a certain level of trust with him. Intellectually, or cognitively, I know I should not. People around me tell me as much. It is puzzling to my loved one that I actually still allow him in my life, and consider him a friend, albeit a special type of friend.
There are a few people that I fully trust in the world. I am very fortunate to count my husband of 20+ years as one of them.
What about you, Once? What is your story? I am still amazed to see you on this site. You have no concept of what a sociopath is, and people here always ridicule you. To the point where you blow a fuse and go away for a few weeks... what is this site bringing to an educated but emotionally unbalanced person such as you?
My loved ones...
DeleteIt is strange to hear that you view me as emotionally unbalanced, OldAndWise. Don’t confuse my inherent design, high intensity and determination with emotional asymmetry. In other words, don’t fall into a judgmental state of mind or into the trap that people around you might set through their mere “opinions.” Remain open-minded and employ independent thinking without wavering away from the truth.
Delete“You have no concept of what a sociopath is, and people here always ridicule you. To the point where you blow a fuse and go away for a few weeks...”
I do not want your statement to head into the direction of an argument, since it is quite clear that I have extensive knowledge on sociopathy. No explanations are necessary in this area, and that is a proven fact. What’s more, I don’t feel ridiculed by people at all. If they attempt to ridicule me, it is their weakness or undoing, not mine. Although blowing fuses is not my style or part of my innate design, it has been my “style,” so to speak, to leave for a few weeks. I hope that I will not have to repeat this again, OldAndWise.
“It is puzzling to my loved ones that I actually still allow him in my life, and consider him a friend, albeit a special type of friend. There are a few people that I fully trust in the world. I am very fortunate to count my husband of 20+ years as one of them.”
I see this as a good sign in connection to our primary discussion about trust.
Anon @ 8:00 AM:
ReplyDelete"It goes without saying that . On the other hand, most prank phone calls humiliate their recipients. Isn't there a better way? A way to share the mild amusement offered by a classic phone prank without threatening the dignity of any living being? The answer is "yes, click on the MP3 audio files below."
http://www.modernhumorist.com/mh/0202/positive/
I remember the Hollies. Oddly enough, I met my current wife (49 years and counting toward 50) because of a prank phone call my brother made. Life is odder than we can invent. Unless there were bad witches how could we appreciate a good witch?
ReplyDeleteAffirmative, Radical Agnostic. You do invent things, or let's just call them "fibs."
DeleteAbove average socios & scorpios surely trust everyone until they´ve been proven unreliable? That most likely never includes giving anyone enough information/power to cause real harm, because such trust maybe only their mother is given? Or "papa", if he´s not been classified "scumbag"..
ReplyDeleteI'm curious to hear your thoughts on this. I'm currently in the middle of an experiment and, being right there in the middle of happenings, I'm quite sure my perception is rather subjective.
ReplyDeleteSo I started a relationship without particular motivation (or at least I can't remember for sure what the incentive was) and decided subsequently to alter my attitude and behavior as to reflect my true personality (pathological liar, condescending comments, dark humor, exploiting circumstances, demanding complete control, etc. just to list the less unproblematic ones) while sustaining a polite and friendly contact through openness and mutual respect.
I do have problems with trust and bonding, however this person managed to gain quite a lot of my trust which did create a feeling of closeness I rarely experience toward a human being. Against all odds, I started to actually invest more (time&motivation) than I thought I would.
So now it gets tricky: Within this experiment I decided not to act parasitic, as in using and abusing the willingness to give for my own personal needs. I have encountered major problems in accomplishing this goal, since the subject in question buys me stuff I don't even ask for, tho stuff I actually want to have like cigarettes, alcohol, etc.
Has anyone tips on how not to give in?
I have thought of just ignoring this 'problem' and deciding for the handy rationalization stated above when a good friend of mine pointed out that a lot of people simply spend an unreasonable amount of resources for you if you need something. This sounded backwards to me at first, but after some thinking I realized there might be more to it.
Any suggestions/thoughts/questions?
@Smartie, I'd be very curious about your thoughts. I know you read this.
NM, Do you actually expect any credibility from readers after writing this ludicrous fabrication as well (the word "curious" appears quite frequently in this message below and the one that you wrote above)?
Delete"Anonymous May 21, 2015 at 8:00 AM
@Sonja/ Old&wise, I’m curious. Is your boyfriend an Indian hacker working for a fake company called Bruder technology, calling people’s houses telling them he is from Microsoft, stealing people’s banking info, SS numbers, and other stuff? And then sharing them with other third parties, for some money/shared joy/or whatever…!
He cries on demand too, especially when he’s caught. You two, both, are really cute. I agree, kind of strange too... So please help my curious mind to understand how, as you said a few days ago “are useful to him, and he is useful to you”. I mean, other than shared sociopathic/criminal projects what else you two do together? I love to know.
P.S. You are a little phonier than him. But still go well together. "
Writing bogus nonsense that does not reflect real life/real time will not get you far. Evidently, your motive stemmed from feeling slighted, when, in fact, that person was just being comical.
And by the way, cut back on alcohol and cigarettes.
@2:25, I find it amusing how you assume I'd write without logging in because I used the word 'curious' twice just like the poster @8:00.
