From a reader, written to me previous to the other PTSD inquiry, for a second set of thoughts:
I started reading your blog a few days ago (ordered your book as well) and it's been really helpful. Not sure how many random emails you get or how happy you are to reply to or publish them on the blog, but I'm giving it a shot as this is something I've been trying to get some information and/or reflections on for a long time.
So I'm not diagnosed with ASPD (never been assessed), but this last year the pieces have started coming together and I'm pretty sure I'm a sociopath with narcissistic tendencies. I hate admitting it but eventually I suppose you have to look at the evidence. I've tortured animals. As a kid I had a list of people I was going to kill and I knew exactly what doing that meant. I've spent my entire adult life exploiting and manipulating everyone around me for professional, monetary or sexual gain. I'm a sexual sadist and have put people in hospital for kicks. I've seen the blank look in people's eyes when they think it's all over and it's the hottest thing I've ever seen. Got a pretty standard history of drug, sex and adrenaline abuse. Don't really know how many people's lives I've ruined, but some of them are in therapy now. Just putting all of this out for factual reference. I never felt bad about doing any of these things and never really considered myself a bad person. I suppose on some level I knew what I was doing was wrong, but it's hard to make morally correct decisions when the wellbeing of other's doesn't feel relevant. I just did what I wanted and didn't really think about whether it was right or wrong.
So that's the background. Eventually it all blew up in my face when I messed with the wrong people. Was almost killed and had to literally flee the country and start a new life. Before that, these people made sure that the life I had was completely ruined. Everything I'd been built up like friends, work, networking etc vanished and everyone I thought I had under control started seeing me as a monster. And then I was abused and mindfucked by people who were way better at it than me. Ended up a total wreck, got diagnosed with PTSD. And suddenly I started feeling guilt, which I'd never really felt before. Eventually I learned that it was just regret, or at least I think so. Example: I hurt two different people in the same manner. I get away with the first one, so I don't feel guilty. I suffer consequences for the second, so I feel some kind of regret that my brain interprets as guilt. Does that make sense? I also suddenly started caring about what people thought of me or how they saw me. Nowadays I'll actually feel bad if someone dislikes me, which makes no sense as I never used to care. I'm suspecting it's the trauma. My brain interprets anyone who dislikes me as a potential threat. I may be mostly fearless but being abused and almost killed isn't something I want to repeat. My brain works a bit like this: Person dislikes me = gets others to dislike me = mob mentality = I'm dead. It's fairly irrational, but then I suppose it happened once so it could happen again.
I suppose what I'm looking for is any insight into the connection between sociopathy and PTSD, and how this might influence one's emotional spectrum through "false" guilt or self-consciousness. My ASPD friend claims sociopaths can't be traumatised, but I'm skeptical. My life doesn't make much sense if I can't simultaneously have sociopathic traits and be traumatised, because there's evidence of both. I'm 28 and female if that's relevant.
I started reading your blog a few days ago (ordered your book as well) and it's been really helpful. Not sure how many random emails you get or how happy you are to reply to or publish them on the blog, but I'm giving it a shot as this is something I've been trying to get some information and/or reflections on for a long time.
So I'm not diagnosed with ASPD (never been assessed), but this last year the pieces have started coming together and I'm pretty sure I'm a sociopath with narcissistic tendencies. I hate admitting it but eventually I suppose you have to look at the evidence. I've tortured animals. As a kid I had a list of people I was going to kill and I knew exactly what doing that meant. I've spent my entire adult life exploiting and manipulating everyone around me for professional, monetary or sexual gain. I'm a sexual sadist and have put people in hospital for kicks. I've seen the blank look in people's eyes when they think it's all over and it's the hottest thing I've ever seen. Got a pretty standard history of drug, sex and adrenaline abuse. Don't really know how many people's lives I've ruined, but some of them are in therapy now. Just putting all of this out for factual reference. I never felt bad about doing any of these things and never really considered myself a bad person. I suppose on some level I knew what I was doing was wrong, but it's hard to make morally correct decisions when the wellbeing of other's doesn't feel relevant. I just did what I wanted and didn't really think about whether it was right or wrong.
So that's the background. Eventually it all blew up in my face when I messed with the wrong people. Was almost killed and had to literally flee the country and start a new life. Before that, these people made sure that the life I had was completely ruined. Everything I'd been built up like friends, work, networking etc vanished and everyone I thought I had under control started seeing me as a monster. And then I was abused and mindfucked by people who were way better at it than me. Ended up a total wreck, got diagnosed with PTSD. And suddenly I started feeling guilt, which I'd never really felt before. Eventually I learned that it was just regret, or at least I think so. Example: I hurt two different people in the same manner. I get away with the first one, so I don't feel guilty. I suffer consequences for the second, so I feel some kind of regret that my brain interprets as guilt. Does that make sense? I also suddenly started caring about what people thought of me or how they saw me. Nowadays I'll actually feel bad if someone dislikes me, which makes no sense as I never used to care. I'm suspecting it's the trauma. My brain interprets anyone who dislikes me as a potential threat. I may be mostly fearless but being abused and almost killed isn't something I want to repeat. My brain works a bit like this: Person dislikes me = gets others to dislike me = mob mentality = I'm dead. It's fairly irrational, but then I suppose it happened once so it could happen again.
I suppose what I'm looking for is any insight into the connection between sociopathy and PTSD, and how this might influence one's emotional spectrum through "false" guilt or self-consciousness. My ASPD friend claims sociopaths can't be traumatised, but I'm skeptical. My life doesn't make much sense if I can't simultaneously have sociopathic traits and be traumatised, because there's evidence of both. I'm 28 and female if that's relevant.
" She threw away all her masks - And put on her soul."
ReplyDeleteM.E. Just saw s pic on Facebook , reminded me of you in this post :-)
Superchick-I just read this, and I LOVE IT!!!
~Vegas
...beautiful...
Delete~Vegas
:D it resonates inside
DeleteAm also a female but a lot older than 28. I assure you you can be traumatised and be psychopathic. It happened to me two years ago. That equation you've put up there ending up with 'mob mentality consequences' isn't irrational, quite the opposite. Your equation is extremely correct, mob mentality could kill you, literally. The feeling of vulnerability and lack of control of one's circumstances and life are extremely traumatising to anyone who is used to high levels of control of others, and one's own life. Like psychopaths.
ReplyDeleteI don't think you are feeling 'guilt', it's probably fear [that you don't recognise as such]. I also have that issue. I don't recognise fear when I feel it transiently before it fades quickly; it's only after a year's worth of psychological help I 'pull it back, examine it' and work out "Oh, OK, that was fear. Why did it occur?" and then I work out what to do about the threat (instead of getting angry and hostile by default).
Fear is actually fascinating to feel; I've disturbed my psychologist more than once when I burst out laughing when she tells me about being afraid (eg. of incarcerated psychopaths she's had to assess). I just find it hilarious to feel 'fear' when you're not actually getting attacked.
