I thought this analogy was pretty interesting, from a comment from a pretty recent post:
Imagine, a script for every occasion, all kept in several filing cabinets; a secretary sits at a desk nearby, jabbing her fingers away at a typewriter keeping notes and processing the continuous stream of thoughts I'm having that are being used to adapt and write new scripts for me to perform. I might ask her to fetch a script from one of the drawers in the cabinets when I need it, or sometimes I spontaneously do improvised acting, flying script free. I like to improvise especially when it's in my best interests to do so, as prior scripts don't always suit the occasion. Afterwards I sit on the top of my secretary's desk and write a new script using the new material from what was improvised, sipping some hot black coffee and musing on how to better perfect my art of acting.
1st!!!
ReplyDelete~Vegas
I remember writing this, from an interesting conversation between me, North, and some other anonymous user.
ReplyDeleteThere's a "script" I use often enough that I like to call the Femme Fatale. I find it to be quite effective against men that I have discerned to be likely vulnerable to feminine wiles. The swaying of the hips, the flowery hand gestures, the batting of the eyelashes. I switch from my usual voice to a higher, breathier one that passes perfectly even over the phone for a woman's voice. Draw out the syllables of your words frequently, and so on. Exaggerated stereotypical female mannerisms basically, with well articulated seduction skill to put the dark chocolate frosting on the devil's food cake decorated with pretty red cherries on top. It's worked on seemingly heterosexual men(! Feminine signals leading to sexual confusion possibly or was I really picking up on bi/ambisexuality?), white knight police officers, lesbians(Same !), etc..
It's always nice to have a useful script for every occasion.
ESTP Sociopath
Tindersticks: Chocolate Artfully developed.
DeleteI've read we're all a bit fluid in our sexuality to varying degrees. I remember feeling slightly attracted to a masculine looking lesbian rugby player (we were rivals, it was an interesting tension for me. The last time I played her she shoved me off the ball and I later threw a punch). Actually, maybe three, but they always had masculine characteristics.
GTG, work. What do you think of the fluidity?
Hey North-
DeleteThanks for the music.:)
~Vegas
Fluidity of sexuality amongst everyone? I think it could be possible. My experience for example is that if you present yourself in a manner that's feminine and behave in a distinctly feminine way I draw the attention of even those who would otherwise not be attracted to me if I presented myself as masculine.
DeleteI've always been very noticeably androgynous, and I've greatly used that to my advantage. I could shave all my visible body hair, shave my face, apply just the right illusion with makeup, and dress in a way that both compliments my body shape and feminizes, I can quite easily pass as a woman (or sometimes even just unintentionally, I'd pick out whatever outfit I'd like to wear thinking it's quite masculine and not even any makeup at all and be out and about, use the men's restroom and be asked to turn around and go to the women's restroom). It's always been like this for me since I was a very young child, I remember being hardly older then four years old and being introduced to adult friends of my parents and they very often could not tell if I was a boy or a girl; my mannerisms and behavior patterns and so on did not seem specifically male or female enough to other people, so discerning my gender was difficult. It made some of my earliest years of public education different I suppose, I was constantly questioned by the other children if I was a boy or a girl and none of them really wanted to be friends with me because I was so incredibly alien to them.
I'm equally comfortable presenting as woman or man; I could wear a overtly feminine outfit and look stunning in my opinion, or slick my hair back with pomade and wear a pompadour along with wearing a leather jacket and blue jeans to be a tall, dark and handsome stranger. When I switch outwardly gender presentation, I change the mannerisms amd behavior I exhibit with those from the opposite gender. It's basically switching from "male" script to "female" script and vice versa.
I'm sure I might have more commentary on this, but the hour is late and I'm tired.
ESTP Sociopath
Thanks for these stories - I do find them plausible because we are very visual animals and look for specific visual clues. Pattern recognition, inherited archetypes even.
DeleteAn experiment I'd like to try is to choose a subculture and immerse myself in its style completely, just to observe the different way people respond to me. I haven't gotten around to it, but it's almost enough to differences in response with style variations in my own wardrobe eg skirt suits I wear for work as opposed to my sports attire. I have a striking haircut and used to find the most masculine looking of men - you know, the massive gym junkie types - could take 2 - 3 months to warm to me (I'm quite friendly and engaging.) Other people tended to be hesitant, and I'd be blamed for minor things in social situations I had nothing to do with. Dying my hair blonde has eliminated all of that.
What wonderful, adaptive organisms we are.
I love the idea of our being the spiralling, reaching, interweaving points of evolutionary history with billions of years' of primal programming stirring incessantly through every cell of our beings. What a river! It's not for me to hold it back; rather to shape the direction as I can within its irresistible flow.
Always lovely to chat with you ESTP Sociopath.
