A reader asked what to do with someone on the board of directors of her company (for which she is an executive director) that hired her just because he thought she would be easier to control than the previous executive director. When she resisted his encroachment into her stewardship, he has become increasingly aggressive and nasty.
She asked for advice, and I feel like my advice on these types of issues is a little different than it has been before, so I thought I would share (my current thoughts in brackets):
Ok, a couple of thoughts. First, I think you're right that you shouldn't get down in the muck with him. It's actually probably what he wants from you -- to have you play by his rules. [This reminds of mixed martial arts, actually, with your opponent always wanting you to play the particular style that he is most comfortable with, and vice versa.]
Second, I think that the best thing you could do along with any actual day to day things that you do or interactions you have with him is to make sure that none of what is happening is interfering with the way you conceive of yourself or define yourself in any way. My therapist would call this taking "identity hits." I'll give you a quick example of what I mean. A lawyer friend was telling me about how her colleague at a very adversarial deposition tried to be friendly with the opposing attorney during a break by asking him if he had any kids. The opposing attorney sneered at him, as if to say -- I know what you're doing, playing this game of let's be friend -- "yeah, I have kids, two of them, and then went back to his phone." Somehow, this objectively small interaction made her colleague feel very small, made him doubt his own self-conception of himself as a "nice guy", and someone who people respect sort of as a matter of course. He should have no access to tinker around with those areas of your identity and self-conception, which is your job to keep them safer and more tucked away than you'd keep your passport. [This is not something that sociopaths have to worry about because they don't really associate with their sense of self in this very personal way that non personality-disordered individuals seem to. But having recently gotten more in touch with my sense of identity, I now understand how debilitating these identity hits can be -- or at the very least, they will distract you and impede your performance in a fight.]
Third, you need to be an immovable force to survive and thrive in this type of caustic situation. [Again, sociopaths naturally do this third thing because they have a big obsessive streak and they are capable of hyperfocus, or in this case a single-minded focus on getting one over on other people. I think this is hugely advantageous for reasons I explain later. The rest of the advice is to non-sociopathic people who might not naturally come by this single-minded focus, particularly not for something as potentially boring and fungible as their job.] A lot of religious people get this immovable force assurance from the sense that they are doing God's will. I think you're religious? Maybe you could contemplate or pray what it is that God would have you do in your particular situations, and then act with the confidence that what you are doing is approved of by God. Addicts in 12 step programs submit to their higher power (often as relayed through their sponsor). But their program requires them to make that choice and accept the consequences willingly and happily, the same way that martyrs are happy to die for their cause. Single-minded focus is a win-win approach because you have (1) the confidence and self-assurance that is usually required of high performance and (2) the spiritual or emotional robustness to weather small setbacks without counterproductive self-doubt. [Of course the risk is that your single-minded focus results in a Gallipoli, so be sure to pick your battles wisely before going all in, but do prepared to commit to all in if you get even a hint of your opponent being willing to do so.] There are other ways you can get to being an unmovable force (an incredible sense of personal integrity is probably the other major one or an overwhelming passion). You need to get to the point where you feel like you're not even choosing these choices so much as you are being swept up in something greater than yourself, otherwise you'll probably get cold feet at some point. [It's like they say about athletes, you have to get into the flow where you're not even thinking about your next move, it's just a natural extension of who you are.] The truth is that the actual decisions to be made are so complicated that you can't rationalize to the right answer, likely, and definitely not under time and stress conditions, and if you try you're just going to spend a ton of emotional energy in expecting things of yourself that you have no right to expect [and no adequate skillset to back up].
She asked for advice, and I feel like my advice on these types of issues is a little different than it has been before, so I thought I would share (my current thoughts in brackets):
Ok, a couple of thoughts. First, I think you're right that you shouldn't get down in the muck with him. It's actually probably what he wants from you -- to have you play by his rules. [This reminds of mixed martial arts, actually, with your opponent always wanting you to play the particular style that he is most comfortable with, and vice versa.]
Second, I think that the best thing you could do along with any actual day to day things that you do or interactions you have with him is to make sure that none of what is happening is interfering with the way you conceive of yourself or define yourself in any way. My therapist would call this taking "identity hits." I'll give you a quick example of what I mean. A lawyer friend was telling me about how her colleague at a very adversarial deposition tried to be friendly with the opposing attorney during a break by asking him if he had any kids. The opposing attorney sneered at him, as if to say -- I know what you're doing, playing this game of let's be friend -- "yeah, I have kids, two of them, and then went back to his phone." Somehow, this objectively small interaction made her colleague feel very small, made him doubt his own self-conception of himself as a "nice guy", and someone who people respect sort of as a matter of course. He should have no access to tinker around with those areas of your identity and self-conception, which is your job to keep them safer and more tucked away than you'd keep your passport. [This is not something that sociopaths have to worry about because they don't really associate with their sense of self in this very personal way that non personality-disordered individuals seem to. But having recently gotten more in touch with my sense of identity, I now understand how debilitating these identity hits can be -- or at the very least, they will distract you and impede your performance in a fight.]
