I have been really into the famous stoic Marcus Aurelius recently. Part of trying to become more aware of my emotions means that I am suddenly sometimes swimming knee deep in terrible emotions, without any practice dealing with any of it or making sense of it. Marcus Aurelius has been a good way to get more zen about things. Quotes like:
"When you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: The people I deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly. They are like this because they can’t tell good from evil. But I have seen the beauty of good, and the ugliness of evil, and have recognized that the wrongdoer has a nature related to my own — not of the same blood or birth, but of the same mind, and possessing a share of the divine. And so none of them can hurt me. No one can implicate me in ugliness. Nor can I feel angry at my relative, or hate him. We were born to work together like feet, hands, and eyes, like the two rows of teeth, upper and lower. To obstruct each other is unnatural. To feel anger at someone, to turn your back on him: these are obstructions."
And:
"The only thing that isn’t worthless: to live this life out truthfully and rightly... patient with those who don’t.”
In a similar vein, a reader rights about the appeal of Epicureanism for sociopaths:
This one is a long read, but I think you'll enjoy it.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/08/110808fa_fact_greenblatt?currentPage=all
Apparently Machiavelli was an Epicurean. Epicurean philosophy: materialist, rational, pleasure-oriented and pro-social. It is very different from Catholocism/Christianity.
Personally, Stoicism appeals to me more. It is basically the same philosophy, but with more emphasis on self-control in all situations. But if you are happy and full of joy and wonder, it is a lot easier to be nice.
If you always remember that you've only got right now to live - and that you'll be dead forever - that makes it a lot easier to be nice to oneself and others.
A selection:
Anyone who thought, as Lucretius did, that it was a particular pleasure to gaze from shore at a ship foundering in wild seas or to stand on a height and behold armies clashing on a plain—“not because any man’s troubles are a delectable joy, but because to perceive what ills you are free from yourself is pleasant”—is not someone I can find an entirely companionable soul. I am, rather, with Shakespeare’s Miranda, who, harrowed by the vision of a shipwreck, cries, “O, I have suffered / With those I saw suffer!” There is something disturbingly cold in Lucretius’ account of pleasure, an account that leads him to advise those who are suffering from the pangs of intense love to reduce their anguish by taking many lovers.
"When you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: The people I deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly. They are like this because they can’t tell good from evil. But I have seen the beauty of good, and the ugliness of evil, and have recognized that the wrongdoer has a nature related to my own — not of the same blood or birth, but of the same mind, and possessing a share of the divine. And so none of them can hurt me. No one can implicate me in ugliness. Nor can I feel angry at my relative, or hate him. We were born to work together like feet, hands, and eyes, like the two rows of teeth, upper and lower. To obstruct each other is unnatural. To feel anger at someone, to turn your back on him: these are obstructions."
And:
"The only thing that isn’t worthless: to live this life out truthfully and rightly... patient with those who don’t.”
In a similar vein, a reader rights about the appeal of Epicureanism for sociopaths:
This one is a long read, but I think you'll enjoy it.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/08/110808fa_fact_greenblatt?currentPage=all
Apparently Machiavelli was an Epicurean. Epicurean philosophy: materialist, rational, pleasure-oriented and pro-social. It is very different from Catholocism/Christianity.
Personally, Stoicism appeals to me more. It is basically the same philosophy, but with more emphasis on self-control in all situations. But if you are happy and full of joy and wonder, it is a lot easier to be nice.
If you always remember that you've only got right now to live - and that you'll be dead forever - that makes it a lot easier to be nice to oneself and others.
A selection:
Anyone who thought, as Lucretius did, that it was a particular pleasure to gaze from shore at a ship foundering in wild seas or to stand on a height and behold armies clashing on a plain—“not because any man’s troubles are a delectable joy, but because to perceive what ills you are free from yourself is pleasant”—is not someone I can find an entirely companionable soul. I am, rather, with Shakespeare’s Miranda, who, harrowed by the vision of a shipwreck, cries, “O, I have suffered / With those I saw suffer!” There is something disturbingly cold in Lucretius’ account of pleasure, an account that leads him to advise those who are suffering from the pangs of intense love to reduce their anguish by taking many lovers.
Are there no reader-letters wondering the classic question (with a new twist), wondering if "they are" autists? Not interested in other humans, having no friends and not wanting any, choosing unpopular diners so they wont be disturbed by noisy crowds, not understanding the "social glibness" of so called sociopaths (that seems...unbearable even to fake) etc etc? Malign autism is another term for psychopathy. So why do so many "wanna-bees" not "wanna be" autists then..?
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like you're describing Schizoid Personality Disorder, which arguably is a normal personality not a disordered one. Introverts are widely socially accepted in our modern time, just take a good look at Tumblr. It might as well be called "Introvert World".
DeleteForgive me, Im typing from a phone.
DeleteI have to agree with you to a point, there are those with deep introverted ideas of being and they rather find themselves detesting others in general. With the rise of technology, this only supports their ability to sink into caves of their own making. So, one must ask, is this a form of regression, a form of mental laps, predisposure, or just the opposite reflection of the very idea of this book?
What I find interesting, is the aurguement of dogmas this set of forums have attracted. Those who are so apt to insult all others.
I recently have been medically eval'd and labeled with sociopathic traits. I don't know what that means altogether. I was hand picked and selected for my position and to the Dr., he said it was veryclear to him that my career bolsters my actions and way of thinking. I am benchmarked nearly at every turn and have the awards to prove it. But, why accept any dogma?
I do not see its purpose and am zealous of it. The ultimate exchange. I see all of them as rival control systems.
-Acid
"I do not see its purpose and am zealous of it. The ultimate exchange. I see all of them as rival control systems."
DeletePeople, and sociopaths, might seek out religion or philosophies to give themselves a way to morally ground themselves to fit in with society better. Religions are social constructs or "control systems" that have guidelines built upon constantly and have been growing since ancient times; people wouldn't still be following them unless they gave some kind of fulfillment from them, so it may be fair to say that the codes built within them are valid in some way. Some parts of them might be irrational, and some rules make sense to follow if they're socially acceptable in modern society.
Personally I don't bother with them. I know for a fact I'm going to cherry pick whatever bits and pieces that suit me and ignore the rest (I might pay lip service to them just to keep up a acceptable appearance amongst my peers). Sometimes an individual or group of people of interest to me might partake in a faith, and I might slip my way in. I'll pick up on sone of the basic principles of the religion so I can keep up small talk or light conversation, and go from their to get what I want. Religious people can be easy to play with because they frequently pull the wool over their own eyes and never know any better.
So your point is that others see that they get a since of purpose. With that, we opperate within a set of rules...on the others who are looking for purpose. I can see that; however, I do that without religion.
Delete-Acid
I might qualify as one. I am super sensative.
ReplyDeleteAt the age of 12, as a reaction to a humilating social incident, I avoided most
unnecessary social contacts. I thought it was just a passing faze, but year after
year went by. I lost the ability to comfortably relate to people and deport myself
properly, whether it be grooming or other social graces. An insecure "creep"
another words.
I am the butt of all jokes. (Bored people need a scapegoat) and have recieved
only intermitantly kind treatment from very rare non-judgmental people.
Unfortunately, occassional "missions" are unavoidable, and I must walk among
people that I am sure to offend. They assume they are dealing with an unwanted
retarded person, and that certainly is the case in the social sphere.
The only thing I can do is to overlook the slights and rude treatment and be
polite and civil. To do anything else is to offend all the more. It doesn't pay for a
person in my position to be an "injustice collector" and stew about these things.
If a person is to frightened of death, then they are condemned to "life."
Malign autists "seethe" with hatred, hidden anger & loathing for other people, just like other extroverted types of psychopaths. Its not "jelly" that floats around in the gutter after rainy days. Their meek, quiet & grey exterior is misunderstood by 99% of all empaths. What they see is a quiet tarantula or sidewinder-snake. They know about this "stealth"-feature and never does anything to try and explain facts to anyone. Like all other psychopaths or Scorpio-people they simply dont care what people they don´t like, appreciate, admire or respect think of them..