DeleteI can assert you that I don't write anonymous comments without making clear it's me.
"Do you actually expect any credibility from readers (...)"
Expecting any credibility on the internet is rather naive, especially if no real life contact exists.
Listen, the reason I wrote the comment above (@1:03pm) is that I have come to a point in thinking which is void of actual improvement. I need new thoughts, fresh points of views, a different interpretation. Whether readers view me as credible or not doesn't matter as long as they answer. Like you did, and I thank you for doing so.
"Writing bogus nonsense that does not reflect real life/real time will not get you far. Evidently, your motive stemmed from feeling slighted, when, in fact, that person was just being comical."
See? You mention motives in combination with something that hasn't gotten anything to do with being motivated and I have something more to think about: I'll check my and his motives.
"And by the way, cut back on alcohol and cigarettes."
That's exactly what I was talking about. I smoke and drink much more just because someone pays it for me. I can't simply say no to free stuff - or rather I don't want to refuse it. Call me greedy if you want.
Hey NM.
DeleteRegarding the smoking and drinking, you could try actually saying to this person what you said in your last paragraph above. Tell them they'll be helping you cut back. If they have your best interests at heart, they'll likely stop buying you those items so often (if they like buying you stuff, they might switch to gifting other items though ;) ).
Hi SD,
DeleteThank you for your advice, however it's not that easy for me. I don't really want to cut back on cigarettes (alcohol isn't a problem, I don't drink much anyways), and I have a habit of asking for a cigarette every now and then since I have practically no money. I have no problem with getting what I want when I ask for it, but he gives me a full pack of cigarettes instead of a single cigarette, and lately he does so without me asking for it. I have a problem with that, tho I'm not even entirely sure why. (I thought I knew but then anon above brought me back to the topic of motives...)
I tried telling him that I ask for cigarettes even if I still have some but he doesn't seem to be bothered by that. I'm hesitant to stop him completely from giving me cigarettes because, as I said, I have almost no money to fund this 'hobby' on my own. I just don't get why he would give me so much without an apparent reason...
I mean, I thought people who regularly buy stuff for others without a hidden agenda only exist in films & stories designed to subdue the less conformistic members of society. It almost drove me mad in the first month that I couldn't figure out why he does that.
I have somewhat resigned by now... It's maybe just his way of showing me his affection. He's a narc after all...
"I smoke and drink much more just because someone pays it for me."
DeleteNM, Notwithstanding motive, that person should not be buying any cigarettes and alcohol for you. Find the strength to quit smoking (as also mentioned, you don't have the money for it) and to stop drinking excessively on the occasions when it does happen.
:D @ NM - sometimes people do nice things just because putting a smile on someone's face gives them a warm fuzzy feeling.
DeleteDon't ask me to rationalize that one: I can only assume it's the mirror neurons at work.
And, sometimes, people do nice things just to put a smile on someone's face. It's the true self at work.
Delete@Smarty:
Delete"(...) that person should not be buying any cigarettes and alcohol for you."
This sounds like you have legal concerns (correct me if I'm wrong), if so, you should take into account that I don't live in the US. Here, alcohol and cigarettes can be legally bought with age 16, with the exceptions of 'hard' alcohol like vodka which can only be bought by adults (legal age 18) plus if your parents allow it you can legally drink beer and wine at an age of 12. We're much less strict on societal drugs than the Americans are.
"Find the strength to quit smoking (as also mentioned, you don't have the money for it)"
I don't have many principles, but those which I have are carved in stone until I decide to discard them. One of this principles is, that my decisions are my decisions. I don't change them without valid reason.
I have decided to start smoking again. Period.
And as for the money you misunderstood me, I've got enough to stay under half a pack of cigarettes per day. However through the 'generosity' of my bf I smoke almost a full pack of cigarettes per day - which I won't be able to upkeep with my own money if this experiment ends.
"(...) stop drinking excessively on the occasions when it does happen."
That's something I actually work on at the moment, with tenable success. I'm a master of self-restraint.
"And, sometimes, people do nice things just to put a smile on someone's face. It's the true self at work."
That's not tangible for me. Especially not as I tend to look at him without specific expression or just move on as if nothing happened. I rarely smile when people give something to me which I didn't expect or demand.
PS: Your comments used to be much better thought through. Everything okay with you?
@SD
Sounds plausible, most people describe feeling better when they smile and mirror neurons trick the brain into thinking it does what it sees. Thank you for pointing this out to me :)
Tho there are still some discrepancies I can't get past. He should be smart enough not to expect me smiling at him for something I don't particularly like (in this case, ignoring that I told him he should watch his money when I'm around) but he doesn't change his behavior. Is he hoping to get a smile out of me if he just repeats it over and over again? Or does he feel guilty?
You know, I don't fully buy his "generosity" as an innate personality trait either, especially after all he had told me. He's as antisocial as I am, if not worse.
He's a narcissist, and I suspect at least some sociopathic tendencies. Is it possible that he's so fucked up that he would go on and on giving me all that emotional stuff and gifting me material stuff even if I don't respond with gratitude or any other normally expected behavior and then blame me for the burn-out he'll get? I'm somewhat worried I break him...
