From a reader:
Hi. A friend of mine recently told me she did some research on sociopaths and she's very worried that I share a lot of the same traits. I agreed I would go and see a therapist, and a sociopath wouldn't willing go to therapy, correct?
I've always known I was different from other people, but I watched and I learned and I acted. When I was younger I always assumed everyone else did the same. That society was formed by everyone watching and mirroring each other. When I became a teenager I realized my friends were truly genuine, and I was different. This didn't bother me however, I just knew I was different.
When I was 14, I became "depressed." My parents were extremely worried because I was no longer focusing on school, my friendships were failing, I stayed home sick many days each month. I became very frustrated with myself and I didn't understand why going to school and putting on a happy face and pretending to be interested in everyone else was so easy for my friends. It seemed exhausting to me. Soon I became bored of feeling tired and empty all the time, so I started to self harm. I cut my arms a few times. I didn't hate myself or feel miserable or anything like that, I just wanted some excitement. I wanted to see how my parents would react. The doctors continued to prescribe medicine and treat me for depression until I convinced them I was doing fine. It was like I knew it was wrong to make my parents believe I was seriously depressed and/or suicidal, but I just wanted to try it anyway. It was like it hurt them more than it hurt me to harm myself, but I didn't care.
I also have a tendency to lie, but only if it will help me to get something I need or want. I don't go out of my way to tell lies, just for fun. I just know that I'm very convincing and I recognize that it's not right of me to lie, but it works so I don't stop.
The last thing I've noticed about myself is that I've always been able to get obsessed with people easily. Not people I know personally, but celebrities or even fictional characters. Certain celebrities or characters I just like right off the bat. There's something that draws my attention to them. This liking quickly turns into a full blown obsession.
When I become obsessed with someone, say a character in a movie; I constantly watch only their scenes in the movie. I'll watch them over and over and start to mimic their behavior. I study how they act and start to try to think like them. I sometimes change my voice to talk like them. I begin dressing like them. I never bring them up to family/ friends but the obsession is always in the back of my mind. I find people I like and I try to mirror them exactly. The strange part is I'm usually very good at it.
Now that I've told you everything I believe is relevant to the situation, I'm wondering if you can offer some insight.
Hi. A friend of mine recently told me she did some research on sociopaths and she's very worried that I share a lot of the same traits. I agreed I would go and see a therapist, and a sociopath wouldn't willing go to therapy, correct?
I've always known I was different from other people, but I watched and I learned and I acted. When I was younger I always assumed everyone else did the same. That society was formed by everyone watching and mirroring each other. When I became a teenager I realized my friends were truly genuine, and I was different. This didn't bother me however, I just knew I was different.
When I was 14, I became "depressed." My parents were extremely worried because I was no longer focusing on school, my friendships were failing, I stayed home sick many days each month. I became very frustrated with myself and I didn't understand why going to school and putting on a happy face and pretending to be interested in everyone else was so easy for my friends. It seemed exhausting to me. Soon I became bored of feeling tired and empty all the time, so I started to self harm. I cut my arms a few times. I didn't hate myself or feel miserable or anything like that, I just wanted some excitement. I wanted to see how my parents would react. The doctors continued to prescribe medicine and treat me for depression until I convinced them I was doing fine. It was like I knew it was wrong to make my parents believe I was seriously depressed and/or suicidal, but I just wanted to try it anyway. It was like it hurt them more than it hurt me to harm myself, but I didn't care.
I also have a tendency to lie, but only if it will help me to get something I need or want. I don't go out of my way to tell lies, just for fun. I just know that I'm very convincing and I recognize that it's not right of me to lie, but it works so I don't stop.
The last thing I've noticed about myself is that I've always been able to get obsessed with people easily. Not people I know personally, but celebrities or even fictional characters. Certain celebrities or characters I just like right off the bat. There's something that draws my attention to them. This liking quickly turns into a full blown obsession.