ReplyDeleteThomas Mann, Confessions of Felix Krull:
Delete"It was at this time, too, I often amused myself by a sort of introspection which even today has not lost all charm for me. I would inquire of myself: which is better, to see the world small or to see it large? The significance of the question was this: great men, I thought, field-marshals, statesmen, conquerors, and leading spirits generally that rise above the mass of mankind must be so constituted as to see the world small, like a chess-board, else they would never command the necessary ruthlessness to regulate the common weal and woe according to their own will. Yet it was quite possible, on the other hand, that such a diminishing point of view, as it were, might lead to one doing nothing at all. For if you saw the world and human beings in it as small and insignificant and were early persuaded that nothing was worth while, you could easily sink into indifference and indolence and contemptuously prefer your own peace of mind to any influence you might exert upon the spirits of men. And added to that your own supine detachment from mankind would certainly give offence and cut you off still further from any success you might have had in despite of yourself. Then is it better, I would next inquire, to think of the world and human nature as great, glorious, and important, worthy the expenditure of every effort to the end of achieving some meed of esteem and good report? Yet again, how easily can such a point of view lead to selfdetraction and loss of confidence, so that the fickle world passes you by with a smile as a simpleton, in favour of more selfconfident lovers! Though on the other hand such genuine credulity and artlessness has its good side too, since men cannot but be flattered by the way you look up to them; and if you devote yourself to making this impression, it will give weight and seriousness to your life, lend it meaning in your own eyes, and lead to your advancement. In this wise would I speculate and weigh the pros and cons; but always it has lain in my nature to take up the second position, seeing the world and mankind as great and glorious phenomena, capable of affording such priceless satisfactions that no effort on my part could seem disproportionate to the rewards I might reap."
I was out and about yesterday and I ran into this guy on the street walking his pet goat. He had it on a leash, and it was wearing a child's winter coat. He told me to seek repentance and forgiveness from God, but I told him that I don't buy into a culture of fear and consumption; they want you to be scared of what you've done (or lack thereof), and so they ask you to get on your knees, hands clasped, and beg this supreme narcissist for forgiveness. For someone who never feels no guilt whatsoever, what utility does this "repentance" have for me? Nothing at all. I think I would have to fear the person that I am, my identity as a sociopath, to feel the need to take that action.
ReplyDeleteI do recognize that ny perception of reality is not necessarily what other people might see it as, that just because I perceive someone in a certain way by no means does that truly define their reality from their perspective. Perhaps their faith and prayers gives them the fulfillment they seek, and that's fine. That's their reality. It's not for me though.
As for getting in touch with your emotions, don't get your hopes up. I think normal people would do themselves a favor by taking a lot of those emotions with a grain of salt. Proceeding with a cool head of rationale is of greater utility then an emotional carousel mind careening out of control.
*never feels guilt
DeleteThe entire human species is insane. Consider planned parenthood in Colorado Springs. Consider San Bernardino today. We are all crazy.
ReplyDeleteI like this post. I know very little about the broader stoic & epicurean philosophy - that which I read in Russell's "A History of Western Philosophy" and Wikipedia. The general philosophy of both schools of thought, however, is simple enough. Nonetheless, I don't pretend to be knowledgeable about either school but I can share my observations based on personal experience.
ReplyDeleteAs an atheist - and thus for almost my entire adult life - I considered myself a sort of Epicurean - hedonist in its original sense, NOT how it has come to be understood (some sort of pure selfishness & pleasure seeking). Epicurus was THE ideal example of a man: rational, scientific (dismissing all non-empirical, "superstitious" ideologies) and ascetic at the same time. His "pleasure" was sought by gaining knowledge and living modestly - the perfect balance between the apparent extremes of religion (complete devotion to the supernatural) and the materialist (complete devotion to the material and pleasure).
Stoicism, interestingly enough, as I just realized after reading about it a little more is almost identical to the Islamic concept of "Fitra" - that human beings will gain serenity and peace (and thus happiness) in this world if they adhere to their Fitra (the natural way - as intended by God). Zeno of Citium comes across as either a monotheist or a pantheist. In fact I would comfortably add that he very likely was a "messenger" in the Quranic sense - individuals inspired by God to direct their people to the Natural way as intended by God. The obvious question is of course: why the need for the supernatural? Why can't we have the ascetic life without adhering to the "unknown" or believing in things "without evidence." Also, what's wrong with Epicureanism?
1) Epicurus seems to assume that everyone gains pleasure by seeking knowledge and living modestly. I know I would in an ideal world but the world is not ideal and I know VERY FEW people who are like me - prioritize learning about the world and the cosmos to everything else and actually gain pleasure from doing so. Why on Earth would anyone else take him seriously? It's no wonder that his "hedonism" is the exact opposite of what he supposedly preached: gain pleasure to the maximum possible given the time & context and in whatever way that suits you. No one defines hedonism today as he did.
2) As for why stoicism can't work without a God who is not merely a pantheistic God but a more "personal" God who is actively involved in the affairs of His creation:
Again, like Epicureanism, this will appeal to anyone who's already in that mindset - seeking an ascetic, down to earth, "natural" living. Sure if the society was by and large reflected that lifestyle - and I submit most traditional cultures are - it is much easier. However, when a culture becomes so nuanced and diverse this will appeal to those who have either exhausted all other means of living or to those with a natural predisposition to it. What else, besides a need to satiate an inner craving, will direct a society to this?
It fails to explain phenomenon such as evil and doesn't provide any means to secure a moral fiber in a society. After being battered so much, one time after another, I realized that I had no choice but to either become what I hated or live a solitary (and miserable) life. I guess suicide would be a third option. No - merely seeking a simple, natural, ascetic life is impossible when your brain has been battered beyond its capacity. Ultimately everyone has a breaking point and the ultimate question is: what will keep you - and by extension civilization - intact when that occurs?
ReplyDeleteGod is evident when an purely objective spectator observes the world but that level of objectivity is only possible AFTER you believe in God. If that sounds like a contradiction it is not: God reveals Himself to each person (a believer) in different ways. Once the "faith" is established, one realizes that they were simply incapable of seeing the obvious signs all over and therefore labeled the whole concept as irrational. They, in their ignorance, dismissed that which they could not understand. Precisely why God demands humility and a call to Him directly. Nothing I believe today rejects what I believed as an atheist - it just sees beyond.
Stoicism + God = The Truth
I almost would like to think that God might be more akin to a hive mind then a single consciousness. Perhaps the voice of God is just one of many, in our heads.
DeleteIf She speaks to me, I think it's often to tell me to do whatever is needed and true to my nature, for that's how She made me.
I understand what you mean, anon- and I am myself struggling with distinguishing the voice of God from amidst the fray. I sure know the sound of my own voice. But God doesn't yell like me. ;) He whispers truth in the form of quiet conviction.
DeleteMy biggest issue is that I have trouble relating to that conviction emotionally. My feelings are so fleeting, and I cannot seem to experience guilt or remorse, even when I understand cognitively that I *should*. As a result, I have never experienced deep, transformative remorse. That emotional feedback loop is missing because of all the "scar tissue" that I have. It numbs me.
I think of God more like a loving Father. That has proved difficult, because my own father was very harsh and abusive with me. As a result, I frequently catch myself thinking that I am completely unworthy of his love. And to some extent- I know it is true- because the parts of myself that I think are worthy of rejecting are indeed "sinful" (to use a religious term in keeping with my own faith tradition) - or destructive, if you prefer.
But I am conflicted because they are also such a fundamental part of my personality. I have internalized anti social behaviors from such a young age, and this "sin pattern" (personality disorder) so enmeshed in every aspect of my being that it is difficult to see where I begin and my "sin" (including aspects of my personality disorder) ends. I have such an ephemeral and flexible sense of self in spite of my strong consistency in some areas (particularly wherein my flaws are concerned: Arrogance, aggression, narcissism, anger, lack of impulse control.)
I have accepted these traits and *feel* most satisfied when I express them. But I have internalized certain predilections and perversions so strongly that to disavow them would be akin to rejecting myself. And I like myself. Even though cognitively, I understand that there are a myriad of reasons I should not like the destructive propensities to which I referred above. It is like a catch-22
Thank you for sharing, A.
DeleteMy own father was only briefly in my life, just the first five years of it. I don't remember him as particularly abusive, besides the occasional beating for misbehaving. Neglected, perhaps. He was either holed up in his garage working on his muscle car, at work, or out partying. Then he was gone. He said if I ever wanted to see him, I would have to cone to him because he never would. I ceased to exist to him, and he did to me. I never loved him, so there has never been a love to miss. In that sense I do indeed relate to you; how can I love God as a father figure if there is no basis for it?