"I also suddenly started caring about what people thought of me or how they saw me. Nowadays I'll actually feel bad if someone dislikes me, which makes no sense as I never used to care. I'm suspecting it's the trauma."
Exactly. Now you're aware that actually, people's high regard is very important: it ensures your 'security'. That's exactly what I worked out, going to the shrink. The reason to care about people's opinions of yourself is that it guarantees a safe support structure if things go wrong. That's why it pays to be pro-social. Nice people get cared for, protected; but mean ones don't.
So your brain is working as it should be. Not PTSD probably, just 'normal' fear that must be noticed to avoid possible threat. PTSD would be panic attacks, flashbacks etc. I know someone well who has PTSD. (Not induced by me 8-) I hasten to add.)
The most useful thing I've learned in therapy is: Don't doubt your brain. But you may not yet have the awareness to interpret the feelings you feel, correctly. Schema therapy especially is good to help with that.
You may well feel regret that your actions have adverse consequences (for you). That's not guilt though. That's "oh oh; I got that wrong. Danger ahead. Watch out. May have to fight (or run)."
Guilt is possibly a good guess if you actually 'feel' really sorry for the other person, ie.: "Oh the poor thing. How could I have done that to them" Of course that could be sympathy, since you can now relate to how it feels to be on the receiving end of someone's hostility.
NB: Might pay not to listen to ASPD friends. They're not exactly known for being 'in touch with their feelings or anyone else's' 8-) 8-)
Best wishes.
XK
XK-I would guess your psychologist feel like Jodie Foster in Silence of the Lambs, when she goes to assess psychopaths in prison. She is probably afraid that a man might throw his semen on her, or she might get too close to one similar to Anthony Hopkins, and get bitten in the face...
Delete~Vegas
No. She doesn't like them shoving a table towards her or throwing a chair into the corner.
DeleteColleagues don't like their children threatened either, apparently.
Life is not Hollywood. Get a grip.
XK
Sometimes life is like Hollywood, or that is the impression I get when I tell people my life story as they describe it as "Hollywood-like", as to them it apparently is too good too be true, or is it too bad to be true? No matter.
DeleteLike that one man I spoke of before in another couple posts who proposed that I join this group of men who'd be going around killing unsavory characters, the very same man I exerted social dominance over by trampling all over his life to remove him as an object in the way of my best interests, interfering with my ability to utilize other people as tools because of his destructive behavior. I saw him once more not too long ago, behaving like a wounded animal; I'd give him my piercing gaze, but he couldn't even hold his own gaze with mine, casting them downward. Did I really destroy his life, with his dream job, had his friends lose faith in him, with all of what I did to them? I think a significant part of it, besides me having violated him, is the ruminating on all the negative emotions and powerlessness within defeat. Perhaps I could be projecting my cognitive understanding of how things are, but I think in a sense it's not just me making him into a victim, he is making himself a victim by not turning this event and emotional turmoil into a catalyst for positive change; to a certain extent I think pain and suffering is necessary for personal growth, whatever form it my take for a normal person or even a sociopath as well if we can see the incentive in changing or maladaptive coping mechanisms with adaptive ones; it comes down to having a deeper sense of what behaviors or patterns are self destructive to us, to better utilize our power of perception, and therefore our intelligence. So if we are intelligent and educate ourselves to better know not to "drink the Kool-Aid", to not sell out to our own contempt for society for holding the very prejudice towards our personality traits that in turn creates a environment that is toxic to us sociopaths and makes us develop maladaptive coping mechanisms, we can have enough self awareness to know that we must continue to adapt in better ways.
I've been smoking some really dank weed; it's the pacifist's drug, as that's my experience of it. Far too stoned to go out and wreck havoc. I enjoy the high too.
ESTP Sociopath
"I've been smoking some really dank weed;"
DeleteI can tell: ~50 lines of rambling drivel is a bit of a tell 8-)
"I think pain and suffering is necessary for personal growth"
Agreed. So now, after; this applies:
"I don't accommodate to my environment. It accommodates to me"
Read that comment here long ago. Always admired it.
regards
XK
My words will only have as much meaning as you choose to see in them. As much as I adapt to society, society must be willing to adapt to me.
DeleteESTP Sociopath
Enjoyed your comments, XK.
DeleteOP, you seem to have a pretty good cognitive wrap on your situation. I echo XK - trust your brain from here.
Ther more we genuinely open to the data of experience, the better able we are to create more accurate models and thus drive more adaptive practices. The human brain is certainly a wonderland.
(OP here)
DeleteThanks for the comment XK and for sharing your perspective, obviously my own logic and assertion of my brain makes sense to me but it's good to have it confirmed by someone else who can relate to the situation.
I did have flashbacks and was actually diagnosed with PTSD during a brief contact with a therapist, so that part is there. It's interesting how you mentioned that I could be feeling fear (or the residual effects of it) without realizing it. Naturally I had an emergency response during these events (flight, luckily) but I never really considered the magnitude or depth of any fear I was feeling, or the fear I might still be dealing with on a subconscious level. Guess that makes sense in a way since prior to this I don't think I've ever been properly afraid.
To OP:
Delete"since prior to this I don't think I've ever been properly afraid."
Fear, or vulnerability? Due to the realisation of how powerless you can actually be if things go wrong?
Fear comes and goes, fleetingly. Vulnerability, I think you have to resolve. You have to ensure you aren't vulnerable, in other words. Either by changing your responses to situations that might make you vulnerable; or, removing the causes of the vulnerability ie. attack.
I've had car accidents [the cars were totaled], and I never felt any fear, just mild annoyance for the inconvenience.
I never realised the significance of that, till I also noticed I wasn't afraid during the entire time of the traumatic mess. Just enraged. Which turned into complete emotional instability because I could not attack.
I had no idea what I would do or feel from hour to hour.
Internally simultaneously observing the emotional turmoil, coldly.
By the end of it I was half-way to psychotic. And dangerous. And fascinated by that. The discovery of not having boundaries was amazing. Worth all the trauma, just for that.
I'd had no idea how strong the compulsion is to attack, when under threat. It never goes away, until expressed externally. Disturbing, how almost impossible it is to control such a compulsion.
No wonder so many self-medicate.
It's probably accurate to say a personality 'construct', created over many years, unaware of all the 'clues' that were so integral they weren't recognised as being unusual; imploded.
Then all those compartmentalised 'bits' (slowly, with help) reassembled into a very coherent, functioning whole, fully self aware. For the first time the rage was completely blended with the rationality, rather than each fighting for control. Much more stable. And much safer. Well for me anyway 8-)
But attack there has to be, of some kind. If the vulnerability hadn't been resolved to my satisfaction, I think the result would have been very bad indeed.