My favorite "script" is the Dumb Giant or Hodor. So many people are willing to let their guard down when I put on that foolish grin, slouch my shoulders, and walk with a rolling ponderous gait. People are always willing to believe that the oafish fool they see is simple, jolly, and innocent, any breach in etiquette can be passed off as a idiocy or ignorance. Yet small innocent seeming comments can set friend against friend, never suspecting that the jolly green giant is laughing behind the veneer of the large pasted on grin. . I can wiggle my way out of any situation despite my size just by letting others see what the expect to see. I greatly enjoy that "script"
ReplyDeleteGive this men an Oscar
Delete^Give this "man" a lesson in basic grammar. :P
DeleteA-
DeleteYou read my mind.:)
~Vegas
I know. I couldn't edit it
DeleteI have a lot of scripts depending on the situation. But the one I have most fun with is the pure innocent good human being script. It's simple. I act like I'm the most moral person on earth. I'm nice, I don't gossip, I share, I help, I advise, I pretty much sound like jesus christ. A girl once told me I'm the purest person she's met. And it all seems pretty great. everyone tells me their secrets, their worries, they come for advice. That lasts until I have some kind of relationship with the person. When I do, I start, gradually, making others feel like they are bad people. In the beggining little by little I build in them the sense of morality I want them to have. And because we're all human and everyone makes mistakes they do to. I take every little mistake and turn their whole world upside down. They leave feeling guilty, doubting their identity and in the end losing it. Then I sit there like jesus christ while they are trying to figure out why they are such terrible people. Until they've lost all sense of identity and purpose and are wondering around searching for themselves. Like a person looking for their jacket while wearing it the whole time.
ReplyDelete-VN
In other words a way to "kill" without getting your hands dirty.
Delete-VN
It's also a good way to significantly increase your likelihood of ending up in Hell once you croak. Pretending like it doesn't exist and you'll get off without anyone finding out is a dangerous fantasy to be indulging in.
Delete<3 Christian love
Delete-VN
VN-
DeleteJonaid is not Christian-he is Muslim.
I am Christian, and felt compelled to make that distinction.:)
~Vegas
Excuse me then for my mistake (not ironic)...<3
Delete-VN
Hey VN,
DeleteMay I ask what you consider happens next with the person you targeted? Interested in your views as your expressions so far are quite compelling.
Cheers
Hello North :) Before I answer you, Do you mean generally what happens? or after this specific type of treatment? Also, after the part where they are left wondering?
Delete-VN
Thanks VN - I was wondering what you observe after this type of treatment, but more general reflections are also welcome :)
DeleteLosing your identity and doubting everything you ever believed is a big deal. After this type, of treatment they go through a long period of nothingness, pretty much just existing. Until at some point they start regaining a sense of self and they start self reflecting. At some point in their self reflection they find that not everything in their head is theirs, and that I am the one who on purpose planted those seeds of doubt. In the end when I’m long gone they might realize my bad intentions, the realization must be really iritating. Like catching your mother putting poison in your food. How long it will last probably depends on the person. I believe this is how it is because I’ m still close to some of them (physically, not hanging out), and I see their stare changing from love, to nostalgia, to anger, to disgust, and if lucky (for them) they eventually stop giving me any kind of attention. After their experience with me they go through the stages of grief. Because I have the ability to take their dignity away from them and kill it. I believe the strong ones eventually rebuild it, and probably it stands even stronger than before, and they become more accepting of their flaws. Scar tissue. Of course I’m not saying that what I do is good for them, I’m just pointing out facts. This is generally what I have noticed and I believe about this one, which is I think my strongest gun. You can either hurt someone in their face, behind their back, or from the inside. The third is the most lasting. I like seeing beautiful tall towers and finding just the right screw to pull out. The top is the most fragile, but the base is what it's all depending on. I've had people consider me their best friends for years, fall in love with me, worship me, hate me, envy me. It's funny you know. All I am to them is the reflection of what they wish they were, what they wish they had. In reality I'm dust. Just the type that gets into your eyes. People with insecurity have holes in them, through which I get inside. Holes to their heart. The best thing anyone can do if they ever meet someone like me is walk away and love themselves. But guess what. Empaths.
Delete-VN
Hey VN-
DeleteI'm glad you are posting-that was a good summation.:)
Do you also "revive" people?
~Vegas
Thankyou VN.
Delete" At some point in their self reflection they find that not everything in their head is theirs, and that I am the one who on purpose planted those seeds"
The most staggering - and liberating - realisation was the flexibility of my own beliefs and cognitions.
"All I am to them is the reflection of what they wish they were, what they wish they had."
Yes indeed. The Architect [13secs]: Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness.
I prefer to think in terms of beliefs and survival though. I now simply regard myself as an organism, trust my own brain and get out of my own way.
