I'm glad you're alive, and thank you, for this post!!! It is helpful.:) I knew some of the laws, recently learned some, and some are new.:) I need to read that book!!!
I don't think my husband has read that book, but he seems to know those laws.:) He did break the "Never Appear Too Perfect" law, though. I remember thinking "he seems too perfect" and how that was "suspect", but decided I was being too "cynical".:)
"Play on peoples' need to believe, to create a cult-like following. Give them something to believe in", made me think of the song "Something To Believe In", by "Young The Giant".:)
You might want to check out Illacertus' channel too. He has a video for each law and other related stuff.
"Animated book summaries focusing on strategy, power & seduction with a flair for history & how you can use the knowledge within today to further your own cause."
Observation of **-* I've noticed **-* will never respond to a concern I express, unless I ask him to do something in particular. If it's just a generalised expression of uncertainty, for example, it's as though he stocks it away as leverage or chalks it up as advantage.
OK.
A bit about me I attended a training course last week; the material included some interesting stuff about about motivation and default behaviours in the face of threat: ie, we escape, avoid or attack. Or we find opportunities (actually, I think this is a reframing of threat into opportunity.) The facilitator was fantastic; she said straight to my face that I attack threat. So this was an interesting revelation.
There's a new account director at work and we don't get along. She's scared as fuck of me and won't talk to me without others present, even if she needs information to do her job.
I find this completely appalling in someone of her pay grade. So the more she acts like this, the more I regard her as contemptible and the more I dominate her. I feel revulsed, like I despise her. I feel I could crush her. But I won't do that. I'm finding grounding in myself and I actually want to develop a good working relationship.
(Obviously, I'm thinking about this in order to break this cycle. There is a back story, but it's not important here.)
Drawing it together I'm wondering when psychopaths/ sociopaths talk of despising of weakness it isn't something similar to what I experience with this woman.
I wouldn't give up advantage to her. That would make no sense. She has been a threat to my project, to our hard-won relationship with the client, to a very productive relationship I developed with an interstate-inter-business group colleague. She's behaving as a threat to all of these important things. I will redress this situation, but it will be through reframing my idea of her as a threat and NOT by treating the threat.
As I've been slowly pointing out, I think psychopaths / sociopaths have a more acute perception of social threat because of their muted emotional life (in **-*'s words: "sometimes I get confused.") Viewed in this way, so much of the psychopathic mode makes perfect sense.
Your work sounds so exciting, I feel a thrill just reading your description of it.
ell you asked how this feels to me and this is a very interesting question. actually I don't really understand why so many people are always asking how you feel in ordinary situations (I met a therapist once and she always asked stuff like that).... I mean what should I feel? to me, these ordinary situations are just what they are and I don't really feel something about that. This is another example of the contrast I like to hear about. It shows me things are not set, our perceptions may force a reality upon us in a so compelling a way... others are not experiencing such things at all. It's difficult for me to describe the liberation this entails for me; like all experience is plastic and mouldable and we can create the lives we most want. I feel pure possibility in this disjunct between our modes.
do you really could describe/ do you really have (strong) feelings in such situations? It's a thrill to create with other people. I was thrilled reading your description of this. This is my mind at peace and operating to it's potential to produce something useful. It's a feeling of wholeness and richness and accomplishment, acceptance, connection. It's all colour and expansion in my mind. It tells me I want to stay in my current job because I have the freedom to engage in such activities as I choose; I have access to wonderful collaborators and opportunities to explore. All of this feels great to me.
hey north, what do you mean with "we can create the lives we most want"? do you mean it like you said or is it more like a metaphor (because then I didn't get it haha). it's so fascinating that you have so many feelings of thrill and richness and wholeness etc...and that you feel a thrill just by reading my (not very elaborated, abstract) descriptions when I don't, even if I experience it by myself.
hey mr hyde, "I dislike it when therapists ask, How did that make you feel? Heads up: Are you listening? Cause I just told you, by describing the circumstances, the act, in detail." I think it's more like they are asking because they are expecting you to have some feelings in these situations, not because they didn't listen. but well, I have no idea what they want to achieve with this...
"I think it's more like they are asking because they are expecting you to have some feelings in these situations, not because they didn't listen. but well, I have no idea what they want to achieve with this..."
Many have no idea, having abstracted primordial perceptions and feelings into ethereal/philosophical/mystical realms.
"expecting you to have some feelings in these situations"
1. Some people are benumbed. Can't speak about it.
2. If these cerebral therapists listened more to their patients with their bodies, they would feel, via their senses, what the patient felt/feels. Trauma creates a visceral response, in the victim and in the therapist who listens with their body. The body, like the nose, knows and does not forget.
I've borne witness to the traumas of many people. And I've come to conclude that all any good listener has to do is open their pores, absorb body language, voice tone and volume, etc., etc. There are so many cues.
Pressured speech, for example, shows a 'charge' exists regarding that topic or issue.
I'm saying that some therapists are sensually tone deaf, and that's a problem. You can't solve an existential problem without utilizing primal instincts. The corporeal body.
"(I met a therapist once and she always asked stuff like that).... I mean what should I feel? to me, these ordinary situations are just what they are and I don't really feel something about that. This is another example of the contrast I like to hear about. It shows me things are not set, our perceptions may force a reality upon us in a so compelling a way... others are not experiencing such things at all."
I dislike it when therapists ask, How did that make you feel? Heads up: Are you listening? Cause I just told you, by describing the circumstances, the act, in detail.
Our perception, however, does create its own magnetic field of honing influence -- usually it's a distortion based on the weakest, most vulnerable and invisible parts of our wounded ego. And you're right, liberation comes from adaptation of one's personal narrative to reality.
"Our perception, however, does create its own magnetic field of honing influence -- usually it's a distortion based on the weakest, most vulnerable and invisible parts of our wounded ego."
Thankyou, Mr Hyde, that is most illuminating and I shall ponder it further. Those most hidden parts of my nature are being drawn currently, their wild voices clamouring then falling silent.
They say illumination comes by brining the hidden things to light: I think we see then the monsters in ourselves and in others... and the monsters are just frightened children.
"They say illumination comes by brining the hidden things to light: I think we see then the monsters in ourselves and in others... and the monsters are just frightened children."
Ha! So true. Every living thing with a brain is aware of and frightened of something. Incarnate sentient flesh always quivers while tonguing its own weak spots.
It's nice to talk to you.
Ditto. I enjoy reading your thoughtful posts.
Mr. Hyde
My own journey has involved head-to-head clashes with my wounded ego; facing my inner monsters has been delightfully humbling, liberating and thus empowering: I am the good, bad and the ugly rolled into one. Laughing at myself, at my own narcissistic-paranoid quirks and quarks, pain and joy, fuels my will to be what I choose, when I choose. I like to remind myself that I'm forging my own perspective reality, minute by minute, always striving to step outside of my own bombastic opinions, ideas, etc. Cultivating a meta-viewpoint, a detached observer of my own processes as they unfold in real-time is often highly amusing.
I am awe-struck by the absurdity, enlightened and debased passion, of the human condition.
" Every living thing with a brain is aware of and frightened of something"
Alan Watts (and others) talk about the conscious mind as a radar, a trouble-spotter. Excellent for keeping us alive; not the best thing to identify with, though!
Thus the advantage of "cultivating a meta-viewpoint" - wonderfully worded, Mr Hyde. *curtsie of appreciation*
Do y'all think therapy could help callousness and remorselessness? By that I mean actually help the person visiting, not help the person pretend on account of those around them.
North, Not sure what goes on behind the callousness and remorselessness, I never really thought about it, it's pretty much always been there. What exactly do you mean by what is the experience like? Sorta like I can't be bothered enough to budge (if that's what you mean)
Benefits would be like, would therapy actually get rid of it? Not sure what you mean by pain points...
A callous forms to protect the skin from repetitive trauma/exposure. A callous is hard and blunts the feel of touch. A possible counterpoint to callousness could be physical, touch.
Maybe start with a massage. Something to soften the armour. ;-)
I was asking those questions really to understand more about why you asked your question. I have some thoughts but it's better to understand more before I go spouting off an essay.
Mr Hyde, your tenderness is lovely. **-* let me massage him once.
Some of his remorselessness is to avoid blame, I think. He must dig his heels in. Even a solution focus implies (I think, at least in his mind) some culpability. And since culpability puts him in a weak position, he simply cannot choose anything other than stubbornness.
Tii: "Do y'all think therapy could help callousness and remorselessness? By that I mean actually help the person visiting, not help the person pretend on account of those around them."
Therapy makes one very self-aware about it. Then one can explicitly choose to mitigate in each context; or not. Successful therapy gives people choices they did not have before.
North, My parents think I'm mentally sick and that's the reason why I have no guilt and show little emotions or attachment. It's ausing more friction and my dad is trying to get me to see a shrink in order to "cure" it. I personally don't think it'd cure anything.
K, So it'd pretty much help me know how and when to fake it... I can do that myself. Point is, I'm not trynna fake anything.
Tii, Not what I meant. Eg: You can either be callous or sympathetic to someone's misfortunes. You can choose to offer genuine sympathy if it's rationally deserved eg. typhoon victims. You have your specific style of attachment. It's a genuine one. Faking another style is ultimately very damaging to yourself, and somewhat pointless long-term. If people don't get what they require from you, that's their problem. As long as you are cheerful, pleasant and polite, and not malevolent or devious, that is more than adequate 'to make friends and influence people' in the real world. Your Dad is unrealistic in his expectations. Move away. There are many places for a small house and vegetable garden. LOL. Your dad will get used to your strengths, eventually.
"I personally don't think it'd cure anything." K@ is right in saying self awareness opens up options; this is the case for everyone.
Learning to recognise what you want / need is really useful, as is learning how your behavioural patterns impact on your achievement of those things. In other words, our behavioural patterns are often self-defeating but they can often be improved. The human brain is quite plastic and it is as they eastern mystics say: enlightenment comes by bringing the dark (or hidden) things within in us to the light. We learn and change very quickly when that happens - maybe not our foundational patterns but certainly we do better at distinguishing between opportunity and threat.
K, North Yah, I get what you mean but, in my situation I don't think it could do much except tell me how to make them happier (which I already know but, that's a lot of pretending and a hassle) which is wasting my time. They're getting pissed that I don't express enough excitement or happiness when they do something for me or give me something (I usually just give a cheerful thank you for a second), that I'm not cuddly, or say I love you enough, and that I never seem to worry or feel guilty. I'm hearing about it everyday and honestly I'm getting hella tired of the nagging. Like K mentioned, I've been planning on moving out soon, I figure less exposure would help them forget my "flaws", then I can just do my shit and they'll be satisfied when I succeed. They're always trying to guilt trip me too, which to me is like giving a dog a brick everytime he does something wrong... irrelevant.
I prefer to move away from terms like "flaws", "strengths" and "weaknesses"... certainly it's tough if your parents are using that sort of polarising language. Good is always contextual.
Personally, I feel **-* is hyper-sensitive to blame; he avoids it at all costs, even when I'm not blaming him. I'm hypersensitive to other stuff. It's easier to suspend blanket judgement on these patterns and instead look at how to be more effective for particular purposes. Seeing other ways of operating can open our eyes to opportunities for ourselves, too, I.e. Perceiving contrast is another way to cultivate self awareness. I guess I recommend keeping a genuinely open mind to possibilities not just for acting but for refinement. We can always learn.