"I did have flashbacks and was actually diagnosed with PTSD during a brief contact with a therapist"
I've read research papers about PTSD. You have to desensitise yourself to the experience, over a longish period of time, so your mind can come to terms with it. If you avoid doing that, PTSD stays around longer. The experience has to be extinguished in memory, by being accepted and becoming perceived as 'mundane'. Being more fearless than most, I'd say you have good chance of doing that, with a kind therapist, who can pace the perceptual change required.
They might get a bit nervous about the 'lack of empathy' thing though. But don't pretend to have some. Psychologists deserve to have their preconceptions challenged 8-)
XK
XK,
DeleteYour thoughts on vulnerability and on the compulsion to strike when under attack are compelling.
Both are self-protective mechanisms. I want to ponder your viewpoint a little more, there's something in the way you've phrased this that turns some locks in my mind and I want to follow those hallways, an early view that comes to me is that people sometimes talk about sharing vulnerability as a means of building trust in relationships. I wonder if this mechanism creates a kind of shared responsibility for protection against other environmental factors; an efficiency for increased safety. But it's also a risk! Which is why trust shouldn't be given easily (my mistake in the past.)
Definitely a rambling day for me. Apologies for the tangent but please note your expressions are appreciated.
*. An early view...
DeletePTSD to a sociopathic mind is the pain of coming to terms with reality. It's the process of becoming normative. Enjoy the ride. If you're strong enough.
DeleteXK-Thank you for sharing, what your psychologist experiences. I didn't actually think it would be like "Silence of the Lambs". Hollywood feeds us that, so that is a lot of peoples' reference, unfortunately. I agree with North, in that there really needs to be new movies...
ReplyDelete~Vegas
When the mind and body are forced to adapt or die true evolution takes place.
ReplyDeleteAnon @ 4:11-I LOVED THIS QUOTE!!! SO TRUE!!!
Delete~Vegas
Thank you Vegas;-)
DeleteAnon 11:27-You are welcome.:)
Delete~Vegas
My sociofriend's uncanny ability to read people borderlines on the freaky. You simply cannot hide. I got used to it over time but it still catches me off guard once in a while.
ReplyDeleteHe is an ace at manipulating people short term. Yet he is completely oblivious of how his manipulative ways affect people long term and how it is bound to affect him. He is paying the price right now and he is completely bewildered. It is beyond his comprehension exactly why people that have been in his life for years have turned against him. He actually feels betrayed. His words. I have attempted to help him prevent this over the past few years by trying to explain in his terms what to watch for, and I am attempting to explain now what is happening and why so that he can learn from this experience. Not sure how good a job I have been or am doing...
ME in her book mentions going through a period like that in her life, early 30s iirc, where her life fell apart. Xk, it sounds like you have been through this at least once. Can you explain?
OldAndWise
Socio-movie Curve. Doesnt the evildoer in this flick display that quality most genre-films misses: the "terrifying inner void", the "empty horror" of psychopathy? Most socio-villains "are filled" with nasty stuff, when in reality most such people are "devoid of humanity"? Also a fine transformation from nice stranger to bad wolf, in most cases its so obvious from the beginning..
ReplyDeleteSadists maim animals, pure psychopaths DO NOT. "-What´s the purpose?" the latter group ask themselves and rather spend the afternoon in a cats company than with tedious, ordinary & plain people..
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't say it's too far out for us to indulge in that kind of behavior; is it art? Is it sending a message? Is the animal misbehaving in a way that it would seem in the moment to us worth snuffing out it's life? There's many angles to consider, but speaking for myself I don't really indulge in that kind of behavior; cats don't judge, they'll always keep what they've witnessed to themselves a secret, and they're mostly independent and self sufficient besides the basics like food and a litter box, unlike normal people who are so needy and fickle; if for some reason I saw reason to get a cat, I would train it to use the actual toilet though to save me the time and money on kitty litter and encourage it to hunt vermin to save on food expenses. One out of every three house cats is a "stone cold" serial killer, as scientific research says. http://theoatmeal.com/comics/cats_actually_kill
DeleteESTP Sociopath
I DIG CATS!!! I know Mr. Hyde does, too.:)
Delete3 of the 5 house cats I've had, have been "killers".:) Mice, rats, snakes, birds-even large squirrels!!! The squirrels were as large as my cat!!! My cats would always try to bring their dead pray to me, as a gift.:) I didn't want to deal with the dead animals, so I'd have my husband dispose of them.:)
Of the 2 cats that were not "killers"-1 was a female "runt of the litter" that was bullied by her older brother, who was a "killer". The other was a young male feral cat, who I saved, and believe he would have become a "killer", but his life was cut short by a car.:(
I've heard cats can be trained to use the toilet, although I have never trained them to do that, thus far. It would be nice, though-it would be better, than dealing with a litter box...
People are definitely needy and fickle, for sure...
~Vegas
Cats are definitely independent and basically self-sufficient-THAT'S WHY I DIG THEM SO MUCH!!!
Delete~Vegas
CATS RULE!!!
Delete~Vegas
I have found male "Orange Tabby Cats", to be "Serial Killer Cats".:)
DeleteMr. Hyde-What breed is BB???
~Vegas
Correction: it's more like 4 out of 5 house cats are compulsive serial killers, and roughly half of those kills made are simply for the thrill of doing the deed. Fascinating creatures.
DeleteESTP Sociopath
I have never understood why people make fun of cats. The jokes you hear about "women and cats". Cats kill vermin, protect their territory, are low maintenance, and self-sufficient. I don't understand why people make fun of cats. Never underestimate a cat. We only have to look at the "Siegfried & Roy" incident, or how "High Ranking" they are, in the "Animal Kingdom"...
Delete~Vegas
A "pure" socio have no reason to smash his flatscreen tv to pieces, so why would he assault the cat? Why would hyper-rational creatures do senseless things? Movies have lots to answer for, probably 90% of all people have no clue that a serial killer is a "sexual sadist", or just a sadist if its a "thrill-killer", and that psychopathy only is like "removed brakes" for these conditions, its NOT the "urge" to do it. Its when a sadist invader enters the house and tries to cut off the cats tail with scissors the "pure" socio may "get creative", but the cat shouldn´t worry..
ReplyDeleteIrritation can escalate to annihilating rage for us, which in turn can push us to follow through with antisocial behavior; I do not like unnecessary death, as I would like to think that the actions I've decided to follow through with is backed by rational reverse engineering that I'll get the outcome I want, that my actions are to get the direct benefit I want and further my own interests. In that sense, I think you're right. True sadism as traditionally experienced by society requires the prerequisite amount of empathy to understand the emotional reality of others in order to derive relief and pleasure from the sadistic behavior indulged in. I recognize the sadism of society, and it has no genuine appeal to me.