I enjoyed your insights; you have an astute style about you.
VN's tail is sticking out.
DeleteIt was a pleasure North :) I don’t know exactly the situation your life is in but it sounds like you’re in a healthy shape. You seem to be in the understanding process. Dealing with things with calmness and not with anger. You’re back on your legs and now it’s your choice whether you’re going to fall or rise. Having the choice is the most important thing. On the bottom line all we have to do (if our basic needs are there, or most of them) is do what we have to do. You will find, if you haven’t yet, that you rarely don’t know what you have to do and what is good for you. It’s one of the reasons I believe that I’m holding the knife, but the victim is the one leading my hand. Or if I say it more bluntly provokes it. So you will know you have some issues with yourself when something like this happens. Because it means instead of protecting yourself, you are programmed for self destruction. Reprogram yourself. I don’t force poison into anyones mouth, they actually open it wide open.
Delete-VN
Your welcome Vegas :) No I don't revive people if you mean, help them find their way back up. I believe I am really great for an advise person but just for a little. Because if the fish stays long enough around me and shows some blood, the shark is going to bite. I have the ability to be a super nice and a super mean person. So I think it's better to judge myself based on my intentions, and you know them. I'm good for a bit, I'm really cooperative, espesially if I need to work together for something I need. I do revive people, but with bad intentions and temporarily. It's a classic manipulative technique, you scare away the child, and then you open your hands wide open for a hug, the child is so startled, it's in the survival mode, It seeks relief. It falls in the trap of temporary relief, and the abuse goes on. The thing is that you guys have the tools to rise, we just make you believe you have no legs. I only rise people for a good fall. I strongly believe myself to be high functioning, because I can take white and turn it into black.
Delete-VN
Thankyou, VN, for sharing your views and observations.
DeleteMy story has been told here many times. Briefly: I wanted my life to explode and **-* was happy to oblige. From ground zero, I have grown in deeper commerce with my whole self. It is all cyclical and anger, when it comes, is a most beautiful, powerful liberating energy. Healing is an unchoreographed yet integrating neural dance into previously unknown neural regions. The healing is well beyond the damage **-* caused; as you hint at, he utilised far deeper pains for his game of chess with me.
I think he tried the tactics you explained; to this day these elements of his behaviour made no sense to me. But it's no matter. Most of his arrows missed their mark; lost in the sea of confusion, the gulf between neurotypical and psychopath.
I was desperate for safety and I found it in myself - and much more besides.
Most of his arrows missed their mark. I love this. You were stronger than you realized. Good for you north. :-)
DeleteAnd also the arrogant ones are not the zen archers they delude themselves to believe they are.
DeleteAnd north be as angry as you want to be. You have every right. It is a cleansing by fire.
DeleteVn i have speculated the cycle sociopaths partake in is symbolic of "killing" without the actual physical act. Its interesting that you stated that. Can you explain your drive further? What it fulfills in you?
DeleteTo the irritated anonymous,
DeleteI never told North not to feel anger. I said what I concluded about him from his previous messages. Anger is indeed natural and nessecary since it's part of the acceptance process(the full realization of what happened that will give the power to leave it behind and I don't mean forgotten). I responded that way because from my knowledge in psychology in the stages of grief to acceptance, anger is the second stage. Complete calmness comes when anger is gone, from what I know. And don't get me wrong by anger gone I don't mean displeasure about what happened. But rage that numbs the senses and leads to feelings of depression.
-VN
I'm not sure what to say about the drive and what it fulfills in me. It happens. And even though I've become more "mature" (able,acting less on impulse), I know that whatever happens to me or to the world, whatever experience I go through, however I change my look, my character, my groups, my partners. I will always be me. This is what everything I do boils down to. I think I will have to leave your question partly unanswered. But if the answer really matters to you just think about the most hideous thing you can, it doesn't matter, I don't think any reason would make sense to you anyway. We are antisocial, the term says it all.
Delete-VN
VN thank you for your response. I find it interesting that socios must "kill"off characters before moving to the next one. It seems to have something to do with convincing themselves they made the right decision. Who knows. There seems to be many many layers and underneath I'm not sure if socio even fully understand their true motivation outside of reward. I'm just tired of hearing people say they really don't know why they do things. But maybe they really don't.
DeleteHey VN-
DeleteThank you, for your candor.:)
I think you are quite high functioning.:)
We do have the tools to rise.:) I shared this quote with North, not too long ago:
MANIFESTO OF THE BRAVE AND BROKENHEARTED
There is no greater threat to the critics
and cynics and fearmongers
Than those of us who are willing to fall
Because we have learned how to rise.
With skinned knees and bruised hearts;
We choose owning our stories of struggle,
Over hiding, over hustling, over pretending.
When we deny our stories, they define us.