I had to chuckle at the thought "psycho worries 'bout narc" and figured you might find that funny too. xD
Okay maybe I think too much. But I know how hazardous a relationship with me can be... so I'm somewhat concerned I make it worse by trying to make it better.
LOL NM - I'll take thinking too much over thinking too little any day.
DeleteYou (generic) can guess and suspect what motivates other people, but you can never truly know. Sometimes it just comes down to a judgement call.
In the end, you (specific) are responsible for what you do and he is responsible for what he does. If you've told him straight out where the hazard lies and he ignores it... I'm afraid at that point he takes his share of responsibility (whether or not he chooses to accept it at the time or afterwards).
If it were me, I might give him one last warning and be pretty specific about it: "this is where the road most likely leads, you have been warned and you are now travelling on your own recognisance". Or else I'd just walk away and file it under the heading of too much hassle. But I'm not you - you are you.
Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. That would seem to apply in this case, bearing in mind what you've said about him ;)
As to "psycho worries 'bout narc" I grinned, yes; but it's not out there - I don't confuse muted with silent. Cognitive concern (i.e. recognizing the hazard to another person without necessarily having any emotional link to them) seems consistent with what I've read and experienced.
SD, Thinking is the essence of life but I've got to slow down sometimes or I end up believing I'm a god or some bullshit like that... last time it happened I thought I was able to control events in my surrounding by thinking the 'right' thoughts... tho that's already years ago. xD
Delete(It's still fascinating to watch my mind spin logical constructs which might actually work under certain circumstances, but I decided not to fall for a tempting thesis of this kind)
I know it's not possible to look into the mind of someone else, which is why I decided to demand open communication from the start of the relationship to see if it provides me with more information to form a more profound idea of his inner workings. I hope it does 'cause it takes a lot more energy than just observing.
I'm well aware his decisions are his own responsibility, but I hope he chooses the right decisions... I don't want to give up on him, at least not when it's just starting to get funny.
I try to explain to him certain aspects of my personality with specific examples, but in the end it's his decision of course.
Einstein's definition of insanity always reminds me of that cartoon about two laboratory mice I used to watch when I was a kid. :D
And yes it does apply - in more than just this case, on both sides. I guess we're both crazy and as such a perfect match xD
I don't exactly know whether I'm a psychopath or not, but it's the most plausible (albeit least advantageous) explanation at the moment. I'd prefer if it was just kind of a long lasting depression or ptsd or something else that can be treated. If it wasn't for the biological implications I wouldn't really care.
That 'worrying' is rather to be seen as a worry about breaking a possession I enjoy. Like a portable CD player. I get angry if it breaks. Last one met sledge hammer because it refused to play my music any longer. I mean, it's unlikely this would happen to him too, but I'm still concerned that I might cross some limits... people can be fragile if you hit the wrong (or right) points, even with words.
“I'll take thinking too much over thinking too little any day.”
DeleteSansDire, Einstein also believed that “we cannot solve our problems with the same ‘thinking’ we used when we created them.” So, in this intricate, finespun duality, we create problems, but then, we "should" also create solutions.
“Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. That would seem to apply in this case, bearing in mind what you've said about him ;)”
Having broached this subject, what does insanity mean to you?
NM, I don't have any legal concerns, but I can understand the situation you’ve described.
Delete“…those which I have are carved in stone until I decide to discard them. One of this principles is, that my decisions are my decisions. I don't change them without valid reason.
I have decided to start smoking again. Period.”
I can relate to your construct, which I call a “personal philosophy” in my life. It’s tantamount to having a craftily designed fabric, expanding upon it as each thread becomes added to its well-chosen, daedal composition.
“That's something I actually work on at the moment, with tenable success. I'm a master of self-restraint.”
Success is the condiment that peppers a strong foundation as one decides to do something worthwhile, and not just a momentary undertaking. It grows.
“He's as antisocial as I am, if not worse…He's a narcissist, and I suspect at least some sociopathic tendencies.”
It sounds as though you are the right person to truly understand your friend, and although you’ve asked for advice relating to this predicament (i.e., your puzzling issue describing his tendency to give such things as cigarettes and alcohol), I believe there is no right or wrong way of handling it. You should just be yourself with him, and see how he reacts. I think of it as experiencing two chemical substances, being prepared for both positive and negative charges (the negative charge not viewed as being prosaic, though). Explaining certain aspects of your personality with specific examples should quite well work for him in the instances you’ve detailed about cigarettes and alcohol.
“That 'worrying' is rather to be seen as a worry about breaking a possession I enjoy. Like a portable CD player. I get angry if it breaks. Last one met sledge hammer because it refused to play my music any longer. I mean, it's unlikely this would happen to him too, but I'm still concerned that I might cross some limits... people can be fragile if you hit the wrong (or right) points, even with words.”
Your thoughts remind me of specific experiences in my life, having to do with a friend of mine. Although I cachinnated as I read the part about the sledge hammer, instead of seeing it as breaking something and experiencing loss as a result of it, I have been seeing it as different “reincarnations” (i.e., these “reincarnations” carry both positive and extraordinary, negative charges, since life is definitely composed of both), furthering and building onto something that I call a work in progress.