When I become obsessed with someone, say a character in a movie; I constantly watch only their scenes in the movie. I'll watch them over and over and start to mimic their behavior. I study how they act and start to try to think like them. I sometimes change my voice to talk like them. I begin dressing like them. I never bring them up to family/ friends but the obsession is always in the back of my mind. I find people I like and I try to mirror them exactly. The strange part is I'm usually very good at it.
Now that I've told you everything I believe is relevant to the situation, I'm wondering if you can offer some insight.
Start researching Borderline Personality Disorder. You don't sound sociopathic at all.
ReplyDeleteyeah I got diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and some of that sounds like me. I don't think the specific disorder really matters though because people are going to call you a "sociopath" just because you hurt them or whatever and you're going to get annoyed when they do.
Deleteyou have way more of a conscience than I do though, I don't think it's wrong to lie at all, I just try to avoid it because it's awkward if you get caught. and when I get in my "hmm I wonder if I'm a sociopath" moods I try to think of ways to use it to my advantage instead of going to therapy and stuff.
but no matter what type of person you are my advice is the same which is figure out who you want to be and be that instead of wasting time on the labels unless you genuinely want some kind of psychological treatment or something
Borderline is still a cluster B disorder, I feel like there's probably a decent amount of malleability in there. I'm sure if interviewed correctly you could make a sociopath seem a like a narcissist, etc.
DeleteYes. Narcissist, borderline or sociopath. Lots in common. Cluster B. From a non cluster B person, very hard to differentiate. ...!!
DeleteI believe I know one of each but it definerely is a spectrum.
My ex-brother in law. I have known him for 35 years. A narcissist. One of his daughters is most likely a sociopath. To be continued..
The daughter of a friend. Known the friend for 25 years. I have known her daughter for 19 years. Since birth. The daughter fits in the borderline category.
And my socio friend. 5 years.
They all are such interesting people. They are not the main course of life, but they are definitely the spice.
Oh... I hope you guys are ok with being the spice.
DeleteDo you know why you stare?
It's because we want to eat you. We want to devour some part of you whole. ;)
Deleteif you said that spice thing to my face I'd probably get mad at you but from a distance like this it's nice to be appreciated :)
DeleteIt very briefly irritated me, too. She is making a generalization based upon how sociopaths fit into her own obsessive, internal narrative on the subject.
Deletehaha exactly. and besides, if i wanted someone to be that into me, i'd want it to be just me, not my "type" lol
Delete"I didn't understand why going to school and putting on a happy face and pretending to be interested in everyone else was so easy for my friends."
ReplyDeleteYou realized others have that spark and you don't. I think that hit me a lot earlier, but I'm sure it varies.
"It was like it hurt them more than it hurt me to harm myself, but I didn't care."
Yeah
"The last thing I've noticed about myself is that I've always been able to get obsessed with people easily."
Sudden, intense interests. Do you lose interest easily? Maybe not quickly, but after a while you notice some flaw or something you dislike that gradually quashes your obsession?
--
Honestly, I'd tentatively say yeah you are. How would it make you feel if you found out you're a sociopath? If it's happiness then reconsider, if it's neutralness or maybe a relief at finding your own kind, then yeah sociopath.
Excuse me, I didn't understand, if she's happy for being a sociopath, then she actually isn't?
DeleteYou didn't say how old you are now, or how far you've gone educationally.
ReplyDeleteYou don't seem overly shy and you fit in easily. If you are employed and
have a support system, why not try acting? It seems you do so already,
and you might be able to make a living at it.
Your writing skills are good. So if you are more of an introvert you could be a
writer.
She said something that is exactly what I do, about getting obsessed with real people or fictional characters and then mimicking them. Why we do that? I think there should more Posts about this sociopathic trait on the blog.
ReplyDeleteI thought that this has been discussed at some length. I do this, as I believe many others do, to help us "blend." Robert Hare talks about how extreme cases will spend time mimicking faces they've seen to help understand and better react appropriately - to avoid being singled out as "different." I often do this to help become "one of the group" - usually to get something out of it (mostly in a work context these days - but I'm 50ish).
