This has been mentioned briefly before, but I liked this recent comment for why borderline personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder often go together like peanut butter and jam:
One takes nothing personally, the other takes everything personally.
Psychopathic detachment can diffuse Borderline reactive rage; Borderline extreme emotion can be sufficiently 'loud' to penetrate psychopathic flattened affect; the non-judgmental approach of a psychopath can counter the black/white thinking of a Borderline, in the 'quiet' times when they're receptive to logic. The self-confident psychopath won't care about any Borderline accusations or insults.
Psychopaths [no fear] aren't bothered about the 'walking on eggshells' aspect of Borderline. And Borderlines usually appreciate the optimism and drive of the psychopath.
The only downside is the abandonment issues of the Borderline, since the psychopath....abandons, eventually. Although if the borderline is 'stabilised' by that point - they usually breathe a sigh of relief as they wave goodbye
One takes nothing personally, the other takes everything personally.
Psychopathic detachment can diffuse Borderline reactive rage; Borderline extreme emotion can be sufficiently 'loud' to penetrate psychopathic flattened affect; the non-judgmental approach of a psychopath can counter the black/white thinking of a Borderline, in the 'quiet' times when they're receptive to logic. The self-confident psychopath won't care about any Borderline accusations or insults.
Psychopaths [no fear] aren't bothered about the 'walking on eggshells' aspect of Borderline. And Borderlines usually appreciate the optimism and drive of the psychopath.
The only downside is the abandonment issues of the Borderline, since the psychopath....abandons, eventually. Although if the borderline is 'stabilised' by that point - they usually breathe a sigh of relief as they wave goodbye
FIRST!!!
ReplyDeleteYIPPEE!!!
~Vegas
A psychologist I visited described me as a "borderline narcissist" who wrapped himself in a thick layer of sociopathic tendencies. I don't know whether or not the diagnosis of borderline is true, though it definitely held water in my childhood days, but I can definitely see how they would complement each other.
ReplyDelete-kralizec
This is actually a really common comorbidity, I'm like that too. Though it is also altogether similar to covert narcissism. I suggest you check out Sam Vaknins videos on youtube on covert narcissism.
DeleteNope that's my parents, it's hell.
ReplyDeleteGo to agree with Anon@4:58. There are certain psychosis that feed each other and in doing so make each worse. This is one. Good matches for us are: another sociopath, Aspies, and strangely enough Bipolars. We have all these love matches in our group and they all function quite well. My husband is somewhere between aspie and socio and I am full socio and we have been together happily for 28 years, my roommate was having troubles until he met a lovely sociopath girl and now they are the most adorable of couples (they actually have a third not involved sexually but still part of their relationship as he is part of my husband and mine) another two couples with male sociopaths in our group (brothers) both have Bipolar lovers and that seems to work out well as they chaos factor keeps them entertained. We girls are the alphas in all the relationships.... They worst match I have ever seen for one of us is PPD though PARANOID PERSONALITY DISORDER. If you ever see one of these RUN, Run far, run fast, these people are poison.
DeleteOne takes nothing personally? Is that ASPD? This is not true. Tell a psychopath that he's a nobody. He likely won't explode in your face like a narcissist but it'll eat him up inside like nothing else. He'll preoccupy his mind with nothing planning your destruction. It's that much worse if you expose his deceptive tactics and then call him a nobody.
ReplyDeleteA borderline is just more honest about their feelings and is not committed to full on apathy. I think they're the ones who really don't take anything personally. An emotional reaction doesn't mean the person took something personally, it just means their emotions were triggered.
"One takes nothing personally? Is that ASPD? This is not true. Tell a psychopath that he's a nobody. He likely won't explode in your face like a narcissist but it'll eat him up inside like nothing else. He'll preoccupy his mind with nothing planning your destruction. It's that much worse if you expose his deceptive tactics and then call him a nobody."
DeleteI've had this impression too...
" An emotional reaction doesn't mean the person took something personally, it just means their emotions were triggered. "
Yes. And sociopaths can seem to misinterpret my reactions. They think I'm angry when I'm not, mistaking engaged/enthusiastic debate for anger or offendedness.
Often when I'm most enjoying it
DeleteNo borderlines do take things personally. That is their emotions and one of the basic things that make them borderlines. Misinterpreting everything because of their fear of being abandoned is everyday life if they are in a relationship.
DeleteAnon 2
DeleteSurprise! I agree with you entirely again. Same experiences. Sociopathic & clueless people have often assumed that I was angry or took something personally or worse, that I'm being "narcissistic" because THEY have no clue what's happening.
I'm reminded of the most recent such conversation. I was discussing something with a couple of business acquaintances (one of whom is narcissistic) and he, like always, does most of the talking and the least listening. When I responded, he ignored everything I said (I don't think he even listened) then pressed his own point again, oblivious to the fact that I just answered it. When I insisted he wasn't listening, HE calls ME a narcissist.
I swear to God I actually WANT people to be as open as possible with me. You can tell so many times people don't say something out of fear of offending you and I'm thinking "what the hell is so offensive about THAT? tell me so I can either correct your misconception or correct my own error."
It works both ways. I'm blunt, sometimes more than I should be (but hardly ever in an ill-intended way) and have noticed that people seem to take offense. Again I'm wondering "what's so offensive about that learn to be less serious about trivialities"?
Yes, the socio company is very exciting and fun when you're ignorant about the whole phenomenon and before you get close to one. If you ever need one, for anything serious, you realize the fun is not worth it.
"I think they're (bpds) the ones who really don't take anything personally."
Deletewell you maybe expirienceing the "everything is awsome" mode of borderliners.
nevertheless the "the world is against me" mode takes stuff personally you can´t imagine...
actually borderliners are the few people i´m scared of in the sense that they´re completely unpredictable and potentially vicious WITHOUT any logical basis.
socios are relatively predictable in the sense that they´re just caring about themselves. that´s a constant. a socio whould never sink the ship they´re in just to see you drown. they´re obsessed with winning not seeing the other one loose. they whould try to push you over the edge, but not risk their own interests.
bpd-s CAN be obsessed with "seeing the other one loose" COMBINED with being totally pissed without any justification in the real world makes them very scary indeed. completly unpredictable bunch if you ask me.
The socio is exceedingly selfish...not "caring" about himself. If he cared about himself he would not be a socio. Unfortunately for them, they're unable or unwilling to accept this until they decide to turn their lives around.
DeleteThe borderline is only unpredictable for socios and other empathy-deficient individuals. Even I'm unpredictable for socios just because I don't play games and adhere strictly to truth, whatever that maybe. They can't believe that anyone can be so unlike them (unless they're stupid and ignorant according to them) so they'll readily accept any alternative explanation, even one that defies everything they've seen and witnessed.
I personally would get a long just fine with borderlines because I can treat them like a human being and not run off scared when they do something erratic. Anything with any genuineness in them is fine.
I'm getting more and more convinced that psychiatric labels are more dangerous than they are beneficial. We take a cluster of transient symptoms and label them instead of looking at the bigger picture. The DSM keeps adding more and more "disorders" each time and almost all of them are just a cluster of symptoms someone put down and labelled "abnormal."
DeleteYou can be someone who's done a lot of wrong to others and have thereby diminished your capacity to empathize. If you're born to someone like this, chances are you inherited part of their stunted empathy. How does labelling the person "sociopath" help? It actually seems to do more damage since it says "you're X and it is expected of you to behave in XYZ manner." Almost all people behave callously at times in their lives and almost all "sociopaths" behave genuinely empathetically at times in their lives. It's a spectrum and no one is ever fixed on any given point.
hi jonaid
Deletewe happen to disagree
the socios i know care selfishly very much about themselves.
certainly more than they care about anything or anybody else. i think thats why they controll freaks to begin with, out of fear that harm will be done to them.
on borderliners...
" They can't believe that anyone can be so unlike them (unless they're stupid and ignorant according to them) so they'll readily accept any alternative explanation, even one that defies everything they've seen and witnessed. " you´re talking about you, not borderliners. And you´re not unbelieveble...
& If you get along with borderliner just by treating them like human beings and not being scared then they don´t care about you. You see, i´m not scared by borderliners. i´m scared of them caring about me... Which is a weird fear... (hehe... a new feeling every day)
I'm afraid I was not clear enough which led you to misread both points.
DeleteWhat I meant by them not caring about themselves is that if they really understood that they're actually harming themselves by being sociopathic, they'd realize that they're actually not caring about themselves. It's a big loss in the long run and worse loss when it comes to their soul.
As for the "They can't believe anyone can be so unlike them..." I was continuing on about sociopaths, not borderlines. I have nothing against borderlines - I sympathize & empathize with them.
Hope that clears up the misunderstanding.
Good Night.
Jona
DeleteThere wasn´t a misunderstanding on my part. We just happen to disagree.
Your borderline argument was that you get along with them by being nice. Good luck with that. (hint: it´s an antisocial personality disorder cause that doesn´t work properly)
On the sociopathic soul issue...
I´ve seen a sociopath who lost her sibling, her daughter and grandchild within a year. She wasn´t affected by it emotionally what so ever.