Having said that, if you were to ask about my favorite time period of the past, I would choose the Renaissance age, and surely not just because of the beliefs (a more recent one would be Figuration Libre). What is yours, NM?
Nihilistic Mind, Was bedeutet es, zu sagen, Man kann die Natur nicht ändern? Ebenfalls, Was ist Ihre Lieblingswort?
Delete@Smarty:
DeleteI thank you for this thorough comment and I've got to say I resonate with almost all of your statements. It's always a delight to read your comments :)
As for my favorite time period, I don't have one. I live now and today, for the present and to set up tomorrow - there's not much room to dwell on the past which took place before my time.
You have mentioned the Renaissance as your favorite time period quite a few times now, and I admit my knowledge is meager at best. Would you like to tell me a bit about it?
@Korb:
"Man kann die Natur nicht ändern" bedeutet im allgemeinen, dass all Jenes, was bereits im Vorhinein und ohne menschliches Zutun, also von der Natur so beabsichtigt, nicht ohne weiteres von Menschenhand geändert werden kann.
Ich persönlich schwanke zwischen der Annahme, dass naturgegebenes erst gar nicht geändert werden sollte, schließlich hat die Natur sich über Jahrmillionen in ein homöostatisches Gleichgewicht eingependelt welches deutlich störungsanfälliger zu sein scheint als die Menschheit in vorangegangenen Epochen zu glauben bereit war, und der Annahme, dass der Mensch um des Fortschrittes Willen als entscheidende Hürde zur Transzendierung und zur Abgrenzung vom bloßen Tier sich gezwungen sieht auch diese letzte Barriere zu überschreiten um so wahrhaft zum Übermenschen zu werden.
Eine sehr interessante, aber leider auch komplexe und umstrittene Thematik, über die ich, wenn Ihnen das Recht ist, ein andermal schreiben werde - und wahrscheinlich lieber auf Englisch.
Mein derzeitiges Lieblingswort ist "juxtanukleär", was in der Histologie die Lage einer sich neben dem Zellkern befindlichen Struktur beschreibt. Allerdings beschränkt sich mein Gebrauch dieses Wortes auf wenige, spezifische Kontexte.
Ein anderes meiner Lieblingswörter, welches ich deutlich häufiger verwende ist "integral", wohlgemerkt als Adjektiv.
NH, I would like to add the Dark Ages to the Renaissance period. While the latter was all about rebirth, novelty and intriguing discoveries, the former paved the way to all kinds of breakthroughs. Writing, art, sciences, competitions, costumes, and both men and women were joined to form a riveting epoch in human history. For instance, during the torridity of a buoyant joust, the audience was both sanguine and anticipative, since only one will win. With the craftiness of a well-held brush, a Renaissance painter would capture one of these raring instances, or a jester would discover a new method to captivate.
Delete“The elements of the Universe were considered to be water, air, fire, and earth. These elements directly corresponded to the body, so the elements were thus linked; phlem-water, blood-air, yellow bile-fire, and earth-black bile. The bodily elements were called humors. [Alchemy]
Many women put a false "beauty mark" on their face. This mark was made of a circular patch of black fabric. When one applied it to the corner of one's eye it indicated passion, for above the lip it indicated a quality of coquetry, and the forehead indicated grandeur. [Atypical]
In jousting there were actually 3 weapons permitted; the lance, the axe, and the dagger/sword. There was a document created in the 1300s that made it acceptable to cease war if there was a major joust scheduled.” [Outre]
Although it is not "ideal," so to speak, this is the source for the quoted material: http://faeriemusejo.blogspot.ro/2009/02/25-odd-facts-about-medieval-times.html.
Cute.
ReplyDeleteGood advice too.
If you want forgiveness, you need to take responsibility, stop the destructive behaviours and make it up to them.
When people see that genuine effort, they are usually quite happy to give another chance.
What really gets on my nerves though, is when people skip over the whole taking responsibility, making it right and stopping the behaviours part and try to manipulate the other person into "forgiving" them (aka letting them get away with it consequence free).
Be it with pity plays, endless denial, blame shifting, or inspirational quotes extolling the virtues of forgiveness and being the bigger person.
If forgiveness is not granted from these manipulation attempts, they usually start rambling how the person is vindictive, petty. Keeping grudges whilst they, the poor, sweet, misunderstood lambs, have been going out of their way to earn the forgiveness...
The funny thing is that I have seen some go to Herculean effort trying to manipulate, whilst doing everything to avoid actually taking the healthy approach.
If they don't take responsibility and make it up to you, then clearly their ego is far more important than you.
Clearly they are not sorry at all and will almost certainly repeat it.
Then usually play the victim that you keep attacking them with things that happened in the past, even though you said you forgave...
The pathetic narcissists don't realise that they have not won at all by manipulating the other person to forgive them. The other person is losing their trust and usually growing more resentful every time.
That is how love dies. How connections are broken.
The saddest thing in the world is a narcissist that cries about how badly they want love, whilst being too busy continuing their destructive behaviours, rationalizing it to themselves and patting themselves on the back for successfully manipulating, to see how toxic and self sabotaging they really are.
In a healthy relationship, trust must be earned and maintained.