Tii, "They're getting pissed that I don't express enough excitement or happiness when they do something for me or give me something ..... that I'm not cuddly, or say I love you enough, and that I never seem to worry or feel guilty."
Yep; definitely time to move out. Sounds like a clear case of: "You're just not what we expected, or hoped for, son.." to which the only answer should be: "Tough shit. I'm gone. Bye, y'all."
I think North should hold wine glasses while her boyfriend naws and jaws on her cunt. Now there's a fucken ideA. You are not allowed to drop them. Hold them high in the air till you cum haRd.
Manipulation is a sign of weakness. If you're really a powerful man you won't resort to being sneaky and underhanded. That's weasel shit. Benito Mussolini gained power through living dangerously, not manipulation. My aunt took in this bum off the street and he uses manipulation non stop, fake smiling to increase trust, flattery, the whole mr nice guy act. She fell for it because she's as dumb as a brick but I see right through the bum. He avoids me cause I see what a scared beta low life he is. I dont need to smile shake hands or kiss babies I grab people by the scruff of the neck and overpower them into my superior vision.
My point is alpha males don't hide their emotions, they're up front snd blunt. Hiding your emotions and opinions is sneaky and feminine. I'm the loudest guy in the room and anyone who has a problem with that will get slapped
Would you define still living with your aunt as "manly success"? That homeless piece of shit still got more success with your aunt than you, therefore, he was more "powerful". Excellent job there, alpha! You even overpowered the bum with your... Oh, that's right, you didn't. You failed, and the bum is still living with you. Oh my god, the mighty Il Douche lives with a bum? Lame!
Oh, and you should change your name. From now on, you shall be known as Adam Il Douche.
I'm the white blood cells of my house, the immunity. If it weren't for me, my aunt would have occupy wall street banging up in her toilet. She and the bum suit each other cause she's a degenerate too. I'll get him out one way or the other. If he was sane and accomplished I wouldn't mind him, but he smokes, talks about sex and opens my fridge. He's not remarkable in any way and I hate unremarkable people. If he was doing his crass behavior in some dingy pub, I wouldn't care, but hes doing it in my face. When you're in the presence of greatness, clean yourself up or be punished.
You just talk and talk, like a little pussy. You've done nothing to stop the hobo from invading of your house. And now he stinks up your house and eats your food. Oops, I meant your aunt's house and food. I would've shot that hobo before I let him anywhere near my door. I mean, what real man lets a hobo stink up his his home and steal his food? Not me, ever, that's for certain. You failed.
A great white blood cell you are (not). If house AIDS infected your house, it would've died of starvation.
I don't get it Adam. It's just an hour and a half video of death and people dying, it gets boring after less than 5 minutes. What's do you find so interesting about that flick?
You don't watch gore videos all days, pretending they make you tough or something, to compensate for not having any balls, now do you Adam?
I think my youngest sister might well be sociopathic. Of all the children, she alone handled our father. Playing netball as a child, she would walk to the side of the court, clamp her hand on his mouth and yell "shut up Dad!" The rest of us cowered inside.
I don't know her well enough - there's no bonding between us. But there are plenty of little indicators.
I learned the other day at my college about freud. The id, superego and ego. It was a profound moment in my life because I realized I only act on the id. I have absolutely no superego or "reality principal". All I want to do is eat sleep and have sex with hot women there's not much more to me other than primal needs. Does that make me better than you? Yes it does
Do you want to be an isolated neuron that only takes care of himself? Or do you want to cooperate to be part of a better brain? Both are valid. 3rd world vs 1st world type of thing...
Or maybe you want to be a cancer cell.Assuming you influence enough people around to behave like you. Cancer cells are very powerful.
Oh yeah, that's real truth, right there! Let's ignore, for a moment, Damaged's (true and spot-on) assertion that those are the 3 laws of being a crybaby.
If power's an illusion, and it's not real, then why bother gaining any power at all, right?
I mean, if power's not real, then why make friends and acquaintances at all, since the power you gained by making connections is an illusion, and consequently, would not have any real-life effect at all?
Why gain financial power, since it too is an illusion, being a form of power, which means money's not real, and anything you paid for is not real?
Yeah... If that's the case, then I guess I prefer the illusion. Things like cars, a house, hobbies, privileges, all gained by gaining and using various forms of power, must all be fake then.
Oh, and since power is an illusion, perhaps you can break into the White House without consequences, since any power the president has is an illusion, therefore not real? Maybe you can go on a killing spree, since the enormous power the government might have is an illusion, therefore they'd be powerless to stop you, and you'll get of scot-free?
I eagerly await the results. Don't let us down! And remember, when you're being gunned down, imprisoned, prison-raped, and on death row, just keep this in mind: power is an illusion, the government does not have any power or control over you. The government must be deluded to think they can control your life and kill you. Oh, and that also means you don't have to pay any taxes. Right. It's all fake.
Say, would you mind sending me all your money? Financial power is an illusion, after all, and it's not real. You obviously do not have a need for money, what with money being a form of power, and thus, by your own admission, an illusion, therefore it's not real. We would then be equally financially powerful, as in, you and I would both be financially powerless, as power is an illusion. Right? Right?
hey guys, I think this anon didn't think of this kind of power (like the government etc). I guess he rather thought of some kind of general power ... for instance you can't control if you are getting ill or developing cancer etc.... there are just to many variables in life you can't control or predict and to think you have the power to do so, would be an illusion.
Well, power itself isn't an illusion. But you can control how much you can possess, and thinking you cannot have a degree of control over it is an illusion.
By not smoking, for example, you drastically reduce the risk of getting lung cancer. You control the chance of getting cancer. Doesn't mean you won't get it, but you can control it. And if you get it, you can still control it, as in, getting chemotherapy.
Again, doesn't mean it will work. But the difference is obvious - by not trying to control the chance, in this case your physical health, you can predict that you are more likely to get cancer. Also, by extension, by letting yourself go and not taking care of yourself, such as by getting morbidly obese and not looking after your hygiene, you can predict that your health, and your life expectancy, will in all likelyhood decrease. To think otherwise would be an illusion.
But the article is pertaining to the 48 Laws of Power, which is about that kind of power, so in all probability, this anon did indeed think of this kind of power. That's the theme of this blog post, and if the anon meant otherwise, the anon should have specified that the comment pertains to "general power", as you put it.
hey socioempath, well... yeah being a non smoker will reduce your likelyhood to develop cancer... but this still don't give you any control... this was only one exampe... think about some other illness, genetic ones or parkinsson or alzheimers disease... you can't really prevent them. you actually can't even fight them because we know almost nothing about these diseases... it's like you are driving on a big highway and you can't change the direction. only sometimes you are able to change the lane which gives you a sense of power, which is actually irrelevant and hence an illusion. and come on this part about hygene is ridiculous... but just for your information: how do you know that keeping a good hygene is increasing your life expectancy? probably because of some "scientific insights", but you know, this could be wrong conclusions. the past is full of wrong believes and conclusions (I think of the scientific ones) and who knows which things we believe and think we know now are true and which are not? (and I think understandinv is the essential of having power, but we don't even understand enough of this word so how could we have power?) ahhh... I didn't watch the video so probably you are right and this anon thought of the kind of power you wrote about... however I don't care
However, I still think that not attempting to control it is bad. If you've got a genetic disease, let's say Chron's disease, not leading a healthy lifestyle, in this example by changing your diet to a more healthy one, will lead to a faster demise. So yeah, while there might be certain uncontrollable situations (which might get controllable in the future), I think they can be controlled to a degree, and thus, you can at least control the "direction".
You have valid points though. Let's agree to disagree then. :)
hey socioempath, well I never said you shouldn't try to gain as much control as possible... I think everyone is doing this... it's human I guess... actually also animals do this... so well I understand your thoughts. haha yes I agree to disagree then haha :)
Yeah :) ... Well, I'm bored, so I got a great example! It's not based on anything, the numbers are randomly pulled from my head. Hope you enjoy!
Let's say that, by smoking you have a 90% chance to get cancer. By not smoking you reduce that chance to... 25%. I'd say you got control over getting cancer to a degree. Now, if by exercising and dieting you reduce that chance further to, let's say 5%, well, I'd say you got great control over it.
hey, yes it's a good example! well you say this is giving you control over it, I say it's only a sense of control. what if exercising and dieting the way it reduces the likelyhood to get cancer, increases the likelyhood to develop other diseases? maybe nobody made the connection so far and in the future the people are laughing, that our generation was so stupid. well, take care, too :) ...and I would advise you to not smoke haha :P
Hehehehehe, maybe. But oh well, 5% is better than 90%. Laughing is healthy, so you're not only making yourself healthy, you're making future generations healthy! :D
Socioempath, I have three relatives that died in more pain then they were and significantly weaker than they were before chemo. They died just as soon as it was predicted they would without it... guess how much one session costs.
Ve, I'll give you three songs. Four Non Blondes- What's Up Jefferson Airplanes- Go Ask Alice Protoje- Protection
So, what you are saying, is that not only did chemo make it worse, but also that all that money that could've gone to drinking went to chemo, so you're better off with no chemo anyways?
But what about those who chemo did help, and increased their life expectancy, and eradicated cancer for good?
What if the prediction was off, and they would've died before predicted?
I see your point, but data points based on three people are not enough to reach a conclusion.
Based on your data, you either live with chemo as long as without chemo, but there is a possibility you'll live longer.
hey tii, my parents and 2 friends had cancer and chemo and now they all overcame it... so it always depends... oh and I'm very sorry for the money issue you have in america... fortunately everyone has a health insurance in germany :P
I loved all 3!!! I was only familiar with the 1st song, so it was cool "getting new music"-thank you.:)
T & Socioempath-
I know that there are a lot of Socios & NT's working together to find the cure for cancer, and I know they will find it-the sooner the better, for all of us...
hey ve, no didn't watch the movie yet. yeah I think she is pretty good and definitely incomparable with your two presidential candidates haha... oh and I'm so excited for the season final of america haha
hey tii, that's pretty cool :) so you will come here for your studies... what do you want to study? ...or is it just to escape trump... or hillary haha :P
Alice, Lol you think you're kidding, I've been telling people I wish Trump would become president just for to see how that would work out (come on everyone's a bit curious). They usually respond with something along the lines of "so you're willing to put your life in danger and watch the country go to shit for entertainment", to which I let them know that Hillary isn't much better and that anyways I'll be keeping in touch long distance. But yah its mostly for my studies, and for a chance to leave Florida, since I have family their and pick up a few scraps of German it shouldn't be to hard.
hey tii, I'm not kidding haha... honestly I also find it kind of amusing if trump will be president... I could safely watch america burn from a big distance (having a good health insurance and free university etc)... and it would be none of my business haha :) and it would be really interesting if trump could achieve his goals... like the wall between mexico and usa haha... but well... on the other side for germany, hillary would be the better choice. but since I'm politically not really interested I actually don't care... you shouldn't underestimate the german language haha but if you have german relatives I'm sure they can help you with this
Oh Jesus...there socios go again...hurting someone is power.
Hurting someone is not hard, its just immoral, not tgat immoral means anything to socios.
