A reader asks a question that amazingly hasn't really been addressed before (at least not to my memory). And I know that because I myself couldn't come up with anything helpful to say, perhaps due to my own somewhat limited success in this area:
I recently read your book and have started exploring your website. It's relatively easy to find articles on dealing with having a partner that is a sociopath (even though most of them say "run before he rips out your intestines and feasts on the bodies of your loved ones"), but I am curious on your perspective on how a sociopath should go about dealing with an empath.
My fiancée and I have two rules when it comes to my sociopathy; don't be manipulative towards her and don't completely "click out" when I get pissed. It is working rather well so far but I would like to know your thoughts on the matter.
I suggested that perhaps it would be most efficacious to ask the empaths who sometimes visit if they have any advice for how a sociopath could be more effective or better meet expectations in a relationship with an empath.
I recently read your book and have started exploring your website. It's relatively easy to find articles on dealing with having a partner that is a sociopath (even though most of them say "run before he rips out your intestines and feasts on the bodies of your loved ones"), but I am curious on your perspective on how a sociopath should go about dealing with an empath.
My fiancée and I have two rules when it comes to my sociopathy; don't be manipulative towards her and don't completely "click out" when I get pissed. It is working rather well so far but I would like to know your thoughts on the matter.
I suggested that perhaps it would be most efficacious to ask the empaths who sometimes visit if they have any advice for how a sociopath could be more effective or better meet expectations in a relationship with an empath.
First!
ReplyDeleteI have two questions for you, OP:
1) What do you mean by "click out" when you get pissed?
2) Are you manipulative, anyway? Tell the truth. :)
Of course I am not the OP, but I would like to think by "click out" they mean turn off; shut down - to abandon and ignore the other. Otherwise perhaps 'by not completely clicking out' they mean not to fall into a blind rage.
DeleteI might be applying too much personal bias in my assumption, though.
That is actually a completely accurate response on what I meant by "clicking out." And no, I have never manipulated her. It's not easy to do, but she's worth it.
DeleteA buddy of mine (also a sociopath) and I had a conversation about it and we decided it's not worth giving up the one thing in our life that is real just because it would be easier. Even if my fiancée would never know what I was doing.
That is what I thought, but thanks for the clarification. I also respond by "shutting down" or flying into a rage when someone pisses me off. But thankfully, the rages are generally very brief. And for the most part, I am not violent anymore.
DeleteI have discovered that there is no way I can just "turn off" my propensity for manipulation. It is such a part of my character that I often do it unconsciously.
I have, at times, been very manipulative with my spouse. He knows me, and accepts me for who I am. And yet- he calls me on my crap when he becomes aware of it. I have responded by refining my techniques. :P
Well, why should living dolls like "A" and M.E. even have to change?
ReplyDeleteThey are the best sociopaths have to offer.
They are productive, educated, and they function with minor difficulity
in society. They haven't killed anyone-yet.
It looks as though Anon is "practicing" manipulation in this one "facet" of so many other scenarios we have seen before:
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inUM7K_w_20
And empty-handed, too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj4oi2xUNvM
As sociopaths regard life and relationships as a "game" if they are in a relationship they are evaluating -- I guess -- "do I get more out of this relationship than I lose?" If the answer is "yes," than the answer is, I "win" the game by being pleasant to my partner.
ReplyDeleteI speak as an empath with a little seasoning of sociopath in my makeup. I have been married 50 years. My wife -- very empath -- has learned to be kind of nasty and I have learrned to be nicer. Each day we wake up and ask ourselves -- "is this the day we kill the other?"
Hurt me once, shame on you.
ReplyDeleteHurt me twice, shame on me.
Learn from each other. I think with a sociopath and an empath able to handle the situation, that learning journey could continue for a long time.
ReplyDeleteRadical Agnostic makes a good point. It's not natural for an empath to consider a relationship a game, HOWEVER, when they see their partner is treating it as a game, all of a sudden, that competitive spirit (or anger) kicks in and it becomes a war.
I would suggest that your fiancee be sure to keep this in mind and not view the relationship as a contest in any way. You're either enjoying each other and contributing to the quality of each others' lives or you are not. A healthy degree of self-interest benefits any relationship: if you are no longer adding value to each other, go your separate ways.
Empaths want to feel safe in a relationship so choose not to damage her or diminish her or restrict her.
What is her background?
Her background? I'll assume you mean work and personality.
DeleteShe is a very very caring loving woman that would rather catch a bug in her house and set it free than kill it. Pretty much the complete opposite of myself as far as morality is concerned. However, our interests, personalities, and senses of humor mirror one another. As far as work is concerned, she is a preschool teacher where as I work in sales.
Hi Robby,
DeleteA compatible sense of humour is a big plus, likewise with interests and personalities.
The reason I ask about background is that we tend to repeat relationship patterns over our lifetime, unless we make significant investment in change. And we tend to spot potential partners at the deepest level as being those with whom we can fall into those same patterns.
So you will get an idea of how things might play out by understanding her family history and relationship history as well as your own. Remember that behaviour is really driven for survival and some people learn to feel safe by giving or submitting - these are people that fall naturally into relationships with sociopaths and narcissists.
Perhaps she is a person who knows how to take care of herself and listen to her own needs. And perhaps you have grown up in a family of people who had good boundaries that you didn't violate. In this case especially I would be curious to see how things progress because it would be truly fascinating and interesting.
The question is: what happens when you get bored? How do you typically deal with ennui?
Hope that helps, I'm not trying to be bleak or cynical. You do seem genuinely taken with this girl so hopefully this will help you. Changing old patterns isn't so hard if need be.
North said, "So you will get an idea of how things might play out by understanding her family history and relationship history as well as your own. Remember that behaviour is really driven for survival and some people learn to feel safe by giving or submitting - these are people that fall naturally into relationships with sociopaths and narcissists."
DeleteI believe this is true. Some people live to give, and that makes them vulnerable, quirky, unpredictable and often stupid. No offense intended; I've lived it fully. It's grace to sometimes detach from emotive drives that, left unchecked, literally do drive you underground.
Problem is, empaths acting in the heat of the moment tend not to discriminate to whom they are giving or even why . . . often they emote/act on an limbic reflex. The real ones can't stand suffering of any kind: Real 'empaths' should be incapable of being bigots or righteous mobs burning people for public sanctity. They will do bizarre things to stop petty goofs from acting out. Finding and facilitating the feely off-switch for these empaths is essential.
You are very astute in the observation that boundaries are vital for her humor and spirit to survive. Perhaps, if he receives enough positive feedback from her lush emotions to get past the boredom of day-to-day 'devoted' love, which can admittedly be quite tedious, they will both thrive. I have hope this may be so, because he does seem genuinely enchanted.
Change is never easy, Robby. There's the stubborn flesh, the rigid mind and patterned thinking clouding our moment-to-moment awareness.
But should love find you worthy, be not sad. ;)) Lift your gaze to heaven through her eyes and tell us what you see. Bet you will see and feel things different.
Best luck to you.
Mr. Hyde
As an Empath my relationship with a sociopath would be like the
ReplyDeletesinger Gene McDaniels from the 1960's. With regards to women, a total
wussy.
Please Google "A Tower Of Strength." A song like that tells you who welds
the REAL POWER in relationships, and why the pretty sociopath can get
ANY ONE she wants
My favorite song by Gene is a "Hundred Pounds Of Clay." Can't you see you
OWN 99% of men?
Radical Atheist: I'm glad you're back. You claim to be a sociopath.
Won't you please review a film for me called "Last Summer" (1969)?
I want the Sociopathic perspective on films I see, and see if a REAL
Sociopath agrees.
At first when I read this I was flummoxed. Because the answer seems rather obvious: Treat them as you yourself want to be treated.
ReplyDeleteBut then I realized that I'm missing the OP's perspective, and had another thought.
Three questions come to mind whenever someone asks me about how to measure whether or not I think they are compatible as a couple. Ask yourself: What do I want from this person? What to they want from me? Are our desires in sync or somehow compliment each other?
What do I absolutely need from this or any relationship? What do they need and can I provide it?
What traits or situations will I absolutely not tolerate?
I imagine that most empaths would answer that they want love and to feel that they are 'helping' that person. They need to sacrifice and to feel that sacrifice is honored and respected by at least one person they are intimately involved with. That is one reason why so many empaths get enraged when they discover the sociopath has lied to or manipulated them.
What we want and what we need often don't mesh. And most people almost never really know what they won't tolerate until it slaps them in the face.
On another note: I don't think all empaths need to be loved in the same way they love others. The more evolved ones understand that everyone is different, and thus can appreciate the colder aspects of being human, even admire it. An intellectual empath might fall in love with the blackhearted simply because they find it a relief to deal with someone who operates from a super-rational plane. The empath can then learn how to distance themselves from the pain of the world by observing their partner. And so long as the sociopath doesn't game them and is loyal, their need to be 'loved' can be fulfilled vis-à-vis through sharing in other ways. The idea that love must be reflected in certain ways or its not love seems to me outmoded.
If the OP thinks his/her empath is providing something 'real' in their lives then, in my opinion, it's totally worth it to refrain from gaming. An authentic relationship is always more nourishing than a relationship made up of junk food (shallow investment and manipulation).
Best of luck, OP. I'd be curious to hear how it goes over the long run.
Mr. Hyde
I'm not sure how to keep you updated in the long run, but I would be more than happy to if you're genuinely curious. You're more than welcome to email me.
DeleteSo far her and I both have hit our highest highs and lowest lows together. It's a huge learning experience for us both. We are both VERY stubborn which causes a lot of problems but also keeps us going. We refuse to give up on one another no matter what obstacles come our way because at the end of the day, the good outweighs the bad.
Mr. Hyde-You are completely correct.
Deletedon't think all empaths need to be loved in the same way they love others. The more evolved ones understand that everyone is different, and thus can appreciate the colder aspects of being human, even admire it. An intellectual empath might fall in love with the blackhearted simply because they find it a relief to deal with someone who operates from a super-rational plane. The empath can then learn how to distance themselves from the pain of the world by observing their partner. And so long as the sociopath doesn't game them and is loyal, their need to be 'loved' can be fulfilled vis-à-vis through sharing in other ways. The idea that love must be reflected in certain ways or its not love seems to me outmoded.
DeleteGreat point, Mr Hyde! Anyone who knows how to take care of themselves might benefit. This means the person takes full responsibility for keeping themselves safe.
But would such a relationship exist? I don't know if it would. It would be on equal terms, providing benefit to both. We're talking both parties being cream of the crop in self awareness, maybe like Sartre and de Beauvoir.
Of course, other marriages will 'work'...
Mr. Hyde-I like your "authentic vs. junk food" analogy. I've referred to it as "gold vs. garbage".
DeleteYes, Mr. Hyde. In life, what we need must mesh with what we want, and that applies to all aspects of being or existing. Sociopath or not (i.e., whatever the case may be), it can surely be a relief to know or to deal with someone who operates from a super-rational, intellectual plane.
DeleteWhat do you think of the following quote?
"To learn how to find, one must first learn how to hide." G.M.
Thank y'all for your comments.
DeleteI must humbly admit that I find it hard to imagine what other people want because my wants are pretty low key/intangible compared to most. I just want to be and to learn and connect in interesting ways. That can be challenging, too, though, because I'm not every sentimental and my morals, while strict, aren't for general consumption. I would not assume, for example, that just because I highly value animal intelligence for its own sake, others must, too. Many people don't understand my weird goals or passion for certain things. That's OK, of course.
Someone wrote here that being an empath does not necessarily make a person moral; perhaps the opposite is also true -- Being hyper-rational does not make a person an evil robot. If one day the World Wide Mind comes into existence, we'll all be able to virtually taste a variety of emotional and/or rational flavors. That would help each know and understand the other.
It's interesting how little thought ppl generally give to what they really want versus what they really need, what they'll tolerate and what they won't. Perhaps that's why so many people look for love in all the wrong places. Or look for happiness in wealth only to find isolation and paranoia.
Parnasse, I totally agree with " to learn how to find, one must first learn how to hide." To catch a thief you must first learn to think like one.
Mr. Hyde
Which animals are you referring to, Mr. Hyde? Does this have to do with your "weird goals or passions for certain things?"
DeleteThere is much to admire in virtually all animals: the collectivity of hive minds, the loyalty amongst wolves, the heightened senses of smell and taste perceptions, etc.
DeleteBroadly speaking, all sentient creatures and their varied experiences comprise a part of my goal to know life and myself. My passions are many, from the concrete reality of buildings, living beings, literature and science to abstract mysticism and psychology.
Mr. Hyde
Mr Hyde,
DeleteYou epitomise curiosity.
Thank you very much, North. That's a great compliment I take to heart.
DeleteYou, too, are intensely curious. Your open-minded thoughtfulness is not lost on me. :))
Mr. Hyde
Thankyou kindly, Mr Hyde. :)
DeleteYou speak of the loyalty among wolves, Mr. Hyde, coupled with their heightened senses. It has been said that on some nights, the wolves remain silent and only the moon howls. Imagine that for a while, envisioning what it would look and sound like to the gazing wolf.
DeleteWell, there is a bear in “Legends of the Fall” (book/movie). What do you think of it in relation to boldness, Tristan, unbridled impulses and real freedom?
When wolves prance together in the noonday sun the hair on their backs undulates with awareness. The pack's movements mesh -- they are in sync with the earth, wind and atmosphere.
DeleteSo, I imagine a pack of silent wolves riveted to the blue night grass by howling moonbeams. Their glowing eyes perceive lunar fluctuations in earth's magnetosphere. They are reading the future weather report. :))
Tristan embodied the Grizzly impulse magnificently. Fierce killer of those who murdered his brother, a hungry adventurer and womanizer. Until he married the earth goddess -- the young Aboriginal Aphrodite. That brought him right down to earth. How free are most earthlings from the law of gravity? From the law of attraction?
The reality of love's gravity binds Tristan to his fate.
As for loyalty -- it's prized among all species.
Mr. Hyde
Your words about wolves, moonbeams and meshing awareness are thoughtful, Mr. Hyde. Wolves are highly intuitive, showing endurance and strength, which has been noted throughout the centuries. Yet, they are hounded, but that is part of their nature, too.
DeleteWe see Tristan's fate in the same light, Mr. Hyde. In his case, which is uncommon, love finds a way in places where wolves, or bears, fear to prey.
He appears to put his life on the line because of destiny, and it happens rather often throughout the plot. There is a point in the novel where even he wonders why he does it. We know the answer to that, and so does Tristan as one realization follows the other. The momentum builds, and we witness continual transformation.
According to several Native American traditions, bears are seen as unusual animals with transformative powers. Those they touch are never the same again, and I agree. I believe that it is also connected to loyalty.
In an interview, Kim Harrison said, "I would rather give full vent to all human loves and disappointments and take a chance on being corny than die a smartass."
I would change "corny" to "heard," because that is what he really meant to reveal. Do you believe that Tristan gives him that chance, Mr. Hyde? I am using the present tense, since a book lives well after the author is done with it. In fact, that is when it begins to live amply.
Jim Harrison, not Kim. Funny typo, but it happens.
DeleteI do think Tristan gives him that chance. My experience with writers is that writing fiction allows them to tap into deeper aspects of their being; taboo feelings and thoughts from the unconscious bleed into fictional characters and give them life. The more 'blood' that flows from the depths of the unconscious, the more realistic, complex and vital the characters, the more the plot evolves organically, as a natural reflex, rather than unfolding according to some preordained plan.
DeleteJust my opinion. I don't have a PH.D in English.
Mr. Hyde
True, Tristan gives him that chance, Mr. Hyde. I have thought about it while perusing the author's notes.
DeleteThere is a quote by One Stab that humors me quite a lot. I hope that you will find it funny as well. ;)
"I think it was the bear, growling inside him....Nothing that Tristan did was truly his own fault. It was the bear."
In Native American tradition, Tristan is the "moon of the popping trees." In the novel, he lives somewhere between this world and the other.
Love the quote, Parnasse. I laughed out loud. Sounds like something I'd say when I've committed a faux pas.
DeleteA bear, a lion, a scorpion, a bull, etc., lives somewhere inside everyone. One world inhabits us all. ;)
Seen the movie but have not read the novel.
Moon of the popping trees makes sense to me: When the moon is full, tree sap rises. If a sudden cold snap occurs, the trees make a popping sound. So this native tradition is based on a certain northern latitude where these elements come together.
I want to live somewhere between this world and others and strive to do so every day. :D
Mr. Hyde
You seem to understand Tristan quite well, Mr. Hyde. Most people would find it hard to relate.
DeleteYour descriptions are atypically visual, which I truly like. There is something so scintillating in a full moon, its shoal and shadows reflecting the rising and popping of the trees. If you look at its surface on a clear night, you would be able to see what I describe. It will be revealed to you.
As One Stab would say about Tristan, "Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness, and they live by what they hear."
Do you see this while living in such a way? ;)
The moon's shoal and shadows evokes dead spirits, the smoldering incandescence of lost and future species . . . blood trickling the spiny stars.
DeleteWhen my mind is free to wander, I soar wherever the wind takes me: I am the suns of Orion, the rings of Saturn. I am pulsars and cosmic rays, the ticking of eternity. My veins surge with particles of vanquished light. It tickles!
It's a crazy way to live but still a glorious way to spend an evening. ;)
I believe Tristan and me would have shared many fine stories while sitting around a campfire in this or any other life. Come to think of it, we would have wanted you to join us for toasted marshmallows and hot chocolate.
Mr. Hyde
Your imagination is like an unopened box, Mr. Hyde. At first, as I peruse its surface, the unopened box, or gift, seems to contain the "evoking of dead spirits, smoldering incandesce, and blood trickling the spiny stars."
DeleteIt reminds me of something that I read a while ago, which has stayed with me.
"Stab me if you can enjoy it, but not if it feels like a duty. Stab me vertically if I'm lying down and horizontally if I'm running." ;)
I don't believe that he is referring to actual stabbing, but I connected this thought to "blood trickling the spiny stars" and to "veins surging with particles of vanquished light." I suppose that your metaphor "tickles" in an uncommon way. :)
What does the "ticking of eternity" sound like to you, Mr. Hyde?
True, it is a crazy way to live, but we love it once the box is opened and great stories stoke the campfire. Joining this scene, opening the box even further and discovering fuels the inertia of the mind.
I would have come, Mr. Hyde.
I am delighted that you would have come, Parnasse. I'm sure you have great stories that would have tickled us both. And there's nothing can compare with wood-fed flames, hot chocolate, marshmallows and tall tales.
DeleteI'm touched that you find my fantastical meanderings engaging and that they spark the curious quote you mention above. Penetration and vulnerability go knife in hand. ;) Gibran's poem about love's threshing floor and love's sword is not for sentimentalists.
The ticking of eternity can be anything I focus on. The wind, fungus and trees growing, the rotting of corpses, sunshine penetrating my skin. All these things sound/feel different, depending on many things, including of course my mood. Every quark and atom resonates.
What does the stabbing metaphor mean to you?
"inertia of mind." Lol. Nothing is worse than cognitive dissonance and/or flatlining. :)
Mr. Hyde
PS Parnasse, "I connected this thought to "blood trickling the spiny stars" and to "veins surging with particles of vanquished light." I suppose that your metaphor "tickles" in an uncommon way. :)
DeleteThank you, Parnasse.
I wasn't being metaphorical, though.
Particles of vanished light, elements of the big bang, comprise our living tissue and cannot be found on earth. We are literally made of vanquished starlight. Remembering this is to some extent to relive it, rekindle that cosmic fire. Stoking the fire with stories of transformed starlight is one of my favorite pastimes.
Mr. Hyde
Your meandrous thoughts elicit inquisitive sparks from my mind, some of which I reveal to you and some of which I roll with as my imagination wanders freely. Yes, “penetration and vulnerability go knife in hand,” Mr. Hyde, and I really like the way you’ve phrased it. Gibran’s poem, which speaks to me on a level that I usually keep to myself (until now, that is), is not for sentimentalists, and I like that aspect of it quite a lot. I initially noticed your likeness of it in a previous post on this site. I read it twice at that time, and was quite impressed that you had chosen it. Come to think of it, this would have been my first choice, too. I would have also selected the following (“What does the stabbing metaphor mean to you?”):
Delete“And I have known the eyes already, known them all—
The eyes that fix you in a formulated phrase,
And when I am formulated, sprawling on a pin,
When I am pinned and wriggling on the wall,
Then how should I begin
To spit out all the butt-ends of my days and ways?
And how should I presume?
---
To say: “I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all”—
If one, settling a pillow by her head
Should say: “That is not what I meant at all;
That is not it, at all.”
And then there is this, along with that:
“And would it have been worth it, after all,
Would it have been worth while,
After the sunsets and the dooryards and the sprinkled streets,
After the novels, after the teacups, after the skirts that trail along the floor—
And this, and so much more?—
It is impossible to say just what I mean!”
“The sunshine penetrating your skin.” What does that feel like to you, Mr. Hyde? With knife in hand, that is. ;)
“Of insidious intent
To lead you to an overwhelming question...
Oh, do not ask, “What is it?”
Let us go and make our visit.” :)
Evocative words, Parnasse. I smiled reading that you liked the "knife in hand" comment; I suspected you would, and hoped you would understand my meaning.
DeleteIt's true: It's impossible to say what I mean. But it's worth while trying, because like most sentient creatures, I want to know and be known.
I've always been a very receptive person. Being receptive opens the pores of my soul: I drink in sensations and allow them to boil in the alembic of my being. I invite others into my heart without fear of what may happen because I don't desire anything from them but their honest individual truth of experience. There's nothing they can steal from me that I would not readily give. There's nothing I would take from them that they would not freely give -- goods stolen from the heart turn to dust very quickly. Gifts from the heart never rust or die.
So when I say that penetration and vulnerability go knife in hand, I mean that being receptive is very risky but also nourishing. In fact, it's the only way I know how to live. When sunlight penetrates my skin I am awakened to the power of a distant star: it calls to me, enters my flesh, sparks memories near and far. If I expose myself to the sun for too long, it can hurt me . . . but to never let the sun penetrate is unthinkable.
A while back you mentioned the book World Wide Mind, which I'm now reading from the beginning (I skipped to chapter 8 when I began reading it, because I was excited to know the jist of the author's intent.) Telempathy induced by technology, the apprehension of the feelings of another, is a very interesting concept. Sometimes it seems that that's what we are trying to do here.
I won't ask you, "What is it?"
I enjoy our 'visits' and that's good enough. Perhaps one day we'll bump into each other at a book store, and instantly recognize each other by the gleam in each other's eyes. :)
Mr. Hyde
PS For you, Parnasse,
DeleteI am the wings and the blood of the ravenhearted,
taking flight into the fires eternal,
drinking the eternal wine of life.
I am the fornicator of taboo,
lighting the cerulean fires anew.
I am the lost bird tribes
Cretaceous, ascending the scaly
evolution of Logos.
I am the genius of my blood's desire,
brooding into the future.
Will you come?
Mr. Hyde
Understanding the meaning of your words comes naturally to me, Mr. Hyde. Your “knife in hand” comment/concept was something that I had hoped you would write about at some point in time. Having that in you, and expressing it so boldly, opens and marks a path on which I can relate to you rather well and uncommonly.
DeleteSimilarly, I want to know and to be known, and it is worthwhile trying to say the impossible even though, in essence, it is impossible to verbalize. Come to think of it, that gleam in each other’s eyes would mark and bring that original possibility into its ongoing existence.
“Being receptive opens the pores of my soul: I drink in sensations and allow them to boil in the alembic of my being.”
I feel a certain, inexplicable high as I absorb certain thoughts. Grippingly, the pores and sensations of your soul sound as though they can reach the heights that my own being craves and attains so naturally. I, too, allow them to brew and then boil to immeasurable degrees. It feels like a “calling,” if you can understand my point.
True, all gifts given from the heart endure quite fully. The truth of experience is something that I cherish, giving freely in return. I invite that as well, Mr. Hyde.
I am drawn to dichotomies, and I know exactly what you mean when imparting that being receptive is both risky and nourishing. It is my way of living, too, and any other path would feel unnatural. When sunlight penetrates my skin, it fills me up with intense, unrestrained surges, but if it “burns,” I look for deeper shade. :)
Telempathy captivates me in a way that seeks so many answers. Yes, it seems as though that is what we are attempting to do here, and the apprehension of the feelings of another is at the crux of its core.
Our “visits” are distinct creations that build up to higher and more filling grounds every time each one of us opens the door, or leaves a window ajar. Bumping into each other inside a bookstore would be a one-of-a-kind experience. My eyes would say, “I know you like no other.” ;)
Thank you for the defining, well-crafted lines, Mr. Hyde. You are quite talented, the genius of your blood’s desire rising so brightly.
I would come, and give you this, Mr. Hyde:
You know how it is:
Waking from a dream
Certain you can fly -
And you are filled with that uncontainable longing.