"Be the bigger person" has to be the worst piece of advice I have ever heard. Your worth should not be measured by how much abuse you can take, swallow down the hurt and rage and do nothing about it.
One way ticket to codependence.
You don't owe absolutely anybody your forgiveness.
Is that you Kat? If so (or if not) I started a blog.
Deletehttps://whitemaleproblems.wordpress.com/
You wrote 'whilst' twice, not that there's anything wrong with that, but it stood out. Funny word, whilst.
I like these comments sections. If someone posts anonymously, I automatically try to connect what they've written with someone I know. My brain is built for pattern recognition. Unfortunately, my need to 'fit' every post into a pattern leads to errors, which if you're Kat (if you're not I'm sorry I must sound insane) then so began the inception of our interactions.
Whoever you are, I get the feeling that you're describing a specific person with whom you have issues that remain emotionally unresolved. I see (erroneously?) an intensity that requires a force of will that in me, can only be dredged up by strong feelings.
If that's the case (or even if I'm rambling incoherently), then I've got someone in my life who is similar. She is poison. Delicious, delicious poison, and whether I keep taking tastes or not, I think that I'll come away from the situation more whole than before. Why do I still feel something, after all I've endured, all I've done? What is so intoxicating about someone who boils down to no more than a relentless assault on my rationality?
Somebody, You keep dishing out your ratty, trashy lies using various names in this post (you're really obvious), showing your shady thinking and way of life. You're attempting to paint a mid-high-class woman as a low-class "broad," as you would express yourself, and that looks really bad on you, to say the least (that is your world, not hers, and your present and past record shows it). The woman in question is not your girlfriend, there is no issue such as pregnancy (as it reads in the link you've included), and she lives thousands of miles away from you. So, everything that you're trying to paint in cruddy and spiteful colors makes absolutely no sense. This comment and link boil down to no more than a trashy display of bitterness and resentment. This independent woman, whom you clearly don't understand or can possibly relate to, is not right for you. Find someone coming from your own, decrepit world.
DeleteInteresting. Rather than argue with you, I suppose I'll just come clean and tell the truth. I haven't commented on this post, apart from the one to which you're replying. The subject of the blog post I wrote is, in fact, my ex-girlfriend, who I have not confused with the person I think may be 'Kat'.
DeleteNow, I can only wonder if the faulty pattern recognition which I've described could be at play in your own mind. I have no idea who you are, or who you think I am. All I know about you is that you're in Romania.
Hello Somebody :)
DeleteIt is a pleasure to meet you.
Thank you for the blog entry, it brought a smile to my face.
"Delicious, delicious poison, and whether I keep taking tastes or not, I think that I'll come away from the situation more whole than before."
Oh yes!
I had several narcissistic people in my life, my mother being a covert narcissist and the most toxic of them all.
All of them are poison.
All of them want my forgiveness and to be allowed back into my life.
All of them try the exact same tricks.
It is disconcerting how alike they are in their behaviours.
But you are absolutely right, there was one particular person, my Lola if you will, who inspired me to say what I did above.
A textbook narcissist, if there ever was one.
This person made me feel with an intensity I had never experienced before.
There is no love or intense feeling left. Even though I am, intentionally, rather toxic to him now and everyone around me advises me to be rid of him entirely...I don't want to simply discard him.
I remain the optimist.
If he and the others find the strength to address their toxic behaviours and make it up to me, they will be welcome back into my life.
I accept nothing less.
Until then, we will continue the dance. They will continue trying to manipulate me and I will continue holding up a mirror to them, laughing as I am being the "sadistic ice queen".
I would love to hear more about you.
Anonymous 9:54, thank you. I appreciate what you were trying to do, but I think you misunderstood.
He was not implying that I am Lola. He was implying that the person I was involved with, who inspired what I said about forgiveness, might be rather similar.
Kat
It's a pleasure to talk to you as well, Kat.
DeleteI suppose the best way to introduce myself is to relate my parallel experience. Perhaps the most efficient way to structure it is by describing my perception of what she did, what I did, what I think I learned, and what I'm doing now.
She has an infectious, engaging personality. She acts with an intensity that pulls you in and demands more of your time and attention than you're used to, and in so doing makes you feel that you're the center of their world, that you're important to them.
At the same time, she was always a little out of reach, just enough to make me feel that I needed to give more, despite her protestations to the contrary. She used that as a way to deny responsibility for all she asked. "I didn't put a gun to your head." was a common phrase of hers.
So, I gave and gave and she took. I loved it and hated it. Somehow, what she was able to do for me was worth all the pain. Delicious poison indeed.
So, what have I learned? I have weaknesses, powerful ones that can be exploited. I'm not as careful as I thought I was, not as good. I've learned to be more honest to myself, and how I'm not as honest with others as I've claimed. Everyone has ideas about their capabilities, their strengths and weaknesses, but until they're tested a certain amount of uncertainty is warranted.
Now, I'm still interacting with her. She is, after all, a boatload of fun. I'm emotionally distant, though. There's not so much desire as there is interest. I'm more rational, more cold, and with her these are not bad things.