DeleteESTP Sociopath
Interesting, ESTP Sociopath! That's how rationality works with neurotypicals too, even though impulses have an emotional thrust to them.
DeleteAs I've mentioned a few times on this blog, I have had retributive impulses lately. I consider it part of my recovery process; they don't scare me, neither will I act on them. I very occasionally indulge in a planning process, trying out different scenarios to produce the desired outcome. I can follow this process because I'm allowing an expression of myself to be liberated and appeased. I give it voice. It's screaming for a justice, a levelling of the ledger society cannot provide me because as Thomas Szasz says, there are severe limitations to the legal system; most injuries done by one human to another are not illegal. Psychiatry arose in part to address this gap. But I digress.
Once I have allowed this part of me to speak, it rests. My mind evaluates it in the broader context of my goals and settles on I preferring peace to retribution for a complex of reasons.
Facebook very occasionally pops up some gems and last night I found this:
Listen. People start to heal the moment they feel heard.
I know this is true because I feel this process working. That's exactly what happens. It's very, very difficult to explain to anyone unacquainted with such situations the extent of mental disturbance and the reshaping required when one realises they've been personally and without cause plotted against and deceived. It's a lot to make space for. So in lieu of actual social support, listening carefully to myself fills the same function.
But we were talking of cats. One of the INTJF psychopaths told me vivid stories of brutalising and eventually killing his girlfriend's cat. I imagine this occurred in the context of their relationship journey, but he expressed his fascination for watching the life subside from its eyes in his hands.
Psychopaths/Sociopaths-
DeleteRegarding the last paragraph of North's post above: "But we were talking of cats. One of the INTJF psychopaths told me vivid stories of brutalising and eventually killing his girlfriend's cat. I imagine this occurred in the context of their relationship journey, but he expressed his fascination for watching the life subside from its eyes in his hands."
Can anyone expand on the "fascination" for watching "life subside"???
~Vegas
Do you also find it "fascinating", to watch "life increase"???
Delete~Vegas
"True sadism [snip] requires the prerequisite amount of empathy to understand the emotional reality of others in order to derive"
Delete...satisfaction......
"that the actions I've decided to follow through with [are] backed by rational reverse engineering that I'll get the outcome I want, that my actions are to get the direct benefit I want and further my own interests."
Yep. That's sadism.
Cognitive empathy [check]. Instrumental aggression [check]. (Emotional) satisfaction when one's action is effective towards another's affective domain.[check].
(or should one assume that you'd be miserable when you succeeded getting what you want?)
Three for three. No value judgment here, but you are describing sadistic behaviour.
It's a useful tool, when wielded with finesse.
"I recognize the sadism of society, and it has no genuine appeal to me."
And now: the soapbox 8-/:-
Here's a suggestion; (putting the cat among birds, but metaphorically).
If psychopathic, one has the capacity for very effective instrumental aggression. Therefore, targeted sadism against a segment of *society* is likely to prove effective, long-term. It might, conceivably, be a successful activism technique towards society's attitudes regarding people with psychopathic traits.
This is quite possibly a more 'female-style' psychopathic approach as in 'character assassination' of the field of psychology (more specifically, the Hare camp's emotive and judgmental garbage, which judges lap up like cats with cream) than any amount of male externalising 'criminal acting out', which just proves Hare's tautological point.
'Normal' people hate being made to feel guilty, and embarrassed. They seem to need to feel morally 'virtuous'. You know that. Aiming one's irritation at an appropriate segment of society, publicly, is a very risky but potentially rewarding strategy. Until more 'non-criminal' people with this personality style crawl out of the woodwork, society will feel comfortable in its sadism.
Interacting with psychologists (the group responsible for the pseudo-scientific perceptions of the construct, ultimately) over the last year has been an eye-opener, as to how much they don't know, but how much [incorrect] stuff they think they know. Currently they're fighting among themselves over definitions. Still. It's shocking, to put it mildly. You substitute 'autism', or 'homosexuality', and it's the same clueless blundering about with non-scientific suppositions all over again. For decades. I think the field attracts a certain type of 'normal'. Prone to self delusions of intellectual rigour.
XK
XK-Do you think that all psychopaths/sociopaths are "sadistic by nature"???
Delete~Vegas
Of course "only" sociopaths understand that sadists get high/horny/giddy when they rape, torture & kill. Why would they otherwise do it, if it just felt like discarding a soiled napkin, they reason. Its very strange that socios are not seen as being able to "appreciate" objects or living things like other men, sccording to "the lore" they are not able to like a pet & just thinking about how to massacre it! Its crap meant to "lower" the psychopath; its part of the "hate-manuals" describing fiend-aliens from Mars. Socios may "identify" with similar beings in nature, cats being a fine example of this. Psychopaths may also be very negative to the hunting of wolves or other big predators, seeing them as natural rulers of the wild, not to be disturbed by mere humans. This somehow "mirrors" their own vanity..
DeletePsychopaths are passive & indifferent by nature. The "academic checklists" designed to discover that "glib ants-in-pants grinner" are BS. Like some obessive hunt for a snow-white fairy-tale horse in an average stable, maybe one or two can be discovered if the frantic search goes on long enough..?
DeleteI would be inclined to think that sociopath sadism and normal sadism are obviously not equivalent; they are each independently defined, sociopath sadism from our own emotional context that is alien in contrast to the emotional reality of normal people. It is sadism nonetheless, but it is a entirely different animal.
DeleteESTP Sociopath
Anon 2:36-Are you saying that psychopaths/sociopaths don't get high/horny/giddy by raping, torturing, and killing? Instead, it is like discarding a dirty napkin?
DeleteAre you saying psychopaths/sociopaths do appreciate objects and living things?
Anon 2:55-Are you saying that psychopaths/sociopaths are not sadistic, but passive and indifferent? Also, that they are not "glib ants-in-pants grinners"?
I just want to make sure I understand...
~Vegas
@ Anon 2.55pm:
Delete"Psychopaths are passive & indifferent by nature."
LOL. Yeah right. LOL. Do give references to the cross-sectional or longitudinal random-sample twin studies across ethnicly diverse populations research results that suggest this...enquiring minds would lo..ove to know.
Oh, what? Can't? How about that.
@ ESTP 3.16 pm:
"I would be inclined to think that sociopath sadism and normal sadism are obviously not equivalent; they are each independently defined, sociopath sadism from our own emotional context that is alien in contrast to the emotional reality of normal people. It is sadism nonetheless, but it is a entirely different animal."
Splitting hairs I suggest; I said the behaviour is the same; the motive ie. which emotional reward is sought, is different, as in your "entirely different animal".
Well, it's been 'fun'. Off for the day's tasks now. Oops, wait. I forgot. I'm "passive and indifferent by nature". Guess the washing up won't get done after all.