[Meanwhile, in the back of your mind:
The moon is beaming in the mist.
A string of words enrapture you.
The pages turn inside the store,
The letters mixing nature’s cycle.]
You know how it is:
How much of your life you’ve spent at this quest.
Now known and rising as you’ve never done before -
Here, in my eyes.
Some claim the world began with fire,
Some claim with ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire
I hold with “truth” – who knows my fire.
It's a "calling" all right. An unquenchable thirst, the thing that most defines my identity and actions. "How much of your life you've spent at this quest" is daunting to think about: If I measure it by the time I've seen my fire 'rise' in the eyes of others who perceive my truth it would be short indeed. If I measure it by my perception of the fiery truth I've seen in others, it's been my entire life. I'm always looking for the foundational spirit of every living thing I encounter; it's the only thing that really interest me. Encountering that blazing spirit in someone or thing fascinates and feeds my quest to know myself and all things.
Delete"You know how it is:
Waking from a dream
Certain you can fly -
And you are filled with that uncontainable longing"
Oh yes! Here's a quote that struck me the other day, by Paul Ricoeur, from "Time and Narrative":
"The absence of eternity is not simply a limit that is thought, but a lack that is felt at the heart of temporal experience."
To touch the eternal life spirit in others is to breach the surface of infinity.
I am very glad we connected. You are a deep person and an inspiring conversationalist.
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep.
When solar rays blaze too bright,
I seek dewy shadows and sweet night.
Your compliments about my writing are very generous. Thank you very much. I can tell that you are a very accomplished writer.
Mr. Hyde
Likewise, I am very content that we connected, Mr. Hyde. I see depth in you, having found an impressive raconteur.
DeleteThe “calling” is something that I have discovered in you as well, and I am writing this post to you with this in mind. You describe something that I have always viewed as rare, and as you delve deeper into the subject, I recognize your thoughts in my own, lifetime quest.
“‘How much of your life you've spent at this quest’ is daunting to think about: If I measure it by the time I've seen my fire 'rise' in the eyes of others who perceive my truth it would be short indeed. If I measure it by my perception of the fiery truth I've seen in others, it's been my entire life.”
Yes, this is how I have been perceiving and internalizing it as well. It is a truth that has perpetually preoccupied me. In fact, it has been my “reality,” so to speak, in a way which most people do not usually fathom. Here is my own writing and meandering in connection to it:
Ambiguous, deviant nature -
Constantly knocking at this soul,
twisted, risen and blown
by those biting, coiling winds,
wishing to enter….
It finally tastes a reply
from a kindling, kindred voice, wanting it there.
constantly knocking at this soul -
willing, intense, so prone and bare.
a bare soul in all its splendor.
Sans all calamity and feeling of wrath,
illusions are no longer there.
for the one that has patently let you in
has also unburdened -
“all.”
Forget your searching in vain
across those lunatic moors
under a thundering sky.
rays from this fiery coppice
will always “fount” to rise
as long as you roam about that door -
constantly knocking,
and fitting a twin soul.
"The absence of eternity is not simply a limit that is thought, but a lack that is felt at the heart of temporal experience."
The absence of eternity is a thought that my mind seeks to dispel in so many ways.
“To touch the eternal life spirit in others is to breach the surface of infinity.”
The eternal life spirit of another means true magnetism to me, and thank you for compliment.
I wonder, do you believe that June is a promise that November is bound to keep, Mr. Hyde? As I think of the season we’re in, this question tickles and humors me. You? ;)
Your words are very magnetic, full of bright longing. :) Thank you so much for sharing with me.
DeleteI do believe that 'our' quest is rare and therefore blessed. We are both seeking something intangible on the road less traveled. If I were God, I'd find that highly amusing.
"Mr. Hyde. I see depth in you, having found an impressive raconteur." Thank you. And you are an impressive poet-philosopher. :)
Have you ever seen the Swedish movie, "Let the Right One In"? The tenderness that builds between the two lonely children, their evolving trust and desire to fulfill each other's needs, touched me. Come to think of it, the boy is a normal but highly repressed neurotypical and the girl a vampire-socio who needs a fierce and caring human to survive. Knife in hand, they end up traipsing throughout the "unknown' country in perfect harmony. ;)
November is bound to keep its promise that June will arrive so long as humans don't totally screw up the climate. XD When nature coils her green splendor beneath the surface of the earth, she moans in her sleep, I am dreaming of spring.
I like winter season where I live. Rain, fog, snow enhance my brooding.
I will leave you with a line I wrote shortly after my mom died, when I was fourteen. I hope that you will laugh at Mr. Hyde's pubescent audacity.
Yin divided Yang = IAG. I am God.
Mr. Hyde
“The [core] has a yearning for the unknown, a longing to penetrate the deep shadow and the winding glade, where, as it seems, no human foot has been.” R.J.
DeleteYes, my words are filled with bright longing, too, Mr. Hyde. The road less traveled defines “our” quest, in that we want to know the intangible: what those original spaces between seconds are called. True, God would find that vastly amusing. Indeed, some things seem to work in mysterious, albeit humorous, ways.
“And you are an impressive poet-philosopher. :)”
Thank you. I see the bright philosopher in you, too, Mr. Hyde.
I've seen “Let the Right One In,” and I know exactly what you mean. Their unique bond encourages an unconditional loyalty, fulfilling each other’s needs in pivotal moments. Both characters transcend their natural states for the sake of another. Their relationship unveils as one bond, but what kind of bond? Perhaps “The Meaning of Things” (A.C. Grayling) is a good place to look for more insight, or words like “agape.”
It feels like pure contagion to me.
“November is bound to keep its promise that June will arrive so long as humans don't totally screw up the climate. XD When nature coils her green splendor beneath the surface of the earth, she moans in her sleep, I am dreaming of spring.”
After moaning in her sleep, the surface of the earth remembers and rewards her dreamer most generously: June will arrive.
“I will leave you with a line I wrote shortly after my mom died, when I was fourteen. I hope that you will laugh at Mr. Hyde's pubescent audacity.
Yin divided Yang = IAG. I am God.”
I want to share this with you, Mr. Hyde, keeping your loss in my mind (the death of your mom, that is). Currently, my inner self connects it to “Let the Right One In,” and the thoughts that you expressed afterward. However, instead of death, think of rebirth as we have been discussing it, since this is how it feels presently.
in a distant land
where my childhood wears its celestial mask
and white looks sickly and awry,
you rest, my friend
frozen in time,
under white sheets and layers of ice.
before dusk withered up your breath,
I saw your your eyes, your face: piercing and white.
I cut my hair to look like you
strand by strand…picturing you
while with a bold and childish heart,
I longed to feel what you felt
to love what you loved.
and when they buried you
a hand threw soil over my head
so that your spirit could not roam free,
wildly back to me…
a priest’s vile act;
his ancient and restrictive way:
malicious, cold and vain,
since I, I wanted you to stay
unchanged, ghostly…
forget decay!
for a year, every day,
I placed wild flowers on your grave,
for each wild day
you ran away
to hide from illness, blood and pain…
one morning, in the rain,
I touched the picture on your grave
to reassure myself that you,
a child like me,
you lay serenely
where dewdrops reigned
and pale dandelions stood tall…untamed.
"I saw your your eyes, your face: piercing and white."
Delete"I saw your eyes, your face: piercing and white."
It happens. ;)
"Their relationship unveils as one bond, but what kind of bond? Perhaps “The Meaning of Things” (A.C. Grayling) is a good place to look for more insight, or words like “agape.”
DeleteThe most beautiful kind of love . . . I totally agree. Allow me to read some more Grayling before I say more. It's been a long, long time since anyone has said that word to me, and I had almost come to believe that it was a lost love art. ;)
"I saw your eyes, your face: piercing and white.
I cut my hair to look like you
strand by strand…picturing you
while with a bold and childish heart,
I longed to feel what you felt
to love what you loved."
How true this rings in my experience. You read my mind. :) The longing to feel and love those things as does the Other is primal to those who are searching.
"for a year, every day,
I placed wild flowers on your grave,
for each wild day
you ran away
to hide from illness, blood and pain…"
This is true of me, too. What's funny is that a young feral family member just wrote a piece about my death and how she would place flowers at my grave every day. Synchronicity, even when posited at the nadir of one's existence, is delightful. :)
"one morning, in the rain,
I touched the picture on your grave
to reassure myself that you,
a child like me,
you lay serenely
where dewdrops reigned
and pale dandelions stood tall…untamed"
Rest assured, Parnasse, we are the Untamed. Dancing till we drop on our world wide graves.
I sense this wild quality at your core; it makes me feel slightly giddy. Like I've found another kid to splash around in cosmic puddles with. ;)
Thank you for sharing your fabulous writing with me. I am honored.
Mr. Hyde
I referred to "agape," since the word, meaning and strength of it as a whole feeds a certain "place" that my inner self craves. As I gave more thought to "Let the Right One In," my mind compared it to younger versions of Selene and Michael of "Underworld." Their bond is rare and strong, they are in tune with each other's needs, and they grow "into each other" like intertwined roots...while delving deeper into the profusely twisted and wild "bowels" of "underworld." Like agape, their bond seems like a regained and reawakened form of incomparable art.
DeleteThere have been several times during our exchanges when I have felt as though we had "read each other's mind." It must have been the primal pull of the "seeker" that drives the search you've mentioned. Dancing incitedly on our world wide graves reminds me, once again, of a certain scene from "Underworld," entailing Selene and Michael. Keeping the younger versions of their inner selves in your thoughts, can you read my mind as to which scene I am contemplating at this time, Mr. Hyde?
We will always have the untamed in us, which is so unique to what we explore here...rising and colliding so beautifully and ferally within the "underworld." (knife in hand, too.) ;)
Unfortunately, I am not very familiar with the Underworld movie series. Vampires and werewolves are at war, but Selene and Michael form an alliance? Fall in love?
DeleteThe unique bond that sometimes form between different animal species fascinates me. (I enjoy watching videos that detail the development and routines of interspecies friendships.)
"There have been several times during our exchanges when I have felt as though we had "read each other's mind." It must have been the primal pull of the "seeker" that drives the search you've mentioned."
I believe you are right.
The primal pull of the seeker to explore the underworld and climb the highest peaks is distinctly powerful. It also radiates a weird light which others sometimes mistake for a kind of lunacy. ;) Most people label 'the quest' itself a crazy enterprise. But that weir-light is necessary in order to navigate the labyrinth of the 'underworld.'
Mr. Hyde
Yes, Selene and Michael form an alliance, and the two fall in love amidst a war-filled environment. They experience that original, primal and feral pull that you have described so well (i.e., your thoughts tingle). I am highly drawn to it, feeling so natural and tangling to me. There is the presence of ardent, uncontainable passion for "knowing" and for inviting even more of it into the fabric and intrinsic fibers of the quest.
DeleteWe are experiencing the same fascination with animal species and the sort of bond that is barely understood by "common" individuals. It seems like a type of lunacy to them, since it extends into the realm of extraordinary elements.
The "weird light" is essential for this one-of-a-kind quest, turning the inner workings of the labyrinthine allure into a craving that soars above everything else.
I want to climb such high peaks and corridors, Mr. Hyde. I have it in me. If you see "Underworld," feast your eyes on the highest peaks that are accentuated by these two characters. I wonder whether you will see through my eyes...absorbing how everything comes together in some scenes, falling suffusingly within the channels of such enthralling zenith?
No chance to watch Underworld yesterday; certain people seem to "need" me all the time lately, and they dislike my penchant for spending lots of time alone. It's a constant struggle, as I don't want to hurt them but also need time alone in order to thrive. I got into a funk yesterday trying to figure out to make boundaries with them that won't feel like outright rejection. Any advice?
DeleteBut I feel confident that if I had watched Underworld, I'd glimpse a pulsing light radiating from atop snowy wastelands, the deep shadows climbing upwards from the valleys below. I would feel my heart beating against my ribs and the ache would be sweetly terrifying. Being enthralled, I might clasp your hand in an uprush of excitement, say "Shall we jump? Do you believe that together we can fly?"
And you would smile, your eyes shining with that special gleam. You would squeeze my hand, and we would jump, laughing at gravity. Soaring hand in hand into the great unknown. My wings, being slightly twisted, would brush your cheeks.
"I want to climb such high peaks and corridors, Mr. Hyde. I have it in me."
Indeed you do. And is why I am fascinated by you, too, Parnasse. That and your incisive delicacy in broaching the unknown, your evocative words, are very precious to me. In this day and age of empty celebrity, gossip and rapid materialism, you are a rare bird. :)
I heard an interview the other day on Hippocampus.com with M.E. Have you heard it? Although the interviewer, Michael Cross, made some good points, I felt he was not as engaged on the same level as M.E. I really like what she said about children being incentivized to lie and fake feelings. It struck me hard, as I recalled the times I lied and faked my way through awful family times: I had no reason not to lie. Everyone wanted me to be happy all the time and never speak out: So I gave them what they wanted. I wonder now if that is why I like writing dark tales that I know would horrify my dad, were he still alive.
Speaking of writing, I'd better get back to the *work.* If I don't sell something soon, I'll be forced to sell a kidney (which I do believe, as M.E. points out in the interview, I have every right to do.) ;)
btw, you never answered which vampire you found the most appealing in "Interview with the Vampire." When I first read it, I fell in love with Louis. Because he's tortured about his bloodlust and because he has the ability to see human frailty not as weakness but as something beautiful. Being able to see beauty in unusual places and people appears to me as a portal to another dimension.
Mr. Hyde
"
DeleteParnasseNovember 15, 2015 at 3:45 AM
I referred to "agape," since the word, meaning and strength of it as a whole feeds a certain "place" that my inner self craves. As I gave more thought to "Let the Right One In," my mind compared it to younger versions of Selene and Michael of "Underworld." Their bond is rare and strong, they are in tune with each other's needs, and they grow "into each other" like intertwined roots...while delving deeper into the profusely twisted and wild "bowels" of "underworld." Like agape, their bond seems like a regained and reawakened form of incomparable art."
:) Agape is an incomparable art. Intertwining roots merge underground, create hybrids and produce new startling foliage.
Mr. Hyde
My computer is fucked . . . .
DeleteI don't know why it double-posted.
Shit happens.
Mr. Hyde
Advice? People have been questioning these same tendencies in me that you are experiencing ever since I can remember. It appears as though we have a rare "need" to continue exploring the road less traveled in the scaly, inducing woods of life, Mr. Hyde. I find that it can be rather difficult for others to understand our quirks and inclinations, but being ourselves is as necessary as the air we breathe, or pure oxygen.
DeleteMore of my thoughts will reach you shortly, Mr. Hyde. ;)
I believe that we can fly together, Mr. Hyde (anywhere, that is). Your words are rushing forth like a clasping tune that brings "the familiar" out of me. This is a "first" for me. I believe that you know so, just as I can naturally recognize some intrinsic things about you. My wings would "tell" you who I am, the surfing rush within you pulsating through and through....
DeleteLeaving all gravity behind would be exactly what my true self needs, "knowing" it all with you as we let the unknown be our only guide.
I understand your thoughts about both empty gossip and materialism. I have never been a friend of either one of the two, but I believe that somehow, you know so about me. :)
Can you tell me a dark tale, Mr. Hyde? I wish it could be an audio one, akin to free falling, infusing audio books. Your voice would take me even further into the vast and beckoning unknown that identifies our original "calling."
Honestly speaking, I haven't heard the interview, but it sounds as though several, insightful points were made during it. I would "truly" like to know more about it.
DeleteYes, Louis through and through, Mr. Hyde. ;)
" Your words are rushing forth like a clasping tune that brings "the familiar" out of me. This is a "first" for me. I believe that you know so, just as I can naturally recognize some intrinsic things about you."
DeleteIt is the same for me. The 'calling' is the intrinsic bond we share and can feel. The intensity and depth of your voice instantly felt unique and familiar.
In fact, come to think of it, the quality of your thoughts reminds me of a recurring dream figure I've had on and off for years. In that recurring dream many fantastic stories were told me by this dream figure, whom I dubbed the transmortalist. You may laugh, but for a couple years I was totally in love with this creature from my imagination. No one I met could compare.
I would love to tell you a dark tale. But it's tricky . . . I cannot share the stories I am presently working on and don't want to share my old stuff, as they are 'outdated' versions of my mind set. Plus, this is a public site and sharing unpublished work is not in my best interest, if you know what I mean.
I could tell you a true story. Would that do?
Mr. Hyde
I believe that a voice can carry the lips, tongue and fingers that gave it wings, Mr. Hyde. Your voice as it manifests through your posts is one that I can understand so effortlessly, which makes it both familiar and exceptional in my mind. If I were to see you in a crowd, I would make my way toward you and say ever so confidently and truly, "I know you." And you would feel my words filling those covert spaces that you have always kept so tightly to yourself. In essence, your own words flicker within my own uninhabited, unknown spots, seeing how the intrinsic bond takes us further than I have ever let anyone else in.
DeleteYes, I would like to hear your true story. It would do more than you know, Mr. Hyde.
"No one I met could compare."
DeleteYes, and once that happens, the bond that takes the deepest root you've known so far, or the connection that speaks to your true self in all ways (light and dark, that is), remains unchangeable and natural in its tuneful makeup. Also, you are aware of the transmortalist's connection to your being and senses, making your dream take on a quality of wholeness. I intended to phrase what I just wrote in the form of a question, but I believe that I can grasp your meaning quite well. It reminds me of a place that I have envisioned more than once in my mind, wherein spring, summer, fall and winter come together so profusely, unveiling each other amidst a sea of sounds and lightning ecstasy (i.e., the wind moans characteristically in the sky as the moon spells shapes and reshaped itself), fitting into nature's puzzle, twisted and tangled...their deviance and real feel of it surpassing all other occurences.
I want to really "hear" your story, Mr. Hyde. I listen with my own covert spaces, filling them in one after the other.
Good morning, Parnasse,
DeleteI always look forward to and enjoy reading your posts with my coffee. And I do believe that you and I would recognize each other in a crowd. It comforts me to know that . . . our exotic exchange, playful language infused with deep waters, is a first for me, too. You are opening doors in my perception. :) More than you can know. One day I will tell you the particulars and I think you'll laugh.
But at the moment, time is short. My computer is acting up, again; it's been hacked 3 times in the last nine months. It may be someone from this site or it may a former socio 'friend' who's still angry with me for not wanting to have sex with them, or, it may be my former employer whose reputation is at stake, not to mention millions of dollars. I am telling you this because several times now my attempts to post on this site have disappeared, for no reason I can discern. In fact it just happened again, when I tried to respond to your question regarding transcendence in relation to a quote about a drop of water containing the whole ocean.
Mr. Hyde
"And you would feel my words filling those covert spaces that you have always kept so tightly to yourself."
DeleteI already do feel your words filling those hidden spaces. :)
And yes, I have always felt the sharp edges of words prickling inside me, trying to carve their way out. Here is the story I promised you; it is one those life 'chapters' that I rarely talk about because I can't explain why it impacted me the way it has or even exactly how, in what way, it has left its indelible mark.
It happened on the day my father remarried, two years after my mom shot herself in the head in their bedroom. I was relieved my father was remarrying and I liked the woman he was marrying; she was always friendly and polite, not the mean stepmother at all. As I found out later, she gave my dad a reason to keep living. (He told her that he'd planned to kill himself on my graduation day.) I was 16 when they married, into drugs, sex and rock'n'roll, had many friends, a car and a boyfriend. I was happy that I would not have to spend as much time with my dad anymore; he scared and depressed me and I was into my own hedonistic life.
After the wedding we three, my dad, stepmom and me, returned home. They seemed happy. Then my stepmom went into their bedroom to change the bed sheets with new ones they had just received as a wedding present. My dad and I were in the living room when we heard my stepmom scream bloody murder. Upon rushing into the bedroom, I saw a pile of bedding and sheets on the floor. My stepmom was trembling and weeping, pointing to the bare mattress, stained with a huge pool of blood. My mother's blood. The horror I felt in that moment is indescribable: My father had slept on her blood for two years.
Not only that. He had 'made' me lie in her blood, too. Ever since I was a little girl, my father would give me a quarter if I would lie next to him on the bed and 'tickle his neck.' Tickling the back of his neck relaxed him, helped him fall asleep. After my mom died, he got deeply depressed, and so he would ask me to tickle his neck . . . I did it for about a year.
Years later, at my dad's funeral, my stepmom thought it was time to disclose a family secret: My dad had confessed to my stepmom that he knew my mom was suicidal. He knew that she was packing a gun around in her purse the whole week before she died. He said he didn't take it away from her because he believed that the firing pin was inoperative.
This scene has played in mind over and over. It has wrought anger, pity, horror and compassion in an ever-evolving spiral.
Mr. Hyde
Thank you for sharing this permeating, detailed story with me, Mr. Hyde. I am currently pondering the inner core of everything that you have written (i.e., like you, I tend to reply in a spontaneous mode, but, this time, I am contemplative) along with the other posts that you have left for me, and will respond.
DeleteI want to respond, Mr. Hyde. Truly.
First "chapter":
DeleteYour thoughts have been embedding into my mind during this contemplative phase that I experienced after reading them, Mr. Hyde.
Second "chapter":
DeleteAfter internalizing everything by ascending and descending into this realm that we have connected through, my mind created a link to "Die Zauberflote" and "The Marriage of Figaro." I hope that you can discern my meaning in a mode that would have happened had I "given" you my thoughts in person, Mr. Hyde. Light and dark fragments have been rolling through my head, knowing that you have shared something with me that reaches deeply into the crux of the matter. I always want to say more to you, Mr. Hyde...peeling later after layer.
Peeling layer after layer....further into another mind-thought of "this" as I listen to "Until the Morning Comes" by Thievery Corporation. I dislike the name of this group that sings it, but I deeply love the song.
DeleteOne more thing, Mr. Hyde. I am now "walking" with you through the indescribable. Life beckons. ;)
Adding to the above: How does it feel to sleep on blood, Mr. Hyde?
Delete"After internalizing everything by ascending and descending into this realm that we have connected through, my mind created a link to "Die Zauberflote" and "The Marriage of Figaro." I hope that you can discern my meaning in a mode that would have happened had I "given" you my thoughts in person, Mr. Hyde. Light and dark fragments have been rolling through my head, knowing that you have shared something with me that reaches deeply into the crux of the matter. I always want to say more to you, Mr. Hyde...peeling later after layer."
DeleteThank you Parnasse . . . I believe I grasp the essence of what you are trying to say. The magic flute guides us through the confusing relational labyrinth of Figaro's marriage quest.
The crux of the matter, yours and mine entwined.
I listened to "Until Morning Comes" and loved it. Really. So much I then listened to TC's album, "Saudade," which I also was captivated by. Thank you. You have great taste in music. :)
How does it feel? I didn't know until years afterward, and when I found out I was angry and horrified. I think my dad likely realized that I never would have consented to lie in her blood. Perhaps he 'forgot' in all his grief and guilt; that's about as generous as I can get, even today.
I was the last person see my mother alive. My whole family blamed me for not staying home with her when she clearly needed someone. I left her alone and she died. My dad found her and when I got home from the pizza place, he was in a rage. I think my dad unconsciously wanted me to lie in her blood. I think he couldn't face his own guilt in the matter.
Anyway, I've said too much. Obviously, this material is still too raw and unprocessed for me to talk about rationally, in a detached manner.
Still, life continues to beckon in infinite ways.
Mr. Hyde
The magic flute weaves a tapestry that you seem to grasp rather well. I am impressed with your deductive, advanced skills. I am quite happy to know you. The crux or core of the matter is intertwined for you and me, so much that I am deeply drawn to it.
DeleteThank you for complimenting my taste in music. I am attracted to pieces that peak and pierce into the hidden corners of the intricate tapestry that we weave as each day goes by. The splendor of it rises and stimulates those channels that are opening one after the other.
The story you are developing above fascinates me. Even though your thoughts are raw, which I happen to like on a personal level, is there more to it, Mr. Hyde?
Thank you, Parnasse. "impressed"
DeleteI am happy to know you, too. It's your mindful depths that truly fascinates me, combined with your ability to probe ideas and feelings beneath the surface.
The story above is a set piece from my life, Parnasse. One of many that has built the foundation of my 'identity' (for lack of a better word.) Of course there is more to it . . . suffice to say that my dad and me had a difficult relationship that did not evolve but became ever more distant, fraught with misunderstandings and 'opposing' goals. We could never seem to get to the crux of our relationship. Our love for each other became distorted, thus painful for both. I disappointed him in several ways; he loathed my imagination, my writing and metaphysical interests. I was not allowed to speak of those things which were vitally important to me. I forgive him and my mom for bailing and know in my heart that they forgive me, too. But that does not change what happened nor the impact it had.
Have you read the memoir "Darkness Visible" by William Styron? His description of how his parent's suicide affected him is very similar to mine.
Even so, I would not change those circumstances, knowing that I would not be who I am today without having gone through that particular hell.