Third, you need to be an immovable force to survive and thrive in this type of caustic situation. [Again, sociopaths naturally do this third thing because they have a big obsessive streak and they are capable of hyperfocus, or in this case a single-minded focus on getting one over on other people. I think this is hugely advantageous for reasons I explain later. The rest of the advice is to non-sociopathic people who might not naturally come by this single-minded focus, particularly not for something as potentially boring and fungible as their job.] A lot of religious people get this immovable force assurance from the sense that they are doing God's will. I think you're religious? Maybe you could contemplate or pray what it is that God would have you do in your particular situations, and then act with the confidence that what you are doing is approved of by God. Addicts in 12 step programs submit to their higher power (often as relayed through their sponsor). But their program requires them to make that choice and accept the consequences willingly and happily, the same way that martyrs are happy to die for their cause. Single-minded focus is a win-win approach because you have (1) the confidence and self-assurance that is usually required of high performance and (2) the spiritual or emotional robustness to weather small setbacks without counterproductive self-doubt. [Of course the risk is that your single-minded focus results in a Gallipoli, so be sure to pick your battles wisely before going all in, but do prepared to commit to all in if you get even a hint of your opponent being willing to do so.] There are other ways you can get to being an unmovable force (an incredible sense of personal integrity is probably the other major one or an overwhelming passion). You need to get to the point where you feel like you're not even choosing these choices so much as you are being swept up in something greater than yourself, otherwise you'll probably get cold feet at some point. [It's like they say about athletes, you have to get into the flow where you're not even thinking about your next move, it's just a natural extension of who you are.] The truth is that the actual decisions to be made are so complicated that you can't rationalize to the right answer, likely, and definitely not under time and stress conditions, and if you try you're just going to spend a ton of emotional energy in expecting things of yourself that you have no right to expect [and no adequate skillset to back up].
Lots of interesting stuff, M.E.
ReplyDeleteOn 'taking identity hits': you explain this very well. In fact it was reading your article on venal abuse that illuminated why I was so diminished in my marriage.
I have considered why it is that we are generally so vulnerable to this type of abuse. At an experiential level, neurotypicals take a lot of cues from the social environment to gauge how we are perceived: we're very sensitive to the mirrors we're presented. I've been exploring an idea that our astonishing brains have encoded solutions to many problems; social problems are largely addressed through emotional patterns in the mammalian brain (my two puppies behaved in so many ways like my two little sons...) These mirrors are evidence of our level of social acceptance (how well we have normalised) and of our status or position in the social pecking order.
This makes sense of our surprising sensitivity to 'identity hits.' When you receive one, your mind examines it, considers the contributing factors, the context and particular motivations. In short, you conduct a kind of risk assessment: am I really at risk of being perceived that way and if so does it matter? Does this person matter? Am I really operating in a way that warrants that assessment? Usually we find a way of rationalising our own behaviour; sometimes we find a trigger for change (I actually did this week.)
It is a huge investment of energy to combat an unjustified negative reflection. Nevertheless, the underlying mechanism is a successful one and assists us maintain and enhance our place in the tribe.
What I experienced in my marriage was persistent and deliberate identity hits that over time wore me out. The energy cost of combating those hits was too high and I generally tried to avoid any situation in which he might attack me. Of course, I didn't have this framework of understanding at the time: I only knew I didn't like talking to my husband, that I couldn't change the situation and that I was deeply miserable. I eventually, through that buildup of chaotic energy, found a way to change my situation: it wasn't the wisest way but it was strangely all I could see at the time.
*verbal abuse
DeleteI'm also fascinated by your reference to flow. Flow is something I have a history of experiencing: I'm good at melding with an activity with the optimal degrees of arousal and focus. I've found flow while making pizzas in my first job, driving fast and well, playing rugby, dancing and creating models at work or in study.
ReplyDeleteCzikzentmahalyi popularised the term and I wonder did he not borrow from Chinese Daoist and Zen conceptions of flow. Lean and Agile techniques currently popular in business also use the term flow; referring to removing structural blockages to improve process speed (eg time to market in product development) and value achieved.
Common to these ideas of flow is harnessing the natural energy or momentum in a situation and shaping it. That way, with minimal effort, one can direct the full force of the river. It's more about awareness, responsiveness and vision than standing in opposition.
Socioempath and I have been discussing the importance of knowing what you want. I'm learning the art of patience - **-* excelled at it ( in situations he understood.) Sun Tzu in the Art of War also emphasises patient, considered measures taken in full awareness of self and foe; measures taken at the appropriate juncture. It's the art of balancing all these considerations - acting at the appropriate juncture, understanding the environment (opportunities, threats, context) fully and knowing when and how to shape, understanding that cognitions are internal signals to be integrated and synthesised in a similar fashion to external signals.
'Be like water, my friend. Sometimes water flows, sometimes it crashes.' ~Bruce Lee
Understanding "personality hits" has been extremely freeing to me. As a non socio I've always tried to maintain a fluidity about myself-even past personality hits. And I could do it. But they did take their collective toll. Now I know they were there to stop me in my tracks. They were intentional . It still is a bit mind boggling to me-the intentional hits people throw at others. Sociopaths are so rigid that they can't overlook them. I am on the other hand so flexible that I absorb them. I wonder what is the most advantages way to deal with them?
DeleteThat's interesting - can you explain a bit more about your fluidity?
DeleteI think the best thing is to set boundaries. This might mean significant change to the dynamics of the relationship. I remember the first time it dawned on me to say 'I don't accept that' - he was stunned. And it wasn't long after that I left him because his control over me evaporated.
My psychologist tells me that when you change you attract a different sort of person into your life.
I think this probably works even with less frequent contacts. People generally like to push their luck; they play to the whistle and not the rulebook so the trick is to be blowing the whistle earlier by setting healthy boundaries. There really aren't many people bold enough to take on someone with good boundaries because the ROI is very, very low.
It all comes back to efficient allocation of resources for return on investment.
I don't think "absorbing" the "hits" is a viable long-term strategy - if absorbing means what I think it means, they'll slowly "bottle up" and make you bitter because you keep them in, and over time, little by little, they add up. For short-term, however, it could prove useful, but I think you'll need to find a way to "release" them in some way; there's only so much you can take in.
DeleteWhat I do, automatically and unconsciously, is just dismiss any "hits", they just "pass through"; I do not "absorb" them - for me, they literally mean nothing. It's just an attack on your ego, not "you" per se; now if you have attached your "identity" to your ego, it follows that you will take those attacks personally.
I suggest that you recognize them for what they are - people have a certain perception of you, and they attack that perception, not "you as you".
If you are able to find a way to separate yourself from your ego, then those attacks on your ego should have no effect on you, or at least become substantially weaker and tolerable.