Even if I have no issue socializing and working my way into the hearts of others, the emotions that lay beneath the mask are not what they would appear to be from the outside. Unlike the people around me the emotions I experience are of a different context from the given moment. It's like a sock puppet that seems to say the right words and move its lips correctly, but pull back the sock and you'll only uncover a television that shows white noise.
If I feel no emotional obligation, I'm less inclined to consider the morals I abide by and the ethicalness of my actions. I think that, like you, besides genetics that environmental factors play a part in why this is so. The natural survival instincts we develop at a young age carry on to our adulthood, our emotional disconnection from others and our environment for the sake of prioritizing what's in our own best interests and only being considerate of the needs of others when it suits our whims. Will God's desires coincide with mine, will they be the instrument I require to achieve my ambitions?
I like myself too. That's a given. What kind of life would you rather have then the only one you'll ever have and love?
Anonymous 8:20 AM:
ReplyDeleteI empathize with much of what you said. I never could understand why God has this apparent need to make His creation feel guilty and sinful all the time. What sin am I guilty of? Of being born predisposed to homosexuality? Of being born in a time & context I didn't chose? Of being exposed to people and ideas I don't chose? Of being a product almost entire of His design and then being accused of wrongs I supposedly committed and am ignorant of? Sounds like a nice way of destroying your self-esteem and then making you a pawn.
By God I was 100% wrong and I cannot possibly explain to you why. All I can say is what I always say: you'll know it yourself IF you try asking God for answers and guidance directly and sincerely. You don't have to ask for forgiveness for anything if you truly don't feel like you are guilty of any wrong - that is utterly foolish,
Thank you.
DeleteIt's a very interesting idea. Why create something, accuse it of sins it feels no remorse for or is otherwise innocent of, and judge that its mere state of existence is a sin? I might conclude that the true sinner then is the creator of that sin, God. How could that possibly be though if God is (I assume) the embodiment of "good"?
If God created me with this condition, and his intentions were good, then my existence and state of being is justified. I must be justified if God is the highest power, worthy of judging me to the fullest as they should.
Or I'm just bad. In that case, judgment has already been made and I will face the consequences for my own si calked sins and identity when the time comes. If I was born to be damned, then fear of what's yet to come and guilt for what has always been is absolutely moot so I don't care.
I understand *exactly* what you mean. That is why (ahem, Jihadi) I don't like to call myself "Christian". In so many ways, I am unworthy of the name.
DeleteAnd yet, I believe that is specifically why Jesus calls us to the high moral standard of the Sermon on the Mount, *knowing full well* that none of us can attain that level of righteousness. Only God can meet His own standard of holiness. We are by definition, flawed creatures, as symbolically evidenced in the book of Genesis by "the fall", which is potentiated by our collective deception. He knows this. He permitted it. It is by working through our sins and flaws that we can grow stronger, and evolve in our spiritual understanding.
That is why He sent His Son: Emmanuel: God with us. We cannot save ourselves. We cannot extricate ourselves from the sin that lives in us, as long as we exist temporally. We must admit that we fall short, and that we need Him. He accomplished on our behalf what we could never do apart from Him. That is the beautiful and powerful symbolic significance of the crucifixion and the resurrection. And that is why the Bible teaches that it is by *faith* that we are saved, and not works, so that no man can boast. You are justified if you humbly accept that only God can justify you. Through faith, He provided you a way of being sure of that. Grace is *unmerited* favour.
I am not trying to convince you to follow my path, just explaining why I believe as I do, and why I consider it to be my only hope.
I cannot accept the rantings of a warmonger who called himself benevolent and beneficient when he advocates the slaughter of his enemies, when my Lord teaches me to love them, and to pray for this who persecute me. I am a hypocrite, too. I am a lot more like Mohammed than Jesus. But cognitively and ethically, I cannot call a practicing murderer and pedophile a prophet. This is logically inconsistent and my whole being rails against it.
Jesus said I am the Way, the truth and the light. Unlike the rest of us, he practiced what he preached. He didn't set a different standard for himself and his followers, like Mohammed the Uber Empath (lol). He advocated sacrificial, unconditional love incarnate, and manifested it by way of His actions. It is for that reason I call Him Lord and savior. Certainly not because of the way I behave: On the contrary, that is why I *need* Him.
"You are justified if you humbly accept that only God can justify you. Through faith, He provided you a way of being sure of that."
DeleteI like this, the way you put it. It speaks to me. If anyone should judge me, I think the only fair one to do so is a higher power, for who could know me better then my creator?
Even though I am not religious, I like to entertain ideas and thoughts in a religious context, if only to better communicate better with those who follow a faith.
A,
DeleteYou're very lucid and you humble me.
You understand grace more deeply then I have encountered before - perhaps you have experienced it in a significant way?
Ephesians 2:8-9 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."
I don't agree with this premise:
"We are by definition, flawed creatures, as symbolically evidenced in the book of Genesis by "the fall""
so have personally found natural practices for living.
Regardless of belief system, mercy triumphs over judgement. Laws give structure to a society, but it is the relational exercise of mercy that bonds a group together and helps each of us grow.
Your humility and responsibility attract, compel and challenge me.
"You're very lucid and you humble me."
DeleteThank you. This is going to be a long reply, so please bear with me.
"You understand grace more deeply then I have encountered before - perhaps you have experienced it in a significant way?"
When I was young, I was on a very destructive path. I was violent and abusive with family members and school mates. I was the smartass know-it-all who argued with her teachers and showed up for exams plastered, yet aced them. I stole stuff, got into fights, and was exceedingly promiscuous. I often endangered my own life and the lives of others by way of my irresponsibility. (I'll admit that I still do, sometimes). Etc. I was well on my way to becoming a low functioning train-wreck. :P
But one night, shortly after I met my husband, I had a strange dream. I was standing at the fridge looking for something to eat (there were only pickles) when I became aware that Jesus was in my parents' room. "Oh my God!" I exclaimed. "My Lord is in my house!"- although I would not have called him "Lord" at that time in my life.
At first, He just held me. I felt truly at peace and safe for the first time in my life. Then He blew right into my solar plexus... Into the very core of my being, and said: "Your heart was blocked and you were in danger of dying, but you are going to be okay now". I felt a tingling sensation that spread throughout my whole body.
"Is it because I smoke, Lord?" I asked. I was puzzle, because I erroneously interpreted his words literally; I thought he meant my arteries were blocked- even though I was just barely into my twenties, lol.
As I started to wake up and gain lucidity, I realized I had Jesus with me and wanted to take advantage of it. I had been reading about Jewish mysticism, so I projected an image of the Tree of life to Him:
"Is this good, Lord?" I asked.
"Yes, it is good", He replied, "but from now on I want you to see it like this..." And He transformed the Tree of Life into a triangle- a symbol for the Trinity.
It is only much later that I read in the Bible that Jesus imparted the Holy Spirit to his disciples by blowing on them. (John 20:22) I found that very cool and interesting in light of my dream.
Ephesians 2:8-9 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."
Delete^I am extremely grateful for this. I would be SO fucked without that provision. I accept the prosthetic moral compass accorded to me by the New Testament, because mine is shattered. It never worked properly. And I still have a very hard time practicing what I preach in many areas- so I don't tend to preach much. :P
"I don't agree with this premise:
"We are by definition, flawed creatures, as symbolically evidenced in the book of Genesis by "the fall""
I do believe in the existence of evil, on account of some powerful anecdotal experiences. But I really dislike how many people who acknowledge its existence park their rational faculties at the door to hop aboard Fundie & Co.'s Judgement Train. :P
I think all of the atrocities in the world attest to the presence of evil. But I also believe that its existence is a necessary catalyst for growth. Destructive processes birth new life. The serpent found its way into the garden, and God permitted it. We cannot be victorious without a struggle. Every aspect of our evolution as human beings attests to this.
Jesus said: "Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things *must* come, but woe to the person through whom they come!" (Matt 18:7, emphasis mine)
That is the devil's plight.
This would not be considered a sound teaching within most branches of Christianity, on account of Christianity's inherent duality. My understanding of theology is based upon an independent study of the Bible, and doesn't really conform to that of any denomination. I don't go to Church. I think too many ministers, pastors and priests try to control what their parishioners think, and use religion as a tool through which to manipulate their flock- sometimes unconsciously, and often with good intentions. But I can see through it, and I disdain it.