DeleteAs to why we pick some people and not others, I would suggest it's likely that it's contextual. In my case I would study different "role models" to help me navigate situations - find the people who are good at getting what they want, study what they do and then do it. Now that I'm older, I've cultivated my own public persona that is generally seen as "a nice and friendly guy who is happy to help."
@A: you commented a few posts back that cannabis helps you "feel" more - I concur - I really noticed it when I had children. I find that I relate to them better.
As to the OP - like many others have said, the label might be interesting as a way to do research and understand how you are like or not like other people, but don't let that label define you. Keep working on understanding yourself and decide what you want from life - and be prepared to change it a few times.
Sometimes I feel like I have so many identities, but I know that the reality is that I don't have a identity at all. I think real good actors /actress must have it with them as well
DeleteHaller! :)
DeleteGood to hear from you again. How have you been?
@copycats: I don't do this. I think I am *way* cooler than the vast majority of fictional characters. (Except for Iron Man and possibly Sherlock. They're cooler than me.) ;)
I do, however, embody a bewildering array of characteristics that are often outright contradictory. I am whoever I want to be, at any given moment. And yet- those who truly know me will attest to the fact that I consistently manifest certain core traits. For instance, I am almost always cocky, lol.
Unlikely. I strongly believe in being original to the bone, but the public persona is another story. Whether people know me to be so or not, it is just a modus operandi, or mode of communication on my part. Like so:
Deletehttps://youtu.be/atpbdTo9nno
@A: Been working like a rented mule (some might say it's a good description). Things have finally slowed down a bit. :)
DeleteI might say that my "public persona" is my default face - kind of like the Mayor from Nightmare Before Christmas - only I have more than two presentations. Some call them masks. I don't feel like any are particularly any more real or false than any other - they are what is needed and appropriate for the situation (so long as I'm not too lathered up).
Are you a sociopath? Am I? What is a sociopath anyway? I don't know.
ReplyDeleteI keep asking myself these questions and sometimes I very strongly feel that I am (a sociopath) and then I get this feeling that perhaps I'm not. Maybe I'm capable of feeling love and intimacy and all of that (because that's my fantasy). But then I get irritated by people and just want to be alone and I'm back to where I started.
You say you get obsessed over some character and it reminds me of myself and what I do. I've noticed that I don't have a strong sense of self but I rotate between different characters. It's almost like I play a role and in order to do so properly I try to adjust everything in my life to fit that role; the way I dress, what I do, my work, my food etc. Like right now I'm going through this artist period and this one involves art obviously but also this bohemian lifestyle. Long walks, more sleep, feminine dresses, red wine, candles, sad music and cigarettes. This is perhaps the favourite of my characters because during these periods I'm the most relaxed.
If I didn't know myself better I would think that this is it, I've found myself. But this too will pass and who know, perhaps next week it's time for the tomboy me. I'll ditch the art and start doing sports, wearing trainers, eating omelettes and pushing myself until I cannot take anymore.
Yes, this is my life. Sort of fun but also quite exhausting.
Weird question to you guys who identify with a sociopathic nature, question perhaps related to the posts above where you say you study and imitate people or characters.
ReplyDeleteDo you know if you have "the stare"? Have you been told that you do? Do you unconsciously stare at people to the point of making them uncomfortable? I dont mean consciously. Most people can stare on purpose and they use it now and then under certain circumstances.
I was at the receiving end of the stare from my socio friend the other day and i started wondering if he realizes that he does stare. I will ask him next time he does. It does not bug me. I find it endearing actually, because i know him so well, but other people may not react the way I do.
I dont know if it has any relation to being sociopathic, but yes. Some folks definitely find this unnerving, as I have very piercing blue eyes. Sometimes I do it on purpose, because I rather enjoy making people squirm a little.
DeleteLikewise. My ex (Ma Haller) used to get annoyed with me for it. I do it reflexively sometimes and with purpose at others. It is fun when people get unnerved.
