I remember being teenage age or maybe early college and hearing for the first time that homeless people aren't necessarily homeless because of some personal failings of theirs, but just that their particular society has excluded them out of necessity. The reasoning is that any society develops in largely arbitrary ways -- valuing certain attributes and devaluing others, having certain types of traditions or laws and rights or not. (Jonathan Haidt has done a lot of work on these different moral universes). If the entirety of humanity spans such a wide spectrum of variation, it's basically impossible to construct a society that could incorporate and use absolutely everyone's strengths. There will be winners and losers and any structure that you could come up with, but a lot of the selection of winners and losers is influenced by chance -- in obvious ways in our modern western society like owning property that turns out to have gold, being born to rich parents, being able to bilk naive natives out of their land by trading them worthless trinkets, etc. but also in less obvious ways like your culture being one in which ownership of land is recognized (or not) or in which gold is considered valuable (or not) or parental wealth is able to pass to children via inheritance laws and tradition. People are always going to slip through the cracks, even though it might have been just as likely that another society would have developed instead in which the losers and winners would have flipped flopped (I think of somewhat examples of this in the French Revolution and the Cultural Revolution and which cultural values, priorities, and legal entitlements were changed basically overnight).
I agree with the theory now, but I wonder if I would have come to the same conclusions by myself. I also wonder, do most normal people understand this to be true? That so much of our life successes and failures are determined by forces beyond our control? That the winners only get there by climbing over the backs of others? Or is it more difficult for them to step outside the structure of their cultural paradigms to see how precarious, unpredictable, random, and likely inequitable their status in society is.
But this is what I thought about when I saw this somewhat recent comment:
Structure, society, uniformity, they serve a purpose. They aren't for everyone, and I think specifically work better for people who's fear sensors are in working order (over working even?) in order to give a sense of structure and stability, in a somewhat chaotic world. The problem with the structure is that it alienates otherwise good people who don't believe in the structure. Which I don't think there's anything wrong with believing (or not believing) in the structure.
Is that what this is about?
Happy new year, SW!
ReplyDeleteYou stole this idea from me. The knock you hear on your door is the person about to hand you a subpoena. See you in 2016 court on January 2nd.
ReplyDeleteRadical, when will you bless us with longer posts?
DeleteThe homeless, destitute, beggars, orphans, the sick etc etc will always exist - the only thing that changes is the percentage of the population they represent and the severity of their misfortunes. A homeless person in USA is still better off than one in Africa. As someone with an intrinsic grasp of numerics I know this is an inevitability in ALL systems, not just human economies. However, Humans have the potential to undo this by simply being charitable. Yes the rich will exist and mostly because they're lucky and vice versa for the poor. The real question is why their abundance of wealth prevents them (mostly) to tacle poverty. Billionaires can remain Billionaires and still eradicate homelessness in the world if they wanted - numerically it's a fact. Most people - especially the rich - just don't want to. That is the question to ask: why?
ReplyDelete"The problem with the structure is that it alienates otherwise good people who don't believe in the structure."
If you're a "good" person who doesn't believe in structure you should opt out instead of ruining it for those who don't mind it. Yet that rarely happens. Sociopaths don't make their "non-structures" or go to the jungle - they stick around to corrupt the structure everyone else is fine with. Again the real question is WHY?
Deep down we know the answer to both.
You've mangled the commenter's meaning to suit your agenda there.
DeleteInteresting.
DeleteGreat post. Jonathan Haidt's done some good stuff on the college campus /Social Justice Warriors trend that M.E also mentioned recently.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj5QmZPzvlQ
I was 7 years of age when I realized there is a higher system which I can't control directly but utilize by applying or violating certain unwritten rules and got the hang of it at about 12. At age 14 I came to realize that most, if not all so-called normal people are incapable of grasping even the most sketchy idea of there being a system evolved out of random variables.
ReplyDeleteI was somewhat disappointed they couldn't understand, but then I understood. It's a blessing a curse to look behind the facade of society.
~NM
I love this idea NM.
DeleteI mean, I don't go around violating rules but I do like to try different methods beyond the established processes or rules. It's a pragmatic way to test how things operate: reverse-engineering an emerged system to feel its depth and breadth.
"I was somewhat disappointed they couldn't understand, but then I understood. It's a blessing a curse to look behind the facade of society."
Perhaps this is a salve:
"The more powerful and original a mind, the more it will incline towards the religion of solitude." ~ @pen_named on Twitter
And actually, I think most people feel disconnected. They feel they've traded their individuality for acceptance in the group. And that is, to a degree, required in the implicit social contract. Most people simply aren't aware of why they've done this: a blessing and curse in itself.
Hi North, long time no see.
DeleteWith "violating unwritten rules" I mean all facets of rules, not only the important or obvious ones, but also things like letting people finish a sentence when I've got something to say, not changing the topic every few sentences, changing the subject when the other tries to do so, not staring at them aggressively to get a seat on the bus, using or don't using certain words out of courtesy, to name just a few. There are uncountable more, all of which can be used in a way to influence reactions or the course of events.
I find it funny how some people follow all these rules seemingly by instinct, without wasting a single thought on what to do in what situation. It used to drive me mad, since I couldn't figure out the correct algorythm - but that's a long, long time ago. I've made my peace with it, and actually, I'm happy about the knowledge I've gained by mistake.
I agree that most people feel disconnected, though in a different way than I do - which makes up for the difficulties explaining my situation to most people. They automatically assume I've got the same problem as they have after hearing a few keywords, and shut off the possibility that I could have meant something else. It has been quite frustrating for me to lead such discussions, so I simply decided not to talk about certain topics with certain people. Problem solved.
I thank you for your compassion, but it's wasted on me.
~NM
"With "violating unwritten rules" I mean all facets of rules, not only the important or obvious ones, but also things like letting people finish a sentence when I've got something to say, not changing the topic every few sentences, changing the subject when the other tries to do so, not staring at them aggressively to get a seat on the bus, using or don't using certain words out of courtesy, to name just a few. There are uncountable more, all of which can be used in a way to influence reactions or the course of events."
DeleteVery interesting because it's so foreign to me. I like to read these things because it shows me what I take for granted. Thanks.
I was thinking more along the lines of using alternate communication channels and redefining problems. :)
"I thank you for your compassion, but it's wasted on me."
Indeed! Ah, it was a salve to me. Perhaps the dangers of generalisation are really dawning on me today.
" I was thinking more along the lines of using alternate communication channels and redefining problems. :) "
DeleteWell, that's part of what I meant with "using the system". Actually, my main every-day focus lies on finding the optimal way to communicate with strangers and not get into a situation which would be to my disadvantage, another high priority task is to solve problems of all kinds - the bigger the better. ;)
Generalisation is something I despise - yet I didn't realise I did it all the time until a few years ago. I have since been perplexed many times by how often I still fall for it.
I guess that's just how our brains are wired - it's the easiest way of thinking.
~NM
"another high priority task is to solve problems of all kinds - the bigger the better. ;)"
DeleteNothing like complexity to get the blood pumping. At least for me :)
"I guess that's just how our brains are wired - it's the easiest way of thinking."
Yes, I agree. Shortcuts. The brain makes them all the time and in all contexts. In fact, a Georgia Tech study has shown we need less than 1% of original information to categorise data:
'Researchers at Georgia Tech discovered that humans can categorize data using less than 1 percent of the original information, and validated an algorithm to explain human learning -- a method that also can be used for machine learning, data analysis and computer vision.
"How do we make sense of so much data around us, of so many different types, so quickly and robustly?" said Santosh Vempala, Distinguished Professor of Computer Science at the Georgia Institute of Technology and one of four researchers on the project. "At a fundamental level, how do humans begin to do that? It's a computational problem."'
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/12/151215160649.htm
Shortcuts make the world go round, but perhaps not so smoothly as might be possible.
" Nothing like complexity to get the blood pumping. At least for me :) "
DeleteFor me it's more that I can't seem to "work" at my full potential when there's nothing on stake.
Thank you a lot for the article, a very interesting read!
~NM
Must be worth investment! I can understand that.
DeleteMy pleasure, I'm happy you enjoyed it.
Some people care more about social status than others. For example there are artists that choose to do art even if it means that they must live in poverty and/or outside the societal norms. Religious people, writers, philosophers etc have been doing that throughout history.
ReplyDeleteSome people are motivated by money – earning lots of it. I'm personally not. I care about money because by having enough I can afford the lifestyle I enjoy having. I like to have a beautiful home, healthy and tasty food, enough money to travel and buy equipment I need to work in my profession etc. But I don't care about status for the sake of it.
If I lost all my money I would probably try to find cheap but still beautiful place to live in and do what I do without all the expensive equipment.
I just read this quote, and think it speaks to the topic: It is only with the heart that one can see clearly; what is essential is invisible to the eye.
ReplyDeleteAntoine de Saint-Exupery, The Little Prince
DeleteA beautiful book, one of my childhood favorites.
DeleteLove the quote. Thanks for sharing.