A personal encounter with the holy wasn't ultimately enough ot convince me. It did not satisfy my logical mind or propensity for ripping into and tearing apart every argument. (I'm an ENTP. I love to argue, even with myself.) So I researched the historical and archaeological underpinnings of the Bible extensively, and weighed them against the discrepancies, and was astonished by what I found- at how credible a document it is from antiquity, how faithfully it was reproduced over many generations, how so many prophecies written by several authors over the course of millenia came true in a historically verifiable manner. Once learned, my analytical mind could not disregard or dismiss those facts, and they humbled me.
So I accept the irrational premise of the resurrection. I accept the presence of the mysterious in life.... it has kissed me on the lips. I accept the spiritual dimension of our collective existence, because I have experienced it personally. I want to embrace it, because it gives me a hope in something that utterly and wholly transcends me. And that is awe-inspiring.
I like that feeling. Feelings taste good. I don't have enough of them in my diet. :)
Delete"so have personally found natural practices for living."
I think you have a remarkably expansive and analytical mind- and that your openness to grow from the experiences of others is admirable. You are also very wise. You're a beautiful soul, North.
"Regardless of belief system, mercy triumphs over judgement."
I disagree. Not all belief systems or people embrace this principle. I think that statement reflects a naive worldview that is negated by the unfolding of history. Belief systems constitute a form of indoctrination. Their content has the capacity to alter human behaviour. That is why I think that theocratic ideologies like Islam- which was exquisitely crafted by a manipulative mastermind to consolidate power and wield control over the masses, through violence that its progenitor legitimized and incited in others via self-righteous fervor- are particularly dangerous. But Christianity was also used towards nefarious ends. And so, unlike many Christians, I think that the separation of church and state is very important for the safeguarding of our personal freedoms within the framework of a pluralistic democracies. People are assholes- myself included. :P
"Laws give structure to a society, but it is the relational exercise of mercy that bonds a group together and helps each of us grow."
I fully agree with this statement.
"Your humility and responsibility attract, compel and challenge me."
Thank you. You are the first person to ever call me humble on this blog- and this, from amongst a long list of people who would no doubt line up to punch me in the face. :D
I wouldn't have it any other way. I can truly be myself here, and express *all* of my parts openly, candidly, and without restraint. Even my sociopathy. This is so valuable to me.
Excellent..... now open da mouth. My friend is on ur lvl and singhle. How much would u love a five star candel lit dinner in a PJB. There are MANY where yoda came from, go to them cause u aint getting shit (no pun intended) out me. As if u actually thought u were good enough to make off of me. R u a fool?
Delete“When I was young, I was on a very destructive path. I was violent and abusive with family members and school mates. I was the smartass know-it-all who argued with her teachers and showed up for exams plastered, yet aced them. I stole stuff, got into fights, and was exceedingly promiscuous. I often endangered my own life and the lives of others by way of my irresponsibility. (I'll admit that I still do, sometimes). Etc. I was well on my way to becoming a low functioning train-wreck. :P”
DeleteAs I peruse your post, I can see that, in “some” ways, we have similar backgrounds. I used to be a Goth at that time, A. However, I was not the typical kind of Goth that you might picture, but a more refined and sophisticated type. Afterward, finding the root of God and the spirit of awakening enmeshed into my being as well. We have this in common, and I see the truth and deep absorption of it in your posts.
“But one night, shortly after I met my husband, I had a strange dream.”
My dreams can be rather strange, too. Although mine was in a different setting, it manifested in an analogous fashion to what I am about to show you. You can view it as a “revelation,” so to speak, for dreams can come to us in this form, too. I searched for comparisons, and this is the best one that I was able to find, since my dream was quite transformative and visual. I resolved that I wanted to keep it that way, and transmit it to you in a similar “course” or approach. Everything that you see in here was a manifestation of it, including the bloody part. Well, we have Jesus, the Bible, the “Lord,” the Tree of Life in these discussions, and, now, I am adding angels. It designs a course, and it explains such dreams.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=673ueAMymNs
"Your heart was blocked and you were in danger of dying, but you are going to be okay now".
This segment reminded me of your visitor, and I wanted to share it. I feel as though visuals can paint a better picture of certain words or experiences, especially religious experiences. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcvc0fyb1ow
And, yes, life can be so exalting when having such revelations in the mold of dreams.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHckzPJuPKw
“I had been reading about Jewish mysticism, so I projected an image of the Tree of life to Him:”
Yes, this mystical school of thought came to be known as Kabbalah, meaning "to receive, to accept." The good and evil that we do manifests through the Sefirot and affects the entire universe, up to and including God Himself.
“So I accept the irrational premise of the resurrection. I accept the presence of the mysterious in life.... it has kissed me on the lips. I accept the spiritual dimension of our collective existence, because I have experienced it personally. I want to embrace it, because it gives me a hope in something that utterly and wholly transcends me. And that is awe-inspiring.”
The premise of the resurrection is an area that I have studied in great detail. Here are some findings on the subject.
Delete“And after my skin has been destroyed, yet will I see God; I myself will see him with my own eyes — I, and not another. How my heart yearns within me!” (Job 19:25 – 27). Not all scholars agree that this is a reference to the resurrection. It would seem, however, that the statement reflects at least a belief in an existence after death or even an actual reference to the resurrection.
There are several passages in the Psalms that give additional insight into life after death. One example is found in Psalm 16:9 –11, especially in verse 10, which reads: “because you will not abandon me to the grave [sheol], nor will you let your Holy One see decay.” This verse is especially significant in light of the fact that it was quoted by Peter in Acts 2:25 – 28 in reference to the resurrection of Jesus. Another is found in Psalm 49:15, which reads: “But God will redeem my life from the grave; he will surely take me to himself.” (See also Psalms 17:15 and 73:23 – 26.)
“I wouldn't have it any other way. I can truly be myself here, and express *all* of my parts openly, candidly, and without restraint. Even my sociopathy. This is so valuable to me.”
I am in full covenant with your approach, and see tremendous value in it as well.
Gardel, thank you so much for sharing this with me. I am particularly interested in the passages from the Bible that you posted. I was aware of the verses citing the resurrection from the book of Psalms, but the reference from Job is new to me, so thanks for that. I also find it very intriguing that you have knowledge of the Kabbalah. It is not a subject that many people are familiar with.
DeleteI really appreciate your posts, even more so of late.
I correspondingly appreciate your posts, A.
DeleteI have some knowledge of the Kabbalah, both from my family and independent discovery. The Kabbalah can be fascinating, especially when its symbolism is rightfully grasped. The Tree of Life consists of the inner world of beings, all the way to what Kabbalists term the “higher self.” Since humans are endowed with a mind and body, consciousness in the Kabbalah is viewed and applied as the fruit of the physical world. By way of this fluent channel, the “original infinite energy” can manifest and express itself as a finite entity. The energy of creation condenses into matter, through the Tree and, then, unites with its true nature. In this sense, the kabbalist yearns for knowledge as an expression of the Tree of Life, making the trip by various stages mapped by the symbolic Sephiroth. Coming to a realization, which is both initially and ultimately sought, is the primary goal of it.
I really liked the reference from Job, having included it with the belief or added conviction that you would understand it.
You know what you have to do.
ReplyDeleteYes. The conclusions I've drawn here were just what I thought, I simply walked in a circle but in the context of thinking of (and perhaps with) God. It is what it is, and as always I feel confident with that.
DeleteM.E.:
ReplyDeleteI really like your post. Epicureanism is pragmatic and human and freeing; it set the flagposts for my recovery (ongoing).
"I have been really into the famous stoic Marcus Aurelius recently. Part of trying to become more aware of my emotions means that I am suddenly sometimes swimming knee deep in terrible emotions, without any practice dealing with any of it or making sense of it."
M.E. thanks for sharing this. I'm interested in hearing more when it suits you.
I can possibly relate to some degree. Up until recently, I didn't understand my feelings. I considered them inconveniences to my will and actively repressed them. So I was a little at sea with my emotions when I did open up to them. I couldn't even name my feelings initially. And when I tried to express them, it's like I was choking on them or there was a block in my chest - no pathway through to my vocal apparatus. This sometimes still happens - it's a confusion that makes me cry almost exactly the way concussion does - because I feel bound like a mummy. But I've come a long way!
