This was an interesting old comment from an old post:
I love Jung's concept of the "Shadow". It is the part of our identity we split off from our own consciousness because it is too threatening to the persona we access (constructed to a greater or lesser degree based on our need to calculate vs be sincere) .To have our shadows exposed feels like an annihilation of self- and the sociopath knows this. You are correct- a few select individuals who are not sociopaths seem to have an eerie knowledge of how to "map" the Shadow sides of new acquaintances. However they rarely employ this talent for nefarious purposes. But it is a formidable skill set to have- and anyone who has had their own Shadow exposed (or have been threatened by exposure) tend to have a reflexive defensive reaction to people who have developed this gift- sociopathic or otherwise.
The best "tell" I know for whether someone with this gift is sociopathic or simply insightful is their use of flattery whenever you look at them funny for saying something that to outsiders might seem innocuous, but has pierced you to the core. The sociopath has made a note of your reaction and tries to switch the subject by propping up your wounded ego. The insightful person is more likely to stay present with you and not immediately pretend they did not see what you both know that they saw. They aren't necessarily interested in learning more- they happen to just reflect back to you what they have seen.
In contrast- the sociopath becomes obsessed with knowing every last detail about you as a way of learning the "Shadow" part of you that you hide even from yourself. They want to know what buttons to push should they ever have the need to ruin you, and also for the purposes of inducing your confusion and anxieties when you deviate from their plan to make you one of their sycophants.
The gift of having your life turned upside down by a sociopath is in having your "Shadow" self exposed. When this happens, your comfortable illusions about your identity are shattered. This experience will either destroy you or strengthen you, depending upon your own resistance to the lessons you chose or refuse in the aftermath of this traumatic experience.
I love Jung's concept of the "Shadow". It is the part of our identity we split off from our own consciousness because it is too threatening to the persona we access (constructed to a greater or lesser degree based on our need to calculate vs be sincere) .To have our shadows exposed feels like an annihilation of self- and the sociopath knows this. You are correct- a few select individuals who are not sociopaths seem to have an eerie knowledge of how to "map" the Shadow sides of new acquaintances. However they rarely employ this talent for nefarious purposes. But it is a formidable skill set to have- and anyone who has had their own Shadow exposed (or have been threatened by exposure) tend to have a reflexive defensive reaction to people who have developed this gift- sociopathic or otherwise.
The best "tell" I know for whether someone with this gift is sociopathic or simply insightful is their use of flattery whenever you look at them funny for saying something that to outsiders might seem innocuous, but has pierced you to the core. The sociopath has made a note of your reaction and tries to switch the subject by propping up your wounded ego. The insightful person is more likely to stay present with you and not immediately pretend they did not see what you both know that they saw. They aren't necessarily interested in learning more- they happen to just reflect back to you what they have seen.
In contrast- the sociopath becomes obsessed with knowing every last detail about you as a way of learning the "Shadow" part of you that you hide even from yourself. They want to know what buttons to push should they ever have the need to ruin you, and also for the purposes of inducing your confusion and anxieties when you deviate from their plan to make you one of their sycophants.
The gift of having your life turned upside down by a sociopath is in having your "Shadow" self exposed. When this happens, your comfortable illusions about your identity are shattered. This experience will either destroy you or strengthen you, depending upon your own resistance to the lessons you chose or refuse in the aftermath of this traumatic experience.
It's a matter of being more aware rather than strengthened.
ReplyDeleteStrength is often brittle.
Awareness allows you to flow like water.
I don't agree much, Sociopaths are using anything they can, even not so dark side of someone or anything that might upset them. They can transform something easily and make it almost a lie to target you. It can happend if they don't find your dark side...
ReplyDeleteLet's be clear, there is no real logic and they are not so skilled to see someone's dark side. They just use anything/anyword they can and is coming out of someone to break him/her.
I do believe that when sociopaths try to break someone, they are FIRST speaking to themselves. They feel relieved just to send in the wind a "breaking" sentence... they don't really care how you receive it in fact, they have already forgoten what they said.
This kind of sentences are, I guess, coming directly from their unconcious part, the important ACT is to break the sociopath thought (it is his thought and maybe not the reality) that someone could be better/more sucessfull/nicer then him.
The sociopaths speaks or do, he/she has the feeling to break someone, and then feel relieves. It is an INTERNAL system, the oustside person is just an object, that's why it can be nearly anybody.
It is all about the sociopath WITH himlself...using others to calm his own anxieties.
That's why it is very important for people in relation with sociopaths to understand very clearly this parameter, a sociopath is not acting against you as a particular person, but just because you are around, like an object which is totally interchangeable.