Mr. Hyde
Anon 12:36-You are absolutely correct!!! Thank you, for your contribution.:)
ReplyDeleteThanks for the quote - it's a superb book!
DeleteI think most normal people are unaware of it, and/or that those most of those whom the structure favours will believe in the structure.
ReplyDeleteM.E.
ReplyDeleteIt's an interesting model. I agree society develops in arbitrary ways, and that the resulting structures reflect, to a degree, the value systems of those holding power (as your examples illustrate.)
I say to an extent because there will always be competing tensions and priorities within a social group, always factions of sorts, always compromises. Power seeks control of resources and investment decision-making - but it's a dynamic balance with the interests of groups that might destabilise power.
So naturally, not everyone will be catered for in any particular system. And here we can draw on normalisation theory again - those not flexible enough to normalise will suffer.
I was speaking just yesterday with a friend about the value of adaptability and of flow. His idea is that the measure of a man is how he performs under pressure. We have very flexible minds and can adapt quickly to new environments. The extent to which we adapt to new social settings is a strong factor in how we derive and contribute benefit in that system.
There are a range of human personalities. Some are more conservative - I mean specifically that they seek to preserve stability in existing institutions and are law abiding. Some are more progressive and seek to take advantage of new opportunities or to tackle novel problems through systemic change. Then you have anarchist personalities and groups like Anonymous. And there are those who see themselves on the fringe of society, or as not belonging to any specific group. I'm sure I heard this somewhere recently (I was listening to a bunch of good podcasts so can't recall the source) you know that even ants will have different personality tendencies.
I see all these groups interacting dynamically with the power bases. It's characteristic of our species AND I imagine, of others: this continual play for control of resources and power in investment. It's convenient for those in power to label themselves "good" and their opponents "evil"... I'll be honest, I have despised this dichotomy since childhood. I couldn't stand those American cartoons which tended to caricature this theme and I hated in religion as being completely unjust - as not even meeting it's own criteria.
So, adaptability is one important trait for survival both for those with power and those without, but *particularly* for those without. I'm gonna give a really simple example of how this plays out. I'm a consultant and I can spend from 3 weeks to 8 months+ with a client. I have limited power in these organisations, but I *can* have considerable influence *if and only if* I adapt to their context. I was kinda explaining my adaptability to my socio ex one day and he got all sulky with me "I adapt every day!" I didn't say he didn't - but of course, I wasn't aware then about the extent to which he does adapt.
Which brings me to the point: sociopaths (at least the high functioning ones) have this amazing tool in their kitbag of adaptability and it allows them to derive and contribute benefit (think again: there's always a tradeoff between the two OR the overhead of finding a new group from which to simply take benefit... I don't know the mechanics of it, perhaps you can inform me.)
And now: there are times to adapt and there are times to challenge. And again, the decision is probably a risk-reward calculation; with risk appetite playing a role. But the types of value changes M.E. cites in her post are difficult to make... it's a matter of whether or not we can consider our investment in previous values and systems as sunk costs, or whether we see too much disadvantage for ourselves and our immediate circle in the new system.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought." ~ Matsuo Bashō
DeleteAdaptability.
This almost reminds me of my confused state a few months ago. I say almost because I was confused but not irrational and nonsensical to the point of coming with up such "creative" outlooks as your own. Well maybe a little when I really lost it.
DeleteTry being adaptable in your driving habits and see how that turns out. Logic and reason apply all across the board - your fancy opinions are only confusing you and others here needlessly. You don't need to impress people with nonsense to be genuinely cared for and loved - this actually does the opposite.
"If thou obeyedst most of those on earth they would mislead thee far from God's way. They follow naught but an opinion, and they do but guess."
QUR'AN 6:116
Adapt to problems and novel situations. This is not rocket science.
DeleteLife appears rather cheap nowadays in western civilization, often "dices" decides if there´s going to be food on the table or not, if somebody will be "slave or master"? If everything work against a person, its almost like that persons role in society is to serve as an "warning exemple" for others. And most folks seems to buy the explanation that "workfare" is there to help them; they do not see it as concentration camps for the poor doomed? Most likely there´s a political "Plan", and it has to do with the robot-transformation of work which will give corporations advantages never seen before in history. Freedom of speech & democracy most likely are not parts of that Plan.
ReplyDeleteIt's going to get worse - more sociopathic. It's inevitable. The only thing we can do is try to slow it down.
DeleteThe "pressure" from the (capitalistic) robot evolution most likely will "awaken" many sleeping, unaware psychopaths? I think education(!) is very dangerous when it comes to socios: normal folks see this as the "wonderful years" of their lives, psychopaths often see this as "dog agility", and since there is no work available anymore for unschooled labour, this dangerous thing called education serves as a (unknown) "hothouse" for psychopathic people feeling trapped & chained, which "lights" those terrible inner flames of white hot hatred & rage..
DeleteAnon 6:17-I don't know if I understand, what you are saying. Are you saying psychopaths don't have degrees and now must get one for employment, and thus, we will begin to see more atrocities from them???
DeleteCapitalism is not harmful or beneficial in it of itself. It's nothing more than an open economy which would work perfectly if people were not as selfish and actually cared about others. Unfortunately the moral fiber is breaking down gradually but at a growing rate. The result is before our eyes: more greed, more selfishness, more "freedoms" to be public about everything that was once private etc etc.
DeleteThe last time I saw a therapist - a therapist I knew for 6 years and trusted - I told her that our culture is breaking down. She basically said I'm worrying needlessly and that it's just a natural progress. I said I'm very glad I was raised in a normal family environment with a mom and a dad and relative stability (at least until I got older) and I would NOT wish to be born into a single parent house or even a gay household (I'm gay...I just prefer hetero parents). Let's not pretend that a breakdown of families which is rampant and growing will not cause a massive increase in sociopathic tendencies.
All psychopaths/sociopaths-In regard to M.E.'s recent tweet: do psychiatrists and psychologists actually "turn their back on you"???
ReplyDeleteHad some shrinks trying to backstab me when I let them see my actual me. One of my shrinks was a psychopath, he actually helped me - selflessly, for the sake of solving the puzzle. All in all, shrinks are people too - they're not unerring machines or gods.
DeleteAnd yes, theoretically speaking it's discrimination - but practically speaking no one cares.
~NM
A person needs to feel like they're understood before they can be helped. If you're a sociopath it must be harder I suppose but it's very courageous of you to seek help. I'd love to work with sociopaths now but not as a "shrink." What do you think the whole idea of shrinks is? Our culture is so void of genuine empathy we need to see random strangers who study the outward manifestation of human behavior and THEN guess why a person behaves a certain way. It's horrific now that I think about it. Whatever happened to just talking to a trusted friend? A relative? Opening up and having a shoulder to cry on?
DeleteRemember no one understands you more than God and no one can help you like He can. If you haven't yet, just ask Him for help once at least. Then proceed with whatever you had planned.
Hello Jonaid,
DeleteI agree with your first sentence, the rest needs a bit more extrapolation on my part, and a bit less guessing on your part.
It's by far not "courageous" of me to "seek help" since that wasn't the case. I was forced into most of these situations.
Shrinks are to me simply what they are: People. And as such unwelcomed if they get too close without permission or invitation.
I find it horrific to guess why a person behaves a certain way and THEN study the outward manifestation of human behavior. That's the birth of uncountable errors and misunderstandings.
People still talk to trusted friends and whine on their shoulders - I've got one of these right next door, clinging to me, without letting me fuck her, every other day.
Just as a small fact; NM stands for Nihilistic Mind. I'd rather believe in numerous supernatural beings than in one almighty god, if I was to choose.
Was nice to meet you, but I doubt you can convince me to follow your religion.
~NM
NM-Have you tried telling your neighbor, that she can't talk/whine/cling to you, unless she decides she wants to have sex? I do not believe in the God Jonaid believes in. I do believe in God. Even if you choose one to believe in, there are still other supernatural beings-angels and demons...
DeleteI willingly went to a mental health therapist, if only to just run a experiment with discussing my personality in a "safe environment". It was actually a successful one; I slowly blossomed before her, I eased her into knowing all my traits, even my shallow affect/lack of genuine guilt/internalized compass of morality independent of externally defined morality, etc. She accepted everything with an open mind and without useless criticism, but constructive criticism and discussions on fleshing out more skills in using cognitive empathy for influencing and tactfully interacting with others.
DeleteShe went elsewhere for work so we no longer see each other, but we had a lot of brief but overall useful to me sessions over several months. Really it was for me to take some time to delve into the mind of the empath, a normal person, within a controlled environment. I was just taking breaks to work on being a more effective successful sociopath essentially.
ESTP Sociopath
Anon@1045,
DeleteIt's kind of a symbiosis; she spends money on me and I listen, she respects that I have strict rules and I don't hurt her if not necessary.
If she was my type I'd probably make her break up with her boyfriend and fuck her, but she isn't. It's just the way she hangs to my shoulders sometimes that make me almost forget our silent contract.
I personally don't really believe there are any kind of biblical (or other) creatures out there watching us all the time. Actually, I don't really believe in anything at all.