When we run from struggle, we are never free.
So we turn toward truth and look it in the eye.
We will not be characters in our stories.
Not villains, not victims, not even heroes.
We are the authors of our lives.
We write our own daring endings.
We craft love from heartbreak,
Compassion from shame,
Grace from disappointment,
Courage from failure.
Showing up is our power.
Story is our way home. Truth is our song.
We are the brave and brokenhearted.
We are rising strong.
-Brene Brown, Rising Strong
I noticed, that you also like to use the word "rise"...
~Vegas
@anon 3.06 pm:
DeleteI have no wish to assume on VM's behalf. The above are merely suggestions.
"socios must "kill" off characters before moving to the next one."
It ensures finality. So the person you're bored with [by then] is deterred from hanging on/around. A utilitarian decision merely, to prevent more boredom.
"It seems to have something to do with convincing themselves they made the right decision."
No. If it doesn't suit you to do it- you don't. When you have high self-confidence ['egocentricity'], what you do is what you want to do. You do because you can. No need to 'convince yourself'.
"I'm just tired of hearing people say they really don't know why they do things."
Not half as tired as being asked 'why do you do this, that, the other' by people who will never get any insight regardless. Because the two mindsets are different.
Everyone's motivations are based on reward. It's the definition of 'reward' that differs, hence, motivations also differ.
"But maybe they really don't."
There's no hidden desire to deceive; but something that's natural to oneself is not usually questioned [by anyone], that's all.
Being whimsical, for no reason whatsoever, is perhaps what is meant by VM's:
"I don't think any reason would make sense to you anyway. We are antisocial, the term says it all."
XK
@ previous comment; scrap the word 'above', I meant 'following' XK
DeleteVN, you’re very much like how I conceptualize my socio friend to be. That being said he’ll never tell me directly what he’s intending. He’s the king of indirection. I think that’s his strength; I’m always wondering what he’s meaning until I’m going crazy trying to figure out if I’m just going crazy and being paranoid or if he’s messing with me covertly. When you said “I'm nice, I don't gossip, I share, I help, I advise, I pretty much sound like jesus christ. A girl once told me I'm the purest person she's met.” That’s how I feel at times with him exactly. I almost want to think, well maybe you are him! Haha!!
DeleteThe interesting thing to me though is that he’ll slip in all these little hints to his actual nature. Do you do that to mess with people? It’s subtle, which increases the crazy making feeling in myself, “Did I actually notice that or was it me being paranoid again?” That being said I knew his nature from the near beginning. But I suppose I was curious about how he interacted with others. There’s a blurry picture that becomes ever clearer and more precise the more I interact with him and get to study his tactics.
In regards to “I take every little mistake and turn their whole world upside down. They leave feeling guilty, doubting their identity and in the end losing it. Then I sit there like jesus christ while they are trying to figure out why they are such terrible people” I feel somewhat like Ulysses in the Odyssey tied to the bow of the ship listening to sirens, because this is definitely the end result in having more contact then I anticipate with my socio friend. He’s very nice, charming, gentlemanly, accommodating and thoughtful until I do something that’s a mistake in his book. If I’m not on guard I’ll be walloped emotionally. But I do have to be honest in that if I can control my environment and limit contact he is quite thought provoking and stimulating to be around. As an added bonus it’s allowed me to be able to critically examine myself and to make strides to be able to get down to what I want out of life, what my flaws are, and what I can do to change them. I’ve certainly learned an extensive amount from him. I think it’s probably that I’m at least somewhat twisted in some way by being so attracted to his interactions despite my knowing his complete lack of positive intentions with me.
“At some point in their self-reflection they find that not everything in their head is theirs, and that I am the one who on purpose planted those seeds of doubt.” Haha, I remember my socio saying something when I first met him along the lines of “I can put thoughts in people’s heads.” I suppose he’s correct in a sense. Half of the equation is that I listened to and considered what he had said, and it made me reconsider my own position on things. I have to say I feel like a stronger person because of it. Everything is osmosis to me. People are part of their social environment as well as their internal processes. Ideas are always changing and evolving in and out of the psyche and social environment forever. So sure my socio may have had some control over my thought processes, but I have control of my environment.
“It's a classic manipulative technique, you scare away the child, and then you open your hands wide open for a hug, the child is so startled, it's in the survival mode, It seeks relief. It falls in the trap of temporary relief, and the abuse goes on. The thing is that you guys have the tools to rise, we just make you believe you have no legs.” This is the truest and most closely compared socio thing that you have in common with my socio. Indirect anger, and other scare tactics that have in the past made me think “Are you angry at me?” and then all that nice, gentlemanly friendliness. It certainly makes for some emotional highs, and has in the past made my vulnerable to continued control.