I don't plan on writing fiction based on my life, but, as you know, one's writing always reflects our deepest unconscious thoughts. A dear friend, a writer of dark fantasy, once compared his writing to a grave stone rubbing. And an ink blot analysis. :))
Another writer I know wrote a novel in which one of the main characters committed suicide. He told me that he'd written the suicide based on my experience, which I'd told him about. The funny thing was that it rang utterly false. When he sold the book, the editor made him remove it. My point is that he couldn't write about something so completely alien to his inner being. He had listened to me talk about it but could never truly relate. He hasn't actually fumbled in terror through the darkness. His happy, easy life inhibits him from delving too deep.
And that is why I would not change my past. I know that all the pain and suffering of those years paints an 'undercoat' to all I think and write. I believe my best work will come from that place.
Mr. Hyde
PS How goes the project? I admit that I am intensely curious. ;)
Writing is the mirror of our subconscious labyrinth, Mr. Hyde. I want to read "Darkness Visible," since I am deeply interested in the turning points that deeply affect the course of our lives.
DeleteYour story is becoming increasingly appealing to me, and I like dwelling and delving within the "undercoat" that makes up and shapes your origins. I am attracted to "roots," sublayers and the original rawness that glazes the outer surface. You and I seem to be fascinated by similar things, and, once again, thank you for complimenting me above. I like reading your story in the pieces that link it to other things that I have observed about you. I have been building my own "tapestry" of who you are in my mind, adding more and more to it as we continue to know and understand each other. Also, I am so glad to hear that you would not change the past. My reason is closely related to some thoughts that I have been having for some time. ;)
You are quite right in thinking that one can't possibly write well when it comes to something so foreign to his/her inner or true being. It comes naturally to you. Your friend could never convey the same message, and a witty mind would always know and see through it.
My project is evolving, Mr. Hyde. I plan to tell you more about it. In the interim, I have a question based on an observation. Although you would not like to write about life situations, have you ever written short stories about "fumbling in terror through the darkness," as you have phrased it? I believe that I would really like to read them.
More:
Delete"A dear friend, a writer of dark fantasy, once compared his writing to a grave stone rubbing. And an ink blot analysis."
I see dark fantasy writing in a twisted mode that brings back the following visualization:
"To run with the wolf was to run in the shadows, the dark ray of life, survival and instinct. A fierceness that was both proud and lonely, a tearing, a howling, a hunger and thirst. Blessed are they who hunger and thirst. A strength that would die fighting, kicking, screaming, that wouldn't stop until the last breath had been wrung from its body. The will to take one's place in the world. To say 'I am here.' To say 'I am'." O.R. Mellings
Such is the path toward awakening those sensations that long to be known through writing, seeping into and filling the deep markings of the envisioned grave stone. Strings of thoughts form and drip onto the profound markings, akin to the flow of highly concentrated, emerging ink.
Is there a specific literary or writing reference that comes to mind when picturing this combination of dark ideas and feelings even further, Mr. Hyde? I like the above hunger and thirst "passage." ;)
"Such is the path toward awakening those sensations that long to be known through writing, seeping into and filling the deep markings of the envisioned grave stone."
DeleteSo true. It's also a path of discovery that I can do safely. If I quenched my thirst for life, entire oceans would be drained. The emerging ink (from my fingers) would be mere inches, however. Being human has its limitations. Thankfully.
Hunger and thirst are conditions to all life. So it goes. No blame.
I prefer to sublimate as much as possible and have been known to fast -- physically and socially -- for months on end. ;) Writing is fabulous for projecting inner drives and for analyzing one's deeper self. Exploring taboo spaces within myself is paramount to my quest.
I wish there was a way to share some of my stories, but I can't figure how to do that without revealing my identity (through published work) or sharing the stories I am presently working on. Which I cannot, will not do. Let me think a while . . . I may have to write something else instead. Just for you, Parnasse. :)
"I am attracted to "roots," sublayers and the original rawness that glazes the outer surface."
That's very apparent. I am curious about your 'raw' places, too, of course. That's one of our bonds, the desire to probe all hidden places. We both want to experience reality and substance, the solid rock, not simply its outline and shadow. Images are not only false but boring; Essence is anything but.
I'm flattered and touched that you're building a 'tapestry.' My tapestry of you is also forming and the nuances of colored ink are making a big splash. :) I wish to share my experiences with you and hope you want to share yours. I would also love to hear a story from you.
I believe that we come from different, complimentary spectrums. I wonder what kind of insightful lightshow will evolve. I trust it will be delightful and interesting. You are certainly not like anyone I have ever met. :)
What's your favorite color? Your favorite fictional monster?
Mr. Hyde
.
“I wish there was a way to share some of my stories, but I can't figure how to do that without revealing my identity (through published work) or sharing the stories I am presently working on. Which I cannot, will not do. Let me think a while . . . I may have to write something else instead. Just for you, Parnasse. :)”
DeleteI would really like to read what you are willing to offer, Mr. Hyde. I understand your concerns, though, knowing at the same time that you will find a way. ;)
I have become thoroughly familiar with “Being John Malkovich,” and its key points that integrate so well within the plot: the identities of the characters, the “door” or portal of the New Jersey Turnpike and their physical presence in this particular state, the link between the intricacies of their minds, and the ensuing finale of the forthcoming action and climax.
“That's very apparent. I am curious about your 'raw' places, too, of course. That's one of our bonds, the desire to probe all hidden places. We both want to experience reality and substance, the solid rock, not simply its outline and shadow. Images are not only false but boring; Essence is anything but.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIYOxxz9YFg
“I'm flattered and touched that you're building a 'tapestry.' My tapestry of you is also forming and the nuances of colored ink are making a big splash. :)"
I am getting an image of the big splash, seeing the colors being absorbed into the evolving tapestry. I want to share my experiences with you, and thoughts of the story that I will post for you are rolling and embedding in my highly stirred or roused mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP2jz7UCiig
"I believe that we come from different, complimentary spectrums. I wonder what kind of insightful lightshow will evolve. I trust it will be delightful and interesting. You are certainly not like anyone I have ever met. :)"
I see you in the same light, Mr. Hyde. I “look” at you, and I see so much of myself in there (i.e., different as I am, which is a great thing to know and feel). That is essential to our bond. The lightshow is superbly one-of-a-kind.
“What's your favorite color? Your favorite fictional monster?”
I am presenting “the trilogy” in a way that is meant to answer your question as One:
Color: black. Monster: King Kong (How did you know? It’s as though you’ve read my mind. ;)
Color: deep red. Monster: Elektra/by Richard Strauss, to a German-language libretto by Hugo von Hofmannsthal.
Color: all seasons palette. Monster: Frankenstein.
What is the darkest monster that you can fathom, Mr. Hyde? And why would you think so?
Tailpiece: Does the fathomed monster reach for agape?
Last question first. The monster always reaches for agape. King Kong loves Fay's beauty. He's willing to risk everything to safeguard it.
DeleteMy darkest monster is meaningless. And the mob, of course. The mob of humanity would destroy Anything. And feel good about it. Justified.
Lack of purpose and impact in the scheme of things can be disheartening.. That can take many forms. Sadly.
It's been a long day, Parnasse. People around me are hurting. Got to go.
Back at you later. :)
Mr. Hyde
“Last question first. The monster always reaches for agape. King Kong loves Fay's beauty. He's willing to risk everything to safeguard it.”
DeleteThat must be when he does agape.
“My darkest monster is meaningless. And the mob, of course. The mob of humanity would destroy Anything. And feel good about it. Justified.”
I know that, too. It’s about both climbing and moving them.
Mountains. ;)
“Lack of purpose and impact in the scheme of things can be disheartening.. That can take many forms. Sadly.”
Spoon: an instrument chiefly used for the purpose of refueling the body and soul in the scheme of things.
First question lasting.
Do you ever feel like your passions are all gathered together deftly like fingers that make a shielding fist, Mr. Hyde?
"Do you ever feel like your passions are all gathered together deftly like fingers that make a shielding fist, Mr. Hyde?"
DeleteOf course. And with palms and wide open, too. Today, I'm feeling like "Stands with a fist" from "Dances with Wolves." Talking softly but carrying a big stick around the house. Lol.
The first link you provided failed to link. Sorry I missed it.
"I am getting an image of the big splash, seeing the colors being absorbed into the evolving tapestry. I want to share my experiences with you, and thoughts of the story that I will post for you are rolling and embedding in my highly stirred or roused mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP2jz7UCiig"
Got that one. ;))
"I see you in the same light, Mr. Hyde. I “look” at you, and I see so much of myself in there (i.e., different as I am, which is a great thing to know and feel). That is essential to our bond. The lightshow is superbly one-of-a-kind"
You are different than me yet we share something profound. That I do believe. And wonder where it will lead. This communion is like moving mountains. Mountains that have slept in the ether, in some other realm . . . spoon in one hand, blade in the other. Spooning soup and cutting bread. Listening to Elektra.
Passion drives everything. I want, therefore I am. ;))
What do you want from a creating a work of art, Parnasse?
Mr. Hyde
What’s in a name, Mr. Hyde?
Delete“John Dunbar: [voice-over] I had never really known who John Dunbar was. Perhaps because the name itself had no meaning. But as I heard my Sioux name being called over and over, I knew for the first time who I really was.”
“You are different than me yet we share something profound. That I do believe. And wonder where it will lead. This communion is like moving mountains. Mountains that have slept in the ether, in some other realm . . . spoon in one hand, blade in the other. Spooning soup and cutting bread. Listening to Elektra.”
I, too, believe and know that we share something profound, but how am I different from you as a person as well as in this realm that you describe so insightfully?
“Passion drives everything. I want, therefore I am. ;))”
True, passion drives everything. “I am Lieutenant John J. Dunbar, and this is my post.” :)
“What do you want from a creating a work of art, Parnasse?”
I would most confidently write “I want you to know who I am” on the highest top of my work of art.
You wrote the following in a previous post: “I feel that you are also on the spectrum…but on a different level than myself or the socio guy referenced above.”
As you think of the realm in your thoughts, which I truly like (“Mountains that have slept in the ether”), what level would you place me on, Mr. Hyde?
Hello Parnasse,
DeleteFirst, I wish you to know that I'm not ignoring you . . . my eyes are still fucked and reading is torture, especially online. It's so badd that I almost o enlist a reader to figure out your post. I may have to go back to the doctor; the medication I'm taking is having awful side effects and my eyes are not any better post-surgery.
A name is a powerful identity marker . . . I changed my first name after having a lucid dream.
I think you must be a great artist: Only the greatest of artists exposes their core, the good, e bad and the ugly.
As for what level I would place you -- I don't know. You are unlike anyone I have ever met. A mystery. The only thing I can add is that I feel you are very different from me on an emotional level. (Thank God.) I think this is part of the attraction for me: We are on the same quest but coming fromdifferent angles.
Wish I could write more but I have to rest my eyes. Will try again later.
Mr. Hyde
“I think you must be a great artist: Only the greatest of artists exposes their core, the good, e bad and the ugly.”
DeleteThank you for the compliment. I can say the same about your artistry, coupled with the openness in your core during our unfolding exchanges. I have been quite attracted to the thoughts and story that you have shared with me so far. In essence, I like speaking and unveiling my mind, because it hurts to bite my tongue, Mr. Hyde.
“I think this is part of the attraction for me: We are on the same quest but coming fromdifferent angles.”
There is a difference between getting the quest that you’ve wanted and getting the one that you could do. As they say, without the force, intensity and vigor of the quest, there can be no epiphany. I believe that makes up the attraction on both of our parts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xButjfhZWVU
Is there another story that you can tell me, reminiscent of the one that you have imparted to me in the previous posts?
I like your inner core and "spirit," Mr. Hyde.
Parnasse, Thank you for your compliments. I wish I could tell you another tale right now, but, I'm leaving town to go on a healing retreat to the woods. eye troubles continue and I'm fed up with the horrible meds I'm forced to take -- side effects are horrendous. So, it's off to the woods for me to stay in a cabin with no internet access. I'll be back in a few days.
DeleteI like your spirit, too, Parnasse. I believe you are like me in that we are both quite intensely on the path to self-knowledge and redemption.
See you soon. (hopefully more clearly, with less watery gunk).
Mr. Hyde
One more thing that I did not mention about my allegorical story is that, in essence, only "two" whole beings are truly and originally in the New City (Zion) that forged the bond. These are Fayn and Lofty/Ghip, since they stand and Evolve as One in my mind, Mr. Hyde.
Delete"There is something bigger than fact: the underlying spirit as it stands for the mood, the vastness, the wildness." E.C.
DeleteAside from that, I understand the nucleus of your message, Mr. Hyde. See you soon.
My eyes are still smarting, etc. The woods were nice but the healing I was hoping for did not happen -- it's off the hospital today. I'm sure you understand my dismay at being half-blind . . . hopefully the doctors will fix this mess. I admit to feeling a bit desperate at this point; I can't write my own stuff and am falling way behind schedule. Reading online is pure torture as the meds have spawned an unholy sensitivity to light. ;)
DeleteI'm here to tell you that your thoughts are never far from my mind.
I miss our conversations. You ignite my imagination. A trip to Zion is exactly what I need.
Our underlying spirit is indeed wild and vast.
Off to see the modern witch doctors. See you when I can. Meanwhile, I had a strange dream in the cabin in the woods that I think you were in! You'll laugh when I tell it to you. The symbolism appeared quite clear to me.
Mr. Hyde
PS May I ask: Are you a socio? Makes no difference to me; I'm simply curious.
Yes, I am au fait with your thoughts, grasping the tincture of your sensitivity to light.
DeleteSpeaking of the woods, your thoughts are never far afield from my mind, and I, too, miss our conversations. Our imaginations link together so well within the natural conduit of Zion. Having a spirit that is wild and vast is something that I have found in you, and I see its magnitude.
You’re off to see the modern witch doctors. Do you believe in their potent brews, potions and elixirs, Mr. Hyde? I am trying to picture you in the presence of a modern apothecary, distilling the essence of the ingredients and maker written in small print on the back cover of the bottle…and taking well-versed mind notes at the same time. ;)
Like you, I have strange dreams, too, Mr. Hyde. You are in there, allied to unencumbered and growing symbolism.
“PS May I ask: Are you a socio? Makes no difference to me; I'm simply curious.”
I believe that you know the answer to this particular question, Mr. Hyde. You do. :)
First autumn afternoon
the hand mirror I see
shows your face.
No one travels
along this path but you and I,
this autumn afternoon.
Do you know it now, Mr. Hyde?
"Our imaginations link together so well within the natural conduit of Zion. Having a spirit that is wild and vast is something that I have found in you, and I see its magnitude."
DeleteThank you Parnasse. In the realm of Zion, i.e., spiritual quest to create harmony in diversity, tolerance, we are the same.
" Do you believe in their potent brews, potions and elixirs?" In terms of my eyes, at this point, yes. In terms of other doctors, not always. Today was rough. I have apparently "leveled out" in terms of recovery from a work injury. And I've been told I should move from my neighborhood. Anyway, I refuse to believe that I can't recover.
"You are in there, allied to unencumbered and growing symbolism."
There you go, tickling my fancy. Examples of symbolism?
"First autumn afternoon
the hand mirror I see
shows your face.
No one travels
along this path but you and I,
this autumn afternoon."
Lovely. :) You do have a gift for words. Your many writings have peaked my interest on various levels.
Mr. Hyde
"One more thing that I did not mention about my allegorical story is that, in essence, only "two" whole beings are truly and originally in the New City (Zion) that forged the bond. These are Fayn and Lofty/Ghip, since they stand and Evolve as One in my mind, Mr. Hyde."
The site is not responding well to my posts, Parnasse. The last post kept delaying keyboard strokes. Frustrating.
DeleteYou know that I asked you the S question outright to see what you what say. ;) After all, I admitted to you that I came to this site because I wanted to understand sociopathy because I worked with them. Low functioning but nevertheless very impactful. Not just to me, but countless others. And I dislike destruction. I love creation.
You are a creator at heart, I believe. I think you want to build bridges. Yes?
You also know that while I do have angry moments, depressions, despair and have wanted to sock some people in the mouth, I have not. And more importantly, will not. Descending to any kind of psychological or other violence is abhorrent to me as a wannabee human, spiritual being. Most people think I'm a little crazy. ;)
Fayn and Lofty/Grip HAVE to evolve and work in symbiosis, or All is lost!
That's the conclusion I've come to after being traumatized by some socios and by coming to this site, reading on the topic somewhat. A middle way is called for. Do you hear it? I think you do. :)
Surely the world, the universe, is big enough for us all. Yin and yang.
Mr. Hyde
“There you go, tickling my fancy. Examples of symbolism?”
DeleteThey don’t come in a particular order, but here they are, Mr. Hyde:
“My Compilation of Ibsen - From My Mind's Stream to Yours”
Mists of the night come gliding,
Over the river’s brink,
Deep in the soul, confiding
Dreams of fair visions sink;
While living thing are sleeping,
Through yon dark woods go creeping;
Midnight's hour is near.
Here is the spot for dreaming,
Here in the silent night,
Here where your heart’s fond theming
Is with sweet music dight:
The tones that the wave produces
Ring out as though spirits played,
Sighs from yon forest spruces
Add to the serenade.
+
Over this opulent Nature a-dream,
Murk of a spiritual gloom spread its pinion,
Does not the bard come to end
Night’s dominion,
Flooding the gloomiest scree with day’s gleam?
Shall not the lofty, the lovely conception
Nature has pleased to instill in our lays
Gush from our breast in that splendor’s bright rays
With a new-clarified strength of perception;
+
No, I must deep down explore,
Where there’s night for evermore,
Heavy hammer, help me enter
Into Nature’s hidden center!
On it goes then, blow on blow
Till he drops from toiling so,
There’s no gleam of radiant morning,
No bright clarity, no dawning!
+
I’m thinking of the legend of the swan;
It was life’s end first set its music ringing,
Before, quite mute;
so let’s mark the beginning
Of our own journey with a cheerful song.
+
A lovely creature sits there and graces in easel-reach the gallery’s spaces."
A thousand words might leave so deep an impression as One, veering, filling look, Mr. Hyde. ;)
(That was a question for you. Do we see eye to eye on it?)
Continuing prior thoughts from this afternoon:
DeleteZion anchors our spiritual quest, Mr. Hyde. I want to feel that quest, tolerance and acceptance becoming a copious part of our guide. Being the same in Zion is the root of a dream that has always beckoned in my veins.
“You do have a gift for words. Your many writings have peaked my interest on various levels.”
Thank you. Your words read like an encomium at this point, Mr. Hyde. My interest in your writing peaks day after day, each peak taking on a different caliber or inner, secret impact [cloak-and-dagger here ;)].
“You are a creator at heart, I believe. I think you want to build bridges. Yes?”
Yes, my allegiance to this reads like so:
The highest oak on the bridge -
on the Aqueduct of Segovia or Nazca,
as it resumes its course
the water looks between the bridges,
for its favored route.
needing the Obelisk-Oak,
that has remembered the dream’s words in the woods,
has blossomed this moment.
“You also know that while I do have angry moments, depressions, despair and have wanted to sock some people in the mouth, I have not. And more importantly, will not. Descending to any kind of psychological or other violence is abhorrent to me as a wannabee human, spiritual being. Most people think I'm a little crazy. ;)”
I will elate you, and you will be my fillip, too.
Impetus: We will both ascend together. As to your being seen as “a little crazy,” why would we want ordinary days? :)
“Fayn and Lofty/Grip HAVE to evolve and work in symbiosis, or All is lost!”
It would be a most engaging symbiosis, launching the messages and their symbiosis coming back in return. Questions are asked, envisaging Fayn, Lofty/Ghip without the stitch of descent (in Zion).
Does devising a middle way make you happy, Mr. Hyde?
“Do you hear it? I think you do.”
I do. ;)
Parnasse, You are such an evocative thinker!
DeleteTo answer you briefly:
Rising from the depths of being,
From eye to eye the sea doth gleam.
Sleepless spirit bubble bright,
Breach the surface, taking flight.
Oh morning star, born of night!
Dream in the woods:
I am in my house and all is as it should be, surrounded by objects all to familiar. Wandering from room to room, the air wobbles and for a brief second everything blurs. I rub my eyes (those twin magic lamps) and the room snaps back into focus. Everything looks exactly the same . . . but not. I begin to closely examine every object, noticing that my African violets have changed from pink to light violet. My books have somehow swapped titles: instead of "Dante's Inferno" it reads "Inverted Dominos" and other nonsense. I glance at the mirror on the wall and see a strange sight: the back of someone's head. Moving closer, the figure retreats to a place beyond the edge of the glass. I go to the fridge for a glass of milk and find that gravity no longer works: the milk rises from the carton and I have to hold the glass upsidedown to fill it. (This amazes me and I laugh.) I realize that my entire house and everything in it is not what I thought it was. I go back to the mirror and watch myself drink the milk. From the edge of the glass appears the mysterious figure; she runs from one end of the frame of glass to other, waving at me before once again disappearing.
I wake up: YOU are the first thing that pops into my mind. ;))
Mr. Hyde
PS Finding and disclosing to others the middle way would indeed make me very happy. That's what I believe nature has intended. All life is interconnected . . . and I believe that all human 'wars' are worse than useless. (For more details, please refer to the nightly news.)
DeleteYou may laugh but I am worried sick about the future of all life on earth. And so, if I could have one superpower it would be the power to heal every human heart of its mortal wounds. (I don't worry about the hearts of animals as theirs is perfectly pure.) However, as things stand within myself and in regards to human affairs, touching and being touched, appears the best and most practical choice. The only choice that will bring about the much needed change and revival.
I will gladly be your fillip, and you mine. The road to Zion beckons.
Mr. Hyde
Part 1:
DeleteI am drawn to your aromatic thinking, Mr. Hyde. ;)
"I wake up: YOU are the first thing that pops into my mind. ;)"
I really like "firsts," too, Mr. Hyde, wanting to know...impact. A mind can be a veritable "wonderland."
I had to take a nap, which was a fruitful experience, since I can recall my dream. On reflection, it felt as though I was living within it.
So, in this late-afternoon dream, I was in my favorite room of the house, actually rising from bed and feeling something divergent and deviant all around me. At one point, I thought that I saw a passing shadow cloaking the surface of the armchair in the far corner of the room. I glanced again, but having drawn the curtains, I thought that it might have been the dancing rays of the playful late-afternoon sun, or even the large, chirpy branches of the oak tree that is close to my window. I took yet another look, and while doing so, I changed into a favorite, swish outfit, knowing that sometime during the enfolding evening, I had to prepare for continuing the work on my project. But as I turned around to turn on a lamp, I heard and felt a type of movement emerging from the same armchair. The captivating discovery was that I did not feel any uneasiness at all; quite the reverse, I took pleasure in it, wondering who or what it was. As I pondered these questions while illuminating the room even further, I suddenly knew the answers to them, as though they were distinctly coming from the cloaked armchair. Whoever it was, I did not want to be disruptive, either, and so, I continued to do what I wanted in the room (i.e., what I most desired, that is). In the meantime, the exchange was ongoing, just as I had previously experienced it when contemplating my initial questions. I was now sitting by the warming window, and as I glimpsed at the armchair, I realized that it was the shadow and silhouette of an inquisitive, distinctive-looking man.
In those moments, I wanted to know him so well, like no other soul.
But as with all of the dreams that we want to remain in, I woke up from it rather slowly and opened my eyes.
There were a couple of posts from you. Familiar. ;)
Part 2:
Delete“Rising from the depths of being,
From eye to eye the sea doth gleam.
Sleepless spirit bubble bright,
Breach the surface, taking flight.
Oh morning star, born of night!”
As I designed and intended to discover
the scent and of legendary, illustrious dreams,
I absorbed the night and fell spontaneously upon the day
my life was entering another’s artistry.
And as though seeking to know it, words peaked upon the reef.
Your dream in the woods transmits so much of the “mirror-effect” that I have unearthed when thinking of you. I believe that gravity-wise, dreams make it possible for the topology of time to alter and revive, spilling into reality.
It is quite intensifying to see the breadth of your imagination as it manifests through the subconscious coating of your dreams. You are watching yourself in the mirror, drinking the milk as the mysterious figure beckons and gestures in an inviting fashion. In retrospect, I was being watched quite intently in my late-afternoon dream, a theme which reoccurs in my nightly dreams as well. Why do you think that is, Mr. Hyde?
“PS Finding and disclosing to others the middle way would indeed make me very happy. That's what I believe nature has intended. All life is interconnected . . . and I believe that all human 'wars' are worse than useless. (For more details, please refer to the nightly news.)”
I would like you to be very happy, taking comfort in the idea that nature has good intentions. I hope this thought revitalizes your nightly news. :)
“However, as things stand within myself and in regards to human affairs, touching and being touched, appears the best and most practical choice. The only choice that will bring about the much needed change and revival.”