I'm glad you enjoyed the blog post. Perhaps one of the best traits of my ex is to approach any situation with levity. Life is as much fun as you're willing to make it.
"At the same time, she was always a little out of reach, just enough to make me feel that I needed to give more, despite her protestations to the contrary. She used that as a way to deny responsibility for all she asked. "I didn't put a gun to your head." was a common phrase of hers."
DeleteSomebody, You're rationalizing this point, making it sound as though she purposefully planned it to unfold in this manner. What you need to know and understand is that some things occur innately in her, free from prior contemplation or explicit intent. On the whole, you're dealing with nature.
"I'm more rational, more cold, and with her these are not bad things."
Have you considered the possibility of a misinterpretation on your part in this aspect?
Thank you for sharing that, Somebody.
DeleteLola sounds like quite the character.
Charming, mannipulative, passive- aggressive, narcissistic.. her and I would probably have gotten along like a house on fire. Until we tried to set each other on fire, at least :)
My ex was similar in so many ways, but I suspect drastically different in others.
I am extremely attracted to "goodness". Show me a genuinely kind, strong, compassionate, honourable, honest, charitable person, who is able to formulate and discuss interesting ideas...and I start swooning.
Looks, age, social status, etc...become irrelevant. By no means do I expect perfection, but to me they are truly beautiful, fascinating.
The rarity with which I meet such people of course makes them all the more so.
It is a huge weakness of mine.
One that my ex exploited, by painting himself as being such a creature. It was a beautiful painting indeed. But upon closer examination, it turned out to be composed primarily of the dirt and slime of his delusions and lies.
But in the meantime, I spent an enormous amount of time and energy helping and supporting him through one crisis after another, after another.
Blinded myself to the truth for far too long.
Even now, regardless of the enormous amount of evidence to the contrary, he still attempts to paint himself as this creature...the man I suspect he wants to be. Who, unfortunately, bears no resemblance to the real him.
It is both sad and hilarious watching him luring other people with the same lies and setting himself up for more failure.
"Everyone has ideas about their capabilities, their strengths and weaknesses, but until they're tested a certain amount of uncertainty is warranted."
Absolutely!
Taking a brutally honest inventory of one's strengths and weaknesses in itself requires more strength than most can muster.
Everyone also has weaknesses they never quite knew... until they are used against them.
Some are fortunate enough to have those pointed out by someone who can see through them and cares enough to help, rather than exploit. UKan, a brilliant sociopath I met on this site, was particularly good at that. He and his wife were immensely helpful to me.
At least you and I seem to have learned from our relationships. We have accepted our mistakes and the weaknesses which led us to make them.
I have come to see that the narcissistic are too busy cushioning their ego to learn anything.
How can they avoid repeating a mistake if they are too busy blame shifting and coming up with rationalisations and excuses, to admit they made one in the first place?
That is precisely why I will not allow them into my life until they address their behaviours and put in enough effort to make me want to forgive them.
I have no need for more bullshit and drama.
Hope to hear more about you.
Kat
Kat, I am extremely attracted to "goodness". Show me a genuinely kind, strong, compassionate, honourable, honest, charitable person, who is able to formulate and discuss interesting ideas..."
DeleteGood for you. Creation is superior to destruction. That's why until destructive behavior is channeled toward something constructive, something that will curb death via simplistic exploitation, a numbers game in which microorganisms that create life are considered disposable. Stupid and shortsighted.
Oops. "Until. . . a numbers game in which microorganisms that create ALL life . . ." We are screwed. No one, plant, animal, etc., is disposable. The fool, not the king, in the tarot begins and ends the journey of enlightenment. We each grope towards the light best as we can.
DeleteSomebody, This is Anon at 9:54 AM. Like Anon at 2:38 PM indicated, there was a misunderstanding or misconstruction when that comment was posted.
Delete"Anonymous 9:54, thank you. I appreciate what you were trying to do, but I think you misunderstood.
He was not implying that I am Lola. He was implying that the person I was involved with, who inspired what I said about forgiveness, might be rather similar."
Anon at 10:19 AM: Your reply sounds like a misconstruction, too.
Hello Kat,
DeleteOh, I'm sure you'd love Lola, everyone does. She's almost universally likeable, and when she chooses to pursue someone she is extremely effective and single -minded. I must admit that it was nice to be the focus of that much attention.
Goodness is easy in theory and difficult in practice. It's like putting in all the work required to design a bridge, but lacking the time, energy, and resources to build it. The only tangible bit of goodness you can hold is a piece of paper, with lines and pictures.
Goodness is often on my mind, but I wouldn't say I'm good. To do that, I'd have to stop imptoving, and that's not what I want. All I can say is that in my experience, treating people well leads to better results than treating people poorly. Whether people realize it or not, being a decent person is often in their best interests.
I also like to think in virtues. I'll claim patience and prudence, but I struggle with temperance and humility. Generosity? I'll give freely when I have enough for myself, begrudgingly when I lack. Compassion is difficult, as I'll help people in need but I don't share in their emotions, I can't.
I don't think I'm ideal, for myself or anyone else, but I'm not that bad. I can't tell whether I've become less jealous and possessive, or if I just don't feel as strongly for the person I'm with now. I hope it's confidence and high self-esteem that keeps those dark, intense feelings away, but I don't know. I don't fall easily, I won't do that again. I prided myself on my rationality, and oh, how far I fell.