DeleteI don't know if I do it. I've seen people get a little unnerved so I guess I do. On the other hand knowing this I've kind of trained myself to avoid eye contact. Last thing I need while ringing up an old lady at the pharmacy is to have her get all nervous.
DeleteI've seen other people I suspect are sociopathic do the predator stare. I think they understand they're doing it. It's funny when we see each other though, there's a subtle mutual recognition like a smile but without any real change in facial expression.
Of course people with other conditions can stare too. I recently met a girl with OCD who won't break eye contact with me. She doesn't seem to realize it though.
Do you know why you stare when it is not conscious?
DeleteI'm really interested in answers to this question too. My ex stared at me in this way three times: the first two before he made his move on me (I liked the second the best, I held his gaze for ages, felt very intense), the third time was the last time we had sex. He asked me what I was feeling then. I said I loved him, but it was more that I knew it would be the last time and the strange concoction of emotions that entailed, which certainly I could not have explained easily. "Love" seemed the easiest thing to say. It must have been sadness, loss.
DeleteThe predator gaze has since intrigued me. I stared down a possum (lol) the other night just to play around with a primal kind of communication. Little bugger was disturbing our campsite :p
I've been told I stare too. A couple of times I've caught myself doing it (doesn't mean I'm actually looking at whatever I seem to be staring at - I might be thinking about something else entirely and my eyes happen to rest in that direction). And I'm not socio or OCD.
DeleteLOL @ North re the possum
The "predatory stare" can indicate that we want the person we are staring at- or that we wish to challenge them.
DeleteNorth- that is staring through someone. We all do that when deep in thought, or distracted
I've been told by many different people that I tend to stare at them and/or at others. I haven't spent much thoughts on it until about three years ago, when I was convinced for a short time that it might be linked to the inability of most people to read my facial expression. Turned out to be not connected. People just don't read facial expression as precise or conscious as I do.
DeleteSince then I've observed three major kinds of stares from me, the one SD mentioned (lost in thoughts), then the predatory one (when I want something, or want someone to do something specific, tho that stare isn't necessarily a conscious decision) and the 'glitch' stare which happens more often than not when I talk to someone or just listen - or when I study the look or some other details of someone.
The latter is what gets the least neutral reactions (some like it, most find it unnerving) and at the same time skips my radar most often. It's currently the most interesting for me, I theorized it might be kind of a neurological malfunction (maybe linked to an attention shift?), or probably a by-product of my forgetting to blink in an appropriate manner.
As for the exact reasons, I'm not sure yet. What I've realized tho, is that most people don't seem to realize how they look at someone most of the time, until they get told it's strange.
Many people have pointed out how I stare including my mother. Also random people or men sometimes mention this.
DeleteSince I became aware of my sociopathic traits I also became more aware of the stare. If I'm just casually chatting with someone I sometimes remind myself not to stare and might look elsewhere once in a while to seem 'normal'.
If I try to rationalize this then the cause of the stare could be the inability to react to the other person's emotional state emotionally (not rationally).
I usually have a slight smile when I listen/talk to others. Sometimes it's intentional (as in not to look evil) and sometimes natural (sort of laughing at the other person or the situation in my mind).
I was once talking to a guy whom I knew most likely to be a sociopath and I tried to pay attention in the way he looked at me. He stared and had a constant smile. It didn't bother me but I think it could bother someone who is insecure. When I was having a monologue for a while I noticed that he had these micro movements back and forth in his eyes as in trying to scan me to see if I was talking the truth. I've never seen anyone else do that quite so intensely.
I know someone who stares at the sun during an eclipse, so to speak. It takes a special kind of stare, I believe.
DeleteNM, very helpful. Food for thought. Lost in thought, predatory and glitch stares. I think there is a forth one.
DeleteLola, the smile was definetely part of the stare last time it occured but we were not talking to each other at the time. I know a stare has occurred before but I can't remember under what circumstances and if a smile was there or not. I have to pay more attention in the future.