I don't know how far my experience correlates with yours, but perhaps you will also find this useful. The most helpful model I've found (I'm sure your therapist has offered good ones too) is the Universal Cycle of Joy, from Christopher S. Hyatt's Undoing Yourself with Energized Meditation. Across a full page, he writes:
............
Experience is cyclical.
All living things go through cycles of...
Tension
Charge
Discharge
Relax
ants, birds, flowers, people
blue-haired old ladies
Book buyers
Authors
Governments
Schools
Completion of the cycle is joy
Things unable to complete the cycle will die without experiencing much happiness.
(see URL for a pictorial version I made: http://i.imgur.com/bYpWR0X.png)
............
Feelings are how we experience the cycle. And Hyatt is right - if we allow ourselves to complete the cycle, rather than trying to force the feelings to stop or conform with what we think we should be feeling or doing - we experience joy.
Allowing feelings to flow is a beautiful experience. Even for sadness or emotions generally perceived as negative. Because by allowing yourself to complete the cycle you honour yourself and learn more about who you are and what your brain is steering you towards for your own survival / thriving.
The Marcus Aurelius quote is generous; it's learning by experience, broad and open. It doesn't force self or others to feel or do or be in particular ways, yet is aware. Using the Universal Cycle of Joy, I have learnt to be generous and patient with myself. And from there, as you suggest, I can extend that generosity and sense of wonder to others and to all situations that arise. I am not afraid of my emotions and treat them as messengers. I am patient with myself as I travel through cycles.
And, as you say, we can fully immerse in the present moment without fear. Using these techniques, I've developed a deep trust for myself and know I can enjoy any life situation.
Anon 4:08 PM wrote:
"I like myself too. That's a given. What kind of life would you rather have then the only one you'll ever have and love?"
This is a learning for me. I'm learning to like myself at the deepest levels and it feels amazing.
Well this is interesting. The tone changes once again but the signs of animosity and the anti-Muhammad and anti-Jesus agenda remain. Forgive me - God knows my intention is nothing but the truth - but if someone doesn't like calling themselves a Christian because of how they are, than we ought to have never known that they believed in Jesus at all. Dave Chappelle is a Muslim but he never speaks of it because he "doesn't want people to associate something so beautiful (Islam) with someone like him."
ReplyDeleteThose of you who have followed our discussions please note what these characters are doing now. I've pointed out A's intentions - deliberately aiming to caricature both Islam and Christianity simultaneously by feigning a link to Jesus and ranting away nonstop - in an uncivilized and illogical manner - against Muhammad. Now all of a sudden (odd coincidence) they (A and her / his associates) have changed the strategy a tad bit. They decided to not attack both men simultaneously. Since Muhammad is the prime target, they've decided to mellow down and act more appropriately Christian by keep vehemently assaulting Muhammad. You - at least A - is intelligent enough to know that the attacks she is making are completely false and ill-conceived. It's actually quite horrifying the depth to which you're going to fulfill your agenda. Your arrogance is sky high.
Readers just note one thing if you're confused: if she - or they - really believed all the lies they're spewing about Muhammad than instead of being so vulgar (and now cleverly less so but still lying) they'd actually engage in a completely civil and rational conversation. There would be no "attacks" - their would be legitimate questions raising concerns for them. We'd say something like "Jonaid, I agree with a lot of what Islam says but I feel a little uncomfortable with XYZ about Muhammad. I read the full context and this is what it is, if I'm not mistaken. Could you please advise why you think that is the case and why it is not wrong?"
I swear by the One who saved my life and in Whose name I am participating on this blog that Muhammad was no such thing as some here deliberately - in full awareness - are caricaturing him as. Anyone who's interested in the truth need only read his full biography and not let any of these minions prevent you from doing YOUR OWN RESEARCH.
Good luck - those of you who are sincere. God is with you if you call Him - remember that.
There is no "altering of my strategy" to suit you. I have been coming here a long time, and anyone who knows that can attest that I am rather consistent in my habits. It's not all about you. I've discussed this topic at length before- and my tune hasn't changed. Which proves you wrong about my motives and intentions, here.
DeleteAgain, you judge so superficially. You are so hung up on my vulgarity, which ai only display when it suits me, that you refuse to even address the legitimate critiques of your religion that I have presented.
You swear by Mohammed that Mohammed did not do the things he himself advocates in his Qu'ran? You swear that he did not consummate his marriage to 9 year old Aisha? You swear that he did not utilize beheadings and crucifixions to punish his enemies and dissenters? What?
My vulgarity is a device, and just look at what it has accomplished at drawing out from you!
DeleteBy aggressively putting you on the defensive, I have exposed the weak points in your theology, revealed the extent of your narcissistic bias, uncovered your psychological weaknesses, and identified your triggers and prejudices.
Silly boy. :)
"I swear by the One who saved my life and in Whose name I am participating on this blog that Muhammad was no such thing as some here deliberately - in full awareness - are caricaturing him as. Anyone who's interested in the truth need only read his full biography and not let any of these minions prevent you from doing YOUR OWN RESEARCH."
DeleteNow there's an idea from Jonarsewad: doing my own RESEARCH!
DONE!
As a result, here is the right research/the Truth about the littering SCATOLOGY that you are trying to spread on this site. I am posting it here, hoping that all of this blog's readers view it and KNOW/illuminate.
"Islam Truth: Agenda of Evil":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg3WVE8lI9c
M.E. there is an almost infinite amount of literature out there on any given topic. You cannot possibly master a single branch of philosophy in your entire lifetime. THAT is the trick - they've bombarded us with infinite amount of nonsense (with some grain of truth in there on occasion) thereby making the Truth - which is ever so simple and evident when it's finally discovered - almost impossible to find. That is why I say to everyone to forget the debate and sincerely Call to Him. You know what's in your heart and God does - no one else. If it is sincere, I swear to you one day - sooner or later - you'll get a response that you never expected. Everything about your life will make sense and you'll know exactly why the answer came then and not before or after. You'll thank Him all the time for all the things that you today think are calamities. I swear to you IT is unbelievably "too good to be true" until you get it. God-willing we'll talk about this one day when you know exactly what I just said here.
ReplyDeletePeace be upon all those who are seeking the truth.
BTW God is not a "father figure." If that's your conception of God I'm sorry but that's just reflective of a need for a real father which unfortunately you didn't have (as you say).
ReplyDeleteIs that right, Jonarsewad? You're just a "genius" in the making, aren't you? /s
Delete"It is a tragic reality that many people never experience the solid, positive presence of a loving father. This lack of fatherly influence and care has deep ramifications for life, including how we interact with others, raise our own children, and understand God as Father. But God promised that he would not leave us orphans, that everyone who believes becomes an adopted son or daughter of a loving Father in heaven.Ed McGlasson shares his personal experience of having lost his own father before he was born. With deep conviction and strong encouragement, he invites hurting people to take heart and have hope in their heavenly Father who loves them, blesses them, and will never leave them. Readers will take away a new sense of purpose, identity, and value that they have been searching for their whole lives." "Father You've Always Wanted: How God Heals Your Father Wounds" (Ed Tandy McGlasson)
"The Genetic Gods: Evolution and Belief in Human Affairs" (John C. Avise)
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcQK389zgIxucwTSmC4N7tV-PE7jc2yUF9FLZTAi_Djurt0QW5fgvebu6gAta-s&usqp=CAE
People are getting on with their lives.
ReplyDeleteThis is Sociopath World. Not Discuss Islam With Jonaid World. But there's an idea for you.
You could use the time you spend in caricatures to "discuss Islam with Jonaid" instead. If not one would expect you to ignore me completely and get on with your life. "But there's an idea for you."
ReplyDeleteCaricatures? Do you think my previous posts are about you? Do you think this community sprung up overnight to entertain your ideas?
DeleteThere are far more interesting topics than Islam for my mind (although religion is important to some here.)
I repeat: Sociopath World. Not Jonaid World.
I told you I'd call you on your bullshit. That's what I'm doing. I like it here and will continue to point out where you unjustly shut down the open nature of the conversation.
Rawr! You're hot when you unsheath your claws, North. ;)
Delete"I repeat. Sociopath World. Not Jonaid World"
^This literally made me lol. :D
She's right, Jihadi.
I am also fed up of talking about religion.
But not so much that I won't call you on your proselytizing, because I think Islam is one of the most destructive influences in the world today.