XK
This isn't to shame you, but constructive criticism: Drop the pettiness, or if that is the emotional mode you really want, I will speak with you civilly regardless as the respect I show for you is what I would hope you will give in return to me; good relationships are built with effective diplomacy, and if proper compromises cannot be found that suit both parties there is nothing to base the relationship on. I wish to have nothing more than constructive conversations here in the comments sections of this blog. If you have an issue with me, address it plainly to me and we will see if something can be done about it.
DeleteWhat other people's misconceptions of my personality is on them for not being better informed. We can have clarification through our conversations here though.
ESTP Sociopath
Also XK, if you need clarification, my previous comment from above was simply commentary to explorate and express my further thoughts on the subject of sadism. You're being so guarded and reactive because you're projecting your empathy onto me, assuming that I'm being aggressive with you; as far as I could discern we were hopefully having a polite chat. My cognitive empathy is only as useful as what emotional cues I perceive to be occuring with you, so do clarify if I am misunderstanding you. I only wish for more effective communication between the two of us.
DeleteESTP Sociopath
XK, I agree with your analysis of sadism, which is taking pleasure in the pain of others.
DeleteI am, however, not clear on why sadism would be useful in an activism campaign. Strategy, yes. Reasonably discrediting alternative stances, naturally. Negotiation, persuasion as a better of course. Building momentum and mindshare etc.
One objective of such a campaign is to shift mindsets. This requires you to convince as best you are capable. Doubtless many psychopathic strengths will be valuable but sadism? If there is sadistic pleasure in the campaign, fine, but it will make for a less effective campaign if it's even close to a primary objective.
*matter of course
DeleteI agree with you on those points, North. Sadism doesn't really have a good usage in activism. Say, for instance my activism on the Whisper phone app, would it benefit me to express my message sadistically? Rationally I would think not, so instead I do my best to take a civil diplomatic approach; I hold a staunch stance my diplomacy, and if any of the normal people emotionally lash out at me, I speak with what I best believe to be politeness and respect on my part in order to facilitate civil conversations. Because of my diplomatic approach with my activism for sociopath rights, I've had some degree of success; Those intelligent enough to critically consider and examine my case because they're intelligent enough to do so means I've then successfully educated them to be better informed so as to not hold prejudice against me.
DeleteESTP Sociopath
It's a wise approach, ESTP Sociopath. If you wish to scale up your campaign and seek a neurotypical perspective, I'd be happy to contribute.
DeleteNorth I do agree you begin to heal as soon as you feel you are heard. I really like posting here. I completely understand how you feel and I hear you loud and clear! And somehow reading things posted by sociopaths is oddly comforting to me at times. But without another voice to balance it out it would be all too familiar.
DeleteThanks Anon 7:28. I feel the same - perhaps because it's a validation that I really didn't dream those things. And a bit more perspective on why they happened.
DeleteYes, I like the balance here. It's generally very constructive.
North I also understand how frustrating it is to be innocent. Maybe some people here don't understand that. Being innocent and abused in such a cruel and senseless way. You are still innocent. They can't take that away.
DeleteThanks Anon. I lost my innocence too - I acted callous and duplicitously - but that's not my nature and I don't persist in those actions. I want to heal and flow from a spring of positive energy within me :)
DeleteThanks again. And I hope you have found a healing balm to flow over your injuries.
" One of the INTJF psychopaths "
DeleteWhat is that ? An mbti forum ?
Yes, INTJForum.com. I hang out there sometimes under a different name.
DeletePsychopaths/Sociopaths-
ReplyDeleteRegarding M.E.'s tweet: "Knowing someone has run a personal campaign designed to injure you. That's what changes everything about your understanding of humanity."
Would you say that you have done this to people and/or have people done this to you?
~Vegas
If I am assuming correctly, she's talking about society's vilification of sociopathy. That's what insight I've gleamed from those words, or what I'm cognitively projecting based on my own recent thinking.
DeleteESTP Sociopath
I wrote that in a comment here... Although I imagine M.E. might understand applications in other contexts.i think it's perfectly fine to appropriate ideas and reapply them in ways we find personally useful.
DeleteI actually meant to say 'to injure you without just cause.' Because that was previously incomprehensible, that someone would just choose to hurt me for no reason other than that he felt like it. I didn't even know him when he made the decision to create that campaign. I certainly hadn't done anything to him, barely said a word. I try not to apply labels but 'cunt' fits nicely. Yet I am here because I know it's insufficient and unhelpful to simply apply a label or complain. I have to change myself, and shape what I can in society.
North-
DeleteI knew I had seen the message in that tweet here before, and thought it might be yours.:)
How do you think they choose who they are going "to injure without just cause"??? Do you think it's random, or not???
Your "cunt" label, made me giggle.:)
~Vegas
Glad you liked it, Vegas, that makes me smile too :) so thanks!
DeleteOh, I don't deny I was easy pickings. I was in a very weak position personally and professionally and he took all of 5 minutes to figure that out, I imagine. We were assigned to work together and we set at the same desk (it's a bench, really) in touching distance for more than two months straight before he even made a move. But I know he was intending it from the start because he brought a colleague, K, into our conversations after maybe 3 or 4 days. K was his secondary source of supply, his source of credibility in my eyes, because K is indeed a credible person. K and I are still good friends. Obviously, **-* had excellent time and space for reconnaissance, observed me in all my moods. Looking back, I can even tell you what his explicit research was, but I didn't imagine at the time what he was doing. I showed him a video clip once - he watched it for a minute longer than what I expected and then said 'thankyou.' There's only one reason a thankyou makes sense in that context - he was taking in information about my preferences. It was a documentary about Phillipe Petit, the man who walked a tightrope between the twin towers. I should watch it again, it occurs to me now that guy was probably dark triad. He reminded me of my dad.
Clearly in a rambling mood today.
Why do you think you were chosen?
Oh, and one more point. Psychopaths / sociopaths ( I use the terms interchangeably depending on whether I am thinking of **-* or whether my focus is on this blog environment) might like to be aware that their work capitalises on childhood and other historical patterns in their target. Sometimes I have the impression that **-* believes he 'created' all that. He mainly exploited my existing patterns and pain, escalating the intensity to the level where I had to act.
North-Everything you said, resonates with me!!!
DeleteI believe there were a lot of reasons, that I was "chosen".
I like this quote from the movie "Point of No Return", and it is one of the reasons, I was "easy prey"...
"Maggie", played by Bridget Fonda:
Oh, I think she's saying, "Stick it in me twice a day, and I'll do anything for you. I'll lick the ground you walk on."
~Vegas
Oh, lol. I can understand that :)
DeleteNorth-I BET YOU CAN!!!
DeleteLike I said-the 2nd best I've ever had.:)
"Delivered" often and well.:)
~Vegas
North-
DeleteThe "I'll do anything for you" applies more than the "I'll lick the ground you walk on" part, for me.:)
~Vegas
Oh, I am glad to hear that. Yes, even neurotypicals do a cost-benefit analysis.