Your point in this area was on my mind, too. As things manifest within my own being, as well as within the scope of human affairs, touching and being touched means that every gesture and every last bit of intent has its rare and surprising place, which brings happiness to the person who knows how to wake it.
“I will gladly be your fillip, and you mine. The road to Zion beckons.”
When we fillip in unison, the path to Zion fillips as well.
Why do you think that it swapped to “Inverted Dominos” from “Dante’s Inferno,” Mr. Hyde? I love to interpret dreams, and knowing someone who likes doing it with me. ;)
...the scent and of legendary, illustrious dreams,
DeleteI meant: the scent and living-breath of legendary, illustrious dreams,...
"In retrospect, I was being watched quite intently in my late-afternoon dream, a theme which reoccurs in my nightly dreams as well. Why do you think that is, Mr. Hyde?"
DeleteIf dream figures are simply projected aspects of our deeper self, then it seems reasonable to speculate that your deeper mind, the mysterious armchair presence, is watching/observing you. It would seem that you aware of this deep observer-mind and are 'attracted' to it. You want to know it on a conscious level. I would view this dream theme as a quest for meta-consciousness.
My guess is based on the belief that all dream figures are 'characters' created by the subconscious as a means to communicate with the dreamer in the intra-psychic realm. Have you ever had a lucid dream? I used to have them all the time; not so much now. They can be incredibly soulfully delicious! One of my all-time favorite lucid dreams:
I'm standing ankle deep in the clear blue sea. The water is perfectly calm. The sunshine glints off the blazing white sand. I wade up to my waist. Looking down through the clear water I suddenly see a herd of amazing creatures crawling on the seabed, encircling me: crab-like hybrids of man and beast. Most have long tentacles and tiny human faces with mouths that look dangerous. Now I know I am dreaming, and am no longer afraid. I think: These queer hybrids are a part of me and they wish to speak, not bite me. So even though I'm a bit scared to pluck one from the seabed, I do, and when I hold the creature up to the sun it opens its human mouth and begins to tell me secrets. Treasures from the depths of my soul. I don't remember what the creature said now, being so many years ago, though I did write the whole thing out in one of my journals. anyway, when I awoke I felt like something transformative had occurred, an integration of different layers of consciousness. I wrote many stories right after the dream, as if my imagination had been re-vitalized.
Mr. Hyde
"I would like you to be very happy, taking comfort in the idea that nature has good intentions. I hope this thought revitalizes your nightly news. :)"
DeleteI think I need to clarify myself. I would not characterize nature as having 'good intentions' because 'good' is a human value, and most of nature is not human . . . as well, I would venture to postulate that nature's 'intention' is to gather information from bio-diversity, so that Nature can evolve into ever higher levels of awareness/complexity. Whatever form that complexity may take is fine by me. Nature's impulse to move from chaos to complexity, to evolve from single cells to organisms and so on, fascinates and inspires me. Whatever fascinates and inspires, comforts me.
"Your point in this area was on my mind, too. As things manifest within my own being, as well as within the scope of human affairs, touching and being touched means that every gesture and every last bit of intent has its rare and surprising place, which brings happiness to the person who knows how to wake it."
Yes. :)
"Why do you think that it swapped to “Inverted Dominos” from “Dante’s Inferno,” Mr. Hyde? I love to interpret dreams, and knowing someone who likes doing it with me. ;)"
I also like fiddling with dream symbolism, Parnasse. (I view my dreams as messages from the unconscious imagination.) What does your observer-in-the-armchair dream say to you? Usually, the best interpreter of a dream is the dreamer. ;)
I think the inverted dominos symbolizes another facet of the 'mirror' effect, and, perhaps also as a sly subconscious joke: My mind is saying, Look you're behind the mirror, where gravity is reversed and ordinary logic/laws of nature, do not apply. The dominos may also represent the 'domino effect' that happens in consciousness when the 'dots' of nonsense connect, i.e., the 'aha' moment. Why the title swap with Dante's Inferno in particular? Not sure. Knowing me, however, it's likely because that book inspired a new view 'crime and punishment' within my own judgmental mind, in a hilarious way. I learned a lot about judging myself and others reading DI. So I think my dreaming mind was saying, Forget Dante's logical-religious schema of sin, tit-for-tit. You're in shadowtime here, where milk pours up not down, and everything's topsy-turvy.
I like delving into maverick realms of enchantment.
Mr. Hyde
"
“If dream figures are simply projected aspects of our deeper self, then it seems reasonable to speculate that your deeper mind, the mysterious armchair presence, is watching/observing you. It would seem that you aware of this deep observer-mind and are 'attracted' to it. You want to know it on a conscious level. I would view this dream theme as a quest for meta-consciousness.”
DeleteThe quest for meta-consciousness is quite real in me, Mr. Hyde. It is rooted in my strong desire to reflect that which is most original and unaffected in my being. After all, my message to you in the posts that I’ve sent has highlighted the intent to be original/real with you, culminating in the yearning and appealing resolve to transmit the following message: “I just want you to know who I am.” I suppose that some of the lyrics in the song “Iris” by the Goo Goo Dolls (i.e., I heard it this morning while waking up from yet another dream) bring some truth into the filaments of my own metacognition. I am referring to obiquitous, albeit specific, words like “And all I can taste is this moment; 'Cause I don't think that they'd understand; When everything feels like the movies; Yeah, you bleed just to know you're alive; I just want you to know who I am.” So, all of these phrases are interwoven within the concept of the higher meta-consciousness, which, tantamount to my own inner self, stem from that which is indubitably original. Overall, chronicled works of art, including novels, films and musical compositions, can be viewed as metacognitive surges, which are created by the artist to accompany the beliefs and cognitive processes of the recipient. Having said that, there is no order in the course of events and their causes, demonstrating how such messages are unveiled to the one who receives. I would like to point out that mere order does not have profound effects on the aesthetical meaning of a text. Things are inverted (i.e., as you have observed with the dominos), and chronicled works of art encompass a true depiction of their inner reception process. Come to think of it, they are comparable to a tool, or a medium, through which the creator of the work desires to reach and impart certain aesthetical impressions or effects.
“My guess is based on the belief that all dream figures are 'characters' created by the subconscious as a means to communicate with the dreamer in the intra-psychic realm. Have you ever had a lucid dream? I used to have them all the time; not so much now. They can be incredibly soulfully delicious!”
Yes, they can be scrumptious and exhilarating. I’ve had several lucid dreams, some of which have been rather revelatory within the context of specific life situations.
“So even though I'm a bit scared to pluck one from the seabed, I do, and when I hold the creature up to the sun it opens its human mouth and begins to tell me secrets. Treasures from the depths of my soul.”
Your lucid dream has piqued-or-peaked-or-peeked my interest in a way that I can animatedly (i.e., “anima”) describe as upside-down, seeing each word as overturned on its drawing head. Have you acted on any one of the secrets that you were told, Mr. Hyde?
The Second Part: About the Dream
Delete“Yes. :)
I also like fiddling with dream symbolism, Parnasse. (I view my dreams as messages from the unconscious imagination.) What does your observer-in-the-armchair dream say to you? Usually, the best interpreter of a dream is the dreamer. ;)”
Since dreams come from subconscious filaments, I believe that it would be complementary this instance to respond with another dream, Mr. Hyde.
I am in the middle of a sizeable room, filled with wax-covered, ginormous glasses. Some of these glasses cover all of the six, fixed walls (i.e., the structure is that of a hexagon), and some of them are free standing, gliding and popping in and out sight. The wax is continuously dripping and hot/torrid, but as I look toward the ceiling, it looks and feels like the outer stratosphere of the Earth. In this dream, my eyes see the waxy trickling as a concomitant apparition or shadow of the playful, albeit conceptual, drip-paint canvases of Jackson Pollock (i.e., comparable to the dancing mind and body of Pollock as he sought to create and demonstrate the intricate course, or interlinked, conceptual art in motion). At one point, the free-standing glasses begin to twist, circle and turn like ferris wheels, rearranging themselves as they please throughout the misty room, while the other fixed glasses on the walls continue to trickle. It would be significant to remark at this point that all of them seem alive, or animated, as though being in tune or guided by a resounding orchestra. As I am attempting to identify each instrument that is playing like an echo in my mind, I find myself squinting to the point where I see a face in one of the wax-dripping glasses. I look at the other glasses all over the room, and I see the same face.
Who could it be?
“I think the inverted dominos symbolizes another facet of the 'mirror' effect, and, perhaps also as a sly subconscious joke: My mind is saying, Look you're behind the mirror, where gravity is reversed and ordinary logic/laws of nature, do not apply. The dominos may also represent the 'domino effect' that happens in consciousness when the 'dots' of nonsense connect, i.e., the 'aha' moment.”
Yes, the “Aha!” moment. It all makes sense now, Mr. Hyde, and I naturally like this song. ;)
{ Since dreams come from subconscious filaments, I believe that it would be complementary this instance to respond with another dream, Mr. Hyde.
Delete...in this instance....}
Adding to Previous-Two-Parts:
Delete“I think I need to clarify myself. I would not characterize nature as having 'good intentions' because 'good' is a human value, and most of nature is not human . . . as well, I would venture to postulate that nature's 'intention' is to gather information from bio-diversity, so that Nature can evolve into ever higher levels of awareness/complexity. Whatever form that complexity may take is fine by me. Nature's impulse to move from chaos to complexity, to evolve from single cells to organisms and so on, fascinates and inspires me. Whatever fascinates and inspires, comforts me.”
I can see your thoughts occurring and evolving within the web of the diverse seasons of nature. If you were to personify each season, which would be the one to attain the higher levels of awareness or complexity? Where would you place “the” bridge between chaos and complexity. Would it be here: spring bridge fall? Would it be here: summer bridge spring? Would it be here: winter bridge fall? If not, would it be here: winter bridge summer? Is there a tangible answer or path, Mr. Hyde?
About my questions above: “Whatever form that complexity may take is fine by me.” Yes. :)
“Why the title swap with Dante's Inferno in particular? Not sure. Knowing me, however, it's likely because that book inspired a new view 'crime and punishment' within my own judgmental mind, in a hilarious way. I learned a lot about judging myself and others reading DI. So I think my dreaming mind was saying, Forget Dante's logical-religious schema of sin, tit-for-tit. You're in shadowtime here, where milk pours up not down, and everything's topsy-turvy.”
It would be enthusing to connect my subconscious mind to yours (i.e., through the use of a given device, let’s say…) and see the ensuing “shadowtime, topsy-turvy” panorama. As the subconscious is characterized, it would be both intricate and raw: a most ground-breaking, shuffled or perpetually rearranging vista. In motion. Instinctive music would unleash its upward flow, linguistics would include morphology, and the floor of our thoughts, which is really the subconscious mind, would rock! ;)
“I like delving into maverick realms of enchantment.”
Eccentric! You-I-like. :)
"Yeah, you bleed just to know you're alive; I just want you to know who I am.”
DeleteDitto. ::D
What else is there"
Time is pressed. A company of wolves is here. )
I like you, too. Your mind is expansive. More later.
Mr. Hyde Hairy hugs.
So, all of these phrases are interwoven within the concept of the higher meta-consciousness, which, tantamount to my own inner self, stem from that which is indubitably original.
“Ditto. ::D
DeleteWhat else is there"
What else is there? “And I don’t wanna go home right now.” [Also from the Goo Goo doll.:)]
Fittingly, I want to know who you are. Everything.
"Time is pressed. A company of wolves is here. )"
I can fathom that quite well.
“I like you, too. Your mind is expansive. More later.”
Thank you. Your mind is vast and in tune with mine. The tuning part is a “true” first for me.
“Mr. Hyde Hairy hugs.”
Hairy hugs? Well, that’s yet another first for me. Yes, I like it. I am sending you some “first” hugs as well, Mr. Hyde. ;)
"It would be enthusing . . . to see the shadowtime."
DeleteYes. What else besides knowing the fundsmental forces of spacetime matter? I have so much more to say, but the hungry cubs are coming. :D
"it would be both intricate and raw: a most ground-breaking, shuffled or perpetually rearranging vista. In motion. Instinctive music would unleash its upward flow, linguistics would include morphology, and the floor of our thoughts, which is really the subconscious mind, would rock! ;)"
I believe it could, Parnasse. We share a topsy-turvy existence. If, as a socio, i.e., megalomaniac, you can share in real time your real feelings or lack thereof, then I will share all of my feelings with you.
Eccentric planets, having an extended orbit, bring about the greatest change.
Mr. Hyde
". . .to connect my subconscious mind to yours (i.e., through the use of a given device, let’s say…) and see the ensuing “shadowtime, topsy-turvy” panorama.
I'm game. :D Within bonded rules.
"As the subconscious is characterized, it would be both intricate and raw: a most ground-breaking, shuffled or perpetually rearranging vista. In motion."
Perhaps. I hope so. ::)
"Instinctive music would unleash its upward flow, linguistics would include morphology"
Delightfully!
". . . and the floor of our thoughts, which is really the subconscious mind, would rock! ;)"
Anything is possible. If one is authentic to the mystery of an ever-changing truth.
Rocking the ages into a symbiotic shape that includes all species is essential to survival of all earthly life. Evolution loves diversity. I want to evolve.
Lets rock!
Mr. Hyde
" Is there a tangible answer or path, Mr. Hyde?"
DeleteYes. In my limited view, the organism would have to evolve through every season -- all species do. One season is not superior to another; one season of birth does preordain success within the scope of the potential qualities of the person. Environment definitely plays a role. Bonsai. Life finds a way despite or because of environmental conditions/genetic propensities. Life wills out.
Whatever that means.
You are beautiful in your quest to know yourself. ::)
Meta-consciousness is a pet peeve of mine. Always on the list of things to do.
Mr. Hyde
Hairy hugs are hugs that don't fit into ordinary social mores. You know. ;)
Mr. Hyde
Typo. Should read, "one season of birth cannot preordain success."
DeleteMr. Hyde
“Yes. What else besides knowing the fundsmental forces of spacetime matter? I have so much more to say, but the hungry cubs are coming. :D”
DeleteFundamental forces of spacetime matter? Well, if I were to be inside, meaning in one part of your head, which hemisphere would you allow me to see completely? Would there be a specific reason for it? :D
“I believe it could, Parnasse. We share a topsy-turvy existence. If, as a socio, i.e., megalomaniac, you can share in real time your real feelings or lack thereof, then I will share all of my feelings with you.”
Yes, I would be able to share my real feelings with you in real time, and, in turn, I would like to know your feelings. I am in tune with the way that you phrased your thoughts above, since that is exactly what I seek, too. And, true, we have been sharing a topsy-turvy existence for some time. At the same time, we have been revealing the same core beliefs, Mr. Hyde.
“Eccentric planets, having an extended orbit, bring about the greatest change.”
Eccentric planets, an extended orbit and a blazing, soldering comet soaring ever so highly. Change is needed, and the sleeper must awaken. Fully.
“I'm game. :D Within bonded rules.”
Bonded rules? What are these rules, Mr. Hyde?
“Anything is possible. If one is authentic to the mystery of an ever-changing truth.”
I seek to be authentic with you, knowing that I have your acceptance as to who and what I am. That is what I call evolving, and, candidly, it rocks! ;)
Adding My Thoughts:
Delete“Yes. In my limited view, the organism would have to evolve through every season -- all species do. One season is not superior to another; one season of birth [cannot] preordain success within the scope of the potential qualities of the person. Environment definitely plays a role. Bonsai. Life finds a way despite or because of environmental conditions/genetic propensities. Life wills out.”
Evolution through every season, akin to the potential qualities of a person, chooses to build a bridge by fostering and sustaining the necessary force and intensity that life inspires. A season of birth marks the commencement of a cycle that perpetuates itself up to and including the veritable attainment of what it needs. Essentially, it is ever changing, rooted in its desire to expand, and thus, marking its place in the intrinsic web of existence.
“You are beautiful in your quest to know yourself. ::)”
Thank you so much. I “see” you as you truly are, Mr. Hyde, and that has made all the difference in my relating so fully to your traits and desires (i.e., good and bad/light and dark, that is). In essence, you can “see” me as well, and knowing my true self on the part of, or in the world of, another, who is like me, is the attainment that I have always craved and pursued. You are right in thinking that life finds a way despite, or because of, environmental conditions/genetic propensities. As they say, “where there is a will, there is a way,” and life ignites that possibility.
“Meta-consciousness is a pet peeve of mine. Always on the list of things to do.”
Yes. I am drawn to your thoughts, wanting you to realize and perform this act that you have listed, reaching the inner depths of meta-consciousness.
“Hairy hugs are hugs that don't fit into ordinary social mores. You know. ;)”
I do not envision being hugged according to ordinary social mores, Mr. Hyde. Come to think of it, ordinary social mores do not match my genetic propensities for deviancy, force, unconventionalities and high intensity. Hairy hugs would mark the right fit. ;)
A nebulous thought: For how long would you look at a comet?
"After all, my message to you in the posts that I’ve sent has highlighted the intent to be original/real with you, culminating in the yearning and appealing resolve to transmit the following message: “I just want you to know who I am.” I suppose that some of the lyrics in the song “Iris” by the Goo Goo Dolls (i.e., I heard it this morning while waking up from yet another dream) bring some truth into the filaments of my own metacognition. I am referring to obiquitous, albeit specific, words like “And all I can taste is this moment; 'Cause I don't think that they'd understand; When everything feels like the movies; Yeah, you bleed just to know you're alive; I just want you to know who I am.”
DeleteI'm listening to it right now. I feel you and accept your dark side. You feel authentic, a true seeker. All seekers have a dark side and must face it. :D
May I ask what device??
Rules: No gaming or hacking. I don't want anything from you but what you are willing to share and expect the same. I won't ask you ID factors but we will tell each other real stuff, our perceptions and some experiences, dreams, etc. What else is there? ;)
I will tell you 'everything' I can without jeopardizing my privacy. I just want to know you and vice versa. How you see and experience the world is something I vitally want to understand and forge a mutual beneficial bond with. I think you know why from my previous posts: Socios are here, so am I and my loved ones. I'm a lover, not a fighter, unless someone really pisses me off or my family's existence is at stake. (I do sign a hell of a lot of environmental/political petitions but that's not much of a punch.)
I will give you access to both hemispheres, but I think you'd enjoy my 'right' hemisphere more. Bearing in mind that I'm left-handed. )
Our core symbiotic beliefs, as I understand them coming from polar opposites, if merged with no expectation other than to have fun and grow, can only rock us both along the path of evolution.
More later. My eyes are fluctuating in the matrix again.
Mr. Hyde
" I “see” you as you truly are, Mr. Hyde, and that has made all the difference in my relating so fully to your traits and desires (i.e., good and bad/light and dark, that is). In essence, you can “see” me as well, and knowing my true self . . ."
Delete:D So glad you like my hugs and 'get' me. In truth, though, I would add that one doesn't need to be 'bad' to be outed by normals. Being weird or different in any way, i.e., eccentric, is generally frowned on at best.
I stare at comets for as long as they are visible on my horizon, given local spacetime conditions, I.e., latitude and longitude. In fact, it would not be an exaggeration to say that I am a metaphysical geocosmic observer. )
I am goo goo over Iris. The line "When everything is like a movie" sparked a memory of a diary entry at age 17? "I'm living in a cartoon reality . . . walking outside the lines." Or something to that effect. I recall feeling like so much of society was fake in the sense that it was orchestrated. Those forces of conformity, material goals, did not align with my spiritual-sensual quest. So I ran away to the woods for 13 years. Missed a lot of culture, TV, movies, music, etc. but it was worth it.
I really like your taste in music, Parnasse.
Mr. Hyde
Mr. Hyde
“I'm listening to it right now.
DeleteI am goo goo over Iris. The line "When everything is like a movie" sparked a memory of a diary entry at age 17? "I'm living in a cartoon reality . . . walking outside the lines." Or something to that effect. I recall feeling like so much of society was fake in the sense that it was orchestrated. Those forces of conformity, material goals, did not align with my spiritual-sensual quest. So I ran away to the woods for 13 years. Missed a lot of culture, TV, movies, music, etc. but it was worth it.”
Goo goo over Iris? It is a song with an elevated, intense crescendo toward its climax, which gives me a natural high. Since you are a cosmos/stars enthusiast, and there is a telescope in it, I believe that you would like the official music video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdYWuo9OFAw
I have always been a non-conformist in real life, Mr. Hyde. Walking outside the lines is something my being NEEDS, and that includes being creative on a daily and nightly basis. It is analogous to breathing, and I would not feel like myself without it. Society has always felt fake to me, and this has been my reason for equating or placing my connection to you within Zion. There is no room or desire for conformity and material goals when embarking on, and continuing the course of, a spiritual-sensual quest. I, too, ran away for a while, but, as you have clinched, it was worth it for reasons that most people would not quite twig or discern. I am so glad that you do, though, and know that I like diary entries. I will share some of my own entries during our incoming exchanges. Most of them are still in my “noodle,” though.
“I feel you and accept your dark side. You feel authentic, a true seeker. All seekers have a dark side and must face it. :D”
I want to fully explore my dark side with you, knowing that you will be authentic about yours as well. I see that in you, finding it abundant and vastly attractive. ;)
“May I ask what device??”
I was not clear about my idea in reference to the device. I wish there were one, though. My thoughts were exploring metacognitive spheres and corners, and it was just an imaginative visualization that came to mind.
“Rules: No gaming or hacking. I don't want anything from you but what you are willing to share and expect the same. I won't ask you ID factors but we will tell each other real stuff, our perceptions and some experiences, dreams, etc. What else is there? ;)”
I am in full concord with you. Pact. :)
“I will tell you 'everything' I can without jeopardizing my privacy. I just want to know you and vice versa. How you see and experience the world is something I vitally want to understand and forge a mutual beneficial bond with. I think you know why from my previous posts: Socios are here, so am I and my loved ones. I'm a lover, not a fighter, unless someone really pisses me off or my family's existence is at stake. (I do sign a hell of a lot of environmental/political petitions but that's not much of a punch.)”
The word "vitally" had a marked impact on my right hemisphere. ;) I thought you might want to know this particular detail, Mr. Hyde. This is what I have been doing with you so far, being real in this quest, and wanting to form a mutual/beneficial bond. What’s more, I understand your reactions when feeling vexed or angered, since I respond in similar ways.
“I will give you access to both hemispheres, but I think you'd enjoy my 'right' hemisphere more. Bearing in mind that I'm left-handed. )”
These are good details to know, Mr. Hyde, and having access is electrifying. Yes, I am attracted to your right hemisphere, but your left is also an area of interest. Did you know that left-handers “tend to exhibit more varied, unpredictable and diffuse cerebral activity than right-handers?” ;)
Have you tried to see whether you are ambidextrous? Although not equally well, I can use both of my hands. ;)
Delete“Our core symbiotic beliefs, as I understand them coming from polar opposites, if merged with no expectation other than to have fun and grow, can only rock us both along the path of evolution.”
Perfect. Our present modi operandi center on the same wavelength, which means that we will be aiming for the same modus operandi all along the path of rousing evolution. :)
Adding to Last Night:
DeleteI stare at comets for as long as they are visible on my horizon, given local spacetime conditions, I.e., latitude and longitude. In fact, it would not be an exaggeration to say that I am a metaphysical geocosmic observer. )
A metaphysical geocosmic observer? I always maximize the volume at 3:41 when taking in, fully absorbing and savoring the instinctual essence of this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEReWa6V1zA. You should try it, Mr. Hyde [i.e., max it ;)]. So elevated, penetrating, profusely infused and on top of the world.
“Meta-consciousness is a pet peeve of mine. Always on the list of things to do.”
Being a metaphysical geocosmic observer to the point of exaggeration sounds as though the arena of meta-consciousness is more than a pet peeve of yours. Am I right in thinking so, Mr. Hyde? Meta-consciousness is an area that candidly interests me (i.e., on a level as no other state of being), and I am wondering if we agree on the pull of its heights and linking depths?
“:D So glad you like my hugs and 'get' me. In truth, though, I would add that one doesn't need to be 'bad' to be outed by normals. Being weird or different in any way, i.e., eccentric, is generally frowned on at best.”
Yes, “normals” will always fear the unknown, the wild, and the abundantly deviant, Mr. Hyde. I feel content to see that you understand me so well. You and I have forged something original in Zion, and society will always seek to out us. I “get” you and your hairy hugs, feeling as though I am looking in a mirror that beckons, pulls (i.e., the instinctive or visceral force of it is wild to the core), and seeks more answers. This is a crystal-clear “first” in my life. On yet another level, I find myself exploring the breadth of the "calling" unknown with you, which continues to fill it with fascinating and hairy-hugging-discoveries. ;)
How “bad” would you be in the wilderness, Mr. Hyde? What would be an incident that you would partake in?