~NM
NM-She spends money on you? I am glad you have strict rules, and attempt not to hurt her.:) It sounds like you have interactions that work for both of you.:) You should tell her what it does, when she hangs to your shoulders. Your belief in God or lack thereof, is between you and God, in my opinion.:)
DeletePS NM-You can believe in yourself.:) There has never been a "you" before you, there is not another "you" now, and there never will be another "you". You are the only "you" there will ever be. What you say, don't say, do, and don't do matters. We all leave our "marks"...
DeleteAnon, it wouldn't change a thing if I told her, at best she would be confused - she's convinced I'm gay no matter how often I explained it to her.
Delete~NM
PSS NM-That is one of the reasons, I believe in God. The world is full of unique creations, that I do not believe could come about, from the "Big Bang" theory. I also do not believe we evolved from monkeys. If we did-where are the monkeys we evolved from? Where are the monkeys "in transition"? Why are there still monkeys? Too many questions for those theories, in my opinion. Personally, I do believe in a Higher Power, and I believe each one of us is His unique creation, made in His Image, and loved beyond measure.:) That is something AWESOME to believe in!!! For the record, when I say "His", I believe God has no gender...
DeleteNM-You should tell her.:) Would you want her to keep doing it, or to stop? It's okay if she is confused at first. She will come to understand.:)
DeleteAnon, the big-bang theory has its flaws like most theories have. And as far as the evolution theory is concerned, we didn't evolve from monkeys, we just had common ancestors like most living material on earth. The evidence can be found everywhere around you - evolution is the reason of why we're all so different from each other and yet similar in essential aspects.
DeleteHowever, you can feel free to believe whatever makes you happy. I personally have my reasons not to believe at all (in the widest sense).
I won't tell her directly, since that would ruin her pathetic image she has of me and subsequently destroy what she regards as friendship. I don't particularly care about her, and besides I'm currently trying to get a relationship with someone who actually matters to me to work. I won't risk losing him for good in exchange for a few hours of fun.
~NM
NM-You are intelligent AND wise-a RARE AND WINNING COMBINATION!!!
DeletePS NM-Good luck with the relationship, you are pursuing!!!
DeletePSS NM-It does make me happy to believe.:) The way I look at it-if I believe and get to spend eternity in an AWESOME place, what do I have to lose? On the other hand, if I don't believe and I don't get to go to the AWESOME place for eternity, I've lost everything...
DeletePSSS NM-After all, this life is but a vapor...
DeletePSSSS NM-Just so I'm clear, you believe in the "Big Bang" theory? Or, do you believe something else? I'm just curious...
DeleteThanks for the compliments, Anon.
DeleteI wish you well too.
I don't believe in the big-bang theory or in any other theory - there's only probability for me. My worldview is flexible, if something is plausible I will see it as truth for as long as there is nothing more plausible. If it gets falsified by new facts I replace it. If necessary or convenient I also employ different non-scientific theories, fate or cause and effect in an abstract fashion (eg. karma) are my most favorite.
The big-bang theory seems most but not entirely plausible to me.
I've always been inclined to think this way. ;)
~NM
NM-I am into "cause and effect", as well.:) I am a HUGE FAN of Newton's Third Law: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.:) I also believe in karma, in that what you put out into the world, comes back to you.:) Like a boomerang...
DeleteVery pragmatic, NM. Our brains are statistical machines - I like to feed mine with experiential data and allow it to work its magic rather than consciously impose any particular model upon it. Of course, this is more a process of unlearning :)
DeleteAnon: I've enjoyed reading your perspective here too.
Anon,
DeleteI like to use karma for explaining to myself why to do or not to do certain things to people and back it up with effect and cause thinking. :)
I haven't viewed Newton's laws in a different context than Physics until now, thank you for this new perspective.
North,
I do pretty much the same. I love to lean back and watch my brain figuring out stuff in a much shorter time than I could have done by actively processing data. Haven't thought about it in terms of unlearning though.
~NM
NM,
DeleteI always enjoy those lightbulb moments when my brain presents me with a solution. Then comes the process of structuring it in a communicable way.
Unlearning is required for me as I spent most of my life applying cultural rules *before* exploring my personal response. It's a reversal to the healthier process of exploring my personal - subconscious, conscious and physical - synthesis of a situation and then contextualising my behavioural response.
I suppose I am creating new pathways rather than unlearning, in fact.
NM-Karma is a good way to decide what to do/not to do to people, as is cause and effect thinking.:) The concept of "do to others as you would have them do to you", is one I use a lot.) I find that principles, such as Newton's Law, can be applied in a variety of contexts.:) You are more than welcome, for the new perspective!!!
DeletePS NM-If you are able to discern what is wrong with Jonaid, please enlighten the rest of us!!! Thank You!!!
DeletePSS-I know what "NM" stands for, but my mind always goes first to "New Mexico".:) Just thought I'd share that irrelevant tidbit.:)
DeleteAnon,
Delete"If you are able to discern what is wrong with Jonaid, please enlighten the rest of us!!! Thank You!!!"
As soon as I can I will. I've got an (rather vague) idea, but need to figure it out more. Stay tuned. ;)
I've never been to New Mexico, or anywhere outside Europe by that matter. Funny tidbit tho.
I've got a G+ account, actually. I'm currently not at home though, hence I chose to write under Anonymous.
~NM
NM-You are our "New Hope"!!! I have had a few ideas myself.:) All tactics have failed, thus far. I will stay tuned!!! I've actually never been to New Mexico, either, but hope to someday!!! I LOVE TO TRAVEL!!! THAT IS AWESOME YOU LIVE IN EUROPE!!! I have only had the pleasure of traveling to France, Luxembourg, Germany, England, Ireland, and Scotland thus far. SO MUCH MORE TO SEE!!! I WANT TO SEE IT ALL!!!
DeletePS NM-I'm glad you liked my funny tidbit.:) You are not at home, and you are posting? I feel special.:)
DeleteIf I plan any trips to Europe in the future, I'll be sure to ask you for "Insider Tips"!!!
DeleteNorth-You are European too, aren't you???
DeletePS-I am still sad that I didn't have the time to visit the Czech Republic, while I was in Europe.:( From what I understand, Prague is AWESOME!!! Hopefully, I will get to see it someday!!!
DeleteAnon,
DeleteI haven't had money to travel much in my life. Just visits to relatives in hungary and 2 abroad holidays when I was a kid. I'd love to see the US one day, and Russia. And New Zealand. If I had the money and time. xD
I live in Vienna, Austria. Most beautiful city in the world, if you'd ask me. You should really pay it a visit some day. :)
~NM
NM-I would like to visit Austria, Hungary, and Russia someday!!! I am sure Austria is MAGNIFICENTLY BEAUTIFUL, and I hear St. Petersburg is, too!!! There is much more for me to see in the US, as well.:) I have visited Australia and New Zealand.:) New Zealand is BEAUTIFUL, and I hope you get to go there someday!!!
DeletePS NM-AUSTRIA HAS TO BE AWESOME!!! Mozart, Beethoven, Freud, palaces, museums...
DeletePSS NM-I LOVE "KLIMT", TOO!!! I have a ring that depicts his work "The Kiss".:)
DeletePSSS NM-I have a friend who married a Polish man, and they are lucky and get to travel to Poland, to visit his family!!! I've loved hearing about their trips, and want to visit there someday, as well.:) When I was on a trip, I met a man who was from Slovakia, and conversations with him convinced me I need to visit that country someday, too!!! He said he was planning to open a ski resort there...
DeleteAUSTRIAN CRYSTALS ARE COOL!!!
DeleteYep, Austria is definitely on my list, of places I need to travel to!!!
DeleteOk, that made me want to go to Austria RIGHT NOW!!! I have to stop.:)
DeleteAnon,
DeleteThe Pathologic-Anatomical Museum and the Natural History Museum are fantastic and the Albertina has a lot of different art exhibitions.
I'm not really into classical music, but Beethoven is great. Gotta love the 5th and 9th symphony.
There are a lot of artists in Austrian, great ones too - like Hermann Nitsch, Julia Hanzl, Ernst Fuchs, and so on.
I'm not that interested in all that stuff though. I love the forests and parks, the poeple and diverse culture. :)
~NM
NM-Thanks for the tips!!! Do you know if the "Albertina" shows Klimt? That art really "speaks to me".:) What parks, do you recommend? I love to travel for the people and diverse cultures, as well.:)
DeleteAnon, yes they show Klimt in their permanent collection. Here's a link:
Deletehttp://www.albertina.at/jart/prj3/albertina/main.jart?rel=en
As to the parks, Stadtpark and Schönbrunner Schlosspark are nice.
I prefer the recreational areas though; Wienerwald, Lobau, Wienerberg (my most favorite one, used to live there as a kid), Löwigrube and of course the Donauinsel. All of these are perfect for a walk with my dog. :)
~NM
YEAH!!! I'll have to visit the Albertina, and see the Klimt Collection!!! Thank you for your recommendations for parks and recreation areas, too!!! What breed of dog do you have???
