A therapist reader wrote, among other things, this observation:
"I believe sociopathy, like any other incapacity, can be improved upon by a relentless search for truth and love through an acceptance that good and evil powers drive our lives from a deep spiritual level. We need to get used to spotting which is which and going for the good one every time. That always yields healing and always leads to happiness for us and those we influence. If we keep doing these good things, they grow in us and it gets easier. Peace, happiness and identity just roll in."
My response:
I do think that everybody has an identity, a core identity that came with us from birth and is written into our genes and would have expressed itself much the same no matter where in the multiverse "we" currently are. That identity is never rooted in any sort of evil, never corrupted by this society and its well-meaning or malicious attempts to mold people. Everyone is like a computer that has a backup version stored somewhere, not corrupted viruses or user error or anything else. And if you can just get back to that backup version and restore the harddrive to that, no more virus, no more sociopathy, no more of any type of personality disorder.
What do people think about that analogy?
"I believe sociopathy, like any other incapacity, can be improved upon by a relentless search for truth and love through an acceptance that good and evil powers drive our lives from a deep spiritual level. We need to get used to spotting which is which and going for the good one every time. That always yields healing and always leads to happiness for us and those we influence. If we keep doing these good things, they grow in us and it gets easier. Peace, happiness and identity just roll in."
My response:
I do think that everybody has an identity, a core identity that came with us from birth and is written into our genes and would have expressed itself much the same no matter where in the multiverse "we" currently are. That identity is never rooted in any sort of evil, never corrupted by this society and its well-meaning or malicious attempts to mold people. Everyone is like a computer that has a backup version stored somewhere, not corrupted viruses or user error or anything else. And if you can just get back to that backup version and restore the harddrive to that, no more virus, no more sociopathy, no more of any type of personality disorder.
What do people think about that analogy?
I don't know about sociopathy ME, but my own healing has been like this... Perhaps more like a one-by-one process of removing viruses and allowing more functionality to operate. And that feels like flourishing.
ReplyDeleteI was reflecting today that I woke every morning feeling scared. I felt a little like that today when I woke, only I know now that sensation is not fear. It's some as yet unknown emotion trapped inside. I've learnt to be patient and wait for it instead of kicking it down further. Eventually the feeling emerges and I have a new opportunity to grow more into the person I can be.
I test fairly highly for narcissism on those Internet tests, usually 17 or 18 where 20 signals narcissism. I'm sure all my siblings would; perhaps my youngest sister would be across the threshold. I'm noticing - since I'm allowing myself to feel more - I sometimes feel vulnerable now and I haven't dealt with this as well as I might have. I read somewhere last night that for someone like me learning to share vulnerability is an important step to healing.
That seems to be a theme for me right now. Vegas posted about Brene Breen (I hope I got that right) and I remember wanting to avoid that; I wasn't ready. Perhaps now I am 'cause it keeps resurfacing. I even mentioned last week about sharing vulnerability with my colleague (former boss) and how good that felt. And here I am carrying on about shared risk and what not - I suppose it's that I know I'm capable of that and I want that and I erroneously thought I could do that with **-*. I thought he was safe, and that's why I was so devastated. But I was right, in a way: I am capable of that and now it's a matter of growing into that with more awareness and discernment.
All the best in your quest ME. One thing I believe is that the brain seeks integration, a flowing balance between all its capabilities. It's infinitely capable of healing itself: you have the vision and belief and by your reports are making progress so long may that continue.
*I was reflecting today that for all my lifeI woke every morning feeling scared.
DeleteNorth, I agree with the notion of being able to feel your feelings completely being a pathway towards healing and getting back to that uncorrupted self. Perhaps it's both being able to identify and honor yourself and your feelings, and to be able to upon realizing what you're feeling make a choice that is as the therapist suggests in being able to do good. I think that there is a balance between doing what is good for oneself and what is good for the external world, and also I feel like these things play upon each other in feelings of guilt, shame, etc. I also feel like truth as we know it can only truly be gained internally as we know ourselves much more than we know anyone or anything else. We can glean things from other people, by the way they interact with us based on our behaviors, which then has a positive or negative feedback loop to how we feel.
DeleteFor me I know that in the past I've learned to cope with my feelings by ignoring them to the point that they no longer emerge and I just feel blank and numb. This is an example of what it is to not know my own truth. For a long while it was much easier to not feel then to feel things at all. Interestingly though if I did feel anything it would just usually emerge as a sense of uneasiness or anxiety. That’d be the only feeling I’d really felt for a long time. The binary between either anxious, or not anxious. I’m feeling now that the reason for that was in part a feeling of embarrassment about feeling anything, which also could be seen as an embarrassment for existing. I’m very unemotive towards others as a general rule, and its difficult for me to form any sort of trusting relationship unless I trust them enough to have very basic emotion with them. Going back to the internal and external feelings I realized that by doing things for other people (I would consider myself to be a recovering empath) that I then would try to absolve myself from feeling embarrassed or guilty about anything that I did wrong to them or to myself. Additionally I would give of myself things that I didn’t have to give; time, emotional energy, resources. I had absolutely no boundaries when it came to other people wanting things from me, up to the point where people didn’t have to ask me for anything, I would just give to people in order to make myself feel better for their unfortunate circumstances. I pitied others when really I should have pitied myself for not taking care of myself and my emotional needs. I blamed others for my feeling bad when really I now feel that I just didn’t trust myself and take care of myself. From not trusting myself to make the healthy decisions for myself that I need how could I trust anyone else to take care of those needs for me? I couldn’t.
Duality, that could be my story too, only you've explained it far more clearly. All of it resonated.
DeleteI'm glad you're recovering too.
Embarrassment - reading that sent a bit of a tingle through me. It's a new recognition so I don't know what to do with it yet, although I have some ideas where it came from!!!
"there is a balance between doing what is good for oneself and what is good for the external world, and also I feel like these things play upon each other in feelings of guilt, shame, etc"
I agree, and I think guilt and shame etc help us find the balance. They are signals - like fear or sadness - that something needs to be addressed.
You write that you had no boundaries and pitied others when you should have taken care of yourself. I had this same realisation and that the love I poured on my husband initially and even with **-* was the love I hoped someone would give me. Now I am free to invest that energy into meeting my own needs.
I think as adults we *are* capable of meeting our own needs. Our feelings are our allies in this, even if they take time to emerge and speak, it's worth the investment. I think once we do take care of ourselves, relationships can be valuable and not fraught.
From your last paragraph, I read you are learning to trust yourself more?? What has been helpful in your journey?
North, I agree with your idea that our emotions are our allies in becoming functioning adults. I think that they can be uncomfortable to confront, but I agree that they can make for more rewarding interactions with others and more satisfaction with life in general.
Deletehttp://coda.org/index.cfm/meeting-materials1/patterns-of-recovery/ this list has been extremely helpful for me to define further some of the behaviors on the left column that I exhibit and the behaviors I hope to work towards on the right column to be able to take care of myself. I feel like it’s different for everyone who has codependency issues, but it seems like some of the behaviors of both empathetic and sociopathic individuals are clearly outlined in the list.
In regards to feelings of guilt and shame something that has helped me to trust myself more is to be able to recognize my own behaviors that lead to those feelings, and to be able to change my behaviors so I’m not emotionally tormenting myself further. For example I'm chronically late, everywhere. I then in order to save face have to constantly apologize or find some reason that I'm late, and then I feel both guilty that I’ve inconvenienced someone and ashamed that I’m always late and can’t manage my time. I usually have 4-5 appointments per day, so after having to apologize to 5 different people for my disorganization I’m feeling pretty bad about myself. By recognizing that I'm making myself feel bad by being late I've been able to improve on my timeliness, and thus don't have to always apologize to people. Also another thing that has been difficult but helpful for me has been not to offer people help if they don’t expressly ask for it. I think that this is related to the timeliness thing, in that if I feel guilty for being late I’ll push my help on other people to make up for it. I find in my work (I’m a case worker for people with mental illnesses) it’s very easy for me to exhaust my empathetic nature and insist on helping people, or offering them help when they aren’t asking for help. This ties in with the whole timeliness thing in another way in if I offer to help someone who isn’t asking for it, it usually means that I’m going to be late for my next meeting, as well as over stressed and over worked by my own hand. A lot of it for me is being able to manage my time appropriately, organize myself, and to be able to plan for how I’m going to be able to maintain myself during the day. In essence by not subjecting myself to emotional torment at my own hand it helps me to start to trust myself more, and thus it becomes easier for me to continue to take care of myself because there are positive rewards in me not feeling like crap. The next step for me I feel like is being able to maintain my boundaries with people who are overwhelming or who ask things of me that I’m not willing to give, and to say no to people. I think with everything there is a balance and in boundaries I need to explore where those are and what I’m comfortable with and not comfortable with and how to appropriately express it.
Duality:
DeleteI used to have most of these traits you describe and still have some. I became disillusioned with life during my teen years and went from being one of the smartest students in school to not caring about my future at all. During this time I noticed I began to procrastinate a lot, daydream, became increasing shy & anxious when meeting people, and in general always felt like a "failure," and ashamed. Years later, when I was 22, everything turned upside and I became almost the opposite of what I had been til then. Then external problems gradually brought me down again until I had my "awakening."
If I read you correctly, you sound like someone who is much too tough on themselves - relative to other people. This appears to be an unhealthy trait but - speaking from personal experience - I think it becomes a source of genuine confidence in oneself later on. Most people seem to be more confident in themselves because they decided to put more faith in themselves prematurely (that is, without truly earning it). You just don't freely give yourself credit, and probably withhold it when it is deserved (out of a subconscious fear that it is not truly deserved). Again, it would seem to be an unhealthy trait - it is an extreme form of humility - and God rewards the humble in ways He does not reward anyone else.
Remain sincere to yourself and others and you'll be overjoyed one day that you went through all this in your life.
Thanks Duality. It's good that seemingly simple decisions to take care of one's self have these positive flow on effects. I liked reading about the positive effects you've found from taking care of yourself. That's inspiring - a good message.
DeleteThanks for the link. It's powerful stuff; a little confronting but helpful.
My dad phoned on the weekend. We talked about lots of things for ages including my rugby, which I was feeling a bit vulnerable about. I don't even know why this thing is impacting me so much. My dad (narc) says in his sharp, fairly aggressive tone "nobody upsets you; you let yourself get upset." This has been his mantra for as long as I can remember; my sister and step mum were even commenting on it last week. He's intimidating; as a child and even as an adult, the message you hear is that feeling upset is bad and it's totally your fault that your upset. I used most of those denial patterns from the link. Just squashing those feelings. Some compliance patterns, too. I feel like my whole malleable child self was moulded around him. No wonder I always felt I couldn't find someone to match him... far out!
I also realised why **-* impacted me so much. I did mention it last week, but perhaps even then didn't quite realise how big it was. I let myself be vulnerable with him. I'd never been quite that vulnerable with anyone. I feel a little angry still, but I've switched the focus internally, on the lessons I can learn about being vulnerable in safe and productive ways.
For example I'm chronically late, everywhere. I then in order to save face have to constantly apologize or find some reason that I'm late, and then I feel both guilty that I’ve inconvenienced someone and ashamed that I’m always late and can’t manage my time. I usually have 4-5 appointments per day, so after having to apologize to 5 different people for my disorganization I’m feeling pretty bad about myself."
DeleteDo you identify as a sociopath, Duality? I found this interesting because I am chronically late too, but I process it very differently than you.
I don't care. I will apologize as a matter of course if it was a very inappropriate occasion for me be tardy, because I'm not a socially inept cad. I will lie if I think it is in my professional interest, without compunction or thinking twice about it. I realize this is theoretically "wrong" but so what? I'm the boss, anyway. I never feel guilty or ashamed of myself on account of it. In fact, I find the thought that some people walk around feeling guilty or ashamed for such a thing highly amusing. Why would anyone do that to themselves? It's a fault; everyone has them. So I don't think about it much at all.
When criticized, I will own it and "tsk tsk" myself for show, with no intention of doing anything about it. But when I'm actually on time a few times in a row, people praise me for my efforts and self-improvement. Haha. :D
What do I think?
ReplyDeleteTo me it sound like you (M.E.) are backpedaling. There have been quite a few letters from readers lately that are all "whoops, I thought I was a sociopath but turns out I'm not". Just an observation but I almost get the feeling you (M.E.) are trying to get away from your own (public) diagnosis. And hey, I get it. It's kinda limiting to put yourself in a box.
That's what I think. :)
P.S. What is an identity?
ReplyDelete:)
DeleteI'm not so keen on identity, myself. More on integration and potential.
'You are pure potential' ~ CS Hyatt
I've always wanted to be true to myself. To do what I believe is right and avoid what I believe is wrong. The thing is that these things were never clear, it was like looking through white fog searching the right path. I know societies social norms, and what they believe to be right or wrong. But I could never conform if I wasn't given a reason. I wanted to let myself lead me. Or else I would feel I was lying to myself.
ReplyDeleteSaying I love you to my sister for example, felt more like telling her I think you're stupid. I've always had problems with relationships, and I can't blame them. I'm a great actor but my eyes rarely follow. I always thought I was a great person, but at some point I had to admit that it is only great for me, and a nightmare for others. I also realized that the reason I couldn't see right or wrong was because I was looking at an empty sheet. Imagine how ridiculous the world looks like to me. It's like I'm an atheist and everyone around me is praying to God. Everyone is dancing around invisible things, forcing invisible things, hating you for not having the invisible things.