She´s well over 80 now, and there´s no sign of what you are talking about what so ever.
If with "long run" you meant afterlife i happen to disagree again. I think this religios afterlife heaven/hell, 1000 virgins bullshit is just people not accepting that we have 1 life and after that life we´re dead.
I'm not surprised that a seasoned psycho didn't show remorse even when nearing death. You think you can live all your life as a heartless sellout and deceiver and then repent right before death? The psycho is being fooled by God, not versa.
DeleteAs for afterlife, you'll find out for sure when the body begins to give out for good and you'll certainly know when you wake up again. You can tell yourself what you want to believe - that this is it so you can go on playing and screwing others - or you can use your reason and save yourself.
And who is stupider than the one who deludes himself for temporary gain?
"that this is it so you can go on playing and screwing others"
Deletewhy whould you judgemental wacko think i´d screw with others?? just cause i´m scared of bpd-s??
that´s what i hate about self rightous preacher boys like you.
you can´t accept that this precious life of ours ends...
you can´t accept that the fact, that we are in this short life together, and that´s all we got is reason enaugh to try to make this existance a better one for everybody involved. you need children stories about this life being a test. a training for afterlife happiness or despair.
i can´t accept this devaluation of the marvelous gift of existance. this argument for good out of fear, not ambition.
Hmm I'm a self-righteous preacher boy but you're the one who's going around making all kinds of wild assumptions about why people believe in "bullshit." It is thru your erroneous assumptions and caricatures that I deduce that you're lying to yourself. I've been an atheist for 12 years and I know full well what genuine disbelief (ignorance) is...it's nothing like what you've displayed.
DeleteNow really if you're so sure that it's all BS you really ought to ignore some "preacher boy" like me and go on enjoying your delusion. I just happen to know for certain that we'll both - and everyone else - have an appointment with God after we die. He knows every thought you and I have, let alone every action.
You see I'm a human too and I hit my breaking point too. I would likely have given in and become psychopathic by now had I not seen undeniable evidence for God and His undeniable signs. The certainty He gave me is worth an entire lifetime's worth of suffering.
The marvelous GIFT was given by Someone.
There are several variation in us ASPD's. I for one never take anything personally unless I really respect your opinion and then I analyze my behavior and see if you have a point. If you do I correct my behavior. If not meh who cares what sheep think. Some ASPD's are more Narc and yeah those are more paranoid and take any disagreement as an attack. The thing I like about my circle is we never take disagreements personally. We really don't take anything personally it is part of the charm of hanging with other socios.
DeleteI have a question for Jonaid. I have been getting the feeling that you think being a sociopath is a choice. You seem to think we can just quit and that we chose to be this way. Am I wrong? You seem to think that you can just BECOME psychopathic and the only thing holding you back is your belief in God. Not going to happen buddy. You have to be raised by a NARC and enabler or two Narcs and be genetically predisposed to it. We did not hit a "breaking point" we endured a mindfuck for our entire lives until we either broke free or our parents died. There is one thing in my life I have noticed about people who seem inclined to force the "word of God" down the throats of everyone they meet. I am not talking about true believers who demonstrate their faith by their actions. I have no problem with those people and only the greatest respect and admiration and love talking with them. No I am talking about those who scream their faith at anyone they meet. Because they have a secret. They don't really believe. They worship out of fear. They know in their hearts that they fall short and so fling their belief outward like a monkey tosses feces hoping that if they bring enough others to the flock that their own inadequacy will be overlooked.
DeleteThe others that do this are the hard core secret sinners. They point fingers and proselytize while doing everything that their faith says not to. So many people like this. It is the religious equivalent of narcissism. The "believer thinks they are the chosen and therefore can do no wrong, so they practice all the sins and then go looking for someone whose sin is worse than theirs. They need someone else to focus on so they don't look at themselves. For them it is a caparison game as long as there are worse sinners out there that they can "fix" then they are safe in their own sin. they are perfect..by comparison. they shout the loudest and commit the worst offenses..in the name of God. I may be a monster but I don't blame it on devil or God. I know myself and I know my God and my prayer is that I learn more about them every day. what do you pray for Jonaid? :)
I have sociopathic genes in the family and some traits myself. After being betrayed by the only people I blindly trusted I went into shock & severe mood swings. Becoming a two-faced deceiver: deliberately conjuring up masks & stories just for the heck of it became possible. Genies / "energy" / God...all the stuff I used to dismiss as superstition proved to be real.
DeleteAfter my awakening I now have the ability to choose my ethics whereas before while my brain could clearly see the logic behind different modes of thinking, it was bound to a code of ethics it inherited.
I distinguish between sociopaths and psychopaths. Sociopaths are people who are predisposed to - via genes or environment - to sociopathy & it's variations. They may not necessarily knowingly, willfully desire evil but may be inclined to it. It's a struggle and a commitment to undo this and takes time & genuine support.
Psychopaths are the real devils. These are people who push the first dominoes. They don't have a real history of abuse or bad genes or the like. The sneaking whisperer comes along to them and they realize if they cheat the system, sell their hearts & souls, they can get "ahead." Their arrogance and selfishness and base desires drive them, not their higher reasoning faculties nor any sense of right or wrong.
I agree with your assessment of many so called "religious" folks. Someone who's fake compensates by going out of their way to prove their commitment to certain religion. This only proves my point that intentions are everything: if you play ultra religious just to show people a mask of piety, you're a deceiver and psychopathic. God knows your intentions and when He raises you again you'll answer for it. That does not, however, mean that anyone devoted to God is therefore a fake.
I owe everything to God and now that I know that for certain, I'd be lying if I didn't give Him the credit always. I don't expect to be taken at my word by everyone, especially people on this blog, but that is no reason for me to nor say what I believe.
Peace.
I've recently come up with what I believe would be a good quote: "Psychopaths are more about what they think about things, not how they feel about things." Seems to pretty much sum the experience up. I grew into a borderliney personality type as I struggled with my identity, taking my place in society into consideration. Went on for years until I decided to just embrace who I am and not think about it, and it's led to quite a bit of fun personal breakthroughs. I know I'm not necessarily an ass by nature, so things generally go well around me. But I also suffer from a derealization disorder and that messes with my perception, but sometimes I think for the better, I think I'm just a highly... "conceptual" person. I'm not quite sure how to word that.
ReplyDelete"Psychopaths are more about what they think about things, not how they feel about things."
DeleteThis. This is good.
Myth: all psychopaths get trembling with anger if belittled. "Prison-psychos" get all worked up by a comment or a look. "Well adjusted" socios do what socios are famous for not doing: they care little if "fresh mice" are trying to piss off the cat. They switch table and look out the window.
ReplyDeleteYup, I have to respect to you to value your opinion and I don't respect sheep or fools which covers most of the population. You can't hurt my feelings cause I got none soooo...
DeleteIT IS GOOD TO BE A MOUSE!!!
ReplyDeleteLike they say-"When the cat's away, the mice will play"!!!
~Vegas
Cute;-)
Delete;-)
Delete~Vegas
Really like what Anon 708 & 251 wrote. Agreed to your thoughts.
ReplyDelete708 thumbs up
251 Thumbs up.
Although I don't use psychopath to refer to a sociopath....there's nothing psycho about a sociopath. They are free of delusional thought pattern. Rational. A psychopath is what we need to worry about in society. Not sure why the psychology community or people online interchange these two disorders interchangeably now. I guess that bothers me. But again my sentiments, doesn't matter too much. ;) lol
And the borderline and sociopath ( or two that fall within more on the spectrum traits) can be a match made from heaven if you are committed on learning eachothers wiring styles and love styles. Like in every relationship ....it's work.... It's perseverance and there's always reward. There's a bullshit metre too that both know how to tinker with .... All for good reason though. Haha ! :)
Meant 707
ReplyDeleteSpeaking from experience, as a BPD and having a psychopath friend. I perfectly agree with what was said. After he leaves though, he comes back in a few months bored since he can't find anyone to fuck with.
ReplyDelete@ XK: I've been busy with other things in life. I'm working at this Italian restaurant now, washing dishes and doing light food preparation. $13 an hour, three days a week, from three or four in the evening to ten or eleven at night. My first real job that isn't an internship, sex work, drug dealing, or having a run of the streets with those who are gang members or affliated with gangs. I got my first paycheck on the tenth of this month, I blew it all on booze, weed, and cheap sex. I don't really actually have to worry about rent with my current living situation because I conned them into letting me off for the month. I've actually have basically have never paid rent, I talked them into letting me do landscaping or doing some clean up around the property instead of paying rent.