The artist/performer goes even more wild in this other recording of his particular song, Mr. Hyde: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42ha7Zm0wYc
DeleteMorning Parnasse. " Have you acted on any one of the secrets that you were told, Mr. Hyde?" Oh yes: I wrote stories for one. Horror stories mostly. And I guess you could say that I also began during that time to consciously accept that part of me is part. beast. As for my 'bad' side acting out in the wilderness, in fact it's the opposite. I hated killing animals but did so for food. I did some things that some people might consider rather savage: I used to love running naked on mountain trails, drinking from rivers like an animal, howling at the moon. At the same time, I was always ready to die, get ripped to shreds by a bear or whatever. I got no problem with that,i.e., being eaten by critters, for some reason. Just hope it's quick, as I know a woman who got horribly mauled and the pain she suffered is not something I'd relish.
DeleteMy bad self comes out mostly in reckless attempts to rescue or confront. I'm such an stupid ass when I get mad; bullies and gangsters bring out the charging bull in me. I'm lucky to be here. I suppose it looks hilarious to them because they usually appear shocked. Example:
Bully: I'm gonna make you fucking bleed!
Me (rolls up sleeves to expose and hold out arms) "Come drink asshole. Come on and choke on my blood. I fucking dare ya, ya stupid goof." (Where I live calling someone a rat or a goof are fighting words; it's a matter of maintaining 'street cred.')
My dark side comes out mostly in the city, in the following ways:
A spontaneously bloody, irreverent sense of humor, which has gotten me in deep shit from time to time as a counselor. I'm now convinced that my dark humor is actually a defense mechanism: If I can laugh at the horror I detach and escape not becoming overwhelmed.
Dark fiction. I strive to sublimate my rage and pain and find writing dark tales the most effective way vent and grow through it, to 'live' it without actually doing anything that'll land me in jail. I think my pride probably holds me back, too; I don't want to be a violent, destructive person. My anger about certain things feels like a genie in a bottle about to explode; I have to actively vent it in a very controlled fashion, otherwise . . . there will be hell to pay.
I'm also thinking of getting a punching bag. ;) Should the end-times come to pass in my lifetime, however, you can bet I'll take out anybody that threatens me, my family, etc. I used to have this absolute repugnance at the very thought of hurting someone, but I've changed. It's still very repugnant, but I know that I could do it under the right circumstances and would not be haunted forever by corrosive guilt.
"This is a crystal-clear “first” in my life."
Me, too. In every way possible. The irony of this, at this particular juncture of my life, is also very apparent to my wolf pack; they cannot believe that I've escaped one batch of psychopaths at work to go on to exploring SW and now, into this relationship with you, a self-proclaimed socio. I tried to explain the bond I feel with you as a 'seeker' but they just don't get it. Oh well. I'm too old to care if they get it or not. I kinda view us, you and me, as creatures tasting each other with a metaphysical proboscis, gathering juice for our mutual growth, transformation.
I admit to being fascinated with you, Parnasse. You're quite exotic, which I really like.
Back to the dark story I'm writing. Will try to come back later today but can't promise, as the hungry pack may not give me a chance. My hairy hugs are in high demand around here. ;)
I am immersing into, and especially attracted to, your part-beast part, Mr. Hyde.
Delete“I did some things that some people might consider rather savage: I used to love running naked on mountain trails, drinking from rivers like an animal, howling at the moon. At the same time, I was always ready to die, get ripped to shreds by a bear or whatever.”
I am visualizing your thoughts at the moment, and after they make their way into my “noodle,” (i.e., my right side, that is) I will write more. I see that you are writing a dark story. I would like to know it in the dark, seeing no lights at all. ;)
{...your part-best side, Mr. Hyde....}
DeleteI derive lots of pleasure from writing dark fantasy stories, Mr. Hyde. My imagination finds its course to the darkest corners of my mind, interlacing and winding each word until I reach my crux. I wish that I could share my thoughts about these stories with you, but I cannot do that here. I believe that you would like the subject-matter. ;)
DeleteWell, since I cannot share what I truly desire at this time, I can tell you a story about a strange incident that occurred in my life. During a trip to France, I visited a castle in the mountains. It was a guided tour, which meant that I had to take a bus in order to reach the castle at the top of the cliff. The tour was great, and I liked what I saw, but, unfortunately, I missed the last bus that was supposed to take me back to the bottom of the mountain. I spent some time writing and sketching in one of the chambers and lost track of time.
Nevertheless, I left the castle. It was getting dark out as my body arched over the balustrade, and my eyes traced the snaking, long trail leading to the bottom of the mountain.
It was about an hour-long walk in the DARK. There were all sorts of sounds surrounding me (i.e., mostly birds, that is), and the leaves were crunching underneath my feet. I had the gleaming moon above my head and a souvenir in my right hand. It was a sword from the gift shop (i.e., a duplicate model that I liked).
What would you have done if you were with me, Mr. Hyde?
Linking to prior thoughts:
Delete“Bully: I'm gonna make you fucking bleed!
Me (rolls up sleeves to expose and hold out arms) "Come drink asshole. Come on and choke on my blood. I fucking dare ya, ya stupid goof." (Where I live calling someone a rat or a goof are fighting words; it's a matter of maintaining 'street cred.')”
And what ensued afterward? Is it what my imagination tells me, Mr. Hyde?
“A spontaneously bloody, irreverent sense of humor, which has gotten me in deep shit from time to time as a counselor. I'm now convinced that my dark humor is actually a defense mechanism: If I can laugh at the horror I detach and escape not becoming overwhelmed.”
I like your raw, dark humor. It suits you so well, and your interest in dark fiction writing is something that I would like to explore in all of its intensity.
“Dark fiction. I strive to sublimate my rage and pain and find writing dark tales the most effective way vent and grow through it, to 'live' it without actually doing anything that'll land me in jail. I think my pride probably holds me back, too; I don't want to be a violent, destructive person. My anger about certain things feels like a genie in a bottle about to explode; I have to actively vent it in a very controlled fashion, otherwise . . . there will be hell to pay."
I understand your propensities in this area or arena, as I like to call it. I can relate in some ways. Come to think of it, is there a real or specific violent occurrence in your life that you can tell me about?
"I'm also thinking of getting a punching bag. ;) Should the end-times come to pass in my lifetime, however, you can bet I'll take out anybody that threatens me, my family, etc. I used to have this absolute repugnance at the very thought of hurting someone, but I've changed. It's still very repugnant, but I know that I could do it under the right circumstances and would not be haunted forever by corrosive guilt."
I am picturing these details at the moment, Mr. Hyde. I am in a "visual" state of mind at the present time. ;)
“Me, too. In every way possible. The irony of this, at this particular juncture of my life, is also very apparent to my wolf pack; they cannot believe that I've escaped one batch of psychopaths at work to go on to exploring SW and now, into this relationship with you, a self-proclaimed socio. I tried to explain the bond I feel with you as a 'seeker' but they just don't get it. Oh well. I'm too old to care if they get it or not. I kinda view us, you and me, as creatures tasting each other with a metaphysical proboscis, gathering juice for our mutual growth, transformation.”
I really want our relationship to grow, knowing that we have a one-of-a-kind bond. True, we are creatures that taste each other, the juice of our inner growth filling the spaces that contain so much thirst.
“I admit to being fascinated with you, Parnasse. You're quite exotic, which I really like.”
Thank you, Mr. Hyde. Your unusual, beastly-part and its natural wilderness brings my inner seeker to the outer surface.
“Back to the dark story I'm writing. Will try to come back later today but can't promise, as the hungry pack may not give me a chance. My hairy hugs are in high demand around here.”
Envisaging your hairy hugs… ;)
Walking in the dark with you, I would have likely done little than listen to you and/or tell you a story to pass the time. Being in the dark alone versus being with others brings out different aspects of my nature. When I am alone in the dark woods I open up my pores and let the sensations of the forest enter my being. I want nothing more than to 'feel' and connect with the spirit of the woods; this approach, which is a form of surrender to the 'merging' with the wild soul of life, has served me very well in all arenas.
DeleteYes, I've been 'stung' a few times by being so receptive (to humans), but because my goals are non-material and spiritual, I seem to survive and grow. Nature does not frighten me because I've accepted her wisdom is greater than mine, and I trust that invisible 'heart of all things'.
However, some people do frighten me; but fear or pain engenders two things in me: anger and/or indifference. If anger predominates, I take action, usually verbal and/or via other legal channels; usually I simply cut that person out of my life and move on. Obviously, I do that to protect myself from further harm. But I am also well aware from past experience that the person I reject often pines for me long afterwards, and sometimes derive satisfaction from that. That's narcissistic and vengeful, which is why I make an effort to not indulge in that feeling; it's healthier for me to let go and move on. The only 'winning' I care about is keeping myself whole on a spiritual level. (Mind you, I do take pleasure in legally pinning some, but not all, assholes to the wall.) I have a high degree of tolerance and generally put up with a lot, because I see, or think I see, the suffering underneath the harmful behavior and have sympathy for that (which is probably why so many ex-lovers and friends want me back, but maybe not. Maybe they just thirst for more of my sweet blood. :D In any case, when a certain line is crossed I'm done. Even my cat, BB, whom I would die for, knows he can only bite so hard.
How do you react when you get stung?
Have you ever pined for someone you lost?
Mr. Hyde
"And what ensued afterward? Is it what my imagination tells me, Mr. Hyde?"
DeleteNine times out of ten they are amused/confused and back off. Dark humor (Come on and choke on my blood) and the often unusual way I confront these jerks throws them for a loop.
For example, many years ago and beautiful friend of mine and me went to a small town for a holiday. We went to a bar and there met two men, both Vietnam vets. My friend wanted to buy mushrooms and these men said they had some at their cabin fives miles from town. One of the men creeped me out; I told my friend, This guy is dangerous. But, being a free spirit, she would not listen and insisted on going alone with these men, so, of course, I had to accompany her. As soon as we arrived at their cabin, the creep got the baggie of shrooms and threw them in my face, said, "Make the tea." Then, "You know, we could do anything we want out there. There's no one else around." His friend gave an evil laugh. Or something equally threatening; I can't remember his exact words, but it was clear to me and my friend that we were in trouble. Anyway, can you guess how I reacted? Knowing me thus far, I am curious to see if you guess right.
I will give you a hint: the 'method' (which I had not yet read at that point) is in Carlos Castenada's book series, The Teachings of Don Juan. It was an instinctive reaction on my part and I'm grateful that it worked. Afterwards, the guys drove us back to town. On the way, the creep starting talking about his problems with women . . . my friend replied, "Women are just people with bumps." She meant they are just like men, but with curves.
Mr. Hyde
How would you have reacted, Parnasse?
"I like your raw, dark humor. It suits you so well, and your interest in dark fiction writing is something that I would like to explore in all of its intensity."
DeleteAn idea for a story we could work on together is forming in my mind that I think might be work out and be a 'first'. Allow me to stew a bit more on it: it would involve both of us digging into our own minds to find the 'flip side', the hidden polar opposite of our natural inclinations. I'm am thinking of delicious twist on 'good and bad,' dark and light. As I said earlier, I am now behind my writing schedule and finishing my own stories is top priority. As well, I must tell you frankly that I've had awful experiences with sharing my ideas with other writers. A former close friend of ten years, whose initials are ironically SW, ripped me off and made a million bucks. So figuring out how to collaborate is important to me. Can I trust that if we wrote something together we would both receive credit and equally benefit? I hope you won't be insulted by this question: after all, you are a socio and I am not. And once bitten, and so on. Know this: I want to explore writing a dark piece with you; I think it would be interesting and fun. If the story turned out well, I would want to try to get it published under a pen name we both agreed upon.
"I really want our relationship to grow, knowing that we have a one-of-a-kind bond. True, we are creatures that taste each other, the juice of our inner growth filling the spaces that contain so much thirst."
I do feel the intensity of your thirst, Parnasse. ;) And you 'feel' my thirst, too. Do we thirst for the same kind of symbiosis? I am gambling with you because I really want to understand you and build bridges: the world has grown too small for anything else. Do you think that's true?
I don't mind feeding you if you'll feed me, too. My requirements in diet are honest goods, i.e., butter versus margarine. Is that to your taste?
Mr. Hyde
"Being a metaphysical geocosmic observer to the point of exaggeration sounds as though the arena of meta-consciousness is more than a pet peeve of yours. Am I right in thinking so, Mr. Hyde? Meta-consciousness is an area that candidly interests me (i.e., on a level as no other state of being), and I am wondering if we agree on the pull of its heights and linking depths?"
DeleteYes, Parnasse. Meta-consciousness is very much a passion of mine. I clearly remember when I first realized a conscious detachment from my ego, entering an 'observer' part of my mind that was simultaneously seeing the circumstances and actions of others around me, and the pitiable interactions of my own wounded teenage ego at work with my friends. It was shocking seeing how false, frail and insecure my thought processes appeared; it was also very liberating and mind-blowing. And though I have often stumbled from that peak, I have never looked backwards: I always try to observe my ego/thought processes (especially dopamine driven ones) first and foremost. Sometimes I succeed, sometimes not. Always I'm aware on some level that if I can't see my own subterranean devils, I am certainly blind to those hidden in the minds of others. ;) It's a hoary work in progress. The peak-times soar to heaven. To the stars. :)
Speaking of lofty goals, how goes the exciting project you've been working on? When will it be done? Is it a dark tale? :D
The arena that brings my inner seeker to the surface while immersing into the midcourse of the woods feels both familiar and unknown to me. I am aware of the contradiction in terms, but it is the “calling” that imparts this duality into my senses. On one hand, the familiar feels like déjà vu or déjà vécu, the difference being that it is not an erroneous familiarity. For instance, my barefooted state “knows” the soil underneath my feet, my fervent breath tastes the musky air that surrounds me, and the hard and creviced tree bark invites me to seek below its surface. On the other hand, the unknown enfolds me in the form of a cyclical wind or strong breeze, summoning and inviting until I crave some more. I can smell and taste it, because it works so well with the chemistry of my body and the spiritual underpinning that I seek to uncover.
Delete"Yes, I've been 'stung' a few times by being so receptive (to humans), but because my goals are non-material and spiritual, I seem to survive and grow. Nature does not frighten me because I've accepted her wisdom is greater than mine, and I trust that invisible 'heart of all things'."
The invisible “heart of all things,” Mr. Hyde. That is what I trust, too. Nature does not frighten; it “speaks” my language, and that is relieving.
“How do you react when you get stung?”
It is not easy to put my reaction into words, Mr. Hyde. However, here are some thoughts, bearing in mind and revealing that I am the shape or figure in the lines below.
To Answer Your Question (Title)
The nightly storm is falling in the mist
seeming to uplift all rooftops.
“Jean Grey,” I am standing against the wind
that sweeps over my town.
Mind channeling through eyes.
I see a shadow passing by
the light beneath my window.
A cape forms another shape or figure
I call “The Other.”
It swiftly moves toward my door (mind).
A force seems to deafen me.
My hands and arms feel so much stronger,
And they grip
the narrow windowsill.
A candle burns inside my room.
I wish for light, light
My bare face is in the wind.
I hear knocking at my door (mind)!
It is the force of it surging now, and I will “surface” soon….
But I need to choose whether to speak or not. However, if I do….
the gates and shattering windows of “hell” might be unloosed.
The door opens slowly now….
A current passes through the room.
But soon enough, things accelerate so quickly….
I am on the fast-track:
The-candle-falls,
the-curtains-swing,
the-faces-painted-on-the-walls
seem-to-stare-back,
while-covering-their-darkening-heads
and-their-voices-join-the-revolution
that-forms-a-morbid-carnival
inside-my-throbbing-heart.
Rising higher now!
I touch the coarse cape,
feeling a wooden surface.
It is the hour of the cursed scorn….
But, what has taken over me?
A shape, a force
whose cape has hidden a wooden book
that emanated a great mist,
a shattering laughter,
and gave light
to mere pictures on the walls?
The pages turn,
the letters mix,
while I face it and incorporate
into nature’s powerful cycle.
I will write more soon, Mr. Hyde.
“Have you ever pined for someone you lost?”
DeletePined? Yes, I have felt longing, Mr. Hyde.
"Nine times out of ten they are amused/confused and back off. Dark humor (Come on and choke on my blood) and the often unusual way I confront these jerks throws them for a loop.
I see. Then, my imagination was in tune with your dark humor last night, Mr. Hyde.
“I will give you a hint: the 'method' (which I had not yet read at that point) is in Carlos Castenada's book series, The Teachings of Don Juan. It was an instinctive reaction on my part and I'm grateful that it worked. Afterwards, the guys drove us back to town. On the way, the creep starting talking about his problems with women . . . my friend replied, "Women are just people with bumps." She meant they are just like men, but with curves.
"How would you have reacted, Parnasse?”
I would have used a personal method that could be a novel called “A Living Jean Grey: The Psychonaut and Cataclysm of the Mind.” BOOM! It would have been back to town in no time, Mr. Hyde (i.e., safe and unscathed). Likewise, it would have been an instinctive reaction on my part, which would have surely worked. I would like to give you more details, but I cannot do that here, Mr. Hyde. ;)
“An idea for a story we could work on together is forming in my mind that I think might be work out and be a 'first'. Allow me to stew a bit more on it: it would involve both of us digging into our own minds to find the 'flip side', the hidden polar opposite of our natural inclinations. I'm am thinking of delicious twist on 'good and bad,' dark and light?”
DeleteWhile I genuinely like your idea for creating a story together, I just want to understand exactly what you mean to achieve. What would be an example of a polar opposite of one of your natural inclinations? What would mark the flip side, and can you share a brief sampler with me?
Finding a safe way to collaborate is important to me as well. You can surely trust that if we join forces on a story together, we would both receive credit and benefit in equal measure. It would be great to complete and publish it under a pen name. The idea immensely excites me, Mr. Hyde!
“I do feel the intensity of your thirst, Parnasse. ;) And you 'feel' my thirst, too. Do we thirst for the same kind of symbiosis? I am gambling with you because I really want to understand you and build bridges: the world has grown too small for anything else. Do you think that's true?”
It is true, and thirsting for the same type of synergy with you is quite alive in me. Understanding you well and building bridges is on my mind as well. The thirst within me has been growing to greater levels with each passing day.
“I don't mind feeding you if you'll feed me, too. My requirements in diet are honest goods, i.e., butter versus margarine. Is that to your taste?”
I want to feed you, Mr. Hyde. Butter is in tune with my taste. You do believe that I am being honest, right? After all, I want you to know who I am. :)
I chose to transmit some thoughts to you in an artistic form (i.e., the lines about a dual way of being or “feeling”), because I find it easier to express some details about myself on that level. I suppose that as Mr. Hyde, or in being Mr. Hyde, you can understand that rather well, culminating in a more thorough or even insightful manner than others would be able to reach when getting to know me. I used some imagery that I drew up as an artist, coupled with the Jean Grey idea, in order to convey or portray a “feeling” or that dwells within me. You asked about being stung, and that thought sprung to mind. Surely, I can choose to do whatever I want with it, being aware of the fact that it can be both light and dark. It sounds as though a certain, uncommon duality reigns within you, too, and I can see and “observe” that in some of the points and imagery that you have been creating in your posts. I am glad that you mentioned the hidden polarity or duality of inclinations that you are experiencing, which fortified my overall impression of you thus far. This is what makes us highly similar, discovering “authentic” (i.e., with great emphasis) sides that I have never seen or clearly perceived in another before. The authentic part of it is of upmost importance to me, and you seem to be able to understand yourself on a level that coincides with mine. My prose and poetry styles are rather different, finding it easier to express some feelings in an artistic mode. Of course, I can verbally communicate them, but my artistic side supersedes in certain instances.
Delete“Yes, Parnasse. Meta-consciousness is very much a passion of mine. I clearly remember when I first realized a conscious detachment from my ego, entering an 'observer' part of my mind that was simultaneously seeing the circumstances and actions of others around me, and the pitiable interactions of my own wounded teenage ego at work with my friends. It was shocking seeing how false, frail and insecure my thought processes appeared; it was also very liberating and mind-blowing. And though I have often stumbled from that peak, I have never looked backwards: I always try to observe my ego/thought processes (especially dopamine driven ones) first and foremost. Sometimes I succeed, sometimes not.”
The liberating and mind-blowing aspect of it is something that I can patently observe in you, and I like it. You sound genuinely and uninhibitedly passionate, which is a large part of my attraction to you. There is the unabashed expression if it, coupled with a conviction that denotes strength and perseverance. These are great qualities to have, stemming from a place that has “seen” a lot. Likewise, I do not look backward or engage in regressive thinking, and discovering myself through meta-consciousness has constructed a journey that continues to appeal.
“Always I'm aware on some level that if I can't see my own subterranean devils, I am certainly blind to those hidden in the minds of others. ;) It's a hoary work in progress. The peak-times soar to heaven. To the stars. :)”
A work in progress is best rooted in awareness, allowing the “subterranean devils” into a place of outer recognition or full acknowledgement. Peak-times rise like the tide, turning, prickling and springing into a swelling deluge. The rays of energy glint within such spaces, akin to the radiance of natural, flaming stars. ;)
“Speaking of lofty goals, how goes the exciting project you've been working on? When will it be done? Is it a dark tale? :D”
My project is a soaring goal, Mr. Hyde, and I have been forging ahead and making progress. The large and intricate plot, involving many twists and turns, has both light and dark in it. I am working with a timeline/deadline for the manuscript. I was thinking a bit earlier that had we known each other in real time, I would have liked you to read the complete manuscript, and to give me your opinion of my writing/fully developed ideas, before submitting it to the publisher. Would you have given me your forthright opinion of it, Mr. Hyde? :)
Parnasse,
DeleteYou disarm me. Being disarmed is so enchanting. :D
So many books, so little time -- the story of my life. Had we know each other in real time at an earlier date, before you had time to submit it, I would have given your manuscript my utmost attention, Parnasse. Gladly and with hairy-armed hugs. I.e., with fond forthrightness. What else matters, eh? ;)
I wish you luck and hope you will share it with me at some point.
I need to noodle around, brood a while. You've given me a generous plate of sumptuous food for thought.
I'm a tad drunk. Computer troubles make me crave first wine, then wine and dinner. Now coffee. Then a documentary to round off my musings. And if I'm still awake, I will come back and post. Your clarion howl does chime. ;)
Back when I can.
I believe you. And in you. :)
Mr. Hyde
Playing Iris, Parnasse. The crescendo is steaming. So I had to add:
DeleteI would have used a personal method that could be a novel called “A Living Jean Grey: The Psychonaut and Cataclysm of the Mind.” BOOM! It would have been back to town in no time, Mr. Hyde (i.e., safe and unscathed). Likewise, it would have been an instinctive reaction on my part, which would have surely worked. I would like to give you more details, but I cannot do that here, Mr. Hyde. ;)"
I don't know who Jean Grey is, but I think I grasp the boom! You do have that resounding effect. :D
I love the word Psychonaut. Hopefully, I don't sound too egotistic, but it really does remind me of my own, half written novel. The Transmortalist.
As a psychonaut, where are you headed?
Mr. Hyde
“I don't know who Jean Grey is, but I think I grasp the boom! You do have that resounding effect. :D”
DeleteThe boom? I was referring to Jean Grey or Jean Grey-Summers from the book published by Marvel.
"I love the word Psychonaut. Hopefully, I don't sound too egotistic, but it really does remind me of my own, half written novel. The Transmortalist."
I really like to see that you love writing. What do you have planned for the next chapter of it?
"As a psychonaut, where are you headed?"
I like exploring the secrets of alchemy. I am using “The Domestic Alchemist” by Pip Waller as a worthwhile guide. :)
“So many books, so little time -- the story of my life. Had we know each other in real time at an earlier date, before you had time to submit it, I would have given your manuscript my utmost attention, Parnasse. Gladly and with hairy-armed hugs. I.e., with fond forthrightness. What else matters, eh? ;)”
Thank you, Mr. Hyde. And mentioning your hair-armed hugs has given me an idea for something that I have been meaning to tell you. I will expand on this thought tomorrow. ;)
"I wish you luck and hope you will share it with me at some point."
I will share it with you, and, come to think of it, you will know so much more about me at that point in time. Thank you for believing me, as well as for believing in me.
"I used some imagery that I drew up as an artist . . . in order to convey or portray a “feeling”
DeleteAbsolutely. I want and expect nothing less from a fellow psychonaut. It's important to me that you make your art; if my musings provide you inspiration I am well pleased and served. I love being a muse!
In the case of my former writer friend, however, it was not just my inspiration he took; he stole my ideas and even fully written scenes from my novel-in-progress that I had metaphysically sweated out over the course of a lifetime. He dumbed them down, created a character based on my person (a psychic investigator for the FBI who also channels deceased great artists), a character so bereft of my dark side, so goody-goody, that I could barely finish the book without throwing up. I'm not sure I can explain how greatly this whole episode impacted me, but I can tell you that when I then found out about his having stolen the crux of another work, a short story and had sold that, too, I was angry beyond reasoning. I remember going back over the entire 10 year relationship with new eyes. I thought I knew this pathetic suck (Oh if only I could come up with an original idea! If only editors would give me chance! I'll do anything!) and tolerated it because I thought he was rather kind and sweet. Seeing how stupid I was to trust someone who's mindlessly ambitious and obsessed with fame and fortune is now my cross to bear, not his. The only good news has been artistic validation of my ideas: he sold four books all based on my novel and two reached the NYT bestseller list. So I am naturally now very hesitant to share anything that's going on with my beloved TM (transmortalist). Other reasons having nothing to do with you or anyone prohibit me from saying more right now.