North boundaries are a new thing for me. I have always pushed my luck-and have been pretty lucky so far. I guess I believed a part of that included not expecting a ton out of others. I thought I could rise above things when I needed to but I really didn't understand others motives. And I excused a ton of bad behavior from myself and others. I agree it is about boundaries. I guess what I mean is there is always going to be people dealing out personality hits-and I don't always want to fight those people. But even letting it pass thru me leaves a trace. Does that make sense?
DeleteAnd it's very hard to explain my fluidity. Its something I don't want to lose. An ability to adapt . To go with the flow. You know when in Rome ... I like feeling free. Boundaries always scared me to death. But I really didn't know how necessary they are. The sociopath I knew was one of the most rigid people I've ever known. I'm terrified of ever being like that.
DeleteThat makes sense :) I'm also very adaptable and completely trust my ability to wing it in any situation.
DeleteBy boundaries - and it's new to me to - I'm referring more to protecting yourself. In the past, I didn't quite know what I wanted from personal relationships; it's a matter of taking responsibility for that. You have choices! You don't have to accept that treatment.
I learned what I wanted and stopped looking to others to feel safe. We're all adults and I think healthy adults can meet their own needs; I probably now take this idea further than most.
From here there is less floating and more genuine flow because your environmental awareness actually improves in a big way. You have standards, a better framework for assessing environmental inputs as desirable and useful or not desirable / harmful.
So, yes, people will always do it but they will do it less when you put out the vibe of knowing what it is you will and won't accept. That stuff is read subconsciously - and psychopaths deliberately test too.
As an aside, I feel less inclined to the fight these days and not through weariness of it. I have quite a different feeling about it. There's a woman at work drove me nuts, tries to dominate and manipulate people but she's blundering about it. These days, rather than either trying to dominate her - which was my old pattern - I let her be. I don't engage in that game in any way. I simply be me. And I find that people respond to me in my enthusiasm, boldness and vision. I have far greater influence without with attempting to grasp power because I'm all about strengthening my tribe. People do recognise and respond to that. All of this stuff is blossoming within me now and it stuns me how effective it is to let myself be me and to fully trust myself.
Haha, yes, **-* is very rigid! It's so surprising in a way because they also claim fluidity and adaptability. Actually, M.E.'s article here also demonstrates this: she's speaking of being an immovable force where I see flow as being more like water and not an opposition to the environment. Interesting indeed.
North that is interesting. I noticed that Also-the immovable force. I guess you can't easily stop a river. It is a pretty immovable force although I equate flow more like being part of the river. Not sure if that makes sense. ;-) and I certainly like floating and with the current. Its always worked for me. I have also become a lot less quick to fight. I don't miss that. Somehow discovering that there are actually dangerous things out there has made me much more chill. I like the part though that sometimes water crashes. i believe I went right over the waterfall.
DeleteI hate those shitty quotes "be like water..never take form" type. They dont give precise intructions
DeleteHey Anon 2:51,
DeleteI had some more thoughts on this - being part of the river is where many benefits of human collaboration are found... Those areas of potential that we perceive.
I'm interested in your being chill in understanding there are dangerous things out there - there's a little thrill of recognition in me when I read that but I can't put my finger on it. Can you explain?
Ta
North were you able to see my response ? I think the blog ate it. :-)
DeleteThe blog does that... Sometimes splitting it up helps.
DeleteOK I'm going to try this again. I never really understood the phrase the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. That seemed so over simplified. I get it a lot more now. Its all the same negative energy. Its something very distinct that I can identify now. Its what drives the people who can never be satisfied. I will never try to satisfy them again. Fear seems to thrive on ignorance. I feel I can send it running easier now. Like I can control it more not the other way around.
Delete"I will never try to satisfy them again."
DeleteWOW! That made me smile, I'm really happy for you. It's a great position to be in because now you have the energy to invest in your own care and interests (that's how it worked for me at least and it made all the difference.)
Re your last 2 sentences: Beautiful to read.
North I had to play to the whistle as you say:-) all those times I was like what the hell?! It translates to so many aspects of life and society that has always puzzled me. Thank you for your energy!
DeleteNorth-
ReplyDeleteHas **-* been diagnosed as a psychopath/sociopath?
~Vegas
Hey Vegas,
DeleteI would think so but I don't know. He told me he had visited and had discussions with his cousin in France who was a psychologist and that he was very interested in psychology, without revealing what his particular interests were.
I was fascinated when I first thought he might be sociopathic and after a few weeks I couldn't resist asking him about it. He was exploring it a bit with me in a strange, enticing way. Told me he didn't want to take a test so I wrote a nice objective email explaining why I thought he was a sociopath.
Me: did you read my email?
**-*: yes, I loved it!
I wish i'd kept that email, lol.
He also said he was happy for me to call him that as long as I didn't tell others.
This was our second-last conversation, though, so I don't know with certainty.
Hey North-
DeleteThanks for the response.:)
~Vegas
And speaking of fascination, I read this last night to my sons (from The Jungle Book):
ReplyDeleteThe lines of the monkeys swayed forward helplessly, and Baloo and Bagheera took one stiff step forward with them.
"Nearer!" hissed Kaa, and they all moved again.
Mowgli laid his hands on Baloo and Bagheera to get them away, and the two great beasts started as though they had been waked from a dream.
"Keep thy hand on my shoulder," Bagheera whispered. "Keep it there, or I must go back—must go back to Kaa. Aah!"
"It is only old Kaa making circles on the dust," said Mowgli. "Let us go." And the three slipped off through a gap in the walls to the jungle.
"Whoof!" said Baloo, when he stood under the still trees again. "Never more will I make an ally of Kaa," and he shook himself all over.
"He knows more than we," said Bagheera, trembling. "In a little time, had I stayed, I should have walked down his throat."