Power itself is an illusion. Control is an illusion. One cancer diagnosis, one wrong turn, one drunk driver, (here is an important one for socios) one court conviction for hurting someone, and all that power illusion is over.
Then that means that the power was transferred away from you.
If you got cancer, the cancer used the natural abilities of cancer cells to take the power away from your natural reserves, body cells, and transferred it to itself, by turning those cells into cancer cells.
A drunk driver used its power of choice to choose to drive drunk, and that choice has a greater chance of causing and accident, with significant consequences.
If you are convicted, the state used its power and control to take the power away from you and control you, because you risked your power to try to gain more of it, but the risk led to the state convicting you.
What, somebody used and abused you, you called him a socio, and now you're on some holy crusade to teach all the socios some manners?
I don't give a shit you got hurt by a somebody who might be a socio. Tough shit, I'll still offend you, because you are glaringly wrong. Get a fuckin' grip, you annoying crybaby! You're an adult, for chrissake!
Never saw someone write so much and say so little. Calm down, lol. If you're so confident you have power, tell your associates you're a socio, remove the mask, come out, be a man.
You'll never do it, ever, cause without it you are nothing, weak, insecure, insignificant, nonentity. A fake. And this fakeness you somehow twist in your head as some delusion of power. Its laughable
Oh, you answered so soon? Looks like I hit a nerve. Oh goody! And I think I see a projection! It's funtime! :D
You have allowed yourself to get used and abused, because you were weak and made stupid decisions which led to you getting used and abused. It wouldn't have happened if you were strong and had some common sense. The warning signs were there, you ignored them, because you were blinded by your ego, and now it's not your fault.
You deserved it for being a weak idiot.
I think you might be suffering from NPD.
P. S. Yes, I told somebody I am what I am, and nothing happened. I'd say, my power increased after that act. So, you see, you were yet again wrong. What now?
I just love messing with socios, so fragile when unmasked. Dont even have to feel bad about it, how could you for someone with an emotional range of a reptile.
Go hide behind the mask big boy, cause your insecure azz wouldn't last in the real world 5 min without it.
I'm sorry, what? Messin' with socios? Oh, I get it now. You were messin' with me. Lol, what? That was the lamest "messin'" I've ever witnessed. You couldn't mess with an incontinent senile old lady, she'd take you for all you've got. That was pathetic.
Awwwww, did I hurt your feeeeewings? What, you're gonna cry now? :'(
Bitch puh-lease! I'm so secure Fort Knox asked me to use my body to store gold! You've got more holes than swiss cheese!
What do you call a mask anon? I wouldn't say socios hide behind a mask. It merely looks like a mask to you because you do not comprehend the thought process and so it appears to unpredictable to be the truth. It is in their nature, it is who they are. Half the time the pretense is to entertain empaths or to keep from offending or hurting them. The other half is to gain the upper hand. Calling out socios for the latter would be hypocritical, everyone does it. How come you talk to your people you have to deal with, to superiors or teachers, and sometimes even parents politely and properly to their face, then mutter curses under your breath? Isn't that a mask you use for you advantage? Why do you smile at those you hate, then talk shit when they turn around? I'd say socio's are even more genuine, the lack of emotions erases the need to completely lie about how we feel towards others, instead we bend it so they hear and see what they want.
s-empath, that was funny, more secure than Fort Knox, whatever floats your boat. One thing a sociopath is not is secure, even those few who are considered high functioning have thin skin and can be baited with ease once exposed. But who gives a damn, you're really boring me.
Tii, interesting that socios view yourselves as genuine when your whole existence is based on being pathological liars. So pardon me if I dont believe for a sec that anything about a socio is genuine. Nor do I want to dicuss that cause we'll go in circles citing examples, waste of time. But I would not mind exploring one aspect of socios a bit.
I'm talking about the "fearless" part, understanding that aspect directly from a socio. To start I'll let you know I was in one of the services and have seen combat. When going down an alley or crossing an exposed hot area there was definite fear there, but I remember supressing it, controlling it. It was in a background like a companion, but it did not affect my actions. And I'm not talking about actual fighting where adrenaline and actions completely trump fear.
As honestly as you can, with nothing to gain or lose by answering, do socios have fear? Or do you have it and it does not affect you (similar to not being affected by empathy)? Or do they have it but can surpress it at will like myself? I'd love to hear an expanded (if possible honest) answer from the horses mouth.
s-empath, lets forget the games for a second, no power plays, no baits, no upper hands, intimidation, fake friendliness, pitch one person against the other, start with a new complete blank slate.
Nothing to gain or to lose. And a part of why Jamie created this website.
I dont see the world as you see it, as you dont see the world as I see it. You think my empathy is a waste cause the world is out to get you so you get it first, I think by a lack of empathy you are missing what is most human about humanity. Big deal...opinions.
I'm just curious to understand the "fearlessness" part from your point of view. As stated bfeore, in my case its not an absence of fear, just management of it (before any action is taken).
Just curious to know what happens in your cases. Is it there? Is it processed differntly? Is it just managed differently? This should be a good topic for this website anyway.
Okay. I guess it's fair enough. I can understand the desire to learn. And I guess I'm bored. I'll try to keep it as honest as possible. :)
Personally, I don't see empathy as a waste in general. Yes, to me, being "empathyless" is preferable.
However, I acknowledge that the world needs empathy. And that the proportion of no-empathy individuals to "neurotypicals" is just about right.
If everybody were to be as selfish as me, well... I won't go into too much details here, as I'm sure you can pretty much imagine what would that entail, but I can assure you that I prefer the ratio as it is.
I also understand that "neurotypicals" have a real need for human connection, otherwise their mental health deteoriates. I won't pretend to understand why this is so, but it's just as it is. I have no problem being a friend and all that, but, I don't have a need for anybody, I'm perfectly content to be left alone.
I don't think I am missing out on anything. On the contrary, if I were to be offered a choice to have all the emotions (prosocial ones), I would not hesitate to reject it. I would even savagely fight the attempt to turn me "normal". I see it as an advantage, but I don't take advantage unless there's no other way, as it would be a waste of my time and it would create unneccessary enemies (I don't count "tiny" manipulations that everybody does as taking advantage). If we can both profit, then great, as long as I profit, I don't care if you do. If my profit would absolutely require that you profit more than me, then I'm perfectly happy to let you take the larger profit, as I still profited, which is better than no profit.
As for fear... Well, I have noticed there is "something", maybe anxiety (I'm not sure), before the action begins, but only if the situation is unknown to me; once it is experienced to an extent, or in other words expected, there's no such sensation I've noticed. Once the action starts however, there is a eery calm, a certain sense of purpose perhaps, no fear - I find it an intensely enjoyable experience. I don't "manage" it, per se, it just is, it's all automatic.
As for fear I can't say I'm sure. I've never been put in any situation as extreme as war, so I wouldn't know. In my daily life I can't say I have any phobias. In situations where people usually want to back away I usually feel a certain thrill along with an uncertainty that it's the right choice (I wouldn't call it anxiety). After that it's more of a matter of is it worth it and what are the odds that I will return alright. Then again like I've said I haven't really been put in any crazy situations, just a few where my peers have wanted to back up from and I've on the other hand felt some sort of attraction towards.
Guys (or gals), I appreciate your feedback. Sounds like fear in certain situations is read by a socio brain as focus. Interesting. Evolution or devolution (depending which point you're looking it from) is amazing.
Q to anyone who cares to answer, regarding the law which says that you should never trust your friends.
Do you think that's true that we shouldn't trust anyone?
I can't live like that. So I guess I'm just screwed.
As well, whilst many of the laws are common sense, it seems to me that if I lived my social life as Greene recommends, my whole life would be nothing more than a calculated transaction. Not my cuppa tea.
hey mr. hyde, I didn't watch the video, but well, I think it's a risk to trust anyone, especially your friends. because if you are close to someone and you fully trust him, you are much more vulnerable. so if you friend betrays you (or harm or disappoint you in another way) I guess you are not prepared to this. so it hits you much harder as if a stranger or someone you don't like do this because you kind of expect them to betray you. anyway I don't want to say not to trust your friends, I just want to say it's a risk (but no risk, no fun haha)... I do trust my friends (to a certain degree... for instance I would never entrust my life to them if there is another way) but I always have in mind that they may betray or disappoint me and I'm prepared to that...
As Alice says, I do trust my friends to a certain degree. Very often they "come through" when I'm in a bind. They're fun to hang out with but I don't expect much from them (even though many have prove they'll go far for me), while I do expect the worst of them. I think it's a way to keep my guards up.
It's true -- being betrayed by a friend is the worst. I can think of three betrayals that nearly did me in. But, my default is to trust, so it's taken a lot of effort to at least pause and probe a little before handing over the keys to my car. :-D
These days I tend to trust my instincts more than my thinking or heart, because I have this awful habit of of making excuses for bad behaviour, I.e. they had a bad childhood, or whatever.
I do have a couple friends who I'd trust with my life.
hey mr. hyde, seems like you are a really genuine person. well I think my default is to rather mistrust than trust someone, but I don't know if this is because of who I am or because of bad experiences... anyway I don't care and don't want do change anything... I think to trust you friends is much easier and less effort because if they are good friends the likelyhood they'll betray you is quite small (mistrusting can be really exhausting I guess)... so you trust your instincts more than you rational thoughts?
My instincts work in tandem with mental stuff. I think of my body as a kind of antenna -- I get physical sensations listening to people talk, watching them. Those sensations immediately spark images and/or intuitions that prompt insights into what's going on emotionally/psychologically in the mind of the speaker. I'm not saying I'm psychic, but rather highly intuitive and sensual. The problem for me is that I've often ignored those signals, for various emo reasons. One is that it seems to me that most people are suffering on some level, and then I filter everything through that perception. If there's one thing in this world I despise it's suffering. I want to abolish it, and sometimes that makes me act rash and stupid.
I'm getting better, though, working hard on becoming more detached. I'm enjoying cultivating a bit more ice in my veins. ;)
I trust my friends with the knowledge of their limitations fully in mind; I wouldn't dream of asking for certain things from some of them, things that I know would be difficult, if not impossible for them to give.
My best friend is emotionally very shallow, loathes any sort of drama, is snarky and pragmatic toward people who cry, often very cold to those in need, the homeless, etc. Yet, she has always been there for me in times of crisis, though not on an emotional level, which actually I very much appreciate. We've been friends for over 40 years.
One thing socioempath said earlier got me thinking again about the NT/socio ratio in the population: I read an article (I'll try to find it) that quoted that there are 70 million socios worldwide.
Which begs a very blunt question: How do you build cooperative bridges between a predator and its prey?? Cause I sure don't believe that genocide or brain implants are viable solutions. I'm a bridge builder.
I also think that socio-traits have already been thoroughly embraced by Western countries and glorified in the media, via corporatized capitalist culture. Needless to say, the result of "greed is good, me-first-and-always" so far is constant war, toxic products, climate change and the 6th mass extinction of life on earth.
So, I guess I'm finagling another question here . . . how do we, NTs and socios and every other neural type, proceed? You see, I don't mind not being #1, being rich or powerful and I don't care if you are, if you want that role. (I like being invisible.) I also don't care that socios don't feel emotions like I do -- it would be a horrible world if everyone thought and felt the same. All I care about is that other living creatures aren't being exploited to death for profit, etc.