I haven't changed in that way, I've played a lot of roles, I've been a lot of people, but inside me I'm still an empty sheet of paper. Unless there is a reason, I cannot stand the idea of conforming, for nothing, for no apparent reason. It would be like manipulating myself. Every day I learn to control myself, to not be that destructive, but I'm doing it for myself. I have goals much bigger than fucking someones life over. I try to do what I think is usefull. And it has made me more likable, and pleasant towards others, but I did't do it cause I care about the norms, I did it for myself, and this way I'm true to myself, and there is less amount of destruction going on. This has been my way of maturing and at the same time being true to myself.
-VN
An interesting blog post, M.E.. I'm not so sure if my own healing process would be as simple, what I have is perhaps highly complex and not reversible: Brain regions altered by Temporal Lobe Epilepsy and significant environmental factors contributing to the condition. I can imagine much of what was layered on by environmental factors can be peeled off, but I cannot truly undo the damage done by the repeated seizures which have made me increasingly psychopathic, not by any means I would be aware of as of the moment.
ReplyDeleteESTP Sociopath
How do seizures make you "increasingly psychopathic"? Examples will be helpful too. Thanks.
DeleteTemporal Lobe Epilepsy effects the brain regions associated with psychopathy. With each seizure, I became more destructively impulsive, prone to irritation escalating to annihilating rage, callously unempathetic to the emotional suffering of others, and unable to experience genuine guilt or remorse for my own destructive behavior patterns.
DeleteI've posted many examples of my psychopathic behaviors, although I will post more if you desire that.
Recently I've been trying to better remember the night that man I was acquainted with approached me with the proposition to join a group of serial killers, a alleged group of assassins who would kill "unsavory characters"; pedophiles, child abusers, etc.. I was considering it, he said there was going to be money involved. If it's for cash, I thought why not? There were other factors in play though, like how his own destructive behavior was getting in the way of my ability to utilize those he was abusing as tools. I've told a bit of this part of my life story before; I sabotaged his efforts to have his destructive control over the people I was using by running a very effective smear campaign against him, wrapping every individual he associated with around my finger anf using them against him to ruin his image. His friends lost faith in him, he lost his dream job, his girlfriend left him. I took away everything that was precious to him, took away his power and madenit mine. I pretty much have his job now in his place, and he's left town entirely as there's nothing left for him here.
ESTP Sociopath
"Temporal Lobe Epilepsy effects the brain regions associated with psychopathy. With each seizure, I became more destructively impulsive, prone to irritation escalating to annihilating rage, callously unempathetic to the emotional suffering of others, and unable to experience genuine guilt or remorse for my own destructive behavior patterns."
DeleteHOW does TLW make you become "evil" for lack of a better term. It's one thing to not have the ability to empathize and it's quite another to actively seek to destroy and harm others. Lacking empathy, callousness, indifference, apathy etc should lead to an emotionally stunted person - not a cognizant, alert, intelligent devil who goes around knowingly sabotaging innocent lives.
It's one thing if a seizure made you indifferent to your sick roommate's suffering and it's quite another to wish or cause that suffering. Do elaborate.
I wouldn't be so keen on labeling me as absolute "evil". I do "good", such as my volunteering at the homeless youth shelter near where I live, as you ought to know if you're keeping up with my recent posts. All entirely for my own personal interests and benefit, but "good" all the same.
Delete"cognizant, alert, intelligent devil who goes around knowingly sabotaging innocent lives" sounds about right, but I, as any psychopath would, only indulge in destructive behavior towards others because it is instrumental to acquiring what we desire. It's a waste of time and energy to just go about ruining people's lives just for the heck of it. As I move up in the world, I really just have less desire to do so as their is a greater overhead of acquired power and resources to keep in mind. I'm sure I'll still be stepping on toes along the way still to get what I want but I'll have a professional image to uphold.
In the future, Jonaid, I recommend being a little more considerate of your often baseless accusations. Empty speculation over how ethical my lifestyle is will only get you so far; "good" and "evil" are not so clear cut, and sometimes they're interchangeable. If you haven't noticed already many would infact perceive you as "evil".
ESTP Sociopath
Do you plan on answering my question or not? Oh wait you're lying so obviously you cannot. "Good" acts are those that are INTENDED to lead to something good in it of itself. If you do something seemingly good for an ulterior motive, than it is only as good as your ulterior motive...in your case, not good at all.
DeleteYou're a ghastly fraud and since I know you, I have no reservations in saying so. It's not "baseless" nor is it "speculation." I've been putting up with your caricatures for months here but everything has a limit. I suggest you ignore me here and I'll do the same. There's nothing coming from any one of your IDs here that is worth addressing anyway. Deal?
Your question was:
DeleteHow do seizures make you "increasingly psychopathic"?
ESTP answered that question to you:
Temporal Lobe Epilepsy effects the brain regions associated with psychopathy.
It can't get any clearer than that.
He also gave you a very detailed example of his "psychopathic behavior", which you also asked for.
So yeah, he answered your question, you clueless dolt! What are you rambling on about?
Oh, it must be the extensive brain damage due to your combined antidepressant and drug usage. It completely and utterly destroyed your ability to reason with any reasonable modicum of common sense.
Oh well, sucks to be you!
I must have missed it then. Sincere readers can decide for themselves if a link between TLE and psychopathy was demonstrated here.
DeleteRiiiiight... Sure you did!
DeleteIf you say so, Jihadi. You have proven yourself exceptionally trustworthy and rational so far, therefore we shall believe you :-)
This is an excellent post - I agree with the therapist who wrote you and I agree with your analogy. I know this to be true 100% from personal experience. If I read the therapist's comment a year ago from today, I would have dismissed it as superstitious nonsense. As for your analogy, I would have read in its opposite: we are born to be who we are, everyone's different, and our upbringing & environment has minimal impact on our genetically determined outcome.
ReplyDeleteI agree & disagree with the idea that we have a "backup version stored somewhere." I guess I agree with where you're heading with this but I disagree with the literal meaning. The Quran calls itself a "reminder." God reminds mankind of the Truth that they, way deep down (for some) already know. Some recognize it immediately, others take a long time before they have their awakening. Yet anyone who seeks sincerely and asks God for direction WILL find it - and then their entire journey makes complete sense to them. When a "lost soul" is guided by God, it is first "purified." You don't replace your hard-drive with your backup - you "clean it up." When a seeker finds God and accepts the Truth, he / she is immediately forgiven all their past sins and wrongdoings - except any outstanding debts due to anyone else. I swear to you this alone changes people's personalities overnight. The worst psychopath can become a saint and this is beyond doubt true.
A brief list of personal changes over the past 6 months, starting right after I "found God."
1) I quit smoking cigarettes within 2 weeks
2) I stopped drinking within a month
3) I never "quit" marijuana but have completely lost any desire to smoke (a personal miracle...I loved smoking weed whenever I had time...mostly in good days, not bad ones)
4) Was taking anti-depressants to overcome my mood swings / depression. Quit immediately and never took them again.
5) I took stimulant medication for inattention for 6 years and roughly the same dosage all along. I take less than a quarter of the dose now and not everyday. I am near certain within a few months I will not need any whatsoever to be fully attentive at all times.
6) I am WAY MORE happier despite nothing else (money / business, friends, relationships, etc etc) changing.
7) I used to hate being alone but now I prefer it most of the time.
8) I'm much, much more empathetic - I actually love to give money to the homeless on city streets, I'm much more calm and not "in a rush," my priority is to help others find peace thru the Truth instead of just being wealthy & living comfortably...etc etc
There's a lot more I can say...
This is probably my most favorite chapter of the Quran - perhaps because I can relate so much to it. It reads to me as if it were written for me (of course I know it's not just for me...).
DeleteIn the name of God, The Merciful, The Compassionate.
"I swear by the morning hours,
And by the night when it is still,
Your Lord has not forsaken you, nor has He become displeased,
And surely what comes after is better for you than that which has gone before.
And soon will your Lord give you so that you shall be well pleased.
Did He not find you an orphan and give you shelter?
And He found you wandering, and He gave you guidance.
And He found you in need, and made you independent.
Therefore, treat not the orphan with harshness,
Nor repulse the petitioner (unheard);
And as for the favor of your Lord, do announce (it)."
Quran Chapter 93: The Morning Hours
VN I could relate with your post even though I'm not a sociopath. I agree to be true to yourself you must change for yourself and no one else. I believe we try to even manipulate ourselves into thinking we can somehow get around that truth. But I believe that is where all maturity begins and one must give it time to let the rewards of it flourish.
DeleteI also believe we are all born selfish or needy. That's not a bad thing. Its completely natural. I think sociopaths could benefit from accepting that about themselves. We all are selfish and needy but we all must learn ways to satisfy our needs other than manipulation. It is in our best interest even if we don't always get our way.
DeleteNot all people selfish and needy. Some people can care less what happens to anyone else provided they get all they want whereas others are not content until they see others content first.
DeleteYou're an attention seeking needy moron. You try and push pull your way into someones attention. You give a little in an attempt to get a lot and it's just so transparent. Your an idiot with you dumb books.
DeleteYou also have basically zero time with your quit addictions. You haven't quit anything. It takes MUCH longer than a few weeks or even a few months to quit an addiction whether its alcohol or cigarettes. It takes years. You haven't done anything but brag. And your accomplishments are nothing to brag about.
DeleteYou are doing what the the typical religious garbage person does. you are trying to make yourself feel better at the expense of others - a supreme evil. A true evil. So you idiots can rest at night with your fear of death heaven. Gays must be evil. You use your idiotic fairy tales to convince yourself you can quit... instead of suffering it out like a decent honest person. Cowards is what you are.
"Gays must be evil"
DeleteAs it happens I am gay - I have an exclusively homosexual orientation so you can tell me how I could be lying about this one.
As for everything I listed, it is true and only I can know it is true. I wasn't bragging - I can't brag that would be lying. I didn't do it of my own accord - the whole purpose of my mentioning this was to show how God can change lives altogether (not me).
It seems you misunderstood some of my points. I was never addicted to alcohol - I "quit" it meaning I stopped drinking altogether, even socially, for religious reasons. As for cigarettes - I was a relatively new smoker (only smoked for about 6 months before I started to quit). On occasion (every 2/3 weeks) I smoke one.
I can understand your incredulity. I used to detest most claims made by religious people too, thinking them to be either fabrications or delusions. Yet I was proven wrong. The only way to know for sure is to experience it for yourself...ask God to guide you and He will.
Peace.
I've never seen you unsheath those claws, Aspie.
DeleteRawr. ;)
You said you quit smoking cigarettes. I assume you wanted to convey to everyone that you are not addicted to them anymore.
DeleteHowever, in the blog post "Love the sinner, hate the sin?", you wrote, under another ID:
"I just smoked a cigarette...took it from the neighbor."
You really set a good example there, Joanie! Multiple ID's, hypocrisy, giving into your addictions... Must be God guiding you!
Look what I wrote above under my name:
Delete"On occasion (every 2/3 weeks) I smoke one."
Now I know for certain you either cannot read & comprehend or just don't bother and skip to your BS. This is good - it'll remind me to ignore you even when you manage to grab my attention. Thanks!
And if anyone else cares to know, "A" "ESTP" "Socioempath" are all the same person. I know this one. I suspect he might have other IDs but these I know for sure.
DeleteIt's okay just go make new ones but your tail will always stick out.
Hahahahahahaha! :D
DeleteOh yeah, you got me there, genius. I am all three of those ID's, and I got fifty more as a backup, and I made them just for you. Yup, makes perfect sense.
I got nothing better to do than to use multiple ID's. Hmmmm, which ID shall I use next?
And really, the fact that I didn't read one of your highly irrational comments does not change the points I made, at all, as the conclusions are still valid.
What is it exactly that you hoped to "prove" with your comment? That, once in a while, I sometimes don't bother reading your comments fully and still point out the truth about you?
That's awesome!
Okay, thanks for the compliment :-)
Wait a minute...
Delete" And if anyone else cares to know, "A" "ESTP" "Socioempath" are all the same person. I know this one. I suspect he might have other IDs but these I know for sure. "
Are you Smarty?
No seriously, that Character used to play games on here, one of which was Alias game...
DeleteIt really would make sense, now that I think about it.
Interesting. I might add that, if you're tech savvy enough, you can check the IP address behind my comments (this is infact doable; google it). It will be consistently the same, although it changed once in the past as I acquired a new smart phone some time ago.
DeleteESTP Sociopath
NM, are you referring to Joanie or me (and "A", and "ESTP")?
DeleteFor all that it's worth, I can assure you that I am not "Smarty", and that I have discovered this blog maybe two or so months ago.
If you can, per ESTP's suggestion, somehow check my IP's, they should stay consistent, as I didn't bother hiding them. They should reveal that I am situated in Bosnia.
Lol as if anyone will bother doing that.
DeleteSocioempath, I was referring to Jonaid. His inconsistent behavior is strange enough, but as he started to accuse others of using different alter egos it reminded me of Smartie. (Not sure if written with 'y' or 'ie'.)