"Many will walk by that road before the moon rises again," said Baloo. "He will have good hunting—after his own fashion."
"But what was the meaning of it all?" said Mowgli, who did not know anything of a python's powers of fascination. "I saw no more than a big snake making foolish circles till the dark came.
I have the feeling, even as of exploring my book idea with Socioempath and Anon(s) yesterday, of escaping that fascination.
Amazing. I really am amazed at how with each exploration of my own desires the more aware I become, the more clearly I see - and not merely as regards **-*. Granted, yesterday was another big day with more expansion and flourishing at work - I was anointed with a new role based on my boldness in challenging the CEO and on my driving a positive narrative to revive our local branch. But all of this stems from setting myself free.
It's simply incredible how deep and wide and endlessly fulfilling life can be.
That is lovely north. We are meant to be more than pretty little pieces of cake or flowers to admire. The world is much bigger than that and we are meant to be part of it.
DeleteYes indeed, I like that. Thanks :)
DeleteIn reference to the thread link you posted:
ReplyDeleteThat was painful to read.
Have you noticed how it's just one question about "how to read someone or some situation and respond accordingly" after another here. This is the pool of confusion psychopaths are cursed to swim in. Once you loose your heart, all you can do is "study" people and buy more & more masks. As soon as a situation arises that you haven't witnessed yet, you'll do something ridiculously stupid out of fear & confusion, then lie and cover up your own mistakes (thereby not learn anything real), and then proceed on like a crackpot without realizing that you'll still heading down a road which will leave ultimately destroy the rest of your heart & soul.
ReplyDeleteThese questions will never end because there's an infinite amount of different scenarios which people can and do find themselves in. Everyone chips in with their guesses which they cloak in confident robes. Think deeply if you are sincere. How on Earth could our ancestors have made it this far if they were confused like psychopaths are about how to "read people."
Oh no, I have absolutely no problem reading people. I have a different mindset, I was born this way, and frankly, I'm more proud to be the way I am than I would ever be of being "normal." Not that there's anything wrong with it, the way I see it, we're all different, sitting all along the various different scales people measure personalities with: empathy, narcissism, altruism, ego... The thing is, I find that I operate better with a psychopathic mindset. I'm not sure what happened, but at some point when I grew older, I became more empathetic, I felt things more, and all sorts of things. But with it came depression and anxiety, terrible symptoms of an overactive, overly analytical mindset. But having experienced both worlds, I know exactly how I want to do things, and it works just fine for me. I'm not without my share of mistakes, but I do what I do according to my rule set that I constantly adjust the more I learn about people and the society I live in so I can better adapt.
DeleteAnd when it comes to questions of morality, religion, philosophy, I find it all irrelevant to me. I act in the best way that I can, I am not afraid of the dark things that lurk in this deadly universe we reside in, and best of all, I don't need to worry about if I'm being a good person or not, all thanks to the fact that I am not (always. Okay, I can get pretty angry sometimes, but only sometimes!) a slave to self-referential thought processes.
So no I'm not really worried about my heart and soul. If such things are real, all I can know is that I always try to act in a beneficial, positive manner, and try to learn from my mistakes. It's not about being good or bad or whatever, I just want to get good at handling this thing called real life that I'm always having to deal with. Not my fault others like myself can't see things the way I do.
"It's not about being good or bad or whatever, I just want to get good at handling this thing called real life that I'm always having to deal with. Not my fault others like myself can't see things the way I do."
DeleteThis! Live naturally!
I enjoyed your post.
Wow he's such a nice psycho who just wants to be himself: someone who cheats for a living. You keep lying and deceiving people because you ARE afraid of the "dark things that lurk in this deadly universe." What nonsense "deadly universe." What has the Universe done to you that it's so deadly? Everything is just fine out there - it's inside YOU where dark things are lurking. Lol you're not even a spec in the time & space that makes up the Universe and look at how you speak. You should make religion relevant otherwise you'll remain a delusional & spineless crackpot.
DeleteYou see I can be anonymous too but somehow I can tell you'll know it's me. It works both ways.
"I was born this way" doesn't mean it's something good, excusable or something to be proud of. Pride ought to be for something you earn & deserve - not what you were "born with."
DeleteLOL he's so proud he has to hide himself.
You're hilarious. I posted two other times: in response to a post by ESTP, and a while back talking about how my condition should be defined by how I perceive things, not by my behavior. Believe me, the last thing I do is impersonate other people, but you're kind of adorable - right before I posted, I thought to myself, why poke the bear? Well, maybe I'll try approaching it with rationality, perhaps we could have an interesting discussion, but here you are being bitter and a bit too aggressive.
DeleteIt's inside me where dark things are lurking? I'll admit happily that I look at everything based on its merits equally. Does that make me a con artist or something like that? Well, it's not like I NEED to, and there are better ways of going about my life.
It doesn't matter how big or small I am in the grand scheme of things, what I have is me, right here, right now. What does it matter how I see things, when I try to do /good?/ Well, except for when there's obviously no hope at rational communication. Then I should just try to have some fun.
But again, no, I'm not some other regular around here treating your responses with an appropriate, singular grain of salt. It's actually kind of even better, because back when I posted before, I think you even tried to be nice to me in your attempts to persuade me to... what exactly is it you're fighting for, exactly?
I'll make religion relevant if I want to. Everywhere I look, though, all I ever see is its drawbacks, plain as day. I think I'm good right now.
Everything's fine out here? What world do you even live in? The way I see it, it's both beautiful and destructive, a place where our very existence hinges upon a very thin margin of circumstances and rules. Like you said, I'm just a spec. As a species, as a planet - everything being the way it is, we are very lucky to be here, and that in itself is beauty in the rules that both created and maintains our existence as we know it. And to my knowledge unless proven otherwise, I only have one life, and all it takes is one event bad enough that will end it. I'm not saying that it's only deadly, that it isn't nice, but yes, it is deadly as well.