DeleteNM-YOU ARE A GEM!!! It's easy to look up information, however the best recommendations come from natives.:)
DeletePS-As an aside, I love the way Klimt depicts women.:) He depicts them, in such a beautiful way.:)
DeletePSS-Klimt's work of "Schloss Kammer Park" is cool, too!!!
DeleteAnon, my dog is an Akita Inu mutt.
DeleteI'm not really into Klimt, but happy to hear I was of help for you.
You might want to concentrate on the last couple of posts on this blog post. I'm trying something different. And thank you for the kind comments ;)
NM-OMG!!! Your dog has to be SO CUTE!!! Male or female? You were of help to me-thanks again!!! I knew that was you.:) Thanks for the "heads up", as well.:) I would have never thought, to go that angle.:) Intelligent and wise, just as I said.:) You are more than welcome, for the kind comments.:)
DeletePS NM-I can't wait to see, how it plays out.:)
DeleteAnon,
DeleteFemale, 14 months old, lots of fluffy fur, very obedient (trained her by myself), reddish Akita coloring but with black hairtips.
I'm eager to see the outcome as well. Interesting character so far.
~NM
NM-ADORABLE!!! You know who, is definitely an interesting character.:) It has to be laughable for you, for it to be so easy to "put carrots out" and have the "normals" go for them, like bunnies.:) It must be funny, too, to be able to so easily incite huge reactions, with a few mere words.:)
DeletePS NM-So easy in fact, that I can imagine even playing with people, gets boring very quickly.:) It's simply too easy, isn't it?
DeletePSS NM-I bet he won't respond again, on that post.:)
DeleteAnon,
Deletewords are weapons, handling them has to be learned. Neurotypicals have an innate reaction to emotionally charged words, thus learning to use them is easily done.
For me, all words feel the same. It was a long, hard road to master even everyday smalltalk without hurting people ubintentionally.
But yes, I've managed to get to a point where it is as you say.
Now fight, mortals! xD
~NM
Damn, you're fast, Anon. Nah, never gets boring. I guess he will, at least when he figures out what's going on.
DeleteNM
Words are definitely weapons.:) I dedicate the song "My Immortal" by Evanescence, to you.:) Thank you, for the compliment.:) I'm glad, that it never gets boring for you.:) I think you have him at "checkmate", at least until the next post, which should be shortly forthcoming.:)
Delete...next topic post by M.E., I mean.:) What is your Akita's name???
DeleteI just have to say "You're so cool, you're so cool, you're so cool"!!! Patricia Arquette says that to Christian Slater, in the movie "True Romance".:) If you haven't seen it, you should check it out-it's an awesome movie.:)
DeleteI love Patricia Arquette!!! She gets her ass kicked in that movie, and then she kicks some ass!!!
DeleteI think you'd like it.:)
Delete"You know who", is attempting to figure out his new "plan of attack".:)
DeleteNM-When you "popped up", I knew you were "the one".:) My hope is well placed.:) You are the first one, who has been able to silence "you know who".:) You are "The Master"!!!
DeleteIn the name of God, The All-Merciful, The Compassionate.
Delete"Then all of them will appear exposed before God and the weak ones will say to the haughty ones: "We merely followed you. Will you, then, protect us from God's chastisement?" They will say: "Had God shown us the Way to our salvation, we would surely have also guided you. Now it is all the same whether we cry or suffer patiently, we have no escape.
After the matter has been finally decided Satan will say: "Surely whatever God promised you was true; as for me, I went back on the promise I made to you. I had no power over you except that I called you to my way and you responded to me. So, do not blame me but blame yourselves. Here, neither I can come to your rescue, nor can you come to mine. I disavow your former act of associating me in the past with God. A grievous chastisement inevitably lies ahead for such wrong-doers."
Qur'an 14:21-22
The God of your "you know who" sees all.
"North-You are European too, aren't you???"
DeleteI'm Australian. And you?
NM, it was a reasonable assessment.
As for words all feeling the same to you - I read of this in Christopher S. Hyatt: he presents a list of neutral words and contrasts it with a list of typically emotive words "shit, fuck, mother" or something. He used it to demonstrate how we layer meaning onto objects and situations. His exercises take one through a process of stripping away these applied meanings to indicate how we do this so naturally. And perhaps to the detriment of seeing things clearly for what they actually are. "What does this book mean?" "What does this table mean?" "What does this person mean?"
I enjoy these contrasts in the modes neurotypicals and psychopaths separately find natural. It's illuminating to peer even momentarily through the different lens - like finding a new frequency range of electromagnetic waves by which we can harvest more information about our universe. It gives a more complete picture.
Thanks
Your "dog" is running you, not vice versa and you know it. Why sell yourself to your "dog" so you can pretend to be special and lie to everyone else. The dog makes you grovel for a bone it throws on rare occasion. It tells one truth for ever 100 lies and your mind becomes incapable of realizing eventually.
DeleteSave yourself while you can. Don't let your pride and fear of "The Master" - the envious coward is no one's master - destroy you forever. It's an incredibly stupid bargain.
" The God of your "you know who" sees all. "
DeleteFunniest thing I've read all year...fairplay
Must one like the same colour schemes as you Jonaid? The same clothes? Must one have the same intellectual interests?
DeleteEvery individual has different preferences. Leave me to heal in my own way.
Thankyou.
North,
Delete"NM, it was a reasonable assessment."
I felt it was needed for staying real. Thank you.
I've did a quick research on Hyatt and figured I need to read some of his books. Thanks for the tip :)
I found something interesting related to the topic:
"An empathic human will feel unwilling revolution at the thought of killing another human being. This is because the body and brain experience a lesser version of it's previous sorrows, scolding from parents, and society lessons. Psychopaths can recall their own reactions as facts, but with no emotional content imposed on them that can modify or temper their behavior. Their only tools are to remove themselves from a situation or to manipulate the people around them to avoid extreme emotion and subsequently extreme expression."
The sentence I marked in italics startled me. It would explain a lot, but then again it would mean my memory, or to be more exact, my emotional memory (is there even such a thing?), isn't working correctly. If my brain is defective in the area of processing emotional content of memories - which is, if I recall right, the Amygdala and insular cortex - it likely has damage there. Those areas have effect on affective empathy, processing of language, moral judgment, speech articulation, fight-flight-response, etc. Or short: pretty much anything I found to be strange or "off" in me... I'll have to ponder over this a bit longer I guess. Not sure what to think about this finding...
"I enjoy these contrasts in the modes neurotypicals and psychopaths separately find natural. It's illuminating to peer even momentarily through the different lens - like finding a new frequency range of electromagnetic waves by which we can harvest more information about our universe. It gives a more complete picture."
Dito. I often say it's like using a different strainer to seperate what matters - but I like your analogy much better. :)
Jonaid,
DeleteThank your for the comment at 8:56am. That's the most hilarious compilation of misinterpreted, out-of-context stereotypes regarding dog-owners designed to personally attack someone I've ever read in my whole life (and that means something!). Really made my day.
Reading your other comments, I conclude you have calmed down a bit since your wrote that comment. Hope you do well my friend.
May your god, if you really want to believe so, give you the strength to overcome your current and past problems.
In the name of God, The All-Merciful, The Compassionate.
DeleteThey think to beguile God and those who believe, and they beguile none save themselves; but they perceive not.﴾9﴿
In their hearts is a disease, and God increaseth their disease. A painful doom is theirs because they lie.﴾10﴿
Qur'an 2:9-10
I don't care about these words coming from you, Jonaid - because you can't hear them yourself, they don't come from your heart. Your believe is fake in my eyes until the day you can make the words of your holy book alive - until you show the ability to comprehend what you are citing mindlessly.
DeleteGive me your reason, your thoughts, your interpretation of the paragraphs you have taken from the Qur'an and I will listen. If not, I will look at those lines without giving a thought, like I do with all senselessly regurgitated slogans.
If anyone is confused what they meant by "dog" was "Jinn." In our culture we call then "demons" although not all Jinn are demonic. They will of course say I'm confused or deluded to thwart anyone thinking sincerely. Like I always say do your own research - the truth is the truth regardless of what I or any devil here says.
DeleteThose were pretty clear verses. Of course if you're not of those people who it's speaking to you have nothing to worry about.
DeleteHow can you know I don't believe? If you don't believe my writings you must have some external reason to say so? Are some one of the psychos I possibly know? How would you know when the words come alive for me?
DeleteGod-willing I am - and never was and will be - a hypocrite. The Truth is the Truth even if I were. You don't have to believe ME - you just have to believe in what you know to be true.
Delete^ * Never was and never will be a hypocrite - God-willing *
DeleteOf course those were pretty clear verses, my point is: You just repeated what you have read. Anyone can do this, believers and liars alike.
DeleteI never said I know you don't believe - I said you lie, and that I won't believe what you write if you write it in a style that keeps me thinking you are lying to me.
You have read the lines about my worldview, if not then do so now.