If people understand this they can feel little more released...it's not about what you are or do..not at all...and you'll see that if you try to fit to the sociopaths remarks, it will never change nothing.
A sociopath remark is a "ONE SECOND" attack, partly unconcious, it has not any serious ground.
That's maybe why also many sociopaths doesn't understand why we get upset whith their remarks...like "ohhh don't need to cry, I didn't say nothing..you always feel like a victim for everything".
I'm nearly sure also that some sociopaths, in the next second, after a breaking sentence, realise what they have just done. Even if you didn't notice it and felt not any damage from it.
They might wonder why they have told such a strange thing, or that they could have been unmasked...I don't know.
With sociopaths nothing is never serious. It is a way for them to protect their behavior as a "light" act. If we take them as serious people, then this is the begining of the problems for them.
I wonder how are thinking sociopaths alone...could they be upset front of a sucessfull or gorgious person on TV? like trying to break this person front of the TV "pfff she speaks like a duck anyway"...
I guess so.
Once you've understood all this you have understood that sociopaths are in big trouble with THEMSELVES. Sad but true.
It has nothing to do with anybody else.
So just look at them like people having trouble with THEMSELVES.
I'm sorry but I have to disagree. First, it's not that the sociopath doesn't understand why the person is hurt, he/she simply doesn't put himself in their shoes. It's not "why are they hurt?" It's more like "so what if they are?" If a sociopath is trying to hurt someone, the words that hurt are definitely not forgotten. These are the words he will save. The ones that have had a response. He will dig around the word to find out why it was so painful, and find out how he/she can exploit it.
DeleteSociopathy (if we can call it that) is not about how much you can hurt someone, or about feeling relieved. It's about how easy/hard it is.
Life gets pretty boring , I'm sure most of us can relate. Some of us have toys, games, and other hobbies to pass the time. Sociopaths like puzzles. Imagine a puzzle in front of you. This puzzle can think on it's own , do as it pleases, and has a firewall. Once you get too close, it will push you away and reshape making the puzzle harder. Which each mistake you go back a few steps , have to replan, and march forward. A puzzle that defends itself and goes on the attack if you push it.
You the hero of the game. Your mission is to solve the puzzle, gain access to the command system, and influence it your liking. (Puzzle can fight back even after invading the mother board, be extra careful not to raise eyebrows). Some people wanna see how fast they can make someone cry, fall in love, angry, etc.
Long story long. It's about the journey, learning to appreciate the difficulty of it, and reaffirming that you can break into any safe. Even one with its own intelligent computer.
The sociopath don't put himself in someone shoes because his behavior is very firstly an internal behavior, which have to deal with himself.
DeleteHe has a deep hole, certainly maybe not conscious but painful, and his energy is directed to try to fill in a way this huge hole. It means that there is no interest/meaning/energy to be directed to other people.
It seems that you are speaking mainly about a deep (family/love?) relationship with a sociopath? In this case it is different than a friend, that you can see or not see.
I guess that to be exposed all the time to a sociopath is quite harder. And exactly that the fact that the sociopath can't drop you when he wants, and have you back, might highly disturb him.
I do believe, personally, that sociopathy is mostly about feeling relieved (for the sociopath) by using "other" to unload something (an hidden pain that can't go out by the "normal" way?).
I think that ME Thomas in an interview spoke about the "sadism" issue and it seems that it's not a proper definition for sociopaths.
What you are telling about the puzzle example, is happening to someone who is not aware of the sociopathic traits of the "puzzle". It means that this person didn't enable its own firewall, which anybody has somewhere.
The questions we could ask is: why do you stay close to such a strange puzzle?
I use to say always that if I put oil on my body, sociopath can't grab me.
The will grab me the first few times when I'll have no oil...then it will become more difficult.
For me the access, is when the sociopath can't grab you anymore and knows it, and can sometime start to unveil because he chose it (not because the mask fall down by accident).
But for me the interest of this "access" is not to control the sociopath, but to have a rather balanced relation.
It might be possible with a friend, but with a very close sociopath, not sure.
I do think that the best way is first to turn to ourselves and see why our firewall is deficient (if it is).
The Molotov cocktail with sociopaths, is the relation with a quite deficient firewall people.
Sociopaths can't control part of themselves, and their unconscious is waiting that others will stop them.
A friend of mine (girl) had a good but more and more abusive friend (girl too). She decided to be more far, and then to stop any relation.
The friend sent a sms to say "I'm sorry if I have been little to far sometimes, but you should have stopped me, that's what a good friend must do"...!!
A good friend is not a policeman, or an educator. The friend girl should be responsible of her own behavior, but mostly can't control herself on certain things.