The closest I come to religion is Buddhism and that's only because my beliefs somewhat overlap with theirs, on some level. So, either way, I'm good. If you want to actually just talk, go ahead and reply, otherwise you're not doing your image any favors, and that's not me attacking you, that's me stating a fact in an attempt to help you through honesty.
Have you noticed how you alienate everyone, Joanie?
DeleteCan you tell who this is? :)
Someone who's ashamed to be himself so he conjures up fake identities.
DeleteSomeone who has no spine and a dark heart. Someone who is so easy to fool but thinks he is above everyone else. Someone who has no shame or ethics and no control over his body. Someone who literally sells himself for sex. Someone who let's his testicles dictate him and not versa.
DeleteSomeone who doesn't have to be a low life but chooses to be. Must I say more?
Speaking about strategizing, my friend is a senior exec. He's realised one of his staff members is sociopathic. It's been so interesting to watch his reaction to this. He's a very bright guy and a strong leader. Like me, he was at once confused as to how he could have been deceived and ready to rise to the challenge of outwitting this guy. My friend, of course, has the natural advantage of being in the more powerful position but he is concerned for his team as well so it is a matter of patience and awareness for him.
ReplyDeleteHe feels it makes so much sense of the energy drain and conflict in his team despite his leadership efforts.
It's been wonderful talking with him about the sorts of things we discuss here: what is the boundary between strategy and manipulation, for example, as well as various tools and techniques my friend might use.
Per Socioempath's advice, I've discussed with my friend that he should not rush his strategy but move carefully and with resolve. I was able to share some tactics that worked well for me with the knife-wielding sociopath at my work.
And like an Anon, we have been very interested in the use of language, especially as a tool: this guy uses complicated, obfuscating writing and speech - just as Knife Guy did. And as I did with Knife Guy, my friend doesn't allow himself to be drawn into endless points of argument; rather he holds firm to his direction and communicates his expectation of support.
There's much to learn for all. And learning is fulfilling; our brains are designed to adapt and take pleasure in it.
Hey North;
DeleteSomething just occured to me - since he is a psychopath, he is attracted to weaknesses. It could be argued that his impulse to exploit weaknesses is his weakness.
Let me explain: you and your friend could present a (not too obvious and easy, so it seems "real" and "spontaneous") weakness, which would compel him to act and try to exploit that weakness.
When he does, evidence can be gathered and, when the time is right, he can be ambushed with overwhelming force.
However, just remember - when he realizes that he has nothing to lose, he will fight for his "survival" that much harder.
Thanks Socioempath - just got off the phone to my friend and advised him to use a data gathering strategy ;)
DeleteHe's in a very interesting situation today, will be interesting to see how it unfolds! I'll mention your weakness idea as another tool for his kit.
I advised my friend a few weeks ago to discover what is motivating the guy and he has made some progress on that front. Perhaps that will help my friend prepare for the 'survival' fight which will surely come soon.
The chess match is heightening in pitch :)
Came here to say that this blog is a joke full of self-diagnosed socio-retards and depressed losers.
ReplyDeleteWell aren't you just a ray of sunshine!
DeleteIt also has people who were used by "players", who proceed to label the player a "sociopath", while living on this site, and proceeding to start a blog and write a book.
DeleteWell thanks for stopping by!
DeleteAttention from trolls!! I must be doing something right.
DeleteXx
Now that it's been highlighted, technically my "wicked agenda" can be seen as exactly that; decriminalizing and abolishing all criminal justice systems (or greatly overhauling them at least, if society would prefer that. Either way I would want the same or similar outcome from either) that could quite possibly unleash a seemingly apocalyptic crime wave upon this world. A lack of warfare and terrorism that I would hope to end by establishing superior diplomacy so those things would not happen in the first place etc. would mean less exchange of resources (I'm thinking of you, America) that is beneficial (as I understand, warfare/terrorism acts as a vaccum to quickly suck up power and resources, so it may be very necessary (?). Are there not better ways of doing this without perpetuating injustice? I do recognize how war/terrorism can be/is necessary; After all we don't live in a world of good and evil, just opposing forces fightong for power and resources). So, yes, viewed from the right angle my schemes and plots will destroy society as we know it to be as of now. As anyone should really know, I'm no "true evil", just another force within this world fighting to acquire power and resources just like everyone else.
ReplyDeleteAre my plots so truly wicked though? I think after decriminalizing all crime and abolishing the criminal justice systems, there might be a rise in violation of the rights of the people for a time but it would subside eventually; the money taken away from being wasted on the broken system would be better allocated to various other important parts of government and helpful services for the people, such ad revitalizing our education systems so that our children have better educations, and more likely to have the knowledge base they need for successful careers that don't involve crime as well as providing them greater intelligence so they can make better decisions for actions that are prosocial rather then antisocial.
Ending or greatly reducing the need for warfare and terrorism? I could see how this might be perceived as wicked as it is taking away a very important means of acquiring power and resources, but with better diplomacy and allocation of resources and power balance these things very well could not ever be needed. Imagine that, a more peaceful world.
It will take a lot more people then me to put these "wicked" plots into action, so that is why I'm doing my best to keep a clear vision of what exactly it is that I want done and the power and thus leadership role I'll need to acquire to make these things happen. Maybe they won't happen in my lifetime but I would hope that I would leave behind a legacy that carries on in the hearts of others that will make my dreams come true.
ESTP Sociopath
Hi ESTP S,
DeleteIt's Friday afternoon after a massive week so my brain is not at the peak of its powers. Nevertheless, I wanted to say a couple of things.
This is visionary ideation which is not my forte; I'm better at solving problems. So I don't have a comprehensive response, only some considerations.
Firstly, I like your conceptions of competing forces. The competition occurs at a biological level; complex, organic, social learning machines that we are.