How can I dare to think I know you? I can only read what you write, interpret your reactions, analyze the way you use words and the style in which you interact. I cannot know you through written words over the internet, and never will - just as you will never know me, hence it is irritating you keep judging me without being willing to listen to me. You do read what I write, of course, but you don't even try to understand. Do you see what I mean?
"How would you know when the words come alive for me?"
I don't and never said I do. If they come alive for you, then you can't communicate this feeling. Maybe it's not deep-rooted enough?
"[...] you just have to believe in what you know to be true."
Same applies here. Truth is relative, just as 'reality' is subjectively - and thus differently - perceived by each of us.
Let me be honest to you, without meaning to hurt or attack you. If you're willing to accept that I do not intend to do you wrong, then read on. If not, ignore this paragraph.
What I see in the way you communicate is the same I see in my way of communicating in real-life. (The internet, particularly this and my own blog, are a social training for me I've chosen to stop certain behaviors.) It is the exactly same style of provoking, attacking, deceiving, back-stabbing and alibi-giving I see in every one individual classifiable as either sociopaths, psychopaths or narcissists. With those words I go with the definition of the mental health experts around the world, not your definition. (You seem to have a completely different one, do you?)
I really hope you manage not getting me wrong this time, my friend.
Oh, and I never thought you were a hypocrite - a hypocrite believes his own bullshit.
DeleteYou're rational right? Then you'll understand the following:
DeleteWe're in a blog called "sociopath world." Besides myself everyone is anonymous. You think I will believe anything you say? Or anyone else? It doesn't matter - it's the argument that matters.
As for you believing me, I'm not anonymous and I'm being as straight forward about everything as possible. You'll grow exponentially in a single day when you realize it's YOUR problem that you by default mistrust people you have no evidence - actual evidence - to mistrust. Why do you, by default, assume I'm lying? Why not believe with Mr some reservation? That's what a rational, healthy mind does. I'm responding because I think you MIGHT be being sincere...even though I have actual reasons to doubt it.
You call me your friend when I don't know you and don't even know if I should know you. If you don't see that as YOUR problem to fix, you haven't grown up.
"Oh, and I never thought you were a hypocrite - a hypocrite believes his own bullshit."
DeleteI'm sorry buddy you got your terms mixed up. A person who believes their own BS is delusional, not hypocritical. A hypocrite says & preaches what he doesn't actually believe. I was delusional like all ignorant people once but I was never and will never - God-willing - be a hypocrite.
Thanks.
"I can only read what you write, interpret your reactions, analyze the way you use words and the style in which you interact. I cannot know you through written words over the internet, and never will - just as you will never know me, hence it is irritating you keep judging me without being willing to listen to me. You do read what I write, of course, but you don't even try to understand. Do you see what I mean?"
DeleteOne CAN understand a good deal about someone given enough writings by them. I'm sure - or hope, rather - there's at least one person here who's followed my writings here and knows I'm being sincere. Why? My message has been consistent, I've not been contradictory nor do I have an agenda other than what I know to be Truth (no possible selfish motive for all the time I spend here).
As for how I communicate here: I am a little rough at times because ya'll are pathological liars and manipulators. I have not been hypocritical or sociopathic in anyway - if I call out a psycho's trick it was THEY who forced me to, I didn't plan on it and instigate it. You know these tricks.
Well actually there is a possible "selfish" motive: if any psychos / socios who know me personally visit this blog. I hope my efforts help them somehow. They'd know my background story is true whereas others here can't know for sure. If psychos I know get healthier it'll of course make me feel better than psychos I don't know getting healthier. If that's selfish than its my only selfish agenda but it's only a small part.
DeletePS-If so, isn't that discrimination? Or, do they have the right to "refuse service to anyone"???
ReplyDeleteWhats that thing ppl put in their trunk so when they press a button the car will accelerate temporarely. I tink you know him.
ReplyDeleteThe "religious" anonymous above needs to learn about the theories they reject and learn about the beliefs they claim to hold before professing them. That's if it isn't a psycho pulling one.
ReplyDelete"It's by far not "courageous" of me to "seek help" since that wasn't the case. I was forced into most of these situations."
I appreciate your sincerity. I wasn't trying to guess about your situation rather I was giving an opinion on shrinks in this culture overall. My apologies I could have been clearer there.
"Just as a small fact; NM stands for Nihilistic Mind. I'd rather believe in numerous supernatural beings than in one almighty god, if I was to choose.
Was nice to meet you, but I doubt you can convince me to follow your religion."
I'm not convincing anyone to follow my religion or believe anything. That's stupid and doesn't work. The Qur'an says "let there be no compulsion in religion." When I mention God I do so because I know Him to be the source of everything so for ME to not do so when necessary would be lying on my part.
As for my posting parts of the Quran at times there's two reasons: 1) I hope it piques some people's interest and they consider reading it, 2) it speaks very clearly to a certain subgroup of the psychos who I call "minions." They know who they are and they know (probably better than me) what it's saying to them.
Thanks NM.
Jonaid-You assume so much. I have "learned about the theories I reject", and I still reject them. I have also "learned about the theories I claim before professing them". You don't even know what my "theory" or "claim" is. I said I believe in God, but did not say whom I believe God to be. I am not a "psycho pulling one". I don't appreciate, the way you use the word "psycho" here, either. I am a non-psychopath/non-sociopath/normal/empath...
DeletePS Jonaid-Initially, I read your posts and responded as many here have. I no longer wish to read about your religion, or you disrespecting people here. So, I have chosen to skip your posts, and no longer respond.
DeletePSS Jonaid-I only responded this time, because you directly attacked me...
DeletePSSS Jonaid-I do not consider myself "religious", rather spiritual. If someone were to ask me about the God I believe in, I would tell them. I'm not about to "push religion" here, as you have...
DeleteYou're confused. You don't know what Evolution is and if you know what the Big Bang theory is, do tell us why you reject it. If you seriously believe in God, think thrice before saying things in ignorance and make those who believe in God look like idiots. What is your definition of "God"?
DeletePSSS I can see why you don't "push religion" - you don't have one. If what I'm doing is "pushing religion" than I'm proud to do so and will continue to. Savvy?
You see psychopaths are subtle and slowly corrupt minds by throwing out nonsensical & deceptive BS out there. Then they say we're just discussing freely. If I genuinely believe in God and know He is the answer for those of us who are confused, my mere suggesting it or quoting Scripture becomes "forcing my views" or "being close-minded."
ReplyDeleteIt's okay though it's to be expected. Anyone with a sane mind who's sincerely seeking answers knows how to distinguish between sophistry and reason. Sometimes it takes a while but it can be done.
Jonaid,
ReplyDeleteThank you for this reaction. Brilliant. Cruel, yet courteous. I couldn't have done it much better.
A suggestion for improvement though, the first paragraph makes you look like you have no clue what you're talking about. You can do better than this.
~NM
How was I cruel? And I suppose "the first paragraph" is the one about the religious anonymous? If so, why does it make me look clueless?
ReplyDeleteThanks.
I was just being honest as always. I guess that comes across as brilliant to sociopaths (I mean it wasn't anything brilliant in content). Thanks I guess?
DeleteIf you really didn't get my last comment and my interpretation of your comments really is wrong, then I owe you an apology, and an explanation.
DeleteThat first paragraph, calling me "religious", shows me that you either never took a closer look at the topic of nihilism or that you were demeaning me by misrepresenting my worldview - to name just the most probable possibilities.
Furthermore you claim that I reject theories, wich is either a misunderstanding or deliberate use of words.
Given the 'aura' of previous comments you left on this blog, the most likely assumption is that you were trying to attack me in a brilliantly subtle fashion.
If you have read this with caution you might see how the second comment you left looks a lot like a cheap alibi for anyone accusing you of "subtle and slowly corrupt minds by throwing out nonsensical & deceptive BS out there" to say it in your own words - since you used that argument first.
I want you to know that I'm still open to communicate with you in a sincere and friendly way, if you're willing to do the same.
The way I see this whole communication between us, it seems that a lazy error on my part has caused a chainreaction of interpretation errors:
From my first answer to you,
"Was nice to meet you, but I doubt you can convince me to follow your religion."
That's a bad habit of mine - I tend to give answers before they get relevant, not waiting for the actual question to show up. In most cases, it can save lots of time. In other cases, as we see here, it can be easily misunderstood.
I wasn't saying you try to convince me of anything, I was saying you don't have to waste energy on this if you would want to convince me of something. I'm not exactly sure I could formulate it better this time, so just ask if anything is still unclear.
I hope you see now how your comments could be misinterpreted in a fashion that makes it look stunning and cruel.
However after reconsideration I agree with your last statement.
~NM
I think J was talking about the religious Anon above who wrote:
Delete"PSS NM-It does make me happy to believe.:) The way I look at it-if I believe and get to spend eternity in an AWESOME place, what do I have to lose? On the other hand, if I don't believe and I don't get to go to the AWESOME place for eternity, I've lost everything..."
Thank you anonymous 1:10 pm. I was talking about that anonymous not "NM." Sorry if I was not as clear as I could have been.