How childhood trauma affects health across a lifetime
ReplyDeleteChildhood trauma isn’t something you just get over as you grow up. Pediatrician Nadine Burke Harris explains that the repeated stress of abuse, neglect and parents struggling with mental health or substance abuse issues has real, tangible effects on the development of the brain. This unfolds across a lifetime, to the point where those who’ve experienced high levels of trauma are at triple the risk for heart disease and lung cancer. An impassioned plea for pediatric medicine to confront the prevention and treatment of trauma, head-on.
http://www.ted.com/talks/nadine_burke_harris_how_childhood_trauma_affects_health_across_a_lifetime
I disagree. I think sociopaths place too much emphasis on shadow. We are a mix of different reactions to different external stimulus. Our reactions are not so much our worth or who we are, but trying to survive and get what we need in that moment.
ReplyDeleteThat's why my sociopath ex didn't get to me in "pointing out my flaws" because I knew certain behaviours he referred to and why I did them were not what I would normally do but what I felt I had to do to restore "homeostasis" for myself in the given situation.
Sociopaths make childish judgments because they lack the intellect to see possibility and that things have nothing to do with them.
Having said that, they also tend to point out my positives much more than I acknowledge, as well as factors about myself I could "use to my advantage" but don't want to think like an evil and exploitative minion in the game, so I don't.
I think all the talk about games and objects is their way of getting "one up" on whatever is eating them inside. It's a constant battle against the message that is telling them "you are nothing" and "you don't belong here, nobody loves or needs you" and "you are worthless and deserve to be abandoned".
They take all of this out on anyone around and also feel a deep shame, which they hide, for what they are. Instead going mad, detached and laughing at the pain of others which represents them joining this internal predator, to feel more powerful. Something was lost somewhere along the way growing up that made them associate love with safety and positive things... it was more "safe" for them to become the predator which they have positive associations with. Then they dance around the new "threats" - love, bonds - acting like they will never ever harm them again as they once did.
That's been my experience anyway. With about 10 of them.
The sociopaths didn't receive the most important "unconditional love", certainly from their parents. They are unhappy children who couldn't figure out what is "free love", whithout an interest or a condition. "I love you because you are my child and it was my wish to have a child"... how can it be possible for someone who didn't decide ti have a child, or someone who haven't learned what is love and having a child for the wrong purpose.
ReplyDeleteThen, if you feel that you haven't been loved properly (and you do need it to build yourself) then you'll be unhappy, and couldn't bear other people hapiness.
The highest frustration is : why, me, I couldn't be loved? while others are...
It's like being in a candy shop, and the only one who is not allowed to take one.
Sociopaths are angry on the whole world...because it is difficult to angry the parents and it would lead nowhere.
The answer is to accept that the parents were not really responsible eather (for different reasons) and that THERE IS a possibility to rebuild yourself with a therapy, understand what happend and how and why you reacted in the wrong way to what happend to you.
IMO people don't tell they reveal. You just have to know how to draw it out of them and be aware when it happens. Sometimes it might take hours of seemingly pointless small talk, but eventually BAM! they will say the one thing that shows who they really are.
ReplyDeleteIt is a stupid thought. People are not 1 "truly thing" as you put it. The 2 hours you were talking before Dat Thing came out, is also them.
DeleteYou sound a bit paranoid. Like everybody is hiding their true selves. Nothing is true. No one is 1 thing. What does seem true, is that you seem to have a need to "control" others in form of, like "I know your secret.. ".
P.
I totally agree... I have also seen the one thing that shows.
ReplyDeleteNobody can't control himself 24 hours a day 365 days per year.
Some of them can even tell, when they know you very well, that they are tired to hide but have to do it necessary.
I don't think many people have real shadows. It's just the old part of our brains. If you own all that you do without shame then it's hard to blackmail you. If you view everyone as a selfish animal with a social veneer, you're rarely surprised. If it's the other way around your eyebrows may constantly be hitting your hairline depending on your skills of observation.
ReplyDeleteYes. Its just those goddam narcs that dont get it. They think they are clever and can "hide". Fcking idiots.
DeleteEh, I'm always looking for my shadows. I had one of them exposed by a probable sociopath - it could have been accidental, but it was just so precise of an emotional breach, though too subtle to explain to others.
ReplyDeleteMy reaction to having that part of me exposed was minor in comparison to how angry I got about the fact that people can so easily get away with so much deception.
So much that I've decided to just learn the game. If you can't beat em, join em. And then beat em. It's much more fun being a realist, nihilist and machiavellian than an idealist.