DeletePS I know you're from Bosnia. And I prefer to believe you unless I see a reason not to. ;)
I feel bad for you.
DeleteJonaid, are you talking to me? If yes, would you explain why you feel bad for me? (I honestly don't see a reason.)
DeleteTo me, it seems that he subconsciously "envies" psychopaths, and fruitlessly tries to "copy" their behavior and "tactics", thinking he can beat them that way.
DeleteIt looks to me as if he's trying way too hard to keep up, to "prove" something.
His constant undermining of any and all psychopathic behavior, while also trying to make everyone behave like him, to bring everyone down to his level, also seems to support the "envy" theory - if I can't have it, then nobody else can!
But I could be wrong, and it could be something else entirely - such as someone just pretending to be stupid.
Anyway you put it, he's still a pretty juicy target that always comes back, no matter how much abuse he gets. And practice is always good for you :-)
It's interesting that whenever you're typing out your thoughts about what my intentions - conscious or subconscious - could be, you seem to never consider the possibility that they are exactly what I'm saying they are.
DeleteProjection is something everyone does to some extent. I too project - and "he" knows this if he is willing to be objective. I project innocence (until proven guilty) onto to most people because I don't have ill-intentions or ulterior motivations. You assume that I must have some ulterior motive, be it envy or deception, etc etc - the question is how much evidence will it take before (and IF) you ever take me at face value.
I just happen to have inherited some sociopathic traits which I'm gradually trying to rid myself of, and God-willing, I will succeed. I think "he" overemphasizes some of my sociopathic qualities (which shouldn't really be anything more than a few jokes I made) and refuses to see the obvious: my track record. "By their fruits ye shall know them." Isn't that what Jesus said? Translation: Actions speak louder than words.
It's a beautiful day again in this part of town. Let's play nice today. He liked this kind of weather.
And he too knows that despite his someone suspicious behavior from the onset, I never accused him or even treated him suspiciously. I projected innocence...until the evidence piled up and became too much to ignore. Unfortunately at the time I was facing the same dilemma with 2 people who were much closer to me than he was. All together it messed me up and prevented me from handling the situation more appropriately. Still, I think every person has to take responsibility. I know he knows the truth, he feels guilty, and he refuses to acknowledge it because it hurts him. I wish he'd stop hurting himself and stop causing more trouble to others. I swear to God I'm not lying about any of this...when will you trust your gut and me?
DeleteAnd don't take my criticism to heart...sometimes he really pisses me off with his caricatures. It is not meant to attack the guy in jail. I think he uses sex, apathy and denial as means of coping with deep emotional pain. He doesn't have to do all this - he can be genuinely great but he has to trust his gut, not his ego.
DeleteI'm projecting innocence...and I hope I'm right.
Oh my...
DeleteOkay, here we go!
-----------------
could be, you seem to never consider the possibility that they are exactly what I'm saying they are.
I have already considered that possibility. I always do with everyone I talk to.
Your actions so far have consistently dissuaded that possibility. I have already briefly explained why I think it is so in my previous comment.
I project innocence (until proven guilty) onto to most people because I don't have ill-intentions or ulterior motivations. You assume that I must have some ulterior motive, be it envy or deception, etc etc - the question is how much evidence will it take before (and IF) you ever take me at face value.
Once again, it was your actions that proved otherwise. Multiple times, you showed a pattern of behaving nice, then undermining (which is different from refuting) anyone who "takes you at face value" in the hope of proving yourself "right" and thus "winning".
"By their fruits ye shall know them." Isn't that what Jesus said? Translation: Actions speak louder than words.
Yes. And, once again, your actions do speak louder than any nice words you may write. Your "track record" on this blog is not helping your case.
...he feels guilty, and he refuses to acknowledge it because it hurts him.
No. If he is a sociopath/psychopath (take your pick), then by defition he is unable to "feel guilty". Once again, you demonstrate your lack of understanding about the psychopathic condition, and your refusal to learn anything about it; instead you make incorrect assumptions so it suits your agenda. But don't take my word for it, use Google and at least try to use your logical brain for it's intended purpose. It is you who refuses to "acknowledge the truth".
I swear to God I'm not lying about any of this...when will you trust your gut and me?
Just like I was not lying when I told you I was from Bosnia, and not your ex-lover, several times. Just like A said that she was not your ex-lover, several times.
You have baselessly accused me, A, Vegas, ESTP, UKan, of being the same person with multiple ID's. Yeah...
----------------
You can "project innocence" all you want. You can "swear to God" all you want. But your actions have, and very likely will, betray you ;-)
Where did you bury your heart? Seriously, you're still at it? Still? No one knows you here yet your only concern is your false image in multiple IDs and your ego which refuses to admit "defeat" when I'm not even trying to "beat" you at anything. Every time I put aside everything I know about you and try to address you as a human being you puff up and start your tricks again. Do you have ANY shame? ANY humility? ANY respect for anyone? You plan on going all the way, beat the worst psychopaths at their game?
DeleteYou will regret this one day if you don't find your heart and fix yourself. That day I won't give a damn but you will.
May God guide you.
I don't think I can feel guilt, if one defines it as a mechanism for transformative remorse. I'll get a fleeting, cerebral moment where I say to myself: "Perhaps I shouldn't have... (said, did, lied, messed with, etc.) but then it's gone- as easily dismissed as yesterday's news. I guess I don't *actually* care how my actions make others feel. The emotional feedback loop that "should" temper my actions is missing.
DeleteI actually remember the moment I stopped feeling guilt as a child. It happened at exactly the same time I stopped caring what anyone thought: my parents and teachers, as well as my peers.
I didn't have to go to school. I didn't have to tell the truth. I didn't have to come home when my parents told me to. I could shoplift if I wanted something I couldn't buy. I could steal drugs from my father, and money from my mother's wallet. I could get intoxicated, have all the sex I desired, stay out all night and vandalize shit, tell my teachers off, and pick fights. I could do whatever the hell I wanted. It was all very liberating- but it is also when I started getting into more serious trouble as a youth.
"I don't think I can feel guilt, if one defines it as a mechanism for transformative remorse. I'll get a fleeting, cerebral moment where I say to myself: "Perhaps I shouldn't have... (said, did, lied, messed with, etc.) but then it's gone- as easily dismissed as yesterday's news."
DeleteI can relate to the fleeting feeling of guilt. I could have easily been you had my circumstances been different. I don't care how you are right now - the only thing matters is if you're willing to *try* not being heartless. I know if "he" tries, he will make it and then he'll have me running to him for advice and help. I can help him but not against his will.
You get the remorse but it's not "transformative." It's not your fault you're missing something which - I think, God-willing - I can help you get. You're not evil and you're not a devil - I only refer to the apparent statements in those descriptions. I've seen his good side, fleeting and rare, but so beautiful and powerful when it did manifest - so much so that obviously I'm still somewhat obsessed with it.
DeleteDon't underestimate your true self by selling out and giving up.
Every time your heart recognizes the truth you back off and wait till its darkest, then post something cold and cruel. Be a soldier it's in your blood isn't it? Don't misuse your gift.
DeleteHuh? Wait a minute. Now you’re saying I'm NOT a satan worshipping demonspawn from the darkest pits of hell, because I said a few candid things about how I experience guilt? :-O
DeleteI guess that means you’re moving from the devaluing phase to the idealizing one as you use me to find closure with your cat killing muppet, LOLOL
Look. I know you think I'm your gay ex-lover, but the fact of the matter is that I've been coming here for years, on and off. I like to talk about this stuff sometimes, in addition to messing with tools like you. I'll never see a shrink, so this is as good a void to vomit into as any. :P
I hear how others talk about feeling bad about themselves in all these different ways, and I just can't relate. I have my own standards and convictions. But when I violate them, as we all do, I may even ask for forgiveness in my prayers, but I'll *never* sit around feeling guilty, or ashamed of myself. I have no shame over anything I've ever done.
That isn't something I need you to "help" me with, Joanie, you fool. It's an advantage.
Wow... What a surprise.
DeleteNow you're seeing tricks when there are none. I told you the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God - no tricks, just rational refuting.
Yet you refused to answer rationally because you got butthurt, using argumentum ad hominems instead. Niiiice :-)
All this constant suspicion is not exactly good for your health, Joanie. You should learn how to trust people ;-)
A, I think that guilt can also be interpreted and simplified as feeling bad that you somehow disappointed and/or caused trouble to other people, even if it did not cause any trouble to you.
DeleteHe doesn't respond to arguments rationally. He conveniently falls back to his pet delusions when he is confronted with inconvenient truths or rational arguments that refute his personal or global views and biases.
DeleteOnce again, it was your actions that proved otherwise. Multiple times, you showed a pattern of behaving nice, then undermining (which is different from refuting) anyone who "takes you at face value" in the hope of proving yourself "right" and thus "winning".
Right. And he does this by transforming ideological disputes into irrational personal crusades. He throws himself all in- all in the name of a god who is no God- without regard for evidence, be it anecdotal or scientific, in any domain. Because he knows better than psychiatrists, philosophers, theologians, neurobiologists, and scientists of every kind.
This is why I have stated that he is unbalanced, and ripe for radicalization.
@Socioempath: Yeah. I *do* sometimes feel bad for hurting people, it just doesn't last long- and it's not enough to deter me from behaviours which may gratify my base impulses any given moment.
DeleteA, you have said that you remember the exact moment when you stopped "feeling guilt". Perhaps that could mean that your amygdala (and whatever other parts of the brain responsible for processing emotions) had been developing, then stopped, which left it partially developed.
DeleteCompared to someone who is a "psychopath by birth", whose "emotional brain" never really had a chance to develop, it could make sense that, every once in a while, you could "feel neurotypically".
Since your "emotional brain" is partially developed, it can still sometimes send you weak signals, which are quite easily overridden by your logical brain.
It could mean that, perhaps, you can find a way to access that part of the brain, thus giving you a greater intuitive understanding of emotions, which could prove very useful in, for example, precisely knowing someone's emotional state without you having to exert much brainpower and exhausting you.
It's an interesting theory, at least.
Oh, and isn't a "lack of empathy" one of the hallmarks of narcissistic disorder? Google seem to think so!
Maybe that is why Joanie puts empathy on such a humongous pedestal :-)
I've shared this before, but not with you, so I will again, since it is pertinent to the conversation.
DeleteI was about 13 when I just stopped caring.
I was a difficult, hyperactive, defiant child, but I was also very intelligent. I was the smartest kid in the sole "gifted class" in a tough school, and I was arrogant about knowing everything. This was a social death sentence. Because my ostracization was so consistent and severe, I learned to shut everyone out, stop caring what anyone thought of me, and develop my identity apart from community and society. I stopped having any desire to fit in. I had no siblings, and no real friends throughout my childhood (just some younger neighbours I bullied, presumably to take out my own angst), so I learned not to want or need any. My sadness turned to contempt. School was a nightmare. I got unto fights almost everyday. Home was worse. I’ve always been a defiant child. My parents were very harsh with me, all the time, because I was such a handful. I did not benefit from gentleness anywhere. All the edges in my life were *hard*. I had no safe space in which to just be myself.
So, at about 12 or 13, I learned to play their game and beat them at it. I am a (very) good looking woman. (I’m not bragging, I just am. My mother was a model in her youth, and my father a typically handsome badboy.) When I started to develop, it became apparent that I was rather stunning, so I leveraged it to my advantage. I also became very tough. Punching, shoving, and slapping teenage girls for showing me even a hint of disrespect was easy compared to clawing, biting, hitting, kicking, and struggling with my raging father when he was violent with me, right? Lol. This is a man who gouged someone’s eye out with a broken beer bottle. I’m just lucky he didn’t kill me.
Ironically, I became very popular. But I stopped developing, emotionally. The development of my amygdala may also have been stunted by the copious amount of drugs I took as a teen. (I’ve always been a huge thrill seeker)
I have often said that psychopathy is a complex defense mechanism rooted in environmental and genetic factors. I had both guns pointed at my head. I also think it’s a spectrum, and a fallacy that psychopaths don’t feel emotion. We do: just not as persistently or acutely as “neurotypical” people.
So yeah, I *definitely* think there is something to what you’re saying, socioempath.
As for Joanie... Textbook narc. :)
Enjoy the weather it's beautiful again. Don't try so hard to convince me you're not lying here. I'm nice but I'm not a moron, thank God.
DeletePeace.
Convince you? I don't give a rat's ass if you think I'm lying. I wasn't even talking to you. Believe what you want, I don't care.
DeleteNot everything is about *you*, ya bloody narc.
"I have often said that psychopathy is a complex defense mechanism rooted in environmental and genetic factors. I had both guns pointed at my head. I also think it’s a spectrum, and a fallacy that psychopaths don’t feel emotion. We do: just not as persistently or acutely as “neurotypical” people."
DeleteI agree with this. You seem to think I don't understand anything you say or disagree with everything you say. I mostly only disagree with the deliberate caricatures and psychopathic BS you spew, not much else.
"I'll never see a shrink, so this is as good a void to vomit into as any. :P"
I agree you shouldn't - unless you have a real psychological problem which does warrant seeing a shrink for which I don't think is the case with you. I used to see a psychiatrist because I needed him to give me prescriptions. Upon his constant insistence I started seeing a therapist to "talk" but after a couple of visits I stopped - I don't need some "professional" talking to me and taking my money. I know genuine empathy when I see it.