Anyway, I'm not being very articulate (no sleep for days) so I'd better quit for now.
Socios don't all see NTs as preys, if they did they would be a lot more visible. I believe most socios try to fit in first (there's a negative connotation that come with the word), and I pretty sure the bigger majority haven't realized they are. Sure they often appear cold and calculating but, its not always to ruin others life, merely to get further ahead. In some cases there are some people hurt in the process. I for one know I don't really want to go out of my way to hurt people, most of the time it happens is because I can't help but flirt with others or try to make them fall for me (it's my nature). Obviously if you're a NT or more sensitive it hurts when you find out the feeling isn't reciprocated, especially if it's been a while or you were friends before. Can you really call me evil, or people I flirt with prey? Btw I usually let them know I'm not big on relationships, have no intentions of going out, and I'm not a falling in love type guy, somehow that just fuels the fire. It's like everyone wants to and think they'll be the one to break the cycle.
Sure their are some with bad intentions but, that's for every type of person. That bridge I believe would be educating others on the socios mind and first removing the negative connotation that comes with it. I remember as a kid I told this girl I had an antisocial personality, by that I just meant I'm not big on going out and socializing, I didn't know the term referred to ASPD nor did I think I was one. She quickly got scared of me and told our mutual friends she was kind of afraid of being alone with me... I suppose my cold personality help with it but you see what I mean.
The kind of hurt you're describing -- flirting and not be able to commit -- is, I think, rather normal. Certainly not evil by any stretch. You're right that people like to think they can be the one to break the cycle; that drive to save or change someone is actually pretty narcissistic, ask me. (I used to believe I could save others by the sheer power of my love -- talk about delusions!)
I don't worry about saving anyone anymore, except my kids, should they ever need saving. My primary focus has changed to saving the planet. haha. If only. ;)
I agree with you that education is vital; people always fear what they don't understand. It's not a crime to not feel things the way others do, and I do wish NTs would stop with the mob mentality, because it horrifies me, too. It's also true that NTs and/or empaths are often irrational, ruled by their feelings, which is dangerous. Emo folk can be just as cruel and greedy as a psychopath. They simply justify it differently, i.e., with god or making a profit or whatever.
I guess what disturbs me is that we as a culture have embraced what I see as a suicidal, rapacious value system that's killing the ecology on which we all depend. That pisses me off. I love life's diversity and thrive on it.
As for you being a lifelong flirt -- the world is more colorful with charmers in it. Even if you hurt people's feelings by saying things they don't want to hear, so what? Doesn't everyone feel hurt at one time or another? That kind of 'suffering' doesn't faze me much. As a counselor of 30 years, I've heard countless tales of woe: Sometimes it's stunning how little it takes for some folk to feel wronged. It would be funny if wasn't for the fact that they're in pain about it. Actually, sometimes even their pain seems absurd. Sad to say but true. Or maybe I've just witnessed so much pain over the years that I've grown more numb to it. Hard to say.
hey mr. hyde and hey tii, very interesting posts you wrote. I really enyojed reading them. "All I care about is that other living creatures aren't being exploited to death for profit, etc. " I believe as long as humans exist, this exploitation will never stop... and people, who are not hit by this, will never be able to stop the exploitation of the other people. even if they do have a lot of empathy (for instance for their familiy and friends etc.), they usually don't have the same amount of empathy for strangers. this is a defense mechanism and entirely normal, so they are not destroyed by their feelings because life is cruel. I read this in a publication somewhere (maybe I'll find it again)...
I imagine that you are quite right about most humans always seeking to exploit others. Not everyone is built that way, however. Some people simply 'profit' from Being Alive, soaking up the beauty of life. I'm not focused on material gains, don't want much of anything really, except the freedom to dream, roam and think.
I think evolution presents a real possibility that we can change our attitudes and behaviors, if only we weren't so afraid of being wrong, of feeling stupid, of seeing our faults and being judged. After all, once upon a time we thought we could treat our pets or other animals any way we want. Now it's illegal to harm your pet, and in some states it's now illegal to spank your kids. We've come to recognize that animals suffer pain just as much as we do, that smacking kids to 'discipline' them can psychologically damage them. One South American country, Bolivia?, has even granted 'rights' to nature. These ideas were unthinkable not that long ago. So, I do have a shallow sense of hope, which I cling to with all my might. ;) Plus, there's a bit of a warrior in me when it comes to standing up for stuff I care about, so you can bet I'll be actively fighting to save as many species as I can until my dying breath.
Way I see it, the world is now so small and ecologically enmeshed and the environment so degraded that soon we'll either evolve or be faced with living in hell. We can't afford to continue to kill/exploit every organism for our own pleasure or gain. Our consumption of earth's resources is not sustainable and I would hope that socios agree that humans need to learn to restrain their greed, etc.
If animals can make friends outside their own species I don't see why socios and NTs can't also find a win-win way to co-exist. Because to my mind it doesn't matter at all that you don't experience emotions the way I do. I think it's stupid and illogical to demonize people just because they 'feel' or don't feel this way or that.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts everyone. I do appreciate your candidness.
hey mr. hyde, I think you are right, society can change to a certain degree but I don't think exploitation will entirely stop (humans are too selfish)... anyway, I appreciate change and I also think we have to change our attitude towards the environment drastically. I also want to fight for this and I think the best way is to develope new techologies... so I'm not the kind of person who is helping homeless people or poor kids... honestly I don't care for these people and I think they are irrelevant to the whole thing. so I guess helping these people would not change anything. research on the other side, can have a big impact on everything and hence can promote change. I guess socios are in some fields kind of more suitable to promote change because they don't have this emotional restriction... for instance they wouldn't hesitate to make some sacrifice if this would help. like genetic engineering on human embryos..
FIRST!!!
ReplyDeleteWOO-HOO!!!
~Vegas
M.E.-
DeleteI'm glad you're alive, and thank you, for this post!!! It is helpful.:) I knew some of the laws, recently learned some, and some are new.:) I need to read that book!!!
I don't think my husband has read that book, but he seems to know those laws.:) He did break the "Never Appear Too Perfect" law, though. I remember thinking "he seems too perfect" and how that was "suspect", but decided I was being too "cynical".:)
HA!!! LOL!!!
~Vegas
The Law:
Delete"Play on peoples' need to believe, to create a cult-like following. Give them something to believe in", made me think of the song "Something To Believe In", by "Young The Giant".:)
~Vegas
Hey, M.E.-
DeleteI like your name.:)
I only have time for a quick pop-in to say "Hey", but I'll be back.:)
~Vegas
M.E.-
DeletePS-The same time I was commenting that I like your name, Mr. Hyde was commenting that he likes Alice's name.:)
~Vegas
You might want to check out Illacertus' channel too. He has a video for each law and other related stuff.
ReplyDelete"Animated book summaries focusing on strategy, power & seduction with a flair for history & how you can use the knowledge within today to further your own cause."
https://www.youtube.com/Illacertus
Hey Damaged-
ReplyDeleteThank you, for your "funnies".:) I got behind on my responses, and then wasn't sure, if they would show up.
Thanks for your comment above, as well-I'll have to check that out!!!
You always have great "tips".:)
~Vegas
Vegas, is your retarded style of writing being an attempt to come off as a sort of sociopath-in-disguise?
ReplyDeleteIf so, you fail — it's just retarded
They're sneaky and they're loopy
ReplyDeleteThey talk the woogie-boogie
They're creepy and they're kooky
The Pathic Family
They're gamblers and dissemblers
They con the weak, unwary
They're wily and they're spooky
The Pathic Family
Happy Halloween Sociopathworld!
All's well in hell. Least in my hood. Have a great fright night and avoid the clowns. ;)
Mr. Hyde
Hi all,
ReplyDeleteI'm keen for your thoughts.
Observation of **-*
I've noticed **-* will never respond to a concern I express, unless I ask him to do something in particular. If it's just a generalised expression of uncertainty, for example, it's as though he stocks it away as leverage or chalks it up as advantage.
OK.
A bit about me
I attended a training course last week; the material included some interesting stuff about about motivation and default behaviours in the face of threat: ie, we escape, avoid or attack. Or we find opportunities (actually, I think this is a reframing of threat into opportunity.) The facilitator was fantastic; she said straight to my face that I attack threat. So this was an interesting revelation.
There's a new account director at work and we don't get along. She's scared as fuck of me and won't talk to me without others present, even if she needs information to do her job.
I find this completely appalling in someone of her pay grade. So the more she acts like this, the more I regard her as contemptible and the more I dominate her. I feel revulsed, like I despise her. I feel I could crush her. But I won't do that. I'm finding grounding in myself and I actually want to develop a good working relationship.
(Obviously, I'm thinking about this in order to break this cycle. There is a back story, but it's not important here.)
Drawing it together
I'm wondering when psychopaths/ sociopaths talk of despising of weakness it isn't something similar to what I experience with this woman.
I wouldn't give up advantage to her. That would make no sense. She has been a threat to my project, to our hard-won relationship with the client, to a very productive relationship I developed with an interstate-inter-business group colleague. She's behaving as a threat to all of these important things. I will redress this situation, but it will be through reframing my idea of her as a threat and NOT by treating the threat.
As I've been slowly pointing out, I think psychopaths / sociopaths have a more acute perception of social threat because of their muted emotional life (in **-*'s words: "sometimes I get confused.") Viewed in this way, so much of the psychopathic mode makes perfect sense.
Hey alice,
ReplyDeleteYour work sounds so exciting, I feel a thrill just reading your description of it.
ell you asked how this feels to me and this is a very interesting question. actually I don't really understand why so many people are always asking how you feel in ordinary situations (I met a therapist once and she always asked stuff like that).... I mean what should I feel? to me, these ordinary situations are just what they are and I don't really feel something about that.
This is another example of the contrast I like to hear about. It shows me things are not set, our perceptions may force a reality upon us in a so compelling a way... others are not experiencing such things at all. It's difficult for me to describe the liberation this entails for me; like all experience is plastic and mouldable and we can create the lives we most want. I feel pure possibility in this disjunct between our modes.
do you really could describe/ do you really have (strong) feelings in such situations?
It's a thrill to create with other people. I was thrilled reading your description of this. This is my mind at peace and operating to it's potential to produce something useful. It's a feeling of wholeness and richness and accomplishment, acceptance, connection. It's all colour and expansion in my mind. It tells me I want to stay in my current job because I have the freedom to engage in such activities as I choose; I have access to wonderful collaborators and opportunities to explore. All of this feels great to me.
hey north, what do you mean with "we can create the lives we most want"? do you mean it like you said or is it more like a metaphor (because then I didn't get it haha). it's so fascinating that you have so many feelings of thrill and richness and wholeness etc...and that you feel a thrill just by reading my (not very elaborated, abstract) descriptions when I don't, even if I experience it by myself.
Deletehey mr hyde, "I dislike it when therapists ask, How did that make you feel? Heads up: Are you listening? Cause I just told you, by describing the circumstances, the act, in detail." I think it's more like they are asking because they are expecting you to have some feelings in these situations, not because they didn't listen. but well, I have no idea what they want to achieve with this...
alice
"I think it's more like they are asking because they are expecting you to have some feelings in these situations, not because they didn't listen. but well, I have no idea what they want to achieve with this..."