DeleteNorth-
DeleteIndeed we, do.:)
~Vegas
3:19 If the socio has no "sadean" personality he´ll see no point in doing what sadists relish. The sadist seems like a psychotic madman lost in fantasy, even to the psycho. Of course socios appreciate fine clothing or exotic wildlife like everyone else. Psychopathy has its roots in "autism" which more often creates "blank & still people" than the "manic salesmen" of the checklists..
ReplyDelete"The most unpleasant loss of power to me is being rejected by someone as a despicable human being. I hate that, it makes me very very angry to the point of a violent all consuming rage, which is its own form of loss of power." ~ from M.E.'s blog post, "Power and obsessions"
ReplyDeleteI just saw your tweet and read your linked blog post, and this bit, and actually the entire blog post you wrote M.E. is eerily like listening to my own sociopathic inner monologue.
Just the other night I was pushing myself to ruminate over why society villifies us, and my irritation quickly snowballed into annihilating rage. I had a friend over while this was occuring and had to bluntly ask them to leave immediately as my mask of normalcy was beginning to peel off; my hand was itching to grab a knife and unleash my rage on anything.
ESTP Sociopath
"The most unpleasant loss of power to me is being rejected by someone as a despicable human being.
DeleteThat happens to everyone sooner or later. No matter how nice, good or ethical you are.
I hate that, it makes me very very angry to the point of a violent all consuming rage, which is its own form of loss of power." ~ from M.E.'s blog post, "Power and obsessions"
"I just saw your tweet and read your linked blog post, and this bit, and actually the entire blog post you wrote M.E. is eerily like listening to my own sociopathic inner monologue.
Just the other night I was pushing myself to ruminate over why society villifies us, and my irritation quickly snowballed into annihilating rage. I had a friend over while this was occuring and had to bluntly ask them to leave immediately as my mask of normalcy was beginning to peel off; my hand was itching to grab a knife and unleash my rage on anything."
Fascinating. And scary.
I've experienced being rejected on this level, too. Not because I'm a sociopath. But because I'm weirdly passionate about all life. All the strange and taboo things in life has always tripped my circuits.
So it goes.
I don't understand why a knife appears suddenly productive to you in the circumstances described. People get rejected in awful variety every day. Why do you feel it necessary to game, exploit and/or destroy others? I do want to understand.
Disappearing into the woodwork of life is easy. All I have to do is want less material goods, recognition, and focus on the life force that others feed me and ignore others who do not.
The sun shines and the rain falls for everyone alike, human, plant or animal.
A blade of grass winds up decomposing and feeding the soil or it nourishes the flesh of a cow. It's all good when looking at the fertility that comes out the back end. The pungent compost of things produces life.
Mr. Hyde
Mr. Hyde!!! THERE YOU ARE!!! I missed you, and was starting to worry.:(
Delete~Vegas
PS Mr. Hyde-Do you like the "Song of the Day", today???
Delete~Vegas (aka "Musical Anon")
It's lovely to read you again, Mr Hyde. Your comment reminds me of Alan Watts:
DeleteWhat is discord at one layer of reality is harmony at the next level up.
I love that Alan watts quote. M.E. speaking of loss of power from being regarded as a despicable human reminds me of north saying "the spell has been broken." that Is the end result. Behind that is repulsion. It is overwhelming. Like clockwork orange.
DeleteAnon 12:45-
DeleteI told North that I likened it to "The Wizard of Oz", when "Dorothy & Friends" discover "The Wizard", is just an ordinary man behind a curtain. "The Show" is over. I haven't seen "Clockwork Orange", but I've heard it referenced a lot-I NEED TO SEE IT!!!
~Vegas
Anon 12:45 and Vegas
DeleteThat makes sense of my current experience. Thanks.
The central character shares his name.
It's been a big day. I'll sleep now.
Anon 3:36-Thank you, for your response.:)
ReplyDeleteWhat is the root of the "manic salesmen"?
~Vegas
ESTP-
ReplyDeleteI just realized what was happening, when I inadvertently irritated you. I tend to repeat back what someone has said, to make sure, that I am understanding their meaning. I will also often ask the same or similar questions, for more information, or to attempt to understand something from a different angle...
I apologize for the irritiation. It was not intended...
~Vegas
Do not burden yourself with more guilt then necessary; guilt is a primitive emotion meant to be a emotional incentive within the mind of the normal person, to spur them into seeking the right action to shift their emotional state to a more healthier one. However anymore that lingers after a solution has been made is self inflicted misery, as I would cognitively understand.
DeleteI told you what I needed of you to have more constructive conversations with you, and that has happened so far as I can discern. Banish anymore guilt though, it does you no more good since you've come to the right conclusion.
ESTP Sociopath
ESTP
DeleteI missed your response to my previous questions, posted above. Would you please repeat posting anything you said earlier that failed to stick?
I value your perspective.
"guilt is a primitive emotion..."
I humbly disagree. Guilt rarely manifests in predatory animals. Only higher cognitively and emotionally aware creatures appear inclined to feel guilt for hurting others.
"meant to be a emotional incentive within the mind of the normal person, to spur them into seeking the right action to shift their emotional state to a more healthier one. However anymore that lingers after a solution has been made is self inflicted misery, as I would cognitively understand."
I do agree with this sentiment that ruminating in guilt is destructive. No good comes from beating yourself over the head. Changing one's own reflex behavior and embracing the concept that one cannot change the minds of others who will not or cannot consider change, is key.
Mr. Hyde
Mr. Hyde-
Delete"I do agree with this sentiment that ruminating in guilt is destructive. No good comes from beating yourself over the head. Changing one's own reflex behavior and embracing the concept that one cannot change the minds of others who will not or cannot consider change, is key."
Spoken to pure perfection.:)
~Vegas
I don't have much to say in regard to your questions, Mr. Hyde, as it seems you've more or less answered them for me. I like your input, and it is appreciated.
DeleteESTP Sociopath
3:52 There are a wide variety of "human types" & some sociopaths are born as (zodiac) gemini & leo-types: social talkers defying the mentioned "deadpan autistic gravity" of the basic condition. Self-appointed experts with checklists & books love these, they´ve made them the "standard minority" for reasons unknown. Maybe they fit better into movies than the silent majority?
ReplyDelete4:22-YES!!! I know a few of the "Gemini & Leo" types.:) Definitely "social talkers".:)
ReplyDelete~Vegas
4:22-They are "social talkers" around others, but exude the "deadpan autistic gravity", in private...
Delete~Vegas
4:22-I think this is why people often make reference to "Jekyll & Hyde"...
Delete~Vegas
ESTP Sociopath's comment at 3:52 has kinda triggered a boil over and I'm just going to rant now...