"But there's an idea for you."
DeleteReally? Well, let’s get to it, then. Let’s discuss Islam with you, but in MY way.
Who is being a master and slave on this site, you, who-should-be-named Jonarsewad! The answer to your scatter-brained assumption is simple: no one. The scatological Jihadi messages that you are trying to spread (as clearly differentiated from eschatological, that is) are nothing but LITTER. As you know, those who litter get fined, and quite heavily, too.
Now, akin to a GOD, I can be both generous/light and wrathful, which means that you don’t want to experience my WRATH! Trust me on that, Jonarsewad.
That description of Jesus' visiting you has now completely given you away. You and your gang are pretty desperate. I must say you're good at being servile but are incredibly stupid in everything else. Like I said psychopathy - in your case outright Devil worship - has destroyed your mind.
ReplyDeleteYou probably actually think you've fooled people here. Just wait and see. You'll need new IDs eventually. God sees - you know where you're headed.
"...has now completely given you away. You and your gang are pretty desperate. I must say you're good at being servile but are incredibly stupid in everything else....
DeleteYou probably actually think you've fooled people here. Just wait and see. You'll need new IDs eventually..."
And you were saying, Jihadi-Jonarsewad?
Anonymous December 2, 2015 at 6:36 AM
"I might qualify as one. I am super sensative.
At the age of 12, as a reaction to a humilating social incident, I avoided most
unnecessary social contacts. I thought it was just a passing faze, but year after
year went by. I lost the ability to comfortably relate to people and deport myself
properly, whether it be grooming or other social graces. An insecure "creep"
another words.
I am the butt of all jokes. (Bored people need a scapegoat) and have recieved
only intermitantly kind treatment from very rare non-judgmental people.
Unfortunately, occassional "missions" are unavoidable, and I must walk among
people that I am sure to offend. They assume they are dealing with an unwanted
retarded person, and that certainly is the case in the social sphere.
The only thing I can do is to overlook the slights and rude treatment and be
polite and civil. To do anything else is to offend all the more. It doesn't pay for a
person in my position to be an "injustice collector" and stew about these things.
If a person is to frightened of death, then they are condemned to "life."
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteSo... Psychopathy has destroyed *my* mind? Let's evaluate the latest in your perpetual string of asinine statements, shall we?
DeleteA personal encounter with Jesus that changed my life for the better, and stopped me from continuing along a path that almost certainly would have ended in a pathetic spiral of destruction, means that I am a DEVIL WORSHIPPER. Yet it is *YOU* who uses your own holy book to threaten others with hellfire.
The fact that a genetic predisposition and abusive environment fostered the development of my sociopathic personality traits means that I'm a DEMON. But *YOU'RE* the one describing an evil presence in your room due to "sleep paralysis".
The fact that I am vulgar is evidence that my mind has been destroyed... That I am some sort of heathen so far beneath you that you refuse to even discuss the matter with me.
But it is *YOU* who apologize for the disgusting vulgarity manifested by your own FALSE prophet.
Is it not VULGAR for grown men to have sex with a 9 year old little girl, Jihadi? Is it not VULGAR to command your followers to chop off the heads of dissenters? And yet, you claim that *MY* mind is destroyed?
It is *YOU* who strains at gnats whilst swallowing whole caravans of Mohammed's camels.
It is *YOU* who is so brainwashed that you call good evil, and evil good.
You like quotes. Here's a good one for you:
"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter." (Isa 5:20)
You say that I would quiver and fear you if we were to meet? Wrong again, Fatwah. What a piss poor judge of character you are. (And that's ok. It works to my advantage.)
I would look you straight in the eyes with my own piercing baby blues, and say EXACTLY what I have been saying to you all along. And if you laid a hand on me, I'd strike so fast that you wouldn't even know what ripped out your jugular. XD
I don't fear you, Jihadi. If I had more empathy, I might pity you. But as it stands, the best I can do is give you a virtual slap across the face, and tell you to wake the fuck up while you still have the chance.
You are correct about one thing: truth will always win out over falsehood. And by swallowing a pack of lies, you have lost: both this debate, as well as your capacity to think critically for yourself.
The war has already been won- and you picked the wrong side, moron. :P
"A" is a kind of person who would quiver and shake if she (or he) ever met any of us in person. The amount of lies and sophistry you throw out leads only to extreme cowardice - and you know that you people are cursed by God Most High. Enjoy your game - time flies.
ReplyDeleteYour scatological littering about A disgusts me as well, Joarsewad!
Delete"Why Millions Leave Islam: MUST SEE":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkeOG3sOtcI
I can imagine you gangsters in real life. Always cynical, always afraid of everything, and always faking smiles & empathy because you have no real hearts. I KNOW you are miserable inside - it says it in every word you write. Instead of taking responsibility for your actions & seeking forgiveness you keep lying to yourself and thinking you're special. Must be a horrific feeling to know that no matter how many people you think you've fooled YOU are still an empty, miserable soul. Like master like slave.
ReplyDeleteEmpty, miserable soul:
DeleteWho is being a master and slave on this site, you, who-should-be-named Jonarsewad! The answer to your scatter-brained assumption is simple: no one. The scatological Jihadi messages that you are trying to spread (as clearly differentiated from eschatological, that is) are nothing but LITTER. As you know, those who litter get fined, and quite heavily, too.
Now, akin to a GOD, I can be both generous/light and wrathful, which means that you don’t want to experience my WRATH! Trust me on that, Jonarsewad.
Did I read that right? Did Jonaid just refer to Christ as an "empty, miserable soul"???
DeleteNo, Anon. He is referring to psychopaths in general.
DeleteYou see, in Jonaidsworld, psychopaths (like me) are demons. We were never abused, and make up narratives to spread lies besmirching Mohammed. We are easy to identify because we swear, and disagree with Jonaid. Sociopaths, on the other hand, are made by way of genetic predisposition and abuse. They break down when they open up about their abuse, and magically grow empathy.
God forgives the latter, but not the former. We know this because Jonaid says it is so.
Nevermind that scientists are unable to come to a clear consensus as to precisely what differentiates and defines psychopathy, sociopathy, and ASPD. Just ignore the fact that scientists and psychologists are only just beginning to understand the genetic, epigenetic, and environmental underpinnings of the condition.
Jonaid knows all. If you have any questions, just ask him. He is our new resident expert on psychopathology. :P
Thank you for the clarification, A.:) I believe I am married to a psychopath, and I do not think he is a demon. If Jonaid was looking to convert anyone to Islam here, I think he has done the exact opposite. I am a "normal" and I swear, and disagree with Jonaid.:) I like your sense of humor, A!!! I agree that Jesus Christ is God, and he forgives anyone who will humble themselves and ask. I am surprised that everyone here is being as nice to Jonaid, as they are!!! What do you think is wrong with him???
DeleteDo you think he has a "death wish"???
DeleteI wonder if he does, since he has come to a sociopathic blog, and refuses to stop infuriating everyone!!!
DeleteIt's like he is "asking for it"!!!
DeleteI guess he really is "Jihadi Jonaid"!!! I would also like to add, that I have been more infuriated by many of the things that Jonaid is saying, than I have seen in the responses here. I have chosen not to respond to Jihadi Jonaid, however if I did, I do not think I would be as patient and nice as everyone here has, thus far. That is proof positive to me, that when the emotions of "normals" are triggered-they have the potential to speak and act in a lot worse ways, than psychopaths or sociopaths would, in the same situation...
DeleteProof positive, as well, that psychopaths and sociopaths are not demons any more than "normals" are. Not that I needed proof. I believe Jonaid came here in the hope to recruit the sociopaths of the world, to his cause. The idea was a good one, but I believe Jonaid has failed miserably. Jonaid has either not accepted this, or he is choosing to continue on, to infuriate all of the sociopaths on this blog. It is a passive-agressive reaction to his "loss". It is probably also a way to "get at" sociopaths, since he has had bad experiences with some, and most likely cannot "get back" at them. This could be on a conscious or subconscious level...
DeleteWhere are Mr. Hyde and Parnasse???
DeleteWow, A. You blow me away :D
DeleteI'm responding to your replies... busy at work today.
"Where are Mr. Hyde and Parnasse???"