DeleteMany have no idea, having abstracted primordial perceptions and feelings into ethereal/philosophical/mystical realms.
"expecting you to have some feelings in these situations"
1. Some people are benumbed. Can't speak about it.
2. If these cerebral therapists listened more to their patients with their bodies, they would feel, via their senses, what the patient felt/feels. Trauma creates a visceral response, in the victim and in the therapist who listens with their body. The body, like the nose, knows and does not forget.
I've borne witness to the traumas of many people. And I've come to conclude that all any good listener has to do is open their pores, absorb body language, voice tone and volume, etc., etc. There are so many cues.
Pressured speech, for example, shows a 'charge' exists regarding that topic or issue.
I'm saying that some therapists are sensually tone deaf, and that's a problem. You can't solve an existential problem without utilizing primal instincts. The corporeal body.
Mr. Hyde
Hey North,
ReplyDeleteHope you're enjoying spook night.
"(I met a therapist once and she always asked stuff like that).... I mean what should I feel? to me, these ordinary situations are just what they are and I don't really feel something about that.
This is another example of the contrast I like to hear about. It shows me things are not set, our perceptions may force a reality upon us in a so compelling a way... others are not experiencing such things at all."
I dislike it when therapists ask, How did that make you feel? Heads up: Are you listening? Cause I just told you, by describing the circumstances, the act, in detail.
Our perception, however, does create its own magnetic field of honing influence -- usually it's a distortion based on the weakest, most vulnerable and invisible parts of our wounded ego. And you're right, liberation comes from adaptation of one's personal narrative to reality.
Mr. Hyde
"Our perception, however, does create its own magnetic field of honing influence -- usually it's a distortion based on the weakest, most vulnerable and invisible parts of our wounded ego."
DeleteThankyou, Mr Hyde, that is most illuminating and I shall ponder it further. Those most hidden parts of my nature are being drawn currently, their wild voices clamouring then falling silent.
They say illumination comes by brining the hidden things to light: I think we see then the monsters in ourselves and in others... and the monsters are just frightened children.
It's nice to talk to you.
"They say illumination comes by brining the hidden things to light: I think we see then the monsters in ourselves and in others... and the monsters are just frightened children."
DeleteHa! So true. Every living thing with a brain is aware of and frightened of something. Incarnate sentient flesh always quivers while tonguing its own weak spots.
It's nice to talk to you.
Ditto. I enjoy reading your thoughtful posts.
Mr. Hyde
My own journey has involved head-to-head clashes with my wounded ego; facing my inner monsters has been delightfully humbling, liberating and thus empowering: I am the good, bad and the ugly rolled into one. Laughing at myself, at my own narcissistic-paranoid quirks and quarks, pain and joy, fuels my will to be what I choose, when I choose. I like to remind myself that I'm forging my own perspective reality, minute by minute, always striving to step outside of my own bombastic opinions, ideas, etc. Cultivating a meta-viewpoint, a detached observer of my own processes as they unfold in real-time is often highly amusing.
I am awe-struck by the absurdity, enlightened and debased passion, of the human condition.
" Every living thing with a brain is aware of and frightened of something"
DeleteAlan Watts (and others) talk about the conscious mind as a radar, a trouble-spotter. Excellent for keeping us alive; not the best thing to identify with, though!
Thus the advantage of "cultivating a meta-viewpoint" - wonderfully worded, Mr Hyde. *curtsie of appreciation*
Do y'all think therapy could help callousness and remorselessness? By that I mean actually help the person visiting, not help the person pretend on account of those around them.
DeleteHey Tii,
DeleteWhat goes on behind callousness or remorselessness? What's the experience for you?
What benefits do you envisage when you say help? What are the current pain points?
North,
DeleteNot sure what goes on behind the callousness and remorselessness, I never really thought about it, it's pretty much always been there. What exactly do you mean by what is the experience like? Sorta like I can't be bothered enough to budge (if that's what you mean)
Benefits would be like, would therapy actually get rid of it? Not sure what you mean by pain points...
Hey T & N,
DeleteA callous forms to protect the skin from repetitive trauma/exposure. A callous is hard and blunts the feel of touch. A possible counterpoint to callousness could be physical, touch.
Maybe start with a massage. Something to soften the armour. ;-)
Mr. Hyde
Yah... I know a happy ending place, been meaning to go but... I feel like she's gonna make me pay next time.
DeleteAh Tii :p
DeleteI was asking those questions really to understand more about why you asked your question. I have some thoughts but it's better to understand more before I go spouting off an essay.
Mr Hyde, your tenderness is lovely. **-* let me massage him once.
He's such a strange and tender creature.
DeleteSome of his remorselessness is to avoid blame, I think. He must dig his heels in. Even a solution focus implies (I think, at least in his mind) some culpability. And since culpability puts him in a weak position, he simply cannot choose anything other than stubbornness.
The question is how to help him feel safe.
You know, as I child I wanted to be a detective. He's the biggest mystery I could have hoped for. Strangest of creatures!
DeleteTii:
Delete"Do y'all think therapy could help callousness and remorselessness? By that I mean actually help the person visiting, not help the person pretend on account of those around them."
Therapy makes one very self-aware about it. Then one can explicitly choose to mitigate in each context; or not.
Successful therapy gives people choices they did not have before.
North,
DeleteMy parents think I'm mentally sick and that's the reason why I have no guilt and show little emotions or attachment. It's ausing more friction and my dad is trying to get me to see a shrink in order to "cure" it. I personally don't think it'd cure anything.
K,
So it'd pretty much help me know how and when to fake it... I can do that myself. Point is, I'm not trynna fake anything.
Tii,
DeleteNot what I meant. Eg: You can either be callous or sympathetic to someone's misfortunes. You can choose to offer genuine sympathy if it's rationally deserved eg. typhoon victims. You have your specific style of attachment. It's a genuine one. Faking another style is ultimately very damaging to yourself, and somewhat pointless long-term. If people don't get what they require from you, that's their problem. As long as you are cheerful, pleasant and polite, and not malevolent or devious, that is more than adequate 'to make friends and influence people' in the real world. Your Dad is unrealistic in his expectations. Move away. There are many places for a small house and vegetable garden. LOL. Your dad will get used to your strengths, eventually.
Hi Tii,
Delete"I personally don't think it'd cure anything."
K@ is right in saying self awareness opens up options; this is the case for everyone.
Learning to recognise what you want / need is really useful, as is learning how your behavioural patterns impact on your achievement of those things. In other words, our behavioural patterns are often self-defeating but they can often be improved. The human brain is quite plastic and it is as they eastern mystics say: enlightenment comes by bringing the dark (or hidden) things within in us to the light. We learn and change very quickly when that happens - maybe not our foundational patterns but certainly we do better at distinguishing between opportunity and threat.
K, North
DeleteYah, I get what you mean but, in my situation I don't think it could do much except tell me how to make them happier (which I already know but, that's a lot of pretending and a hassle) which is wasting my time. They're getting pissed that I don't express enough excitement or happiness when they do something for me or give me something (I usually just give a cheerful thank you for a second), that I'm not cuddly, or say I love you enough, and that I never seem to worry or feel guilty. I'm hearing about it everyday and honestly I'm getting hella tired of the nagging. Like K mentioned, I've been planning on moving out soon, I figure less exposure would help them forget my "flaws", then I can just do my shit and they'll be satisfied when I succeed. They're always trying to guilt trip me too, which to me is like giving a dog a brick everytime he does something wrong... irrelevant.
We all need space to be who we are.
DeleteI prefer to move away from terms like "flaws", "strengths" and "weaknesses"... certainly it's tough if your parents are using that sort of polarising language. Good is always contextual.
Personally, I feel **-* is hyper-sensitive to blame; he avoids it at all costs, even when I'm not blaming him. I'm hypersensitive to other stuff. It's easier to suspend blanket judgement on these patterns and instead look at how to be more effective for particular purposes. Seeing other ways of operating can open our eyes to opportunities for ourselves, too, I.e. Perceiving contrast is another way to cultivate self awareness. I guess I recommend keeping a genuinely open mind to possibilities not just for acting but for refinement. We can always learn.
Tii,
Delete"They're getting pissed that I don't express enough excitement or happiness when they do something for me or give me something ..... that I'm not cuddly, or say I love you enough, and that I never seem to worry or feel guilty."
Yep; definitely time to move out. Sounds like a clear case of: "You're just not what we expected, or hoped for, son.." to which the only answer should be: "Tough shit. I'm gone. Bye, y'all."
Hey tii. I'm wondering what you mean in your above post by visiting person. Are you referring to yourself?
DeleteI mean me or anyone who would go to a shrink for that purpose
DeleteThis is all you need to consider when deciding who to vote for:
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/cowdogs666/status/791373360621981698
Laws 5, 6, 17, 28, 32, and 37 all in one photo.
Whatever helps you convince yourself that you're in control, I guess.
ReplyDeleteLol!
DeleteMr. Hyde
Can someone tell me why my vagina produces much wetness. What's the law on that?
ReplyDeleteI think North should hold wine glasses while her boyfriend naws and jaws on her cunt. Now there's a fucken ideA. You are not allowed to drop them. Hold them high in the air till you cum haRd.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=1092705539
ReplyDeleteManipulation is a sign of weakness. If you're really a powerful man you won't resort to being sneaky and underhanded. That's weasel shit. Benito Mussolini gained power through living dangerously, not manipulation. My aunt took in this bum off the street and he uses manipulation non stop, fake smiling to increase trust, flattery, the whole mr nice guy act. She fell for it because she's as dumb as a brick but I see right through the bum. He avoids me cause I see what a scared beta low life he is. I dont need to smile shake hands or kiss babies I grab people by the scruff of the neck and overpower them into my superior vision.
ReplyDelete*duce
DeleteMy point is alpha males don't hide their emotions, they're up front snd blunt. Hiding your emotions and opinions is sneaky and feminine. I'm the loudest guy in the room and anyone who has a problem with that will get slapped
DeleteYou can join your pal
DeleteI'm curious.
DeleteWould you define still living with your aunt as "manly success"? That homeless piece of shit still got more success with your aunt than you, therefore, he was more "powerful". Excellent job there, alpha! You even overpowered the bum with your... Oh, that's right, you didn't. You failed, and the bum is still living with you. Oh my god, the mighty Il Douche lives with a bum? Lame!
Oh, and you should change your name. From now on, you shall be known as Adam Il Douche.
I'm the white blood cells of my house, the immunity. If it weren't for me, my aunt would have occupy wall street banging up in her toilet. She and the bum suit each other cause she's a degenerate too. I'll get him out one way or the other. If he was sane and accomplished I wouldn't mind him, but he smokes, talks about sex and opens my fridge. He's not remarkable in any way and I hate unremarkable people. If he was doing his crass behavior in some dingy pub, I wouldn't care, but hes doing it in my face. When you're in the presence of greatness, clean yourself up or be punished.
DeleteBlah blah blah...
DeleteCould've?
You just talk and talk, like a little pussy. You've done nothing to stop the hobo from invading of your house. And now he stinks up your house and eats your food. Oops, I meant your aunt's house and food.