ReplyDelete****** RANT ******
After our breakup, **-* attempted to seduce me at an offsite work function. I ignored him, but toward the end of the evening, I allowed him to sense my very best death stare, my utter contempt for him. He turned to meet my gaze and I held him for a moment with a sneer, then looked away.
He was very upset, although he could do nothing in that moment. As soon as he was able, he escaped to the bus. I had been smart enough to drive my own car there. It was another week before I told him I knew he was sociopathic, and that I had sent a letter to his wife (I had done this before I worked it out). That was our last conversation. He was certainly very angry then. The last thing he said to me was "You didn't tell me."
No I didn't. You lost control, you dumb, arrogant fuck. Sooo fucking overconfident. And he came at me later with language of being a Mastermind! He picked the stupidest strategy for revenge, took me into territory in which I completely outclassed him. He thought he 'won' that day because I didn't press a charge against him. What a fool. I CHOSE not to because I don't want to live my life in the courts. And he conceded a lot of ground; I won more than equal legal rights by establishing a pattern of his abuse before the court. I won myself legal safety that day, with nothing held on my record. More than that, I physically showed him I was not isolated and that he is no match for me. Again, it was arrogance and underestimation of my character and intelligence. He thought he would both doubly hurt me and defeat me at the same time because I had been upset on the day my ex-husband first faced court. He didn't bother to learn the outcome of that case - I managed it to perfection, all balls and artistry and timing on my part to get the ideal outcome. But fucking **-* lacks imagination in his arrogance and even though this information was available to him, he didn't seek it and his strategy only proved to me he was 6 months behind in his understanding of me. It proved to me he is static, that he can't adapt, and that he is shallow-minded. I, of course, already knew strategy is not his strong point. And that 'mastermind' language stopped when he received his copy of the documents I submitted to the court and he finally realised what I had done.
When it comes down to it, he runs away because I blasted his fucking chessboard off the planet and left him nothing to leverage. I was more powerful than him at work and he left. He had been there three and half years longer than me and you know how many people spoke to him at his farewell- none. Piece of shit.
It's one thing to play games in the darkness, quite another when someone has you figured out YOUR patterns, **-*.
An ISFP male psychopath taking on this INTJ female? Systems are our strong point and his is cracked. I know his levers; he lost his grip on mine. He became my lab rat, my intellectual playground. I broadcast that which he wanted secret. I dominate him without it even being my intention to. I really want to stress that - it's the SOURCE of my contempt - that he LOST HIS OWN FUCKING STUPID GAME. And my learning and self-protection, my own healing leaves him running scared? How can I not feel contempt for that shadow! Well, contempt and pity. But right now, it's contempt.
Do I think he is superior to me in any way? No. He's a lightweight. A lightweight. Love is not a victory march, but this was HIS game, not mine.
****** /RANT ******
There's the vitriolic element of my response to **-*. I've been wanting to get it off my chest. I want to move beyond this but don't want to deny it in myself either. I saw a photo of him on FB the other day and realised I feel that same relaxation and affection just looking at him. But that can't be the whole picture - the anger in me is protective and powerful, and ultimately is teaching me not to accept that sort of treatment. The good things he offers come at far too great a cost, although they *were* worth paying for at the time. But it's enough now. I want to concentrate my energy on exploring new horizons, the limitless good things I am capable of experiencing. I have known the world to be as 'red in tooth and claw', but it's one corner in a rich tapestry. I want to find new fractals.
DeleteNorth-I DIG THIS SIDE OF YOU!!! YOU GO GIRL!!! WOO-HOO!!!
DeleteWhat about ESTP's post, lit the fire within???
~Vegas
North-THE SONG OF THE DAY IS FOR YOU, SISTER!!!
DeleteAdele's "Set Fire To The Rain"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlsBObg-1BQ
~Vegas
Adele
Delete"Set Fire To The Rain"
I let it fall, my heart,
And as it fell you rose to claim it
It was dark and I was over
Until you kissed my lips and you saved me
My hands, they're strong
But my knees were far too weak,
To stand in your arms
Without falling to your feet
But there's a side to you
That I never knew, never knew.
All the things you'd say
They were never true, never true,
And the games you play
You would always win, always win.
[Chorus:]
But I set fire to the rain,
Watched it pour as I touched your face,
Well, it burned while I cried
'Cause I heard it screaming out your name, your name!
When I lay with you
I could stay there
Close my eyes
Feel you here forever
You and me together
Nothing gets better
'Cause there's a side to you
That I never knew, never knew,
All the things you'd say,
They were never true, never true,
And the games you'd play
You would always win, always win.
[Chorus:]
But I set fire to the rain,
Watched it pour as I touched your face,
Well, it burned while I cried
'Cause I heard it screaming out your name, your name!
I set fire to the rain
And I threw us into the flames
When it fell, something died
'Cause I knew that that was the last time, the last time!
Sometimes I wake up by the door,
That heart you caught must be waiting for you
Even now when we're already over
I can't help myself from looking for you.
[Chorus:]
I set fire to the rain,
Watched it pour as I touched your face,
Well, it burned while I cried
'Cause I heard it screaming out your name, your name
I set fire to the rain,
And I threw us into the flames
When it fell, something died
'Cause I knew that that was the last time, the last time, ohhhh!
Oh noooo
Let it burn, oh
Let it burn
Let it burn
~Vegas
{{{{Vegas}}}}
DeleteThankyou.
ESTP's comment reminded me it is contempt I have been feeling.
North-
DeleteYOU ARE WELCOME!!!
THE "QUOTE OF THE DAY" IS FOR YOU TOO, SISTA!!!
Quote of the Day:
"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"
-William Congreve.
~Vegas
So true, Vegas!!! Nice one!
DeleteAnd doesn't it make perfect sense? The implications of biological and social resource investment risk are very high for a woman in sexual situations particularly. To find one has been tricked into making investments they wouldn't otherwise have made *should* (within the human sociobiological context) prompt outrage as a disincentive for the male and as a learning process for the female*. Evolution hasn't caught up with contraception just yet ;)
*recalling that emotional experiences encourage neuroplasticity. Strong emotional reactions prompt us to ask why (to learn) and to protect ourselves and our genepool. That it takes time is ok; I am so intrigued and appreciative of the process. I am just filled with wonder at how opening up doors in my mind allow healing, which is real neurological change. It's simply incredible to experience, I can barely express the wonder and joy I feel at this mechanism. It's so very true: we do begin to heal when we feel heard. Thankyou Vegas and Anon 7:28 for hearing me today.
North-
DeleteEven if I don't always comment-know that I am always "hearing you".:)
I LOVED YOUR PASSION TODAY!!!
You felt the need to be "passionate", and I needed to read some "passion"!!!
The "Universe" is always unfolding as it should.:)
~Vegas
So it, Vegas, so it is. And couldn't be otherwise!
DeleteGlad it served your turn too!
North-
DeleteIT DEFINITELY DID!!!