Since I can't read my socio friend with my heart, I have to read him with my brain. It is like learning sign language. So i keep asking questions on this blog to give me an idea as to how I may be able to better listen and read.
North, how did those stares feel predatory to you? In what way?
@OldAndWise,
DeleteI thought they were sexual at the time, at least the first two. The first time he looked at me in that way was in the kitchen at work - I looked away because it felt inappropriate and I wasn't sure at that time. The second was, as I say, very intense. Compelling. I wrote in my journal that night something along the lines of "Goodness me, those deep brown eyes. He was never planning to look away. Never." I had held his gaze for a very long time. The stare felt a little sexual at the time; I mean it was clear the interest between us was sexual. He'd have read that in my eyes too. But his was unending and I, I felt, mysterious or deep. I was filled with sexual energy that night and the next morning, he successfully made his move on me.
I was always curious for his mysteriousness. I wanted to plumb the depths of it.
Hie eyes were wider, looked larger than normal. Very wide. It was like this during sex (actually, I think that happened more than once, I can't really remember now.) He had also by that point emanated a complete blankness with me. Like his being was blank. And in this later stage of the relationship, the gaze felt connected more to his blankness than mysteriousness.
Perhaps I use the term "predator gaze" out of convention.
He does other interesting things with his eyes. He has a hypnotic, inviting "lovestruck" expression that he's also used on me a few times - and even on his wife AND me at the same occasion as me (obviously, he was okay with me seeing him do that to her but not the other way around). And he does this at very strange times, so on reflection it seems as though he knows what he wants to achieve but has no idea it might be completely out of context.
Then he has an intent, focussing stare I am reminded of in Lola's post:
"When I was having a monologue for a while I noticed that he had these micro movements back and forth in his eyes as in trying to scan me to see if I was talking the truth. I've never seen anyone else do that quite so intensely."
His mouth is still, his eyebrows ever so slightly furrowed. He appears to be listening intently and evaluating. Again, it's a very compelling look. There are some great photos taken at a company function that show this look of his in a series of three shots.
Yeah, it would be interesting to know what goes on in his noggin at these times but there's a snowball's chance in hell of him sharing that... and I don't feel so much curiosity as I once did. It's more cerebral now.
Hi North, "He was never planning to look away. Never. I had held his gaze for a very long time. The stare felt a little sexual at the time; I mean it was clear the interest between us was sexual. He'd have read that in my eyes too. But his was unending and I, I felt, mysterious or deep. I was filled with sexual energy that night and the next morning, he successfully made his move on me."
DeleteI love reading your posts-You have such a way with words! Once you experience "the stare" it's hard to forget it. We were the only people in the world and I couldn't breathe. He was looking into my soul, and knew my darkest secrets and desires. I should have looked away, and my brain told me to, but I was no longer thinking with my brain. Funny, we were also in a kitchen at work the first time :)
Regardless of where we are now and what has transpired since that initial connection, I still feel the same incredible sexual energy whenever I think of that day and that moment.
It was a turning point in my life, I awoke from a self-induced coma because of him-I choose to call it my "enlightenment". I want to thank him for this, but I know contact will lead me down an unsafe path. Please tell me the trick of how to think of him in only a cerebral manner now.
"It was a turning point in my life, I awoke from a self-induced coma because of him-I choose to call it my "enlightenment"."
DeleteYes. They woke us up by showing us what we wanted, what we are capable of.
"I want to thank him for this"
I have also ached for this.
"but I know contact will lead me down an unsafe path. Please tell me the trick of how to think of him in only a cerebral manner now."
There are so many threads we weave for ourselves to move past the magnitude of the experience we've had. I could write a book about this! But briefly...
I first accepted myself. And then I could take ownership of my own experience, not only of him, but of every aspect of my existence. The height of emotion - the pleasure and the pain - were my *own* neural response. I accepted my feelings and started to listen to them. When I speak of self-sufficiency, it's really an understanding that I am the only person who will ever completely understand me, I am the only one who will ever fully recognise me. And being ok with that and learning to listen to myself more and more. And letting myself feel.