DeleteI've been wondering, too
Hi North!!! I hope I blow you away, in a good way.:) I have chosen not to respond to Jonaid as that would be giving him my power, but I certainly do not have a problem with anyone, who wishes to respond to him.:)
DeleteMr. Hyde and Parnasse would be very helpful, on this one!!!
DeleteAnon, thank you for sharing your perspective. It's helpful to me :)
Delete"That is proof positive to me, that when the emotions of "normals" are triggered-they have the potential to speak and act in a lot worse ways, than psychopaths or sociopaths would, in the same situation..."
I agree. And it's been my experience too. I did very callous things when wounded.
It has been difficult sometimes to restrain myself with Jonaid. From the start, when he was insulting psychopaths, I wanted to call him on it but thought it was for others - specifically for A - to do this. He was A's meat from the start and I'm glad I waited. She's the alpha for a reason.
This is a very special place - open, non-judgmental and exploratory. Jonaid threatened that and I wanted to fight him. I wanted to be sure my voice counted. It's been a powerful growth experience for me, developing my voice.
I have also said horrible things, when wounded. When people are wounded, they will "lash out", just as an animal would, to protect themselves. It is a form of self-protection-our instinct for survival. It has been difficult for me to restrain myself with Jonaid, as well. "A" has done a superb job-she is an AWESOME ALPHA!!! You go, girl!!! North, Gardel, Superchick, a lot of "Anons"-job well done!!! This is a very special place, and I do not like him threatening that, either!!! North, your voice ABSOLUTELY COUNTS!!! Everyone's voice counts here-even Jonaid's. Everyone has been very patient with him, and asked him on many occasions to "cease and desist" on this one. I have to admit, that I would enjoy seeing "A", Mr. Hyde, and Parnasse "tag team" Jonaid into submission!!!
DeletePS North-I am glad this has been a powerful growth experience for you, and that you are developing your voice!!!
DeleteSo it seems I've either managed to somehow irk a whole host of psychos here or a few who are posting using different names (including anonymous) to put forth a false image of me as an arrogant, conceited, close-minded psycho hater. I'm flattered - I take it as a good sign - that those with sick hearts are losing it. Keep it guys it will end eventually and we'll see who was honest and who was dishonest. Now to a few points mentioned so as to not let any sincere reader remain in doubt:
DeleteI have made it clear again and again my views on psychopathy. I do not attack any person's inner, true nature or their natural disposition nor do I hold anyone accountable for all the wrongs they may committed. What I do attack is deliberate (knowing full well what is right, what is wrong and having no compulsion) deception, cheating, misuse, fraud and destruction of other human beings. "Psychopath" and "Sociopath" are modern terms used by psychiatrists which no one has a clear definition. I clearly defined how I use them and will do so again for the sincere reader (with some additional clarifications):
Psychopath: the extreme ends of the empathy spectrum. Psychos are nearly, if not entirely, void of any empathy and are driven purely by their ego, their own desires to aggrandize themselves, their arrogance & pride. No doubt many, if not all, of these characters are what traditionally were called "Devils." These people certainly deserve HELL and that is what the Quran says. I have never claimed that all psychopaths are hell-bound. I have no right to say a thing. All I said is that those who commit major evils knowingly and refuse to repent in their lifetime are - we are told by God - bound to go to Hell. Their ultimate fate, however, remains unknown to anyone but their Creator Himself.
Sociopath: Individuals who are actively functioning with minimal empathy but still maintain a level of humanity within them. I suspect these individuals are people either inherited the predisposition to sociopathy or environmental factors (i.e. upbringing, relationship troubles etc) and thus the ultimate source of their wrongdoings is in effect a RESULT of wrong done to them - NOT rooted primarily in their own pride and arrogance.
It should be noted that there is a MAJOR difference in my opinion between the two but that difference is a matter of INTENTION. No one knows your intentions ultimately except God and you. People can and should judge only by what appears on the outside via actions and words. If I judged anyone here it was based solely on the totality of their remarks. If I was wrong I've already apologized and will do so again and will again if I have to but I don't think I have been wrong thus far. If a certain someone has been driven to sociopathy by childhood trauma - unless your trauma came from Muhammad you have no justification to rail against him. It's just a strong hint that you're bashing him and using your story (real or fake) to justify it.
Here's irony for you: psychos angry at me for being hurt because I say "infuriating" things about psychopathy. Shouldn't you have your emotions in check? Oh wait so there is a limit for you too? You're hurt when YOUR kind - the sick and evil and the basest of humanity - are called out in a GENERIC way. If I call liars liars that hurts you so I should stop? This is the definition of arrogance: when you start thinking that THAT will work as a strategy. People believe you because they don't want to believe people can lie like this - NOT because they're fooled or stupid. That's why when you're "outed" you run away instead of mounting a defense.
DeleteThank you for the subtle threats also. No I'm not asking for it but I'm no coward and will not hide myself from actual cowards. I use my actual name because I want readers to be able to distinguish those of us who are sincere and open and those who have ulterior agendas.
I was not afraid of cowards when I was an atheist. How that I believe in God as the sole Guardian & Protector you think I'll be afraid of some psychos like you?
Time will expose this game of yours.
Here is another phenomenon I observed with the sociopaths (I hope they're sociopaths and not psychopaths) that I observed in my life:
DeleteThey have latent in them the potential to do amazing in certain fields. Each is different of course - just like all of us. What they appear to be doing is USE that side of them to manipulate and use others instead of legitimately using themselves and toiling towards a real goal. When they meet someone intelligent they likely assume they're like them (because intelligent people have to be like them otherwise they're stupid) until disagreements occur. Sociopaths seem to hate a disagreement when they may be wrong - I mean REALLY hate it. Truth doesn't matter it's "why are you right and I'm wrong? you must be a cleverer liar than me."
When I was ignorant I saw them and overlooked the obvious flaws as a result of insecurities which time will correct. I never judged them (judging is to actually think lesser of someone) but I was - perhaps more blunt than I should have been - always clear about what I thought. They hated me even more and accused me of their own disease: arrogance. After the fact - and they know they're wrong - instead of admitting their wrongs and helping ease the pain they caused, they lie to themselves and others and justify their actions. To them now their victims - who by all objective standards were smarter and acted appropriately - are now stupid and deluded and have agendas.
How a mind chooses to remain ignorant for the sake of arrogance is beyond me. I can understand that it makes them feel better but how do you NOT see the long term result of that? How do you not see your impending destruction, eventually, when things break apart? Who will help you then except the very people you hate?
God I wish so much that they'd grow an actual brain instead of lying to themselves. It's all the more tragic because they DON'T have to behave in these ways - they don't believe in themselves so they make a fake version of themselves. Why not trust someone else? Why not trust God?
No but alas they've sold themselves for a low price. For satisfaction of their basest desires. You're being played but you think you're independent and special. Use your reason if you still can and come back to reality. I tried to go there but God saved me. He saved me because He knew I was a victim of the devil's scheme - NOT arrogant like the others.
DeleteHello to every one out here,
ReplyDeleteMy name is Daniela Gomez, I live in United Kingdom, My husband and I have been married for about 6 yrs now. We were happily married with two kids, a boy and a girl. 3 months ago, I started to notice some strange behavior from him and a few weeks later I found out that my husband is seeing someone. He started coming home late from work, he hardly care about me or the kids anymore, Sometimes he goes out and doesn't even come back home for about 2-3 days. I did all I could to rectify this problem but all to no avail. I became very worried and needed help. As I was browsing through the internet one day, I came across a website that suggested that Dr Frank Ojo can help solve marital problems, restore broken relationships and so on. So, I felt I should give him a try. I contacted him and he did a spell for me. Three days later, my husband came to me and apologized for the wrongs he did and promise never to do it again. Ever since then, everything has returned back to normal. I and my family are living together happily again.. All thanks to Dr Frank Ojo . If you need a spell caster that can cast a spell that truly works, I suggest you contact him. He will not disappoint you. if you have any problem contact him, I give you 100% guarantee that he will help you, This is his details
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Mobile number +2348072370762.
Thank you
all for reading.
A , I fuckeen love you. I resonate with everything you said.
ReplyDeleteAw. Thanks, Chiquita. I'm glad you were able to pick out some diamonds from all that crude, vulgar coal. ;)
DeleteDitto! We've finally found the secessor to M.E.
ReplyDeleteHer analysis of Christianity is spot on.
She is a GEM! And no towel head POS must touch her!