I would've shot that hobo before I let him anywhere near my door. I mean, what real man lets a hobo stink up his his home and steal his food? Not me, ever, that's for certain. You failed.
A great white blood cell you are (not). If house AIDS infected your house, it would've died of starvation.
Fail. All hail the faIL Douche!
"I'm the loudest guy in the room and anyone who has a problem with that will get slapped"
DeleteThere's a difference between being alpha and being an asshole.
Hey Damaged-
Delete"There's a difference between being alpha and being an asshole."
Absolutely.:)
I'm listening to Switchfoot's "Meant To Live".:)
I'm loving that song right now, and its AWESOME LYRICS!!!
I just wanted to share that with you...
~Vegas
I heard this quote the other day:
Delete"Sometimes broken roads lead to the best destinations."
I love that.:)
~Vegas
This is another quote I heard the other day, that I love:
Delete"There is a revolution that lives inside all of us, that leads us to where we belong."
~Vegas
The above quote sounded beautiful when I heard it, and even more so, when I just shared it.:)
Delete~Vegas
Death Scenes. A good flick if you have a morbid side. If you're mentally unstable id give this a miss /cough socioempath \cough
DeleteI don't get it Adam. It's just an hour and a half video of death and people dying, it gets boring after less than 5 minutes. What's do you find so interesting about that flick?
DeleteYou don't watch gore videos all days, pretending they make you tough or something, to compensate for not having any balls, now do you Adam?
Ben Building: Mussolini, Monuments and Modernism.
ReplyDeletehttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d_O822pBg_w
Watch these before Ben Building.
DeleteJerry Building
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sTfbBvIEbfA
Joe Building
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sn_L3fcZXL8
I think my youngest sister might well be sociopathic. Of all the children, she alone handled our father. Playing netball as a child, she would walk to the side of the court, clamp her hand on his mouth and yell "shut up Dad!" The rest of us cowered inside.
ReplyDeleteI don't know her well enough - there's no bonding between us. But there are plenty of little indicators.
I learned the other day at my college about freud. The id, superego and ego. It was a profound moment in my life because I realized I only act on the id. I have absolutely no superego or "reality principal". All I want to do is eat sleep and have sex with hot women there's not much more to me other than primal needs. Does that make me better than you? Yes it does
ReplyDeleteAdam. That depends.
DeleteDo you want to be an isolated neuron that only takes care of himself? Or do you want to cooperate to be part of a better brain? Both are valid. 3rd world vs 1st world type of thing...
Or maybe you want to be a cancer cell.Assuming you influence enough people around to behave like you. Cancer cells are very powerful.
There are ONLY 3 laws of power:
ReplyDeleteLaw of power #1
- Power is an illusion
Law of power #2
- If you think you are in control, you are delusional. You are NOT in control
Law of power #3
- Any time you think you have power or are in control, re-read the 3 laws of power
these are the 3 laws of being a crybaby
DeleteOh yeah, that's real truth, right there! Let's ignore, for a moment, Damaged's (true and spot-on) assertion that those are the 3 laws of being a crybaby.
DeleteIf power's an illusion, and it's not real, then why bother gaining any power at all, right?
I mean, if power's not real, then why make friends and acquaintances at all, since the power you gained by making connections is an illusion, and consequently, would not have any real-life effect at all?
Why gain financial power, since it too is an illusion, being a form of power, which means money's not real, and anything you paid for is not real?
Yeah... If that's the case, then I guess I prefer the illusion. Things like cars, a house, hobbies, privileges, all gained by gaining and using various forms of power, must all be fake then.
Oh, and since power is an illusion, perhaps you can break into the White House without consequences, since any power the president has is an illusion, therefore not real?
Maybe you can go on a killing spree, since the enormous power the government might have is an illusion, therefore they'd be powerless to stop you, and you'll get of scot-free?
I eagerly await the results. Don't let us down! And remember, when you're being gunned down, imprisoned, prison-raped, and on death row, just keep this in mind: power is an illusion, the government does not have any power or control over you. The government must be deluded to think they can control your life and kill you. Oh, and that also means you don't have to pay any taxes. Right. It's all fake.
Say, would you mind sending me all your money? Financial power is an illusion, after all, and it's not real. You obviously do not have a need for money, what with money being a form of power, and thus, by your own admission, an illusion, therefore it's not real. We would then be equally financially powerful, as in, you and I would both be financially powerless, as power is an illusion. Right? Right?
Why do you believe power, in its entirety, to be a delusion?
Delete@Anonymous
DeleteI'm hearing good things about a book called "Gorilla Mindset". It sounds like a book for you.
Shhhh! Come on now, don't be so rude. You might... offend the poor anon! :(
DeleteSome people need to be offended.
DeleteBut... But...
DeleteWhat about their feewings?
:(
That's the point. They need to realize that no one cares about their feelings and they'll eventually be hurt.
DeleteDamaged & Socioempath-
DeleteYour comments are cracking me up.:)
~Vegas
But... But...
DeleteWhat about their mommy and daddy? Their mommy and daddy care about their fellings. You'll be hurting their mommy and daddy too!
Feelings matter! Down with the offending! Commenters don't let commenters get offended and stuff!
Oh, hi Vegas.
Hey Socioempath-
DeleteYou're making me laugh.:)
~Vegas
Hey Vegas-
DeleteI'm glad I'm making you laugh.:)
~Socioempath
Hey Socioempath-
DeleteMe, too.:)
~Vegas
Socioempath & Damaged-
DeleteI didn't mean to interrupt you guys...
~Vegas
Hey Vegas-
DeleteAnd me, too.:)
~Socioempath
Socioempath-
DeleteYou're funny.:)
~Vegas
Vegas-
DeleteOh yeah, can I put the question mark before the smiley too, or are just dots allowed?:)
~Socioempath
hey guys, I think this anon didn't think of this kind of power (like the government etc). I guess he rather thought of some kind of general power ... for instance you can't control if you are getting ill or developing cancer etc.... there are just to many variables in life you can't control or predict and to think you have the power to do so, would be an illusion.
Deletealice
Hey Socioempath-
DeleteYou can put a ? before :)
:)
~Vegas
@alice
DeleteWell, power itself isn't an illusion. But you can control how much you can possess, and thinking you cannot have a degree of control over it is an illusion.
By not smoking, for example, you drastically reduce the risk of getting lung cancer. You control the chance of getting cancer. Doesn't mean you won't get it, but you can control it. And if you get it, you can still control it, as in, getting chemotherapy.
Again, doesn't mean it will work. But the difference is obvious - by not trying to control the chance, in this case your physical health, you can predict that you are more likely to get cancer. Also, by extension, by letting yourself go and not taking care of yourself, such as by getting morbidly obese and not looking after your hygiene, you can predict that your health, and your life expectancy, will in all likelyhood decrease. To think otherwise would be an illusion.
But the article is pertaining to the 48 Laws of Power, which is about that kind of power, so in all probability, this anon did indeed think of this kind of power. That's the theme of this blog post, and if the anon meant otherwise, the anon should have specified that the comment pertains to "general power", as you put it.
Hey Vegas-
DeleteSweet!:)
...
Oh no! I put an exclamation mark! Oops!*sad smiley*
~Socioempath
I think I envy people who have the ability to give a fuck.
DeleteSocioempath-
DeleteYou can put an ! before the :), too.
:)
~Vegas
Socioempath-
DeletePS-You are hilarious!!!
:)
~Vegas
Anon @ 6:48-
DeleteWhy???
~Vegas
Here's an example, of why "giving a fuck" sucks:
DeleteI watched the 1st season of "Spartacus", and thought the guy who played Spartacus was WAY HOT!!!
His name in real life, was Andy Whitfield.
He was diagnosed with cancer, and subsequently, died.:(
They continued the series for several more seasons, but it was never the same.:(
No one could "replace" Andy, for me.:(
~Vegas
PS-
DeleteMan, he was SO HOT!!!
Struck down in his prime-what a loss.:(
If you didn't watch that series, I highly recommend, watching the 1st season.:)
Andy, in "all his glory".:)
~Vegas
I just looked it up:
DeleteAndy Whitfield had non-Hodgkin lymphoma...
~Vegas
He died 18 months, after his diagnosis...
Delete~Vegas
hey socioempath, well... yeah being a non smoker will reduce your likelyhood to develop cancer... but this still don't give you any control... this was only one exampe... think about some other illness, genetic ones or parkinsson or alzheimers disease... you can't really prevent them. you actually can't even fight them because we know almost nothing about these diseases... it's like you are driving on a big highway and you can't change the direction. only sometimes you are able to change the lane which gives you a sense of power, which is actually irrelevant and hence an illusion. and come on this part about hygene is ridiculous... but just for your information: how do you know that keeping a good hygene is increasing your life expectancy? probably because of some "scientific insights", but you know, this could be wrong conclusions. the past is full of wrong believes and conclusions (I think of the scientific ones) and who knows which things we believe and think we know now are true and which are not? (and I think understandinv is the essential of having power, but we don't even understand enough of this word so how could we have power?)
Deleteahhh... I didn't watch the video so probably you are right and this anon thought of the kind of power you wrote about... however I don't care
alice
Well, I concur, you do have a point.
DeleteHowever, I still think that not attempting to control it is bad. If you've got a genetic disease, let's say Chron's disease, not leading a healthy lifestyle, in this example by changing your diet to a more healthy one, will lead to a faster demise.
So yeah, while there might be certain uncontrollable situations (which might get controllable in the future), I think they can be controlled to a degree, and thus, you can at least control the "direction".
You have valid points though. Let's agree to disagree then. :)
hey socioempath, well I never said you shouldn't try to gain as much control as possible... I think everyone is doing this... it's human I guess... actually also animals do this... so well I understand your thoughts. haha yes I agree to disagree then haha :)
Deletealice
Yeah :)
Delete...
Well, I'm bored, so I got a great example! It's not based on anything, the numbers are randomly pulled from my head. Hope you enjoy!
Let's say that, by smoking you have a 90% chance to get cancer.
By not smoking you reduce that chance to... 25%.
I'd say you got control over getting cancer to a degree.
Now, if by exercising and dieting you reduce that chance further to, let's say 5%, well, I'd say you got great control over it.
Anyway, I enjoyed the conversation. Take care. :)
hey, yes it's a good example! well you say this is giving you control over it, I say it's only a sense of control. what if exercising and dieting the way it reduces the likelyhood to get cancer, increases the likelyhood to develop other diseases? maybe nobody made the connection so far and in the future the people are laughing, that our generation was so stupid.
Deletewell, take care, too :) ...and I would advise you to not smoke haha :P
alice
Hehehehehe, maybe. But oh well, 5% is better than 90%. Laughing is healthy, so you're not only making yourself healthy, you're making future generations healthy! :D
DeleteI'm still not gonna stop smoking though. :)
Chemo will fuck you up... and then kill you miserably.
DeleteBud's wiser <--my type of drink.
Fun fact: somehow tonight I can hear my eyelids smack moistly when I blink
Hey Socioempath & Tii-
DeleteYou guys crack me up!!!
Tii-
"Bud's wiser <--my type of drink."
I like that.:)
"Fun fact: somehow tonight I can hear my eyelids smack moistly when I blink"
Did you just have some bud???
~Ve
Well, cancer will kill you anyway.