ReplyDeleteI'm not too surprised I didn't turn out "worse"(? I don't see anything wrong with who I am as a person now (I more or less function in society, what more could be asked of me?), and some people seem to think I'm "bad" enough as I am now. Just the other day I was talking with a friend about necrophilia and why that's wrong. From what I got from what he was saying is that it's empathy that reinforces that aspect of morality; if an inanimate object or other thing can be humanized, it can be empathized with. I understand that, but what makes me different then? Dead bodies just seem like objects to me, more so than people because before they were basically robots made of flesh to me that move around make noises, and now they're just flesh that's dead and going to waste away. Why not fuck the corpses, I ask. Why not eat it too? Yet amongst normal people these things don't happen because they choose to humanize these objects. I have no qualms about having sex with dead bodies and even eating them, but is it because I lack a greater sense of empathy or that I choose to dehumanize people (a form of rationalization?)? I suppose when other people look at dead bodies, I assume they see something still worth respecting and loving even after death. Why? That object has ceased to be the person they once were before death, and now they're just dead flesh wasting away. Why not have dead bodies to feed the hungry, or perhaps use the bodies as fertilizer for neighborhood community food gardens, etc. Instead much of society is wasteful of bodies; dressing them up in nice clothes someone else could be utilizing, putting them in a expensive pretty box, and burying it, topping it all off with an elaborate ceremony. Why? We could dress the corpse up in a Hawaiian shirt and khaki shorts, have a full blown party with drinks and dancing, then end the evening feasting upon the flesh of our deceased loved one. Sounds a lot more appealing to me. Before death they were just someone I probably had my hands wrapped around their heart like a vice grip to use them as a tool, and after death a person only has so much more to offer that interests me.
If we're defining Sociopath = Greater impulse control and intelligent cost-benefit analysis of actions and Psychopath = Lower impulse control and less intelligent(? I've been told on many occasions by several people that I'm highly intelligent, but I don't think intelligence is quite clear cut; I've got great social intelligence (if you want to thrive on the streets selling drugs, doing sex work, and working alongside some of the most prominent drug dealers and street thugs in your city, you have to have some natural knack/cultivated social skill to navigate that environment, but perhaps I lack intelligence in certain areas that leads to better decision making?) cost-benefit analysis of actions (ASPD?), I'd have to say psychopath is a more appropriate label for me. Before I've used sociopathy/psychopathy interchangeably but I suppose a distinction between the two is fine.
ESTP Psychopath
Corpses.
DeleteDirty.
Smelly.
Rotten.
And possibly Diseased.
I don't see why someone wouldn't want to eat one.
Or fuck one.
Why have whores when we can have corpses?
Your suggestion reminds me of "A Modest Proposal"-by Jonathan Swift.
I believe you have solved the poverty issue.
Is that what you feed them there at the homeless shelter? ;)
Now seriously.
ESTP, you are not self aware.
High functioning? Intelligent? Doesn't look that way.
You have not presented one reason why that would be true. :/
And no my friends tell me doesn't count.
Anyway as long as you have fun it's fine.
I see you like doing sex work and selling drugs. I guess that's were you will remain.
You may feel like a predator, but if you take a look outside your huge ego buble you will see that you're a plant.
"what more could be asked of me?" I agree.
Or perhaps you will literally start serving italians?
And about the sociopath vs psychopath thing. First time I hear it that way around. Would you like to fill me in with that one?
@ ESTP:
Delete"I've been busy with other things in life."
Me too.
"I'm not too surprised I didn't turn out "worse"(? I don't see anything wrong with who I am as a person now (I more or less function in society, what more could be asked of me?)"
8-) Greatness?
I meant I was surprised you weren't more bitter and twisted by the cards you were dealt as a kid; not a criticism of what you are up to nowadays.
"I got my first paycheck on the tenth of this month, I blew it all on booze, weed, and cheap sex......perhaps I lack intelligence in certain areas that leads to better decision making?"
LOL. Ya think? 8-)
Again though, you're not exactly elderly, so blowing your first real wage isn't exactly a major sign of total degeneracy, is it, but pretty normal [I hate that word LOL].
However, I reckon you should eventually graduate to higher income jobs, so you can afford expensive sex. 8-)
Hmm. Did you perhaps know that Germany currently offers free education and visa for any young people who can speak English and want to study there?
Just sayin.
XK
Don't eat dead people. There is a version of Mad Cow (Prion) disease that gets transferred that way. This may have been why it became taboo. Same goes for having sex with them. Disease risk. Other reasons not to fuck the dead is that your hand is just as stimulating I mean if you are just looking for a hole to stick it in why a dead person?
DeleteEmoters let go in stages. They need to mourn. The mourning process is a way for them to come to grips with the change in their lives. To get used to the emotional loss. It is also a celebration of the life of the deceased. African ceremonies for instance go on for months some times, lots of feasting and dancing and joy as well as sadness. Never really understood it myself. I mean people die. Everyone seems all shocked when people die and it seems weird to me. I mean everyone is going to die. Why freak out about it?
Anon 1 hit the nail on the head. Your comment is worthy of attention.
ReplyDeleteI am a girl in these trait spectrums of borderline. Not all of the five out the nine. But some of these human traits experience - I stay there abit longer and it takes me longer to regulate depending on the day and as they call them-- triggers. Ask my friends who are borderlines..... what I actually think of borderlines? I joke with them. I can't handle one hundred of you-- maybe just only twenty of you (I ain't joining your groups on Facebook) because eventually they weed one-another out. And a borderline with narc tendencies makes it tough for them to see their own wrong- doings as they deflect and shift blame (their false sense of ego grows .) Its a faulty illusion that's upon them. Feed me! feed me! but fuck you when you are suffering, I'll expose you for my personal gain. That's not true friendship. Thats frenemies exposed nicely for you. Get away , run and never subject yourself again. That's a fish festering on another fish to eat for their faulty growth and glory. It can be like grade school stuff but they are just in adult bodies. They are great in the beginnings..... but can they sustain long lasting relationships? Some definitely can yes...but some just cannot. It takes resilience...it takes learning skills people have learnt through life. Skills unfortunately that have lacked in borderlines life. But there's behaviour modification courses throughout the psychology realm .....they can work on it ....if they choose to participate in it. Many do, many don't.
There are 250 sub-types of borderlines, find your corrected match I'd say. :) I'm not saying ALL borderlines are assholes-- that's really far from the actual truth, many of them are kindred spirits, kind hearted individuals who really can just see through bullshit. And a borderline who has leant skills and really tries to navigate them -not perfectly but tries - is a nice thing to witness and be around. :) And someone in the active throws of borderline is excellent at gaining awareness, insight and that recovery insight goal to continuing to work on. This is why a sociopathic type individual who is trustworthy can be a great match for them. And because a borderline is more emotional, dramatic (I'm saying that in a positive way) it stimulates the flattening effect of a sociopath like M.E mentioned in the blog post.
DeleteSociopath spectrum trait people just don't really judge people within the spectrum too much. Maybe like "play" judge you .......but deep down some sociopath individuals accept you for who you are inside and are authentic in protecting you. A borderline might rage at their play.... then quickly reset their brains and accept them. And a sociopath might respect their personal boundaries more so. Plus the borderline is playful themselves. And hopefully you can find your respectable play-match so you don't burn the candle at both ends ;) . Some cluster b' s can stay assholic more- some are more adjusted human beings struggling here and there. They mean well. Just the invalidating environments have made it tougher with them navigating through life. X The sociopath teaches them....you have you and only you ....validate yourself. It's the toughest core lesson a borderline must learn that the sociopath possesses. The borderline says yes, but others around you are good too take in as well. Look at it this way too. Equilibrium they must find together at times. But Sao being on opposite ends has its advantages more so than for these personality types I believe. Just my reality. I'm sure people have different experiences.
Again the traits of a-borderline " are just human traits amplified." Everyone has them ...it's just how we stay in them longer that can wreck havoc on themselves and others around them . I'd say the same for any cluster b diagnose. Human traits everyone experiences that has - amplified. They are stuck in them. Almost like playing in them.
I am sure there are levels of different sociopaths you'd like to really be around or just be content when the door finally closes behind you. A sense of calm and peace comes over you. It is finished.
I'm sure I can say the same thing about neaurotypicals :)
Yes I can..... Lol
We are not all exempt. We are more alike than not.
Are sociopaths inspired by loss? Or is it just business as usual?
DeleteDepends on the sociopath Anon@9:04.
DeletePsychopath=born that way
ReplyDeleteSociopath=developed that by due to tough environment
Scorpiopath=zodiac Scorpio, often very similar to both psycho and socio, more "animalistic", cares less about human interaction..
correction: "sociopath: developed that way due to.."
DeleteScorpiopath? Haha retarded as fuck
DeleteBtw im a Capricornpath xD
DeleteCAPRICORNS RULE!!!
DeleteYour Fellow Cap,
~Vegas
I'm a cap ;)
DeleteHey Superchick-
DeleteI KNEW YOU WERE COOL!!!
Your posts always say, exactly what I'm thinking.:)
CAPRICORN CHICKS ARE THE COOLEST CHICKS!!!
~Vegas
Whoever put together the list of seven deadly sins was right on. I've just fully realized that all the narcs, empathy lacking, self-obsessed, lazy, self-destructive, delusional backstabbers I know & knew are all obsessed entirely with sex. They can easily be manipulated if you feed their ego because it feeds their hard-on obsessed self image and let's them perform better. They can't tell anymore who's really on their side and who's just using them. They get used by people who can care less if they're breathing tomorrow. They, in turn, use the ones who really care about them so they can feel in control and boost their libido.