Apologies if I've rambled, stream of consciousness happens sometimes.
I had a hard time listening to it - mostly because I hear "that tune" a lot these days - kid music. It's hard for me to stay tuned in -
ReplyDeleteI think it's an interesting idea to think about ways in which we contribute to society in a "net positive" way. Even if it is for very self serving reasons.
I think that my blunted emotional empathy makes me a good friend when the shit hits the fan. I've "extracted" a couple of female friends from abusive situations. I've been the first responder to a couple of vehicle accidents. And, if you are one of the people I "choose," and are experiencing LOSS - I'm talking heartbreak, deaths, etc. - I'm pretty good at getting them through it.
What do I get out of it? A window into what neuro-typical people experience.
In a way, I guess it helps me to figure out what I am and, maybe, what I "should be" feeling. It helps me to "pass" and it gives me credibility as a "good friend." All of this adds up to pleasant relationships in which I am "valued."
Funny how Once/Smarty replies or nearly every post but this one...
DeleteMaybe Smarty is trying to play hard to get?
DeleteTiming and a sufficent amount of talent are EVERYTHING.
ReplyDeleteThat's why Elvis and the Beatles were so sucessful. They started trends and
innovated. Nobody had ever been exposed to something like them before.
Dylan too. Though I must confess that people's appreciation of Dylan always
went over my head. I couldn't understand the meaning of his songs but I am no
means an intellectual.
M.E. also tried to get on the Sociopath train. It's payed off reasonably well, but
the trend is waning. Sex and "relationships" NEVER wane, so people can always fall back on that.
What people essentially want is optimism and HOPE. Enthusism and Pep.
Something to look forward to. People would KILL for that.
Timing, talent, innovation, enthusiasm and hope. To me, these are the 5 fingers of my right hand, the palm being a map with a bona fide legend. The five fingers of my left hand reveal….Well, let’s just say that I’ve used this analogy before, and, coincidentally, I was met with some strange looks in the room.
DeleteI, for one, am drawn to the spearhead or pioneering, and relationships are also "front-page." Being my earliest memory, coupled with the realization of also having a left hand, I constantly look forward to it. But, across-the-board, I believe that most people want something that will change “their” own lives forever. "Leviathan" http://www.festival-cannes.fr/en/archives/ficheFilm/id/AD70F7AC-03AE-45E7-824C-E828CBC2C160/year/2014.html
Since I was young mommy told me I was born to make great things on earth and that the other kids must submit to my will. I always knew I was special I was felt better than most of the people. I will make the world a mirror of myself and I will help guide these civilizations to advance in all fields of knowledge. I'm so special! Women should go on their knees to kiss my feet and make a line to have sex with me.
ReplyDeleteYour little narcissitic brat.. you are nothing but a pile of human garbage
Delete1st
ReplyDelete(and don't you dare call me liar)
Most olde norse-men loved human sacrifices, almost as if nature, plants & trees, needed plenty of blood to grow firm. Their all-knowing/all-seeing one-eyed wargod craved this, it pleased him. He´d chuckle with delight when given such "treats". They did not have christmas trees back in the days, they had corpse-trees with "gifts" hanging from every branch..
ReplyDeleteMany US citizens do not know that the very famous Gandalf-character is based on "Odin the wanderer", wise man with staff. But the original is far more sinister & creepy than the first mentioned gentleman.
ReplyDeleteI guess it's a good thing that most of you are here on line instead of at the twin peaks restaurant in waco texas or the big ranch somewhere in mexico. There's no much hope, is there? You can take the boy and girl out of the jungle but it's going to take a lot of GMO to take the jungle out of our nasty little souls.
ReplyDeleteI loved the cartoon. Can I be the naughty with who turns it around for good ? ;)
ReplyDeleteYou are.
DeleteWhat is M.E. doing RIGHT NOW? Do her significent others know she's
ReplyDeleterunning this blog?
I have noticed that people learn to mistrust as they grow through their experiences. Everyone hurts and gets hurt, not just sociopaths. I have noticed that those who seem like they have the toughest barriers around them are the easiest to ruin, they are desperately seeking for comfort. At the same time, people move on for the damage There should be a balance in how you treat people, if you expect them to stick around. When the negative outweighs the positive for them, then they bail (depending on their definitions of positive and negative, some might love pain). The way the pain you caused affected them correlates with how much time before they get over it. At this point there are a few people that are still on their guard around me, even when i say something as simple as "hi". There are others who enough time has passed that they forgot the pain I caused them and remember the friendship we used to have. I think they want to remember the happiness I brought to their life over the pain.
ReplyDelete" I think they want to remember the happiness I brought to their life over the pain."
DeleteThat's true for me. I most definitely want to fully embrace the good times. What else is there but dark fuzziness and pain? But until the person who willfully hurt me owns up I can't/won't risk another encounter. Because I cannot forget pain, not that kind. It leaves its indelible mark, as they say. But I can forgive and let the past go, not hold the person hostage in a million petty ways for past mistakes. That would be self-defeating: if I don't let go and trust again then the relationship can't grow any deeper or further outside the box I want to inhabit. Because I would then always be holding back, scrutinizing, instead of simply being there, in the moment, going with the flow of them and the universe.