DeleteAnon@0110,
DeleteThat was my first thought too, but the context doesn't make it clear enough for me so I decided to interpret it the way I did.
Jonaid, could you clarify?
~NM
Ah, I was too late. Thank you, Jonaid.
Delete~NM
So this is not the first time I've been accused of saying something cruel or heartless when I mean something completely different. Frankly I don't really understand why - I've always been carelessly blunt because I think "I've got nothing to hide and I'm not saying anything wrong so it's not my problem if people misinterpret." Nonetheless, it has caused me problems in my life but I'll say what I say to anyone in person:
DeleteTell me straight up if something I said genuinely bothered you or was wrong in your opinion. If you're sincere we'll correct the misunderstanding eventually and respect each other more. If you're not, God-willing I'll indulge you until I'm sure enough you're being deliberately deceptive. After that it's best to just avoid you.
Ciao.
Jonaid, Your comment @7:43am genuinely bothered me. It's a senseless regurgitation of stereotypes, accusing me and others who identify as psychopaths to act this way all the time and implicating I'm incapable of any honest statements and communication without the intention to manipulate.
Delete~NM
NM@1.23
DeleteYes it was unclear from the context- my hunch came from J's having referred to you as NM further on, so I figured Anonymous probably meant strictly Anonymous. Misunderstanding can lead to interesting exchanges though - enjoying your posts
Anon@0215,
DeleteI see what you mean.
I agree, it's quite interesting indeed.
~NM
Jonaid@1.20
DeleteYou're welcome. I share your knack for being easily misinterpreted and sometimes appearing ruder than I intended. Absolute clarity can be hard to ensure in rapid exchange so I sympathise
NM@2.22
DeleteVery much. The content suddenly branches out when it happens so you get 'more of a good thing' in a way, plus the misunderstanding is always interesting in itself..
NM@2.02
DeleteIn a nutshell
Jonaid?
"Jonaid, Your comment @7:43am genuinely bothered me. It's a senseless regurgitation of stereotypes, accusing me and others who identify as psychopaths to act this way all the time and implicating I'm incapable of any honest statements and communication without the intention to manipulate."
DeleteLol you see psychopaths give themselves and their facade away eventually. If this genuinely bothered you than I'm happy it did. I literally mean it when I say a psychopath is evil and likely a minion. Are you capable of honest statements without an ill intention? Perhaps but if so, that's your empathy - whatever tiny bit is still alive - that causes you to, on rare occasion, be sincere.
Time to get a new anonymous ID and come back with another story. You're pathetic (and yes I mean that so no need to ask me to clarify that).
May God help you find your heart.
On in the unlikely scenerio wherein you actually meant what you said above: in that case you're not a "psychopath" and are either confused and think you are or are misusing a term for some other reason. I doubt this is the case though.
DeleteJonaid,
DeleteOut of interest, what do you think about autistic people who lack empathy? And what do you think causes their lack of empathy?
Jonaid,
DeleteYou said to NM:
" Are you capable of honest statements without an ill intention? Perhaps but if so, that's your empathy - whatever tiny bit is still alive - that causes you to, on rare occasion, be sincere. "
This seems a strange thing to say. Do you only make honest statements out of empathy? Are you never honest for its own sake?
Read your last few exchanges with NM, Jonaid... It makes me cringe. It's like you're doing that thing that psychopaths are accused of, 'Come closer so I can slap you'! I honestly can't see how you got from 'Tell me if anything bothers you' to 'I'm happy that bothered you', 'you're pathetic" etc. It's painful. Look at it again.
Delete“I am clueless when it comes to reading subtle cues but I am very empathic. I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling and I think this is actually quite common in AS/autism. The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it.”
DeleteI think this describes empathy in autistic people very well. It's also how my own empathy operated for a long time but I'm "moderate" and probably would not have qualified as AS and certainly not autistic. The quote is from the following article:
https://seventhvoice.wordpress.com/2013/11/16/new-study-finds-that-individuals-with-aspergers-syndrome-dont-lack-empathy-in-fact-if-anything-they-empathize-too-much/
My own view is that outlined in the article: autistic people actually have too much empathy but, without God, they have very few external sources - if any - of empathy for themselves. They have high affective empathy and a resulting low cognitive empathy and sociopaths seem to be the reverse (because they actively turn off the affective empathy at will - in other words: they make deliberate choices to do wrong and not feel horrible).
"Do you only make honest statements out of empathy?"
I meant that in the context used by NM who said they can be honest without always intending to manipulate. In that context a psychopath must be in genuine empathy mode or "off" mode I guess otherwise it's a contradiction.
"Are you never honest for its own sake?"
Why would anyone be "honest for its own sake?" I mean I guess you CAN be but it's really not a reason to be honest. What's "its own sake"? Unless you define honesty as Truth and Truth is God, then yes, I am honest for God's / Truth's sake. Does that mean without Him I would not be honest? No, but I would certainly not be as honest as I am now, even if by a insubstantial amount. It would, however, get substantial over time considering I'd have to live in a world full of lies, deception and cheating. Atheists can live extremely moral lives but I now know for certain that that morality is inherited from a religious tradition and is not "innate" in a sense that it's been with them always and would have been there with or without God.
Thanks.
BTW when one does anything truly for "God's sake" it's not because it's a rule they must follow. You WANT to do it because you understand why, you feel good doing it and feel horrible NOT doing it. Sometimes when you're frustrated and overwhelmed a little fear helps you stick to honesty as opposed to deception but if you truly understand God it's not really fear of punishment but rather a reinforcement (kind of like not making a mess in your house because Mom will get angry...she's not going to kill you and you know she means well).
Delete"Read your last few exchanges with NM, Jonaid... It makes me cringe. It's like you're doing that thing that psychopaths are accused of, 'Come closer so I can slap you'! I honestly can't see how you got from 'Tell me if anything bothers you' to 'I'm happy that bothered you', 'you're pathetic" etc. It's painful. Look at it again."
DeleteIf it bothers you that I detest deliberate misuse, abuse, manipulation, destruction, suffering of other people for purely selfish ends then that's one thing I will compromise on. If you have a well-intentioned disagreement with me that's no problem. It was clear what I meant - unless you're psychopathic and thus insane.
^ *one thing I will NOT compromise on*
DeleteI should add tho: if you're a psychopath who wants to change - not be sneaking manipulator and deceiver - I would not judge you by your past or attack you for your recurring "slips." I'd actually admire your courage and help in any way I could. My philosophy is: be uncompromisingly honest in your words but be as generous and compassionate as possible in your actions.
DeleteI do have a well-intentioned disagreement. I know people who have been almost emotionless since an early age, following traumas in childhood. They are by society's (if not your own) definition/criteria 'psychopathic'. They are by no means always manipulative - they are very often honest. I would even go as far as to say that they can be more honest - capable of greater honesty - than many 'normal' people I know, ie. if I ever want a very honest opinion about something, I have found these people to be the ones most able and likely to give it when asked.
DeleteIf one of them were to read your view concerning psychopaths' dishonesty they would not find it true to their own experience, and I imagine would feel much like you must feel about Trump's wanting to ban all Muslims from entering the States, knowing firsthand the inaccuracies of his stereotypes. His assumptions about Muslims are based on a tiny minority of bloodthirsty nutters.
Someone who society/science may regard as psychopathic, who know themselves to be capable of honesty and frequently honest, would object to your stereotype as you would object to Trump's.
I feel you owe NM an apology. Their objection was not only entirely understandable, but predictable. They have also been very polite to you. This is why it made me cringe.
I don't call those people you know with childhood trauma psychopaths. If you're sincere this is just a semantic misunderstanding on your part. I've made it clear time and time again what I mean by "psychopath."
DeleteBut when society, medical science and they themselves use the term psychopath you can't expect them not to assume you are referring to them.
DeleteMore importantly, you do not know NM or the first thing about their capacity for honesty. You've made an assumption which was anything but 'being as generous and compassionate as possible in your actions', can't you see that?
There was no need to assume that objection from NM was insincere. (i.e. Occam's razor applies here)
DeleteIt's also unrealistic to assume that everyone who drops in here has read all of your past posts - it's actually unlikely that they will have.
DeleteAnd since early trauma is a very common route to psychopathy, the chances of your inadvertently 'doing a Trump' are quite high. That has to be something worth avoiding, at all costs, given its inevitably poisonous effects.
Anon 12:24-Thank you for attempting to deal with Jonaid.:) What do you think is wrong with him?
DeletePS-Something is very, very wrong...
DeleteIn the name of God, The All-Merciful, The Compassionate.
Delete1. When the heaven is split asunder,
2. And listens and obeys its Lord, and it must do so;
3. And when the earth is stretched forth,
4. And has cast out all that was in it and became empty,
5. And listens and obeys its Lord, and it must do so;
6. O man! Verily, you are returning towards your Lord with your deeds and actions (good or bad), a sure returning, so you will meet (i.e. the results of your deeds which you did).