ReplyDeleteI knew they didn't apologize for screwing you over because of their pride but I couldn't understand how it could be so, so extreme. You can ease so many people's pain by just telling them you made mistakes and regret it but that would make them go limp.
My father is just one such person I know who lost himself to his lust & false pride. I'm a child of lust. When puberty hit my libido was stronger than anyone I knew. So much had to happen the way it did so that I would not fall prey to my urges. It bothered me for the longest time; not having experience, not having fun like everyone. So many opportunities which I had let slip, for no reason that I could make sense of. Today, I'm beyond grateful that I'm saved from this perversion. I've seen family members and friends ruin themselves, hurt others and continue on by lying to themselves and oblivious to the damage they do to themselves.
My father (and his) had incredible intelligence, amazing looks (6'2" handsome, machismo as they come) and so much potential when he was younger. I do not exaggerate when I say he could have easily been a billionaire had he directed his intelligence towards business rather than his cock. He did an amazing job of fooling his family and closest & real loved ones for decades. Really amazing job. After getting lucky to be taken on as a business partner by a relative, he's now, 17 years later, popping dozens of pills and driving a cab. He was once brave and fearless, not he's a cheap fraud and a pussy. Oh and of course he still blames those who did everything for him for his problems and loves those that screwed him his whole life because they still tell him he's amazing, all the while screwing him. All his children have some neurological deficiencies but thankfully, due largely to our self-sacrificing mother, it's nothing too horrible (no bipolar, schizo, etc). Only one of us four is heading down Dad's direction and that too is directly attributable to Dad.
I hope someone at least benefits from my sharing this. It's truly very sad and sickening what lust does, always, without exception.
Let's call me ESTP Empath
Wow it sounded like you were talking about my dad.
DeleteWant to share? It might prevent someone heading down the same direction.
DeleteThanks for sharing abit of your story.
DeleteDam lustful father, I can relate. Why dads wreck havoc on the family for fucking other broads , beats me. But yes , unfortunately it catches up.
There's more to life than just sex..
I'm abit hyper sexual myself but I try to channel it in healthy ways. Lucky husband. ;)
You sound like you healed yourself in areas - and have a lot of insight. Thumbs up! : )
Superchick-
DeleteI am hypersexual, too!!!
Our husbands are lucky.:)
Hypersexual Capricorn Chicks-what more can you ask for???
~Vegas
Superchick-
DeleteHey, maybe we just connected something:
Psychopath/Sociopath + Hypersexual Capricorn =
Perfect Match
~Vegas
Haha totally ..... :D it's funny so many of my friends are capricorns too. I hope this don't sound narc in any way but @ caps are rare gift breeds. And I'm saying that about some of my cap friends. It's like we're in tune like a laser been. ;)
DeleteIt's like it all clicks when I find out they is a Capricorn. We have are style. We just know. We just click. We just are . Lol
You know what I mean .... : )
Superchick-
DeleteYou said it, perfectly.:)
~Vegas
ESTP Empath-
ReplyDeleteTHAT WAS AN AWESOME POST!!!
"Whoever put together the list of seven deadly sins was right on."
I completely agree.:)
"Oh and of course he still blames those who did everything for him for his problems and loves those that screwed him his whole life because they still tell him he's amazing, all the while screwing him."
I have always been perplexed, as to why otherwise intelligent and objective people, do that.:(
Thank you, for sharing.:)
~Vegas
"Scorpiopaths" can be cute, almost like shi-tzu dogs. Not bad folks, really. Just a little despotic. And demanding. Self-centered.
ReplyDeleteHi i like your blog, this is interesting for psychologist,due to different personalities we need different jobs, for this visit http://www.jobz.pk/
ReplyDeletehttps://www.facebook.com/noel.walker.92
ReplyDeleteparasites are everywhere
The Borderlines I've met likely wouldn't survive a relationship with me... However, a friendship seems well worth the effort.
ReplyDeleteLast week I met a BPD friend of mine, on one of her not-so-well days, and out of carelessness forgot to remove some knife lying around in my bathroom.
She told me she had to throw up and I left her alone in the bathroom. Half an hour later I knocked on the door and asked her if everything's fine, whether I could come in and she said yes, as long as I wouldn't hit her.
A peculiar remark - and I did know what she did the second I asked her if she's alright.
Long story short, I calmed her down, desinfected the wounds and cheered her up, and the evening was saved for both of us.
I think she benefits from the friendship, especially considering her rather unhelping mother.
Yep, I think BPD/Psychopathy can be a good mix - just not in all cases. (My NarcMum with BPD traits is a good example of how bad it can play out in other cases.)
I love your blog NM
DeleteThank you, Anon. :)
DeleteNM-
ReplyDeleteI want to make sure, I understand your post.:)
Is your BPD friend bulimic?
Did she cut herself, with the knife, in your bathroom?
Do you know why, she thought, you might hit her?
Would you mind expanding, on what your interactions are like, with your mom?
~Vegas
Vegas,
DeleteMy BPD friend is not bulimic, she just said she didn't feel well. I didn't ask further xD
And yes, she cut herself. Had to myself in check 'cause blood turns me on...
" Do you know why, she thought, you might hit her? "
I think either her mum did that to her, or she expected me to freak out on her. Borderliners are quite strange in that aspect. They tend to to think you're going to abondone them for something this little.
" Would you mind expanding, on what your interactions are like, with your mom? "
Ha, there would be a lot to explain. My mum is mostly the "everyone in this universe needs to know and acknoledge how awesome we are as a family" type of person while she hit me with the dog leash and stuff like that. I don't really mind her anymore, but she knows she gotta behave when I pay her a visit or else I go home no matter how much it takes. ;p
Hey NM-
DeleteDoes blood turn you on in a "vampire" kind of way, a "I want to have sex with you" kind of way, both, etc.???
~Vegas
NM-
DeletePS-You sound good.:)
~Vegas
Rather in a "I want to have sex with you" kind of way xD
DeleteI know I sound good, btw I broke up with my SO yesterday, tho the anger was tremendously toned down due to indica strain weed.
Hey NM-
Delete"Rather in a "I want to have sex with you" kind of way"
You sound like you "got your way".:)
I was going to ask you about your SO, but I know I can ask too many personal questions, and I don't want to irritate you. I am glad you had some weed, so that your anger was toned down.:)
~Vegas
Vegas,
Delete" You sound like you "got your way".:) "
Not on this evening, but eventually yes. ;)
" I was going to ask you about your SO, but I know I can ask too many personal questions, and I don't want to irritate you. I am glad you had some weed, so that your anger was toned down.:) "
You don't irritate me just through asking questions. :)
Re the weed, I'm actually really surprised it helped so much. I guess what I smoked all my life long has been sativa, 'cause I can't recall such a calming effect... warm, buzzing feeling, a real nice but not too pushy happy-go-lucky feeling, similar to the chemical stuff - but unlike that absolutely not brash. I kinda liked it.
By the time he arrived at my place I was really 'soft' and toned down. What he did to me would have warranted at least verbal aggression, but the warm feeling was so much more convenient.
A sociopathic friend gave me the weed some hours earlier. I think I phoned him late at night to thank him for that xD
NM-
DeleteGetting your way is "a given".:)
I'm glad my questions don't irritate you.:)
Weed is good.:)
"What he did to me would have warranted at least verbal aggression..."
Would you like to expand???
"A sociopathic friend gave me the weed some hours earlier. I think I phoned him late at night to thank him for that."
That was nice of your friend, and nice of you, to thank him-I love your manners.:)
~Vegas
NM-
ReplyDelete"A peculiar remark - and I did know what she did the second I asked her if she's alright.
Long story short, I calmed her down, desinfected the wounds and cheered her up, and the evening was saved for both of us.
I think she benefits from the friendship, especially considering her rather unhelping mother."
That touched me.:) You calming your friend down, cleaning her wounds, cheering her up-that is beautiful.:)
Your friend is lucky, to have you for a friend.:)
Psychopaths/sociopaths really excel in these situations, where neurotypical emotion is out of control. You are able to be more helpful than the majority of neurotypicals would be, since their emotion would also, most likely "kick in".
This is a prime example, of where your abilities, can be used for good.:)
I think it is so awesome, that ThePsychopathInside volunteers at a crisis center.:)
Psychopaths/sociopaths have so much to offer, in a positive way...
~Vegas
I don't usually share personal stories, but NM's post inspired me.:)
ReplyDeleteAs I've mentioned before, I believe my husband is a psychopath/sociopath, and my mom is a Scorpio.:)
One day, something went wrong with the pipes at my house, and the basement began to flood. I called my husband and my mom, and they both made their way to my house ASAP. The water was quickly to a measurable amount, and I started freaking out, and yelling and screaming. My mom said we should try to get as much off the floor, that was being covered in water, as quickly as possible. My husband arrived, and instantaneously went to find the origin of the problem. Watching him, was like watching "Superman"!!! He found the origin within minutes, and took care of the problem.