"The interesting thing to me though is that he’ll slip in all these little hints to his actual nature. Do you do that to mess with people? It’s subtle, which increases the crazy making feeling in myself, “Did I actually notice that or was it me being paranoid again?” That being said I knew his nature from the near beginning. But I suppose I was curious about how he interacted with others. There’s a blurry picture that becomes ever clearer and more precise the more I interact with him and get to study his tactics."
DeleteQuestion: HOW do you know your friend is sociopathic?
I ask because this description I quoted from you can almost exactly be applied to me. I've already said that I inherited some "sociopathic" traits in my genes. I put that in quotation because inside - the real me - is not and was never sociopathic (as far as I can recall). I would, however, make jokes which most "neurotypicals" found to be extreme, harsh, thoughtless or sometimes cruel and I would just sit back and say "I'm just joking, who cares they're just words." However, the sociopaths I know (this is all in hindsight) would always give me those looks when I made jokes - those looks that express excitement, joy and relief - relief that somehow they're beginning to see me "come out" or something. I never understood it then but I clearly remember all those looks from multiple people.
Of course to me it's all clear what's happening here. If you're in a sociopathic state of mind, you'll read any such anomalies as signs of a sociopath - occasional hints he's throwing out. The mere fact that sociopaths have trouble believing or accepting that they may very well just be NOT sociopathic who just behave a bit erratic at times IS in itself one example of a disturbance in a sociopathic brain. The default state of mind is to assume people are what they appear to be UNTIL you have AMPLE evidence to the contrary. Sociopaths' default state is the reverse, hence all the confusion.
"However, the sociopaths I know (this is all in hindsight) would always give me those looks when I made jokes - those looks that express excitement, joy and relief - relief that somehow they're beginning to see me "come out" or something. I never understood it then but I clearly remember all those looks from multiple people."
DeleteHere's the irony BTW: I enjoyed the company of those sociopaths (who I didn't know were sociopaths then) more than "neurotypicals" because they actually laughed at those jokes instead of giving me an awkward look or telling me that's not nice. In one way, I was being empathetic to those sociopaths - make jokes which I knew they'd laugh at. My way of being good company. God had I known what they were thinking I'd have learned to zip my mouth.
Good example of a narcissist (and possibly recovering sociopath) is Russell Brand. He's "found God" in his own way and has been on a "jihad" against the corrupt, selfish and immoral establishment in his country and abroad since. I actually went to a "talk" of his in London. I loved him - he's genuine, NOT sociopathic (actually empathetic) but extremely crude, sadistic and hilarious in his jokes. A sociopath will never believe he's actually more of an empath now than not - at best they'll label him a narcissist.
DeleteHello again Jonaid. To answer your question, mostly the common diagnostic criteria straight from his mouth; his claim that his only true diagnosis is/was oppositional defiance disorder, disclosed criminal record, as well as ASPD dx from psychiatrist, general grandiosity, complete disregard for others, indirect threats in discussing guns and other violent acts, irritable baseline, lack of remorse.
DeleteThanks Duality. I guess I'm not like him after all.
DeleteThankyou Anon 2:19 - 2:45.
DeleteDuality:
"Everything is osmosis to me. People are part of their social environment as well as their internal processes. Ideas are always changing and evolving in and out of the psyche and social environment forever. "
I love the organic emphasis here. We are steeped in our environments, skin-bounded bastions against entropy, energy flowing incessantly in and out. Inexorably linked to the physical and social surrounds, we are marvellously - temporarily - singular. And increased awareness helps us create better patterns through which to channel psychological inputs and create productive outputs.
VN, you also remind me of **-*. "I am kind to everyone" he says. After our little discussion, I recalled the train of events after I discovered he was psychopathic. After a few months of shock and processing - and with some prompting from my psychologist (who didn't know what he was really dealing with) - I started to go after what I wanted. I followed my 'heart' because it learns only by experience and NOT through force of will. Having not ever listened to my feelings before, I had no idea how things would play out and I always assumed **-* knew more about them than I did. I'm convinced that was true up to a point; and I used my feelings as triggers for acting. I wanted to see **-* so my heart could learn things wouldn't be as it hoped and I thought he would expect me to come to him (based on his behaviour.) He was baiting me, wanting revenge actually, which I also knew and which he eventually took. Strangely enough, I played an ace just as he played his and the revenge was impotent. It was perhaps another 6 months before he realised I was doing as I wished and he slammed the door.
The universe is a Rorshach inkblot. Opening to more experience means I can collect more datapoints and create better operational models. This is why I seek to understand perspectives other than mine, and why I treat my own understandings flexibly.
@Anon 3:06
It's true that we rarely understand we act as we do. I find life is wonderfully simplified in treating the human being as a social organism seeking to ensure the success of its genepool as best it can. Psychopaths do this in a quite different mode to neurotypicals. At the moment, this model works very well for me and I'm enjoying exploring the implications of it. I especially enjoy your insights.