One day we will connect in this way, I'm sure. I would love your feedback and know that your comments would make me a better writer.
My idea for OUR story is still brewing, Parnasse. But I can tell that Fight Club and Dr. J and Mr. Hyde comprise the crux of it on its more raw level. What I mean by a delicious twist is that in the stories mentioned above, you've got one person who is split into two aspects. These aspects are very black and white. Dr J is good, Mr. Hyde is bad. But what if dr J discovered that within his good side there lurks a very real badness to his good intentions and acts? What if his good intentions/acts are the real problem? I know as an empath that if I catch my 'good self' acting to 'help' others, often I don't help them at all . . . I realize that my 'good intentions' are not what this person needs. Sometimes it's even worse: I'm giving them WHAT I THINK they need. Who the hell do I think I am? (Goo Goo Dolls, Sympathy)
Conversely, what if Mr. Hyde discovered that his violence or hatred had a silver lining, that all the evil stuff he committed actually had a positive effect? I'm finagling here, as I'm sure you know.
But I think the idea of two people, one dark, one light, say getting to know each other over the internet in an attempt to understand the opposite end of the spectrum, and who then discover new aspects of their inner polar opposite in surprising ways.
Like I said, the ideas I have are at the germ stage. If you don't find this idea engaging, no worries. We'll find something to work on, I'm sure. I just thought how much fun it would be for me to write Dr.J's character, and you Hyde's. I know the ugly side of my goodness pretty well, and I think I could bring a lot dark irony and topsy-turvy emotions to the good doctor's character.
The prose poem you wrote above is beautiful and highly evocative, Parnasse. I may not always be clear about what exactly you mean, but the 'feeling' as you've wrought it through imagery is very palpable. Sometimes while reading your artistic posts I forget entirely that you are a socio. :D Your writing is chock-full of slippery depths and true longing.
Mr. Hyde
"I used some imagery that I drew up as an artist . . . in order to convey or portray a “feeling”
Delete“Absolutely. I want and expect nothing less from a fellow psychonaut.”
I find it highly relieving, gripping and real to communicate with you in THIS/most desirable way, namely Psychonaut to Psychonaut. ;)
I can thoroughly understand the anger that you’ve experienced due to your former friend’s actions. What’s more, your artistry, unflinching passion and inner vision will always belong to you. No one can ever take that away from you. I strongly believe it.
“One day we will connect in this way, I'm sure.”
It is my “explicit” desire to connect in this way.
“My idea for OUR story is still brewing, Parnasse. But I can tell that Fight Club and Dr. J and Mr. Hyde comprise the crux of it on its more raw level.”
“Fight Club” is one of my favorite novels and movies. It appeals so much that I have placed it at the top of my list. Within that spinning web, Dr. J and Mr. Hyde would work quite well with the fabric of our story’s raw level.
“What I mean by a delicious twist is that in the stories mentioned above, you've got one person who is split into two aspects. These aspects are very black and white. Dr J is good, Mr. Hyde is bad. But what if dr J discovered that within his good side there lurks a very real badness to his good intentions and acts? What if his good intentions/acts are the real problem? I know as an empath that if I catch my 'good self' acting to 'help' others, often I don't help them at all . . . I realize that my 'good intentions' are not what this person needs. Sometimes it's even worse: I'm giving them WHAT I THINK they need. Who the hell do I think I am? (Goo Goo Dolls, Sympathy)”
I have given this some thought, and I can cognize, "twig" and "hum" your perspective in these thoughts, grasping the basis of your study and analysis.
“Conversely, what if Mr. Hyde discovered that his violence or hatred had a silver lining, that all the evil stuff he committed actually had a positive effect? I'm finagling here, as I'm sure you know.”
I like it when you engage in finagling, making sharp and incisive discoveries that draw me in even further. Unearthing these ideas and behaviors by collaborating on a story together is fantastically desirable.
“Like I said, the ideas I have are at the germ stage. If you don't find this idea engaging, no worries. We'll find something to work on, I'm sure. I just thought how much fun it would be for me to write Dr.J's character, and you Hyde's. I know the ugly side of my goodness pretty well, and I think I could bring a lot dark irony and topsy-turvy emotions to the good doctor's character.”
Yes, I like our placements in the web of Fight Club-Dr. J.-and-Mr. Hyde. You write one and I compose the other, advancing and catapulting it strongly from the “germ stage.” :)
“The prose poem you wrote above is beautiful and highly evocative, Parnasse. I may not always be clear about what exactly you mean, but the 'feeling' as you've wrought it through imagery is very palpable. Sometimes while reading your artistic posts I forget entirely that you are a socio. :D Your writing is chock-full of slippery depths and true longing.”
Thank you, and I am glad that you believe in me. ;)
Do you have a favorite “Fight Club” scene that you could incorporate into your composition? I am referring to propelling the nascent and/or primordial pluck of it.
“I may not always be clear about what exactly you mean, but the 'feeling' as you've wrought it through imagery is very palpable. Sometimes while reading your artistic posts I forget entirely that you are a socio. :D Your writing is chock-full of slippery depths and true longing.”
DeleteI am not sure whether I understand this part of your post. My artistic posts stem from authenticity. Why did you think of a disconnect between the two?
"Why did you think of a disconnect between the two?"
DeleteBecause of the emotive power, Parnasse. Whilst that comes through to me in a 'cool' way in your general communications, your poems pulse literally with heart. A dark heart but a human heart nonetheless. I think the moving depths you express in your poems will impregnate the "Hyde" character with a truly wondrous glow.
Many writers I know, especially of sci-fi, fantasy, crime thriller and horror writers, find it difficult to create a multi-dimensional villain. (Course, in all fairness, bad guys have been done to death. ;) It's as if some writers can only imagine narrow, usually predictable, details of the 'evil one' before they're rushing off to focus on the hero. To my way of thinking, the villain in the story is always most important and must be deeply unique, because it's the villain's qualities and goals that greatly define the hero's quest and struggles. (In a heroic tale, that is.)
Mr. Hyde
"I find it highly relieving, gripping and real to communicate with you in THIS/most desirable way, namely Psychonaut to Psychonaut. ;)
DeleteGlad to hear it. :D Psychohauts suits us both very well. It's a term I relate to instantly.
"Unearthing these ideas and behaviors by collaborating on a story together is fantastically desirable." It's very enticing and exciting. Something new and different that will challenge on many levels. I think we got a good shot at creating something uniquely provocative. I also think that writing it would be a pioneering act on both our parts, a journey of self-discovery as well as one of collaboration. I don't know about you, but one reason I love writing is because of the surprising discoveries of the deeper self one makes in the process of working through draft after draft. Many times during rewrites I've found a deeper, more rounded and alluring tale. Is that also true for you?
"Do you have a favorite “Fight Club” scene that you could incorporate into your composition? I am referring to propelling the nascent and/or primordial pluck of it."
I have not yet brooded enough on our story to say. I'm deep into another tale right now and need to intensely focus on it and another (fucking legal)document if I'm going meet my deadlines before the holidays. :/
"Thank you, and I am glad that you believe in me. ;)"
It would be impossible for me not to believe in you. Your creative power cannot be ignored. Nor your ability to see and express beauty.
Mr. Hyde
PS There was something you wanted to share with today . . . ????
The words that inhabit, infuse and colonize my poems are both instinctive and formulated, Mr. Hyde. I think (i.e., rather thoroughly) and write uninhibitedly at the same time, operating on two levels. I rise with an impassioned pulse, purposefully letting it drain me as though it were true blood. Ultimately, it is a bilateral composition, elicited by both my conscious and subconscious spheres. Rising and colliding at the same time, unafraid of either carefree or dark forces at play. It awakens and stirs.
Delete“I think the moving depths you express in your poems will impregnate the "Hyde" character with a truly wondrous glow.”
Your phrasing at this point has really grabbed me by my thinking fingers. A writer’s highly expressive creation can become a marvelous progeny peppered with incisive ink and mind-gripping, darkening lore. And there could be a glow, too. I like it. Your lingual dexterity and/or patois works. It’s crafty. ;)
We definitely see eye to see on the importance of the villain in a story. Come to think of it, I created the villain in my book before all of the other characters. I derive so much satisfaction from writing the villain, as well as from navigating and/or maneuvering his mind throughout the plot. I believe that knowing my villain would enlarge your understanding of my own ways. As for other novels, true, the bad ones have been done to the point of cadaver-state or extinction, but, as a writer, there is so much pleasure throughout the course of it. ;) However, there was evolution after the era of dinosaurs, its multi-dimensionality of species having morphed and tangled so vastly.
What would be the first thought that pops into your mind for a deeply unique villain that you are envisioning at the moment?
I relate to psychohaut rather innately, Mr. Hyde. There is defining stature in it, having a certain thump and atypical plough to it, too.
DeleteI am drawn to the idea of a uniquely provocative story, our innovative natures trekking and unearthing page after page, giving breath and blood to infamous creations with nefarious streaks and appetites. In essence, they will mount the page, strike and traipse, thus making their marks all the way to victory.
“I don't know about you, but one reason I love writing is because of the surprising discoveries of the deeper self one makes in the process of working through draft after draft. Many times during rewrites I've found a deeper, more rounded and alluring tale. Is that also true for you?”
Editing and polishing a draft is a process that I have personalized over the course of time. It is quite true for me, and finding the deeper self in these re-births, as I like to call them, can be truly rewarding.
“It would be impossible for me not to believe in you. Your creative power cannot be ignored. Nor your ability to see and express beauty.”
Thank you so much. I truly see the creating force in you, too. It interlinks quite well with mine.
“PS There was something you wanted to share with today . . . ????”
Yes. Our uncommon connection has actually contributed to something that occurs in my novel. I had to decide the nature of the relationship between two important characters, and this has made an impacting difference. Also, it has affected something crucial in one dark twist of events for the villain.
Do you villain in the morning, Mr. Hyde? ;)
"I rise with an impassioned pulse, purposefully letting it drain me as though it were true blood."
DeleteThis is exactly how I experience it, too. Let it bleed! The outpouring on to the page, the transfixed surrender to inner forces, is exhilarating. I once wrote a story about a woman who becomes addicted to donating blood. Having donated a few times in New Orleans when I found myself broke after Mardi Gras when I was nineteen, I was amazed at the whoozy high and consequent weird visions giving blood engendered. Lol. You should have seen the reaction that story evoked in some of my more 'nice' friends; she was horrified and didn't answer my calls for weeks. She got over it, but refused to read any more of my tales. Like you, I cannot share my strange fantasies with just anyone.
"Your phrasing at this point has really grabbed me by my thinking fingers. A writer’s highly expressive creation can become a marvelous progeny peppered with incisive ink and mind-gripping, darkening lore. And there could be a glow, too. I like it. Your lingual dexterity and/or patois works. It’s crafty. ;)"
Thank you very much, Parnasse. Gripping the reader is every writer's dream. I do believe that writing may be the only way I will ever touch another being in truly significant ways.
Yesterday my claim-appointed psychologist of several months said, "I've never seen you like this. You're so animated, filled with hope and inspiration. Just watching you talk about your writing is a treat."
You have reignited my fire, Parnasse. Some day I will tell you what a stressful year 2015 was for me, and why I had to quit my job, which is turning out to be a very, very good thing. I only wish I didn't have to make a legal appeal because it takes so much time and bores me to death. I am doing so not for money or entirely for revenge, but because people are dying for no reason (i.e., a human rights issue, which I'm very passionate about). It's going to be very tricky; I am poor and cannot afford a real lawyer and the organization I worked for is rich and very powerful and my ex-boss is married to a top governmental asshole. This crap is about eat up a whole lot of my time. And since I would much rather play like a kid with my paper and ink, I get cranky just thinking about it.
Mr. Hyde
"What would be the first thought that pops into your mind for a deeply unique villain that you are envisioning at the moment?"
DeleteWhat pops up right now is the inevitable leakage between the different tightly sealed compartments of the villain's (or anyone's) mind. Intrapsychic conflicts that slip into concrete reality in surprising ways and not consciously realized until it's too late . . . ;) Generally speaking, though, it would very much depend on the type of villain.
"I am drawn to the idea of a uniquely provocative story, our innovative natures trekking and unearthing page after page, giving breath and blood to infamous creations with nefarious streaks and appetites."
Yes. I also think that by the very act of dwelling on our hidden polar opposites, we will each in our own way, unearth new gems. I am curious to 'see' the world through Dr. J's eyes because I will experience new territory; I am equally curious to read your visionary experience of Hyde because I will discover new vistas through your dynamic quest. As for a pen name, how about W.E. ---- ? lol. An empath and socio teaming up is darkly funny, don't you think? But I suppose W.E. had better not riff on M.E. without her permission: She apparently likes ruining beautiful creatures. ;))
"Our uncommon connection has actually contributed to something that occurs in my novel. I had to decide the nature of the relationship between two important characters, and this has made an impacting difference. Also, it has affected something crucial in one dark twist of events for the villain."
I am deeply flattered. Honored. And intensely curious!
Do you villain in the morning, Mr. Hyde? ;)
Mostly. My wolf pack and other stuff takes up most of my alone time.
Mr. Hyde
PS I'm again having technical troubles on this site. As well, there has been some rather startling 'media coincidences.' I don't know whether I'm being winked at or gaslighted. Lol.
DeleteAnyway, I tried answering your 'either/or' question yesterday on M.E.'s last post but it failed to materialize. To answer now that when it comes to sensorial experiences, I'm greedy. It would be very hard for me to choose and thus the choice would be somewhat arbitrary.
Oh, I almost forgot. Thank YOU so much for believing in me, too.
In terms of our growing enmeshment of literary creativity, I'm pleased to say, There Will Be Blood. Did you enjoy that movie? I did very much.
Mr. Hyde
This Stanley Kubrick interview video is a must see, Parnasse! Please use your laser lie detector and tell me what you think. I've made my intuitive-sensual decision and am curious if we come to the same conclusion.
Deletehttp://yournewswire.com/Stanley-Kubrick-confesses-to-faking-the-moon-landings/
Kubrick's extended relationship with Neil Armstrong post-Luna affair was apparently catalytic. Part 2, 11:16. From that point on, the conversation pivots from "my greatest masterpiece" to "time and distance, the human condition," to darkly comedic "golf games on the moon." Kubrick adds, "That wasn't my idea." Priceless.
Also of note is that numerous times Kubrick describes himself as 'conflicted', in relation to his artistic genius, ambition. No doubt that's true and very interesting.
Mr. Hyde
The winding blood addiction of the character in your story sounds familiar. I remember reading a screenplay about a blood addict, and some of the phrasing evoked the following reaction in me (i.e., I wrote these lines after reading it sometime ago: “I will accompany you to seas, monuments, bridges, lighthouses and hidden cottages in the timbers of time, and peck or awaken you in every dark place that I find, so that when you return to them, tasting me will be like blood in your mouth. I will tangle within you, and as I lay there, you will know why bloody, imbibing or impish storms bear the name of people.”
DeleteTrue, sharing my strange fantasies entails the need for a like-minded person, and you are that person, Mr. Hyde. They define me in the splashing waves of existence that I have given to you up to and including this moment.
“Gripping the reader is every writer's dream.”
You are a true dreamer, then. I've known it all along. ;)
“Yesterday my claim-appointed psychologist of several months said, "I've never seen you like this. You're so animated, filled with hope and inspiration. Just watching you talk about your writing is a treat."
I am envisioning this meeting, taking surreptitious glimpses of your inflections and gesticulations.
“You have reignited my fire, Parnasse…. This crap is about eat up a whole lot of my time. And since I would much rather play like a kid with my paper and ink, I get cranky just thinking about it.”
A tree house filled with paper and ink. And, of course, marked as W.E. ;)
"...bear the name[s] of people." :)
Delete“What pops up right now is the inevitable leakage between the different tightly sealed compartments of the villain's (or anyone's) mind. Intrapsychic conflicts that slip into concrete reality in surprising ways and not consciously realized until it's too late . . . ;) Generally speaking, though, it would very much depend on the type of villain.”
DeleteI have added your first thoughts about the villain to my earlier and certainly ongoing visualization of your inflections and gesticulations. The mind can be a limitless wonderland, scenting and breathing in the sap of linking vibrations and gestures. But, true, in that sense, it would pivot or hinge on the kind of villain. ;)
“Yes. I also think that by the very act of dwelling on our hidden polar opposites, we will each in our own way, unearth new gems. I am curious to 'see' the world through Dr. J's eyes because I will experience new territory; I am equally curious to read your visionary experience of Hyde because I will discover new vistas through your dynamic quest. As for a pen name, how about W.E. ---- ? lol. An empath and socio teaming up is darkly funny, don't you think? But I suppose W.E. had better not riff on M.E. without her permission: She apparently likes ruining beautiful creatures. ;))”
Unearthing and encountering new vistas through our dynamic quest is a vision that has been infusing and sousing inside my absorbing mind. W.E. is a most fitting pen name, Mr. Hyde. It’s great to share one vision.
“I am deeply flattered. Honored. And intensely curious!”
I would like you to know more about this…so much more. ;)
“Mostly. My wolf pack and other stuff takes up most of my alone time.”
Yes, I know what you mean....
I need to give some pondering to your other two posts, and will write more later, Mr. Hyde. :)
Delete"A tree house filled with paper and ink. And, of course, marked as W.E. ;)"
DeletePurring beastie boy swings on tree rope. ;)
“I will accompany you to seas, monuments, bridges, lighthouses and hidden cottages in the timbers of time, and peck or awaken you in every dark place that I find, so that when you return to them, tasting me will be like blood in your mouth. I will tangle within you, and as I lay there, you will know why bloody, imbibing or impish storms bear the name of people.”
Entanglement is a property of quantum mechanics, Parnasse. Spooky action at a distance is yet another psychonautical constant. I like it. :)
"It’s great to share one vision."
Indeed. The farther WE will see.
I'm hope you agree that W.E.'s short story must include blood. That's all I meant in regards to There Will Be Blood. (Love that title.)
I hear the howling pack approaching. Music of my days and nights.
Mr. Hyde
“Purring beastie boy swings on tree rope.”
DeleteTree rope? I see that purring beastie boy speaks of entanglement, forming protracted, wildly lingering images in my mind.
“Entanglement is a property of quantum mechanics, Parnasse. Spooky action at a distance is yet another psychonautical constant. I like it. :)”
And so it continues in all of its eerie splendor and form.
“Purring beastie boy swings on tree rope.”
Tree rope? I see that purring beastie boy speaks of entanglement, forming protracted, lingering images in my mind. I feel their sharpness and tuneful grasp. And it tingles. ;)
“I'm hope you agree that W.E.'s short story must include blood. That's all I meant in regards to There Will Be Blood. (Love that title.)”
Yes, I love that title, too. Blood must surely be included, flowing ever so fervently in W.E.’s veins.
“I hear the howling pack approaching. Music of my days and nights.”
Do you hear each tinge, swell and treble in that mind-filling music…every single drop and incandescent streak of blood? ;)
In case you’re wondering, I used the repetitive or double entendre in my post to convey its far-reaching impact.
DeleteAnd I liked it.
My thoughts from earlier post: In case you’re wondering, I used the repetitive or double entendre in my post to convey its far-reaching impact.
DeleteIn order to clarify, I used the words double entendre to connote a duality of expression, sensation or reaction as opposed to duplicitous. This is an important distinction to take into account at this point in time, Mr. Hyde.
“PS I'm again having technical troubles on this site. As well, there has been some rather startling 'media coincidences.' I don't know whether I'm being winked at or gaslighted. Lol.”
I do not believe that you are being gaslighted, and some things are mere coincidences. Understanding this point is important. :)
“Anyway, I tried answering your 'either/or' question yesterday on M.E.'s last post but it failed to materialize. To answer now that when it comes to sensorial experiences, I'm greedy. It would be very hard for me to choose and thus the choice would be somewhat arbitrary.”
I can surely grasp the essence of your take on this particular question, finding it equally difficult to choose one over the other. I cherish the breadth and impact of sensorial experiences. Being “greedy” in this aspect of it is understandable, reaching a level that I treasure as much as the air that I breathe.
“Oh, I almost forgot. Thank YOU so much for believing in me, too.”
I do. I believe in you, Mr. Hyde.
“In terms of our growing enmeshment of literary creativity, I'm pleased to say, There Will Be Blood. Did you enjoy that movie? I did very much.”
The movie draws a worthwhile distinction between realism and show. It explores the inner threads of human consciousness as the camera reveals a world full of complexities. The title is attention-grabbing, and the scenes demonstrate the pervading presence of a keen eye that sees both spectacle and pragmatism. Do you see the movie as a consummate work of art, and is there one main, leading trait that you like in Plainview’s character?
“Kubrick's extended relationship with Neil Armstrong post-Luna affair was apparently catalytic. Part 2, 11:16. From that point on, the conversation pivots from "my greatest masterpiece" to "time and distance, the human condition," to darkly comedic "golf games on the moon." Kubrick adds, "That wasn't my idea." Priceless.”
DeleteI am glad that you have shared Stanley Kubrick’s interview video with me. My intuitive-sensual conclusion is the same as yours. Based on the details of the interview, the ensuing catalysis of the relationship is something that the two seem to share. Taking the whole conversation into consideration, I still see his achievement as a great and distinguishing magnum opus.
“Also of note is that numerous times Kubrick describes himself as 'conflicted', in relation to his artistic genius, ambition. No doubt that's true and very interesting.”
Kubrick’s artistry was bold, intricate and intense. He was not afraid to take risks, taking his art to levels that reached within the epicenter of human consciousness. I truly do not think that he should have felt conflicted at all. Truth be told, he created in a striking, clever and impressive style.
"Do you hear each tinge, swell and treble in that mind-filling music…every single drop and incandescent streak of blood? ;)"
DeleteI believe I do. The 'bloody mattress' incident concerning my mom's suicide imprinted itself on my mind, causing an acute sensitivity. Like her death, seeing that stain two years later was momentous, forever altering me in ways I cannot explain. I consider it a catalytic event and have considered that sensitivity in terms of my enjoyment of this site.
"as opposed to duplicitous"
Thank you for making that clear and addressing my concerns about gaslighting. If I seem a tad paranoid at times it's because I've been through a lot this past year with other socios from my workplace. The company also hired a PI who followed me around for weeks, in an attempt to discredit my very expensive injury, which I found very creepy. It's hard for me to explain the whole dastardly, ongoing affair but I know your fecund imagination can fill in all the blanks.
I haven't watched There Will Be Blood for so long I can't remember the details of Plainview's MO very plainly. I do recall thinking it's a masterpiece.
Same with Kubrick's Luna landing. It's beyond impressive! But in point of fact I was more concerned if you thought he was telling the truth or not.
A young pack member woke up is calling and needs cuddles and food. Duty calls.
Back later. :)
Mr. Hyde
“I believe I do. The 'bloody mattress' incident concerning my mom's suicide imprinted itself on my mind, causing an acute sensitivity. Like her death, seeing that stain two years later was momentous, forever altering me in ways I cannot explain. I consider it a catalytic event and have considered that sensitivity in terms of my enjoyment of this site.”
DeleteI believe that certain, formidable incidents in our lives can exclusively mark us for life, the imprint being there and having a unique or inimitable place of its own. I can relate to your thoughts and the profound effect of the ensuing alteration, which truly reminds me of causal incidents and manifestations having to do with the death of my father. I do not talk about them with others, but I feel as though I can share this and other pivotal reflections with you. While we cannot explain some things, the catalytic tour de force or bloody opus is surely there, its sharp sensitivity marking an acute point of pleasure.
“Thank you for making that clear and addressing my concerns about gaslighting. If I seem a tad paranoid at times it's because I've been through a lot this past year with other socios from my workplace. The company also hired a PI who followed me around for weeks, in an attempt to discredit my very expensive injury, which I found very creepy. It's hard for me to explain the whole dastardly, ongoing affair but I know your fecund imagination can fill in all the blanks.”
My imagination can fill those blank places, grasping the difficulty in explaining something so stirring. Considering everything that you have been through this past year, addressing your concerns is essential. I am quite open to it.
“I haven't watched There Will Be Blood for so long I can't remember the details of Plainview's MO very plainly. I do recall thinking it's a masterpiece.
Same with Kubrick's Luna landing. It's beyond impressive! But in point of fact I was more concerned if you thought he was telling the truth or not.”