7. Then, as for him who will be given his Record in his right hand,
8. He surely will receive an easy reckoning,
9. And will return to his family in joy!
10. But whosoever is given his Record behind his back,
11. He will invoke (his) destruction,
12. And shall enter a blazing Fire, and made to taste its burning.
13. Verily, he was among his people in joy!
14. Verily, he thought that he would never come back (to Us)!
15. Yes! Verily, his Lord has been ever beholding him!
16. So I swear by the afterglow of sunset;
17. And by the night and whatever it gathers in its darkness;
18. And by the moon when it is at the full,
19. You shall certainly travel from stage to stage (in this life and in the Hereafter).
20. What is the matter with them, that they believe not?
Quran 84:1-20
I think it's complex PTSD and / or some sort of attachment problem. Disorganised attachment style or even reactive attachment disorder.
DeleteNorth-You are probably right. People have asked nicely, so many times. He continues to frustrate and drive people away. What does that say, when you are on a psychopathic/sociopathic blog???
DeletePS-Seriously, right???
DeleteIt's so strange, isn't it. But there's wonder in that, as I think someone - I lose track with Anons :) - mentioned earlier.
Delete"In Zen practice the thing you have to understand is this…
DeleteYou have to regard yourself as a cloud in the flesh. Because you see clouds never make mistakes.
Did you ever see a cloud that was misshaped? Did you ever see a badly designed wave? No, they always do the right thing.
Now, so as a matter of fact so do we because we are natural beings just like clouds and waves. Only we have complicated games which causes us to doubt ourselves.”
~Alan Watts
Jonaid is his own wave, just as each of us are.
It's PTSD: Prescient, Truthful, Sincere, Discerning.
DeleteAlas no "H" for Humble
DeleteI'm extremely humble compared to a sociopath, and probably OKAY compared to a "normal" person. Compared to saints I'm likely still full of myself. It takes time (I likely inherited some conceit from sociopathic family members) but if the intention is good, God guides and it's nothing short of sublime how He guides.
Deletethere is no order except that is in human minds. and it is just smart people to use that imaginary order for their own good. so, it is justice in some way, in natural way. smart lives, dumb falls.
ReplyDeleteI'm happily "dumb" by your definition. Let's see how it turns out for the "smart" ones.
DeleteI thought the instructions were if its not my friend then it goes away. Then we talked about the car getting serviced (to pass emissions of course). Did I miss something.
ReplyDeleteWhere is the quick response? What if this was a copy n paste moment?
ReplyDeleteStupid WHORES think there gonna charge me more. Whats wrong with these SLUTS? Watch as I get better for less
ReplyDeleteI also believe in crackwhores that dont know whats up
ReplyDeleteSLUTS r SLUTS
DeleteGlorious be Unto Dr Ukaka the great man and ever, my name is Sarah from Florida city usa. since 1 and a half year I have witness what is called heart broken. my boyfriend that promised me marriage failed me and impregnate me and leave,he dump me,he stop calling" he stop picking my calls,and he no longer respond to me. I have be looking for solution,I fall into the hands of fake spell caster,they rough me off and took my money without help.I have cried,I have weep"and tears runs out of eyes. The silentness in my heart brought me to the deepest path of failure that I lost my job. Crying all day,because of my life was lonely. So thanks to Ukaka that came into my life and brought me the greatest joy that was lost. I saw his mail while browsing and I contact and tell him what I am passing through with no doubt because what saw about him,was enough to believe. And I was given words of solution on what to do. I can't really help thinking about it I have tried to see what I can do, I manage to provide him some materials and he help me with the rest,after casting the spell, 12hrs later he came with rose on his hand and I was even about going out,i saw him in front of my door when he sees me he knee and said he is dying I should forgive him and accept him back he was crying,I can't wait to let him finish I quickly crab him and kiss him, just then" he said he is restless without me, just as the prophet has said he will be. He brought out a ring and put it on my hand. Our wedding day was scheduled,1week after we got married. today makes it 2weeks and we are living happily I don't know how to praise him enough, he has done me a thing I can never forget. And I can't really share to myself alone, I want y'all to help me praise him because if it is wasn't for him I already plan of committing suicide. But right now I am now so happy more than I was before. And you out there crying for help you've already got one,Ukaka is the man that you need in all rampart. contact his address if you need his service, freedomlovespell@hotmail.com also contact him on his web site: freedomlovespelltemple.yolasite.com
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to money and lifestyle, who gets to decide what's the objective truth of how we define winners and losers? Are the winners the ones with the most money and high social standing, and the losers the ones with hardly more than a few dollars in their bank accounts if even that and flipping patties at the burger joint? I'd love to buy in to the belief that as I climb the social ladder and accumulate wealth that those things somehow make me superior over others who are less fortunate, but I'm also cognizant of the fact that some people are satisfied with shuffling along with the rest of the sheep, making just enough to live a lower middle class life and that perhaps their way of life is no less valid than mine. I like to be able to have a grasp on power over people and ruthlessly acquire the resources I desire to have, but I know these things are just materials and temporary and thus capable of being lost. While being a step ahead of everyone else socially and financially is a major plus, I like being able to simply maintain the minimum of what I require for the lifestyle I find fulfilling so anything more then that which is lost is no big deal to me. I'd like to believe the minimum of what I need to live my preferred lifestyle is very little... a flow of things to keep me entertained and people, tools, for me to use and play with to make those things happen.
ReplyDeleteESTP Sociopath
I personally think more in terms of freedom - as you astutely point out, power is only instrumental to freedom. Where you have sufficient freedom, maintenance of a power base and / or resources is an overhead.
DeleteAs the Epicureans say - it's easy to get good things. And I'm with Alan Watts - existence is playful rather than necessary in any way. Enjoy the dance - the point is not the finale but pleasure in each step.
You add another element, though, and that is pleasure in power of itself. Have I read you correctly? It is a question I have and I wonder if it's something like an extra joy - like the thrill I get in driving fast - or is it a real driver of behaviour?
Thanks.
"... power is only instrumental to freedom. Where you have sufficient freedom, maintenance of a power base and / or resources is an overhead."
DeleteYes, of course. I chase the kind of power I desire in order to have and maintain the lifestyle, the pursuit of total freedom and liberty, that I believe suits me best. The acquisition of power and having it is just another instrument I use to playing that music. When you hold that power, you hold a greater power in being able to embrace your own identity (and consequently the have the life you want to live) that otherwise would be denounced by other figures of authority. To grasp onto that power, to be your own authority over yourself, is to have a great kind of freedom for yourself.
"Enjoy the dance - the point is not the finale but pleasure in each step."
Yes, it's always been the journey rather then the destination that gives me the most satisfaction. Like when it comes to seduction, the process of acquisition of my object of desire seems to be where I find the most thrills; the carefully constructed first impression to hook them in, the flirtation, and all the right things to reel them in and keep them coming back on their own initiative because I was the one to plant that seed of addiction. So the dancing before the music stops, those moments, is what counts.
"You add another element, though, and that is pleasure in power of itself. Have I read you correctly? It is a question I have and I wonder if it's something like an extra joy - like the thrill I get in driving fast - or is it a real driver of behaviour?"
There was a quote on M.E.'s twitter that I can't quite recall, but it was something along the lines of that beauty simply makes the heart a better listener. So to me, the allure of power simply makes me feel mere inclined to take certain actions over others because I adore the beauty of it. So in that sense, yes, it is a real driver for my behaviors.
ESTP Sociopath
"Yes, of course. I chase the kind of power I desire in order to have and maintain the lifestyle, the pursuit of total freedom and liberty, that I believe suits me best. The acquisition of power and having it is just another instrument I use to playing that music. When you hold that power, you hold a greater power in being able to embrace your own identity (and consequently the have the life you want to live) that otherwise would be denounced by other figures of authority. To grasp onto that power, to be your own authority over yourself, is to have a great kind of freedom for yourself."
DeleteThis is my goal too in life and it's taken some time but I can happily say that I have now reached the level freedom in my everyday life that feels just great. I still want to get even more freedom to really express what I am. This mostly applies to work: I want people to come to me because of what I am and do and not do what they want me to do. I guess that's the artist attitude.
"you hold a greater power in being able to embrace your own identity (and consequently the have the life you want to live) that otherwise would be denounced by other figures of authority. To grasp onto that power, to be your own authority over yourself, is to have a great kind of freedom for yourself."
DeleteI pondered this, and yes, I understand you. Perhaps it plays out differently for me - where it's more about establishing reputation and role before fully disclosing and allowing my personality and preferences to flourish in a particular environment.
Your description of seduction resonated with my experience. I recalled the very day he donned his mask with me. Such a strange, intoxicating change, so palpable. There I was thinking I was finally getting a peak under his secretive surface.
"plant that seed"
Now, this is funny. The socio I loved worked with a few of our colleagues for almost a year. I heard that phrase "planting seeds" from EACH of these other fellows. Not from him, but we were no longer speaking. Even when I first heard it, I thoughts they must be echoing his language. I'm sure they were echoing his language. Now don't tell me you've read Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus! ;)
"There was a quote on M.E.'s twitter that I can't quite recall, but it was something along the lines of that beauty simply makes the heart a better listener. So to me, the allure of power simply makes me feel mere inclined to take certain actions over others because I adore the beauty of it. So in that sense, yes, it is a real driver for my behaviors."