DeleteGetting chemo gives you more life. More life means more alcohol (and other stuff) since you already know you'll die anyway.
And you can't argue against more alcohol! :D
Hey Tii-
DeletePS-Will you give me a song, please???
~Ve
Socioempath,
DeleteI have three relatives that died in more pain then they were and significantly weaker than they were before chemo. They died just as soon as it was predicted they would without it... guess how much one session costs.
Ve,
I'll give you three songs.
Four Non Blondes- What's Up
Jefferson Airplanes- Go Ask Alice
Protoje- Protection
So, what you are saying, is that not only did chemo make it worse, but also that all that money that could've gone to drinking went to chemo, so you're better off with no chemo anyways?
DeleteBut what about those who chemo did help, and increased their life expectancy, and eradicated cancer for good?
What if the prediction was off, and they would've died before predicted?
I see your point, but data points based on three people are not enough to reach a conclusion.
Based on your data, you either live with chemo as long as without chemo, but there is a possibility you'll live longer.
hey tii, my parents and 2 friends had cancer and chemo and now they all overcame it... so it always depends... oh and I'm very sorry for the money issue you have in america... fortunately everyone has a health insurance in germany :P
Deletealice
Hey T-
Delete3 SONGS!!!
You are too generous.:)
I loved all 3!!! I was only familiar with the 1st song, so it was cool "getting new music"-thank you.:)
T & Socioempath-
I know that there are a lot of Socios & NT's working together to find the cure for cancer, and I know they will find it-the sooner the better, for all of us...
alice-
You live in Germany???
~Ve
hey ve, yes I'm living in germany (in munich... maybe you know it... oktoberfest etc).. so where are you living?
Deletealice
Hey alice-
DeleteThat's so cool, that you are living in Germany!!!
I live in the US.
I have traveled to Germany, but was unable to visit Munich specifically-hopefully someday!!!
I bet Oktoberfest is FUN!!!
I love the movie "Munich", too.:)
Eric Bana, Daniel Craig, Ayelet Zurer, Marie-Josee Croze-they are hot actors, and that was an awesome movie!!!
Have you seen it???
~Ve
Hey alice-
DeletePS-I loved being in Germany!!!
I have German lineage.:)
That's cool, about your healthcare!!!
~Ve
Hey alice-
DeletePPS-Angela Merkel seems cool-do you like her???
~Ve
hey ve, no didn't watch the movie yet. yeah I think she is pretty good and definitely incomparable with your two presidential candidates haha... oh and I'm so excited for the season final of america haha
Deletealice
Nice, I love Germany. I'm planning to move their and join my brother in Frankfurt at the end of this year. Free university here I come!
Deletehey tii, that's pretty cool :) so you will come here for your studies... what do you want to study? ...or is it just to escape trump... or hillary haha :P
Deletealice
Alice,
DeleteLol you think you're kidding, I've been telling people I wish Trump would become president just for to see how that would work out (come on everyone's a bit curious). They usually respond with something along the lines of "so you're willing to put your life in danger and watch the country go to shit for entertainment", to which I let them know that Hillary isn't much better and that anyways I'll be keeping in touch long distance. But yah its mostly for my studies, and for a chance to leave Florida, since I have family their and pick up a few scraps of German it shouldn't be to hard.
hey tii, I'm not kidding haha... honestly I also find it kind of amusing if trump will be president... I could safely watch america burn from a big distance (having a good health insurance and free university etc)... and it would be none of my business haha :) and it would be really interesting if trump could achieve his goals... like the wall between mexico and usa haha... but well... on the other side for germany, hillary would be the better choice. but since I'm politically not really interested I actually don't care...
Deleteyou shouldn't underestimate the german language haha but if you have german relatives I'm sure they can help you with this
alice
In no way am I understimating it... the german language has proven to be a real bitch so far but eh... practice makes almost perfect
DeleteOh Jesus...there socios go again...hurting someone is power.
ReplyDeleteHurting someone is not hard, its just immoral, not tgat immoral means anything to socios.
Power itself is an illusion. Control is an illusion. One cancer diagnosis, one wrong turn, one drunk driver, (here is an important one for socios) one court conviction for hurting someone, and all that power illusion is over.
Then that means that the power was transferred away from you.
DeleteIf you got cancer, the cancer used the natural abilities of cancer cells to take the power away from your natural reserves, body cells, and transferred it to itself, by turning those cells into cancer cells.
A drunk driver used its power of choice to choose to drive drunk, and that choice has a greater chance of causing and accident, with significant consequences.
If you are convicted, the state used its power and control to take the power away from you and control you, because you risked your power to try to gain more of it, but the risk led to the state convicting you.
What, somebody used and abused you, you called him a socio, and now you're on some holy crusade to teach all the socios some manners?
I don't give a shit you got hurt by a somebody who might be a socio. Tough shit, I'll still offend you, because you are glaringly wrong. Get a fuckin' grip, you annoying crybaby! You're an adult, for chrissake!
Never saw someone write so much and say so little. Calm down, lol. If you're so confident you have power, tell your associates you're a socio, remove the mask, come out, be a man.
DeleteYou'll never do it, ever, cause without it you are nothing, weak, insecure, insignificant, nonentity. A fake. And this fakeness you somehow twist in your head as some delusion of power. Its laughable
Oh, you answered so soon? Looks like I hit a nerve. Oh goody! And I think I see a projection! It's funtime! :D
DeleteYou have allowed yourself to get used and abused, because you were weak and made stupid decisions which led to you getting used and abused. It wouldn't have happened if you were strong and had some common sense. The warning signs were there, you ignored them, because you were blinded by your ego, and now it's not your fault.
You deserved it for being a weak idiot.
I think you might be suffering from NPD.
P. S.
Yes, I told somebody I am what I am, and nothing happened. I'd say, my power increased after that act. So, you see, you were yet again wrong. What now?
Awww, come on.
DeleteDon't run away. :(
Please come back. I promise, I'll bite even harder!
:)
I just love messing with socios, so fragile when unmasked. Dont even have to feel bad about it, how could you for someone with an emotional range of a reptile.
DeleteGo hide behind the mask big boy, cause your insecure azz wouldn't last in the real world 5 min without it.
Oh, you came back?
DeleteAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA what an idiot!
I'm sorry, what? Messin' with socios? Oh, I get it now. You were messin' with me. Lol, what? That was the lamest "messin'" I've ever witnessed. You couldn't mess with an incontinent senile old lady, she'd take you for all you've got. That was pathetic.
Awwwww, did I hurt your feeeeewings? What, you're gonna cry now? :'(
Bitch puh-lease! I'm so secure Fort Knox asked me to use my body to store gold! You've got more holes than swiss cheese!
I eagerly await your next messin' (LOL).
What do you call a mask anon? I wouldn't say socios hide behind a mask. It merely looks like a mask to you because you do not comprehend the thought process and so it appears to unpredictable to be the truth. It is in their nature, it is who they are. Half the time the pretense is to entertain empaths or to keep from offending or hurting them. The other half is to gain the upper hand. Calling out socios for the latter would be hypocritical, everyone does it. How come you talk to your people you have to deal with, to superiors or teachers, and sometimes even parents politely and properly to their face, then mutter curses under your breath? Isn't that a mask you use for you advantage? Why do you smile at those you hate, then talk shit when they turn around? I'd say socio's are even more genuine, the lack of emotions erases the need to completely lie about how we feel towards others, instead we bend it so they hear and see what they want.
Deletes-empath, that was funny, more secure than Fort Knox, whatever floats your boat. One thing a sociopath is not is secure, even those few who are considered high functioning have thin skin and can be baited with ease once exposed. But who gives a damn, you're really boring me.
DeleteTii, interesting that socios view yourselves as genuine when your whole existence is based on being pathological liars. So pardon me if I dont believe for a sec that anything about a socio is genuine. Nor do I want to dicuss that cause we'll go in circles citing examples, waste of time. But I would not mind exploring one aspect of socios a bit.
I'm talking about the "fearless" part, understanding that aspect directly from a socio. To start I'll let you know I was in one of the services and have seen combat. When going down an alley or crossing an exposed hot area there was definite fear there, but I remember supressing it, controlling it. It was in a background like a companion, but it did not affect my actions. And I'm not talking about actual fighting where adrenaline and actions completely trump fear.
As honestly as you can, with nothing to gain or lose by answering, do socios have fear? Or do you have it and it does not affect you (similar to not being affected by empathy)? Or do they have it but can surpress it at will like myself? I'd love to hear an expanded (if possible honest) answer from the horses mouth.
Anon, you want to say that sociopaths have certain triggers that can be used to get them to react emotionally?
DeleteYeah, I'm aware of that. But anyway, I have to thank you still for that bait. It found it fun writing.
Take care :)
s-empath, lets forget the games for a second, no power plays, no baits, no upper hands, intimidation, fake friendliness, pitch one person against the other, start with a new complete blank slate.
DeleteNothing to gain or to lose. And a part of why Jamie created this website.
I dont see the world as you see it, as you dont see the world as I see it. You think my empathy is a waste cause the world is out to get you so you get it first, I think by a lack of empathy you are missing what is most human about humanity. Big deal...opinions.
I'm just curious to understand the "fearlessness" part from your point of view. As stated bfeore, in my case its not an absence of fear, just management of it (before any action is taken).
Just curious to know what happens in your cases. Is it there? Is it processed differntly? Is it just managed differently? This should be a good topic for this website anyway.
Okay. I guess it's fair enough. I can understand the desire to learn. And I guess I'm bored.
DeleteI'll try to keep it as honest as possible. :)
Personally, I don't see empathy as a waste in general. Yes, to me, being "empathyless" is preferable.
However, I acknowledge that the world needs empathy. And that the proportion of no-empathy individuals to "neurotypicals" is just about right.
If everybody were to be as selfish as me, well... I won't go into too much details here, as I'm sure you can pretty much imagine what would that entail, but I can assure you that I prefer the ratio as it is.
I also understand that "neurotypicals" have a real need for human connection, otherwise their mental health deteoriates. I won't pretend to understand why this is so, but it's just as it is. I have no problem being a friend and all that, but, I don't have a need for anybody, I'm perfectly content to be left alone.
I don't think I am missing out on anything. On the contrary, if I were to be offered a choice to have all the emotions (prosocial ones), I would not hesitate to reject it. I would even savagely fight the attempt to turn me "normal". I see it as an advantage, but I don't take advantage unless there's no other way, as it would be a waste of my time and it would create unneccessary enemies (I don't count "tiny" manipulations that everybody does as taking advantage). If we can both profit, then great, as long as I profit, I don't care if you do. If my profit would absolutely require that you profit more than me, then I'm perfectly happy to let you take the larger profit, as I still profited, which is better than no profit.
As for fear... Well, I have noticed there is "something", maybe anxiety (I'm not sure), before the action begins, but only if the situation is unknown to me; once it is experienced to an extent, or in other words expected, there's no such sensation I've noticed. Once the action starts however, there is a eery calm, a certain sense of purpose perhaps, no fear - I find it an intensely enjoyable experience. I don't "manage" it, per se, it just is, it's all automatic.
Anon,
DeleteTouché, I guess. Yah, I do lie often but, that's mostly if I'm trying to gain something from someone I absolutely give no shits about, or if I'm trying to save my ass from a situation. I don't generally go around lying about everything for no reason, and I don't usually lie about how I feel about people, I do present the reaction I think they are hoping for or expecting in certain situations however.