Thank you north. I enjoy you insights as well. The sciopathic cycle is so very different. I mean they aren't the only ones who cheat on significant others but they seem to find it so necessary to pick the ones they cheat on apart. Normals don't tend to do this. They feel more guilt for betraying someone who trusted them. I think that's what I mean by they need to convince themself they are making the right choice. They convince themselves the person is in fact flawed so they can relieve themselves of any guilt.
DeleteI thought of an analogy for sociopaths vs. empaths (as you typically call them) yesterday. It isn’t a perfect analogy, but it generally fits.
ReplyDeleteLet’s say love/empathy/compassion is like a sense of smell/taste and so sociopaths are unable to taste things.
Because they can’t smell/taste but function in the world they basically think perfumes, spices, recipes, restaurants, cuisines and the general obsessions of foodies to be utter bullshit, self-deception, and utter frippery. Just fucking put that shit in a blender and get it over with, power the body.
Because they cannot smell/taste they think that it doesn’t exist as a real thing with real benefits. Mostly they denigrate smellers as inefficient losers who believe in that fiction called scent.
They want to fit in so they often pretend they can smell/taste and so just mimic the bullshit these smellers seem to do. Sometimes they bullshit so well they can even become food critics, but they still have no idea what they are actually talking about. Often they get tired of pretending and let slip words or actions that reveal hints that they can’t smell at all.
The smellers however have heard of people who can’t smell but they seem to run across it so rarely they can’t seem to recognize a non-smeller unless they flip out in a restaurant screaming about “there’s no such goddamn thing as smell!” They presume so much that others can smell they make up excuses for slips in behaviors. They also don’t understand why someone would/lie/cheat/steal using the pretense that one could smell when they can’t so they presume it isn’t happening.
That’s about as far as I can take it.
As an empath (a.k.a. normalish human a.k.a. sheep in sociopathy parlance) I experience a range of pains and pleasures that you (the sociopath) cannot understand - love/compassion/social bonding. Some think they get parts of it and may be bonded in a way like having a favorite pair of sneakers. Others deny love even exists except as psychological self-deception surrounding mating/family.
...
...
DeleteYou analyze the trajectories and mimic but you don’t feel it so you cannot really get it. Because of presumptions of empathy by us normals and the childhood developed skills of deception/manipulation you can often get your goals of wealth/sex/power more efficiently.
Love/empathy often does interfere in efficient wealth/sex/power collecting, but it adds a breadth and depth to life you cannot experience. Like my smell analogy, you cannot smell the stink of rotting fish (bad empathic related emotions) but you also cannot feel the joys of the best lasagna in the world (good empathic related emotions).
You may prefer your way, but you actually don’t have much of a choice. You have absolutely nothing to compare it to as you have never smelled/tasted (loved) anything in your entire life.
You cannot understand the value of the entire set of empathy related emotions and we cannot understand how you arrange a life without them. You try to understand us so you can fit in and manipulate us. We try to understand you to protect ourselves, to understand parts of us, and sometimes to try and help you. That last one rarely works, though.
Some sociopaths may learn to smell/taste (love) with therapy that they honestly and persistently participate in, others are just wired too hard and/or prefer being sociopaths. Most sociopaths seem to go to therapy to learn to be better manipulators and that’s about it.
Also, we may one day have neurological treatments that improve connections in the brain, which may one day “fix” sociopathy, but that’s sci-fi for now.
anonymous empath.
PS – This thought didn’t fit in elsewhere so I tagged it here. I’m almost never bored, but sociopaths and those with tendencies towards that are often bored and create amazingly complex manipulation schemes often just to evade boredom. I suspect the schemes and boredom are where the brain energy that would have been in empathy was shunted to.
I hope this helps you understand, if that’s what you actually want at all. I think you kind of know 90% of this in your gut, so I don’t think it’ll help you manipulate very much.
I like the analogy.
Delete"I’m almost never bored, but sociopaths and those with tendencies towards that are often bored and create amazingly complex manipulation schemes often just to evade boredom. I suspect the schemes and boredom are where the brain energy that would have been in empathy was shunted to. "
I've been thinking along these lines too. Fits the data.
I think the missing elements also lead to hyperfocus on power. Perhaps this makes sense as a survival mechanism because feelings and empathy furnish us with tools for social navigation and participation in that richer context that facilitates survival of our own gene pool. Without the additional information, it's probably necessary to have an extreme focus on status indicators and on control in order to maintain a feasible place in the tribe. If done well, it's a more or less successful mechanism.
Anon @ 9:46 and 9:48-
DeleteGreat analogies!!!