Both my husband and my mom stayed calm/cool/collected the whole time!!! They were both in "find the origin and prevent loss" mode, and I was in "out of control" mode.
I am not easily "wound up", unless I don't know what to do. It's moments like those, where my psychopath/sociopath husband and Scorpio mom excel, and they amaze me.:)
~Vegas
Psychopaths/sociopaths and Scorpios ARE AWESOME IN CRISIS SITUATIONS!!!
ReplyDelete~Vegas
The bs on this blog, is bad comedy. But good for a laugh.
ReplyDeleteWell fuck ya too, haha! Welcome. Pull up a chair my hormone level is soaring.
DeleteKidding...
Well maybe ;)
Superchick-
DeleteYOU CRACK ME UP!!!
You posted, exactly what I was thinking.:)
~Vegas
Anon two if your chiming in , I had absolutely no idea they can live up to 80 years.
ReplyDeleteThe solution ,
My husband shoots them. ;)
They cause havoc on the farm animals. Grrrr... No no dam Ravens. My poor chickens & ducks. : (
They don't seem to bother the bigger farm stick just the smaller ones. Such an annoyance for sure.
Have a great long weekend. So beautiful out today : )
Meant Live stock , lol, fucken hormones I tell ya, whoo hoo, I get to stop them soon. I really don't make sense lately , :D
DeleteYou have a great weekend too! :) I'm working through mine so far but think I may have to do the dark room tomorrow or I'll never get through the week. My head turns to mush when I have too much to do and I can't think straight (or at all really)unless I can get into hyper-focus emotion-off mode...
DeleteI think it must be great living on a farm! Hope you get the break from the hormones very soon & catch you when I'm lucid/recovered again :)
@ Anon2 re May 15 at 6.29am onwards:
DeleteWas too busy in real life to post at that time. Your description about
"One day I experienced something that I'm convinced was close to clinical psychopathy...."
was so accurate it was stunning. That first part [the blankness] you described was depersonalisation [if memory of the terminology is correct].
The descriptions in the next two [contd] comments are exactly what it's like. Everything the same value etc etc.
It was very good to read it. Appreciated.
8-) BTW that seven year old child is indeed the inner part that the shrink tries to help one 'connect with' and listen to. With occasional success. 8-)
Thanks again.
XK
Yes Anon2 I just read it, it was mind opening. I feel like I finally get psychopathy and you explained it in just one post.
DeleteAh yes the dark room is beneficial and needed at times. You take care, : )
DeleteThank you Superchick! You too :) The dark room works a charm - I'm tasting a little bit of the left-brain again now (thank god) and hope I can hang on to it a couple of weeks to get all this ghastly bureaucratic crap sorted halfway efficiently! We weren't built for it, our type :)
DeleteXK - Thanks so much for that response... that's bowled me over! It's the first confirmation of any kind I've received. I've told very few people about it, instinctively knowing/feeling it would be pointless or counterproductive in most cases - there is no way I can really convey that experience to someone who hasn't experienced something like it; describing it is one thing, experiencing it something else entirely. The few I tried to explain it to were left nonplussed, and my hypothesis (conviction, really, but based on nothing but very strong hunch) that it was essentially psychopathic of course carries no weight - it just leads to judgements/speculations about me, as it would (why's she saying something so weird? or whatever). Even my most sociopathic friend, who I'd hoped would relate (who has a lot of traits, but I don't think is really in this ballpark) said it sounded like I'd had a 'psychotic break'. I couldn't explain to him that it was the farthest thing from psychosis (which I've seen up close more than once) I could imagine; there was nothing psychotic, or 'mad' in any way, about it. I'd never been more 'tempered' and in control in my life. I just sound bonkers, to them, describing something so alien and trying to attribute such 'significance' to it. So it's a hell of a milestone having anyone confirm what I thought, and incredibly interesting to me: now I can give free-rein to those ideas again and it makes relating the experience much more feasible... It's making me smile talking about it in these emotional/meaningful terms because the version of me that day wouldn't have been doing any of that (apart from the seven year old boy who was admittedly quite 'titilated' by it in a mischievous/uh-oh-look-what's happened-to-me (snigger) kind of way). A thousand thanks. That's made my day/week/year. Really glad you appreciated it too. Awesome. Thank you! :)
DeleteAnonymous @10.46 Thank you & I'm glad you found it useful! Thanks for saying so :)
DeleteIt's making me seriously wonder about mercury again. It's f'king powerful stuff, and it's been in all of our childhood vaccines (as a 'preservative' ffs). They've started reducing quantities but only over the last decade or so. Links with alzheimer's, MS and autism are all either established or being researched, but I wonder if psychopathy should be in the picture too. There could be genetic-related susceptibilities as there are four genetic types to do with ability to detoxify poisons; one very efficient, one very inefficient. I remember one study on a group of autistic kids found the latter genetic type to be those with the severest autism. I just can't help wondering this after my experiences. On the other hand, the experience was quite 'physical' too - one thing I forgot to mention in my account was that I'd had an extremely 'tight' scalp all that day, which had also disappeared the next (like wearing a much-too-tight bathing cap - very odd feeling). But I still can't help wondering about it - it was SUCH a different experience and such an interesting one. A totally new paradigm. And to have it confirmed that it was close to the sociopathic/psychopathic one is pretty stunning. I have often wondered how my life would have played out had I stayed in that mode, because it would have HAD to have been entirely different. Everything would have been different; all my norms, my whole experience. Again, not in a good or bad way, not 'worse' - they're not directly comparable - just utterly different. Like stepping into a different reality.
Delete@ Anon2 at 3.43pm:
DeleteWell, that didn't work! my reply to you got posted in the wrong thread. Look below, under the 'crime books' thread! sorry about that. XK
XK, that's totally fascinating - thank you again. I hadn't thanked you for the information/specifics you'd added to my picture, but that's what been playing round my mind since (and I just woke up thinking about it too). It's fascinating to hear that the 'depersonalisation' isn't constant, which confirms my speculations that there must be huge and significant variation within this other paradigm too (while still being 'its own paradigm'), which figures with my experience of others too; I've known closely about three people who seem to me to distinctly to 'belong' to it (according to my subsequent 'reading', etc, rather than that experience) but their personalities/'psychopathic' characteristics are weighted so differently... they're really no more alike than any three randomly-picked 'emotionals' are likely to be - in a way they're more different (or, possibly, just more obviously so?) for being such distinct individuals and free-thinkers, each probably having more in common with me, overall (in my normal mode), than with each other. So I find/see this whole 'generalisation' business to be as potentially problematic as 'useful' - its use is limited, and dangerous, I feel; a 'mistake to make'... while being essential, to some extent, for another type to get any handle at all on the degree of difference that's possible. It also tickles me to learn of the term 'depersonalisation' - which of course means absolutely nothing to the person I was that day, being 'defined' by the type I wasn't, i.e how I differed from them! Defined by 'their' terms and norms, I mean (which of course applies to my own descriptions too). It occurs to me that in a community of majority non-emotion-experiencers, the abberation would be 'personalisation' (except it would have a completely different name) and would be as legitimately regarded a 'syndrome', given that I am as little responsible for it or in control of my 'personalisation' - have as little 'chosen' it - in the rest of my life, as I was of 'depersonalisation' that day. And I know that it would look like some childish/fantastical nonsense, this 'delusion' of me-ness and feeling and 'meaning' that governs that type of life and experience... It's probably just as well I have to be somewhere soon, because I think I could ramble off on all kinds of tangents - your input has set off an explosion (just to use another too-dramatic word) of mental activity which I think it'll take me days to exhaust and process/absorb. It's like being given permission to explore all these thoughts as valid, after having reluctantly accepted the possibility (from others' responses) that I just had a bit of a nutsy day. I'm so pleased you took it to the shrink (flattered! approval is so important to us emoters) and found it to be useful/interesting as that, and am really glad I bothered to post it now. It's been in my mental pending folder so long, nagging for answers and attention). All best to you too, and thanks again! times a thousand :) bloody fascinating
DeleteXK - Got to apologise for my unbelievably garbled reply ^this morning... Even I can hardly follow it (and I Knew what I was trying to say). Take it as an example of the perils of too-easy stimulation. But suffice to say it's been a treat. Your descriptions of what it's like for you are really fascinating, and easily-relatable to. But even though I possibly tasted the 'essence' of it that day, it was too short...too short to see how it'd play out in the world, how different interactions with the world and situations would have been... I suspect it would have all changed pretty dramatically, and fast, but didn't get the chance to witness that, and maybe/probably won't again. I didn't meet a single person face to face that day, and phoned only two people briefly, so a literally only had a taste, and the rest of the experience was left undone.
Delete"Once that changes [ie. one gets self-aware], especially during hyperfocus, it's like having the mind of a scalpel and armoured tank at the same time. A lot of the time I'm in awe in a disinterested kind of way as to how such a mind comes up with the level of connections it does, so fast and so automatically. "
I love this and can easily believe/imagine it. And "...in awe in a disinterested kind of way" so perfectly captures the spirit of it. It was a bit disconcerting and concerning (in disinterested kind of way) at the time, but with greater knowledge and understanding it's a very fond/special memory... all this emotive language again :) I'll shut up before I do the same thing as this morning and start spilling all over the place. It's the dark room time again. All very best & thanks :)
Oh dear, I can't stop!