As for fear I can't say I'm sure. I've never been put in any situation as extreme as war, so I wouldn't know. In my daily life I can't say I have any phobias. In situations where people usually want to back away I usually feel a certain thrill along with an uncertainty that it's the right choice (I wouldn't call it anxiety). After that it's more of a matter of is it worth it and what are the odds that I will return alright. Then again like I've said I haven't really been put in any crazy situations, just a few where my peers have wanted to back up from and I've on the other hand felt some sort of attraction towards.
Till, socioempath,
DeleteGuys (or gals), I appreciate your feedback. Sounds like fear in certain situations is read by a socio brain as focus. Interesting. Evolution or devolution (depending which point you're looking it from) is amazing.
See you guys around.
If I write again, I'll sign my comments as -TB
Q to anyone who cares to answer, regarding the law which says that you should never trust your friends.
ReplyDeleteDo you think that's true that we shouldn't trust anyone?
I can't live like that. So I guess I'm just screwed.
As well, whilst many of the laws are common sense, it seems to me that if I lived my social life as Greene recommends, my whole life would be nothing more than a calculated transaction. Not my cuppa tea.
The tender Mr. Hyde
hey mr. hyde, I didn't watch the video, but well, I think it's a risk to trust anyone, especially your friends. because if you are close to someone and you fully trust him, you are much more vulnerable. so if you friend betrays you (or harm or disappoint you in another way) I guess you are not prepared to this. so it hits you much harder as if a stranger or someone you don't like do this because you kind of expect them to betray you. anyway I don't want to say not to trust your friends, I just want to say it's a risk (but no risk, no fun haha)... I do trust my friends (to a certain degree... for instance I would never entrust my life to them if there is another way) but I always have in mind that they may betray or disappoint me and I'm prepared to that...
Deletealice
As Alice says, I do trust my friends to a certain degree. Very often they "come through" when I'm in a bind. They're fun to hang out with but I don't expect much from them (even though many have prove they'll go far for me), while I do expect the worst of them. I think it's a way to keep my guards up.
DeleteAlice + T,
ReplyDeleteIt's true -- being betrayed by a friend is the worst. I can think of three betrayals that nearly did me in. But, my default is to trust, so it's taken a lot of effort to at least pause and probe a little before handing over the keys to my car. :-D
These days I tend to trust my instincts more than my thinking or heart, because I have this awful habit of of making excuses for bad behaviour, I.e. they had a bad childhood, or whatever.
I do have a couple friends who I'd trust with my life.
Mr. Hyde
hey mr. hyde, seems like you are a really genuine person. well I think my default is to rather mistrust than trust someone, but I don't know if this is because of who I am or because of bad experiences... anyway I don't care and don't want do change anything... I think to trust you friends is much easier and less effort because if they are good friends the likelyhood they'll betray you is quite small (mistrusting can be really exhausting I guess)... so you trust your instincts more than you rational thoughts?
Deletealice
Hey Alice (I love that name!)
DeleteMy instincts work in tandem with mental stuff. I think of my body as a kind of antenna -- I get physical sensations listening to people talk, watching them. Those sensations immediately spark images and/or intuitions that prompt insights into what's going on emotionally/psychologically in the mind of the speaker. I'm not saying I'm psychic, but rather highly intuitive and sensual. The problem for me is that I've often ignored those signals, for various emo reasons. One is that it seems to me that most people are suffering on some level, and then I filter everything through that perception. If there's one thing in this world I despise it's suffering. I want to abolish it, and sometimes that makes me act rash and stupid.
I'm getting better, though, working hard on becoming more detached. I'm enjoying cultivating a bit more ice in my veins. ;)
I trust my friends with the knowledge of their limitations fully in mind; I wouldn't dream of asking for certain things from some of them, things that I know would be difficult, if not impossible for them to give.
My best friend is emotionally very shallow, loathes any sort of drama, is snarky and pragmatic toward people who cry, often very cold to those in need, the homeless, etc. Yet, she has always been there for me in times of crisis, though not on an emotional level, which actually I very much appreciate. We've been friends for over 40 years.
One thing socioempath said earlier got me thinking again about the NT/socio ratio in the population: I read an article (I'll try to find it) that quoted that there are 70 million socios worldwide.
Which begs a very blunt question: How do you build cooperative bridges between a predator and its prey?? Cause I sure don't believe that genocide or brain implants are viable solutions. I'm a bridge builder.
I also think that socio-traits have already been thoroughly embraced by Western countries and glorified in the media, via corporatized capitalist culture. Needless to say, the result of "greed is good, me-first-and-always" so far is constant war, toxic products, climate change and the 6th mass extinction of life on earth.
So, I guess I'm finagling another question here . . . how do we, NTs and socios and every other neural type, proceed? You see, I don't mind not being #1, being rich or powerful and I don't care if you are, if you want that role. (I like being invisible.) I also don't care that socios don't feel emotions like I do -- it would be a horrible world if everyone thought and felt the same. All I care about is that other living creatures aren't being exploited to death for profit, etc.
Anyway, I'm not being very articulate (no sleep for days) so I'd better quit for now.
Mr. Hyde
Socios don't all see NTs as preys, if they did they would be a lot more visible. I believe most socios try to fit in first (there's a negative connotation that come with the word), and I pretty sure the bigger majority haven't realized they are. Sure they often appear cold and calculating but, its not always to ruin others life, merely to get further ahead. In some cases there are some people hurt in the process. I for one know I don't really want to go out of my way to hurt people, most of the time it happens is because I can't help but flirt with others or try to make them fall for me (it's my nature). Obviously if you're a NT or more sensitive it hurts when you find out the feeling isn't reciprocated, especially if it's been a while or you were friends before. Can you really call me evil, or people I flirt with prey? Btw I usually let them know I'm not big on relationships, have no intentions of going out, and I'm not a falling in love type guy, somehow that just fuels the fire. It's like everyone wants to and think they'll be the one to break the cycle.
DeleteSure their are some with bad intentions but, that's for every type of person. That bridge I believe would be educating others on the socios mind and first removing the negative connotation that comes with it. I remember as a kid I told this girl I had an antisocial personality, by that I just meant I'm not big on going out and socializing, I didn't know the term referred to ASPD nor did I think I was one. She quickly got scared of me and told our mutual friends she was kind of afraid of being alone with me... I suppose my cold personality help with it but you see what I mean.
Forgive the grammar...
DeleteThe kind of hurt you're describing -- flirting and not be able to commit -- is, I think, rather normal. Certainly not evil by any stretch. You're right that people like to think they can be the one to break the cycle; that drive to save or change someone is actually pretty narcissistic, ask me. (I used to believe I could save others by the sheer power of my love -- talk about delusions!)
DeleteI don't worry about saving anyone anymore, except my kids, should they ever need saving. My primary focus has changed to saving the planet. haha. If only. ;)
I agree with you that education is vital; people always fear what they don't understand. It's not a crime to not feel things the way others do, and I do wish NTs would stop with the mob mentality, because it horrifies me, too. It's also true that NTs and/or empaths are often irrational, ruled by their feelings, which is dangerous. Emo folk can be just as cruel and greedy as a psychopath. They simply justify it differently, i.e., with god or making a profit or whatever.
I guess what disturbs me is that we as a culture have embraced what I see as a suicidal, rapacious value system that's killing the ecology on which we all depend. That pisses me off. I love life's diversity and thrive on it.
As for you being a lifelong flirt -- the world is more colorful with charmers in it. Even if you hurt people's feelings by saying things they don't want to hear, so what? Doesn't everyone feel hurt at one time or another? That kind of 'suffering' doesn't faze me much. As a counselor of 30 years, I've heard countless tales of woe: Sometimes it's stunning how little it takes for some folk to feel wronged. It would be funny if wasn't for the fact that they're in pain about it. Actually, sometimes even their pain seems absurd. Sad to say but true. Or maybe I've just witnessed so much pain over the years that I've grown more numb to it. Hard to say.
Mr. Hyde
hey mr. hyde and hey tii, very interesting posts you wrote. I really enyojed reading them.
Delete"All I care about is that other living creatures aren't being exploited to death for profit, etc. " I believe as long as humans exist, this exploitation will never stop... and people, who are not hit by this, will never be able to stop the exploitation of the other people. even if they do have a lot of empathy (for instance for their familiy and friends etc.), they usually don't have the same amount of empathy for strangers. this is a defense mechanism and entirely normal, so they are not destroyed by their feelings because life is cruel. I read this in a publication somewhere (maybe I'll find it again)...
alice
Alice,
DeleteI imagine that you are quite right about most humans always seeking to exploit others. Not everyone is built that way, however. Some people simply 'profit' from Being Alive, soaking up the beauty of life. I'm not focused on material gains, don't want much of anything really, except the freedom to dream, roam and think.
I think evolution presents a real possibility that we can change our attitudes and behaviors, if only we weren't so afraid of being wrong, of feeling stupid, of seeing our faults and being judged. After all, once upon a time we thought we could treat our pets or other animals any way we want. Now it's illegal to harm your pet, and in some states it's now illegal to spank your kids. We've come to recognize that animals suffer pain just as much as we do, that smacking kids to 'discipline' them can psychologically damage them. One South American country, Bolivia?, has even granted 'rights' to nature. These ideas were unthinkable not that long ago. So, I do have a shallow sense of hope, which I cling to with all my might. ;) Plus, there's a bit of a warrior in me when it comes to standing up for stuff I care about, so you can bet I'll be actively fighting to save as many species as I can until my dying breath.
Way I see it, the world is now so small and ecologically enmeshed and the environment so degraded that soon we'll either evolve or be faced with living in hell. We can't afford to continue to kill/exploit every organism for our own pleasure or gain. Our consumption of earth's resources is not sustainable and I would hope that socios agree that humans need to learn to restrain their greed, etc.
If animals can make friends outside their own species I don't see why socios and NTs can't also find a win-win way to co-exist. Because to my mind it doesn't matter at all that you don't experience emotions the way I do. I think it's stupid and illogical to demonize people just because they 'feel' or don't feel this way or that.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts everyone. I do appreciate your candidness.
Mr. Hyde
hey mr. hyde, I think you are right, society can change to a certain degree but I don't think exploitation will entirely stop (humans are too selfish)... anyway, I appreciate change and I also think we have to change our attitude towards the environment drastically. I also want to fight for this and I think the best way is to develope new techologies... so I'm not the kind of person who is helping homeless people or poor kids... honestly I don't care for these people and I think they are irrelevant to the whole thing. so I guess helping these people would not change anything. research on the other side, can have a big impact on everything and hence can promote change. I guess socios are in some fields kind of more suitable to promote change because they don't have this emotional restriction... for instance they wouldn't hesitate to make some sacrifice if this would help. like genetic engineering on human embryos..
Deletealice
"for instance they wouldn't hesitate to make some sacrifice if this would help. like genetic engineering on human embryos.. "
DeleteOK. Your embryos can go first.
;)
Mr. Hyde
yes sure, I don't have any problems with that :)
Deletealice
Well,there we go. We agree on something. The first bridge support has arisen. :-)
DeleteMr. Hyde