I've kept my dark side hidden even from myself, but a few people around me know it's there, but they too seem to have hidden their knowledge of it from themselves.
Lately I've developed a certain obsession with power and how to use my personality traits (particularly my analytic mind) to obtain more of it.
This experience reminded me of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utEEe97Ir4o
I've become stranger. It's an adaptation to letting reality in.
This sounds wrong. You are letting the sociopath destroy your sensitivity. You are letting him destroy who you are. You really don't have to join them. It is a lonely life.
DeleteWhen you are the target of a sociopath, one of the toughest thing to do is to retain your emotional palette. You are tempted to dim all your emotions because the sociopath is so gifted in trigering them, and amplifying them. The destructive emotions and the ones that make you want to live forever can cohabitate and that is very confusing to you.
It takes a lot of introspection to sort it out. Try it. You will learn so much about yourself and you will be able to remain who yiu are, perhaps even a better version of yourself, you will be able to follow your passion with greater focus. Please do not obliterate yourself.
It would take a lot more than that to "destroy" my sensitivity. You'd have to physically destroy that portion of my brain. I've merely developed the partial ability to dim it at will. I'm still working on developing it further now that I know what the feeling of it is. It's a pleasurable, entertaining, as well as bizarre experience.
DeleteIf you want to temporarily suppress empathy, raise your testosterone and find your inner sense of sadism - just don't act on it. The predatory instinct is also another place to bring more of it out. Then, with these states of suppressed emotions risen and combined, use them to be fearless and confident. Develop a conscious understanding of emotional and social intelligence so that you can take your ego out of any emotional situation and instead just observe and adapt fluidly. I think that anger has a lot to do with it as well.
It's weird - I've actually gotten it to the point where I can just keep staring people in the eyes. It's so strange, because it's the opposite of what I normally am. It's like it's comfortable to just keep staring people down until they look away. But, I have to activate this state first.
I'd read about the Stanford Prison Experiment to get an idea of what sorts of parts of you that this state of mind can activate so that instead of mindlessly tormenting/dominating people, you're using the feelings of relaxed power generated to approach people fearlessly, charismatically and make connections.
Honestly, this is a power I'd love to share with a lot of my timid, introverted friends. But, you have to kind of be willing to take the red pill when it comes to the reality of widespread suffering, unfairness and meaninglessness.
Your response interests me. I imagine each responds differently when they take the red pill - I have used this analogy myself.
DeleteI saw your path, or one like it. For several months I walked a precipice. On one side, utter bleakness. Mere predation. Survival of the fittest. And the means to survive.
The other: a fluffy world of blindness.
My precipice broadened as a articulated my own vision for existence: a vast and rich life. I see that freedom is the power to choose. Freedom is in some degree a function of power - the real power of the integrated self.
I know my genetic heritage is of empathy. I am wired to enjoy connection.
And I have learnt that society is a context, rather than a constraint. A factor in our choices rather their determinant.
I enjoy this blog for the clarity of insight I can see and share in this regard. The shared enjoyment of freedom.
The keys are self-acceptance, clarity and acting in accordance with one's own nature. There, there is freedom. In relinquishing attachment, immersing oneself in experience and enjoying to the full one's own self.
And for someone of my genetic heritage, it does mean engaging with others.
Yet I find some of the practices you mention to be useful, too. The ability to step out of a social context emotionally helps one understand what others are seeking to achieve.
But I am ever optimistic. Experiences are datapoints. Emotions are vehicles for changing consciousness. Each moment is perfect.
Ashes to Ashes
ReplyDeleteWhat if you're perfectly aware of your own "shadow" and you don't try to ignore it? What kind of person is that? I'd say either self aware or honest... But I don't know.
ReplyDeleteI saw pillie the other day. Funny she just happened to walk right by me, must be a coincidence.
ReplyDelete
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ReplyDelete
ReplyDelete“Happiness, Love is the key to LIFE”.
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ReplyDeleteTREMENDOUS AND WONDERFUL THINGS THAT HAPPENED IN MY MARRIAGE
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I was browsing through the net one day when a came across on how Lord Micheal saved a woman called Mandy Diana marriage, i aid let me give him a try on this, i never believed in spell casting before i thought that they were all scam, when i contacted him, he told me not to worry that he will help me, surprisingly he told me that my husband will come back to me in the next 24 hours, with a heart full o doubt, it was a shock that my husband came back to me and started begging that he is sorry, and now we are happy once again. Thank you LORD MICHEAL, and if you are going through this kind of problem, here is his email LORDMICHEALSPELLCAST@GMAIL.COM.He can help you solve your problem.Thank you LORD MICHEAL for restoring my marriage.