DeleteJust want to add,
"It takes a lot of activity and danger to keep that kind of mind 'healthy'. Like parking a Ferrari in the garage and only driving it to the local supermarket. The engine would probably eventually seize up."
This makes a lot of sense. When I said 'everything would have to have changed', this is what I meant. I didn't know where my 'satisfactions' and 'fulfilments' were going to come from, but I knew that all my previous, habitual ones were off the table; I didn't know what my 'needs' were or how they'd be met, but knew it would all be different.
Another thing that impresses me about that memory was how clear and 'whole' my understanding was of all these things. Understanding was 'holistic' and instantaneous - none of this puzzling through, sifting out answers (or guesses more often) through a clamour/hubbub of emotional voices. I would pose a question to my mind, and the answer/understanding would be there in the next breath. That's a very rare experience with my 'emotional' mind - everything is so confusing in comparison. It's like having a gaggle of corgis round your ankles all yapping together. My mind was so clean that day. Kind of sequential AND holistic, at the same time, as opposed to anarchic and associative and piecemeal. Now I'll try to stop! :)
@ Anon2
Delete"Oh dear, I can't stop!"
[This said kindly and amused]:
That does seem to be the case 8-)
LOL [laughing with you].
" My mind was so clean that day."
The recent-ish book 'Wisdom of Psychopaths' by Kevin Dutton also has a description [page 157] when his brain is massaged by TMS, where he describes how it feels to think that way....
'an easy, airy confidence...however, a glaring difference between this and alcohol....[is] the enhancement of attentional acuity and sharpness...An insuperable feeling of heightened polished awareness...transcendental loosening of inhibition....my anxieties drowned....my whole way of being feels like it was spring-cleaned with light.
So this...is how it feels to be a psychopath. To cruise through life knowing that no matter what you say or do, guilt, remorse, shame, pity, fear, all those familiar everyday warning signals...no longer trouble you....What if one's conscience has an infinite pain threshold and doesn't bat an eye when others are screaming in agony?'
[His language is quite 'embellished' but I get the sense he was somewhat carried away by his experience. 8-) ME posted the description a long time ago in this blog as well, when his book came out. It's an interesting and useful book.]
...to answer your question of "I didn't know what my 'needs' were or how they'd be met, but knew it would all be different."
It does change things radically as to what one needs to control, or not. The less said about that, the better. LOL.
This though, I found really interesting, of yours:
"with my 'emotional' mind - everything is so confusing in comparison. It's like having a gaggle of corgis round your ankles all yapping together. My mind was so clean that day. Kind of sequential AND holistic, at the same time, as opposed to anarchic and associative and piecemeal."
See, never having had that, and not aware that that was how it was for most people, I could never understand why they were so slow coming to decisions/ conclusions/ choices. I used to feel annoyed. Now I have more patience. [well. mostly. 8-/] They can't help it, and that's OK. Each group has their place in the scheme of things, as long as each group doesn't expect the other group to be like them. Just my two cents. 8-)
XK
"See, never having had that, and not aware that that was how it was for most people, I could never understand why they were so slow coming to decisions/ conclusions/ choices. I used to feel annoyed. Now I have more patience. [well. mostly. 8-/] "
DeleteI can imagine that! And can imagine that applying 'patience' as a purely/exclusively intellectual excercise/function is a lot harder too. That's one way in which I wondered how I'd have fared, going it alone without my emotional personality. I'm pretty sure that at the very least I'd (being optimistic here) have gone a lot more Larry David, pretty rapidly (being very optimistic). Because it's not even just about knowing and understanding the territory and/or empathising (for me, anyway); I'm aware that I use the 'cheats' or shortcuts that the emotional side makes available, so to speak. For eg, if I'm struggling with 'patience for its own sake', I'll reach for an emotional helper-motive, such as 'I like niceness/harmony for its own sake, let's just prioritise that', which gets handily 'fed' by the emotional 'value' (to me) of 'niceness' - the feeling that thought summons; the recollection of the quality of 'niceness' (whatever that means to me) which then feels so self-evidently 'better' than frustration/annoyance, there's no contest and I'm out of the woods, having my emotional incentive and reward for being patient (happens in a flash, of course). The thing with emotions is, they're running the whole time - you don't 'do' them... or, even if you do 'do' the individual ones (catching them at their inception is another ballgame though) you don't 'do' the emotional environment/setting - it is literally like the air around you (or the OS, I suppose). That's what I discovered the day after that experience when I woke up 'me' again. It is so different. It's like instead of the clean, calm space of emotion-free intellect, there's a fragrance, or a music, and atmosphere within which you have your whole existence - there's stuff in the air, stuff with energy of its own. Literally a different world. And you can adjust the stuff - within limits... you can tone it right down, you can simplify it, you can 'clean' it quite a lot... but it's NOTHING in comparison with its total absence... the difference is so great, it's another world.
I kind of wish you could have the reverse experience to me - day in the life of a well-meaning over-emotioned bundle of stuff... you'd be equally amazed... the very fabric of the experience is different, not just the contents or characteristics.
Thanks for posting the Dutton thing! That's interesting. God, yes, he is quite flowery isn't he?... even by my standards:). I'm suspecting he experienced a comparative 'halfway house' though... although he did also experienced the transition itself, so that could account for 'loosening of inhibition' - in mine it wasn't loosened, it was just gone...the concept was meaningless... and I've never have called it 'transcendental' either which is (for me) another quite emotionally-based thing/idea... But all these terms are very subjective, I suppose... But it's really interesting to see the essential resemblance - the clarity factor, very 'confirmatory'. I'll read that book - Thank you :)
I could go on... :)
In fact, I will just a bit and then I'll try to stop. Because this is the fortnight of all fortnights (exaggerating again) that I should be starving my emotional appetites/personality and focusing on matters of consequence (to quote the little prince) and discipline, I learned that day, is less a thing to be applied than the absence of emotions that frustrate it. This is why people can't make decisions (if they're like me) - so much of it conflicts; trying to reconcile it (which is probably a mistake to make) gets you in a pickle. Just trying to identify them can take forever. You can't see the wood for the trees sometimes. It's maybe less like corgis than something like the seven dwarfs following you around, each with their own little placards. Greedy, lazy, cowardly, self-doubty, bossy, calvinist, oh forget it, there's way more than seven. And they're just the crude ones (but which tend to yap loudest). And then there's this awful kind of inverse law at work, of course, that the most important or meaningful the decision -the ones you most want to get right - the more you'll be crippled by the emotional activity and rendered incapable. I think it's great you apply patience, and I thank you on behalf of the emotionally over-endowed everywhere. There's nothing like being given a bit more time to think about it :)
DeleteI could go on...
But I'm going to shut the fuck up now :)
I agree with your 2 cents by the way.
Oh and just this. I meant to say something about this:
Delete"'Assumptions, assumptions. My kingdom for no assumptions.'"
I haven't got time to decide what to say, but it makes me laugh out loud. That's a good one.
M.E really ought to tweet it
DeleteAnon2;
DeleteWe can't go on meeting like this.
[reproving, serious look] LOL.
People will think we have something to hide, skulking around at the bottom of a now-dead ME blog post thread. 8-) Anyway, onwards:
At 5.46am:
"I could go on... :)"
[snip]
At 5.47am:
"In fact, I will just a bit and then I'll try to stop." [XK: 8-)]
[snip]
"I could go on...
But I'm going to shut the fuck up now :)" [XK: 8-) 8-)]
At 5.54am:
"Oh and just this. I meant to say something about this:" [XK: LOL!]
Lmao. Classic. 8-) Anon2, if this is your version of Borderline - the entire world needs to get it! 8-) Wars would stop instantly. LOL.
I loved it, let alone the content of the actual comments.
OK. [serious face or at least an attempt at one 8-)] In fact, so much, I've cut and pasted the lot and am going to show it to Short Shrink. With the instruction [akin to PuppyBasket's] for us to: Discuss.
Your description of thought process inclusive of emotions sounds [and I mean no insult] a nightmare. I have actually 'suffered' a few weeks of having really strong emotions. I thought [no joke] I was going mad. If I hadn't had a Big Shrink to talk to I would actually have had myself committed to a 'health spa' [I think they used to be called euphemistically].
I can just imagine the conversation with the in-house consultant psychiatrist.
Psychiatrist: So, XK, you want to come and stay with us a while, do you? Why's that?
XK: It's terrible. They're *everywhere*. Up, down, sideways! They don't stop. Can't think can't sleep can't read can't even watch TV. They're totally out of control. I can't tell them to shut up!
Psychiatrist: What, XK, you hear voices? Are they telling you to kill someone?
[starts scribbling on pad. They all have pads 8-)].
XK: No! *Feelings*. *Feelings*. I can't get them out of my head. Give me some meds. Knock me out. Hell, even a hammer-blow to the head should do it!