No I don't think you need a shrink. You need to know real love exists and you are truly appreciated for who YOU are, not for anything else. Shrinks can't give you that, at least the vast majority of them can't. The idea of paying someone to listen to me moan about my problems is repulsive to me but who knows, maybe others benefit from it.
I know that real love exists. I was blessed enough to have found someone who appreciates me for who I am, yet who is not afraid to call me on my bullshit. He challenges me to be my personal best, and I am very grateful for our partnership.
DeleteThe idea of paying someone to listen to me moan about my problems is repulsive to me
Delete... And for once, we agree on something. Miracles will never cease. :P
A, that is a really interesting story. I think I should also elaborate more on my past, as it could shed even more light on the subject; enjoy!
Delete(Part 1)
I too was a highly intelligent, "gifted" child (I am also left-handed and good-looking, so there you go).
In elementary school, I was ostracized for being "different" and "weird", so I mostly kept to myself. It didn't help that my parents, especially my mother, were overbearing and always expected me to be the best at everything; I would get harshly punished for the lightest of failures, and my successes didn't seem to bring any results or rewards, and they also considered having fun a waste of time while I always sought excitement - I also always resented being told what to do. Now, that did not turn me sociopathic, merely introverted and socially awkward. Elementary school was definitely hell for me.
Things started to look up when I went to high school, as I finally found a group of friends who "accepted" me and would not judge me (at least I thought so at the time, in the meantime we have either "grown apart" or I have cut off contact with them due to their "loser crab bucket mentality").
It was also the period when I started drinking, a lot, and smoking weed. What I found weird was that I always seemed to remember everything, even if I was drunk to the point of throwing up, while others would speak of not remembering much, which I found really strange.
At home, things weren't really sunshine and flowers. I couldn't have "my own space" due to my parents, and especially my mother, always interfering with my habits while I tried to relax. This was offset by getting drunk and high with friends. As you can imagine, this affected my behaviour and my grades, making me more aggressive towards my parents, especially in college. However, it still didn't turn me sociopathic, and I remember feeling guilt, panic, regret, shame, and what-have-you, and have been manipulated quite a few times through those feelings, all to my detriment. Who knows, maybe if I was ostracized in high school, I would have become sociopathic earlier?
When I was 19 or so, I have tried amphetamine (not meth, mind you, just your standard amphetamine sulphate).
Holy shit! Nothing I have ever tried, before or since, could even compare this badboy!
Suddenly, I could instantly and accurately analyze people, have extreme focus and no doubts, never get tongue-tied, predict anything with great accuracy, swiftly acquire any skill or figure out anything... Sounds familiar?
(Part 2)
DeleteIt has also, somewhat paradoxically, made me quit drinking and smoking weed, and generally to start taking care of myself, and I could also do what was required of me and do what I wanted, all without breaking a sweat. And I never seemed to develop a tolerance or get any "cravings" or "withdrawals", as I had no problems stopping if that was required. It was the only drug that made me feel "more in control", as I felt that everything I did on it was the result of my abilities, not the drug itself - "more sober than sober". But, of course, it also made me more impulsive and got me into quite a lot of trouble, with my sudden success and constant "adventures" made my folks (probably instigated by my mother) at home very suspicious and even more overbearing, with my mother trying various underhanded tricks to try to limit my "freedom", which drove me further into amphetamine usage just to "keep up" and keep doing it.
But amphetamine still didn't turn me "psychopathic", as a few days after ceasing usage I would get "neurotypical" again. And while amphetamine's effect weren't exactly like psychopathy, they were very, very similar.
What I have found interesting at the time, was that it seemed to have a longer and stronger effect on me than on other people, even if they were inexperienced with it, no matter how much or how long I took it, even though by all logic I should have developed quite a tolerance to it - I have suspected that the reason why it was so much more effective for me than for others was because of something genetic.
There is a study which states that amphetamine releases nearly four times more dopamine in psychopathic individuals than in those who are "normal", which would account for my "genetic legacy", and why I found amphetamine much more effective that other people did.
Over time, I found it "impractical" to rely on it to succeed (the drug itself wasn't the problem, it was the process of constantly getting it, wasting money that could be used elsewhere and hiding it's usage that proved impractical), so I gradually went on the path of "controlling my emotion"; at the end of the "process", I chose to "unacknowledge", not pay them any attention, rather than "ignore" them; psychopathy itself wasn't my goal, as all that I needed was for my decision to be unaffected by them - it didn't really matter to me how strongly I would feel them, as long as they didn't interfere with my goals. Very soon (perhaps maybe a week or even less?) after I started to "unacknowledge" them, however, it didn't require any effort on my part, as I was now free to do whatever I want, completely sober and without practicing the "unacknowledgement" at all. By comparison, the internet says that somebody stoic would always have to practice the skill and would need to put in the effort to "stay on top" of his emotions.
I seem to have gotten more than I bargained for. Not that I complain, mind you - quite the opposite.
Now, to be fair, there seems to be an "official concensus" that, if you didn't turn psychopathic soon after 18 (or 19?) that it is very unlikely that you will.
So, I have tested myself extensively for a very extended period of time, while staying completely sober (I have not used anything except cigarettes and caffeine, and still don't nor do I feel the need); if I was merely just good at suppressing my emotions, it would show when I tried to push myself to the limit and past my comfort zone. And the results seem to confirm the psychopathic self-diagnosis, even after a period of inactivity or doing something completely unfamiliar.
(Part 3)
DeleteFor example, when I would talk to a complete stranger, I wouldn't feel nor sense any traces of anxiety or fear.
If I accidentally did something that is supposed to be "embarassing" in front of individuals who knew me, there would be no shame, regret, confusion, or whatever other "negative" emotion on my part, as I wouldn't get bothered at all, and instinctively find a way to stay on top and "save face", as if nothing had happened.
While driving a car, if I see an "opening", no matter how tight or close (or dangerous) it seems, I'd take it without any seconds thoughts or doubts, as I know I can make it.
And so on.
However, while driving a car past it's (and mine) limits, I have noticed that, instead of worrying about crashing or losing control, I instead become very calm and intensely focused, with me being very interested in seeing how far I can take it. What?? I have never had this happen to me before, in the four years of driving fast. Additionally, if I was "racing" someone before, I would worry if he would catch up, if I would make a mistake, lose control and crash; now, it is just "let's see if you can keep up, sucker" and I win (of course).
Now, the "paradoxical calmness" isn't limited to just driving the car, although it is most pronounced then.
It seems that, if I cross a certain "stress threshold", I get very calm, with the accompanying focus, everything unimportant gets tuned out, and the only thing that matters is getting the job done.
Do I miss the "old me"? Oh, hell no! I am having the time of my life! And my life certainly got much, much better!
For me, the feeling of a rush, succeeding and accomplishments far surpass any nice feelings you might get from "socializing and connecting" with someone. And besides, friends are nearly always fleeting (although you can find a few "worthy" individuals, they are extremely rare), while the accomplishments and experiences stay with you. I can't really explain it, but somehow this state feels much more "natural" to me.
If my experiences are anything to go by, simply granting somebody psychopathic (and intelligent?) "neurotypical emotions", especially if they are strong, is not really the right way to go. What you'd get is a miserable person who has a desire to go his own way, to experience a lot, and so on, but who, due to his overly analytical nature, will get easily depressed and give up due to "negative emotions" caused by his overanalysis of the world around him. Just imagine trying to do something really exciting (and dangerous) to satisfy your impulse or to get ahead, then getting stopped by fear, regret, worry, panic, et cetera.
However, due to my "late blooming", compared to the usual psychopathic "awakenings", it would make sense that my emotional parts of the brain are more developed, which would explain why I can easily and intuitively detect any emotion, be it positive or negative, and why putting on "masks" doesn't seem to exhaust me as much as it should, so there is that.
P. S.
Joanie, all the amphetamine in the world isn't gonna make you any smarter or less delusional ;-)
I agree with the P.S.
DeleteIncidentally, since my own awakening, thank God I don't need stimulants anymore.
When will you free yourself and stop being a liar & manipulator? Come on already!
Compulsive lying and deception makes my blood boil with anyone (including my immediate family) except one asshole "friend" of mine.
DeleteReally?? It does???
DeleteGood for you, Joanie! You must really, really hate yourself then :-)
M.E.-
ReplyDeleteThat was PERFECTION!!!
~Vegas
I just had one of my favorite meals.:)
ReplyDeleteSourdough bread with butter, Caesar salad, seafood pasta, Baileys Irish Cream mousse, accompanied by Crown Royal and Diet Cokes.:)
What more could a girl ask for???
~Vegas
...Whiskey and chocolate, are some of God's greatest gifts, in my opinion.:)
DeleteOne day, I will have to get my hands on some of that "Bosnian Vodka", Socioempath was telling me about.:)
~Vegas
Dick
Deleteabc-
DeleteYou read my mind.:)
~Vegas
If the socio can only find his "neutral inner gear" he could be very valuable to society &/or those close to him? That is not asking for the moon? Most likely the "core" of psychopathy is just that: a passive neutral attitude. Evil psychopaths probably have strayed from that path, fuelled by anger from being abused/beaten as kids or put in hopeless environments they saw no escape from or by being daft "hand-puppets" controlled by destructive psychological forces they do not understand or control. This transformed them.
ReplyDeleteThe rage in the zodiac Scorpio is very similar to the psychopaths issues: a scorpian human being without understanding of these impulses may "stray". This "trip" may take him far away from the human race. But unlike the socio I don´t think Scorpio is neutral; some of these specimens perhaps really are born bad, evil (if a wolf or croc can be labeled evil, that is). These folks need to discipline themselves "back". To realize what they are and "invent" a human moral. Likely a much more long & winding road than the socio has to deal with..
DeleteAnon @ 3:48-
DeleteMy mother is a Scorpio, and I think I am married to a sociopath...
It's a miracle, that I am still alive!!!
~Vegas
...this is why Whiskey and Chocolate, are almost a necessity.:)
Delete~Vegas
I am a Scorpio ascendant with Scorpio featured all over my astrological chart, and I'm fine, thx. :P
DeleteA-
DeleteThere are no two people on the planet I love more, than my mother and husband, so I must be a "Scorpio and Sociopath Lover"!!!
~Vegas
A-
DeleteThey can wear me out, though!!!
In which case, recovery is nicer with some Whiskey and chocolate.:)
HA!!! LOL!!!
~Vegas
The rage in the zodiac Scorpio is very similar to the psychopaths issues: a scorpian human being without understanding of these impulses may "stray".
DeleteAny sign of the zodiac may stray. Inscribed on the lintel of the Delphic oracle: All Things in Moderation. Excess of any kind is considered destructive. Even excessive permissiveness.
This "trip" may take him far away from the human race.
True. See Above. Any sign trait taken to extreme becomes a detriment.
But unlike the socio I don´t think Scorpio is neutral; some of these specimens perhaps really are born bad, evil (if a wolf or croc can be labeled evil, that is).
BS. You're drunk on some kind of astro-koolaid. Scorpios delve into the fabric of taboo subjects: power, sexism, nuclear generation and waste, rape, lies and manipulation, charming hypnotism for the sake of control and exploitation. Also: Scorpio cures disease, exposing its core source. Scorpions are surgical detectives of reality, going where angels fear to tread.
These folks need to discipline themselves "back". To realize what they are and "invent" a human moral.
Don't WE all need, should and could. It's small, mad, mad world. If we can't live together, we die.
"a much more long & winding road than the socio has to deal with.."
A long and winding road it is. A writer friend once said, Meet you downstream.
Mr. Hyde
Salutations Mr Hyde.
DeleteMr. Hyde!!!
DeleteYou have been missed.:)
~Vegas
Mr. Hyde-
Delete"Astro-Koolaid" cracked me up!!!
I say "Don't Drink The Koolaid", all the time.:)
HA!!! LOL!!!
~Vegas
Mr. Hyde-
DeleteI love and understand Scorpios.:)
You are far more capable of explaining them, than I am.:)
P.S. How is BB???
~Vegas
Nice to be missed. Thanks guys and gals. Whichever/whatever you are, wherever you fall on the spectrum. I do respect y'all's penchant for expressing your life experience. Expressing what you see, feel or not, your sensorial perception of being alive is seen and appreciated very much.
DeleteWhich is not to say, I wholeheartedly agree with every sentiment posted on this blog.
Hello North: Glad to see you are still posting provocative stuff. I think they used to call folks like you benevolent shit-disturbers. You are so great at stirring the ever-evolving broth. :)
Vegas: I know you love and understand Scorpios. That's clear from your posts. ;)
BB is sort of fine. He's been a shit disturber, but I love him nonetheless. Beautiful beast that he is, I cannot refuse his experience nor refute his transgressions. He's locked up in a house, with no yard, no access to the freedom he needs and deserves.
Mr. Hyde
Mr. Hyde-
DeleteYes, North is "showing some spice", and I like it.:)
I do love and understand Scorpios.:)
I'm glad BB is ok-I know you love him.:) At least he gets to be with you, and is safe.:)
~Vegas
NM-
ReplyDeleteIf you are out there-
Does Austria have any special alcoholic drinks I should try, in the event I get to visit there someday???
~Vegas
Well, there are a lot of different wines, but I mostly drink coke & vodka or some apple cider.