ReplyDeleteGreetings My dear friends. I am so happy to share this wonderful testimony about Dr Brave, my name is Mellisa Jefferson I am 32 years old, I live in Florida USA, I am happily married to Sowers Jefferson with three kids we got married in 2004 I am a banker but due to some certain family conditions I had to quit my job so I could have time for my family my husband works in a construction company not long ago around may 2015 my husband started to behave in a way i could not understand, i was very Confused by the way he treat me and the Kids. Later that month he did not come home again and he called me that he want a divorce, i asked him what have i Done wrong to deserve this from him, all he was saying is that he want a divorce That he hate me and do not want to see Me again in his life, i was mad and also Frustrated do not know what to do,i was Sick for more than 4 weeks because of the divorce. i love him so much he was everything to me without him my life is Incomplete. i told my sister and she told me to contact a spell caster, i never believed in all this spell casting of a thing. i just want to try if something will come out of it. i contacted Dr Brave for the return of my husband to me, he told me that my husband have Been taken by another woman, that she cast a spell on him that is why he hate me and also want us to divorce. then he told me that he have to cast a spell on him that will make him return to Me and the kids, he casted the spell and After 27hours my husband called me and He told me that i should forgive him, he Started to apologize on phone and said That he still loves me that he did not know what happen to him that he left me. it was the spell that Dr Brave casted on him that brought him back to me today, i and my family Are now happy again today. thank you Dr Brave for what you have done for me i would have been nothing Today if not for your great spell. i want You my friends who are passing through All this kind of love problem of getting Back their husband, wife , or ex boyfriend and girlfriend to contact him on this email: bravespellcaster@gmail.com , web site:http://enchantedscents.tripod.com/lovespell/ . and you will see that your problem will be solved Without any delay or effect cell number +2348072370762 Thanks for reading..
I'm half way through the first book, I'm no longer convinced that there is such a thing as sociopathology. I can identify, I have thought that the cluster symptoms are just normal human reactions to trauma, like, learning to dissociate and becoming slightly disaffected. It's very fascinating, I'm studying counselling and work in mental health, I think much more of the population than has been identified exhibit many of the traits, that the DSM is shit, and that regardless of how you get there, if you have a brain, you end up doing what is good for you and what you need to function/ survive. No judgement apart from thinking/ wondering how it might feel to become more relational and integrated inside. Not sure where to post my comment on the book, just posted it here.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteAm here to testify what this great spell caster done for me. i never believe in spell casting, until when i was was tempted to try it. i and my husband have been having a lot of problem living together, he will always not make me happy because he have fallen in love with another lady outside our relationship, i tried my best to make sure that my husband leave this woman but the more i talk to him the more he makes me fell sad, so my marriage is now leading to divorce because he no longer gives me attention. so with all this pain and agony, i decided to contact this spell caster to see if things can work out between me and my husband again. this spell caster who was a woman told me that my husband is really under a great spell that he have been charm by some magic, so she told me that she was going to make all things normal back. she did the spell on my husband and after 5 days my husband changed completely he even apologize with the way he treated me that he was not him self, i really thank this woman her name is Dr Aluta she have bring back my husband back to me i want you all to contact her who are having any problem related to marriage issue and relationship problem she will solve it for you. her email is traditionalspellhospital@gmail.com she is a woman and she is great. wish you good time.
He cast spells for different purposes like
(1) If you want your ex back.
(2) if you always have bad dream
(3) You want to be promoted in your office.
(4) You want women/men to run after you.
(5) If you want a child.
(6) You want to be rich.
(7) You want to tie your husband/wife to be yours forever.
(8) If you need financial assistance.
(9) HIV/AIDS CURE
(10) is the only answer to that your problem of winning the lottery
Contact him today on: traditionalspellhospital@gmail.com
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ReplyDeleteHOW I BECAME RICH AND FAMOUS TODAY.******** i am Mr Philip Alonso from California , i am giving a testimony of how i Become rich and famous today... i was deeply strangled up by poverty and i had no body to help me, and also i search for help from different corners but to no avail... nothing comes out. i see people around me getting rich but to me i was so ashamed of my self so i ment a man on my way UK he was very rich and he was a doctor so he told me something and i think over it so the next day i looked up and i keep repeating what he said to me. if you want to get rich quick and be famous" you need to cross your heart and do what is in your mind so i tried all i could in other for me to do as he said so later on i told my fellow friend about this same thing then my friend was interested in my suggestions so i decided to take a look in the internet and i found an email address of this great fraternity ( iluminatirichesthome@gmail.com we decided to contact them and fortunately for we both we did as they instruct us to do and later they told us to get some requirements and all the rest... so this initiation took us just three days and later on the great fraternity gave us $25000 to start up our lives.... and now am testifying that if in any case you want to join any great fraternity all you need to do is for you to contact them because they are legitimate and they do as what they instructed them to do okay so email them now at (iluminatirichesthome@gmail .com) or you can call or text them on +2348112163945.
ReplyDelete