Also at an organic level is that protective/competitive mechanism that insights we fight for 'justice' or fair treatment. It's the impulse we get to anger when someone cuts us off in traffic or when a merchant supplies us faulty goods or when our little brother was served more ice cream when we were kids. It's also the foundation (in my early hypothesis) for the emergence of the justice system. The system is an efficiency for victims of unfair treatment and mitigates risks associated with retaliatory action: those of perpetuating unfairness and personal dangers for the original perpetrator and the retaliator. The system standardises "punishments" to satisfy our biological drives for recompense.
I think for your model to work - and in the current evolutionary condition of our brains - it would need to satisfy this drive in a workable fashion. Diplomacy is indeed useful, especially as a preventive measure; but I think until we evolve further, you might need to account for what happens post-perceived unfairness.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I enjoy reading your bold optimism and vision.
You're welcome North, I always appreciate your feedback, you alwayd seem to give me something more to ruminate over so I can acquire a better model of perception of reality, or so I would like to think. I optimistically like to think there's something of value to be found in everyone's opinion; if we have something to voice it is because we are always trying to send a message that suits our best interests (or so I typically assume), and that speaks greatly of people's motivations and weaknesses to me, what they may say and do to get by in life with their own nature in mind. It's 100% applicable even to me or any psychopath.
DeleteI'd like to reply more in depth, but I'm short on time ATM. Appointments and working at the youth shelter are priorities today.
ESTP Sociopath
Thanks, that's a useful insight in itself and extends some of my own more loosely formed ideas.
DeleteEnjoy your day!
I love M.E.'s tweet:
ReplyDelete"We see the world as we are, and NOT as it actually is."
So true...
~Vegas
A more detailed account of the first psychopath. Note here that Eve is equally guilty as Adam for disobeying God. Another key distinction between this original narrative and the distorted versions is that the "sin" was not blown out of proportion.
ReplyDeleteIn the name of God, The Merciful, The Compassionate.
"And certainly We created you, then We fashioned you, then We said to the angels: Prostrate to Adam. So they did prostrate except Iblis; he was not of those who prostrated.
(God) said: What hindered you so that you did not prostrate when I commanded you? He said: I am better than he: You created me of fire, while him You did create of dust.
(God) said: Then go down hence! It is not for you to show pride here, so go forth! Lo! you are of those degraded.
He said: Reprieve me till the day when they are raised (from the dead).
(God) said: Lo! you are of those reprieved.
He said: Now, because You have sent me astray, verily I shall lurk in ambush for them on Your Right Path.
Then I will certainly come to them from before them and from behind them, and from their right-hand side and from their left-hand side; and You shall not find most of them thankful.
(God) said: Go forth from hence, degraded, banished. As for such of them as follow you, surely I will fill hell with all of you.
And (We said): O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the garden; so eat from where you desire, but do not go near this tree, for then you will be of the unjust.
Then Satan whispered to them that he might manifest unto them that which was hidden from them of their shame, and he said: Your Lord forbade you from this tree only lest you should become angels or become of the immortals.
And he swore to them both: Most surely I am a sincere adviser to you.
Thus did he lead them on with guile. And when they tasted of the tree their shame was manifest to them and they began to hide (by heaping) on themselves some of the leaves of the Garden. And their Lord called them, (saying): Did I not forbid you from that tree and tell you: Lo! Satan is an open enemy to you?
They said: Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If You forgive us not and have not mercy on us, surely we are of the lost!
(God) said: Go down (from hence), one of you a foe unto the other. There will be for you on earth a habitation and provision for a while.
(God) said: Therein shall you live, and therein shall you die, and from it shall you be raised.
O Children of Adam! We have revealed unto you raiment to conceal your shame, and splendid vesture, but the raiment of restraint from evil, that is best. This is of the revelations of God, that they may remember.
O Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you as he caused your parents to go forth from the Garden and tore off from them their robe (of innocence) that he might manifest their shame to them. Lo! he sees you, he and his tribe, from where you see him not. Lo! We have made the devils protecting friends for those who believe not."
QUR'AN 7: 11-27
Joanie-
DeleteAdam and Eve WERE NOT PSYCHOPATHS.
Muhammad might have been, though...
~Vegas
No they weren't. The first psychopath I was referring to is Satan.
DeleteMuhammad (peace be upon him) was the exact opposite of a psychopath. No psychopath in history was able to accomplish what this man did. People love him so much that you know how easy it is to get them riled up (wrongly but still) just because cartoons are drawn. No psycho has people who love and respect him so much 1400 years after his death. This man's people - the Arabs - conquered most of the ancient civilizations of the world within 30 years after his death and to this day they follow the religion he preached. No one in history - not Alexander, not the Mongols, and certainly not the Romans or the Greeks - have anyone that comes close. Besides, name me a psychopath who - at the height of their power - slept on the floor and died without a penny to his name (despite being the absolute ruler of Arabia).
The charge that Muhammad was or could be a psychopath is itself a psychopathic one (deliberately meant to deceive) or uttered by some lost & ignorant soul.
Socios see the world as it "really is", the way empath people refuse to see. They see a place run by power and money, just like in medieval times. They dont believe in democracy; not because it does not work but because it does not exist. They get annoyed in a different way by tv-commersials than empaths, to them this stuff is like having another psychopath "playing them", every evening, between the programs they like to see. Some of them daydream about meeting the folks responsible for all this "smooth tv-talk" and having..a little conversation with them.
ReplyDeleteIts not that intelligent empaths dont know the world is ruled by power, they do, but they are reluctant to SEE this in their everyday life..
DeleteActually sociopaths see everything - EVERY AD on TV - as manipulation and "playing them." Their default mode is: "everyone is manipulative, deceptive, unduly selfish, base until proven otherwise." A normal, healthy mind is the exact opposite. Provided they have some intelligence and experience in the world, they are well aware that a lot of what they see & hear (depends a lot on time & location) is indeed "playing them" and not legit. They just don't assume right off the bat that everything and everyone is a fake until proven otherwise.