I don't know about you but with him (and others) I largely thwarted my own self. I squashed my own feelings and reactions for the sake of "making things work." So the healing process for me meant going over my experiences and allowing myself to feel angry or sad about whatever it was. Letting myself express that.
It was simply a process of hearing my own voice. Then I experienced solitude: I didn't need him to feel safe. Didn't need his adrenalin rush to mask the old pain.
And I seek and try things I like. The energy I received from him was of such high amplitude; soaring highs, crashing lows. But in a singularly narrow track. No freedom, almost no possibility. So I learnt to dissipate that energy horizontally, so to speak, by letting go. Inviting myself to view the broader universe, beyond those alluring heights. (people told me to find more exciting things... but short of hard drugs, lol. You'll know what I mean. That's not even an option.)
The neural energy of these highs and lows is so powerful and you can actually utilise it any way you choose. Create a vision for yourself. I realised at the start of this year I wanted a vast and rich life. I channel every emotional experience I have towards this end - even if I don't know what that really looks like. Every time there is pain or excitement, I let go of my old grid, my old perspective. I shift, the vista is dramatically different and possibilities open. It feels wonderful. Tears (or whatevs) mean change, possibility. Everything changes. My colleague here this morning told me I've been asleep my whole life and am just waking up. I like the Matrix analogy. Now I'm Trinity and can remake the Matrix (my mind) as I like.
'You must unlearn what you have learned' ~ Yoda
It's ongoing. I will keep expanding :)
And you know what! " I know contact will lead me down an unsafe path" I knew this too, but because I had learnt to listen to myself, and I was doing it because I wanted to say that... it was ok. I did see him around quite a few times because we worked in adjacent buildings. I tried a few times. Long story, lots of little twists. But he doesn't want a conversation. And even that datapoint was enough to let go even more.
In summary: accept yourself, listen to yourself and let yourself feel. Follow your "heart", really open up and let yourself feel. The mammalian brain is much wiser, more ancient, than the neocortex.
I'd love to hear more of your story, maybe we could continue via Twitter.
So what do u want from me. 1. I have nothing for u 2.im not following ur squigit owner 3.if u have wealth then u dont need me
ReplyDeleteI've been reading on the subjects of sociopaths and in my book, The Jackets: Sundering the Jail, I argue that I am a semi-sociopath and that semi-sociopaths should be an entirely new distinction based on a specific set of criteria that I've pieced together.
ReplyDeleteHello,
ReplyDeleteIt is my first post here. I would like to ask about what you think about a friend of mine. I assure you it is a real one, not a "fake" friend who is a reflection of my own self! Specifically, I would like to know whether you think he may be a sociopath or not. I came into contact with a female whom I am convinced is a true sociopath last year. I identified her as a sociopath and got her out of my life, not without creating some kind of mess in the process (this interesting story could be part of a different post). Anyway, I learned a great deal about sociopaths since then, a fact of life that I simply was not aware of before. This whole story got me thinking about another friend of mine whom I've long suspected to have some kind of problem although I could not put a label on it. He tends to be secretive and it is not easy to post an accurate description of him because he seems to hide things even from his closest friends. I've known him for at least 15 years. He is male in his mid-30's. Here is how I would describe him:
- Has a constant need to shift from one relationship to another, and in my opinion, cheats during longer relationships (although I cannot prove it)
- He always seems to be in contact with females whom he calls "friends" (exchanging messages, etc...)
- In group settings, he can be highly charming and catch all of the attention, telling interesting stories and organizing games, etc... This charm is not only directed at females he wants to hit on but generally towards everybody present
- He loves competitive sports
- Loves "thrill", high-risk situations, motorcycling
- He can have some sort of alcohol problems (known to have become verbally abusive when drunk as he was trying to get laid, but couldn't)
- When he tells stories, everything he experiences seems amazing, even trivial things. For example, he can tell you how incredibly tasty this industrial biscuit you just gave him is.
- He has this kind of unexplainable attraction that makes everybody that does not know him try to be his friend.