DeleteWe've got quite some famous beers, just visit one of the many beer pubs here in Vienna. ;)
Hey NM-
DeleteOur riverboat was on the Danube, and I just noticed-that river extends through Austria, and all the way to The Black Sea!!!
SO COOL!!!
I hope I make it there someday!!! If I do, I will know to try all the wines, vodka, apple cider, and beer that I can.:)
Thanks for the tips.:)
Vienna LOOKS AWESOME!!!
~Vegas
NM-
DeletePS-You sound good.:)
~Vegas
That's pretty cool. The Danube is a huge river, it flows through a lot of countries. And Vienna IS awesome! :D
DeletePS Yeah, I guess I feel better somehow. Been through some stuff with my significant other. He doesn't love me. Actually, he feels nothing for me. Guess it was all projection on my side. Whatever. Gotta move on, right?
Hey NM-
DeleteIt was VERY COOL!!! The Danube IS HUGE, and I knew it continued on, but I didn't really think about it. When I do-it makes sense, that it goes on to The Black Sea.:)
I bet Vienna IS AWESOME!!! YOU ARE SO LUCKY, YOU GET TO LIVE THERE!!! I WILL HAVE TO EXPERIENCE IT!!!
PS-I am sorry you and your SO went through more stuff, but I am glad you are feeling better.:) I use this quote, when I am in similar situations:
If You Love Something, Set It Free;
If It Comes Back, It's Yours.
If It Doesn't, It Never Was. -Richard Bach
~Vegas
Thank you for the quote, Vegas. I like it :)
DeleteHey NM-
DeleteYou are more than welcome, for the quote-I'm glad you like it.:)
PS-I knew you were asking Jonaid, if he was that "Smarty" character, but I didn't want to answer for you.:)
PSS-I asked my husband if my "startling attempts" were successful.:) He "says" they were, but I don't believe him-it has never appeared that way. That's the hard part, NM-only he really knows...
~Vegas
NM-
DeleteI'll try to find a "good opportunity", to try and "startle" him again, and I'll let you know what happens.:)
What is Jonaid's "deal"???
If anyone can figure it out, NM-it is you.:)
~Vegas
Vegas,
DeleteAbout feeling startled versus looking startled - sometimes, I got the impression people didn't always notice when they startled me, and sometimes I wasn't startled yet people thought I was.
So when your husband says he was startled, maybe he was, but didn't appear so because his reaction is by default less intense than that of a neurotypical person? I'm eager to hear about the reaction tho.
About Jonaid, I think everyone needs a zealot in their life. He's just perfect for the job. I honestly like him - tho I guess that's mostly because I'm used to and like being around lunatics. They're so much more interesting than 'normal' people. And they tend to be more understanding of their fellow lunatics than most neurotypicals are.
I used to know quite some people like Jonaid, his reciting of the Qur'an seems to be a defence mechanism: he does it when he feels deeply misunderstood and/or senses bad intentions held against him.
Consider me to be a lunatic but read what I quote objectively - it's veracity is not contingent on my state of mind.
DeleteJonaid, I tend to read everything from everyone objectively, regardless of whether I consider the writer to be a lunatic or not.
DeleteThe important circumstance you should note is, that my definition of 'lunatic' is not of a condescending nature. Actually, it is almost the opposite.
Another thing you might want to acknoledge, is that I wrote:
"And they tend to be more understanding of their fellow lunatics than most neurotypicals are."
You're smart enough to understand this, so I figured you skipped that sentence. Or probably just that word.
I ask you to look past your bias and do as you asked me to do: Read my words objectively. Okay? :)
I'm curious what is the logic behind my quoting the Quran when I'm feeling "deeply misunderstood" or sense "bad intentions" against me? Is this an Islamic blog or something that I use the Quran as my defense? Making such nonsensical and frankly impossible assumptions about a specific person's intentions is anything but "objective."
DeleteAs for those who like to suck up to their dark buddies at night:
In the name of God, The Merciful, The Compassionate.
"The likeness of those who choose other patrons than God is as the likeness of the spider when she takes unto herself a house, and verily the frailest of all houses is the spider's house, if they but knew.
Surely God knows what thing they invoke instead of Him. He is the Mighty, the Wise.
As for these examples, We coin them for mankind, but none will grasp their meaning save the wise."
Quran 29: 41-43
Jonaid, you're getting silly now.
DeleteBesides, if you truly were curious, you wouldn't answer your own question in such a way.
However, your comment as a whole supports my assumptions, therefore rendering them useful to describe your behavior. You could see that too, if you would lay your religious shield aside for a second.
And frankly, I'm disappointed you didn't make the effort to read and understand what I tried to tell you.
DeleteAnd you've been disingenuous...distorting the meaning of words conveniently. We can't communicate if you decide to change the meaning of words. Nonetheless, if you define X as Y, then say so immediately...not after someone "misinterprets" your X to be X. Of course there's no such thing as an honest correction here (i.e. "I'm sorry I should have said....").
DeleteYou guys never quit with your tricks do you?
It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad. Maybe you get it thi way: Watch.
DeleteIf you still don't get it after this very obvious compare; Leave the words alone. They aren't responsible for your inability to comprehend 'em so stop raping the poor words.
In case you got it: Congrats, now you know why folks like me get called 'mirrors'.
NM-
DeleteI look at my name and think-that's so cool.:)
When you post, I think..."he's so cool, he's so cool, he's so cool"...
Just like in the movie "True Romance".:) I recommend it, if you've never seen it-it's a Quentin Tarantino "gem".:)
I think you're right-I think my husband may get startled, but his reaction by default is less intense, than a neurotypical's would be. I've always wanted to see him have a "neurotypical reaction"-I think that would be funny, but I don't know, that I'll be able to do it. I'll have to try to think of something REALLY GOOD, and find the RIGHT OPPORTUNITY.:)
I agree-everyone needs to know a good "zealot".:) I never realized it, but I am also used to, and like being around "lunatics".:) They are definitely more interesting and more understanding, than most neurotypicals.:)
I agree that Jonaid uses religion as a defense mechanism.
Thank you for telling him to leave the words alone, and that they aren't responsible, for his lack of comprehension.:)
"Stop raping the poor words"...that's awesome.:)
~Vegas
Vegas, try getting him to play Syobon Action!
DeleteI can almost certainly guarantee you a reaction ;-)
Vegas, thank you for thinking I'm cool. That actually makes me feel cool *puts on sunglasses despite being inside a room*
DeleteI liked Pulp Fiction, the wikipedia summary of this film sounds interesting - especially after reading the originally intended version had a downer ending. I'll see if I can find the film somewhere online.
I remember a situation in which I had a surprisingly normal startle response: I was outside with my dog, standing directly beside a street. Cigarette in my mouth, full concentration on lighting it, which was close to impossible du to wind, when suddenly an ambulance, which I hadn't seen coming, turned on the sirens the same moment they drove beside me. I dropped the lighter and jumped at least half a meter to the side before noticing what was going on. Fucking idiots. I know they did it on purpose.
Anyways, haven't had a stronger startle response in all my life. LoL
I'm curious whether Jonaid understands what I was talking about, (even a blind man, metaphorical speaking, should be able to) and if the Rick & Morty snippet helped. It's my most favorite show at the moment. Gotta love that psychopathic scientist.
I guess Jonaid is either asleep or plays the "oh no you beat me in my own game now I won't talk to you" game.
He was asleep...you don't have to add needless assumptions after that. I think people have to be using the same language to communicate effectively. They can also communicate effectively if they are in a similar state of mind. We seem to be apart on both counts. You can go on making you assumptions and I'll keep on doing what I'm doing. Like I said, no matter what my motivation or agenda, the veracity of the Speech of God is not contingent on it. Read and try to reason and use your insight:
DeleteIn the name of God, The Merciful, The Compassionate.
"And when the trumpet is blown with a single blast,
And the earth with the mountains shall be lifted up and crushed with one crash,
On that day shall the great event come to pass,
And the heaven will split asunder, for that day it will be frail.
And the angels will be on the sides thereof, and eight will uphold the Throne of thy Lord that day, above them.
On that day ye will be exposed; not a secret of you will be hidden."
Quran 69: 13-18
Hey NM-
DeleteYou are cool.:)
*puts on sunglasses despite being inside a room*
I do the same thing-I also wear sunglasses outside, even when it's dark.:)
I LOVE PULP FICTION, TOO!!!
I think you'll like "True Romance".:) It's not at all like, the title would suggest.:) I haven't seen the "alternate ending", though-I might have to check that out.:)
Thank you for telling me the story, of when you had a "normal startle response".:) What did your dog do, when you dropped your lighter and jumped like that???
I'm "with you" on the "concentrating on lighting your cigarette in the wind"-been there done that, plenty of times.:)
It's hard to tell, what Jonaid understands. He might have gone to sleep, but he tends to do the "oh no you beat me in my own game now I won't talk to you" thing.:)
I just noticed that Jonaid also writes in the 3rd person...
~Vegas
Socioempath-
DeleteThank you for the "Syobon Action" recommendation.:)
I might try that, although he plays "war games", and there never seems to be any sort of reaction...
I think I can buy one of those "emergency sirens". Maybe I'll get one, hide it, and make it go off just as he's walking by unknowingly...
That would be awesome, if he totally jumped.:)
HA!!! LOL!!!
~Vegas
NM-
DeletePS-I also wondered if Jonaid was talking to you, and why he would feel sorry for you...
YOUR A "LUCKY DUCK" WHO GETS TO LIVE IN VIENNA!!!
~Vegas
Altough I am not completely sure that it will "startle" him, Syobon Action should get you a funny reaction...
DeleteIt's a game which, at first, looks harmless enough. Then it unexpectedly and deceitfully kills you the first chance it gets ;-)
Jonaid,
Delete" I think people have to be using the same language to communicate effectively. They can also communicate effectively if they are in a similar state of mind. We seem to be apart on both counts. "
I totally agree with you on that. If taken on face value.
And yes, I'll continue to make assumptions. That's my nature.
Vegas, my dog just sat there looking at me as if I was total nuts. Ha, she saw the ambulance coming, so I guess she didn't understand why I would be startled in the first place.
It's indeed hard to tell what he understands, since he seems to speak a different language from us, and his state of mind is unarguably alien to us. Still interesting to theorize.
I wondered too why he would feel sorry for me, but he didn't address that. I could now spit out several assumptions my brain came up with while typing this, but that surely would upset him. xD
That being said, I need to fetch some sleep now.
Socioempath-
DeleteI can see why you like that game, and I bet my husband would, too.:)
We'll see what I can do, and when.:)
HA!!! LOL!!!
Thanks for the tip!!!
~Vegas
NM-
DeleteI hope you got a lot of good sleep.:)
If you watch "True Romance"-let me know, what you think!!!
There are a lot of good scenes in that movie, but my favorite, is where Patricia Arquette "kicks some ass"!!!
I won't say anymore, so I won't ruin it for you, in case you watch it.:)
I especially dig that scene, though, because I get tired of movies depicting women as weak.:(
~Vegas
I agree with the first part but when you got to the backup stuff I wasn't sure WTF you were saying. Then we have this "multiverse" thing. And a "That identity is never rotted in any sort of evil, never corrupted by this society and its well-meaning and malicious attempts to mold people". What?? The next sentence or two is has double wtf factor.
ReplyDeleteSeems like you are selecting folks for a response.
Anyway, I offer this guitar solo
Aspie-
DeleteThank you for the guitar solo-I enjoyed it.:)
~Vegas
"Healing process".
ReplyDeleteAnd when you find the backup of yourself you notice that it's on that 9-track backup tape that went out in the 80's and you can't find a machine to restore from.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdqoNKCCt7A
Delete;)
Impossible.
DeleteI do think that everybody has an identity, a core identity that came with us from birth and is written into our genes and would have expressed itself much the same no matter where in the multiverse "we" currently are. That identity is never rotted in any sort of evil, never corrupted by this society and its well-meaning and malicious attempts to mold people. Everyone is like a computer that has a backup version stored somewhere, not corrupted viruses or user error or anything else. And if you can just get back to that backup version and restore the harddrive to that, no more virus, no more sociopathy, no more of any type of personality disorder.
ReplyDeleteI like how you’ve expressed this, M.E. Such is the nature of generational curses: sin patterns that either get reinforced or rooted out within families over successive generations. And psychopathy is a whopper of a fucking inheritance, isn't it? :P
But science is beginning to show us how we can alter our genome on an epigenetic level through the manipulation of our actions and habits, which can influence what characteristics get expressed, and even which ones get passed down to our offspring. This ties in with how neural pathways associated with certain behaviours become more established as they are practiced. It turns out our genome, just like our brain, is significantly more adaptable and benefits from much greater plasticity than we previously assumed.
We also know that certain “negative” traits are associated with successful outcomes. I just watched a documentary earlier today that revealed how a recent study involving identical twins demonstrated how personality traits are much more the product of nature than nurture. In it, they further explored how certain “negative traits” are associated with successful outcomes. The example given was of fearless dominance, a trait associated with psychopathy, but which many Presidents of the United States manifested, and how it conferred to them boldness, courage and the capacity to lead competently through crises.
We cannot get back to Eden until everything is made new again. In the meantime, finding the line that separates the “higher self” (the idealized, uncorrupted hard drive) from the “sinful nature” can be tricky.