DeleteIt's like what the previous poster said. Our experience of the world is a Yin and Yang - there is risk and loss but there's also security and reward. If you cheat the system you'll pay one day, sooner or later.
Socios have a tendency to a particular cognitive model. It's no more complete than the neurotypical's.
DeleteThe neurotypical's brain generally handles social problems subconsciously, through emotion and when required, cognitively.
What you see as absolutes in terms of power is a hyperfocus on certain elements of sociality.
This goes a little to what Jonaid is saying and explains why.
Can you see we are part of the fabric in which you weave your own colours, Anon?
We can add richness to one another's perspectives. No one model is complete and this is a most incredible liberation to understand. Let go of static definition.
"We can add richness to one another's perspectives. No one model is complete and this is a most incredible liberation to understand. Let go of static definition."
DeleteThis is an example of cloaking outright BS meant to confuse and mislead in a "tolerant" and "peaceful" robe. Funny now there's only one "model" when it comes to every pragmatic system in the world. There aren't multiple models for how mathematics should work. There are no multiple models for the rules of language. There are no multiple models for logic. It is only with morality do some try to develop different models - misleading, erroneous, destructive models - and those who conjure them up know perfectly well how best to dress them up to sell them.
Xx
DeleteOh Ye of little vision.
"There are no multiple models for the rules of language."
DeleteMany languages have different syntax compared to English, look at classical Latin and the way verbs get placed at the end of the sentence.
"There are no multiple models for logic."
Categorical and truth-functional are two different models of logic.
I'd say next time try harder, but I know you won't. It's just the same self-righteous garbage over and over.
Yes what I said went right thru your head. The primary rules and function of language - linguistics - are identical in every language ever known in history. Anyone who speaks English can easily learn any other language and communicate with the native speakers - yes they may have to learn the different syntax and where prepositions, verbs, nouns etc are placed in the sentence BUT the crux of everything is identical.
DeleteLogic is a universal and innately understood method of understanding the world. How we divide and categorize it for purpose of formal study CAN differ among different schools and civilizations but the rules remain the same - there aren't multiple forms of logic.
Mathematics - the language of the Universe and Science - is exactly the same everywhere and at all times, even thru infinity.
You're right, next time I'll assume I'm communicating to retards and dumb everything down more.
By extension of your argument:
DeleteThere is absolutely no difference in what we believe simply because our brains have the capacity to create beliefs.
Curiosity is peaceful, rejuvenating, rewarding. What benefit is there in all your silly fighting? Your argumentum ad hominem brings no outcome other than to show us who you are.
Have peace.
"There is absolutely no difference in what we believe simply because our brains have the capacity to create beliefs."
DeleteI'm not sure what this means. Care to elaborate?
Jonaid, I would like to but we don't have a history of engaging in a productive way.
DeleteIt is an interesting question and goes to unravelling all sets of assumptions we hold in our philosophies. For the moment, I would like to leave it at that springboard and thank you for contributing to some interesting journeys of thought.
Okie dokie then. You're welcome.
Delete"Provided they have some intelligence and experience in the world, they are well aware that a lot of what they see & hear (depends a lot on time & location) is indeed "playing them" and not legit. They just don't assume right off the bat that everything and everyone is a fake until proven otherwise."
ReplyDeleteWell said, Jonaid-I completely agree.:)
~Vegas
"They just don't assume right off the bat that everything and everyone is a fake until proven otherwise."
ReplyDeleteThis is where the opportunity is, to either take advantage of someone, or be taken advantage of...
~Vegas
When someone has established "Image" and "Trust", the "Window of Opportunity", can be quite vast.
ReplyDeleteIt can also be referred to as "Giving the Benefit of the Doubt", which is a "benefit" that is earned and/or given, until it is necessary to "revoke the benefit"...
~Vegas
In the name off God, The Merciful, The Compassionate.
ReplyDelete"Shall I inform you upon whom the devils descend?
They descend upon every lying, sinful one.
(Into whose ears) they pour hearsay vanities, and most of them are liars."
Qur'an 26: 221-223
In the name of Google, The Cognizant, The Knowledgeable.
Delete"Faith is often the boast of the man who is too lazy to investigate."
F. M. Knowles
I couldn't understand how anyone could knowingly "rebel" and treat this frivilously...then I read Genesis 2 and 3. Compare that to the true narrative I posted above and you can begin to see why. In Genesis, God is caricatured as just the top guy who lies to Adam and Eve about the tree saying they'll die if they eat from it...this so he can prevent them from becoming immortal. Furthermore, His powers are shown to be limited...he has to ask Adam where he is. Oh and of course the bulk of the blame is conveniently pinned on Eve.
DeleteRead the Qur'an and find the true narrative. Those with sincere hearts will automatically realize which one makes sense and which one is obviously distorted.
Also note that in the Qur'an, God expels Satan for disobeying him when He commands him to bow to Adam. He disobeys out of envy and pride. He later deceives Adam & Eve to eat of the tree. In Genesis it's upside down. The serpent comes across as all "empathetic" to Adam and Eve (yet disobedient to his Lord) because he tells them God lied to them and doesn't want them to eat for other reasons. Poor serpent is then punished (as opposed to earlier) for his "looking out" for Adam and Eve.
DeleteUse your sense people - those of you who have it and are sincere.
"The bible sucks, so absolutely everyone must become a muslim, no exceptions. Otherwise, you're all big fat insincere deluded liars."
DeleteJoanie
Joanie-
DeleteThe Quran is BS.
The Bible is the truth.
~Vegas
That should have read:
DeleteJoanie-
The Quran is BS.
The Bible is The Truth.
~Vegas
Joanie-
DeleteYour posts to Socioempath under "Anon", were quite disturbing.
I agree with Socioempath-you need help.
~Vegas
Joanie-
DeleteYou won't stop quoting the Quran, misquoting The Bible, calling people "psychos" and "dogs", and now your tone is threatening...