[XK looks hopefully and expectantly at the psychiatrist....]
Psychiatrist [in a cold tone]: Are you telling me you want to get committed because you're feeling emotions? Are you mad?
[XK thinks 'Yes, he's onto it!' only to hear]:
Psychiatrist: XK, the nice man in the white coat will escort you to the door. We can't waste space on malingerers. Good day!
XK leaves the room, walks into the street, physically assaults several passers-by. Thinks smugly: 'that'll show him who's malingering!'
XK gets marched off back to the 'health spa'. Gets a soothing padded 'room'. For ten years. Bliss. 8-)
There but for the help of Shrinks.... LOL.
Anyway, suffice to say that your description of how it 'feels' [shudder 8-)] is both lyrical and sufficiently evocative that I can 'get it', and discuss it with Short Shrink without both of us looking blankly at each other. Many thanks!
[Actually it's probably been a good idea to stay here - it's peaceful!]
XK
"I have actually 'suffered' a few weeks of having really strong emotions."
DeleteEmotions are not normally this extreme. When they are, they are followed by a period of "relief" where you feel equally ecstatic. You sound like a really weak person who can't handle anything unpleasant, particularly when it comes to emotions.
You don't even know what you're missing because you're afraid. It shows in your writing style. Now don't explode on me I really feel for you.
@ Anon2
Delete"M.E really ought to tweet it"
8-/ it seems as of an hour ago she did.
Even the walls have ears around here [furtive looks]. 8-)
XK
@ [shit-stirring?] Anon at 6.42pm:
DeleteI knew it would be too good to last. Sigh.
"You sound like a really weak person who can't handle anything unpleasant, particularly when it comes to emotions."
I'm afraid all the clinical evidence [re weak, fearful, anxious, emotionally vulnerable etc] disagreed with you. It is a fact that the things that traumatise and cause fear and anxiety in most other people, don't. To be more specific: can't.
So once again, *with feeling*: 8-)
'Assumptions, assumptions. My kingdom for no assumptions.'
"It shows in your writing style."
Absolutely correct. It does [although I'm assuming 8-) I understand what 'it' you refer to]. Being usually either rational [internally] or highly amused and engaged [internally and externally], it of course influences writing style. Amusement and delight don't get transferred into 'written' very well, hence all the LOLs and 8-) spread thru the text. Rage doesn't occur much nowadays because there are shrinks for that. [No that doesn't mean they get hit about their heads as a therapeutic technique to quell rage BTW]. 8-)
"don't explode on me"
LOL oh OK then. Drat. 8-)
"I really feel for you."
Probably because you make "Assumptions, assum....." you know the rest. LOL
XK
I see your type now. Here let's make an *assumption* you're a patho liar and you know it. You get a kick out of it don't you? Let's make more *assumptions* while we're at it. Considering the frivolity you display, I'd say you're the type that undoes *emotions* just so you can enjoy your sexual perversions more often. I bet you're the *whoring* type and you love it don't you?
DeleteResponsibility? That doesn't exist in your pathetic little world. You "can't" feel because it doesn't serve your pointless existence, not because you just "can't." Go on now don't mind my *assumptions* and try again.
@ boring anon
DeleteYou sound like a really serious person who can't handle anything humorous, particularly when it comes to irony. Or is that an act?
" 8-/ it seems as of an hour ago she did. "
DeleteNice one! :)
I bet you're the *fearless* *machismo* type who nearly shits himself when confronted. You don't sound like a *lady* but I bet you play the role, and love it don't you? You're so *fearless* you can't help but display your aggression & your inner dare devil as the Mighty *XK* online. Doesn't change the fact that you're a *cheap* ******
DeleteDid I get carried away with the *assumptions*?
Anon 2 don't be so serious. I'm not picking a *fight* with you. *XK* is more attractive and affordable.
DeleteXK - Chortled right the way through your interview!
DeleteWhy Short Shrink and Big Shrink, just out of curiosity? (or is that a stupid question?:)
The world is requiring that I Do Things today, but I'll be back! :)
I knew it was a mistake to use a question mark. Sigh.
Delete@ Anon2:
DeleteThe 'shrink names' just allude to their body types, in a nice way. 8-)
[XK carefully steps over something very messy in the corner]
Let's tactfully ignore the vituperative vomit, someone's obviously very sick. 8-)
XK
I think I've given myself borderline burnout now :)
DeleteMore importantly, I have a deadline in 15 days, the only chance I stand of meeting is to get bored and stay bored without further ado! Which means no more of this.
Or this:
"Anyway, suffice to say that your description of how it 'feels' [shudder 8-)] is both lyrical and sufficiently evocative that I can 'get it', and discuss it with Short Shrink without both of us looking blankly at each other. Many thanks!"
That's great :) Pleasure to be of service :)
And absolutely none of this:
"Anon2, if this is your version of Borderline - the entire world needs to get it! 8-) Wars would stop instantly. LOL"
I'm dying to ask you what you think about this, actually... You know your Borderline stuff, by the sound of it - do you reckon I'm one? Can you tell these things? Are you getting a borderline vibe from me?
And for pity's sake, nothing like this:
"I have actually 'suffered' a few weeks of having really strong emotions. I thought [no joke] I was going mad."
The latter doesn't surprise me! The former intrigues me no end... How did it happen? How did it stop? Was there a how? What was it like? (all contingent upon your actually wanting to answer, with no offence about to be taken should you not :)
or this:
"That depersonalisation part I once had for several days. It was very interesting to know that I could blow up half the world pressing a button if someone asked me to, and then go watch TV. Even more interesting that that was just 'filed away' - and then I watched TV LOL.
The second part you described, is how things usually are..."
Did you mean that it no longer feels like that (world, button, TV) out of the depersonalisation? (with the same footnote as before)
There, that's me done for 15 days. With a bit of luck. Thank you again for your responses! Fascinating stuff. It's been an highly entertaining education :)
(the dwarfs have been giving me hell over this, it's the only way I can shut them up)
they said I could have one ps
DeleteI meant to say something about the padded room... the padded room...my kingdom for a padded room... but without the doctors and the non-smoking policy.
I sometimes wonder if I should pad my house, and make believe, from time to time, that I'm not allowed out and don't have to pay rent :)
That's it now. Because I've got discipline. And I believe in things like deadlines. They're dead real to me.
Anon2:
Delete8-) Likewise, re the education, and likewise, re chatting about this stuff. It was such a lovely change, and well appreciated. For the fact that all of it was coherent, really descriptive and absolutely without antagonism [I know that sounds like I'm marking an essay 8-)] It's that writing style again 8-/
It would, certainly, be good to 'talk' again when there is time; I hope you meet your deadline. 8-)
As for dwarves, how about a few surreptitious stranglings of some of them...in that dark room, if they get too insistent; where no-one can witness the crime?
8-) Works a treat.
No BTW I don't think you've been very Borderline; it was something I read you suggest about yourself to SuperChick, is all. Yes, I do have a prolonged acquaintance with a Borderline. Which is why aggressive, hostile rants Just Do Not Work. They essentially mean nothing other than someone wants to antagonise, to learn your weak spots, so they can attack those more efficiently another time. To see if you will give up on them. Because, sadly, that's what they expect.
Done that, seen the movie, even bought the t-shirt.
bye for now,
XK
@ Anon2 again,
DeleteHaving little regard for dwarves, I can take a PS anytime I want. LOL.
Forgot to say; your questions above, I could respond to most. But not for 15 days. Having a disgustingly high level of self discipline myself, I am fully supportive of those attempting to practice the same. [self-important tone: off] 8-)
XK
Thank you :)
DeleteI'll allow myself one more reply (for now).
The dwarfs have fucked off now I'm doing 'the right thing' and I'm chilling out nicely. You're right they could do with a prune. I'm going to work on that. Calvinist's going first.
You're right I'm not Borderline too. I've just been reading some earlier posts on it. I feel a bit sheepish, because there's no way I can claim to suffer, or have suffered, with anything. What I have is a personality that undeniably shares some tendencies, to a pretty mild degree (and degree is everything here) and mostly just an uncanny resemblance to Superchick on the soft/empathy side, and the scrupulous side, and excitable side. And the ocd-ish bias. (I could go on, probably :) I liked that you enjoyed my version of it, though.
Which brings me back to the dwarves (ocd). The reason they weigh-in like this is because I'm a very good one-thing-at-a-time person and an abominable multi-tasker. Whichever thing is most interesting or fun takes over, and I stay in that mode til I'm done with it, and only then go into another mode. When I get into stimulating-conversation mode, bureaucratic deadlines will dissolve into the ether (where they rightfully belong)(but tell that to the government). So in come the dwarves (Send in the Dwarves?:) demanding the nuclear option, sooner or later.
Ah, I notice I just adopted your spelling, unconsciously! I'm such a wimp. (Dwarves is apparently a later variation, popularised by Tolkein.)
I just can't fking shut up, can I?
(You wouldn't believe the difference in me in work mode. I go right off talking then. I love working instead then (almost always). This is the problem; they're not compatible. And deadlines wait for no man...