Yes, Kubrick’s Luna landing and “There Will Be Blood” transcend the limits of mere impressiveness. Both of them are magna opera, or the defining works of a lifetime. Just as there is deep-seated truth in “There Will Be Blood,” there is liberal truth in Kubrick’s Luna landing confession. I forthrightly believe in both instances.
Speaking of addressing concerns, I mentioned Elektra in an earlier post, and after the fact (i.e., this happens quite frequently with me), I thought that you might have seen it as a reference to the theme of revenge in it. I would not blame you, since it is the ostensibly or outwardly visible construct of the piece. Penetrating the surface of things is a preoccupation of mine. Having said that, the external theme is not what attracts me to it, and making that distinction has been on my mind. Before I expand on these rooted reflections, what do you see, or, more specifically, where do you see my fascination with it, Mr. Hyde?
Due to its epitome, my pulsating epicenter was on the stirring edge of my seat during the whole, astounding performance.
"I believe that certain, formidable incidents in our lives can exclusively mark us for life, the imprint being there and having a unique or inimitable place of its own."
DeleteThis marks the 'wee' tree of our paper and ink playhouse, a pivotal point of communion and understanding.
I can relate to your thoughts and the profound effect of the ensuing alteration, which truly reminds me of causal incidents and manifestations having to do with the death of my father.
"There Will Be Blood." "it's epitome" with Elektra.
I do not talk about them with others, but I feel as though I can share this and other pivotal reflections with you. While we cannot explain some things, the catalytic tour de force or bloody opus is surely there, its sharp sensitivity marking an acute point of pleasure."
It's sharp sensitivity marks the acute pleasure of exploring taboo feelings and writing dark fiction, spitting up lava, bleeding on to the page. :))
"My imagination can fill those blank places, grasping the difficulty in explaining something so stirring. Considering everything that you have been through this past year, addressing your concerns is essential. I am quite open to it."
Thank you so much for understanding my circumstances, Parnasse. One way or another W.E. shall write our opus. Hang with me a while as I juggle several balls and hopefully by mid-January I'll be ready to rock on our story. I have thought of a couple tiny details that might be fun to explore. ;)
But right now it's back to the rowdy wolf pack.
Mr. Hyde
"
“This marks the 'wee' tree of our paper and ink playhouse, a pivotal point of communion and understanding.”
DeleteThe deep-rooted tree has been inscribed with W.E., permeating the paper and ink playhouse through the manifestation of our words. What hue or shade of ink do you prefer? I believe that I would like to write with tree sap, creating through its natural properties.
I woke up this morning with the “bloody mattress” incident on my mind, and would like to ask if your memories concerning it are intact or fragmented? Also, do you ever visualize some of the thoughts that you have been posting for me?
“It's sharp sensitivity marks the acute pleasure of exploring taboo feelings and writing dark fiction, spitting up lava, bleeding on to the page. :))”
I can see it.... The erupting volcano, heatedly bleeding the marrow of taboo feelings and intertwining them within the growing skin or condensed husk of dark fiction. Magma.
“Thank you so much for understanding my circumstances, Parnasse. One way or another W.E. shall write our opus. Hang with me a while as I juggle several balls and hopefully by mid-January I'll be ready to rock on our story. I have thought of a couple tiny details that might be fun to explore. ;)”
It sounds like a developing design with a vision for W.E., going forward to the point where we will rock our story. I like it, summoning in-motion ideas for it inside my twisted noodle. What are the tiny details that you would like to explore, Mr. Hyde? ;)
Linking to Earlier This Morning:
DeleteA Chronicling, Entangling Compilation of and for W.E. (poem/art in motion)
Eccentric planets, an extended orbit and a blazing, soldering comet soaring ever so highly. Change is needed, and the sleeper must awaken. Fully.
This marks the 'wee' tree of our paper and ink playhouse, a pivotal point of communion and understanding.
When my mind is free to wander, I soar wherever the wind takes me: I am the suns of Orion, the rings of Saturn. I am pulsars and cosmic rays, the ticking of eternity. My veins surge with particles of vanquished light. It tickles!
Hairy hugs? Well, that’s yet another first for me. Yes, I like it. I am sending you some “first” hugs as well, Mr. Hyde.
Yes, I love that title, too. Blood must surely be included, flowing ever so fervently in W.E.’s veins.
Yes, the “Aha!” moment. It all makes sense now, Mr. Hyde, and I naturally like this song.
“I just want you to know who I am.” I suppose that some of the lyrics in the song “Iris” by the Goo Goo Dolls (i.e., I heard it this morning while waking up from yet another dream) bring some truth into the filaments of my own metacognition.
I like delving into maverick realms of enchantment.
Rising from the depths of being,
From eye to eye the sea doth gleam.
Sleepless spirit bubble bright,
Breach the surface, taking flight.
Oh morning star, born of night!
I would most confidently write “I want you to know who I am” on the highest top of my work of art.
Forget your searching in vain
across those lunatic moors
under a thundering sky.
rays from this fiery coppice
will always “fount” to rise
as long as you roam about that door -
constantly knocking,
and fitting a twin soul.
Penetration and vulnerability go knife in hand.
"There Will Be Blood." "it's epitome" with Elektra.
I am the fornicator of taboo,
lighting the cerulean fires anew.
Your words are rushing forth like a clasping tune that brings "the familiar" out of me. This is a "first" for me.
I believe that you know so, just as I can naturally recognize some intrinsic things about you.
DeleteBut as I turned around to turn on a lamp, I heard and felt a type of movement emerging from the same armchair.
So even though I'm a bit scared to pluck one from the seabed, I do, and when I hold the creature up to the sun it opens its human mouth and begins to tell me secrets.
My books have somehow swapped titles: instead of "Dante's Inferno" it reads "Inverted Dominos" and other nonsense. I glance at the mirror on the wall and see a strange sight: the back of someone's head.
Purring beastie boy swings on tree rope.
Spoon: an instrument chiefly used for the purpose of refueling the body and soul in the scheme of things.
The 'bloody mattress' incident concerning my mom's suicide imprinted itself on my mind, causing an acute sensitivity. Like her death, seeing that stain two years later was momentous, forever altering me in ways I cannot explain. I consider it a catalytic event….
First autumn afternoon
the hand mirror I see
shows your face.
Fayn and Lofty/Grip HAVE to evolve and work in symbiosis, or All is lost!
No one travels
along this path but you and I,
this autumn afternoon.
I am the genius of my blood's desire,
brooding into the future.
Will you come?
It finally tastes a reply
from a kindling, kindred voice, wanting it there.
constantly knocking at this soul -
willing, intense, so prone and bare.
a bare soul in all its splendor.
Do you hear each tinge, swell and treble in that mind -filling music…every single drop and incandescent streak of blood?
After moaning in her sleep, the surface of the earth remembers and rewards her dreamer most generously: June will arrive.
Have you ever seen the Swedish movie, "Let the Right One In"? The tenderness that builds between the two lonely children, their evolving trust and desire to fulfill each other's needs, touched me.
I have thought of a couple tiny details that might be fun to explore. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0txgXdGW5s
"The deep-rooted tree has been inscribed with W.E., permeating the paper and ink playhouse through the manifestation of our words. What hue or shade of ink do you prefer? I believe that I would like to write with tree sap, creating through its natural properties."
DeleteAu natural is fitting juice. Color of honey, ambergris and chamomile tea. With lots of honey. ;)
"Just as there is deep-seated truth in “There Will Be Blood,” there is liberal truth in Kubrick’s Luna landing confession. I forthrightly believe in both instances."
Me, too. If Kubrick is lying, it's because he truly believes it to be true. Shocked the heal outta me: I recall seeing the Luna affair on TV at an impressible age. The other side that intrigued me was that what choice other than making the film Nasa/the government, could he really make? After NASA has stated to him "in no uncertain terms, what else could he do?"
Another thing comes to mind: If you commit fraud as a means to exposing deceptions in authority figures imbued with public trust, why the hell not? :D
The lengths to which some people in positions of power will go to label and thus exploit is truly astonishing. Ugliness at its more prolific. I hate it.
But let me end for now on a more positive note, Parnasse.
W.E. are on the path, loving it and don't give a damn what they think. Because we are willing to bleed and willingly embrace the blood of "Other" in all its glory.
Later. Soon.
Mr. Hyde
"I woke up this morning with the “bloody mattress” incident on my mind, and would like to ask if your memories concerning it are intact or fragmented? Also, do you ever visualize some of the thoughts that you have been posting for me?'
DeleteThere are many holes in the mattress of my memory, but the images and actions I described before are intact. I have a very visual, quirky mind when it comes to traumatic events, not as absolute truth, but as how I visually saw and remember it. Perhaps that's due to the "varied" approach, regarding the 'sinister' handed, as you so aptly noted. :D
Koan: What hand washes the Other? Answer, The sinister, unused and acknowledged.
We comprise an odd and sizzling pair of waves and particles, Parnasse.
I like it. :)
Out for a bit to brood. :))
Mr. Hyde
"Eccentric planets, an extended orbit and a blazing, soldering comet soaring ever so highly. Change is needed, and the sleeper must awaken."
DeleteMust awaken to the eccentric orbits of life on earth as well as beyond it, eh? :)
We are so in tune, Parnasse.
As for the rest of the content of your posts, I wish to drink them in before saying more. Your intuitive-sensual questing-blending of our empath/socio exchanges is a potion I would savor for a song or two.
Bloody-haired Hugs. ;)
Mr. Hyde
"I can see it.... The erupting volcano, heatedly bleeding the marrow of taboo feelings and intertwining them within the growing skin or condensed husk of dark fiction. Magma."
DeleteIt's a literal dream of mine. One I've had before, populated by only one Other, TM.
And you are most obviously in it as of October. In the heart of midnight sun's volcano.
Mr. Hyde
“W.E. are on the path, loving it and don't give a damn what they think. Because we are willing to bleed and willingly embrace the blood of "Other" in all its glory.
Delete…And you are most obviously in it as of October. In the heart of midnight sun's volcano.”
As my thoughs dwell deeper into this, W.E. are a bold eruption of blood, spirit and passion. Whenever we are opened and come forth, we are of the deepest red. W.E. rise and become the midnight sun and moon of our dreams.
I am loving it, too. Through and through, Mr. Hyde. ;)
As my thoughts... :)
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVqPx5mUj0g (From "Drink the Sea")
“We are so in tune, Parnasse.”
DeleteBeing in tune with your bloody-haired hugs, I am presently thinking of “Koan: What hand washes the Other? Answer, The sinister, unused and acknowledged.”
Reply to Answer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNk9cbJqtjs (From: “Bloody-Haired Hugs” – Tosca, Suzuki)
“We comprise an odd and sizzling pair of waves and particles, Parnasse.”
What have the particles bestowed upon the waves tonight, Mr. Hyde? ;)
The particles have left blood in my mouth. You know who's. We are the unused and unacknowledged.
DeleteBut not to each other. :))
I am happy. Dreaming of things to come.
Mr. Hyde
Yes. The blood of the waves is still smeared onto my lips. Once inside my mouth, it tasted like....
DeleteWell, only to each other, as it is “the way” of the bloody particles and waves.
I am happy, too. What dreams may come. ;)
“Au natural is fitting juice. Color of honey, ambergris and chamomile tea. With lots of honey. ;)”
DeleteAs an impassioned writer/artist with an inborn hunger for the creative elixir and novelty that such craft elicits from my core, au naturel is a language that I intrinsically understand. The colors and textures that your appetite craves infuse and blend into a composition that deviates quite attractively from the norm. I like it, Mr. Hyde. In this sense, fertile is the palate I gift to you, openly hugging the rustle and hiss of our relationship and expanding its fruitfulness. When the sting of a scorching “ray” rears its head, you and I dive right back into its honey.
“Me, too. If Kubrick is lying, it's because he truly believes it to be true. Shocked the heal outta me: I recall seeing the Luna affair on TV at an impressible age. The other side that intrigued me was that what choice other than making the film Nasa/the government, could he really make? After NASA has stated to him "in no uncertain terms, what else could he do?"
I do not believe that he lied, since, if you look closely, it was his beloved “art,” and vice versa, that enabled him to tell the truth. That must have happened on the inside “first.” I speak with unabashed emphasis in this sense, Mr. Hyde, preserving the thought that Kubrick’s act was open, unsealed and noble. To recall your expression as a comparison in this case, “Au naturel is fitting juice, right?” ;)
“The lengths to which some people in positions of power will go to label and thus exploit is truly astonishing. Ugliness at its more prolific. I hate it.”
I know so, too. Teeming.
“Must awaken to the eccentric orbits of life on earth as well as beyond it, eh? :)”
Did you have a telling dream this past night, Mr. Hyde?
No dreams last night . . . You?
DeleteI see your point about Kubrick's relationship to his art being on the inside 'first.' I hadn't thought of that but you are right -- artists define themselves and everything else in their lives through their art. I was convinced of his truthfulness by watching his face; he looked genuinely haunted and I sensed both his artistic pride of accomplishment and his drowning alcoholic regret. I was curious to see how you would use your talents to 'read' him, wondering if we'd come to the same conclusion via different routes.
"In this sense, fertile is the palate I gift to you, openly hugging the rustle and hiss of our relationship and expanding its fruitfulness. When the sting of a scorching “ray” rears its head, you and I dive right back into its honey."
Thank you for the gift, Parnasse. And you are right: We both are driven on some core level to explore the psychonautical depths. (Scorpio trait) I feel like you are someone who uniquely understands and enjoys this quality in me. This constitutes a very real 'first' for me. ;)
About W.E.'s story. In both Fight Club and in Dr. J and Mr. H, there is only one person, inhabited by two personalities. I'm wondering whether it would be interesting to construct a narrative in which two possibilities exist simultaneously: a) both personalities inhabit one body, b) two separate people who get so psychologically entangled that they began to 'bleed' into each other's lives.
This would be very challenging to write but I think it could be done, especially if we frame the story within the context of a . . . blog. Say Dr. J is a psychologist who attracts to his/her blog a fan, i.e., Hyde. Lol.
I'm finagling again. :D Give it some thought and tell me what you think.
I'm also curious to know if you have a sexual preference for the characters. Do you see H as male or female? I'm kind of leaning toward Dr. J as a woman. What do you think?
As for negative, repeating dreams this past year: A co-worker chasing me around the workplace with a knife. And zombie dreams, where I'm running for my life to avoid being devoured. I think these dreams perfectly reflect the traumas I've experienced past year. Way I look at it, it's all bloody grist for the mill.
I have a feeling my dreams are about to get very interesting and revitalized. You do spark my brain in very unusual ways. ;)
How goes the novel? I'm so excited for you! And very excited to read it one day.
Mr. Hyde
Part 1:
Delete“I see your point about Kubrick's relationship to his art being on the inside 'first.' I hadn't thought of that but you are right -- artists define themselves and everything else in their lives through their art. I was convinced of his truthfulness by watching his face; he looked genuinely haunted and I sensed both his artistic pride of accomplishment and his drowning alcoholic regret. I was curious to see how you would use your talents to 'read' him, wondering if we'd come to the same conclusion via different routes.”
It is a channel of artistic definition, but, at the same time, it is not a conscious style or course of eliciting that which has hatched and fledged within from the beginning of all possible memories. It is an unusually striking subconscious urge, which can be filtered by conscious thoughts. Candidly stated, this process can have either a positive or a negative effect, and as you have also noticed, Kubrick demonstrates both of these states quite well. In other words, it calls, perforates and consumes if one is not true to it. It is rapturous and tempestuous (i.e., both “ecstasy and agony”).
“Thank you for the gift, Parnasse. And you are right: We both are driven on some core level to explore the psychonautical depths. (Scorpio trait) I feel like you are someone who uniquely understands and enjoys this quality in me. This constitutes a very real 'first' for me.”
I do. ;) Another reason for my "skyscraping" attraction to this quality marks our one-of-a-kind point of similarity when it comes to it. Truthfully stated, it is a very real “first” for me as well. The psychographic and psychonautical nadirs of it instill a soaring craving for trekking and discovering. It marks the sting of all stings.
Although related only in name, what would be your # 1 song by the Scorpions if you were to choose one? Which song really calls out to you, including this unique quality that I understand and experience in you.
I will continue soon….
The agony and ecstasy
Deletesoaring and discovering,
reveling in the
sting of beauty
W.E. sing.
Trekking through deep snow
W.E. know everything's
made to be broken.
I only want you
to know who I am. ;)
Off to listen to the Scorpions and dive into the fiery lake.
Later.
Mr. Hyde
“About W.E.'s story. In both Fight Club and in Dr. J and Mr. H, there is only one person, inhabited by two personalities. I'm wondering whether it would be interesting to construct a narrative in which two possibilities exist simultaneously: a) both personalities inhabit one body, b) two separate people who get so psychologically entangled that they began to 'bleed' into each other's lives.”
DeleteThe idea you have put forth attracts in its complexity. Two personalities inhabiting one body and bleeding into each other’s lives marks an original course for W.E. I like the combination, as well as its bleeding or bloody flavor. I am quite eager to taste this flavor through the design and development of W.E. It must feel alive, imbued with taste, scent, sound and that other “sense” which is primarily unique to us. ;) In this world, the two personalities would morph and thrust into each other’s inner depths and mind channels.
“This would be very challenging to write but I think it could be done, especially if we frame the story within the context of a . . . blog. Say Dr. J is a psychologist who attracts to his/her blog a fan, i.e., Hyde. Lol.”
I have an idea as well. Since they would morph into and share one body, the two personalities would also share one brain. So, and this is where it becomes a bit complex and peculiar, they would be able to hear each other’s thoughts, urges and perceptions within the construct of this one, single brain. What would they think of it, and how would they handle it? I am asking this specific question because of the actions that must be taken by two personalities sharing one brain/body on a daily or nightly basis. How will that occur, and what would be those consequences? Will the actions of Dr. J or H manifest or materialize, and what would be their “internal dialogue” as a result of it? “Which” actions would spring or unleash to life? Would it feel like “possession,” fun, ingenuity, sharing of all types of “appetites” as one body (i.e., with each other), unusual bonding, stinging, or all of the above? Could this be their path to a greater state, or to an increasingly original way of co-existing and bleeding life and fervor into each other?
What do you think of this idea or questions, Mr. Hyde?
“I'm also curious to know if you have a sexual preference for the characters. Do you see H as male or female? I'm kind of leaning toward Dr. J as a woman. What do you think?”
I would have to choose male for H. Considering all of the angles and implications, it would be a riveting experience to see how the action breeds and immerses within each filament.
“As for negative, repeating dreams this past year: A co-worker chasing me around the workplace with a knife. And zombie dreams, where I'm running for my life to avoid being devoured. I think these dreams perfectly reflect the traumas I've experienced past year. Way I look at it, it's all bloody grist for the mill.”
Dreams? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmhpUjIlPY8
Nose twitch. ;)
“I have a feeling my dreams are about to get very interesting and revitalized. You do spark my brain in very unusual ways. ;)”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t92iZ9mqCg
“How goes the novel? I'm so excited for you! And very excited to read it one day.”
I have been working on the manuscript, furthering the plot that I created for it. I did it on and off, that is, over a period of a few years. I would say a couple of years, but it was a bit more than that, and now, it is all about the writing and pouring into a world that I know from its beginning and all the way to its end. When I say end, I am referring only to the first novel, since I have planned it to expand into a linking series.
This makes my pulse smile, and, if you see it “twice,” there is a certain bloody bite or sting to it, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmhpUjIlPY8
Did you “double slither” into that, Mr. Hyde? ;)
The Sociopath has to try to understand that as irrational and ridiculous as the empath's emotions might appear to be, they are as real as objective fact for the empath. This is a good starting point from which to work.
ReplyDeleteI will pop back in due course in case you wish for clarification / elucidation or simply to challenge.
Stuart (Non-Anonymous)
I agree with you completely, Stuart. Throughout many years of working in sales I've learned that perception is reality. The people that think they get the best deals are usually the people I make the most money off of.
DeleteHowever, my fiancée has expressed to me that I overlook how certain things make her feel especially when I find them to be irrational. I will keep this in mind moving forward.
Hi Stuart and Robbie,
ReplyDeleteIt may help to consider that most behaviour is driven and watched over by the lowest, most ancient parts of the brain - the reptilian brain / brainstem.
Rationalisation is post-facto.
Emotions colour the experiences we have of surviving/thriving - which perhaps is a reason for the sociopaths greater clarity in this regard. Emotions help the empath population to normalise, which does make them easier to manipulate (as a salesman, you may well be aware of 'nudging' and other techniques from social economics)
So yes! Emotions flavour all experiences, even imaginative ones (perception *is* real and the brain doesn't distinguish easily between the real and the imagined which is why immersive mental imagery is such a powerful rehearsal technique for sports performances).
Moral systems and moral philosophy has always puzzled me - it always reads as dry to me, not close enough to the real state of affairs. And it's for this reason: empaths are NOT 'moral' creatures any more than sociopaths; 'morality' is a model of behaviour based on some flawed premises (hooray for science) to explain why we do act altruistically sometimes. But the answer is glaringly obvious: we act altruistically because it benefits the individual's survival to cooperate within it's own community and thus the constellation of features supporting this behaviour have been consistently selected. Just as in other animal populations.
None of us are rational beings, but our brains are statistical machines that create patterns (learn) based on experience quantity and quality - with emotion being a powerful mechanism for encoding quality under the watchful direction of the brainstem.
*Robby
DeleteSorry! I'm on my phone and attention to detail is not my strongest trait.
North
DeleteI thought that an excellent contribution and agree.
And most importantly from my perspective you don't just toss emotion away as some irrational absurdity. There is a reason for it.
And you are dead right, empaths are NOT 'moral' creatures any more than sociopaths.
Actions speak the loudest and we empaths are great at the "feelz" but that doesn't equate to moral action. Sadly.
In fact, as we know, there is an odd paradoxical flip-side to the empath which is strangely "unfeeling" when it comes to action.
The best comment of all:
"None of us are rational beings"
Absolutely. The worst position of all is to suppose that we exist in a rational vacuum, impervious to any form of bias of irrationality. This goes for both the sociopath and empath.
There's common ground & solid relationships that can be built with the frank acknowledgement of these simple truths.
Stuart,
DeleteYes! Well, not in my experience, but it's an interesting exercise finding this common ground because it sheds a sharper light on our human condition.
Has it worked in your experience? Do you have examples that illustrate exploration of common ground?
Yes, the comments I'm writing are from personal lived experience. I won't elaborate further than that.
DeleteI didn't marry someone I would characterize as an empath. He is very tough-minded and logical. But frankly, I cannot love him in the way that he deserves. I have tried, and failed. Every. Single. Time.
ReplyDeleteI do not feel guilt or shame when I lie or manipulate. I have proved unable or unwilling to completely to sheath my claws with him. But we accept each other unconditionally. This acceptance is something I *can* give him without being disingenuous, and so far- it has been enough.
A relationship where one or both parties is being disingenuous - this includes empaths who allow themselves to be diminished, or (I imagine) sociopaths quelling themselves to a degree in which it becomes an overhead - can only be painful.
DeleteBut then all marriages face this issue.
My GP once said to me that all relationships feature a degree of co-dependency. I hope not.
As I change, I find my father's narcissism is easier to accept because I don't expect what I won't receive and I work around his lack of ability to handle criticism. Perhaps a sociopath would be easier to deal with. after a while, one would learn the techniques etc I did this with a colleague. So then you can proceed with acceptance - which, by the way, I would probably never make unconditional. If we're no longer working toward the same project and life is painful, why would I stay? The condition is mutual value and pleasure.
We have both done numerous things that should have caused us to walk away from each other, many times. We both value the trait of forgiveness very highly.
DeleteWe decided long ago that divorce would not be an option. We're happy together, and with our decision. It works for us. To each their own.
*Shrugs*.
^That should have read "we both value the *act* of forgiveness very highly"
DeleteA
Delete"accept each other unconditionally"
"We both value the act of forgiveness very highly."
And there is the heartbeat of love right there.
And with this even the seemingly improbable relationship between the sociopath and the empath can not only work, but positively thrive.
Great points, A. The part in your comment about acceptance in such a relationship as yours is especially illuminating for your reader. :)
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete'Truth' is what works ~ William James
ReplyDeleteTo each their own, indeed. No need to justify ourselves to anyone - but there is a lot of value in sharing narratives of experience because the stories of others can enrich our own perspective.
All the best to you :)
"A relationship where one or both parties is being disingenuous - this includes empaths who allow themselves to be diminished, or (I imagine) sociopaths quelling themselves to a degree in which it becomes an overhead - can only be painful."
ReplyDeleteYes. And you frame this in such a way as to imply that this is always negative. Sometimes it is good to embrace pain. Self-discipline and self-denial for the sake of another can promote growth in the giver and build up the receiver like nothing else. This is a truth also evident in the physical world: if you've ever really worked out or practiced a sport, you understand that pain is necessary for the building of strength and the attainment of self-mastery.