I find using analogies very useful, both to communicate with sociopaths, and to illustrate sociopath/empath interactions...
~Vegas
Now just consider how life would be if you never needed or wanted a script. In fact that is how it is supposed to be. It's sad actually what you folks go through - constantly needing to "mask" yourselves and go on acting (without all the fame & money). I swear I'm too lazy to put in the work - thank God for that.
ReplyDeleteIf you were really free and independent, you'd neither need nor want to be anyone but your true self. It's sad and dangerous at the same time. Thank God for God - we'd have never existed (our ancestors would have long ago died) without Him.
It is hard to be a sociopath as much as some seem to enjoy the fact they can manipulate and control situations and people, it has an emptiness to it. I believe you fake it till you make it and although emotional chemical responses may be reduced if you consciously take time to think about how you feel (rather than how you should feel) you can improve to a point of having wholesome relationships with peers etc. I guess this is a form of "scripting". If you are aware of these traits about yourself it is ridiculous to think you cannot change. the human brain is not well understood by anyone, no matter what is claimed, but it is highly complex and can adapt and has the ability to learn unknown amounts. If you are literate to being a sociopath and accept and take glory in that label then you are as closed minded as the "idiots" around you. It is far too complex to put any label on and it is limiting to regard yourself as anything fixed, 'Be like water" haha.
ReplyDeleteUnknown, please keep posting. There is an emptiness indeed. I think ME has realized it. And because of it, she can be a role model to other sociopaths.
DeleteShe is discovering red wine and blue cheese. It is nice to see.
Unknown-
DeleteI enjoyed reading your post-thank you.:)
OldAndWise-
I 2nd that.:)
~Vegas
Socioempath-
ReplyDeleteI think you are right about Jonaid, in that he is envious of psychopaths. Here is a portion of one of his comments, from a few posts back:
"I also think it’s a spectrum, and a fallacy that psychopaths don’t feel emotion. We do: just not as persistently or acutely as “neurotypical” people."
Notice he says "We do:"...
~Vegas
You must feel very proud of yourself for being a good psycho huh? "Guys, guys, look what I've uncovered. I've nailed him!"
ReplyDeleteGo back and read the conversation. "A" said that I just quoted him (I mean "her").
Envy is a psychopathic trait (anyone can be envious but psychopaths will always be envious of those better than them).
Jonaid-
ReplyDeleteI am not a psychopath.
Yes, "A" is a "her".
You do not make sense. First you say envy is a psychopathic trait, then you proceed to say anyone can be envious...
Envy is not a trait exclusive to psychopaths.
I am neurotypical.
Neurotypicals are not "better" than psychopaths.
~Vegas
That's why I elaborated in the paranthases. It is a psychopathic trait - pure envy leads to psychopathic behavior because it stunts empathy for the person envied. "Psychopathic" doesn't mean it's exclusive to psychopaths but psychopaths are in a constant state of envy.
ReplyDeleteJonaid-
ReplyDeleteHow do you know "psychopaths are in a constant state of envy"?
Are you a psychopath?
Do you think all psychopaths are the same?
~Vegas
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteNo, it really isn't. It is a defining narcissistic trait that you are projecting onto others, Jonaid.
ReplyDeleteI honestly don't envy anyone. But then again... I've got it real good. :)
I don't think anyone is better than me, and I don't think I am better than anyone else. Smarter than most, perhaps- but not "better". I attribute this to my worldview. We are all stuck in various states of depravity and imperfection. In fact, I can see beauty and potential where most people cannot. Even monsters have positive attributes.
Morally, I *am* at a distinct disadvantage, because I rely upon a prosthetic moral compass, and I don't fear punishment, nor do I experience shame or (transformative) guilt when I violate my "idealized" convictions. Sometimes this is a laudable, useful trait; often it isn't.
I try to view people objectively. Everyone has both strengths and weaknesses. I am particularly good at identifying these in others, and I try to adopt a balanced, realistic view of my own.
In the name of God, The Merciful, The Compassionate.
Delete"And man says: What! when I am dead shall I truly be brought forth alive?
Does not man remember that We created him before, when he was nothing?
And, by your Lord, verily We shall assemble them and the devils, then We shall bring them, crouching, around hell.
Then We shall pluck out from every sect whichever of them was most stubborn in rebellion to the Beneficent.
And surely We are Best Aware of those most worthy to be burned therein."
Quran 19: 66-70
Haha you my friend, you need a good fuck
DeleteMind the tail.
DeleteMind your idiocy.
DeleteI miss him too...but he needs to step up and be a man instead of hiding and playing silly games. I'll know he's free when he owns his past and gets on the road to success with me.