Ah, reminds me of Douglas Adams :) (anarchic associative piecemeal mind in full swing here)
http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/1398-i-love-deadlines-i-love-the-whooshing-noise-they-make
Yep, I've really enjoyed this too! And look forward to picking it up :)
All the best & bye for now!
What's a PS?
DeleteAwesome on the deadline-solidarity thing! (even though I want to know the answers, course). Appreciated!
PS Oh right! Sorry :)
Delete@ Anon2:
DeletePPS: "I just can't fking shut up, can I?"
LOL. Neither, it seems, can I!!. How's that for spectacular 'lack of specific insight' LOL?!
I'll shut up about having high self-discipline about now I think. 8-/ OK. I'm only replying because I could well forget, 15 days down the track, about these:
"on the soft/empathy side, and the scrupulous side, and excitable side. And the ocd-ish bias."
*That's* [connections made now] why I've been enjoying responding to your posts [XK sees it all very clearly now...hah! got it! 8-)]. All the very good friends I've kept for years are like that. Exactly that. It's a really good dynamic; easy to spot that genuineness, and works for both sides. And never any nastiness. I so dislike nastiness, except as a tool to swat nasty people with.
Anyway. Have a good 15 days of OCD-style working. [rueful look: I work like that too. Not due to dwarves though. Some silly people 8-) call it obsessiveness. Me, I prefer 'whatever it takes to get the job done' 8-)].
OK. Do not respond with anything more even *faintly* interesting, to this last email, or I will hunt you down and feed you to crows.
Maybe just an 'OK, got that', if you are compelled. LOL
XK
OK :) got that
DeleteWhen ordinary, legal psychopaths read true crime-books and find gruesome characters that they can understand/"mirror themselves" in...is that a weird feeling?
ReplyDeleteNo.
DeleteNope
DeleteI do giggle a bit. I definitely critique their methodology. We do discus the best ways to do murders in our house with three sociopaths in residence. There are what norms would think are some pretty odd discussions here sometimes.
DeleteI liked reading The Iceman biog. but it wasn't weird understanding him. Soothing. Enjoyed the three HBO documentaries too. It seemed like he had a good sense of humour.
DeleteThe more I read of your posts PB, the more ridiculous you become. Why is that?
Delete@ Anon2 at 3.43pm:
DeleteI was just as startled reading your stuff [as you seem to be by my response 8-/]. I took it to a shrink I 'visit'. LOL
That depersonalisation part I once had for several days. It was very interesting to know that I could blow up half the world pressing a button if someone asked me to, and then go watch TV. Even more interesting that that was just 'filed away' - and then I watched TV LOL
The second part you described, is how things usually are, [when fully self-aware of what/how you feel and don't feel]. There's another state of mind where you don't know that what you [aren't] feeling is different from most other people's state of mind. It's more cloudy and layered. Once that changes [ie. one gets self-aware], especially during hyperfocus, it's like having the mind of a scalpel and armoured tank at the same time. A lot of the time I'm in awe in a disinterested kind of way as to how such a mind comes up with the level of connections it does, so fast and so automatically.
It takes a lot of activity and danger to keep that kind of mind 'healthy'. Like parking a Ferrari in the garage and only driving it to the local supermarket. The engine would probably eventually seize up. 8-)
"Everything would have been different; all my norms, my whole experience."
Yes, that's true. Everything changes, when it becomes clear what such a mindset is capable of.
all the best, little part-time psychopath, 8-)
XK
This ^^^^^ comment above, meant for thread above, @ Anon2. XK
DeleteSong of the Day:
ReplyDeleteGreen Day
TimeofYourLife
~Vegas
Bullseye...lol
ReplyDeleteLooks like another one here http://sociopath-community.com/posts/5681a55af6a1468f09a0c3c1
ReplyDeleteHas anyone seen the movie "Revolutionary Road"???
ReplyDeleteThat movie, has SO MANY AWESOME QUOTES IN IT!!!
~Vegas
I'm actually bipolar with psychotic features; but I do have borderline traits to my personality (unusual for a male I know; but it's true). I can definitely attest to this blog because my longest standing relationship was with an attractive older female who possessed sociopathic personality traits (yet wasn't a full blown sociopath and when she liked you...she REALLY liked you). She also had a sadist side to her while I'm more of a masochist.....so that worked out beautifully when it lasted. I hope to find another woman like that one of these days.
ReplyDeleteYou might something in the realm of batshitcrazy that resonates with you here: http://www.psychforums.com/borderline-personality/ Good luck!
ReplyDeletehaha Thanks for the recommendation. I'll check it out. I'm not as batshitcazy as I used to be though.....pot helps A LOT.
ReplyDeleteHow can you know that, when you are stoned? Might want to get an outside perspective on that. It's like drunks that think they can drive.
ReplyDeleteEveryone is different and I respect that, but weed is actually really beneficial for me personally. It helps to regulate my mood and it actually decreases my paranoid delusions (contrary to popular belief) and it helps me sleep as well (it's actually taken the place of a lot of my old psych meds). Yes, I do enjoy getting high, not gonna lie (when I smoke to get high I smoke in much greater quantities; I've mastered the art of controlling my dosage) but in the end it ultimately comes down to me managing my issues. To each their own though.
ReplyDeleteI technically qualify for BPD diagnosis. (Although I believe BPD is actually a form of CPTSD) both bpds and aspds grow up with narcs. This leaves them both with a decision they make in childhood. The apsd realizes his parents are using his emotions to manipulate him...that real love is not there. His emotions are his parents "key" to control and manipulate him. So the aspd simply hides the key. He buries it deep...so deeply in fact...he no longer can find it. HE DEPENDS SOLEY UPON HIMSELF. The BPD chooses another path...she GIVES the key to her parents. She tries to become what they want...to survive...and to win their love she destroys the OUTSIDE PART OF HERSELF...where the ASPD destroys the inside..the ASPD and the BPD both destroy an integral part of themselves to survive...hence the empty core...we both share. But the BPD has essentially given away her power...which makes her wildly unpredictable and somewhat dependent on the ASPDS in her life I am chronically attracted to aspds...because I sense on a very intuitive level they are the other half of me. The outer shell..i never developed. I want to crawl up inside them and hide in that shell. The ASPD who can no longer "feel" can handle all those wild emotions...and is VERY capable of helping me to regulate them. But this is pathological...because I essentially just give HIM my key. But ASPDS are intrinsically selfish...and this is never a good idea. But I believe the ASPDS love the BPDS as much as they are capable...because we are essentially two sides of the same coin. When I give my key to a sociopath...I essentially want to merge with him...and for us both to then take a little peice of each other...I want some of his hard outer shell...and I want him to take some of my wildly fluctuatung emotions....so we can then separate as two functioning people. It never works. The sociopath doesnt want to feel...and he doesnt want to give any of his shell away. But the BPD is just as incapable of true intimacy as the ASPD (we both grew up without it)..so this rarely destroys her...after all...ANY ASPD will do...she just needs the shell. The BPD wants security and loyalty...she doesnt WANT real intimacy. But the ASPD cannot give her security...because he sees commitment and fidelity as being CONTROLLED. And he just cant risk that. I hope this makes sense. I just dont date anymore.
ReplyDeleteAs an afterthought...without a lot of outside work...a BPD just cant date a normal man. I can sense...they just arent empty enough to CONTAIN me. And i need to be contained. Just like an ASPD can destroy people with his huge empty hole of nothingness...a bpd can destroy with her wild swirling ball of insides...But a BPD only destroys purposefully the ASPD who lets her down...and she is VERY capable of this..because she understands him in a way others dont. But she almost never destroys for sport...shes too busy managing her own ball of emotions.
ReplyDeleteThis is why BPDS are more receptive to treatment than Aspds. As bpds heal they experience less pain and more control. An aspd...in order to heal.. would have to first find the key way down deep...unlock the door and experience more pain...and LESS control. They just Cant do that. So the Aspd solution is so effective in managing pain...it eventually becomes a tomb.
ReplyDeleteThe ASPD needs to realize that there are many people out there who don't want to control them and would truly care for them if they were willing to put some trust in them. The trouble is that since the ASPD is already so insecure & unwilling to lose any "control" any flaw, any shortcoming, anything short of perfect in the other person would immediately raise red flags in them and likely turn them away. It takes a perfect combination for it to work. Where there's a will there's a way.
DeleteAnd...BPDS dont take things personally...any more than aspds do. We just have "emotional flashbacks" having realized the foolishness on a basic survival level of having given our "key" away in childhood...anything that remotely reminds us of those early traumatic experiences will throw us into a rage...its not directed at you...we just dont always realize this.
ReplyDeleteIf you lock yourself up and throw the key away, your abuser won and left you broken. If you don't think you have the strength within you to overcome the betrayal and be better than them, you've fallen for their trap. If you don't think you have help out there, you've fallen for their trap. If you don't think you deserve better than being a victim of betrayal, than you have no right to complain.
DeleteEveryone who is an ex is a "sociopath" to every borderline I have met.
ReplyDelete