You need help.
~Vegas
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI just started reading the Bible today and a lot of the confusion is starting to make sense to me. One of the primary messages of the Qur'an is God reminding mankind of the Truth. He affirms that He sent down the previous scriptures but gradually they were corrupted (no doubt under the influence of Satan). I swear reading many of the accounts in Genesis and comparing them to the Qur'an - using your reason & innate sense of right / wrong - clearly shows this to be the case.
DeleteI'll leave aside several minor (but with huge implications) distortions I came across. The biggest and most serious corruption is this impression of God as some limited (in power & control) "boss" who is insecure and afraid that his creation might find out his secrets and rebel or something. God in Genesis banishes man from the Garden and then puts a guard to protect the Tree of Life (lest men get to eat and become immortal...). Later he sees that mankind is a single community with a single language working on the tower of babel. He gets scared and decides to set them apart, and break apart the single language. Contrast this with the Quran 49:13:
"O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of God, is the best in conduct. Lo! God is Knower, Aware."
This notion of God as weak, insecure, "big brother" kind of boss is nothing short of blasphemy in Islam. Out of mercy & compassionate He spares His creation immediate punishment for their transgressions - they may come around after realizing their mistakes. The psychos think and read this as "weakness" or a limitation on God's knowledge or power. God is aware of every single thought you have at every single instance (something alien to the Bible...at least so far in Genesis)
Jonaid-
DeleteJesus is God. God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient.
If you keep reading, you will know The Truth, and The Truth will set you free...
~Vegas
"The bible sucks, so absolutely everyone must become a muslim, no exceptions. Otherwise, you're all big fat insincere deluded liars."
DeleteNo, only the people who actually care about what is true and what is right more than they care about food, sex, money, power and health. Even they don't *have* to become Muslims - it's not compulsory but if they are as I described above, they will if they come across the unadulterated message of the Quran.
So, they aren't big fat deluded liars ("only the people who care about the truth and what is right") only if after "accepting" quran they become muslims afterwards ("it's not compulsory but if they are... ...they will")?
DeleteYeah. They don't *have* to, but they will. Because if they don't, they are infidels and sinners and liars.
Joanie logic, ftw!
It can also be referred to as "The Gig is Up", "The Show is Over", etc., which reminds me of a song!!!
ReplyDeleteRihanna
"Take A Bow"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3UjJ4wKLkg
Oh, how about a round of applause, yeah
A standing ovation
Oh, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
You look so dumb right now
Standing outside my house
Trying to apologize
You're so ugly when you cry
Please, just cut it out
[Chorus:]
Don't tell me you're sorry 'cause you're not
Baby when I know you're only sorry you got caught
But you put on quite a show
Really had me going
But now it's time to go
Curtain's finally closing
That was quite a show
Very entertaining
But it's over now (but it's over now)
Go on and take a bow
Grab your clothes and get gone (get gone)
You better hurry up
Before the sprinklers come on (come on)
Talking' bout'
Girl, I love you, you're the one
This just looks like a re-run
Please, what else is on (on)
[Chorus]
[Bridge]
Oh, and the award for
The best lie goes to you (goes to you)
For making me believe (that you)
That you could be faithful to me
Let's hear your speech, oh
How about a round of applause
A standing ovation
But you put on quite a show
Really had me going
Now it's time to go
Curtain's finally closing
That was quite a show
Very entertaining
But it's over now (but it's over now)
Go on and take a bow
But it's over now
~Vegas
Or, this song!!!
ReplyDeleteBeyonce
"Irreplaceable"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EwViQxSJJQ
To the left, to the left
To the left, to the left (mmmmmm)
To the left, to the left
Everything you own in the box to the left
In the closet that's my stuff
Yes, if I bought it, please don't touch
And keep talking that mess that's fine
But could you walk and talk at the same time
And, it's my name that's on that jag
So come move your bags, let me call you a cab
Standing in the front yard
Tellin' me, how I'm such a fool
Talkin' 'bout, I'll never ever find a man like you
You got me twisted
You must not know about me, you must not know about me
I could have another you in a minute
Matter of fact, he'll be here in a minute, baby
You must not know about me, you must not know about me
I can have another you by tomorrow
So don't you ever for a second get to thinking
You're irreplaceable
So go ahead and get gone
Call up that chick and see if she's home
Oops, I bet you thought, that I didn't know
What did you think I was putting you out for
Because you was untrue
Rollin' her around in the car that I bought you
Baby drop them keys
Hurry up before your taxi leaves
Standing in the front yard
Tellin' me, how I'm such a fool
Talkin' bout, I'll never ever find a man like you
You got me twisted
You must not know about me, you must not know about me
I could have another you in a minute
Matter of fact, he'll be here in a minute, baby
You must not know about me, you must not know about me
I can have another you by tomorrow
So don't you ever for a second get to thinking
You're irreplaceable
So since I'm not your everything
How about I'll be nothing
Nothing at all to you
Baby I won't shed a tear for you
I won't lose a wink of sleep
'Cause the truth of the matter is
Replacing you is so easy
To the left, to the left
To the left, to the left (mmmmmm)
To the left, to the left
Everything you own in the box to the left
To the left, to the left
Don't you ever for a second get to thinking
You're irreplaceable
You must not know about me, you must not know about me
I could have another you in a minute
Matter of fact, he'll be here in a minute, baby
You must not know about me, you must not know about me
I can have another you by tomorrow
So don't you ever for a second get to thinking (baby)
You must not know about me, you must not know about me
I could have another you in a minute
Matter of fact, he'll be here in a minute
You can pack all your bags
We're finished
'Cause you made your bed
Now lay in it
I can have another you by tomorrow
Don't you ever for a second get to thinking
You're irreplaceable
~Vegas
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DeleteTestimony By Wendy Owen, Getting my Ex back !
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