DeleteI prefer to not think I'm better than every one, just that everyone is worse than I am. If I continue to think in better, without fail, I fall and get caught in something "messy"
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThese lyrics came to mind today:
ReplyDelete"FourFiveSeconds"
Rhianna (with Kanye West & Paul McCartney)
[Verse 1 - Rihanna:]
I think I've had enough
I might get a little drunk
I say what's on my mind
I might do a little time
'Cause all of my kindness
Is taken for weakness
[Hook - Rihanna:]
Now I'm Four Five Seconds from wildin'
And we got three more days 'til Friday
I'm just tryna make it back home by Monday mornin'
I swear I wish somebody would tell me
Ooh, that's all I want
[Verse 2 - Kanye West:]
Woke up an optimist
Sun was shinin', I'm positive
Then I heard you was talkin' trash
Hold me back, I'm 'bout to spaz
[Hook - Rihanna and Kanye West:]
Yeah I'm 'bout Four Five Seconds from wildin'
And we got three more days 'til Friday
I'm tryna make it back home by Monday mornin'
I swear I wish somebody would drive me
Ooh, that's all I want
[Bridge - Rihanna:]
And I know that you're up tonight
Thinkin' how could I be so selfish?
But you called 'bout a thousand times
Wondering where I've been
Now I know that you're up tonight
Thinkin' how could I be so reckless?
But I just can't apologize
I hope you can understand
[Verse 3 - Kanye West:]
If I go to jail tonight
Promise you'll pay my bail
See they want to buy my pride
But that just ain't up for sale
[Rihanna and Kanye West:]
See all of my kindness
Is taken for weakness
[Hook - Rihanna and Kanye West:]
Now I'm Four Five Seconds from wildin'
And we got three more days 'til Friday
I'm tryna make it back home by Monday mornin'
I swear I wish somebody would tell me
Ooh, that's all I want
Four Five Seconds from wildin'
And we got three more days 'til Friday
Just tryna make it back home by Monday mornin'
I swear I wish somebody would tell me
'Cause that's all I want
~Vegas
I'd like to commit to this blog. My family has been betrayed by a sociopath last year. She was someone I trusted and adored. She embezzled over a million dollars from our construction company. Since I've read this blog , I understand she has no remorse or guilt for what she has done. Luckily , the police have filed charges and she will be going to jail for a very long time. I guess she won't be able to " out smart" the police with lies this time. They are not buying her bs......
ReplyDeleteBetrayed by Sociopath-
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry to hear, that you and your family were betrayed by a sociopath last year.
I don't think she will be able to "out smart" the police with her lies, either-Jodi Arias couldn't...
~Vegas
For those of you addicted to "energy" and dark company:
ReplyDeleteIn the name of God, The Merciful, The Compassionate.
"In the day when He will gather them together (He will say): O you assembly of the jinn! Many of humankind did you seduce. And their adherents among humankind will say: Our Lord! We enjoyed one another, but now we have arrived at the appointed term which You appointed for us. He will say: Fire is your home. Abide therein, save him whom God wills (to deliver). Lo! thy Lord is Wise, Aware.
Thus We let some of the wrong-doers have power over others because of what they are wont to earn.
O assembly of jinn and men! did there not come to you messengers from among you, relating to you My communications and warning you of the meeting of this day of yours? They shall say: We bear witness against ourselves; and this world's life deceived them, and they shall bear witness against their own souls that they were unbelievers."
Quran 6: 128-130
I continue to be amazed that some people know exactly what is being said here and continue to ignore it. It's one thing to have no clue and therefore just dismiss it as nonsense but quite another to be aware and let your pride and shortsightedness blind you.
Testimony By Wendy Owen, Getting my Ex back !
ReplyDeleteI was hurt and heart broken when a very big problem occurred in my marriage seven months ago, between me and my husband . so terrible that he took the case to court for a divorce. he said that he never wanted to stay with me again,and that he didn't love me anymore.So he packed out of the house and made me and my children passed through severe pain. I tried all my possible means to get him back,after much begging,but all to no avail.and he confirmed it that he has made his decision,and he never wanted to see me again. So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my husband .So i explained every thing to him,so he told me that the only way i can get my husband back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for him too.So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow his advice. Then he gave me the Email address of the spell caster whom he visited. Templeofloveandprosperity@gmail.com. So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address he gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my husband back the next day. What an amazing statement!! I never believed,so he spoke with me, and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my husband who didn't call me for the past 7 months, gave me a call to inform me that he was coming back. So Amazing!! So that was how he came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and he apologized for his mistake,and for the pain he caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster. So, i will advice you out there if you have any problem contact Dr Frank Ojo, i give you 100% guarantee that he will help you.. Email him at: Templeofloveandprosperity@gmail.com ,or visit his Web site to know more about him: http://africatemple.yolasite.com ,and i lives in United Kingdom. Thank you sooooo much!!!