FEEL FREE TO "RANT AT WILL"!!!
~Vegas
I so understand the WTF?! They so thought they had it in the bag with me. I could hear the absolute shock in their voice when they realized they didn't. It really caught them off guard. I don't know why?! Arrogance breeds stupidity I guess. My brilliant dr/ guru put it best. "they just are like duh.... "
DeleteI hope I'm not the only one who read the post and thought "is this person really so far gone that they can't see the obvious reality in front of them"? Yes when your full of yourself because 1) it's your nature, 2) you've thus far gotten away with your "games" and have gotten even more confident and arrogant --- and all of a sudden life forces you to taste a little bit of what you've inflicted on others take it as a blessing and learn. It means God is giving you a chance to come back to reality by reminding you 1) how it feels to be on the receiving end, 2) it can and will be a lot worse if you persist.
ReplyDeleteHistory and literature and actual life events all around us show time and time again that you can't get away with sociopathic behavior forever YET people delude themselves and fall prey to others' deceptions because they lack discipline and foresight (among other reasons...arrogance, envy, enslaved by their own lusts etc).
You're lucky that you've taken a major beating IF you mature up, regrow the brain you've destroyed and return to reality. If you're a moron and persist in selling your integrity for your lower instincts, well brace yourself for the next beating which will be worse than this one.
PTSD can be - as it seems to be in your case - a result of trauma that's in essence self-inflicted. It's your cue - quit being a deluded, self-obsessed minion before it's worse.
Peace.
Test for ESTP S.
Delete(Part 2)
DeleteThere's hope for sociopaths in that of course it isn't our sociopathy, our personality traits, that is the issue so much as the real issue is our maladaptive coping mechanisms used to try and meet the bottomline of what society expects of normal people; if we are willing to open our minds to having a better model of perception of reality, we can be higher functioning perhaps very possibly to a point that is accepted by society. Malignant narcissists like yourself, if I'm reading into you correctly, don't seem to have much of chance for self betterment. Sociopaths are capable of humility, but narcissists are too oblivious or completely deny the reality of their own personality disorder; stupidity and/or blind arrogance is their downfall.
I'm quite aware of the fact posting this gives you your narc' supply, but I enjoy the prospect of being stimulated with intellectual sparing that might possibly (no harm in optimism, right?) lead to enlightening you so that you can better contribute to the constructive conversations we have here.
ESTP Sociopath
North-You were able to post the 2nd half of ESTP's post!!!
DeleteESTP-Were you here, when Jonaid was here before??? Posting absolutely gives him his narc supply.:( He took over the blog for some time, and everyone tried to get rid of him, to no avail.:( Luckily, he went on a trip, and we've had a reprieve.:) Now, he's back.:( If anyone can get rid of him, or at least attempt to keep him under control, I think it's you ESTP.:) Like Neo in The Matrix-for this assignment, you are "The One"...
~Vegas
Hello Jonaid, I would like to hold a mirror up to you and call out your narcissist sadism. I don't mean to so much as shame you as I do want to offer my constructive criticism; we want to have civil, constructive conversations here in the comments section of this blog and I think we would all appreciate it if you would be willing to show the politeness and respect that you would also expect of us. Earlier I highlighted the victim mindset, how part of being a victim of trauma is to voluntarily ruminate upon negativity and powerlessness without using rational thinking to find valid solutions to shift their mind state to a healthier one; solutions can be found and applied, it is simply a matter of will power and using one's power of observation and therefore intelligence to take in all the right data to create solutions.
DeleteWith your comment, you did not supply any kind of compassion; sociopaths, if we want to present a positive image for ourselves because it is in our best interests when it comes to meeting the bottomline, may voluntarily show compassion in a way that also gives those we choose to interact with better agency for themselves because not only is it for their own benefit, it's convenient for us; healthier tools can be more efficient tools. Narcissists like yourself sadistically lash out without the forethought of reverse engineering to get desirable outcomes very frequently, all for the sake of misbehaving in a way that draws the attention they so desperately seek, that you so desperately want Jonaid. That much is strongly suggested by your choice of words, "quit being a deluded, self-obsessed minion before it's worse".
DeleteNorth-
DeleteYOU DID IT!!!
YOU GO, GIRL!!!
YOU ROCK!!!
~Vegas
The help is appreciated, North. Now to wait and see what counter argument Jonaid will launch to dissapprove my evaluation of him. I'm interested in what kind of outcome will come of this.
DeleteESTP Sociopath
ESTP-
DeleteIf Jonaid does what he did before, it will be a non-stop afront.:(
"A" more than "matched" him for quite some time, but alas-people have lives they need to lead...
Many were so tired of reading Jonaid's posts, that they left, or stopped bothering trying to post.:(
~Vegas
PS ESTP-
DeleteThere is A LOT about The Quran, Muslims, and Muhammad...
~Vegas
NM-Are you alive and well???
ReplyDelete~Vegas
No problems posting from this side of the planet ESTP Sociopath.
ReplyDeleteWait! Your post just disappeared! That sometimes happens to me as well.
DeleteIs the blog having technical issues for anyone else at the moment? My posts keep disappearing, and I might have a grasp of why (or I'm shooting bullets in the dark. Regardless, critical consideration is fair), so I'll just be content with the fact it is as it should be.
ReplyDeleteTest test.
ESTP Sociopath
ESTP-It was an issue for me, for a moment...
ReplyDelete~Vegas
Every time I reply to a certain post, the internet is seemingly whisking it away or so it would appear to be.
DeleteESTP Sociopath
Really???
DeleteIt is working fine for me, now...
~Vegas
I've tried to repost, and left the page and came back; the post stayed within that time frame.
DeleteESTP Sociopath
ESTP, I did see a post of yours that subsequently disappeared. This implies it is a server side issue.
DeleteCuriouser and curiouser. Anyone else want to try posting in reply to a certain post? Here's a hint: narc' supply.
DeleteESTP Sociopath
Thank you for the clarification, North. In the mean time I'll keep trying to repost.
DeleteESTP Sociopath
Lol ESTP, I liked your tone and was glad of your post. I don't want to engage him, but I will try a test.
DeleteLooks like you best me to it
DeleteBeat
DeleteIt's gone again! ME, what's happening?
DeleteMaybe clear your cookies anyway, ESTP S
I suggest breaking it into two parts. I tried posting it for you to (under the name For ESTP (testing)) but that also disappeared.
DeleteThis happened to me last month. Splitting in two sorted it
ESTP & North-I did see ESTP's post, but it did indeed disappear, before I could read it.:(
DeleteFYI...
~Vegas
Part 1 won't stick around for some reason. No matter, Part 2 gets an adequate message across. I'll leave it at that I think.
DeleteESTP Sociopath
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ReplyDeleterumah dijual
ReplyDeleterumah kampung
rumah kampung
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