Thankyou.
I also liked that tweet. Beauty and curiosity are the most wholesome foods for the mind, and the most delicious.
I thought about another corollary for me - it helps me to imagine the quality of your experience. The type of beauty I invest in and hunger for and seek is vision and drive. Conceptualising a vision for an outcome in a particular problem domain and guiding efforts until it is achieved. It is in pursuit of this that I deploy all my skill and creativity and my heart sings. This is when I feel most alive and my passion overflows. M.E. occasionally gets a dose of my enthusiasm, lol. I have much to learn about channeling my new-found boldness... but it's paying off for me regardless, especially at work.
"I want people to come to me because of what I am and do and not do what they want me to do. I guess that's the artist attitude."
I love this Lola. The exuberance that comes with doing what you love will surely be noticeable outwardly and draw people to you.
what the FUCK is that fucker shit muslim doin HERE?!!? bastart ass tries to tkae over teh WORLD with his fucking FANATIC BULSHITT!?? want to fuck litle GIRLS in ya bulllshit ISIS war aganst humanitie??!? not wiht us yo mothafucker!!! Take your dam koran with yo STUPIT SEXIST idology BACK to yo TERORIST ISLAM CONTRY!!!1!!111 yo SHIT-FACEED FUCKER wil BURRN in HELL for waht youve done to us!!!!
ReplyDeleteLife has either been too kind to you or not at all. In either case, I hope you come to back to reality.
ReplyDeleteyou shoud com back to reality yo FUCKING FAGGOT TERORIST!!!11!!!!1!
ReplyDeletehappy 2016 y'all!
ReplyDeleteAnon 2:41-THANK YOU!!!
ReplyDeleteAnon 3:14-THANK YOU!!!
ReplyDeleteAnon 2:41 and Anon 3:14-I LOVE YOU AND AM YOUR FAN!!!
ReplyDeleteLol it just got dumber and most filthy at the same time. In case you still have a heart deep down: if you don't believe in God just imagine your mother holding you when you were a baby and knowing that one day you'd utter something as vile as you just did. There is a reason why it feels wrong IF it does.
ReplyDeletei belive in GOD THE ALLMIGHTY but yo stupid MUSLIM TERRORIST FAG DONT NOW wat that even MEANS!! you FILTHY SINNER cant SEE wat yo DO to our beutiful culture. you just wantto DESTROY and spred LIES with yo WANNABE RELIGION. bet yo mother fucked yo whole VILLAGE cause thats what yo FUCKING TERRIST DO ALL DAY!!!!1!!!!1!1
DeleteAnon 3:45-YOU ROCK!!!
DeleteAnon 3:45 You moron
DeleteHey Jonaid, you seem to use your religiousness just as a defense shield to protect you from all you don't want to hear. You're not really religious, am I right?
ReplyDeleteNo statement is a statement too. Thanks for confirming me. ;)
DeleteAnon 6:19-YOU SILENCED JONAID!!! WOO-HOO!!!
DeleteAnon 6:19-YOU ARE MY HERO!!!
ReplyDeleteYou folks aren't worth responding to but just in case you get away with confusing some innocent or sincere reader:
ReplyDeleteI swear by the God I profess to believe in that I have not knowingly lied about Him or my beliefs on this blog. "Knowingly" includes if I'm still an atheist and don't even believe in God so think I can get away with this affirmation. If I have knowingly lied or misrepresented anything than may God's curse be on me while I'm alive and after I die. Let this be documented proof against me and you all the witnesses.
Now who's going to retract their accusation? If not, at least swear to it that you think I'm lying. Come now let's not be nice and expose the liars shall we?
Let's expose you, Jonaid.
DeleteYou're a liar and a thief. You steal words from a legitimate religion and misuse it to failingly protect your distorted sense of self and of what you mistake for reality.
You disguise your evil scheming with fanatic stereotypes and discern all rightful believers of the religion you abuse.
Be all readers the witness of your idiocy.
Was nice to meet you - and still is - my friend, but I doubt you can convince me, or any of the innocent and sincere readers that your BS is true.
If you have any good in your heart you'll come around one day, God-willing. You'll sob rivers when you realize what the truth was but it'll be okay after that. That's IF you have any sincerity left and don't let your pride & cynicism get in the way.
ReplyDeleteGood luck "friend."
Jonaid, If you have any good in your heart you'll come around one day and you'll sob rivers when you realize what the truth was but it'll be okay after that. That's IF you have any sincerity left and don't let your pride & BS get in the way.
DeleteGood luck my friend, without hesitation marks.
Well if I am your friend, then know that my attempts to "convince" you are out of genuine care & love. In the end, it does not matter. Everyone knows that one cannot "prove" anything to another person unless they see it for themselves. Your heart knows why I persist. All I ask of someone is to be sincere in their quest and ask God Himself for answers. It's not "my way" it's THE way.
ReplyDelete"Those who cover up (the truth) say: If only a portent were sent down upon him from his Lord! Say: Lo! God sendeth whom He will astray, and guideth unto Himself all who turn (unto Him)"
Qur'an 13:27
Let there be no confusion: "God" is the One and Only - Creator of All. Not any cowardly devil who does his tricks in secrecy.
DeleteHi NM,
ReplyDelete"I found something interesting related to the topic:
"An empathic human will feel unwilling revolution at the thought of killing another human being. This is because the body and brain experience a lesser version of it's previous sorrows, scolding from parents, and society lessons. Psychopaths can recall their own reactions as facts, but with no emotional content imposed on them that can modify or temper their behavior. Their only tools are to remove themselves from a situation or to manipulate the people around them to avoid extreme emotion and subsequently extreme expression."
The sentence I marked in italics startled me. It would explain a lot, but then again it would mean my memory, or to be more exact, my emotional memory (is there even such a thing?), isn't working correctly. If my brain is defective in the area of processing emotional content of memories - which is, if I recall right, the Amygdala and insular cortex - it likely has damage there. Those areas have effect on affective empathy, processing of language, moral judgment, speech articulation, fight-flight-response, etc. Or short: pretty much anything I found to be strange or "off" in me... I'll have to ponder over this a bit longer I guess. Not sure what to think about this finding..."
Thanks for sharing this. In connection, I came across the following a few days ago in a podcast:
"Rachel Wilson: We basically have two types of emotions. We have what we call primary emotions, which are the instinctual and innate ones; fear, satisfaction, anger and some others. And then we have a series of emotions which develop throughout the first few years of life, and these are called the secondary emotions or the social emotions, and they include things like empathy, guilt, shame. Love is one of the first secondary emotions that develops."
I hadn't encountered this previously; it's those secondary or social emotions that are supposedly missing in psychopaths. That can hardly be coincidental; it's architectural and repeated.
What do you think?
Perhaps the Hyatt books will be interesting to you. He's a pragmatic teacher; his exercises allow you to experience how your brain functions. Little experiments. And he guides you to choosing beyond the subconscious beliefs embedded in childhood. From what I can see, he has nihilistic leanings and I think draws on psychopathic tendencies that *work*. He can also be very tender.
Mindsight is another good book for exploring brain structure and neuroplasticity.
NORTH you asked me about this a few weeks ago. This is for you:
ReplyDeleteIn the name of God, The All-Merciful, The Compassionate.
"Say: It is revealed unto me that a company of the Jinn gave ear, and they said: Lo! we have heard a marvellous Qur'an,
Which guideth unto righteousness, so we believe in it and we ascribe no partner unto our Lord.
And (we believe) that He - exalted be the glory of our Lord! - hath taken neither wife nor son,
And that the foolish one among us used to speak concerning Allah an atrocious lie.
And lo! we had supposed that humankind and jinn would not speak a lie concerning God -
And indeed individuals of humankind used to invoke the protection of individuals of the jinn, so that they increased them in revolt against God;
And indeed they supposed, even as ye suppose, that God would not raise anyone (from the dead) -
And (the Jinn who had listened to the Qur'an said): We had sought the heaven but had found it filled with strong warders and meteors.
And we used to sit on places (high) therein to listen. But he who listeneth now findeth a flame in wait for him;
And we know not whether harm is boded unto all who are in the earth, or whether their Lord intendeth guidance for them.
And among us there are righteous folk and among us there are far from that. We are sects having different rules.
And we know that we cannot escape from God in the earth, nor can we escape by flight.
And when we heard the guidance, we believed therein, and whoso believeth in his Lord, he feareth neither loss nor oppression.
And there are among us some who have surrendered (to God) and there are among us some who are unjust. And whoso hath surrendered to God, such have taken the right path purposefully.
And as for those who are unjust, they are firewood for hell."
Qur'an 72:1-15
You should stop clogging the place deliberately to mislead people. If not, it's better for you to go elsewhere like you said you would.