The problem for sociopaths is that our sins are not socially acceptable because they are destructive to others, as opposed to destructive to self. But is it really more sinful to be a warrior than a worrier? Perhaps- but only insofar as it predisposes us to getting (figurative or literal) blood on our hands. Self-destructive sins also negatively impact others, albeit indirectly, but nobody pays much attention to that, because they are too busy empathizing with and relating to the self-destructive person as a victim.
Sociopaths don’t victimize themselves unless it is to manipulate someone. We cast that off as repugnant and weak. Yet we do victimize others. Often it is in a knee-jerk, reactive, impulsive sort of way. And sometimes the neural pathways that underscore this tendency are so well-established that it is virtually automatic.
But unlike the crap our resident delusional fundie so frequently defecates here, it isn’t merely a question of sociopaths = demonspawn. That sort of superstitious nonsense seriously undermines any rational approach to faith, and dichotomizes people into monsters and men on the basis of empathy, which becomes the foundation for a veritable witch-hunt.
And I ask you: What is so laudably empathetic about a Medieval pitchfork, Jihadi? XD
"The example given was of fearless dominance, a trait associated with psychopathy, but which many Presidents of the United States manifested, and how it conferred to them boldness, courage and the capacity to lead competently through crises."
DeleteFearless dominance is not a psychopathic trait. Psychopaths are cowards who only put on the "mask" of being fearless and dominant. If it works, good. If their bluff is called, they squirm, tremble, grovel, and if they're lucky, gain sympathy and are let go. As soon as they are beyond reach, they turn the story around and say "I overpowered them." You should know - a little coward who sells himself and his own family's fate. You know you're lying here with your countless IDs and all for the sake of your genitals. You're nothing but proof that shamelessness is without limits and solipsism is real.
It's no wonder you have trouble sleeping. You are truly a piece of work - not a good one.
Again, you clearly have no idea what you are fucking talking about, Joanie.
DeleteNumerous scholarly articles attest to this trait being endemic to psychopathy
That study might be difficult for someone with your cognitive limitations to understand. Here is a synopsis.
You know...
DeleteI found it rather comical that I also knew a guy - a bonafide Christian Joanie - who took (and still probably secretly takes) antidepressants. His story is closely correlative to Joanie's (a reformed junkie who did a lot of "bad stuff", suddenly became religious, claims he has no vices and now knows the "ultimate" way of life), and even his behavior is eerily similar.
Yeah, he "found God" and will endlessly babble to you for hours and hours about God and how it is the only thing that will "save" you.
Should you disagree with him and/or demonstrate even a modicum of "heresy" he would get offended and would not stop trying to "educate and reform" you. Fun times!
Oh, and he also has that "zombie face" similar to the one in Joanie photo.
"But science is beginning to show us how we can alter our genome on an epigenetic level through the manipulation of our actions and habits, which can influence what characteristics get expressed, and even which ones get passed down to our offspring. This ties in with how neural pathways associated with certain behaviours become more established as they are practiced. It turns out our genome, just like our brain, is significantly more adaptable and benefits from much greater plasticity than we previously assumed."
DeleteI read an article a month or 2 ago that was about overcoming personality traits by practicing over and over. Like sheer repetition. I'll try to find the link for it.
Fearless dominance is not a psychopathic trait. Psychopaths are cowards who only put on the "mask" of being fearless and dominant. If it works, good. If their bluff is called, they squirm, tremble, grovel, and if they're lucky, gain sympathy and are let go. As soon as they are beyond reach, they turn the story around and say "I overpowered them." You should know - a little coward who sells himself and his own family's fate. You know you're lying here with your countless IDs and all for the sake of your genitals. You're nothing but proof that shamelessness is without limits and solipsism is real.
DeleteIt's no wonder you have trouble sleeping. You are truly a piece of work - not a good one.
idiot. its a defining trait.
in reality its fear stopping you from being like us. you worry about what others might think or do. when you dont give a toss the world is your oyster. people will condone your depravity just based on how you rationalize it to them confidently as if there is nothing wrong at all. ive seen it over and over again. i can call stinking shite a rose knowing its shite, and you worthless idiots will eat it up like a christmas goose. youd rather believe me than believe someone would consciously do the things i do with no motive whatsoever but to get a laugh at you retarded people's expense.
UKAN...same character as "A" "ESTP" "Socioempath"
Delete"in reality its fear stopping you from being like us. you worry about what others might think or do."
Why would I worry about what others think if I will be deceiving them? The idea is they WON'T find out who I am. You're on a roll with your contradictions. The only fear I had in becoming psychopathic was that I knew in the end I'd become a retard like the psychos I know - so deluded that I'm behaving in utterly self-destructive ways yet telling myself the opposite. It's like being raped but thinking you're the one who's raping. If that's what turns you on good for you. I prefer to remain sane.
'UKAN...same character as "A" "ESTP" "Socioempath"
Delete'
No, no, and no.
I've spoken to a psychologist who runs a DSPD unit at a maximum security prison. I asked if psychopaths could be rehabilitated. The answer was a categorical "Yes" - and this person works with some of the worst offenders in the country, people on whom the system would give up.
ReplyDeleteMy father was an extremely violent psychopath who was incarcerated for his actions. He was rehabilitated, but his improvement was not on account of the time he spent in prison. :P
Delete"I've spoken to a psychologist who runs a DSPD unit at a maximum security prison."
DeleteBy default the location means they would predominantly use the PCL-R to assess the prisoners. Given that current research by the non-Hare camp [eg. of Skeem, Lilienfeld, Patrick, Cooke, Edens, Poythress et al] is clarifying more and more that Hare's checklist has been conflating two etiologies [A - Externalising factor and, B - core psychopathic affective-interpersonal personality traits] into his one 'psychopath' construct as in: 'he's a criminal with low empathy and no remorse so he's a psychopath, and he's a psychopath so he's a criminal with low empathy and no remorse' - prison psychologists living and breathing 'Hare-pedantics' are confusing outcomes for A with prognosis for B:
"I asked if psychopaths could be rehabilitated."
If by 'rehabilitated' the psychologist observed that some impulsive and violent criminals [with high PCL-R total scores due to high Factor 2 scores] can mature out of it or be therapeutically trained out of that, with adequate and *kind* therapy and an adequate support structure post-prison - that would be true.
If they meant that the genetic, additive factor resulting in the core personality traits of psychopathy would be 'rehabilitated out' of one's DNA: that's neurobiological nonsense.
As A said about her dad:
"He was rehabilitated, but his improvement was not on account of the time he spent in prison."
Probably: *in spite of* "the time he went to prison", and due to, his maturing years. 8-/
As for:
"no more virus, no more sociopathy, no more of any type of personality disorder."
Frankly, how about ceasing this psycho-crap self-flagellation. It is not a personality disorder to be fearless, charming, unorthodox, goal-driven, adventurous, with low anxiety and high stress-tolerance.
Anyone with such traits who thinks that it's a disorder should do everyone else a favor and slit their wrists off-camera now. Oh oh; can't: suicide risk also very low. Drat. Have to make the best of it after all. Drat again.
What arguably is disordered is to use that personality style to mess up other people for fun, if they don't deserve it, because one is too unimaginative and superficial to put those qualities to more productive use.
One could probably be 'rehabilitated' out of superficiality: lack of imagination - not so much.
XK
I loved this. What a refreshing little breath of air!
DeleteTop comment. I laughed with the last paragraph.
DeleteXK, it's this sort of pragmatic narrative shift that can drive changes in approach leading to better outcomes for all.
Frankly, how about ceasing this psycho-crap self-flagellation. It is not a personality disorder to be fearless, charming, unorthodox, goal-driven, adventurous, with low anxiety and high stress-tolerance.
DeleteAnyone with such traits who thinks that it's a disorder should do everyone else a favor and slit their wrists off-camera now. Oh oh; can't: suicide risk also very low. Drat. Have to make the best of it after all. Drat again.
Agreed
What arguably is disordered is to use that personality style to mess up other people for fun, if they don't deserve it, because one is too unimaginative and superficial to put those qualities to more productive use.
it's not either/or. one can be productive and fuck people up mentally or physically for kicks. it doesn't take much to do so when the world is full of retards and weak nothings.
regardless its good to see someone here isnt a total idiot
"If by 'rehabilitated' the psychologist observed that some impulsive and violent criminals [with high PCL-R total scores due to high Factor 2 scores] can mature out of it or be therapeutically trained out of that, with adequate and *kind* therapy and an adequate support structure post-prison - that would be true."
DeleteCorrect. We were not discussing the neuro-somatic aspect. My point was that if the 'low-functioning' (i.e. criminal) psychopaths can find improvement when they want to do so, how much more likely is it in 'high-functioning' people who want to?
These units function differently to prison, A (might not have been around in your father's day). They represent a shift away from the "lock them up and throw away the key mentality" that still prevails within the system.
8-) I know it's not either/or. I agree with your analysis regarding weak nothings.
DeleteNo, I am far from an idiot.
There is nothing 'wrong' with me. I am better at a lot of things than others, I belong to a 'human variant' specifically 'designed' for leadership, judgment, enforcement, exploration and reciprocal, instrumental action. You do what it takes to get the job done.
Domestic[ated] people are afraid of people who do what they like without restraint. They also envy it. So they badmouth it. It make them 'feel' more 'in charge' of a group they prefer didn't exist but they are fascinated by.
Tough shit. Suck it up. Anyone else here who has 'the traits', stop with the apologetics.
Sick and tired of whiny 'I'm a sociopath, pleeze excuse me for breathing'.
And while we're at it, use the correct word. Psychopathic. Afraid of its stigma, are you.
Just like gay, schizophrenic, bipolar, autistic, paedophile.
Anyone see a pattern of control here at all by a gutless majority disturbed by 'worrying' minorities?
Huh? Wake up.
XK
ha ha. yeah psychopaths. stop watering it down. just own up you cunts or step off. i dont give a fuck what you want to call it.
Deletehow about this. i dont care what you think, say or do. i love manipulating people and when you condone the nonsensical actions and irrational behaviour of mine i just have to laugh. i can piss all over your face and you will rationalize it before i can come up with an excuse. that makes most of you retarded and it makes me a fucking god. you are the one who has a disorder if i can manipulate your reality to whatever i see fit even if i know its complete bollocks. so suck it.
@ SansDire
Delete"if the 'low-functioning' (i.e. criminal) psychopaths can find improvement when they want to do so, how much more likely is it in 'high-functioning' people who want to?"
A 'high functioning' psychopathic person would not undertake psychotherapy 'to be rehabilitated' - as by definition they are 'high functioning', and therefore probably out and about enjoying life.
They could, however, seek therapy in an effort to become a more effective psychopath as in: fix that [Cleckley's] 'specific lack of insight' issue, which can trip you up once in a while; or mitigating the 'lack of empathy' issue, which might make you 'a bit under-responsive' 8-) 8-) when your offspring expects empathy, and you give ruthless utilitarian advice instead.
As in:
"Dad, Joey bullied me today in class"
"Kick the sh*t out of him son. Or would you like me to?"
A therapist could come up with something a bit less 'direct', like complaining to the school principal, [which might not be one's first impulse, conceivably...] LOL
Regarding others as retards or weak nothings is unproductive; it reeks of fixed mindset not growth.
DeletePiss all you want, UKan. It doesn't impress me.
XK, I really think you're capable of more imagination. Pattern of control? Normalisation. The dynamics of society is collaboration. That's the species' strength, that's what most neurotypicals recognise. Try to imagine the world from that perspective and understand those mechanisms for normalisation and collaboration derived for a reason: they work. We are all part of the species fabric.
OK, last comment for tonight.
Delete@ North:
"The dynamics of society is collaboration. That's the species' strength,"
Yep, you're collaborating right into a species extinction, with full speed into an unstable climate. Congrats. LOL
"that's what most neurotypicals recognise."
Yep, I too 'recognise' all that 'normalisation' to consume more, eat more, medicate more, diet more, get a bigger car/house; why wouldn't everyone not want to have that kind of 'imagination'. LOL
"Try to imagine the world from that perspective"
Ahh, and there it is: the final resort: attempts at kindly patronisation. How quaint. LOL
"and understand those mechanisms for normalisation and collaboration derived for a reason: they work."
Of course they do. Just not for the poorest huge majority of the 'normalised' human population.
To coin a phrase, your thinking "reeks of fixed mindset not growth."
You can't help it. You're neurotypical. You're not capable of more imagination.
See, there's that mirror again. Recognise it? LOL
XK
Oh yeah, those growth characteristics I saw in you were my own reflection. My mistake.
DeleteLOL
Xx
XK - yes, I was being condescending, sorry. I do get annoyed when I hear/read language like that. I needn't: it's not my battle to fight and doubtless there's residual anger at **-*.
DeleteHappy to start fresh.
Probably: *in spite of* "the time he went to prison", and due to, his maturing years. 8-/
DeleteYeah. He rapidly figured out which of the guards could be bought and seized control of the drug trade. (He was a drug dealer and already had a lot of well established connections and channels on the outside). He told me he made more money in prison than out of it. (He spent quite a bit of time in prison.)