As for being disingenuous, are/were *you* always 100% forthcoming, honest and transparent in every aspect of your relationship with your significant other?
If I were to indulge all of my impulses, I would be completely faithless. In this way, I "diminish" myself. I am by "nature" bisexual and polyamorous. Is this something I should expect my husband to tolerate? Should I leave him because I am unwilling to undergo the pain of self-discipline, if my "truth" allows for my baser instincts to dictate my behavior? (After all, we're just animals... Right?)
We both have to make choices about what we value in life, and this can entail a healthy measure of self-sacrifice. We can't always have our cake and eat it too- and that's a good thing, because who the hell wants to get fat?
"But then all marriages face this issue."
That is because compromise is always required when two people become as one flesh.
"If we're no longer working toward the same project and life is painful, why would I stay? The condition is mutual value and pleasure."
Because some forms of pain are beneficial. Some things are more valuable than temporal pleasure, and shared projects require self-sacrifice.
"To each their own, indeed. No need to justify ourselves to anyone - but there is a lot of value in sharing narratives of experience because the stories of others can enrich our own perspective. "
Agreed. But why would you append a statement about our not needing to justify oneself with a justification? ;)
All the best to you :)
And to you too. I always enjoy reading your posts. You are very penetrating and insightful.
A,
DeleteThanks for your reply!
It all boils down to whether or not the project is genuinely shared. In which case, yes, some self-sacrifice and pain is beneficial because the collaborative efforts of two people are exponentially greater than the sum of individual efforts for growth. (BTW, your sports analogy is very relatable for me as a former rugby national championship winning captain; I could take the analogy in various directions... think Remi Gaillard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g45ph_J_Ebc v William Web Ellis ;) )
I like to think this is possible between a sociopath and an empath, which is why in my initial comment I suggested the OP and his fiancee learn from each other.
In my experience with my ex, there was definitely no shared project. And no matter how I tried to convince myself there could be... he broke my heart for the fun of it and thinks he's so clever he can't even notice how I've changed or doesn't want to see how things might have a different potential for him.
But then, as you ask, I did act callously against him. When I ponder your discussion of forgiveness and acceptance... the acceptance part is easy. Forgiveness I think is neither here nor there; HOWEVER it's not ok that someone intends to damage me for their pleasure. And it's not ok that I don't recognise my own boundaries, that I comply solely with someone else's agenda as THIS is disingenuous and the root of pain. That I acted against him (and similarly by cheating with him on my narcissistic ex husband) was my "soul's cry", the start of my discovery of self. But I wouldn't ask for a relationship that required such a deep burial and then revival of the self again.
So, yes, it comes back to whether or not the project is genuinely shared. For me, it wasn't and thus I let it go. If it were a shared project, I'm sure I would continue to learn from that particular person. But he wants to run the show his way and doesn't want to collaborate. There's no space for me.
Narrative is a better learning tool than justification, which is argument. Justification says "I conform to the model you hold for me"; narrative gives enough space for the other to change their model to fit your experience data. This helps us all operate in the world just a little better. Our dialogue has been such an experience for me.
Likewise, I enjoy your incisive and entertaining posts. You have a wonderful style of expression :)
Cheers!
I hear you, and understand what you mean by "shared project". I agree that this is essential. My husband and I have made a shared project of our lives, and this is what binds us together so tightly. We have become one in overarching purpose.
DeleteBreaking someone's heart for fun is not something I would ever do to my partner. Not on purpose. Not for the hell of it. I have my ways of being careful.
I have been very callous in past relationships, but I have always stopped short at toying with a person's deep emotions for sadistic pleasure. (Which is not to say that I am not a sadist... I have simply learned to sublimate my sadistic propensities in much more viscerally satisfying ways. :)
But I've used and abused past sexual partners. I have betrayed people's trust, and recklessly risked their hearts on a whim for momentary, impulsive pleasure. I am not exactly poster child for psychologically healthy relationships, and I won't pretend to be. But I have never done to anyone what you say your ex did to you.
That takes a special kind of asshole- the kind for whom I reserve my utmost contempt and derision. I have never been with that kind of man, but if I started getting those kinds of signals, I would drop him like a hot coal immediately (I am waaay too guarded to give my heart and trust easily) or, more likely, turn on him like a praying mantis, and eat him alive. I would relish destroying someone like that. The desire to seek vengeance is particularly toxic and tempting for me, so it is something I seek to attenuate in my character.
You probably don't realize it, but you are teaching me quite a bit about effective communication. I mirror everyone and incorporate into my own voice styles and methods that I find effective. Your voice fascinates me, because it is conciliatory without being weak.
I'm genuinely glad to hear your marriage works for you and takes you both to new places under a united purpose. Your post was actually quite emotive for me; I was envious.
DeleteMy revenge was of the predictable kind. I took a stack of my printed journal papers to his wife. I knew at the time, I was attempting to diminish his agency - the only intentionally callous thing I've ever really done. It stemmed from a place in me that said this is enough and honestly that was the moment I started listening to myself and changing. There was a palpable difference from that point and I don't regret it in any way. And it was my second attempt: the first time, I had told him about it and he convinced me to retrieve the documents. So it staggers me that he was so stunned when I enquired some months later - after he tried to seduce me again - about what had happened. I was simply trying to clear the air; he had thought I was trying to revel in any damage I may have caused and that was our last conversation. It was the day after I asked him if he was a sociopath: he said I could call him that if I wanted to. He was a quiet about it, like he was keeping his options open about how to handle it, and I think he decided I was quite hooked enough and it didn't matter as he kept on with the seduction. I told him I'd been too gentle with him and said I'd tie him to a chair. That was all very exciting until I mentioned the letter.
His reciprocal revenge was an attempt to get a restraining order on me. The result was mutual undertakings to the court not to contact each other. We have seen each other many times since then; we've smiled and waved at each other, he mimicked my laughter in a work meeting and invited me with his "lovestruck" expression, I left a note for him on his car, he subsequently ran away from me. In short, it's been utterly farcical. The last I saw of him was a few months ago in a shopping centre. He was excitedly speaking in French to his son. I walked past; he looked back at me.
We are on completely different wavelengths, unfortunately.
I am creating a vast and rich life for myself. There's sometimes a thought that he could still add to the tapestry I am weaving and that I could add some colour or shape to his creations. But ultimately, I think he demands too much control and there's no space for me. I don't know how to invite him to make a paradigm shift.
I can imagine you as such a praying mantis, that image made me laugh. The way you adroitly dismantle posts here! It's entertaining and clear you take pleasure in it. And it's also useful; if we can stomach it, the mirror you hold up is crystal clear. No wriggle room for excuses.
Thanks for your kind words about my voice. From the moment I understood his sociopathy, I was intensely curious and know there are endless avenues for exploration. I know that judging others precludes relationship and limits experience, so I earnestly seek out other perspectives. Openness and curiosity are traits I actively cultivate for their value in helping me develop more effective practices and tools for living.
And I took on board the advice you gave me last month concerning my career. I have made some very positive moves, and also some bumbling ones. But all in the direction I am choosing for myself. My humble thanks. I like to be pushed and challenged.
This is one of my more rambling posts... :)
So let me get this straight. Please correct me if I am wrong about any of these details. I don't have much information to go on.
DeleteI am going to be straight with you. I like you, North, but I am not going to sugar-coat my words for your emotional benefit. I don't think someone like you would want me to, anyway. Don't hesitate to do the same. I assure you, I can take anything I dish- and then some. ; )
Your ex was a married man? When you say he "toyed with your heart..." Do you mean that you fell in love with him, and became hurt, angry and resentful when it proved unreciprocated, in spite of his reassuring words and promises? I assume, then, that he professed his love for you, vowed to leave his wife, or otherwise misrepresented his intentions?
Was the basis of your relationship blistering hot sex?
A guy is going to say whatever he needs to in order to keep it coming... You know that, right?
People with sociopathic traits tend to compartmentalize things, especially love and lust. It sounds to me as though you read too much into the relationship, or misunderstood what it meant to him. Perhaps this is because you took his words at face value, when they merely constituted a manipulative device.
You should have known not to give your heart to a married man. He was wrong to mislead you, but you were foolish and naive to believe anything he said. You allowed your emotions to cloud your better judgement, and perhaps even to distort your perception of your respective expectations from the relationship. And if he made no commitments or promises, then you were fully in the wrong, which makes your jealousy-fuelled revenge even more inexcusable than your mutual infidelity. (As a participant, you bear equal moral responsibility for the adulterous relationship.)
"There was a palpable difference from that point and I don't regret it in any way. And it was my second attempt: the first time, I had told him about it and he convinced me to retrieve the documents."
Yes. You gained his grudging respect, because he could not manipulate you into doing his bidding a second time.
" So it staggers me that he was so stunned when I enquired some months later - after he tried to seduce me again - about what had happened. I was simply trying to clear the air; he had thought I was trying to revel in any damage I may have caused and that was our last conversation."
I would assume that as well. In light of your having pulled the trump card of acting like a jealous bitch by telling his wife about your tryst, it was, I daresay, rather callous of you. ;)
And yet, even after all that, he attempted to seduce you again, because the sex was illicit and hot, and lust is his weakness. What does that tell you? Is he capable of learning and growing from your shared experience? I don't think so, or he would not have so easily have slipped back into his old patterns. He didn't even bother trying to change the way he played you, let alone seek meaningful restitution, which means that he continues to underestimate and undervalue you.
You should certainly reject his advances. Do not be fooled. Don't get sucked back in. Stifle your emotions and be like iron towards him.
He is emotionally juvenile. There can be no "shared project" unless he leaves his current partner. And even if he does- if he can cheat on his wife, he can cheat on you. Unless you're willing to accept an open relationship, which would probably be the only way someone like him could be completely forthcoming and honest, you will never be able to trust him- nor should you.
I would prefer an open marriage. My physical exclusivity is a constant struggle. It appears as though he is unwilling or unable to make the sacrifices necessary for monogamy to work. If he will not give this even to his wife- what on earth made you think he would do it for you- a mere "side project"?
" It was the day after I asked him if he was a sociopath: he said I could call him that if I wanted to. He was a quiet about it, like he was keeping his options open about how to handle it, and I think he decided I was quite hooked enough and it didn't matter as he kept on with the seduction. I told him I'd been too gentle with him and said I'd tie him to a chair. That was all very exciting until I mentioned the letter."
DeleteVery clever. And right by the balls, where he is weak (lust). He had it coming.
If you play with fire, expect to get burned. :D
"His reciprocal revenge was an attempt to get a restraining order on me."
LOL!
You beat him, and this was his last ditch attempt to render a blow. Pathetic, but admittedly typical. We hate losing. :P
What a juvenile fiasco. Not surprising, considering that most sociopaths (myself included) have the emotional maturity of a teenager. That is not going to change unless he deliberately acts in a manner contrary to his nature. Even then, it will be forced, and, despite his best efforts, it will only be a matter of time before he slips back into old habits. I am all too aware of this tendency. :P
Yes, the sex was great. Sociopaths are amazing in bed. He was doubtless adventurous, bold, and experimental- allowing you feel things you had never experienced before. But do not be mistaken. Our emotions run shallow. While your heart was on the line, let me assure you- for all his pretty words- his was not. You should have known this.
Screw that. Move on. Too much water under the bridge. Mind-blowing orgasms are great, but he was using you for cheap thrills and physical gratification. A strong, intelligent woman like you deserves someone who will complete her in every way.
Thankyou A. I also like you and your piercing gaze. I think you have been quite gentle on me. I was naive in the extreme.
DeleteI was in all sorts of pain and completely in a state of learned helplessness when I met this fellow. We sat next to each other “on the bench” for almost three months before anything happened and he was obviously well aware of my marital unhappiness.
I wanted my life to explode. He wasn’t even my first choice – that’s another lesson: he who dares wins! To me, he was a pleasant distraction. He pitched his pity play to make his wife appear very similar to my husband.
It was more that I eventually trusted him – I felt safe with him. My husband and father are both very aggressive, logical, domineering alpha males; this guy was sweet and creative and very relaxed. Wonderful sense of humour. And a feeler! ISFP. For the first time in my life I didn’t feel the need to argue proof of my own existence. So I was already operating outside my strengths. Feelings? What they f are they? Well, I learnt pretty quickly. I knew he was playing, at first. It was another 6 or 8 weeks before I let myself totally relax and I did fall for him at that point. He immediately pulled back and started with the games. He did hint at things like leaving his wife and what not but I never asked him or showed any interest. I didn’t intend to carry on with him. The relationship was becoming stale.
The basis of the relationship: adventure. Distraction for me, sexual fantasy for him. But he wanted control with that fantasy – I was generally more adventurous than he was. But he had picked something out, something he tested and found me resistant to. So I guess it was a challenge for him to see if he could manipulate me into it. When he gave up on that, he called it “stalemate” and took what he could get. He only plays games he can win, so he had a backup plan (which was no loss to me and the best orgasm ever (yes, the sex was mind blowing.))
I’m quite certain, in his “logical” setup, that he wanted to keep me on the side for whenever he happened to be bored and I’m quite sure he has a number of women around the city (and world for that matter) in this particular position. This is a refined program he has running here. I am well aware of this.
But yes, I was well deceived. It was not so much the words he used; his every seduction was a masterpiece. He’s very artistic and creative. I certainly told him this. But he isn’t a strategist. No. Not at all. A schemer, and very intelligent, but not a rational thinker. Dear me, that little court drama is quite hilarious. We each thought ourselves the victor that day, both left smiling and inviting the other. It was a thrill, you know, combating that threat. Very much like this (Julien’s monologue, 1:15): https://vimeo.com/18301300 Long back story, won’t bore you with it.
Why was I so hooked / devastated if I was bored and frustrated? He did a great job of sinking those hooks in. It’s only recently I extracted them: http://www.sociopathworld.com/2015/09/more-on-neurofeedback-and-emdr.html
But the pain and craving is gone now.
A
s for my thoughts on a continued relationship… for a long time, I craved a discussion with him, wanted to share how he had woken me up from a lifetime of slumber. He conquered areas of my landscape I didn’t know existed and I have flourished since then. I had thoughts of a continued relationship; not just for the sex but also because he is fascinating, I have been fascinated by this creature and how he operates. And I thought I could learn so much. I tried a few times, as I mentioned, but we haven’t spoken since last August and he can’t possibly understand where I am. I suppose I am simply a broken – or at best unpredictable – toy to him.
So I gave up after he more or less ran away from me in the car park. I called his name and he kept walking. I called again and he shook his head. It seemed a very visceral response.
Delete“You should have known not to give your heart to a married man.”
Indeed.
“And if he made no commitments or promises, then you were fully in the wrong, which makes your jealousy-fuelled revenge even more inexcusable than your mutual infidelity. (As a participant, you bear equal moral responsibility for the adulterous relationship.)”
Okay, this is where it gets interesting. He’d been extremely callous in ending the relationship (another silly story that is unscriptable – it was like living in a movie, really) and was just toying with me after that. I was in worlds of pain. My act felt like a mix of self preservation and self recognition. Being in that place, it’s difficult to describe. I was breaking away from helplessness. As I say, a light flicked on in me that day, and has been growing in intensity since. I had been a shadow, a nothingness. A limp rag.
When I look at how my ex husband behaves, I can see the effects of his childhood trauma. I’m convinced people crash into each other in this life; we are all looking to survive. The more aware we are and the more our needs are met, the more likely we are to act in ways that support our community. I’m convinced of this, at least on the empath side of the equation. It’s easy to follow “the rules” when you are safe and well fed.
No, rules emerge when there are groups and this is a factor or our psychology. We all enter the social contract. I broke the rules and I accept the consequences. The legal system must operate on justice and not mercy. But what good does blame do in such personal affairs? What good is judgement? Better to learn to keep ourselves safe, to heal, to help others heal and to collaborate. This is why I love narrative. To add to my perspective, to resist shortcuts of labelling and quashing based on some ultimately arbitrary set of values. We do hurt each other, especially those we are intimate with. As I said, we crash into each other. I say let’s have mercy. Let’s continue in relationship if it can bring good to each party and let it go without bitterness if it cannot.
Rules applied in any other way are stifling. They are mere controls.
“I would assume that as well. In light of your having pulled the trump card of acting like a jealous bitch by telling his wife about your tryst, it was, I daresay, rather callous of you. ;)”
Honestly, this made me laugh. It wasn’t my intent at all. I mean, he is extremely sexy, but I was burning with curiosity. Not to mention anger. I’d have loved nothing more at that point than to resume with a scintillating little scenario like that but to avoid any surprises, I thought it best to raise the issue of the letter. What can I say. I was largely a too-honest person (you know, apart from the affair, lol).
“And yet, even after all that, he attempted to seduce you again, because the sex was illicit and hot, and lust is his weakness. What does that tell you? Is he capable of learning and growing from your shared experience? I don't think so, or he would not have so easily have slipped back into his old patterns. He didn't even bother trying to change the way he played you, let alone seek meaningful restitution, which means that he continues to underestimate and undervalue you.”
Yes, you are perfectly correct. And as I say, I was stunned. Imagine how surprised I was when, a few months after his restraining order attempt, he turned up to a work training session, sat behind me, handed me my coat with that “lovestruck” expression inviting me then mimicked my laughter. Now, I know why he did it and it relates to the weakness you have already commented on in a very particular way, but it was so ludicrous for him to try that route. So the farce continued. I don’t work near him at the moment. I don’t know when I might see him again as he’s left my company but I don’t think he’d bother with me as I’ve shown a distinct unwillingness to submit. So even with the promise of unfettered fantasy; I think he still craves control and just has taken a year to realize he doesn’t have it.
DeleteBut again we haven’t had a conversation so I can’t really expect much better from him. But is he capable of understanding any other possibilities? It looks unlikely but he was generally very open minded and flexible which is why he persisted.
“He is emotionally juvenile”
Yes, I think he’s like a very, very young boy emotionally speaking. He gets excited like a little child, laughs like a mischievous schoolboy and sulks at the slightest criticism (like being told he should iron his shirt at work.)
“You beat him, and this was his last ditch attempt to render a blow. Pathetic, but admittedly typical. We hate losing. :P”
He definitely hates losing. The endless excuses he made for not winning at a work go-kart outing, my goodness. With the restraining order, he was very patient. I’m talking months here. Sporadic baiting and information gathering through channels that were very predictable. I was executing a strategy at the time, too. He went for maximum pain (my husband had been charged with domestic violence, which he knew about it and thought I was suffering. I did, however, perform extremely well strategically and tactically in that situation, which he had no visibility of). I would like to say a lot more but it’s not wise. In reality, it was a thrilling… stalemate. Again.
“I would prefer an open marriage. My physical exclusivity is a constant struggle. It appears as though he is unwilling or unable to make the sacrifices necessary for monogamy to work. If he will not give this even to his wife- what on earth made you think he would do it for you- a mere "side project"?”
Here is another highly interesting point. You do know that as a species, we are socially monogamous but not sexually monogamous? Look at the facts and not the rules. I’m happy to hear that your marriage is worth the sacrifice; but it does still sound like a sacrifice.
I don’t know if I could be monogamous again. I wouldn’t want to pledge that to anyone right now. This may change, but at the moment, having been through these experiences, I am growing at such a rapid rate, I couldn’t keep pace with any one person for very long. I can’t imagine tying my life to one person again. An open relationship might be more viable.
Have you discussed an open relationship with your husband?
“What a juvenile fiasco.” It absolutely is. Why the fuck will he not have a conversation? I just want to talk to him. And maybe get into his pants. I actually can’t play the game I know would work; I simply cannot physically submit to him. I don’t even want to play, I don’t want to beat him, it’s not like that at all from my side (the time around the court conference being a little different). I have such interesting conversations here and with other sociopaths I meet – why can’t he do that? It’s so silly.
“That is not going to change unless he deliberately acts in a manner contrary to his nature. Even then, it will be forced, and, despite his best efforts, it will only be a matter of time before he slips back into old habits. I am all too aware of this tendency. :P”
DeleteYeah, and I really don’t want to force any changes. Ultimately this is why I have to let go of any hope of conversation.
How does it feel for you, conforming and reshaping yourself? I’m intrigued by this. What is darkness to you? Are you always in a state of trade-off? How do you relax? My ex was tensionless, a deep calm and yet easily excited. Low tension, high energy. Does this resonate with you?
“Yes, the sex was great. Sociopaths are amazing in bed. He was doubtless adventurous, bold, and experimental- allowing you feel things you had never experienced before. But do not be mistaken. Our emotions run shallow. While your heart was on the line, let me assure you- for all his pretty words- his was not. You should have known this. “
I can only say this is spot on, with the caveat already mentioned above about his picking a particular adventure as a challenge. He was, I must say, amazingly and surprisingly creative. But when he became frustrated I wouldn’t take his chosen course, things got stale quickly. He was very stubborn and I wouldn’t budge.
“Screw that. Move on. Too much water under the bridge. Mind-blowing orgasms are great, but he was using you for cheap thrills and physical gratification. A strong, intelligent woman like you deserves someone who will complete her in every way.”
Thankyou. I really do appreciate your saying that. I have learned, as I think M.E. has said, that love is unreliable. There’s been no reliable source of comfort or safety. I have created that for myself; I won’t look for completion in another. But neither do I rule out that possibility for others. To collaborate with others, to journey with interesting people for a period is all I am looking for at the moment.
North, You've never had sex with this person. As to the rest of your lies, which are all over your entries, they're quite ridiculous. Get a grip on reality for a change.
DeleteLooks like you have an anonymous troll, North. You know, the cowardly kind. :D
DeleteIt's about time. This place has been a touchy-feely circle jerk for quite awhile, now. :P
That said, I'd be interested in what you have to say, 10:21. Do you have some trenchant deductions or concrete examples to share with the rest of the class? Otherwise, I think it's safe to assume you're just talking out of your ass.
What is darkness to you?
DeleteSigh. Everything I crave but seek to reject. It needs to come out in some ways though. I have a lot of scar tissue. I have a chronic sensation-seeking problem.
you always in a state of trade-off?
Oh, yes.
How you relax?
I smoke pot and shut off.
My ex was tensionless, a deep calm and yet easily excited. Low tension, high energy. Does this resonate with you?
Very much.
“I really do appreciate your saying that. I have learned, as I think M.E. has said, that love is unreliable. There’s been no reliable source of comfort or safety. I have created that for myself; I won’t look for completion in another.
I understand exactly what you mean. You have to be willing to endure pain and die to yourself to truly merge with another, in some ways. I met mine as a teenager. We are in some ways like a single person. But there are things that I cannot share with him.
Yes, I have discussed an open marriage with him. It is not an option. He could not live with that. He loves me in a way that most women long for more than anything in the world- but which I am literally unable to reciprocate, in many ways. Ironic, isn't it? :)
An open marriage would be contrary to the values that I have chose, but I can easily co-exist with blatant hypocrisy, without cognitive dissonance or a shred of guilt. My current arrangement is good for someone like me, who is so prone to excess, sensation-seeking, and overindulgence I know this. But it is hard.
^ *That I have chosen.
DeleteLot of typos, there. Ignore them. :)
"Looks like you have an anonymous troll, North."
DeleteAll good fun.
"Sigh. Everything I crave but seek to reject. It needs to come out in some ways though. I have a lot of scar tissue. I have a chronic sensation-seeking problem."
I hope you can heal. The sensation-seeking may well be your life-force exerting itself.
"I understand exactly what you mean. You have to be willing to endure pain and die to yourself to truly merge with another, in some ways. I met mine as a teenager. We are in some ways like a single person. But there are things that I cannot share with him."
Part of me understands this. I had a friend with whom I felt bound. I could visualise our thoughts melding; they had colour, shape and texture. From experience, it is good to maintain private areas and your own identity.
"Yes, I have discussed an open marriage with him. It is not an option. He could not live with that. He loves me in a way that most women long for more than anything in the world- but which I am literally unable to reciprocate, in many ways. Ironic, isn't it? :)"
Ironic, yes. But there's always a reason it works :)
"An open marriage would be contrary to the values that I have chose, but I can easily co-exist with blatant hypocrisy, without cognitive dissonance or a shred of guilt. My current arrangement is good for someone like me, who is so prone to excess, sensation-seeking, and overindulgence I know this. But it is hard. "
Boundaries are a way of showing love, too. Maybe even to yourself. I will ponder and play with that.
Thanks for sharing, A.
Gosh, I make horrendous typos in all my posts. I get excited and don't check what I've written, especially on my phone.
Late to the party, sorry. Extenuating circumstances ;)
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, I don't think there's any one answer to this question. In the same way that all psychopaths/sociopaths are not the same, not all empaths are the same (and not all non-psycho/socio people are empaths). Different people want different things. Probably best just to treat everyone as an individual (i.e. find out what your particular partner wants. For that, you'll have to ask them. Be prepared for the fact they may lie or not even know themselves).
Great point! I agree, it's common for empaths to not really know what they want.
Delete