- Can't commit to anything long-term even though he could (getting a permanent job, buying an appartment, girlfriend)
- Wants freedom to be able to shift direction in a blink. Does not want ties. For example, he may decide to go work one year abroad.
- Clever guy (great chess player)
- Does not think rules apply to him and is shameless about breaking them. He boasted that he smuggled cigarettes when coming back from a trip, and of course he did not get searched because he has no anxiety showing up on his face when doing this sort of thing.
- Still lives with his parents, in my opinion to save money and because it is so much easier for him
- Known to be lazy and unreliable
- Seems to say things to people that he thinks they want to hear. For example, he once told me how he would soon have children, even though both he and I know this is not going to happen anytime soon...I have children myself, and in my opinion, he does this because he believes that I value people with children more than other people.
He's sociopathic, definitely parasitic without a sense of independence, pretty lucid self definition, easy to switch opinions/jobs/friendships as they suit him. The question is one of degree. How fearless is he when driving his motorcycle? Any concern he might hurt anyone else in an accident? Is he pushy to give others ride to enjoy their fear? What's the extent of pain he causes in others' lives as he switches, and whether or not he shows any remorse or apologizes for who he is. Good thing he is not a man of status.
Delete(continued from previous)
ReplyDeleteThis friend of mine was involved for maybe 1.5 - 2 years with a girl whom I thought was a great person. When they eventually broke up (because of course they did), he had to come up to me and my wife to complain how she thought he cheated on her but he really didn't, how she left him by sending an SMS instead of telling him in person, etc... He sworn to me that he didn't cheat. I stupidely wrote a somewhat rude letter to his ex, telling her how I knew this guy for a long time and didn't believe he could lie to me about not cheating, how he was a good guy, etc... Of course, she came back with her own version, which significantly differed from what he had told me. This really made me doubt about his own sincerity. To be honest, there has always been a small voice inside of me telling me that he may be bullshitting, but I did not want to listen to it and did not want to believe that he could be lying in such blatant way to me, his other friends and even his own family. We are childhood friends, I've known his brother and him for a very long time and don't want to cut ties with him because he is in many ways a very interesting person and good sport partner. He always seems to be the life of the party and make group events more interesting. Also, he does not seem to engage in negative behaviours towards me or other people in my group of friends, although I can't say for sure how things are in private with his girlfriends. He does manipulate, but it seems to be more with the goal of appearing as a "good guy" than in order to exploit and dominate people. He does not, for example, emotionally crush people like the true sociopath I was referring to at the beginning of the message. As far as I know, he is not violent either. At some point I thought he was simply a sex addict, but I am starting to think that he may be a narcissist, although I am not sure he fits the true "NPD" type. What would be your opinion on this? I know it's hard to give an online "diagnosis" with just a few sentences, but please try! I want to help him but do not know how. I do not even know whether he should be helped or just left alone.
Thanks,
Anonymous guy looking for cues
Anonymous,
DeleteThere are many different ways of living through this world, none more valid than another.
If you enjoy interacting with him, there is no reason to stop.
Judging another's behaviour on moral grounds is really not a useful approach - at least at the personal level. Societal norms *do* serve a purpose, however, and it's up to him to navigate them. The same goes for everyone else - and this means being aware of what it is you want and what it is you are not prepared to accept. It's not really any more complicated than that.
All the best
North,
DeleteThanks for the reply. I have no issue with people living their life as they see fit. If he just wanted to be this no-string-attached dude but be honest with himself and others about what he is and what he wants from life, I'd have absolutely no issues with it, even if it is not a lifestyle I would embrace myself. What pisses me off, though, is that this guy seems to want to prentend he is something else, and he hurts people's feelings in the process.
I think people fool themselves if they believe they do not judge people. I think we all do to some extent, but some of us are better at either hiding it, or getting past our judgment in our day-to-day life. Regarding the specific issue of cheating, of course I think it's bad and disapprove of his conduct, but this would not really have gotten in the way of our friendship. What is much worse to me is the lying about the cheating. Why did he even have to bring the subject up? He took the initiative of telling everybody what "really" happened, when he should really just have shut the F*** up about the whole thing and take it like a man. It looks as if he was on a propaganda campain to appear as the wronged party and the good guy.