He basically mellowed out with age- but he can still be an ornery old fucker. :P
Frankly, how about ceasing this psycho-crap self-flagellation. It is not a personality disorder to be fearless, charming, unorthodox, goal-driven, adventurous, with low anxiety and high stress-tolerance.
DeleteNo. But what about when these are accompanied by destructive impulsivity, violence and pathological lying? While I possess the traits you listed above, I’ve also dabbled in the ones I mentioned below. And you probably have, too. :P
Anyone with such traits who thinks that it's a disorder should do everyone else a favor and slit their wrists off-camera now. Oh oh; can't: suicide risk also very low. Drat. Have to make the best of it after all. Drat again.
LOL!
Assholes come in a rainbow of flavours- “psycho” being merely one of them.
What arguably is disordered is to use that personality style to mess up other people for fun, if they don't deserve it, because one is too unimaginative and superficial to put those qualities to more productive use. One could probably be 'rehabilitated' out of superficiality: lack of imagination - not so much.
I like the way you put this. I think sublimation is key, and for this, imagination is essential.
8-) I know it's not either/or. I agree with your analysis regarding weak nothings.
I don’t. I’d rather hold myself to a higher standard and shepherd them. They often irritate me, but I still derive satisfaction from leading them.
There is nothing 'wrong' with me. I am better at a lot of things than others, I belong to a 'human variant' specifically 'designed' for leadership, judgment, enforcement, exploration and reciprocal, instrumental action. You do what it takes to get the job done.
… Which is why I’m the president and founder of a non-profit. I can do a lot of the things that I am naturally inclined to do, and benefit people in the process. I find that to be quite gratifying.
Domestic[ated] people are afraid of people who do what they like without restraint. They also envy it. So they badmouth it. It make them 'feel' more 'in charge' of a group they prefer didn't exist but they are fascinated by.
This is true. Some people also envy our ability to act boldly, take risks that most people would balk at, change and take charge so naturally. Those are the ones who are filled with jealousy and self-loathing because they have failed in key areas of their own lives. Others, who possess different strengths, yet who are secure and/or fulfilled on their own terms, actually appreciate these traits. And they are drawn to us like magnets.
Tough shit. Suck it up. Anyone else here who has 'the traits', stop with the apologetics.
Sick and tired of whiny 'I'm a sociopath, pleeze excuse me for breathing'.
I don’t know that I’ve seen a whole lot of that from the psychopathic faction here. I’ve gleefully shared a select few “traits” with several people here, over the years. XD
And while we're at it, use the correct word. Psychopathic. Afraid of its stigma, are you.
Just like gay, schizophrenic, bipolar, autistic, paedophile.
The stigma comes because of its correlation with criminal behaviour. Let’s say you actively fantasize about buggering small children. You’re under control. You don’t molest kiddies behind bushes at the park. You don’t behave in *disordered* ways. But you’re still a paedophile. Should you wear it like a badge of honour?
The difference between owning the labels schizophrenic, gay, bipolar or autistic is that society sees you as the “victim” (in the examples you cite, of mental illness or aberrant sexual preference) whereas like paedophiles, psychopaths victimize others.
And let’s be honest: we do, to a greater or lesser extent. Even I do. And I’m the “good” kind. :P
Anyone see a pattern of control here at all by a gutless majority disturbed by 'worrying' minorities?
I’d be interested in hearing you elaborate upon this.
Please stop using computers & software for analogy of humans. Before it was steam engines & clockwork.
ReplyDeletePeople are not computers. Computers are a pile of ON/OFF switches. Human brain is something completely different.
People have a habit of comparing themselves to the current high tech.
It's true. There's an efficiency of communication in the use of analogy, though, which is why people do it.
Delete35,000 processors to simulate 1 second of brain activity does imply that we are exponentially more complex than anything we've yet to produce, which is definitely worth keeping in mind.
It is not a working analogy, humans do not have software. It creates a illusion, of a machine that can run softwares, that are somehow disconnected from the machine. This is not the case in organic lifeforms.
DeleteMachines are machines, you can program them. Run programs, upload software etc. You can not do this with organic life, removing "software" means to remove parts of the life form itself.
I agree it's an insufficient analogy and human organisms are far richer than machines.
DeleteWhat are your thoughts on neuroplasticity? I've been able to change many behaviour patterns - which are commonly utilised neural pathways. In my experience there's potential for change although it is a lengthy process underpinned by changes to these neural pathways.
Do you think these sorts of changes or those discussed by ME are possible? What's a good way of communicating them?
I like your point that we don't have software: the neural system, intricately integrated with our bodies, is equally physical, organic and adaptive. A physiology lecturer once said we are always (barring illness and injury) perfectly adapted to the demands we place on our body. I like to think this applies psychologically, too, because it is so organic. Optimal adaptation requires vision and planning and training to 'grease the groove' of the desired neurological pathways. That applies equally to strength training and behavioural habits. That's more or less how I think about it... Even 'pathways' is an analogy.
Good and evil? First you show me the test that can be performed to distinguish one from the other and then I will believe they exist.
ReplyDelete-FK
Agreed. It's rhetoric, a reflection of power.
DeleteFirst of all even sociopath's biggest critic, Robert Hare, has said psychopathy is not a personality disorder so there is no cure.
ReplyDeleteEven in his particular area, Hare is unfailingly circumspect. Asked if he thinks there will ever be a cure for psychopathy -- a drug, an operation -- Hare steps back and examines the question. "The psychopath will say 'A cure for what?' I don't feel comfortable calling it a disease. Much of their behaviour, even the neurobiological patterns we observe, could be because they're using different strategies to get around the world. These strategies don't have to involve faulty wiring, just different wiring."
Are these people qualitatively different from us? "I would think yes," says Hare. "Do they form a discrete taxon or category? I would say probably -- the evidence is suggesting that. But does this mean that's because they have a broken motor? I don't know. It could be a natural variation." True saints, completely selfless individuals, are rare and unnatural too, he points out, but we don't talk about their being diseased.
I'm pretty sick of all this poor me shite and the poor oppressed fake sociopaths on this site. this has been a haven basically for the uber armchair nihilist philosophers to get birds to feel the "fix my broken mental state and make me feel" bollocks or people role playing BBC's sherlock as some fucktard with aspergers that has super powers. its pathetic. 9/10 of you never committed a crime in your life and havent had any notion to do so outside of some small part of your brain wanting to free yourself from your ivory tower of internet self taught shite that you havent experienced in real life.
heres the reality plain and simple you cunts. we get away with a lot more than most people, we fuck more, we make more money, people put up with more shite, and we get lighter sentences than 99% of the population. thats not just coming from studies, thats coming from experience. we burn everything in our path on purpose and we don't give a toss about who's getting mixed up in the ashes.
so stop pitter pattering around like you know how it works or trying to get sympathy and playing the tortured soul role. if you are tortured by who you are go join the suicide hotline and sell that poor tortured sociopath shite to some dumb cunt at the bar. pretend like you are me to pick up on some abuse magnet. when she finds out you are a bitch she will leave you for some bloke that will blacken her eye and you will wonder what happened.
hear it from the horses mouth. we have it fucking good and people like me regret nothing. you want a cure for who you are swallow a bullet.
Seconded.
DeleteXK
xk we see eye to eye
DeleteAssuredly.
DeleteLate evening here; goodnight.
XK
This UKAN character's balls probably disappear when he gets confronted in real life. He's so afraid of people he has to manipulate. Then he hides his shame by pretending to be all macho & proud to be a degenerate. Grow a heart.
DeleteLook at you, you've become worse than a low life. All you do is anonymously post your filth all night...and to think he can easily turn around and become something genuinely great.
DeleteFucking wanker. You mischaracterize everyone all the time- even going so far as to lump every psycho here into one person who (gasp!) posts here solely to manipulate *you*. Nevermind what this blog is about, or its history. We're all just here to fuck with YOU. You know what actually believing that makes you? A stupid narcissist who is literally blinded by his delusions.
DeleteYour ex has forgotten you. He dumped you like yesterday's trash and has moved in... But look at you, over here, nursing your pathetic little grudge...
*You're* the one posting and swallowing heaps of filth from that book of lies you worship. *You're* the one hiding out on this blog, avoiding confrontation with the object of your unrequited lust, and the author of your angst. You're the fucking coward, Joanie.
Before you chide others about their missing body parts, perhaps you ought to grow a pair. Little men with small balls living in fragile glass houses shouldn't throw stones they can only hurl incompetently and innacurately. :P
I told you I don't mind your insults but lying and turning something pure into something disgusting does irk me. Don't turn "unrequited love" into "unrequited lust." You don't apparently (psychopath) know how big of an assault that is on someone like me.
DeleteEnjoy the weather. Relax.
Oh, I know exactly how big of an assault that is on someone like you. Why do you think I said it? I can taste your weakness, Joanie... It tastes like yellow-bellied liver. XD
DeleteHe never loved you. He used you and tossed you aside like an old dish rag. When you accept that truth, perhaps you will finally let go of the delusional defense mechanisms you cling to like a senseless hermit crab. :P
I know he did all that, why do you think I don't talk to him or reach out anymore? He owes me an apology. He did all that but there's more to him than just that. I know there's a gorgeous, genuinely intelligent and potentially brilliant man in the making - he's just trapped and needs to come out. If you came across a treasure trove, would you give it up just because you have to face some danger along the way?
DeleteYou don't know what real love is.
If he were with me right now, I'd place both my hands on his beautiful face, make him look me in the eyes and tell him what he means to me. How much my heart yearns for him at this moment.
DeleteNo joke that took me a while to write and it wasn't easy posting. I'm working on this part of my emotions - expressing what I truly feel. So don't make a crude joke out of it or try to take advantage of my "weakness," please.
...Aaand you'd be looking into the piercing blue eyes of a woman who has been happily married for over decade, you fucking ninny. The delusional dimwit who sees the ghost of his abusive gay ex lover hiding behind every bush is telling *me* that I don’t know what love is. LOL!
DeleteBy all means, please keep it up. This is very entertaining. :)
I appreciate what you wrote Jonaid.
DeleteYou're pining after an asshole who took you for ride because it titillated his base impulses. You're wasting your emotions on someone who had absolutely no regard for yours, Jihadi. You need to let him go. As evidenced by your behaviour on this blog, you'll stay stuck in the same place until you do.
DeleteMy observations are that Jonaid is going through that process.
DeleteIt takes a long time. Even this week I am weeping and it's been nearly two years. It's not about **-* anymore, it's more and more about growing into the places he stretched me too in just the manner I choose. My grief now is for that childhood self I diminished to fit the mould of my father. Those tears first escaped in **-*'s arms. I thought he was my friend and I felt comfortable with him and I was very, very wrong. But it was not a mistake to recognise that squashed self within me. I rejoice that part of me is free: I did that.
Perhaps psychopaths instinctively know how to hook people, but I don't think they genuinely understand the mechanisms involved and why the hooks are so painful/difficult to extricate.
Trust is a weakness only in a very specific and very limited sense - as defined by psychopaths. I reject the psychopathic definition because I do not operate in the same mode.
Trust is an infinitely powerful tool and with any such tool, it should be used skilfully.
Trust is the species' strength*. It is literally the reason the species exists today. To have someone violate trust - even if it was a mistake to let them in - changes a person irrevocably. How do we make space for these events, make sense of them - not only in our conceptions of the human condition and sociality, but also of our own relationships? how do we develop healthy relationships.
While the question is "how do we make space" and the process difficult, the fact remains that we CAN make sense of it, we can reasonably and productively account for the psychopathic element in the human species.
This is the crux of my argument: we are adapting and expanding and creating a richer toolset for living. Articulating the idea of pain as weakness creates a one-dimensional, time-constrained narrative that suits the psychopath's purpose - it is definitely not a complete and consistent narrative nor a useful model for anything other than propping up an ego or poking some fun (A, I am not saying this is what you are doing, I am referring more to others such as UKan and Adam and reiterate my point that alphas and gods have their followers/worshippers and don't need to wander around beating their chests.)
The pain and tears we experience are both the prompt AND the tool to learn because it's emotional experiences that facilitate neuroplasticity. Psychological pain is a magnificent adaptive mechanism when embraced, just as physical pain is. The inputs must be integrated in both cases.
Through emotional pain we learn to develop resilience: capacity to absorb and respond to unexpected environmental changes. We have a greater range of tools and practices to deploy as needed. Robustness or specifically developed strengths, on the other hand, is fragility; strength is brittle. It's having all your eggs in one basket.
Notice that the stiffest tree is most easily cracked, while the bamboo or willow survives by bending with the wind.
The good thing is we can choose the direction of change - yet it is a physiological process and time consuming. Did you ever have reconstructive surgery from a sports injury? I use that as an analogy here because there are clear physical restrictions on the rate of healing.
I am "working out my salvation" (apologies for misappropriating a Biblical phrase - I don't mean any harm by it) here on this blog. We are, I'm sure, none of us saints but it's a productive place. Jonaid is on his own journey and I think there is ample evidence of that, his post above being the most recent. He did share his story of "almost becoming sociopathic"; these are probably valuable steps for him.
* I found this article in the latest New Scientist magazine at the newsagent today: A Natural History of Human Morality: why being good is a miracle
DeleteTomasello notes: “Young children are equally satisfied both when they help someone in need and when they see that person being helped by a third party… This suggests… their motivation is not to provide help themselves but only to see that the other person is helped.” From this, he surmises that early humans were probably moral, in that they had a sense of fairness and obligation towards others. But this nascent morality applied only between individuals, not at group level.