Copy and paste the same msg
DeleteCW stands for christian woman. And based on ur religious postings u r def a CW
DeleteCopy n paste
DeleteDear M.E. Thomas,
ReplyDeleteI've been doing some google research, but I'm somewhat stuck. I've been trying to find out whether my hypothesis: "Maladaptive personality disorders can manifest through substance abuse" holds any truth. According to anecdotal "evidence" from numerous sources and my own experiences this hypothesis is true, however, I was unable to discern whether this is true from a scientific point of view.
Research has shown that indeed psychopathy, anti-social personality disorder and sociopathy have what is called a "co-morbidity" link to substance abuse. I was unable to find out whether the affected people possessed maladaptive personality traits before the substance abuse or whether those manifested after the drug abuse though. A certain gene, namely the DRD4 receptor gene, appears to play a significant role in this scenario, but from what I've read it seems to show up whenever people "suffer" from both addiction AND psychopathy and it does not explain whether addiction/substance abuse could be a precursory breeding ground for developing maladaptive personality traits.
Discuss Islam with Jonarsewad?
ReplyDeleteThe answer to that is an emphatic and wrathful NO! Why? Because "Islam is Dying." Let's watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f92Nx4u-SMQ
M.E. and other sincere observers please note:
ReplyDelete1) True psychos do NOT reveal their narratives - particularly their "troubled' pasts. A true traumatic experience is hidden away by people. The real psychos - Devils - do not have any real traumatic experiences but are in fact driven by their hubris. That's why they're not feigning all these sad stories. Anyone who's ever been truly traumatized has far more empathy - particularly when they finally confront their own experiences.
2) One of these "anonymous" - real or fake - said something about them being too lost / sinful to turn to God. A sincerely individual feeling remorse would likely FEEL that but they would NEVER actually despair of God's mercy. They would feel horrible inside and actually ask for His mercy - more than they need to perhaps. What they would NEVER do is say that they are beyond God's grace or mercy. In Islam it is actually forbidden to despair of God's mercy. What arrogance again to think that you could commit so much evil in a finite life lasting a few decades that you are not officially unforgivable EVEN IF YOU REPENT SINCERELY. God says He forgives ANYONE if they repent sincerely within their life - NOT when death is imminent and the Truth is evident.
"And say: Truth hath come and falsehood hath vanished away. Lo! falsehood is ever bound to vanish." --- Qur'an Chapter 17:81
There are a lot of people who think or feel that they are too lost and/or sinful to turn to God. With Christ, no one is ever too lost and/or sinful to be saved. Christ is AWESOME!!!
DeletePaul was a perfect example. He murdered Christians, and was later saved. He also wrote a large portion of The Bible. Jesus is The Creator, The Answer, and The Savior...
DeleteJJ "The real psychos - Devils - do not have any real traumatic experiences but are in fact driven by their hubris. That's why they're not feigning all these sad stories. Anyone who's ever been truly traumatized has far more empathy - particularly when they finally confront their own experiences."
DeleteFalse, on both counts. Again. The pain that some traumas leave behind is literally unspeakable. And many 'regular' people who've been traumatized become hardened, not softened.
Your intolerant demonizing of socios appears truly unmerciful. Do you really believe that they are incapable of suffering?
Don't answer that, please. I won't reply. *Yawns, sips wine and lights a joint.*
A and North have far more patience and wit to put up with your self-righteous rants than I do.
Besides, I'm also trying to 'keep' my lovely shaggy head.
I suspect that your sword is far sharper than your pen.
Mr. Hyde
Mr. Hyde I'm sorry that you misread my post. I made a clear distinction between psychopaths and sociopaths. Please reread and re-post any disagreements you may still have if you really want an honest dialogue.
DeleteWhat's with the "sips wine and lights a joint" add-in? Is this supposed to be "showing off" or an attempt to make me jealous some how? I've done that plenty and can easily now. God gave me something no drug or intoxicant can and I don't have to buy or ingest or inhale or smoke anything. Try that for a change and see if you'll want to sip and smoke again.
Thank you.
"Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of God: for God forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
ReplyDeleteQur'an 39:53
Apologies I meant to say "that's why they ARE feigning all these sad stories" -- not "they're not feigning..." in the first post above.
ReplyDelete"1) True psychos do NOT reveal their narratives - particularly their "troubled' pasts. A true traumatic experience is hidden away by people. The real psychos - Devils - do not have any real traumatic experiences but are in fact driven by their hubris. That's why they're not feigning all these sad stories. Anyone who's ever been truly traumatized has far more empathy - particularly when they finally confront their own experiences. "
ReplyDeleteMy apologies I think I had too much coffee today and allowed this to go without proof reading. Here is what I meant to say:
"Sociopaths" - people who've been traumatized into shutting off their empathy - do NOT share their true stories as it hurts them too much (that's precisely WHY they became "sociopaths"). When they do finally share them they are by default more empathetic - not vulgar and arrogant like the fakers are here. The REAL psychos - the devils and their minions - have no true trauma or history of abuse. They are just exceedingly arrogant and cannot fathom living a decent, moral life if it means nothing extraordinary for them. These are the ones that go to the extreme depths of obscenity and evil for their agenda. It should be apparent to anyone following me and them closely.
Jihadi Jon said:
DeleteIf by "religion of peace" you mean tolerance of outright evil than no it is certainly not a religion of peace. Islam roots out the base elements and forces them to keep to their limits or face severe punishment. It does not even pretend to be a pacifist religion."
^And here, you your true colors.
It isn't VULGAR to advocate cutting off the heads of devils who offend you... Like me?
It wasn't OBSCENE for Mohammed to rape a 9 year old girl?
His behaviors are justified, and I am the devil incarnate for bringing them up?
You are such a coward that you *will not even address me directly*, but I would tremble if I faced you in real life?
Hahaha!
Keep digging that hole, Jihadi. I've already demonstrated how you are ripe for radicalization, and in response you said... "peace, peace!"... But I've exposed your taquiyaa, and look what came out to play. :D
And I will continue to do so, gleefully.
Peek-a-boo, I SEE you, motherfucker! XD
Put that in your pipe and smoke it. :P
This is precisely way you are not normalising here and we reject you.
ReplyDeleteThis IS a safe place for us to share our stories and grow. A has said this. Superchick has said it. I say it.
In you swan, brandishing your sword. Anyone who disagrees with you is labelled a psycho. And now you equate psycho with Devil.
Tell me: does Allah save Jinn? What does the qu'ran say?
You appoint yourself God's arbiter and judge. On what ground? In Syria? Islamic State just threw a gay couple from a rooftop. And you claim YOU know the TRUTH.
Go jump in the lake.
You can read what the Qur'an says in the chapter entitled "The Jinn." Here's a direct link if you are serious:
Deletehttp://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/072-qmt.php
The concept of "saving" is a Christian understanding. Islam does not see mankind as inherently doomed and in need of saving. Adam's "sin" was not blown out of proportion as it is in the Bible. Mankind is to grow here on Earth. We are by default "saved" but some ultimately doom themselves by their deeds and words. The same goes for the Jinn.
What "muslims" do - or indeed any group of people does - is independent of what an world-view states. It may reflect it, it may diverge from it, or it be more nuanced (which is almost always the case). It is simply illogical and unscientific to deduce that if 0.01% (to be liberal) of a group behaves in horrific ways IN THE NAME OF ITS IDEOLOGY therefore the ideology must be evil.
DeleteDuck. Weave.
Delete"I swear by the One who saved my life".
Saved. Your words.
"to deduce that if 0.01% (to be liberal) of a group behaves in horrific ways IN THE NAME OF ITS IDEOLOGY therefore the ideology must be evil."
Who said this?
Try again.
If yours is the truth it ought to consistently and without aggravation handle any perspective offered. At the moment, your arguments have more holes than a sieve.
Datapoints.
I really can't be bothered with this anymore. Your arguments are flawed and boring and you don't even try to make them account for reality.
I always like reading interesting content and your blog surpasses my expectations every time.really very relevant writing performance.
ReplyDeleteHOW I GOT MY HUSBAND BACK AFTER HE LEFT ME FOR ANOTHER WOMAN..!!
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Very Interesting Me. Classic Stoicism places importance on duty to the state and that's just not my style. Meditations is no doubt a gem but Epicurus shows a different style to the same philosophy. Keep walking with the General in the Gardens ME.
ReplyDelete