Since I got involved with the True Sociopath, I have no tolerance for manipulation anymore. My plan is to tell him my true feelings about his behaviour every time I think he crosses the line. Hopefully he'll refrain from this type of behaviour towards me. One reason I did not act like this before is that I was sort of under his charm and wanted to be nice to him, but these days are gone...
Anonymous guy
"Since I got involved with the True Sociopath, I have no tolerance for manipulation anymore."
DeleteI absolutely know what you mean. I am still very aware of manipulative tactics and I reject them outright. You wrote about lies hurting people's feelings - I think the underlying issue with lies is that they diminish a person's freedom. They create a false landscape in which one can only choose paths that lead nowhere. At least, this is what I found abhorrent about being lied to.
"My plan is to tell him my true feelings about his behaviour every time I think he crosses the line."
This is probably all you need right now. Don't worry so much about the general things that you have no influence over, or how you personally may have acted differently in his situation. He will take the course that's natural to him, which is why laying out your boundaries for your relationship with him is a good approach. It honours yourself and will hopefully allow space for an enjoyable interface (it may not, but you will find that easier to accept.)
"One reason I did not act like this before is that I was sort of under his charm and wanted to be nice to him, but these days are gone..."
Yes, and well done. I hope you continue on your journey of increasing self-awareness.
His journey is different, and that's ok too. Simply draw the line in your relationship, as you are proposing. The rest is negotiation, in a sense, and possibility.
North,
DeleteYou confirm my course of action. Thank you for your input and have a nice day.
OP
Anonymous guy,
DeleteI got the feeling that you're really mad and having a hard time that you got manipulated by this guy to the point of acting on his behalf. Just accept that you made a mistake and forgive yourself and learn never to that again, not just for this guy, but for all the other types of manipulatrs out there. Don't take it upon yourself when people tell you something about their lives. Almost without an exception, the whining people are narcissists who are either seeking interest just emotionally (fishing for narcissistic supply) or are deliberately trying to catch some action out of you.
Don't fall for it, let everyone be, act only when there is a direct bearing on you. Learn to say 'fuck it, your problem deal with it' in the nicest ways. Like, "I'm so sorry you're dealing with this, what are you planning to do about it" or 'you know, last night I went to this show with my wife and had a blast, you should go check this out sometime,' as if you didn't hear a shit. Judge which one is the best in a situation.
P.S. sorry for the few spelling errors, english is not my native tongue!
ReplyDeleteSome say psychopaths never get depressed or have much of "mood swings": like automatons they have their "level" set, often in "neutral" mode. Rumours say they hate folks asking them "how they feel"..
ReplyDeleteUgh, I hate the "how do you feel" question, or worse the "how does that make you feel?" therapists often use. I'm not emotionless, though there are times that wouldn't be bad, but so much of the time I can't really describe how I feel. It's just a buzzing, like a noise in the background of my mind, it's static. How could I put a label on that?
Deleteto the reader,
ReplyDeletewe're VERY VERY VERY similar by what you've described, and I'm an antisocial borderline. I have borderline personality disorder, so maybe you have BPD too, like me.
also, I did mistake myself as sociopathic too, but I was not one.
let me know how it goes and what's your diagnosis.
Y
Is the "-How do you feel today?" question relevant for psychos, even minor ones? Isnt this the point where the psycho has to invent lots of "pink fluffy empath-shite" which somehow "degrades" him, somehow suggests that such (seen from the socios point of view) "soft mucus" is of major importance..?
ReplyDeleteIts a She..
ReplyDeleteYes you're a sociopath. But relax, for women that is the norm, so you will never be diagnosed for what you are. If you behave really bad, you may get a BPD label. But very unlikely.
P.
she IS BPD!
DeleteY