The scaled-up, group-wide morality we recognise today emerged only some 100,000 to 150,000 years ago, when larger groups of humans started outcompeting smaller ones. From then on, safety lay in numbers. Since no one could be intimately acquainted with more than around 150 individuals at any time (the famous Dunbar’s number), humans of that era suddenly needed a way of recognising other members of their newly expanded tribes. The solution: make everybody conform, by dressing alike or adopting similar behaviours. Cultural identity then became part of individual identity, and a group-minded moral psychology followed. The rest is history.
“It is a miracle that we are moral, and it did not have to be this way. It just so happens that, on the whole, those of us who made mostly moral decisions most of the time had more babies… We should simply marvel and celebrate the fact that, mirabile dictu (and Nietzsche notwithstanding), morality appears to be somehow good for our species, our cultures, and ourselves – at least so far.”
I, naturally, am pleased to see this supports my model of normalisation underpinning morality :) but I should probably read the book.
DeleteAs I mentioned, it was an emotional day and that is usually followed by a period of synthesis; my form of creativity and one of my deep pleasures.
DeleteI am specifically challenging the psychopathic viewpoint of trust as weakness.
DeleteI am here to understand more of your perspective but just as ESTP and ME point out: integration goes both ways.
PS to Mr Hyde: hello again. I don't mind if you call me a "shit disturber" - I hope you can also recognise my purpose is more than trouble-making. I see more useful mechanisms to reach good outcomes and I like to challenge people to new understandings.
I do it in every sphere of my life. The CEO of my publicly-listed company copped it in December with no warning whatsoever and to her credit and my joy she has responded. It's a measure of her quality and certainly not of my delivery (which was as impassioned and ham-fisted as I am here sometimes.) Nevertheless, it's usually me with the balls to challenge the status quo and bring change. I have vision; I am developing technique... and patience (although that's still rather hypothetical.)
North I think it is so important to go thru the process. Sociopaths want you to stay in a state of unawareness. They use terms like get over it-move on-to make you push down your personal truth. They are so terrified of awareness. There is nothing weak about you or me or anyone who fights for their own truth.
DeleteMove on. Its a command. We are not cattle. I'll move on when I damn well please.
DeleteThanks Anon.
DeleteThis reminds me of something my ex-husband (narc) said: "I put fear in you without your knowledge".
This is a control pattern similar to my ex husband's. Yeah, it makes sense :)
He'll come around one day when he realizes how little control he really has in the world. When the games don't work anymore, when they backfire big time and there is no one to turn to but God Himself, he'll realize and remember then. Best of luck until then.
DeletePeace.
"You're wasting your emotions on someone who had absolutely no regard for yours, Jihadi. You need to let him go."
DeleteThis was cute. You care about me not being stuck on something you consider fruitless. Ahhhhhhhhh
Shhh. :P
Delete"Care" might be a bit strong, but I bothered to write it, didn't I?
;)
You did and I really appreciate it. I know you said it because you genuinely don't want me to be hurt. It's these subtleties that made me fall for him - I know he could've been a bigger asshole than he was but he wasn't. What kept him back other than his beautiful, cuddly, true self he's tucked away deep down.
DeleteI have encountered at least three sociopaths that I know of in the last five years, and have come to understand that unlike empaths, they are acting in a manner they perceive as highly rational, logical, and sensible. If all of us were "wired" not to need love, empathy, and compassion in order to feel "normal," we would act as sociopaths do.
ReplyDeleteI am not suggesting that I condone or like sociopathic behavior, but I understand it better after my experiences. The philosopher and poet Ralph Waldo Emerson once said that "good and bad are but names very readily transferable to that or this—the only right is what is after my constitution—the only wrong is what is against it—what I must do is all that concerns me." Although this quote is taken out of context, and Emerson was by no means suggesting that we should all behave as sociopaths do, there is some logic here.
Sociopaths intrigue me, so much so, that I published a novel, Molly Bonamici, which has a few sociopathic, even likeable characters.
Indeed. They operate in a different mode that is entirely valid.
DeleteWhat some fail to recognise is that are other modes, including goal sets and pleasures, are equally valid.
Many neurotypicals do label them evil or devils because that's the inherited framework. I consider this framework a poor tool and am working to create new understandings through various avenues.
Similarly, some psychopaths prefer to think of themselves as gods and the rest of us as weak. Again, this is an unproductive framework. It's not a goal of mine to change that perception, though. I lack the empathy needed (I consider empathy a projection of our own experience - I did this above with spectacularly woeful results.)
But regardless of framework, the social contract remains in place and we all normalise to the degree we each consider provides good ROI using the toolsets we possess. Whether considered gods or devils, they are, in fact, human and Homo sapiens is a social species.
When one has nothing but contempt for humans and one is in fact a Human-well I imagine that is a problem.
DeleteIn my opinion sociopaths are furious they are even bound to a human body-themselves. They are incapable of understanding their own human experience. They don't even like sex. Control. That's what they want. And food. So damn alien.
DeleteSociopaths have no desire to experience community or society or anything they can't lord over. That is what we allmustt cconstantly keep in mind. They are not one of us. They never will be. And thats eexactly what they want. Society is naturally more inclusive than exclusive. Society is not the problem.
DeleteInteresting points.
Delete"Sociopaths have no desire to experience community or society or anything they can't lord over. That is what we all must constantly keep in mind."
That's powerful phrasing and valuable.
It's also my view that the problematic difference is the psychopath's drive to "lord over" society or individuals within it. That's the tension for them and for us.
At an individual level awareness helps us because once we understand their patterns and are aware of our own, they cannot have power over us regardless of how they make nuisances of themselves. This is how we have mercy for ourselves. Self awareness opens doors for growth.
At the societal level - where justice systems operate - they either generally normalise or they lose freedoms. The problem, well articulated by Thomas Szasz, is that most damage humans do to each other is not illegal. That, in his opinion, saw the genesis of psychiatry, which is also ill-equipped and a flawed system in his opinion (I don't know enough to have an opinion.)
I agree that society is not "the problem"; I am trying to argue and position for society to be better equip itself to address the problem - that tension we have been talking about. I think mechanisms will emerge for the sake of efficiency because as we are culturally more aware of psychopathic injury, the individual aching for justice (ie recompense/retribution), for which there are minimal avenues currently available, will grow to a chorus and then a crescendo. We will develop more effective practices as a group for dealing with the problem of psychopathic injury. It's a matter of raising our voices. I also think some psychopaths will benefit from greater awareness and will find ways (as ME and some others here do) of living more satisfying lives. That's up to the individual really.
The social contract will continue to operate in the meantime and regardless of any considering themselves gods, their scope is naturally limited.
"In my opinion sociopaths are furious they are even bound to a human body-themselves. They are incapable of understanding their own human experience. They don't even like sex. Control. That's what they want. And food. So damn alien."
DeleteThis is a great description.
"Incapable of understanding their own human experience."
It seems so sadly bereft. A skeletal frame, endlessly rapacious.
"Sociopaths have no desire to experience community or society or anything they can't lord over. That is what we allmustt cconstantly keep in mind. They are not one of us. They never will be. And thats eexactly what they want. Society is naturally more inclusive than exclusive. Society is not the problem."
DeleteSociopaths can change and it has happened millions of time. I agree with the rest of the comment.
No, dimwit. Can you change your sexual orientation? No. You can only change your behaviours. What have I been telling you for months? You don't hear anyone other than yourself.
DeleteI used to think in a similar way, but I was a deluded, narcissistic idiot who was full of herself.
Personality traits like fearless dominance, courage, impulsivity and a propensity for aggression and manipulation don't simply disappear. Believing in God does not magically confer affective (emotional) empathy to a person. I should know. :P
If a psychopath "changes" it is because he or she changes his conduct. There are positive ways to channel those traits.
You set empathy upon a pedestal, but revere one of the most devious, power-hungry, megalomaniacal, deceptive, tyrannical and decidedly unempathetic men in history- yet you are so dense that you're comically oblivious to the irony of it all.
Psychopathy is not "fixed" in ways sexual orientation seems to be.
DeleteRelajate.
"Believing in God does not magically confer affective (emotional) empathy to a person. I should know."
DeleteIt is a gradual process and you have to be willing to change. You've only gotten more psychopathic over the past three months of back & forth with me here. Still I trust in God and I trust in the guy I met - deep down he's a soldier and he's going to come out of this nightmare.
Psychopathy is not "fixed" in ways sexual orientation seems to be.
DeleteAnd how would you know? You're not a psychopath!
I have a lot of psychopathic traits. And I am telling you: it is not as simple as just having faith in God and being willing to change. These traits are *hard-wired*. I cannot manufacture emotions such as empathy any more than you can quell your same-sex attractions. And while a lack of empathy may be problematic in some situations, it is a definite advantage in others.
Still, as hard as it may be for you to believe, I am not living in some nightmare. I am professionally and personally fulfilled. My career is oriented around helping others, Joanie. I may be the psycho, but can you say the same?
I've clarified this multiple times. I know because I'm far more empathetic today than I was a year ago, than I was 6 months ago. My heart has gotten stronger and I've become happier, more content, and more empathetic. I wasn't a psychopath (although I almost became one) but I made a huge leap on the spectrum thanks to God. Psychopaths are just far behind on that same spectrum.
DeleteAwakened people have "switches." They are aware that they can turn on or off their empathy. It's how you choose to behave with that "gift" that determines if you will ultimately become psychopathic or not. A default lack of empathy (which is not an emotion like you keep repeating) does NOT explain evil or sinister behavior. It only explains indifference in a neutral context (i.e. watching a dog get run over...won't make a difference to you but it shouldn't prompt you to run over a dog needlessly).
The ability to control your emotions IS a good thing and IS advantageous IF you choose to use it for GOOD ends. If you choose to use it for selfish, manipulative, deceptive, sinister, evil ends - you are a psychopath. If you are well aware of who's ultimately pulling the strings, you are a devil. Try twisting it around all you like. The Bible can leave you with an impression of a God who can be tricked but if you ever read the Quran sincerely, you'd know - as is obvious to anyone with the ability to reason objectively - that all power is with God alone. He can, at any moment, destroy you. It is out of His Mercy & Compassionate and His Plan that you - and all of us - are allotted a fixed time period. You are free to do what you can in that period, be it manipulate and deceive or turn to God and use your talents for good. Ultimately you will die and to God you will return. There is no middleman, there is no arbitration, the Devil & his spirit minions have NO power - they along with their human companions will end up in hell.
DeleteI have more faith in my "friend" than he does and I pray and hope he won't end up in the wrong camp.
"I do think that everybody has an identity, a core identity that came with us from birth and is written into our genes and would have expressed itself much the same no matter where in the multiverse "we" currently are.
ReplyDeleteNot sure exactly how much is written into our genes, M.E. Yes, we are born with certain propensities, but that is not the same thing as having a hard-drive back up that somehow predisposes the person to act out in predictable ways. We can choose at any moment to act or not. I believe that whatever is going on is more complicated than that, a mixture of genetic wiring combined with environmental circumstances and quite possibly an X factor, presently unknown. The invisible, unknowable, innate spirit of a man or woman, has a profound impact on gene expression, and other stuff, I'm convinced. Epigenetics suggests that our responses in life impact our progeny.
"That identity is never rooted in any sort of evil . . ."
Really? Hitler and his minions manifested evil via their bigoted and warped philosophy on every level of their administration. Six million died. If that's not projecting your dark side onto the Other I don't know what is.
"never corrupted by this society and its well-meaning or malicious attempts to mold people.
It's true. Society does attempt to mold people. For good and bad. Often with horrific results: Hitler. Etc., Etc. History is strewn with countless examples of power-hungry leaders whom have slaughtered for their own benefit. On the other hand, cooperation between people and species no doubt benefits everyone.
"Everyone is like a computer that has a backup version stored somewhere, not corrupted viruses or user error or anything else. And if you can just get back to that backup version and restore the harddrive to that, no more virus, no more sociopathy, no more of any type of personality disorder."
The neurological backup you speak of may or may not exist. And I'll tell you why I think the analogy of computer is inadequate: Life is first and foremost adaptable on all physiological, mental and spiritual levels. Life is fluid. It flows with and into individual and species potential and thus diversity. Nature's way is to experiment.
Personally, I don't feel like my being has some type of preprogrammed back up default. I don't believe that any living being, is predictable in terms of a genetic backup or any other physical phenomena. I.E., astrology.
Life is infinitely more than the sum of Its parts.
Mr. Hyde
We can choose at any moment to act or not. I believe that whatever is going on is more complicated than that, a mixture of genetic wiring combined with environmental circumstances and quite possibly an X factor, presently unknown. The invisible, unknowable, innate spirit of a man or woman, has a profound impact on gene expression, and other stuff, I'm convinced. Epigenetics suggests that our responses in life impact our progeny.
DeleteYes!!
Mr. Hyde-
ReplyDeleteI love that:
"Life is infinitely more than the sum of Its parts."
SO TRUE!!!
~Vegas
rumah dijual
ReplyDeleterumah kampung
rumah kampung
rumah kampung
Testimony By Wendy Owen, Getting my Ex back !
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You are retarded.
Delete